One of the funniest things about “Hatchet Town” is that over the course of three musicals and Nightmare Time, most, if not a significant number Hatchetfield residents HAVE committed murder or been accomplices/accessories to murder in at least one timeline. To the point where if you randomly accused pretty much anyone in town of being a murderer, there’s a good chance you’d be right.

'Want' in Nerdy Prudes Must Die

So, I woke up at 3am to a revelation about how I think wanting something once again plays into NPMD. We all been knew about TGWDLM and Black Fridays' use of people's wants, but what about Nerdy Prudes? (First time cooking up a theory like this lmk your thoughts!)

This musical falls on the more subtler side. The first time it's directly called out is during the summoning, when the Lords in Black are straight up telling Stephanie that she has to give up what she wants to save everyone. In that case, it was Peter.

But it goes back a lot further than that. We've established the big baddie of each Hatchetfield series tends to lure people in with what they want: Max falls right under this category of attack.

Richie gets singled once he realises what he wants, to be liked, to be needed, to be alive. He says it out loud to himself when he thinks he's alone, which is exactly how Max knew.

The same goes for Ruth: Max only kills her once she sings a whole song about wanting attention and figures out she wants to be the star of the show, the one under the spotlight instead of in the booth.

Once Peter and Stephanie come to the realization that they want each other through a whole song, cue Max, stopping the bullet so he can kill the two of them and continue his reign.

I think this attack pattern also applies to Grace, but because of that it shows the flaw of Max being used as the vessel. Max's perception of what Grace wants is skewed: he thinks she's a repressed church girl wanting to get her freak on, but also because that's what she TELLS him she wants.

She disguises her wants until the very end of the play, where she reveals her desire to purge the world of horny guys (essentially becomes the Lords in Blacks next vessel). Instead of showing her cards, she plays into what MAX wants. Max wants her, the forbidden fruit, which is exactly how she lures him to his own demise.

Not sure if this has been talked about before, but if it has, kudos to the people who beat my slow brain to it.

NPMD/Hey Melissa Theory:

The protest at the kennel was Melissa and her friends arguing that all dogs should be killed. Or that Melissa and her friends were killing too many dogs. Or even that they were protesting the lack of “dogs” like Ted in the kennels.

Webby and Wiggly Twin Theory

I haven't seen this theory in my musings of the Hatchetfield/Lords in Black lore, so if it's already cropped up I apologise and I'd like to credit it here if someone mentions it

I just wanted to raise the theory that Wiggly and Webby are twins. Initially I had thought so because of the interesting conflicting relationship of "The Lord in Black" Wiggog Y'wrath and "The Queen in White" Webby. As creatures beyond our understanding they both act as the figureheads of the Black and White respectively, and while Wiggly is the leader of the Lords in Black, Webby is their enemy. They are siblings themselves but them being twins makes the lore feel balanced. One cannot exist without the other. They are defined by each other.

Also in sketching out Webby's potential doll design, I realized that to me Wiggly's design actually makes a lot of sense. Wiggly shares the same features (the little prongs from the mouth resemble those of a spider spider! Webweaving also being Webby's biggest theme). Webby is ACTUALLY Hannah's friend in Black Friday, while Wiggly pretends he is one to her and to the Hatchetfield citizens.

I also like to think that the dialogue of Wiggly saying "Webby is a stupid bitch" is the most sibling like attack when the horrors are made each other. Like I like to imagine Webby telling Hannah that Wiggly is a deceitful little prick.

I also think that the two being twins speaks to the cosmos, and also to the rest of the Lords in Blacks. They all have the potential to do good- to be good, they even did so in Nerdy Prudes Must Die in getting rid of Max Jagerman. Yet they persist in playing with humans' lives, like when they subsequently enabled Grace Chastity. All reflect humans potential cruelty but also kindness yet they don't do any of the latter. I think part of them are trying to impress Wiggly, because they do not compare to Webby, his twin sister, because Wiggly wants deep down for there to be six Lords in Black.

