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derseprinceoftbd · 2 months

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This is a rant I've been meaning to get off my chest for a while, but the conception on Tumblr, AO3, and sometimes here, that Jake is capable of "teasing" Dirk, and all that implies, irks me deeply.

Let me be clear: Jake English is not self-aware. He, in Canon, never does anything resembling self-awareness, maturity, emotional boldness, or anything else that requires a spinal column. This includes apologizing to anyone, talking about his problems in a way that doesn't end up being selfish, teasing someone, particularly Dirk, or transitioning. (I maintain this especially; he does not have the boldness, maturity, self-awareness, or nerve to have transitioned his gender presentation pre-Act-6.)

He has an *understanding* of pranks, if we allow Paradox Space as evidence, but that's it. He makes *Tavros* look like a fully-roleplayed-into-Class-shift Lord.

You know what the popular Fandom perception of Jake, as a member of a DirkJake relationship, lines up with? *John*, before his main writing trait became a deep, all-consuming depression and repression thing.

Like, John’s original Act 5 and earlier characterization before his underreaction to his dad's death and the spiral that sent him down towards his current "transition would not save her" characterization is what people use for Jake (charming, funny, actually seems to have his shit together enough to maybe be transmasc (man, remember *transmasc John*?), and, most importantly, seemingly capable of dealing with the levels of vaguely sociopathic bullshit that an even-close-to-accurate Dirk would throw at him), but DirkJohn/JohnDirk is less popular, to the point of not having a consensus order, simply because Jake and Dirk are *coded* as liking each other.

I think a lot of people miss that DirkJake is fundamentally the Equius of relationships; Hussie isn't one of those writers that feels pride in finding pathos in the ridiculous, but spiteful glee and humor. He genuinely does not care if he accidentally touches people's hearts in a way that doesn't involve Dave, or *maybe* Vriska. The fact is, DirkJake is a joke relationship, which is spelled out very clearly in their conversation.

You know, their conversation. The one they have together. The time we see someone who is actual Dirk Strider, not Hal pretending, not Aranea co-opting a memory, not a Brain Ghost, talking to Jake. That time.

Yeah, that doesn't exist. DirkJohn has as much conversational basis as DirkJake.

Edit:

LESS! GAME OVER! "I FAILED"! LESS!!!

DirkJake is a joke, a long, subtle one being made on everyone who saw Dirk's affections and immediately wanted him to get together with his disabled(?) ongoing harassment victim. Hussie was having a lot of fun making it seem like Jake found it important in the Masterpiece, I'll tell you that much.

@thelifetimechannel/@geejaysmith/@clonerightsagenda did magnificently wringing blood from this stone, I really do mean that, their Alphas are genuinely written better than Canon for 3/4, but that's all it ever was; every DirkJake writer is the YouTube comments under [this video](https://youtu.be/B7bpv5xyrOY?si=wYTCFDHM5ZzOY8fp) saying Equius could ever have been more than what he was.

TL:DR

1, Jake is pathetic, and we should remember this.

2, Hussie is a jackass who hates us one and all for the sin of caring and everything he has done with this franchise since maybe EOY2 has had an ulterior motive, and we should remember this.

3, Most people who write longfics set in SBURBless AUs, whether normalcy or fantasy, and want to ship Dirk and Jake should really be shipping Dirk with John, since now that history of Dirk-Jake interactions that justifies the ship in-Universe is gone at the Author's leasure, John would have the dynamic they want, and they talk *exactly as much*.

4, If you want to trans Jake, [there's a sensible way to do that](https://archiveofourown.org/works/8619856), but there's no in-character way to make him transmasc.

5, Read DDOTA, I beseecheth of you. Like yeah the Striders are emotional to a kinda weird degree but apart from that they really got everyone down right.

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partyrockin · 3 months

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possessed by the homestuck brainrot demon of old to make this

#so hard to choose between davekat and dirkjake for the last one #but currently i'm in dirkjake brainrot hell due to all the meta i've been reading on them LOL so #homestuck #rose lalonde #dirk strider #karkat vantas #kanaya maryam #meenah peixes #the handmaid #jake english #fanart #art #meme

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borzoilover69 · 7 months

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two sets of guardians, one trailblazers for the future, the other pallbearers for the past.

light -> life, hope, drive

dark -> death, futileness, stagnancy.

while one set innovated for the future the other was stuck figuring out just how to survive the end.

