the Johars heard of the "bury your gays" trope and took that upon themselves to fulfill to a T bc internalized homophobia and societal heteronormativity, having a meltdown in the f*cking club rn

Look, I personally lose nothing if Lokius doesn’t become explicit canon. And if that were to become the case, I’d also have no regrets for saying for years that that would happen in the show by the end ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I’ve said it before, but by now it would be Disney/Marvel’s loss, NOT mine. Whoever wasted or limited the potential would be the idiot, not me.

I’m simply never gonna feel crazy for noticing what’s happening in a story or silly for daring to hope it’ll be brought to fully satisfying narrative completion. That's just a me thing. Maybe this is because at heart I’m stubborn! But I’d like to think I’m not unreasonable. I can’t control whether writing stays consistent or censorship is overcome... But I just do my best to construct solid arguments, and as long as those arguments remain solid, I stand by them :)

I know not everyone would say the same, or they consider this to be "hope" or "optimism," but I see it as logic based in noticing what the text of a show/story is doing. And personally I also consider blatantly evident subtext to be "canon enough," so if we get my personal minimum, my happiness may still outweigh any potential disappointment for me.

However. Here's what I've come here to say today, in reaction to things I've seen floating around in the fandom:

While I do understand on some level why people worry that Lokius won’t be more explicitly canonically romantic because it could be censored by Disney.... At this point, I don’t understand how people can think Loki/Sylvie will still happen.

As of right now, there’s no way to argue for that in my opinion. (I'd like to see someone try.)

The show has set up a fun but very simple situation from basically the start:

They made romantic love a point of relevance in the show’s story. More specifically, they pointed out Loki's desire for a "real" romantic love, and had him learn the lesson that he doesn't deserve to be alone. They didn't HAVE to do all of those things and tie them together. They CHOSE to make romantic love relevant – and they have actively continued to choose to do that, to the point of including a mirrored dark love triangle in s2 ep3. That narrative thread simply has to be fulfilled.

So if they deliberately established that Loki wants and needs a “real” love, and his relationship with Sylvie was referred to as "fiction" so she cannot be a real love for him.... Who does it have to be?

Obviously it has to be Mobius. And of course, the whole show points to Lokius also, for countless more reasons than just this simple breakdown. But pointing this element out is the simplest argument one can make.

So either...

1. They take Lokius to full narrative completion with explicit canon, as they should and as I expect them to,

or

2. Loki's desire for a real love is left unfulfilled, open-ended, and/or made clear through subtext that it's Mobius.

Those are the options, if you ask me!

This is aside from how Lokius’ love story is now even at the core of the show’s themes and plot, which is an insanely strong vote in favor for their future canonicity.

But for the purposes of this post, I’m talking about whether we'll get explicit romance specifically, like a love confession or a kiss – and I do actually genuinely think we'll get both of those things. I'm not trying to force you to agree with me, but just to be clear, that's where I'm at with it and have been since 2021 lol.

So in regards to worrying about Loki/Sylvie...

They were never really a romance (yes, even in season 1) and they sure as hell aren't now. I can’t imagine they'll become one even IF Lokius is left subtextual.

So what actually remains to be seen is if the writers got to go all the way with Lokius, or if that central queer love story was censored on some level in the end.

My hot take is no one should be ~worrying~ about Sylki at this stage of the game. Free yourselves, people.

If the story starts abruptly going in a Sylki direction, even with only 3 episodes left, I will certainly be the first to say so lol. But I simply sincerely, truly doubt that'll happen.

(Hot take in the footer: this is not the post to get into this at length, but in case this comes up… In this house we do not use the word "queerbaiting." It is a useless, nearly-meaningless, insufferable term that devalues the legitimacy of subtext and queercoding more often than not; it's rooted in the idea that media must hit arbitrary and inconsistent checklists often set with cishet approval in mind; and it perpetuates a focus on the false and harmful myth that many creators are "cowards" instead of leaving room for nuance and the fact that industry censorship still exists.)

what do you think about the concept of the comic kids stumbling upon ericsons instead of clem leaving?

It's a fine concept that I doubt anyone would actually implement into their fanworks because comic bad. Most fans are too pissy about the comics to see any further than the tips of their nose, and I totally get it but it's kind of unfortunate for me since it limits the discussions significantly. I can only hear the same, "the comics ruined Clementine and TWDG, Tillie Walden bad, Skybound bad," so many times before I'm so tired that I retire to my chair with a glass of tea to stare disappointedly into the great nothing and deteriorate.

So, for fun, some ideas to toss out there:

As I said in my previous post, Amos would love Ericson. The dude would be all over the place and determined to make as many new friends as possible. I think Olivia would enjoy it, too, and maybe Georgia wouldn't be a half-assed villain... or she could've been made into a great villain... just saying, Georgia could've gotten in good with Marlon, learned about the raiders, and then convinced him to trade Amos away as a means of keeping him away from Olivia. Though, she might not have anything to worry about in this case; I maintain that Amos would've had a major crush on Ruby.

But then we get to Ricca. Within the comics, her character falters due to being Clementine's main love interest. As a concept, Ricca isn't actually that bad. It's the execution and how she's portrayed as a love interest that makes me not like her, so if we remove that, she has a shot at being a compelling character... because we're not sending her to Ericson to be a love interest, or shove her into a love triangle/square with Clementine and Louis/Violet. I think she'd get along with most of the Ericson crew, except I think she'd really butt heads with Marlon and Mitch. I can see her getting on well with Violet, too. I know saying they're alike in a lot of ways could be considered as offensive by some sensitive fans, but they're both queer girls with religious backgrounds and familial trauma and I think it's okay to entertain the idea that they'd get along. Also, they both have snark to them that could easily be bounced back and forth... or at someone else. Probably Louis, or Amos.

And honestly bring everyone except Morro from Book Two to Ericson. Get John away from his abusive mother. Let Amir be friends with AJ, Tenn, and Willy and teach them to play new games and stuff. Emi could teach them better ways to fish and could even go on longer trips to bring back bigger hauls for the group. Fen would love the school setting and would search everywhere for different maps and information about Taiwan. Hell, bring Giles and Ginette, the old French couple who don't speak much English. Let them settle down with little Mercy at Ericson where they can teach everyone how to knit and build stuff and just be grandparents to all these troubled youth.