Webby is what stands in the way of the Black and White expanding into our grey reality. Webby, even as the queen of the white, treasures the greyness of humanity in the silver threads she weaves across dimensions.

so we've seen otho and wiggly (i think, i havent seen BF in a while) destroy earth basically. anyone got any ideas how nibbly, blinky, and tinky could take over the world with their powers?

ok so i managed to convince @jay-draws-gays to watch Black Friday, and when she got to the part when John gets to the black and white she asks me if the lib know him personally (i think he does) then she asked, "WHAT IF HE IS A LORD IN BLACK/something like that"

and i just. HOLY SHIT.

Hey, guys!!

I would love to investigate the whole universe of Hatchetfield and receive the explanations about how the bunch of characters survived after Black Firiday, why Paul and Emma does not seem infected by alien disease in NPMD, etc.

Pleaaase send me a link to a guide I can’t really fall asleep without answers 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

If you guys liked the whole "Stephs flannel matches Peter's suspenders and bow tie" thing then this costuming detail is in tgwdlm gonna fuck you up.

When we get our first scene with Paul and Emma, the two are dressed in their respective main outfits. These are the ones people tend to associate with them.

But throughout the show, as they get closer and bond, their outfits become more and more similar. Pretty soon Emma's lost the apron

Then at the professor's house, Paul loses the jacket

and by the time McNamara is infected, Paul has his sleeves rolled up and Emma's bow tie has come undone.

At this point, the two are at their most aesthetically similar, and also the closest they've been the entire show. This is moments before the helicopter crash and their failed kiss. They remain this way for a good chunk of time...until Paul comes back

It's like some fast-paced foreshadowing. Emma remains in her changed state, the same as her character, but Paul is back to square one. He's wearing the same outfit he was when they met, and they no longer align. She doesn't know who he is anymore.

I don't know if this was intentional (and if it was, no one explained it to Jon) but it plays out so damn well.

No, because people keep acting like Grace Chastity being consumed with a lust for the power that Lords in Black provided her doesn't count as a world ending Cataclysm - but it very much does. Not only has she shown little to no empathy for others throughout the entire show and only ever felt bad for lying to authority figures and being horny - but the final song of the Musical is essentially a reprise of Max's Murder Song/Manifesto which places her as a parallel to Max. Max sings about how he's going to kill ALL the Nerdy Prudes and not once but twice tells the audience that it doesn't matter if someone is actually a Nerdy Prude because he makes the rules and gets to decide who is or isn't a nerd etc etc. Grace's take is that she is going to kill all the Dirty Dudes but she's literally singing it to a guy who has, throughout the entire musical, done nothing to indicate he's a pervy/dirty dude and only kissed her after she asked him too. Like Max, Grace Chastity doesn't actually care if someone genuinely fits the framework of her stated victimology, because she has the power so she gets to make the rules.

Honestly it's like some people didn't think about the implications.

I love forever and always, guys

So it was said in TGWDLM that Paul used to babysit Alice for Bill. But in Black Friday, Paul forgets Tim's name, and calls him Pete. What are the chances that at some point, he babysat Pete for Ted?

This has probably been pointed out already, but I thought it was a fun detail, and it makes sense!

Hatchetverse Theory: The Parallels Between Paul (TGWDLM) and Grace (NPMD):

More thoughts and parallel screenshots under the keep reading, part of my #hatchetverse theory posts. Sorry these are all awful screen shots, I'm bad at gifs, but I hope I made my point.

The screenshots are pretty self-explanatory, but the parallels between Paul and Grace, especially with what happens to their characters at the end of their respective musicals, has been living in my head rent free, and I want to talk about it.

I've seen a lot of posts that speculate that the reason Grace went crazy at the end of NPMD is because she's just that blood thirsty and willing to kill, and while her character (at least of what I've seen of her in NPMD and what I've seen of nightmare time) is certainly intense, I wouldn't quite go so far to say she's always been that willing to hurt others, even for what she believes.