#homestuck #hom3stuck #theres also shape language ARRGH #jake english #grandpa harley #bro strider #dirk strider #dave strider #alpha dave #alpha rose #rose lalonde #borzoi talks #borzoi meta #homestuck meta #something something pallbearers something something i cant get over alpha session death theme #anyways #borzoi art

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exaltior-a · 7 months

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Personally the amount of people who are either "Jake is a stupid himbo" or "Jake is actively malicious" blow my mind. No, Jake isn't stupid, and he's not evil. He's a sixteen year old who is implied to have a mental disability and/or brain damage (it's not exactly clear, Caliborn claims they have the same developmental disorder and Dirk iirc worries that Jake hit his head too much, I guess you can take either with a grain of salt but I digress), and has not had meaningful real life interactions with other human beings in years. He is in the wrong for his actions, but it feels. Purposefully ignorant to claim he's just stupid or just evil for them.

He's socially stunted. He wants to emulate heroes in movies but lacks self esteem and experience. If the alpha kids had enough time to be more fleshed out (and let's be real, if Hussie cared about Jake) this might have been explored more thoroughly. He'd never had the opportunity to learn how to cope with a relationship, how to communicate his needs, or understand that he can't control how other people perceive him like he can through a computer screen.

He doesn't know healthy boundaries because he's never had to use them, and this goes both ways (allowing his friends to sexualise him and treat him like an object, as well as constantly complaining about his relationship with Dirk to Jane) Like yeah he does run away instead of communicating with Dirk and yeah he does dump all his problems on Jane. I love Jane, but one of her problems is her bottling up her feelings and people pleasing until everything blows up. She should have told him off much sooner, and while he was being a dick, it was partly because she allowed him to feel like it was okay to do, since she never told him it wasn't after the first few times or when she was starting to get aggravated.

His problems with Dirk are a little more complicated because we're never actually shown their relationship or how it broke down, but from what we can gather, Jake felt overwhelmed by Dirk's intensity and decided to ignore him rather than tell him try and avoid confrontation but leading to Dirk being frustrated and breaking up with him. Dirk claims he feels like he bullied Jake into a relationship, and though I personally think that's him making it seem worse than it was, it does mean that Dirk probably was trying to go too fast. I've best heard it is Jake being an introvert pretending to be an extrovert.

This is not to say I don't think people can't dislike or even hate Jake, but it's like. Idk. Misinterpreting a character and disliking that version of them is a little redundant to me.

#homestuck #dirkjake #jake english #dirk strider #jane crocker #character meta #homestuck meta #this is kind of in response to those people in the “worst homestuck character” tourney lol #the notes on those posts are atrocious especially the ones about the alpha kids. especially roxy #god if you think roxy is a perfect sngel i assume you haven't read the comic #btw im not mad at the person running the polls or whatever for that they seem fairly chill #its just that homestuck fans are sometimes stupid #and lack reading comprehension and critical analysis #long post #ummm jake dislikers ur fine but please. be correct about him if you're going to not like him #ok bye lol

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assholepants · 2 years

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I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out why Dirk's splinters always end up being manipulative and abusive. Because, as another post on here mentioned, when you look at the actions of Dirk himself in homestuck proper, he's actually just a sweet kid who is very hard on himself and cares about his friends.

Everyone is well aware that one of Dirk's major character motifs is control. But pretty much all of the examples we see of Dirk, himself, being controlling, are all directed inwards, as he attempts to maintain a frankly unhealthy level of self control. There's lots of little examples but the most glaringly obvious one is his reaction to Calliope's juju lollipop. It's also evident in the way he insists on taking person responsibility for his splinters, despite having little to no influence over them, and in many cases, having never even met them.

So what happens, if you take a guy who maintains unhealthy levels of self control, and take away his sense of self?