Yeah, the comics suck, but what's a fandom to do other than take things they don't like and change them to be something they do, yeah?

Grey's 20x09

So everyone in Greys is bi now, huh? I mean, I'm fine with it (#understatement), but as long as they keep holding onto their stupid double standards (not investing nearly as much in their queer relationships as their straight ones), I also can't help but feeling annoyed. Seriously ABC, stop trying to score some GLAAD points when you're still too afraid to go there - no one's buying it!

All that being said...

Monica and Winston. It sure didn't take long for her to move on from the "I can't date cause I'm in the middle of a divorce". On the other hand, if he's the easy rebound, than at least that's out of the way, so maybe this isn't too bad. As long as they don't turn it into some boring love triangle.

Yasuda and Helm. It's a shame they broke up, but tbh they never met up to the expectations, with the exception of that one make-out scene. And I appreciated Helm mentioning the absurdity of having personal conversations like this at work! (Maya and Carina, among many others, are you listening?)

Mer and Nick. Still don't care about them, but still want to say that it makes zero!! sense that they are apparently not living together. Drama for the sake of drama.

Teddy. What were you thinking, of course you got fired! And by coming clean, you threw Mer and Amelia under the bus, too! And all that because you asked Owen's advise - Owen, who thinks he's a genius for thinking of some kind of system that already exist!! (sigh)

Lucas. Go to Chicago, you're insane if you let a chance like this go by. And double insane if it would be because of Simone.

Link and Jo. I'm sorry, but I'm just not feeling it, plus them being together is ruining both their characters - Link's esp. He was so much more fun when he was with Amelia. Also, I think he needs a male bff (not Owen!!). Someone to build a deck with, or whatever.

The patients story was alright. The moment the boyfriend thanked and hugged those parents felt honest and sweet.

With one more ep to go I think it's safe to say that this season might have had some moments, but didn't add much all together. Not just some filler eps, but a filler season. I'm willing to blame it on the writers strike, but it does leave me curious - and a little worried - about next season. If they want to keep me on board, they've got to invest in some better stories, make the best of their characters (or drop them), loose the double standard and stop preaching. So basically, get their s1 writers back.

same anon as before

YESSS EXACTLY

i love steddyhands because they have such an interesting balance of personalities esp with ed and izzy's history and the tension and the initial jealousy that turns into a softer love because stede helps balance them out (plus stede and izzy's slow friendship -> relationship) and it's just sad because it's clear DJ never viewed izzy that way (he said izzy was a mentor/father figure???)

and it had so much potential to be so interesting and complex and instead they went with the most cliche and boring route

yessss that’s exactly what i love about steddyhands too. if i was a writer, i’d have so much fun with that dynamic and as you said it’s nuanced and complex and interesting and so rich in potential. i love the idea of Stede softening the rough edges of Ed and Izzy’s relationship and leading them into new territory, coupled with the slower burn of Stede and Izzy's enemies to friends to lovers dynamic.

it’s very strange that Jenkins made comments about it being a love triangle and then switched up to mentor/father figure… like, Izzy literally declared his romantic love for Edward mere episodes ago. are we supposed to forget about that?

unfortunately, as a cishet man, Jenkins isn’t all too familiar with the queer fan experience. as shown in season 1 when he couldn’t believe anyone would think he would queerbait (he had no idea it was such a widespread issue in mainstream media). i fear this is why he also dropped the ball, because. we’ve all been traumatized by the bury your gays trope. because we’ve seen it countless times. keeping gay characters alive is an act of rebellion in itself. so you’re right, this major character death was bland, cliche and incredibly ignorant of the audience.

I’ll need a few days to really process the last episode, so don’t expect any meta until the weekend.

But I wanted to write a post about why I believe in the writers and why I think that … this sounds so arrogant and delusional, but that my predictions here* are roughly what will happen and queer folks can stay hopeful.

(*tl;dr: Essentially that Colin will be the inspiration for main characters to address their queerness, Ted Lasso spent two seasons straightbaiting its entire audience and this season will end queer as fuck)

When I started watching Ted Lasso I thought it would be a fun, but silly little sports comedy, but very soon it got obvious how the show featured heavier themes and that they didn’t follow the expected script. Like, when Rebecca tells Ted the truth, you’d normally get some drama and rising conflict – but we got instant forgiveness.

And it got soon obvious we’d get a love triangle with Jamie, Keeley and Roy and – as someone who knows how the script goes – my first assumption was, that Roy x Keeley will be endgame (which was sad, since I adored Jamie x Keeley from the beginning, but I digress).

But some of the things that usually put me off love triangles were missing: there was no prolonged unnecessary drama after Roy learned that Keeley hooked up with Jamie the night before, Jamie and Roy didn’t fight over who would “get” Keeley (even though Roy’s jealousy sure was one reason for the tension between him and Jamie, but it wasn’t the only one), Jamie didn’t try to actively win Keeley back throughout the second season, he didn’t try to sabotage their relationship, even though he still loved her. The rocky parts in Roy’s and Keeley’s relationship weren’t related to Jamie at all, on the contrary, Jamie kind of unintentionally fixed their problems.

So, when they diverge so much from the expected, should I really still assume they’ll end the show with the thing everyone expects to happen? (like, in classic romance structure, Roy and Keeley now had their third act break-up, that always happens before the happily ever after … but as Phil said in an interview, they’re situation is a lot more complex than you’ll usually get.)

So, anyway, Ted Lasso was playing with expectations from the beginning. You’d expect Ted x Rebecca and Roy x Keeley endgame cause that is how the classic narrative works but the show subverted classic structure in the first season. So why should we assume that they just stick to the classic script now?

