#j*pper
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yknow, jopper didn’t happen in s3—all that happened was joyce helped hop thru some emotional shit, and then it showed him pining after her, but not the other way around. she was still grieving bob and not showing any major attraction to hopper just yet.
however, i bet you a million dollars that as soon as u saw hop pining over joyce in melvald’s in s3 when she’s walking away and “she’s got you” is playing, u were 100% sure jopper was endgame.
so in s4, when byler didn’t happen, but will helped mike thru some emotional shit and then pined after him while mike was oblivious, it should be pretty clear to us that uh……….
(also, in s3, jopper decided that “we make a pretty good team.” and hop was trying to convince joyce that “hawkins can still be your home.” sound familiar? something something a team, friends/best friends, hawkins isn’t the same without you? like be serious)
#s4 was byler’s setup season like s3 was for j*pper#(censoring so it doesn’t show up in their lovely tag!)#byler#parallels#like be serious
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Mike and Will don’t tell anyone they’re a couple they just dance together at the J*pper wedding in the epilogue and let everyone else figure it out
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if the play is canon & aligns with events in the show, it really doesn’t make any sense why hopper/joyce/bob had no idea about the upside down and things that happened in s1 & s2. joyce wouldn’t have had to explain everything to bob like that if he had some idea of henry creel. and hopper wouldn’t have been so uninterested in will’s disappearance. they all would’ve known and had each other’s backs from the very beginning.
to squeeze in this sudden vague idea of understanding right before the end of the show (to possibly aid their plot holes in s5) is.. poor writing and i’m scared for the ‘wrap up’ of joyce’s character. i hope the duffers don’t do this but i have a feeling they will :/
#i'm not Mad about the play i just. don't... get it?#joyce would've been soo so so different and so would've hopper and bob. the 'this isn't a normal family' line wouldn't make sense bc bob#would know that!!! and hopper would care more ab will disappearing and joyce would've had more help in the beginning and-#it just doesn't make sense.#all three of them would be very different characters :|#and like. joyce is getting attention i should be excited but my issue isn't her not getting attention#bc she is. j*pper fans love her for her relationship and she's pretty popular as a character and etc etc. but i want her to get attention#for her individual character past being a mom and a care taker and . i just. screams#i hate u stranger things i hate u duffer brothers#stranger things#joyce byers#st#byler#<-- intended audience#i like to think u guys are my friends#🤎#joyce maldonado#<-- the only good thing to come out of this play fr
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the thing is i COULD like m*leven! the set up is there! i thought it was cute in s1 and s2! the reunion scene in s2 was SO poignant and palpable because you could feel how lonely they both were, how much they missed each other, how important they both were to each other. and then they spend the next two seasons throwing stupid, contrived relationship problems at them and instead of fixing them in a way that builds any confidence, they slap them with a band aid that doesn’t address any of the actual issues. s3 is an issue from the get go with their fight being based around a lie that hopper basically forced onto mike, but still doesn’t get around to resolving the wedge that it’s put between them and the rest of the party. and now s4 has mike afraid to say i love you, despite having all but said it already, and having to use their gay coded (but not explicitly gay, despite their insistence that it would be made clear) character to prop them up instead of allowing any happiness in his own love life. all while relegating mike to the background in both of these seasons and giving him so little plot outside of el.
m*leven’s potential is there, but they simply do not know how to get these characters to work together outside of a puppy crush stage. they could do so much more. they could have such a genuine bond. but it’s becoming more and more apparent that they don’t have anything in common besides codependency
#byler#i’m frustrated i really am#it’s feels more and more like they just don’t know how to write a good romance#quite frankly i’m not a huge fan of j*pper or j*ncy either#lumax is the only canon couple i genuinely enjoy#and when SO much of the plot is based around love#specifically romantic love#(when they could be putting a much bigger emphasis on platonic love but that’s another rant)#it’s very distracting to just be so off put by the romances they’re shoving at us#i think the reason byler appealed to me so much is bc they really weren’t trying to write a romance#they were trying to write a friendship and succeed with that way more than any of their ships#whatever!!!!!#idk!!!!!!!!!#st4 spoilers#s4 spoilers#stranger things spoilers
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I agree with what you said about b/lers viewing the Duffers as their friends and allys and therefore watch the view in a different lense and make it out to be this carefully thought out masterpiece that it simply isn't. Like they forget Stranger Things was supposed to be only one season, b/ler wasn't a thing. Yeah, they queercoded Will but not with the intention to have him pine over his best friend. Plus, like you said, Will is more of a plot point than a real character, esp in s1. In s2, he also wasn't much of a character he was again a plot point, and we never saw his real personality on screen. In s3, he was almost nonexistent, and that's sad, but I genuinely don't think the Duffers know how to write him. So his stans have to rely on the crumbs they are given and then delude themselves into thinking this is all part of a big love story bc that's easier to admit than the show being not that great and Will being a flat character.