Because all of Dirk's splinters are well aware that they are not the 'Original' so to speak. Even Bro, I think, is aware that he is not a protagonist in the narrative. It's pretty heavily implied across cannon that the guardians have a certain level of awareness of the game, to varying degrees, and that they are aware that their role is Guardian to the protagonists. The splinters know they're not the 'true' Dirk, and so a huge part of their identity exists outside of the realm of their control.

And I think that's where issues start to come in. The nature of the existence of these splinters forces them to build a sense of self that is defined by other people. And so their attempts at self control can never be fully internalised like Dirk's, and end up as manipulation and abuse of the people they have constructed their identity around.

Brain Ghost Dirk is fundamentally Made Of Jake. Jake is a core part of his sense of self, because he literally doesn't exist outside of Jake's mind. So in order to maintain self control, he manipulates Jake.

Lil hal manages to get involved in a lot of different things, but all of these actions boil down to manipulating Dirk's life. Because his entire sense of self is Dirk. So in order to maintain self control, he needs to control Dirk. I think Dirk was right in that hal was dangerous, but I think he was wrong to think that denying him a physical form would be safer. I think if hal had been allowed to have a physical body at an earlier stage, he could have begun developing his own identity, outside of Dirk, which would lessen his reliance on control over Dirk's life.

Bro is like. The reason I'm making this post basically because I can't stop thinking about it. Obviously Dave is the subject of Bro's control issues. Bro is aware he is not a protagonist in the narrative. His function is to Be Dave's Guardian, and so his sense of self is firmly rooted in Dave. But it's done in such a different way to how we see the other splinters behave. Dirk is a really fucking smart kid, and so his splinters generally tend to be pretty good at calculated manipulation. But Bro isn't particularly calculated as far as we can see. He's kind of a fucking mess. His abuse is far more physical and impulsive and far less wordy. He's controlling Dave, moulding him into the kind of protagonist Bro thinks he should be. But it's not elaborate and calculated. And THAT'S where Lil Cal, and by association, Caliborn come in.

There's obviously huge amount of debate and like 172784 different theories about how much influence Caliborn had over Bro, and how much responsibility he holds for Dave's abuse. Personally, I think Bro would have always ended up manipulating and abusing Dave in some way, in the same way that BGD manipulates Jake and Lil Hal manipulates Dirk. The underlying cause of Bro's abuse comes from the same control issues as the other splinters and I think it does a disservice to Dirk, as a character with flaws, to insist that Bro's abuse was 100% down to puppet manipulation. But I do think that Caliborn influenced the method. The random violence, the Saw style psychological horror, the impulsiveness, the obsession with sex and masculinity. All very Caliborn methods.

What I'm interested in is if Bro knew what Cal was. I think it's very easy, and completely plausible to say that he came across this puppet due to Paradox Space Is Just Like That, and fell under its influence without realising it. But if he's a Dirk splinter I just don't buy it. He doesn't allow himself to fall under the influence of Calliope's Juju, so why should his splinter fall under the influence of Caliborn's?

It sounds counterintuitive but stick with me, I think Bro allowed himself to be influenced by the puppet, because it gave him a sense of control. Being a guardian made him a side character. Side characters are often much less developed than the protagonists. In the case of homestuck, they don't even get to have a face. How do you form a coherent sense of self without any development from the narrative? He can channel that into controlling Dave, but at the end of the day that doesn't allow him any more agency than the other guardians. Bro knows he can't be a protagonist. But allowing himself to be influenced by the puppet places him in proximity to the main antagonist of the entire comic. And Caliborn influences EVERYTHING. He's woven through every part of the narrative, his existence sends ripples through every action we see.

Characters that are influenced by Caliborn tend to be integral to the shape of the narrative. Gamzee being an obvious example, but also those who communicate with Doc Scratch, like Vriska and Rose and even the reader themself. I just think it would be interesting if Bro knew what Lil Cal was, and allowed himself to be influenced by it anyway, in an attempt to gain even a little more control over the narrative, and by extension, himself.

