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silicon-tmblr · 4 months
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Do go off about the logical fallacies in Chapter 4, I always thought something was off about it. I'm curious to know your thoughts
Oh... if you insist... (currently bouncing off the walls with excitement ask??? I love answering ask—) ahem.
I suppose I can categorize my perceptions of Chapter 4 into levels of objectivity, with the highest being "I'm sure anyone with reading comprehension can understand the point I'm making and how this logic plays out" and the lowest being "I'm just petty about this"
Disclaimer: I'm a Kokichi liker but I kinda bash the guy in here. I insist it's out of a sense of love, as in "why the hell did you do that you little—" (my point is maybe don't read this if you're too too attached to Kokichi and don't like the insinuation that he did some bad stuff. Generally I assume this is a safe topic though.)
Let's start with my most objective take!
The murder setup was kinda garbage (might rephrase this heading later) (I didn't. fight me)
I know this sounds like opinion but hear me out. This is where the phrase "logical fallacy" really comes into play.
Let's outline Chapter 4 real quick. Miu is planning to kill Kokichi, and obviously Kokichi doesn't want this.
What are Kokichi's options from here? Apparently, one of them is reusing the motive from earlier in the chapter (the truth of the outside world) on Gonta to convince him to kill Miu under the guise of a mercy kill plan. This way, Kokichi doesn't die. This is what happens.
There's a lot to be speculated about regarding Kokichi's motivation for enacting this plan, but let's take the view that, first and foremost, Kokichi did not want to die to Miu.
With that out of the way, let's move on to the next piece of this defective puzzle: Miu's motive. We can cover this in two parts:
Part 1: Miu wants to kill Kokichi to escape the academy.
We can assume this much because she tried to set up a murder that would be near impossible to solve, as she would have had power over all the information available regarding the workings of the virtual world.
Kokichi makes the point in trial 4 that Miu coerced everyone to enter the virtual world so that she could manipulate the setting of the crime completely. She wanted to set up a murder that looked like it could only have happened in real life, while withholding the information that would reveal it was possible in the virtual world.
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Kokichi was the only one who knew quite a few of the finer details that allowed case 4 to be solved, and she planned to kill him anyway, meaning these details wouldn't have come to light. Since her intent was an unsolvable murder, she wanted to get away with it and escape.
Part 2: For what reason did Miu want to escape?
We can see that she wanted to change the outside world with her inventions based on her own words in Chapter 4. In a flashback of the moments before she was killed, seen in the Chapter 4 post-trial, she explains this explicitly.
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Her belief is that the outside world can be saved if she can only escape back out into it. She believes this is her duty as the Ultimate Inventor.
And finally, we reach the point that the logical fallacy falls into place. If we first assume that Kokichi Oma is a cunning individual who plans things out meticulously and considers all possibilities (thus allowing him to do ridiculously clever things like plan his own, truly unsolvable murder and write an entire script of dialogue for Kaito to use in trial 5), then we can assume that his actions in Chapter 4 are reflective of what he views as his optimal plan.
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And yes, in-game evidence shows that we are, in fact, to believe that Kokichi Oma is inhumanly smart and analytical. A script. A SCRIPT, with lines for every possibility he could possibly envision. It's a freaking tome of borderline clairvoyance ahksfwosfawei (as you may notice I do not like the existence of Kokichi's script. A SCRIPT. I may be a Kokichi liker but am I really supposed to believe he's a freaking clairvoyant????? like can't you clairvoyant the end of the killing game bro????? and I adfkaweoiefdfshkj)
See, the thing is... Kokichi's optimal plan, having Gonta murder Miu... is... not... optimal...
There's an alternative solution. All the pieces are in place for it to work. And the salt in the wound, the twist of the knife...
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...Is that Kokichi himself already knew the mechanism I'm about to propose.
If Kokichi wanted to survive Chapter 4, he could have removed Miu's motive to leave.
Using the already planted Flashback Light in the Virtual World which contained the memories of the true outside world, Kokichi could have demotivated Miu from even killing him. Her motive was saving the outside world, and Kokichi had what would have been irrefutable evidence that the outside world was unsaveable.