Also the theme song:

“Yeah, might be all that you get,

Yeah, I guess this might well be it“

I always thought, for an optimistic show like Ted Lasso this was a kinda sober beginning. But if you look at this with a queer eye … Cishet people are so used to seeing their happy endings playing out, so that is what they’ll expect to get. Until the last couple years, queer people barely got any stories with happy endings, so you didn’t exactly grow up with the expectation you’ll get a happy ending.

So you just had to take what you got.

But on the other hand the song has this hopeful bit about trying and not giving up. And … okay, I’m not sure where I’m going with this, but, idk, it just feels like it would fit as the theme song for an ultimately hella queer show?

And there are a lot of allusions to “The Wizard of Oz”, starting with the title of the first episode, Ted being the “Man from Kansas” aka Dorothy – googling I found this post pointing out a lot parallels in the second season, so it is not just me being delusional again.

For context: The movie was released 1939. Between 1934 and 1968 due to the Hays Code people couldn’t be shown as being explicitly queer in movies in the US, so writers started to queercode characters to still indicate queerness. And there is of course queercoding in “The Wizard of Oz” just like Ted Lasso and the movie as a whole resonated a lot with queer audiences, making Judy Garland a Gay Icon (see here). 

Both the movie and L. Frank Baumans novels have a lot of queer subtext (like, there is even kind of a trans character in the novels?). "Friend of Dorothy” was a way gay men referred to each other at a time, where they couldn’t just openly ask about someone’s orientation.

Fun Fact: The movies title song “Over the Rainbow” soon became a queer anthem and people wondered whether it inspired the rainbow flag. But the creator, Gilbert Baker, said he was inspired by,

wait for it,

“She’s a Rainbow” by the Rolling Stones (see here).

Rings a bell?

The episode “Rainbow”?

Roy returning as a coach to Richmond?

Also: Jamie comparing the team to the Rolling Stones? Himself to Mick Jagger and Roy to Keith Richards, who both wrote the song?

And, looking at episode titles some more: The color "Lavender" is so queer it has it's own LGTBQ-section on Wikipedia. Also the bisexual pride flag, where the colours overlap to form lavender? There was probably some other reason I forgot that the episode where Jamie returned was called like the queerest color ever, but still …

WHAT A BUNCH OF CURIOUS COINCIDENCES!

Oh God, the more I look, the queerer everything gets! I think I could go on some more, but I need to get breakfast and then some work done.

overused cliches let’s go

- love triangle (bane of my existence)

- he’s a monster and she “fixes him”

- bad end queer stories (chill when done right and tastefully, but it’s a trope steeped in homophobia)

- “uh, he’s right behind me isn’t he” Disney movie line

- any fun high school experience. High school is a mess of hormones and misery

This was in response to my original post asking for overused tropes/clichés - I know I said I'd make a post on it, but I: a) completely forgot and b) was worried about unintentionally upsetting people by casting a negative light on tropes/clichés. As a whole they are very interesting to analyse/read about in narratives as they add structure/substance to a story.

Incidentally I have since written a long list of spy tropes that I can post if people are interested. (I watched a James Bond film and it inspired a long list). I've also been plugging away at a 'common whump tropes in film that annoy the average whump enjoyer' list.

That being said, here's mine:

- "You just don't get it, do you?" - Character unknowingly speaking to the enemy (open coms/hacking/stolen coms) - Speaking into a communicator on their wrist/shoulder/ear. - Walking away from a crash that should've killed them with a cut on their eyebrow. - "Is that all you've got?" / "I'm giving her all she's got!" - One last job before retirement - A computer virus that will affect everything in the world. - Nuclear launch codes being in a briefcase and requiring two keys. - "Turn on the TV" - "We've got company." - Underlying serious moments with jokes. (I am looking DIRECTLY at Marvel) - Villains need to be redeemed/have reasoning behind their actions (an increasing trend, particularly with Disney remakes. Sometimes villains are just villains. ) - "It's not what it looks like." - "You look like shit." - "Tell them I love them." - "You have to choose between one person, or the world." - or choosing between having superpowers or their loved ones. - Coughing indicating a terminal disease. - "Everyone I get close to, dies." - Manual overrides. - Hyper-intelligent = cold and unfeeling or extremely egotistical - Dead parents/family/loved ones making the hero jaded and untrusting.

Chain of Thorns: all my main thoughts

yes hello, i wanna make a large post abt this bc i just need to list everything out since i have A LOT of thoughts

MAJOR SPOILER WARNING

SERIOUSLY

DONT READ FURTHER UNLESS YOUVE READ THE BOOK

Things I Liked:

basically every moment where we got to see Will. I was laughing at so many things that Will said and I missed having that, since I will never get enough of Will's humor.

Seeing Jesse interact with the Merry Thieves. It made me so happy and I love seeing Jesse's dry humor mixed in with the Merry Thieves; he fits in with them so well.

Just human Jesse in general. Everything about him made me so happy. He was so kind and brave and quite funny.

Getting to see more of Anna/Ari. During the first book we got almost nothing of them, partially because of Ari being poisoned but also because Anna was kind of not in the main circle yet.

Christopher visiting Grace and them getting to know each other. It made me so happy that there was someone who could see past what Grace had done and could give her a second chance, and their bond over science was so sweet.

Thomastair. That's it. No explanation needed.

Ghostwriter I thought was pretty well done, but the whole "them kissing would cause Lucie to see demon stuff" was kind of unnecessary.

Jem being there for Grace and talking to her to help her through

The Watchers were a really cool plot twist I wasn't expecting

honestly the james turning on the lamp on pg 127 caused a lot of pterodactyl screeching which was fun

the Herondaisy scene in chapter 23 hehe

Effie every time she opens her mouth

Also Bridget who is my queen. she is my love, my life, my star.

Eugenia Lightwood just existing was fabulous.

Esme being the most random plot thread ever which caused a lot of unexpected laughter

"Alastair why are you so stupid I brush my teeth dont tell anyone" LMAO

Alastair with the baby

Again, Thomastair.