#Welcome to my Bro Essay #homestuck #Bro strider #Dirk Strider #Lil hal #Brain Ghost Dirk #Homestuck meta #tw abuse #Also I know Cal isn't technically Caliborn's Juju but you know what I mean

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disguisedcheezed · 3 months

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it's so funny to me when people just believe that john is straight because he said "i'm not a homosexual" once because

1. you are believing the words of a 13 yr old who was 12 the day before.

2. people forget that he's 13 when he said that, and that he is not old enough for a proper romantic relationship.

3. john egbert doesn't think. in fact, he'd rather not AT ALL. like. EVER.

4. why would he think about ever liking a girl? can't he just say it out right if he does?

also, this part in a nutshell:

karkat: DO YOU WANNA BE IN A RELATIONSHI-

john: i am not a homosexual. 👍

5. god king of repression had you fooled FOOL.

and the most ironic part is that it's the same shit homophobic parents say like "yeah, but when you were 13 you said you liked girls soooo"

#homestuck #john egbert #homestuck analysis #hs analysis #hs meta #IT HAS BEEN 14 FUCKING YEARS #man :/#there is literally no need to post about this only if homestuck fans could actually read #john egbert was queer this whole time? the horror!#literally what his gag was all about lmao #argument happened in twt about johns gender/sexuality instead of saying that hes just queer couldve just ended everything #LMAO #a twt qrt mentioned that this post was about defending my yaoi ship? which is literally not? theyr using it as a reason hate on me lol #i love john egbert so much its painful. dirk strider can die because he failed ME so idrc

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cringefail-clown · 5 days

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hear me out, but i dont think alt!calliope is that much concerned about canonicity of the story all that much. theres some deeper motive going on here

when john defeats lord english (and gets promptly unsubscribed from life, since his narrative purpose is completed) and davepeta hurls him into the black hole, on the other side in candyverse alt!calliope waits for him to appear and, when he does, devours him to gain the power-up needed to escape the timeline and goes on a hunt for ult dirk to stop him from starting another sburb session

and this is where lord english storyline should be put to rest, but its not as simple as that. this dudes like a cockroach, you just cant get rid of him, he just doesnt disappear, hes always there no matter what, looming over the narrative. and, now thats he was absorbed into alt!calliope, whats left of him? his masterpiece self now residing inside ult dirk

and dirk always had a close connection to caliborn - cal liked dirk the most from all the alpha kids, chatting with him regularly, hal - dirks splinter - became a part of cal and also doc scratch, who was also the host that brough lord english into the universe after beta kids created the green sun (which he also manipulated them into)

basically what im trying to say, dirk wanting to start another sburb session isnt really about maintaining their connection to canon, but it also is about it. caliborn lords over the alpha timeline, and is intrinsically tied to the canon. hes always there, hes already there, and he will always come back. and dirk is narratively tied to the one guy that was responsible with brining him into the story. excellent host, you might say

the point of starting another session is ultimately to bring caliborn back to life, and this is the goal of ult dirk, as the one whos carrying the last splinter of his soul. and thats why alt!calliope is so focused on stopping him. its all about the powerstruggle between the two cherubs, once again

(would also like to point out that rose got fooled twice into bringing lord english into the narrative - once through doc scratch manipulating her into believing deploying the tumor would destroy the green sun, and now through dirk manipulating her into believing starting another session will stop the timeline from deteriorating. girl cannot catch a break jesus)

tldr ult dirk is acting as another doc scratch, and the goal is to revive lord english

but tHATS JUST A THEORY-

#homestuck beyond canon #homestuck meta #dirk strider #ult dirk #lord english #caliborn #calliope #alt calliope #long post #considering what happens to doc in canon... this doesnt bode well for dirk huh #will his head explode again #the hemoanarchist post about lord english being a splinter of dirk only further solidified this to me #maybe ill be proven wrong but i mean. the evidence is there isnt it

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thunderstruckcincerary · 8 months

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STOP INFANTILIZING JAKE ENGLISH. STOP TREATING HIM LIKE HE IS FREE OF CONSEQUENCES.