This logical fallacy could be explained by reasoning that Kokichi's motive for having Miu killed was not only to survive, but what then? What would Kokichi's motive have been otherwise? Maintaining a mastermind act?
Why would he even need to do that if he could have lobotomized the killing game by letting everyone find the Flashback Light in Chapter 4 to begin with?
Maybe that means the logical fallacy stems from the ultimate use of the outside world motive in Chapter 5, when the truth of the outside world is used by Kokichi to demotivate the entire group. If, say, seeing the outside world led everyone to become bloodthirsty for some reason (?) then I guess that dodges the fallacy?(??????) It's just kind of a garbage motive in general... it didn't even work as a motive when Kokichi used it, and it demotivated the others. Makes you wonder why it was even included.
I guess my point is that the logic really doesn't add up in Chapter 4 and 5 in exchange for some thoughtless added drama. Y'know, typical writing issues stuff.
Um... I spent quite a while writing this one part up, and this is the view that I care about most, so I might split the others into another post, if I even do another one.
In case I don't, I'll just do a quick overview because they're really not nearly as necessary to explain in depth:
The cord switching bit. With the rest of the Virtual World segment riffing off of games and gaming knowledge, the dissolution of suspension of disbelief hit me like a truck when I was told to believe that Gonta reversed the cords and the whole thing basically ran fine, with just the one issue of memories not transferring back. I... am a modder. I type C007_Ki-bo instead of C007_Ki-Bo, the game crashes. Hell, even without being a modder, I have a drawing tablet with 3 cords and if I don't plug them in right, it won't do anything (duh). No way am I buying this.
Not a logical fallacy, but more of a story writing shortcoming. It kinda sucks that Gonta barely had a substantial role in this chapter despite being the culprit. He didn't plan the murder he committed, and he didn't defend himself for the murder he committed. I get that the idea was probably to make a case centered around Kokichi more than Gonta, but (and I say this as a Kokichi liker) we see enough of Mister Oma as it is. Too much, maybe even. (I mean Kokichi has Chapter 5. He DIES in the Chapter 5 case but still plays a role in the trial. And we're really gonna just have him take over trial 4 when Gonta isn't seen for the rest of the game?)
(content: discontent towards Kaito) Also not a logical fallacy. Maybe not that much of a fallacy at all. I might just be petty but I thought Kaito was cringe the whole time. (okay me and Seb literally had to get up, close the game, and go take a walk outside because we were losing it from everything Kaito was saying. DO YOU???? NOT KNOW WHAT A HYPOCRITE IS????????)
A bit of a shill I guess, but I did write two fanfics which were heavily influenced by my views on chapters 4 and 5, which tried to remedy these fallacies and others in V3. Canon-compliant Bloodied Hands renders Tsumugi the ultimate mastermind behind every murder (not just Rantaro's) with her dramatic meddling leading to the emergence of V3's logical fallacies, while The World is His takes the same premise, just diverging from canon such that Kokichi lives.
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lanaevyssmoved · 5 months
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i want to explore having small moments where afhiri “drops the act” as it were, but only happening in situations like. when she’s tipsy
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divinedeathbed · 1 year
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FASCINATING. THE CRAB IS A CLIMBER. SOMEONE SUFFERING FROM AWS,
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iknowicanbutwhy · 1 year
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i think i have a thing for characters on pedestals with imposter syndrome. And also a thing for characters who fell from that, or otherwise got stuck under its shadow.
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staff: our april fools joke this year is a silly feature that doesn't really do anything but give you a button to boop other users! they have to opt-in first though :)
me:
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robotpussy · 3 months
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"No protester should be able to evade justice by wearing a face covering
That's why we're banning them.
Offenders could receive up to a £1,000 fine and a month in prison."
mask off, full blown fascism
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ssalballoon · 4 months
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Mystra showed him the secrets beneath the veils. The gossamer veils first, draped across the Weave. The delicate veils next, draped across her body. 'Chosen One' she whispered, as she slipped them off completely.
poor gale :'(
- the dialogue is from ea gale's explanation about his folly
- i kinda like that she ended up looking like a mother-of-pearl inlay lacquerware!