Matthew's eventual acceptance of Alastair into the group

Cordelia outsmarting Lilith with her deal

Belial having a weird obsession with being crowned prince of London or whatever

Also Belial's weird bird demon friend made me CACKLE

Bridgestock blackmailing Charles. if i'm honest, i think it was a great part of the plot bc it did kind of give Charles a slight redemption (but also him being kind of outted is also really bad) but i think it was great in kind of allowing Flora be able to accept Ari without fear of Maurice

Lucie and Cordelia talking abt Cordelia's boobs lmaooo/The Wicked Queen Cordelia

Grace's entire arc through this book

the different meanings behind "cordelia ran"

Things that made me sobbbb:

Will becoming a sort of father figure to Jesse

The Merry Thieves helping Matthew with his drinking

Cordelia and James when they finally confessed for real

Matthew's entire arc with his drinking and telling the truth

Christopher's death

"you are my unfinished business" IM SOBBING STILL

Christopher's death

The scene where they see that Kit's dead

Kit being dead

Intermission: Grief

the fact that kit was in fact dead and not going to come back at the end (i was in denial for the entire second half)

Matthew and James while in Edom

Thomas coming out to his family

Alastair telling Cordelia that he's always afraid for her with her being the wielder of Cortana

Again. Kit's death. (i cried a lot ok its been an emotional couple of days)

Things I didn't like:

The whole love triangle. I still don't think that Matthew truly loved Cordelia and i never believed it would be an actual love triangle

the fact that the truth about the bracelet had to be kept secret for so long. it felt kind of unnecessary. there were other ways to draw out the plot than that.

the fact that tatiana exists

Kit's death. I feel like it's so unfair that of all people, he's the one to die. it didn't feel well written, it felt like it had to happen bc she couldn't kill the queer characters and Kit was the only main character left that she COULD kill.

Grace's entire plot being kind of left without an ending.

The lack of mourning/a funeral for kit. (since we didnt get enough mourning, i think im going to write it bc i want to suffer for the purpose of completing the loose ends)

the pacing. the entire plot felt so oddly paced, and it wasn't as much of a mystery like choi or chog.

again, why christopher? i feel like matthew would've been a better choice, or perhaps sona.

magnus kind of getting written out so early

though i love our gay couples and their accepting families, it is a little bit unrealistic. i get that the point is that this particular batch of the families are very kind people in comparison to what their families become a little farther down the road(ie Robert, maryse, etc), but it still feels a little bit unrealistic.

i felt like the whole lucie and cordelia struggling with their friendship thing was a little bit too much to add into this already very full book. (although i loved the wicked cordelia reveal that was fun)

i feel like we didn't fully get the wrap up at the end that we needed. we didn't see enough of them after the battle, as they came to terms with their losses and their wins and how they would continue their lives.

also we never really got to see jesse meeting his cousins/aunts and uncles and i wish we'd gotten that.

Questions I still have:

bridget? whats going on with her? theres a throwaway line in the coda mentioning something is odd abt her, but thats it??

grace. what is going to happen to grace? i wish we could perhaps see her and figure out if she's alright.

im still confused abt the lightwood line. i guess they're trying to say that alexander is going to continue it? (that actually kind of makes sense, genetics wise tho, cuz alexander looks like cecily and alec and izzy are supposed to inherit that)

will we ever get a revised family tree?

blackthorn line???

Rupert's ghost?

fairchild line? am i correct to assume that its going to tie into charlotte's pregnancy reveal at the end?

I'm sure I have more thoughts but I can't remember them at this present moment and I didn't write them down but these are all the ones I wrote down.

lmk what y'all think abt this book

what’s kotlc and is it better than the great library? i read the latter and it was fun, perhaps not the height of literature but fun

OKAY! Keeper of the Lost Cities by Shannon Messenger is a long, ongoing middle-grade fantasy series following Sophie Foster, a 12-year-old high school senior who can read thoughts following a bump to the head at age 5--or so she thinks, until she's approached by a cute stranger who reveals she's really an elf who's been hidden away.

She's whisked away to a secret, supposedly perfect world of elves, goblins, ogres, and more. Sophie wants nothing more than to be normal, and tries to fit in--go to school, play with friends, etc.--but all her abnormalities have followed her from the human world. She's still weird, and it turns out it might be the result of bigger forces working behind the scenes. Forces she needs to uncover to learn who and what she truly is--but there's no taking it back, and plunging into the underbelly of her supposedly "perfect" new world opens a seemingly never-ending rabbit hole to try and understand and save it from itself. Full of rebellions, corruption, mysterious notes, stuffed animals, a large cast of characters, and so. many. sparkles. there's a lot going on for Sophie to discover

I think tgl and kotlc are hard to directly compare. tgl has a lot of explicit found family, fast-paced action, and is, like you said, just genuinely fun to read. it's quick, speaks to booklovers, and embraces a variety of different moral stances in a way that distinctly characterizes everyone. but it does falter in terms of consistency, and there are several contradicting details throughout it. kotlc is more structurally sound, but it is meant for a younger audience--which is not to say it's bad, but that it does impact reading. There are some cliches, such as experiment children, excessively powerful ocs, a love triangle, etc. It also has a fairly developed and explored world on several fronts, though there are some gaps. It does, however, want for diversity and representation. There are few non-white characters, few disabled characters, and no acknowledgement of queerness so far--though given recent releases it's possible that last part will change.

While kotlc is a special interest of mine and I'm quite attached to it, I don't necessarily recommend it to people outside the middle-grade age range. It's a solid series despite its flaws, but that doesn't mean you'll be head over heels; if you read it, I think it would be similar to how tgl was fun but not the height of literature. It's enjoyable and there are a wealth of characters to get attached to, compelling plotlines/character pasts, but unless you really click it'll just be a solid, time-filling read.

The series has also had a rough few years recently; the author has a lot going on in her personal life--which is totally fine, it just means there are long waiting periods currently. And not everyone thinks its worth it, because the story is going an unexpected direction and there are some creative choices made not everyone likes (too much focus on the love triangle, deposing the main character, butchering character arcs last minute, etc.).