Similar with Steve, we also only get crumbs and make the best out of but we can see the Duffers as our enemy because we have no problem to admit that they are shitty writers when it comes to characters. Like we never delude ourselves into thinking he is the main character and the Duffers know what to do with him and the lack of information is this big twist we will get paid off in the last season. I don't think he will die, narratively, it doesn't make sense, especially with Dustin involved (who is arguable one of their faves) so I'm thinking we get a shitty end for him (aka St/ncy). Like I still have hope for Stobin best friend shenanigans in the big city after s5, but it's only slim. I don't trust the Duffers that much, and like you said, b/lers whorshipping them is setting them up for failure if their "clues" turn out to be false.
For b/ler to happen, m/leven had to break up for sure in s4. Like Mike's monolog is a pivotal point in s4. And even if b/lers say he was lying, well that makes it everything worse, because El thinks he loves her. M/leven breakup has to be handled with care in order for b/ler to start.
I hate when ppl say st/ncy = m/leven and j/ncy = b/ler, and they view this as something great. Objectively speaking, the st/ncy breakup was so messy and unfair to Steve that I don't get why people want El to go through the same thing. Because the foundation of j/ncy was cheating and not them being a cute sweet couple, star-crossed lovers style. Every time people joke about the Wheelers not saying I love you to their respective partners bc they fancy someone else I want to puke because it's not a cute parallel and the other person in that relationship is lied to which is horrible. Plus, it already makes b/ler about 3 completely different characters that have nothing to do with it. There should not even be the want to compare relationships because everyone is different. And I need people to realize j/ncy getting together was done in such a disastrous way you don't want that for your couple.
Sidenote people who get mad at Steve stans for giving him trust and abandonment issues after Nancy are not getting the severity of what emotionally cheating does to a person. Steve wasn't aware of problems, Nancy told him she loved him a day prior, and then it all came crashing down. Plus him not committing to anyone because he is scarred from that experience is valid and it's an explanation for his behavior in s4. It doesn't make Nancy a bad person, but her actions hurt him, and he should be allowed to feel that way, especially if she was his first love. If El went through that with Mike, I also think she would develop trust issues (on top of her already abandonment issues).
Anyway, I think b/lers are in this secluded bubble, and if things don't go exactly their way, it will break them, and I'm actually scared. Like even in s4, I had witnessed complete meltdowns over b/ler, and I need everyone to chill bc we talk about two 14 year old kids. Especially when older people (mid twenties and up) are overly involved in shipping children, I get this weird feeling. There's nothing against ppl going into fan spaces, but it's weird obsessing over the love life of two children in such an intense cult-like way.
response under the cut again! <3
yeah, i honestly don't even know where this entire narrative about stranger things being a secret love story started, because the primary theme has always been friendship and the power that people have when they come together platonically. it's bizarre to me too, because i've been in this fandom for years (not always on tumblr, some on instagram or whatever) and b/ler just kind of massively grew up out of nowhere. i'd seen maybe one or two people before talking about it during previous seasons, but there was just this huge uprising of the b/ler community after s4 (which sort of makes sense but is still a little odd to me that they came up out of nowhere? i also don't remember previous b/lers being this exhausting to deal with). anyway, yeah, it all pretty much comes down to the fact that they all believe that the duffers have been hinting at this for years (which, hindsight vision is 20/20 so that's not really a valid point tbh) and fully believe that they're getting this picture perfect endgame.
honestly, i think another thing people are neglecting to think about is all of the stuff that we have to wrap up in 8-9 episodes. there is SO much going on now in this show that plot holes are pretty much guaranteed, not even considering the possibility of b/ler becoming canon. i'm honestly not really sure what they think is going to happen - the show will just take an entire shift into being solely about mike and will JUST to resolve the possibility of b/ler happening? i'm not even trying to be bitchy and put these people down or something, it's just crazy that people think that the show will take this massive shift in direction or that they'll just add in a whole new plotline when we probably won't even have enough time to satisfyingly and properly wrap up everything else.
also, there are so many characters that i think the duffers just don't know how to write or what to do with now. jonathan, will, erica, probably dmitri and murray now that they've basically joined the giant cast. and the sad thing is that fans come up with plotlines and stuff all the time for their fics or just for silly posts online, but the duffers just seem not to know what to do with most of their characters ever. (cough cough st/ncy s4 revival for NO reason).