- oh this was a subconscious choice, but Gale is sitting in seiza which is a posture for showing respect especially to elders. it's also known to be a painful position to sit in for extended periods of time, which is why it was sometimes used as a method of (morally dubious) punishment. however, experienced people can maintain this posture for much longer. food for thought :-)
- (edit: deleted this point bcs it didn't really make sense + detracted from the art a little;;)
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monstergirlclaws · 9 months
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elucubrare · 4 months
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i firmly hold that it's my duty as a reader to believe it when an author tells me at the beginning of the series that the dragons are gone forever and never coming back. but god it's a struggle sometimes.
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paper-mario-wiki · 12 days
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hey, wanna know something cool?
a little over a century ago, the polar explorer Ernest Shackleton lost the ship Endurance when attempting to make a land crossing of the antarctic.
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soon after, the ship would be crushed by the surrounding ice as it shifted, and it would sink about 10,000 feet to the sea floor.
BUT THEN
2 years ago, national geographic was able to locate the HMS endurance and found it in an incredibly well preserved state!
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the leader of the expedition, Mensun Bound, said "This is by far the finest wooden shipwreck I have ever seen. It is upright, well proud of the seabed, intact, and in a brilliant state of preservation."
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housewifebuck · 11 months
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“it’s not canon” TO YOU. they’re fucking nasty in my google docs right now
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locusfandomtime · 5 months
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compilation of all the iconic insane mumbo jumbo posts
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wanted to get them all in one place. feel free to add
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dontmakemeright · 5 months
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The urge to make him painfully hard when we're out in public.
To rub his inner thighs near his crotch while we're sitting next to each other, brush against his nipples by accident, whisper the most disgusting things into his ear, to kiss his pretty neck a second too long. To see him crumble, see his pupils dilate, his pants getting too tight.
To make him a dumb and blushy mess for me until he's not even able to talk, just waiting patiently like a good boy until I finally take him home.
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wasyago · 1 month
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well, uhmmm.... hm
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andatsea · 15 days
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Sleep not, dream not.
--
Twitter / Shop / INPRNT / Patreon
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so in an attempt to actually use positive thinking, anytime i fuck up and my brain reacts as if ive cause a minor apocalyptic event, i compare my fuck up to the 4 minute fuck up committed by the crew of the uss william d porter.
and only today, as i was having to explain what happened to my mom when i was explaining the whole comparison thing, did i realise that most people dont know about it and ive decided that needs to change because its objectively hilarious.
...which is a weird thing to say about an event that occured on a warship in 1943, specifically november 14th.
see the uss william d porter was a fletcher-class destroyer but you dont need to know what that means, just that she had guns that went bang bang and that she was escorting another ship, the uss iowa, to cairo.
while they were on their way there, they performed some gun trials like testing the anti-aircraft guns or the torpedos. and while they were running a torpedo drill, the crew of the porter managed to fire a live torpedo straight at the iowa which you know, in terms of a list of things to do while escorting a ship, shooting a torpedo at them is not on that list.
especially if the president of the united states is on board.
yeah so fdr was on board and the gun trials were actually his idea, and part of the trials was that they were conducted under radio silence.
and that means the crew of the porter couldnt just call the iowa to be like "move out the way, we accidentally shot a torpedo at you."
but they did have signal lamps and you know, the signalman on board was trained to signal this exact kind of message.
...and uh never mind, the signalman did manage to successfully tell the iowa that a torpedo was coming toward them but wasnt as successful when it came to the direction the torpedo was coming from.
not all hope is lost though because the signalman could still use the signal lamp to correct his previous mistake and-, never mind, he announced that the porter was reversing, which she wasnt.
yeah so at catastrophic mistake number 3, they broke radio silence to warn the iowa and she managed to turn out of the way just in time which meant no one got hurt. and even though the inquiry into the incident led to chief torpedoman (fantastic job title btw) lawton dawson being sentences to hard labour, fdr intervened and waved away his sentence, saying it was all an accident.
but yeah, so thats my new measure for "how much did i really fuck up?" and when i compared accidentally picking up a pencil case without a tag on it in wilko, turns out it was a very minor fuck-up. yes, the cashier had to ask another worker to grab a duplicate so they could scan the barcode, but i didnt nearly kill the president during wartime via accidental friendly fire
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