All this to say kotlc has radically altered the course of my life and is an incredibly dear series to me, and I will be keeping up with it and blogging about it until the end of time with anyone who wants to join, but it's also not my favorite series I've ever read, if that distinction makes sense. If you do want some simple, if long, reading--go for it! We're always excited to have new people around and would love to have you. There's actually a pretty consistent, if small, fandom and a lot of art, fic, and other things to explore. But we'd also all understand without any pushing if it's not for you.

That was longer than I meant it to be, but if you have any further questions please do ask :)--and again, this is my view on it! Just my opinions and assessments

TLC and Queer Narritives

This started as an update on playlist making for Nick ships and has devolved into a rant about Queer narratives being capitalized on in TLC. I wanna give Tracy grace here, but after having a great discussion about how Bree’s black community feels one note/magical negro-ish…yeah I gotta get this off my chest 😭

Tl:dr I don’t think Nick and Sel’s (mutual!) romantic feelings are fleshed out in a way I think is fair to Selwyn as his own character with feelings and priorities outside of Bree and the Oaths. I understand that is Bree’s story so it makes sense Tracy didn’t focus on that. But I feel that fleshing the queer narrative could have been revolutionary and instead falls short of the mark. Cuz the story could have functioned largely the same with them as rivals and friends with no romantic undertones.

To me it’s more than “oh Nick shows that he cares about Sel in these ways” Cuz yeah. It’s clear Nick cares about Sel. But even for a love triangle I think it’s TOO unclear, TOO vague, even with the Order trauma context that that care is EXPLICITLY romantic and not just extremely close and trauma ridden. They have a brotherly, rivals, and friend dynamic going on which all feels more fleshed out than a romantic dynamic.

And I say TOO because, well…outside of Selwyn Kane being my baby boy who I love to the moon and back…I’m just kinda particular that the feelings of a young man be taken seriously and given narrative weight OUTSIDE of how it relates to the competition of heterosexual ships, or to the ease/simplicity of a polyamorous “solution” to the triangle.Like, if you’re gonna have a confirmed Pansexual character… and have that pansexual character’s queerness only really be explored in text by how it functions as an facet for a love triangle with potential to be polyamorous even IF the plot is busy…ion like that.

I think I see this whole OT3 and NickSel at a certain angle because while I can relate to Bree for so many reasons as a black woman, Sel’s queerness brushing on themes from my own Queer Awakening™️ and I think queer experiences a lot of people have.

Tell me if any of this rings a bell, my fellow LeeGeeBeeTees: Deep admiration of someone turning into something that looks and feels like attraction—especially if that’s first time you’ve ever felt something like that? Unsure if what you’re feeling is jealousy and wanting to be more like them or actually wanting them? Heightened awareness of their moods and weird desire to attend their emotional needs even when it’s not reciprocated or mutual or necessary? Being more open about your sexuality and/or not being cishet passing and being into someone who maybe is neither of those things. Sleeping/getting together with someone of the opposite to be “normal” and get over those feelings? Having the person you’re into be interested in having a “normal” relationship with someone that you don’t even like very much? Yeah. Yeah. YEAH.

Like to me, I can read between the lines of what Sel has said and done and fill in the blanks for wistful, beautiful, gay as fuck life experiences!! He is so fuckin valid! But WHY is his HURT doing the heavy lifting for the queer narrative in text??? His hesitation when asked about his feelings and cautious pessimism makes sense!! Almost all of the things I see people commonly point to as Nick showing he cares for Sel almost all indirectly involve Bree! Or is muddled by the Oaths—which you can SAY is the same for Sel, maybe, but not in the same way imo.

I’m not saying that Nick has to have had the same queer journey or awakening as Sel. or that he had to figure out his feelings at the same time as him. Or that he needs to be romantically interested in Sel to have an OT3 happen. But I AM saying that this feels very lopsided. And unlike normal love triangle messiness’s this feels…not fun to engage with. Because even if/when Tracy fleshes Nick and Sel out more to go for an OT3 situation, because this book is not about them, I really worry that Nick’s half of the equation will fall flat. And we get the queer representation but not much of queer story outside of their straight relationships to the main character.

In the interim of the next book, imma need Nickel and OT3 shippers pls make some Nick and Sel queer content to fill in these gaps. Preferably pre LB, no Bree! Or post Oath! Or time between them finding out where SK took her! Give me preteen preening and showboating for each other really being flirting!! Give me teen gaynst mutual unrequited pining, but actually, secretly REALLY requited mutual pining!!! Give me an “Oh. Oh? Oh.” Realization!! THIS SHIP CAN FIT SO MUCH LOVE AND ADORATION IN IT!!!! This shit writes itself, and yet in text I have to see molehills as mountains??? Naaawww.

Nicholas and Selwyn—the most powerful young men in the centuries old Order based in the American South with misogynistic origins, that took their mothers from them and grew up in a dysfunctional toxic environment—being GAY and finding LOVE is fucking BEAUTIFUL and it deserves far more care and attention from the narrative. I’m holding out for this rant age HORRIBLY by Book 3 but rn…I’m salty as hell!

P.S.—me joking that Alice and William are the ~homosexual supporting cast~ is funny but also bet not be me jinxing it. Again, Bree’s story. But more than “Tor is Alice’s type”/“women are hungry so i cook” and “yeah I have a bf but broke up with him weeks ago”/“red herring romantic rival for Bree that lasted 5 minutes before jk he’s gay and blushed at Will??” I’m not expecting Brewlyn levels of build up or whatever but c’mon now!!

Mike’s Pocket - AKA, Theo losing his goddamn mind over FUCKING fabric

Okay, so I’ve talked about this before, you’ve definitely read about this before, everyone knows about Pocketgate by now—so, instead of reiterating old points, I’m gonna summarize my opinions (and therefore what I’m drawing from for this whole thing) the stuff that we’ve all been over and then I can talk about fun stuff >:D

1. Finn Wolfhard said that the pocket was sideways!

Okay, yes he did say that, but I also need everyone to look at the pocket closely for a second.