the setup for b/ler just ISN'T there, like you said. yes, there are a few cracks in the foundation of m/leven's relationship, honestly, but that's not enough to wrap everything up and end AND start a whole new relationship in 8-9 episodes. whether b/lers want to realize it or not, b/ler is NOT the main plotline. defeating the upside down and vecna is. those are just obvious facts, and therefore this is the priority when it comes to things that have to be addressed and finished by the ending. maybe, if we have two more seasons to go instead of one, or if this was a show with 22-26 episodes per season, i could see where s4 was the setup, but it just isn't. we don't have the time to focus on it.
mike's monologue may have been a lie, who knows, but again, like you said, this is just... bad??? like why would you want that. there are already parallels between the whole st/ancy = m/leven thing at this point, but that was so messy and it's still not resolved to this day, and that was from s1!! again, we don't have the time to reenact all of st/ncy's breakup with m/leven because it was a disaster. and also no one ever knows how to hold fair accountability over people, so i'm 100% certain that that happening would lead into people shitting on el even more than they do already and blaming her for everything.
also a small point that's been in the back of my mind lately that i want to point out, as a queer woman myself, is that this ship would not be so popular if it was two girls/women instead of two boys/men (speaking in terms of actor ages since they're adults now). it's a thing that happens where everyone LOVES mlm rep and shits on anything wlw because theres always some bullshit reason to hate seeing a wlw relationship portrayed in the media. i know this isn't a primary issue but it still upsets me so much because it's so obvious, just from the treatment of robin and her literal canonical love interest vickie!! there's some fucked up misogyny in all of this, and also in the way that everyone will throw el to the side, putting this idea onto her that she either doesn't like guys so she can't possibly like mike or that she just is basically "too traumatized to know what love is" and i'm so tired of it. i'm SO tired of it.
back to the st/ncy = m/leven thing, i REALLY appreciate you pointing this out, "Every time people joke about the Wheelers not saying I love you to their respective partners bc they fancy someone else I want to puke because it's not a cute parallel and the other person in that relationship is lied to which is horrible." because that's exactly how i feel. it's not cute or funny, it's immature and deceitful. and yes, they're all children/barely adults at this point, but still. it's not some parallel that you should be happy about. i've been in that situation, i've been the steve harrington of the st/ncy & j/ncy love triangle, it's not fun. it hurts, someone is quite literally saying they don't love you (or perhaps worse when they CAN'T say they love you because they don't) and it's traumatic and everyone yet again ignores that.
j/ncy's getting together WAS chaotic and messy and honestly i'm not even surprised that they're falling apart in canon right now because you can't start out like that and then expect a good, happy, fairytale ending. it just doesn't work that way. everyone's mad about them having issues and raged about them being "couples goals" and the "best ship of the show", whatever, but honestly it was quite literally just someone cheating and lying to try and escape a relationship she didn't want instead of having proper communication. and i get it, it's hard to do that, but the show and the fandom never hold nancy accountable and always blame steve for everything, so i'm honestly annoyed with it. seeing all this mess, how could you possibly want that for your ship?
LOVE your steve sidenote there, because you're so right. everyone ignores the fact that steve has trauma, both from nancy and the upside down (seriously, how can we agree that EVERYONE ELSE except him has UD related trauma but he doesn't?? i don't get it). and i get it to an extent because the duffers ignore it just as much, but still. for some reason steve fans adding onto his character with realistic things is just a horrible thing to do, despite the fact that will fans have to do this as well and it's fine when they do it. i don't know how any of the st/ncy fallout was 100% steve's fault, and i will defend it until the very day that i die, honestly. the show has a narrative, and then it was to equate being popular and being a jock to being a villain, so they tried to make the audience take nancy's side and sympathize with her. which, again, is fine, but don't go and attack other people for wanting to see from multiple perspectives here.
i quite literally saw a post the other day that was like "the people who go and add all this stuff to steve's character are so annoying because none of that would happen in the show." well sweetheart, it's not happening in the show because the duffers don't care and also don't know what the hell they're doing lol.