Jake English is such an interesting character because the way he is written infuriates me (in a good way). I saw a particular text post saying basically that Jake English did nothing wrong and that Jane is an asshole for being upset at him. This is just… Wrong. I think a lot of people in general like to try and make Jake seem like he cannot do any wrong because he has neurodivergent traits and is heavily implied to be neurodivergent. This is not to say Jake was entirely in the wrong in some situations, but neither were his friends when they became upset at him. Because, guess what Tumblr, they are teenagers and teenagers are flawed as fuck.

The main thing I would like to talk about is the pages where Jane yells at Jake (starts at page 5521).

While obviously Jane’s passive aggressiveness did not help the situation whatsoever, she was very clearly upset at the fact that one of her only friends forgot about her birthday. After he realizes he forgot, he starts making up excuses. Obviously his forgetfulness is not his fault but I feel like Jane’s slight is definitely not unjustified.

Not to mention he doesn’t even say “happy birthday” to her once during the conversation and instead makes stupid quips and proceeds to dump his relationship problems onto her. Before then though, he goes on a huge ramble to try and avoid his problems (aka what he was initially going to talk about with Jane).

During his conversation with Jane where he should be moving on as he’s decided to, it’s obviously complete filler of a conversation where he repeated over and over how Jane is 16. He’s only talked to her about his issues for so long it’s obvious that he doesn’t know how to initiate in a normal conversation with her anymore. When she finally gives him the go ahead to say it (likely because she was tired of a nonsense filler conversation) he all too eagerly tells it as if he was just biding his time for when she’d let him speak. It’s an asshole move really.

Obviously communicating with your friends and being there for them when they are struggling is good, but whenever Jake seems to talk to Jane, it is only really about his problems. Not to mention, he never talks to the person he’s having issues with (majority of the time Dirk) and instead ghosts them for weeks on end.

Not to mention he’s the one to push her into the conversation.

If you actually read the conversation you will also notice that her messages become more sparse and short while Jake’s get longer while he rambles.

When Jake says “laying low” he means ignoring and avoiding Dirk’s attempts to actually try and talk. Not to mention he also insults Dirk by saying he is “needy” and that essentially saying he is tired of Dirk’s company.

And here we fucking are folks, the bread and fucking butter of this whole convo, the shit and jam. Saying that Dirk is annoying and that his “paranoid prophecy” (you know, the one about all of his friends hating him?) is going to come true, aka saying that he does hate Dirk and no longer even wants to interact with him. And guess what? Jake is not even trying to communicate with Dirk on the matter and is instead dumping all this shit ON THEIR FRIEND.

Anyways, let’s skip to when Jane starts getting upset.

In this scene, Jake is practically ignoring her until she basically begins screaming at him. Not to mention the two last messages from Jake are extremely dismissive and so incredibly un-self aware.

Again with his strange quips and being weirdly self deprecating and pity-ing towards himself.

You can very clearly tell she’s upset, reclaiming something she let be their thing but changing it to just hers. Instead of doing the rational thing which would be to apologize, continue this at a later date or ask what you can do to make it up, he focuses on the semantics of the phrase, trying to come up with a new one. This is very obvious that he’s avoiding the topic because he’s uncomfortable with the thought of facing these issues.

After that, on page 5528, she TELLS him the issue and proceeds to keep doing the thing that’s making her UPSET.

She then freaks out again and then Jake finally tries to do something smart by insisting that they talk about it tomorrow (something JANE insisted on EARLIER) and then when she gets more upset and Jake proceeds to basically Jane not to be upset (“Aw come on jane. be a sport.”)

TLDR; stop woobifying Jake English and acknowledge the fact that he also fucks up, just like his friends.