See that thick shadow and creasing at the top? The pocket opens from the top, meaning that it can’t open from the side (underneath the triangle) because it needs to be attached by at least three sides—otherwise, it would be hanging off. There is no way for the pocket to open from the side, because it wouldn’t be structurally sound—additionally, we would see the fabric creasing to accommodate that opening, whether or not there’s a cover over it. That triangle opens (we can see that the metal circle is the same kind of snap closure that’s at his neckline), but it’s purely decorative.

2. The triangle points to Will all the time!

HELL YEAH! GONNA GET INTO THAT!

3. There’s a letter in the pocket! Hm. See, this is where I’m torn, because I love the idea, but also, I don’t think it… makes sense? Even folded up notebook paper (because it would have to be folded to fit) would be noticeably bulging (hate that word for…chronically online reasons) against the fabric and noticeably pushing it out. This anon I got a while back makes a good point, but I’m not a huge fan. I just feel that we would see the letter in the pocket, because even if (like the anon said) they’re planning on him having a letter, he wouldn’t have had it in that pocket because changes of clothes do exist, and after several sweat, dirt, blood and grime filled days in the same clothes, no matter how much of a teenager Mike is, he would one HUNDRED percent change out of that thing as soon as he had the chance. No point in keeping it around.

4. Triangle imagery = queercoding!

FUCK yes. The woman in charge of costume design literally said that she purposely incorporated triangle patterns and organization into Robin’s clothing, there’s absolutely zero reason to believe that she wouldn’t do that for other characters that are intended to be queer.

FUN PART NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just finished my fourth or fifth rewatch of season 4 today, and I noticed something kinda neat—it almost seems like there’s… two jackets?

I’ve talked before about my theory that they used interfacing in the pocket (because we know that it’s handmade) to draw our attention to it, and I stand by that based on the way that it moves—in certain scenes.

A fabric that’s reinforced with interfacing will bend, but it will NOT bend the normal way fabric does. It doesn’t quite follow the shape of your body—I mean, it will follow the curve roughly, but it’ll kinda make its own shape. I wish I had an example, but I don’t own any clothes with interfacing, aaand my mom already looked at me like I was insane when I ran in to bend the collar of my dad’s shirt to hopefully get an example, so. You’re just gonna have to take my word for it. 

For example- interfacing in the collar of his shirt to keep it stiff!

NOW, FOR A REFERENCE!

Alright. Here’s a shirt made out of what I’d wager is a pretty similar fabric, although I think it’s slightly more flexible than what Mike is wearing. (If I see any of y’all insulting my fashion taste I Will End You)

When the fabric around it is scrunched, it keeps its shape, yes—but the fabric of the pocket creases slightly in places where it already had wrinkles. And what about when it’s actually on?

I hope you all know I bound my chest (at almost 11pm) so I could make this as accurate as possible without it getting in the way. 

Anyways, see how when my arm is close to it, it bends? Mike’s only does this, like, half the time.

This is a terribly blurry image, but you can see that the pocket is facing Argyle, and is bending perfectly naturally with his arm pressed up against the side of the shirt. It matches the shape of his pose, and it doesn’t look like there’s anything in there. Regular pocket! No interfacing!

Points to Jonathan, and it’s a little stiff, sure, but it's creasing pretty normal. Likely just a stiff jacket.

This one is,,, tricky. It looks pretty stiff, I’d agree. 

But look closely! The black lines are where it creases and wrinkles with the shape of the rest of the fabric, and the white traces how the shape of the pocket follows the shape of the edge of his shirt.

And oh, my favorite ever example (and the reason I’m looking into this to begin with) <3 that pocket is moving NORMALLY and it’s facing EL!!!!! RIGHT AS HE’S SUPPOSEDLY ABOUT TO SAY ILY!!!!!!!!

But let’s look at some examples where it IS facing Will. 

NOW THAT’S AN INTERFACED BEND! JUST A LITTLE BIT TOO PERFECTLY CURVED! Notice the difference between how it’s bending in this versus when he’s with El in the last example! (of course, the difference in pose should also be accounted for, but still. That is HEAVILY drastic.)

FUCKKKKKKK YEAH BAYBEE

STIFF! ASS! POCKET! I mean, it’s nearly straight (heh), whereas Will’s is way more curved. They’re both slouching and facing the same direction. 

(Tracing isn’t perfect but my point still stands.) 

Anyways, I fully believe that there’s two copies of this jacket—one for scenes with Will on Mike’s left, in order to draw attention to the triangle/arrow; and one for scenes without him. Thoughts?

Ok, spoilers for this year hellfire gala. This is going to be an overall gush, probably barely coherent. I’ll try to intercalate positive and negatives?

What in the actual fuck?!

First of all, the Kamala resurrection was exactly as meaningless, corporative and boring as expected. I just can’t wait to see what stupid power they come up with as her mutant gift (supposing of course that the terrigen/x-gene incompatibility will be solved trivially on an artificially convenient moment [like her whole death and resurrection was]). Also (and I’m jumping the horse a little, but this is a really meaningless nitpick that just stayed on my mind) how does she know the X-men red triangle psychic resistance thingy?

Scott wearing his old Champions suit? Complete flop. He can’t sell it at all. But I do find it cute and endearing, and this is exactly the pathetic Summers behavior that I’m here for.

The G.O.D.S. cameo was really clunky. I mean, I know nothing about those people, apart that they didn’t help at all on the whole thing (and maybe they have a reason for that. I wouldn’t know) and that Wyn is hot. I may give it a chance for more Wyn.

Speaking of hot, David? Slay. Emma? Slay. Jubilation? Slay. Kate? Omega slay. Like, if this is the last hellfire (and I don’t mean this on a “wow, this could have everlasting consequences” way, but a “yeah, I don’t think they should try to sell this idea again for two or three years”), at least they could serve until the end. Imagine how funny all the Charles drama would be if he was wearing his stupid baby pope atire from the first gala?!

The avengers? As pointless as expected. Nothing new under the sun, and I actually appreciate that they are useless on X-titles.

About the New York Arbor Magna thing, can we please have Cyclops leading the team on a wheelchair for like… this whole phase? It would be so weird, and fun, and iconic! Like, having Charles walking around (or, I don’t know, dying alone on that freaking beach? I would enjoy that.) and Scott brooding on a chair? Absolutely fantastic. I do think Emma and Scott leading again could be a nice echo to last time.