In fact, after rewatching NPMD, I realized something. When the kids first go to the Waylon Place, the others are the ones suggesting ways they can violently hurt Max. Pete even calls Grace's plan "goofy" and Richie is the one who suggests beating Max up. Grace is the one who tells them that all she wants to do is teach him a lesson and scare him and rejects their more violent ideas.

But after Max dies? That's when Grace's intensity starts taking a darker turn, and it's not as noticeable as it might be in the other kids because "Grace has always been kinda weird and intense" and the show has been playing that up for laughs since the beginning. But when you look at what happens to Grace in terms of her character's choices, she's the one who suddenly pulls a "bury the bully" plan out of nowhere when she was against even beating him up just a few hours ago. She's the one who suggests lying to the cops and trying to cover up what happened. She's the one who has a prophetic nightmare after the incident at the Waylon Place. That's also the moment when she symbolically loses her WWJD bracelet (though others have already pointed that out).

And if the LIB could infect Paul with spores just because he happened to be in close proximity to the meteor, then they could probably do something similar to any of the kids in the Waylon Place (and you cannot convince me that they were not the ones who collapsed the floorboards in the Waylon Place and killed Max).

But why would they target Grace you ask? Why not one of the other kids? That's a good question. I have a few theories.

The first has to do with what I mentioned before about hatchetverse's history of Webby's powers seeming to favor kids, and the LIB powers struggling to work on kids. We don't know how old most of the kids in NPMD are exactly, but the musical makes a point to tell us several times that Grace is "only 18" (Shaprio says she's a legal adult and will be tried as an adult in court). The musical also makes a point to have this be the Homecoming Dance (not Prom), which is in the fall, so most of the senior students wouldn't have turned 18 yet. We can also make an educated guess that Stephanie has turned 18 and Pete hasn't because she sings "wake me up when you turn 18" during their song. You could combat this by asking why the LIB never address Grace during the summoning and targeted Steph instead, which is a fair point. But interestingly, if you watch Grace, Steph, and Pete during the Summoning, Grace is silent most of the song, but looks completely horrified (especially when they tell her that they want what she cherishes most), despite the fact that from our perspective, the LIB aren't talking to her. She also seems to know exactly what the LIB want from her, because the next scene she's in is when she shows up to save Steph and Pete. During the Summoning, Pete, on the other hand, seems to mostly be involved in the conversation the LIB are having with Stephanie, although Grace also seems to understand what the LIB want from Stephanie. It's possible that this was intentional on the LIB's part, since they can see every timeline (in the "Abstinence Camp" episode of Nightmare Time, Grace gets between Steph, Pete, and Lumberaxe, risking her own life so that Lumberaxe doesn't hurt them. Grace might be willing to lose her own life for what she believes, but she might not be willing to lose her friends' lives. If the LIB know this, they'd likely want to make sure Grace understands that Steph or Pete will die unless she's the one who pays the price).

They have a personal reason for wanting her. In TGWDLM, Pokey hates Paul because...well, Paul doesn't like musicals but bigger picture, Paul resists Pokey's hive mind. Why would the LIB hate Grace? Possibly because she hates evil, the devil, and sin to an extreme degree. It could be a point of pride for the LIB: "we got the guy who didn't like musicals to join our musical and brainwash the world, and we got the girl who didn't like sin to devour souls for us." I've also seen a theory that Paul has some sort of resistance to the LIB because he doesn't like musicals and in a way sort of serves as a "prophet" in TGWDLM by warning others that musicals are bad. Grace arguably serves a similar role to Max in NPMD. She suggests Max becomes a better person "before he ends up in hell", which is ironic because then Max goes on to beat up Pete, which turns the nerds against him, setting off the chain of events that eventually lead him to actually being sent to hell (the black) by Grace. I've also seen some other theories suggesting that the LIB getting Paul in TGWDLM was really about getting Emma (since she was the one who starred in a musical before), and following that logic, it's possible that the LIB killing Max at the Waylon Place was really about getting Grace, because she'd still actually be alive. The LIB might have known this would work if they knew Max and Grace liked each other, and as seen in nightmare time, Grace is willing to risk her own life for her friends, and this might be consistent across several timelines.