#homestuck #jake english #jane crocker #if you don’t like jane crocker i do not like you #but seriously stop treating him like he is free of consequences because he is neurodivergent #dirk strider #homestuck meta

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tipsygnostalgy · 3 months

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"It was never that serious," said Rose Lalonde calmly. — a deranged rant on update rose + philosophy

now that rose has officially hopped onto the "nothing matters" track of things i'm inclined to believe faux-absurdism is a sleeping agent in the strilondian neuroticism paradigm moreso than a real plot point but yeah anyway i have mixed feelings

on one hand i can definitely see why people don't like her / think she's ooc. the classic process of "cause major change in a character" goes inciting incident -> development -> big blowout moment demonstrating the change (appropriated + bastardized from mr freytag himself), and in my personal opinion the comic jumped the gun on this one? we get the inciting incident (candy timeline's irrelevancy) and both irl timeline and character arcwise are plunged straight into the blowout with very little time in between. there's a tiny hint with the light symbol playing a role (more on this later) but for the most part it feels sudden and unjustified if you're insane about rose + understand sufficient epilogues metaphilosophy + and are coded specifically to like this type of shit you Get Exactly What's Going On and fucking dig it. if you don't, you think they've put her through a meat grinder and i can see both

on the OTHER. dear god i'm sucking on the sweet teats of knowledge and absurdism like a baby at the bath. her swapping her constant need of "why" to "why not" and both rose's constant struggle with Light mixing with the irrelevancy of candy and coalescing in one big idgaf war except.

except on the third hand it's worth mentioning that she's also half-assing absurdism so bad that it gets pathetic. her last line "I knew you would forgive me anyway" actually solidifies this arc as one big tantrum that they plan on developing into Not A Thing (hopefully) because she doesn't tell kanaya "I knew it wouldn't matter." the forgiveness is what she focuses on. the forgiveness matters. kanaya still matters to her whether this dumbass light player is consciously aware of this or not and i think ironically KANAYA knows this better than she does which is part of her saying she refuses to mediate this one. on a rosemary level this is jaw-dropping on a character level BOOOO

MAKE HER ABSURDIST! make her sit there and do things not for the sake of kanaya but literally only to do them. make her sit there and genuinely believe the only obligation in reality is to live it. dirk fails at being a true absurdist too he starts injecting meaning into life like there's motherfucking nothing and rose actually acknowledging there's zero meaning whatsoever but living anyway and in that process learning to love life (juxtaposes jake's adventurer) would juxtapose her to him but NOOOOOO she has to sit there and go Well there's no meaning to Life. It was Never that serious. Fuck you. but then refuse to kill herself (thereby proving camus right once again) then now what. now What. Ohhhh "nothing" matters cool then die. dirk's suicide was meaningful because he broke that formula okay he went There's no meaning to life? Ok. then immediately hung himself he DEVOURED that sequence he subverted absurdism back into existentialism which is cool but ROSE COULD PERPENDICULAR THAT!

#homestuck #rose lalonde #homestuck meta #homestuck analysis #dirk strider #hs

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kabutoden · 3 months

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ok so i been thinking like. so i got into homestuck when i was like 13 right. i was a little dumb in a lotta ways but one thing i never hear talked about:

Davesprite + Dave Dirk + Hal Bro + Dave

these three relationships were supposed to be iterations of each other, right??? davesprite has a weird kinda mentor relationship with dave, but he's been transformed to a side character. he's also literally a couple months older than dave and thats changed him significantly. he speaks in orange and is stabbed in the same place as bro. on the other hand, multiple times it's mentioned that Hal is more similar to being 13 when dirk is 16, making him the 'younger brother.' dirk sees hal as a poor imitatiom despite hal vibrantly and angrily being their own person, keeps hal trapped, and nearly physically breaks him. it's one of dirks scariest moments and feels like an iteration of bro's bad treatment of dave.

i just dont see it talked about? idk if anyone has other comparisons stuff to add it fascinates me.

#dave strider #hal #homestuck #dirk strider #homestuck meta

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charmikarma · 5 months

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Breath as Influence and John in the Epilogues

Breath is probably one of the better understood aspects. “What is it?” someone asks – and the whole fandom is like, “Oh, Breath is about freedom and wind and detachment.” Which I don't disagree with. But I think most people miss a key piece of it – Breath as influence.