Because… we are having a new (supposedly) mutant genocide again. Imagine being resurrected from Genosha, or Decimation, or the Terrigen stuff, and immediately dying again? Lol. The concept is so so overdone at this point. It doesn’t preserve the impact at all.

On the other hand, you know that post about how every queer person has a universe-appointed C tier X-men character to love and cherish? I do think my baby Explodey-boy is dead know. Absolutely homophobic behavior.

I do enjoy Stasis and Nimrod very much. At this point, I would devour an orchis tittle if they promised me absolute lack of Moira and Feilong (as they are, in fact, shit). When Stasis said that Charles understood powers of ten? And the dancing? Send me shivers. Talented, brilliant, incredible, amazing, show stopping (…).

I also think Jean stole the scene a little bit. I’m not usually a Jean stan, but god dammit she is so strong. And like, not only in the Omega Telepath Phoenix way, she has so much presence and name, inside and outside the world, that so much can be supported by her. I feel like the whole story is hanging by her absoluteness of a character. And Maddie holding her??? Aaaaaa

That’s it, I guess… just wanted to do my overall first impression. I do like the Krakoa era very much, and the last decade or so have taught me to take apparent big status quo changes with a grain of salt (I mean, Emma is supposed to marry flop Stark in four or five chapters, right?! Things should probably be relatively stable by them), but I can see myself enjoying the change of pace a little.

By far the worst gala? Yeah. For sure. Like, criminally bad chapter. But I do see some things planted that could end up being really fun.

I am going to be honest, as a queer person it also irritates me when I see the GA talk about Will, especially in the context of his sexuality and them not noticing it and saying he must like Eleven. But at the same time, I have to agree with the GA on one part, and that is the way the show wrote things in terms of Will's sexuality (and his whole character... but that's another topic), they made it so subtle that most of the audience missed Will was gay. He doesn't even come out to Jonathan, and the fact that the scene between them both was also an afterthought left a bad taste in my mouth. The van scene happens so quickly into the episode too, so it has like a couple of minutes at most and then the audience's focus is shifted to the main plot. It isn't centered or anything, it kind of seemed like they just wanted to show it and then quickly move to the 'real things' to me. That's ofc partly dependent on how the Cali plot is overall written and their lack of screentime and focus compared to other plotlines, but the scene feels very out of touch with everything else going on, and on top of that the confirmation is not that obvious either, so it feels sort of weird. Most of the audience didn't notice the scene and didn't understand it because of the writing choices imho, so I really cannot fully blame the audience for their criticism and lack of noticing things.

But the thing is, it was not that subtle at all. You didn't have to be a super analyst to see the signs.

I am someone who likes critically thinking about the media I consume, but I often completely ignore the romantic aspects of characters. Most popular media these days boil down to a straight romance with a love triangle that didn't need to exist but the writers couldn't think of any other way to make it exciting.

I also don't put a lot of thought into character sexualities because it's always either a case of super straight no question about it, straight but the writers thought it would be fun to imply they're not, or gay in an almost stereotypical way that executives wanted to cash in on.

To me, Will was none of these things. He was just... an average kid in the closet. I started to pick up on it in season 2, mostly nearing the end. Joyce was teaching him how to dance at the ball but she was the lead which is usually what a guy does. Will clearly and obviously had no interest in dancing with that girl and it wasn't because she called him zombie boy. And finally, "every smile you fake" playing when he was on screen as the Mind Flayer, who was just inside his mind, was hovering over the ball.

It was then I went, "Ah, Will isn't straight. Not sure what he is exactly, but it's not straight. And the monster probably knows it. "

How can anyone not notice those things? You have to be blind not to see the signs. I don't think the writers need to be particularly overt and blast it in peoples faces, people should be able to pick up on those clues in my opinion. Especially how awkward Will was being with that girl compared to every single one of his male friends.

And then you got season 3??? How can anyone possibly think "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" and Will's absolutely devastated reaction to it could mean anything else? You really think a teenage boy would be on the edge of tears and have an emotional breakdown in the forest just because his friend said he doesn't have a crush or a girlfriend?

I mean I know teenage boys are emotional, but it was SO obvious what was being laid down and anyone who denied that was being purposely obtuse. People were arguing about it on reddit for years leading up to season 4 even though it WAS SO OBVIOUS.

And then in season 4???? No one has any excuse anymore not to see what was going on with him. It wasn't not subtle at ALL. I think even the straightest person you ever did see knows how a coming out scene might look like even if the words "I'm gay" are never said. That was the Will and Jonathan kitchen scene in a nutshell.

Maybe the writers could've done a few things here and there to make it even more obvious for the less observant people (like the cut script of season 2 when they had Will looking at Mike across the room dancing with El, though I feel they cut that because they were probably still debating on who would Will actually be interested in, Mike or someone new)

But I will not give the audience a pass at this point for missing what is right in their face. Especially when some of that audience is actively malicious against LGBT+ anything.

I do not advocate dumbing down our media or making things so overt that it's out of place so that people who refuse to analyze their media even a teeny tiny bit won't have to think at all. If a general audience member later realizes WIll was gay and says "Oh I didn't notice!", then their first thought should be, "Dang, I really missed that? I should rewatch and actually watch the show this time."

You don't need a big brain to consume Stranger Things. It's not as deep or complicated as some shows can get. But also, people shouldn't treat Stranger Things as the summer popcorn flick where they just go into the movies, laugh and giggle, and then forget everything as soon as the movie is over. There are too many people in the GA who treat it this way, ESPECIALLY after what season 3 turned out to be.

I know that probably everyone knows about Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao and has either already read it or has it in their list for later but YALL NEED TO READ THIS BOOK!!!

you will LOVE this book if you:

- love stories with giant robots that you control with the help of a partner to fight against nonhuman creatures

- love stories with complex and tormented main characters with difficulties processing their family issues

- hate love triangles

- love CONFIRMED SEQUELS OUT IN APRIL 2024

- hate delicate, fragile, and desperate female characters who look to male love interest for assurance and directions

- I finished this book in 24 hours (fast paced!)