"Plus him not committing to anyone because he is scarred from that experience is valid and it's an explanation for his behavior in s4." THIS. why are we all just glossing over this??? the pining after nancy again for old time's sake, the serial dating that never develops anything intimate - some people for some reason think it's just "proof" that he truly wants/belongs with nancy, but no! it's literally him being afraid to commit to anyone again, and honestly i don't blame him. and like you said, it doesn't make nancy a bad person, but honestly i just wish canon would at least have them talk about it so he can have actual closure or something for once. that's the best ending for him i can think of - st/ncy closure and stobin platonic besties forever.
absolutely agree with getting the weird feeling about shipping two children. it gives me an odd feeling too, honestly. which, i'm not taking it too seriously, it's just a little weird. other than that, they definitely are in their own little bubble of delusion and when that bubble inevitably pops, i'm not even sure what to expect, because it is a little scary. they attack anyone who disagrees and are genuinely so rude for no real reason, so who knows what they're gonna do when they realize that they don't get this happy ending that they've manufactured? honestly this is just another solid reason that i'm glad it'll take a while for s5 to come out.
#em speaks#stranger things#asks#dear anons#<33#also i slashed through all ship names just so we can stay unbiased#i dont wanna bring in anybody. even for j/pper lmao
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something about how in season one, after el reaches out to will, she cries
and in season two, she cries reaching out to her mother...and also to mike?
not sure if this is how the parallel should be read, but it seems like theyre comparing El’s family to mike
#and I know will *technically* wasn't her family in season one BUT the plans were definitely there cause j/pper was clear#and el was positioned to be his daughter so they were always set up like that#byler#st rewatch#and she's like full on sobbing too so I think theyre fair game to be compared
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speaking my truth on st relationships. every single one of those sould have been platonic except for lumax
#st posting#or at least#the platonic dynamics on this show are so much better and should have been the focus 100% of the time#j*pper#yes#platonic co-parenting is so much better and more interesting. there was something there when they were young but now it has changed#being married in every sense of the word except for actually being romantically involved#m*leven#you know what i think about that#weird that the little girl who didn't know what friends are was written into a love at first sight story#willel is the best part of the s4 love triangle#elmax best thing to come out of s3 next to steve and robin#no more straight love triangles for nancy please#all the friendships between the og party deserve attention!!!#dustin and erica also#dustin and el!!#elmike.#how did i almost forget about my best friend elmike#maybe will can have a crush on lucas while he's figuring out that he's gay#same with el and max (the lesbian el agenda got me)#okay that's it#sorry mutuals who love the romance sakjdsa i'm fed up#st negativity#in case
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“Okay and? Chief Hopper is a jackass and I don’t like him is anyone really surprised by that? I thought I’d made it abundantly clear any of the times I’ve been forced to interact with him.”
open || pepper newby
#pepper {{ open }}#{{ open }}#(idk what this is)#(someone can talk shit or defend him)#(or he can answer who knows)#(she's just queen of the anti j*pper ship even if im their biggest fan LMAO)
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season 1 and 2 joyce you will always be missed
#i enjoy j*pper but i feel like it's at the expense of joyce being#her own character :/#also i'm back from europe so FInally..... finally writing#╰ ——— ✧ 006. ╱ ⌜ OUT. ⌟
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m*leven st*ncy and j*ncy have all ran their courses now
#st*ncy ended in s2!!! we dont need it back!!! give steve a storyline that isnt romance ffs#j*ncy is basically over like yeah its cute the actors are dating but that doesnt rly mean anything tbh#m*leven is just weird now theres no chemistry#they were cute in s1 and 2 idk wtf happened#probably mikes characterisation going to shit#also theyre kids in their first relationship like... its not that deep#acting like its this deep soul defying connection#they are children#j*pper and l*max are fine i guess#i think j*pper got prolonged too much for me to really care that they finally kissed#l*max had some great scenes and the actors rly are giving their all and they deserve everything#once again they are children so i just sorta;;;; cant get invested;;;; THEYRE KIDS THEY DONT NEED ROMANCE SUBPLOTS#duffer brothers cannot write romance imo#or characters#or put too much investment in characters who did not need it#aka dr brenner and billy#stranger things#st spoilers#i liked s4 (despite /some/ issues) and then vol 2 happened#and kicked me in the gut and said its good writing
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rate the stranger things ship go
rate like out of ten or like rank lmao??
lumax is the only 10/10 i can tell you that.
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Mango lassi
Da Lat rice
Maple gochujang chicken wings
Assorted pickles (olive, beet, cucumber)
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joyce and bob were the only healthy couple on stranger things send post
#and he was killed off by the duffers why? because he was soft#more men like bob and waymond on tv pls and thanks#st#stranger things#mel says stuff#i could go on about this for a while but.... i will get Mobbed by the j/ppers
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I know someone (well, a few people to be honest but I'm mainly going off their info) who keeps very close track of filming details and schedules as well as monitoring the actors' whereabouts - and oh boy it is not looking good for the ol' Milkvan in this first half of the season.