Speaking of sacrifice, I know I covered this with the gifs, but the fact that Paul's last act was giving up his life, and Grace's was giving up what was essentially her morality and who she was so they could save their friends, only to have themselves turned into the very monsters they tried to destroy? Absolute tragedy.

But what's also interesting to me is how this happens. The way Grace and Paul both seem to lose control of themselves. With Paul it happens in one song and is more noticeable, but with Grace, it's a lot slower, and the more bad and morally questionable stuff she does, the funnier it is, and her character has been intense and over the top from the beginning, so you almost don't notice the difference in her actions until you rewatch the show. But her and Paul asking "Who am I?" has a similar creepy vibe, the screenshots I found for those moments (pictured below) even ended up looking very similar, though with Paul, you can see more of the fight happening during the song, whereas with Grace, it's more drawn out over the course of the show with these little moments of clarity where she has a complete breakdown.

Then of course there's the whole: What do you want thing?

Why do the LIB want what Grace cherishes most? Why do they want Paul to want anything at all?

And why do they phrase it in the creepiest way possible, asking for "a peek at Paul's soul" and telling him to "give up his choice" and telling Grace that they'll get "whatever they want" and that she'll "be forever in their debt?"

Well, probably because that does seem to be what happens. The most obvious screenshot parallels are probably their final numbers in their shows, which I think speak for themselves. The only unknown is what exactly is happening with the LIB and their whole "what do you want" thing. By taking what someone wants, do they replace that "want" in the person with wanting to serve them? How does that work?

At this point, I'm not sure, and I'm too tired to continue the rant, but I'd be happy to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

I hope you enjoy Starkid fandom. Thank you for listening to my rants!

Grace and the Lords in Black: an analysis.

Okay, so, this may be obvious; although I haven’t seen anyone mention this as of yet. The link between Grace Chastity and the Lords in Black is clear, I mean we’ve all agreed that she seems to be like that, and Dirty Dudes must Die highlights her “corruption” plainly.

That being said! I think there may be more.

Firstly, the Lords in Black mention/talk to Grace first, before Peter and Stephanie (the arguable proper protagonists of this story).

Sure, Blinky’s motif is obvious, it’s of eyes, of watching and of observation. But to speak to Grace first, even if it seems (on the surface level) that it’s just to flex their omniscience and make her uncomfortable, is a little strange. Especially since they then speak mostly (only) to Steph for the rest of the song [The Summoning].

Secondly, because if that were all this wouldn’t be a very good analysis, we have her (Grace) and Nibbly being echoes of eachother.

“Swallow” and “devour” are synonymous. Both fit into Nibbly’s motif of consumption. Now, Grace could’ve said anything. Absorb, harness, control etc. I think the wording here is particular. Not exactly the same, but clearly within the same ball park.

What is exactly the same though, is Grace Chastity and Wiggly.

This may seem a bit out of left field at first, but hear me out.

In The Summoning, it is said that “Wiggly wants his Wrath”, Wrath is a vice, a sin. It may not be the exact opposite of Chastity, however Chastity is to do with restraint, whereas Wrath is very much, not so. Moreover, Wrath can be defined as ‘a great anger that expresses itself in a desire to punish someone’. Now… who else could be described as wrathful? Obviously Max. And Grace. I mean, her song is called Dirty Dudes must Die. As well as being a direct reflection of Max, it implies that she wants to harm someone. Punish someone though? Well, yes. Grace says “This is the consequence of what you’ve done!” - she must believe that death is a worthy punishment for their actions (being ‘pervs’). Thus, Wrath.