- disability rep, queer rep, and poc rep

- this book is so much fun and so exciting

- I literally almost put a major spoiler down but I DIDN’T, so I guess you’ll have to actually read it to guess what I almost said :)

okay ngl the plot of the movie actually sounds really fun, definitely an interesting twist. really cool to have another example of how much execution and production does for the overall outcome of a movie/show

honestly really funny in a ST context tho, you have people swearing up and down that the Duffers are secretly terrible writers who have no idea what they're doing but also have this Very high quality show that's up until s4. like. off topic from the Tutor but it's genuinely funny to me how people say the Duffers won't be able to write a byler "twist" when they're already watching a very well put together show

maybe more of the highly Duffer critical fans actually Should go watch the Tutor and the Room and other camp movies so they see what a show/movie that has no idea what's going on actually looks like

Honestly! the Tutor as a premise was just fine—it just had such unbelievable jumps in logic and bad dialogue that it was obvious the writing wasn’t as thought out or capable as it needed to be to meet the concept it was based on. It…was an experience, especially for someone who just came off of seeing 22 films in preparation for the Oscars ☠️ I said in my first comments about the movie—that script was like. “First year film student trying too hard to be intelligent” energy, not something that should had made it to a screen 😭 it is hilarious in retrospect though. I appreciate the absurdity of it all.

As for people who think the duffers are bad writers…lmao. I guarantee most of them have not watched as many movies or tv shows as they need to to understand how solid ST actually is as a narrative, because…once you see what bad writing actually looks like, it’s impossible not to tell the difference.

Tbh I think the real issue is most people ferociously critical of the duffers don’t know the difference between “I don’t like this” and “this is poorly written,” because even though there are places where they excel and places where they could put a little more love, the Duffers logic, writing, narrative jumps and subtext are all sound if you watch shows paying attention—and the ones that aren’t clear upon immediate viewing make sense when you piece together precious seasons to the “nonsensical” parts of action on screen.

I’ll be the first to tell you that M&R aren’t perfect, and there are certainly things I would change if I was writing it, but…they’re more than solid enough writers to handle a plot twist as straightforward as a love triangle with a queer element.

Anyone saying they “too stupid” to pull off a setup as clear cut as “two childhood best friends find love after one dated someone else” just because the end result is two guys together is either projecting from the queerbaiting fear they’ve got from other shows or just mad that people be gay imo 😂 Thanks for the ask!

Okay, so I am bored and gonna write a little bit of a post to explain why this ship war between byler and Matcha latte shouldn’t exist from a queer perspective. And this isn’t going to be a post just saying “I am write and you are wrong” this is an explanation of how fucked it would be for the queer community if Stranger Things was queer baiting. Starting off with explaining queer baiting because straight people really think that queer baiting doesn’t exist unless they personally recognize a character as queer. Which would never happen because straight people still be out here pretending Robin could realistically get with Steve. Queer baiting is when a piece of media alludes to the idea of queer characters or plot lines without actually planning on having or using said queer identities. Basically, a show using queer identities as a form of a plot dressing. Now a days it is not as common to see queer identities alluded to and never fulfilled as in the case of BBC’s Sherlock or other shows. (In which case many jokes about the characters being gay was used as a way to basically poke fun at the queer communities that formed around these shows). But now, queer baiting is more shows promising and fulfilling queer characters only to treat them less then straight characters or just use their queerness as a way to dress up their show. Think Voltron promising a gay character only for people to find out that it was for half a second and then never talked about again. In this case Stranger Things would be more like the latter. I would say that Robin falls into a line of queer baiting but not? Kind of on the edge. Her character is a side character in a way (becoming more main character in S4) and she comes in later so a pre set up romance would not be as strong as any of the original characters plot lines. But her romantic subplot is pushed more to the back ground then an unnecessary love triangle and is just left with her being heartbroken and then maybe has a possibility with her? Again though, Robin didn’t get a love interest in the main cast which none of the straight characters got a love interest out side of the main cast (besides Dustin IG. But doesn’t isn’t really a minority so it doesn’t even it out). But this isn’t about Robin and my opinions of her may change in S5. This is about Byler. Now that we kind of understand queer baiting, let me explain why Byler not be cannon would fall under queerbaiting. We all know Will Byers is cannon gay. He kisses boys okay bro. No one needs to argue anymore because they let Noah Schnapp out of the basement to confirm it since some people don’t know how to watch a goddamn show. If Will Byers does not end up with Mike Wheeler (or any of the main cast but all other party members are well paired off so good luck with that) who he has a romantically coded relationship with or at least a vv obvious crush on, then that means this show has introduced to queer characters just to crush their hopes and dreams. And then on top of that, there is no way they are adding in new characters so that means Will’s whole romantic subplot will just be for this poor gay boy to go around being sad and lonely forever while watching all of his heterosexual friends get to be with their partners. AND even if they did add in another character, the romantic subplot will still not be satisfying as yet again queer characters are being written off as not deserving the light of day for a proper romance. They don’t get the main character. They don’t win. They didn’t have to make Will gay. If they made Will gay just to make queer people watch the show but never plan on fulfilling any of Will’s plotlines and leaving him to be reduced to the sad lonely gay, then that is queer baiting. That is shitty.  I get why people love microwave but it would be cruel for them to be endgame. I could support wanting it to be endgame more if the writers hadn’t already made Will gay. Because I can not support the possibility of a giant corporation using queer people to get their money and then tell them “lol, sorry but gay people don’t deserve love. You can’t be a hero. You are going to be alone forever, bye lmao”. No one should. So ship what you like, but please just understand that S4 has changed how you must approach your ship. You don’t have to like byler. You don’t have to stop liking Multiplex. But you must acknowledge that Stranger Things writers and Netflix are being homophobic pieces of shit if they only plan to promote the same message of “Must suck to be gay” when promising real representation.  In conclusion, have fun all you want with whoever you ship but at least understand queer history at least enough to know when queer people are being fucked over and not just gloat in their faces about it