As in, Finn and Millie have had very little shared set days and are definitely not on the same or even similar schedules. They're also not filming at the same places; they are fairly certain that Millie has not shot a single day at the farm despite it seeming to be a large plot and location also one where we have confirmation Finn and Noah have filmed and likely filmed there this week too.
They think that El's main pairings will probably include the Byers-Hopper family (obviously), Jo/pper separately at some points, and Lucas, as well as perhaps another individual plot. Keep in mind this is just what's been shot already. But other than Mike visiting the radio station at what appears to be the beginning of the season they can't place them together at any other location yet.
Compare this to J/ancy and Jo/pper, which they know are shooting together at multiple scenes, and Lucas' whole plot revolving around waking up Max....
#unless theres major stuff being concealed it seems El's plot is very separate from Mike this last season#which is interesting :)#anti milkvan#byler#<- intended audience ofc#this is why im also 100% serious about will main characterism in S5#millie has not been filming nearly enough to have the most screentime
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if will wasnt in the picture do u think u would ship mileven? :)
i suppose it’s possible, but i do doubt it. i really don’t like “love at first sight” sort of ships, and i distinctly remember rolling my eyes during the kiss in s1 the first time i watched it, long before i shipped byler. i’m not sure if this is in response to my earlier post about m*leven, but i do think the potential was there if it was built upon, i just don’t think they did it well enough. i didn’t like how five minutes out of a lab she’s been trapped in her whole life she supposedly meets the love of her life and i didn’t like how after s2 they’d known each other for a week in total but were already so codependent on each other. to an extent, it makes sense, especially on el’s end, but i don’t like how it was portrayed as just a silly little thing instead of like, incredibly alarming.
even without will in the picture, their s3 drama was honestly just annoying to sit through, and i genuinely can’t imagine what their s4 plotline would look like without will. it is possible they’d do something completely different with them and i’d enjoy it a lot more. i feel like both characters suffered in terms of development due to the relationship, and instead of working it out themselves, will somehow got roped in?? mike’s big hyped up monologue was all based off a lie that will told, and i’m supposed to find that romantic? el’s supposed to enjoy that? it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for all three characters, which just kinda sucks
idk. i think under the right circumstances i genuinely could enjoy m*leven, but those circumstances certainly haven’t arrived in canon
#i’m not sure any of this was coherent#unlike j*pper and j*ncy i absolutely love both characters and want the best for them#and in theory that could be each other!#but the show does a really good job convincing me they absolutely are not the best for each other#so i’m just not sold on it#they hover somewhere around j*pper in terms of how much i enjoy them#they genuinely have some really sweet moments#also without will i wouldn’t like mike nearly as much#him being a good friend in s1 and s2 is the basis of my love for his character#i’m off topic now whatever i hope this made sense :)#ty for asking!!
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byler and the beauty/power of patterns
byler vs most likely endgame ships
unlike all other platonic relationships, byler is the only stranger things friendship that has similarities and parallels with pre-established couples, as well as being constantly associated with romantic tropes. the way duffers handle byler is very similar to the way they handle canonical couples such as l*max, j*ncy and j*pper. the pattern is the same. mike and will have all the “requirements”.
there is no other platonic pair in stranger things like this one. you can compare with any other friendship; byler is exclusive.
1. l*max
2. j*ncy
3. r*ckie
4. j*pper
5. multiple ships
byler vs byler
byler also parallel their own pivotal moments and dynamics. will and mike have one of the most emotional, dramatic and profound “friendships” on stranger things. their scenes hold so much power, tension and tenderness.
yes, they still could be just friends if it wasn’t for the previous similiarities with canon couples and for the different ways the duffers build up romantic and platonic relationships on their show.
mike doesn’t look at lucas and dustin like that.
*you can tell how much effort the duffers put into their scenes. beauty, intimacy and love. these three are personally my favorites.
byler vs m*leven
byler and m*leven also have some parallels. the difference, however, is that most of the time, these parallels convey a message in opposite ways, as if the scenes in question were comparing one another.
the tone and text of these two relationship scenes changes completely depending on what is expected of that scene, such as m*leven's funny and colorful breakup and byler's dark and sad fight.
*same look in his eyes btw (picture below)
*will was in every m*leven’s happy scene in season 4
some of the friendships that can be compared to byler are both steve x robin and max x dustin. at some point, steve and dustin liked robin and max. but you know they’re just friends and their love is mutually platonic.
the major difference is that will is in love with mike. his feelings have been cultivated for many years. it's pure genuine love. and honestly, there are no signs that his feelings are one-sided. mike seems to have sparks in his heart and their scenes were purposely constructed to be romantic.
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