Lastly, and this is where the exactly comes in, Grace and Wiggly both say the same things. (Again, of course, I could write another analysis on how Grace and Max reflect each other beautifully by also saying the same/extremely similar things) The difference between Grace saying similar things to Max, is that she and Wiggly aren’t similar. It’s the same.

Example A) Stephy / Stephie.

Upon rewatching Nerdy Prudes Must Die and listening to the album on repeat, I noticed that no one bar these two call Stephanie: Stephie. I know Grace calls Ruth, Ruthy and Peter, Petey- so her calling Stephanie, Stephie, makes sense linguistically. That doesn’t take from the fact that Wiggly is the only other ‘person’ to use that particular moniker.

Example B) “bloody bits”

A particularly strange phrase that these two say. However, not really. The point of this analysis is to point out the links between the Lords in Black and Grace Chastity, specifically Wiggly and Grace. By pointing out the parallels in their idiolects, I have come to the conclusion that they are not only linked but INCREDIBLY similar.

Both are characters that use cutesy, almost childish language (“mommy spot” / “belly-well”) to disguise the violence, the wrath that lays beneath the surface. Wiggly (as shown in Black Friday) uses it as a facade. Throughout Black Friday and throughout The Summoning, he expresses himself as non-threatening (“We’re all pally-wals.” etc) before eventually showing what’s beneath the surface (“..deck the fucking halls!” / “We don’t give a shit about your phone!”). Both times are as abrupt as each other, showing that Wiggly has a fairly short temper. Grace doesn’t necessarily have a short temper, instead she has periods of ‘sin’, when stressed: Dirty Girl, calling “God a son of a B-Word”, smoking (after), having sex with Max, the scene of her ordering hot water etc etc. The visage, her carefully constructed facade, slips. Wether it’s because deep down she doesn’t believe in God (possibly shown in her “are you religious?” conversation with Shapiro), or that due to her upbringing she’s being confined, restrained, controlled, and this is when her ‘true self’ begins to peer through the cracks.

Either way, these are two characters who use similar themes (one of childishness, the other of purity/innocence (which can also be linked to childishness)) to cover their violence, their real selves.

Uhhh- anyway, watch Nerdy Prudes must Die on Youtube- it gave me brain worms.

Fuck it, I’m bringing out my diagrams, visual aids, and string and thumbtacks and I’m going to collect the names of every named and mentioned character in the hatchetfield series. I’m going to make CHARTS. I’m going to rewatch the series and as many livestreams as I can find. I got the digital recordings and bonus bits!

ok but man in a hurry is definitely a victim of the bastards box right?? cursed by tinky to be forever in a hurry but never knowing where he’s going?? we’re all agreed on this right??

Sort of crack, sort of genuine fan theory:

The Lords in Black really, really like Paul. Think about it, he’s in most timelines, and in most timelines we see he ends up with the woman he loves (I know that’s just a constant in all timelines) but this man’s survival rate is just insane. Pokey makes him the star of the show in TGWDLM, he’s free of Wiggly’s influence in Black Friday, and Paul-23 leads a successful uprising in Forever and Always (RIP Human Paul). Even in Hey Melissa he’s never seriously hurt (as far as I can recall) and even that crazy situation is devoid of eldritch involvement, that was just Melissa being crazy. The Lords in Black almost seem to spare him, he’s seemingly leading the Hive in Inevitable at the end of TGWDLM, I genuinely believe he’s the Lords in Black’s favourite human. There’s two reasons why I think so - either he’s a descendant of the Waylons who got everything started for the Lords (far-fetched but we know nothing about Paul’s family) or, and this is more likely - the Lords in Black are beings of sheer chaos, watching a boring, ordinary man descend into chaos in every timeline must be so different and refreshing for them to watch. Thoughts?