I'm no seasoned classpector, but I am a Mage of Breath, so I feel like I have a deep and personal understanding of Breath, particularly because of how it has manifested in my life. Yeah, I know, claiming I'm an authority on the subject because of my self-imposed alignment within a fake typology system makes me sound like an asshole. But I'll have to ask you to trust me, because if I start talking about my own experiences, I'll sound like even more of an asshole.

Anyway, let's kick this off with the official description of Breath, per the Extended Zodiac:

In summary: the Breath-bound are flexible, driven, detached, and maybe a little self-centered. Also, other people tend to get caught up in their personal development, which tends to make them good leaders. But the most important thing here for the point I'm making is this:

others ... feel inspired by them.

This word, inspired, has been rolling around in my brain for the past few weeks, because of its connection to Breath. Hey, did you know that “inspire” comes from Latin spirare, meaning "breathe"? And if we include the Latin prefix in-, it becomes "breathe into."

The Breath-bound have an ability to breathe into, or inspire others. They're not aware of it – after all, they are just living their lives for themselves. But wherever they go, they are inspiring people. Or, more accurately, they are influencing people. Actually, the influence of Breath goes beyond just people. I could even get meta with it (and I will. I apologize in advance). But let's start small for now.

Tavros Nitram

So, Tavros. Page of Breath. Pretty much all of Tavros's contributions to Homestuck as a story happen as a result of someone doing something to him. Vriska paralyzes him, which kickstarts the whole FLARP cycle of revenge arc. And again when the truce is broken in Act 5 Act 2, it is because Vriska kills Tavros. If this doesn't sound like influence to you, you're right. Tavros has very little influence. He's a Page, after all, and if there's one thing I know about Pages, it's that they're weak as shit until they reach their "true potential," which is pretty much always something stupidly overpowered. Y'know, like Jake overpowering Jade's first guardian powers. That was pretty batshit, I'd say.

But Tavros's contributions don't end there. He actually does reach his true Page-y potential right at the very end of Homestuck, when he gathers an army of ghosts – honestly, probably every single ghost in the furthest ring – by just talking to them. Was this something of a punchline to a very long joke? Probably. But it is also a pretty good example of the kinds of things Breath players typically do.

On a meta level, though, this argument kind of falls apart, because... As far as I can tell, the army of ghosts doesn't really do anything. Nothing important, anyway. Lord English's defeat is pretty much entirely at the hands of John, Dave, Davepetasprite^2, and alt!Calliope in the body of Jade, as described in the Epilogues. The ghost army just isn't relevant, in the end.

But you know what is relevant? Vriska.

Half the people reading this just groaned, I can feel it. Why are we talking about Vriska, a Light player, on a post about Breath?? I hear your question and I raise you this: Why the fuck is Vriska so obsessed with Breath players???? Personally, I think it's because she has an innate sense for their passive ability to decide what's relevant.

But before we get into Vriska, let's talk about John.

John Egbert

John, Heir of Breath. The protagonist of the story. In the context of my thesis of "Breath as influence," isn't it interesting that the protagonist is a hero of Breath? And even beyond that, he's an Heir, a class typically interpreted as "becoming" their Aspect, or "inheriting" it. If you find my argument compelling, you could even say John is the influence that drives the story. Which is exactly what a protagonist does - after all, what is a story without a protagonist?

This question is actually addressed in Homestuck, kind of. At some point in Act 4, Terezi manipulates John into visiting his denizen early, which gets him killed. The story is left without its protagonist, and progress grinds to a screeching halt. Jade doesn't enter the Medium and presumably dies. The reckoning never happens. Dave and Rose are trapped in a doomed timeline. They lose contact with the trolls. For what is a world without the breeze, without air, but a place of complete standstill? The story needs John to continue. Okay, it needs Rose and Dave and Jade just as much. But it's interesting that the story makes a point of John's death being the turning point that makes this particular timeline doomed.

Okay, sorry for the wait. It’s Vriska time. Vriska's driving motivation is to be relevant. She does everything in her power to steal the spotlight, which may or may not be related to the fact that she's a Thief of Light. Again, I'm not an experienced classpecter. I only really have a surface level understanding of Light. But I'm getting off topic here.

In Act 5 Act 2, Vriska starts talking to John. Why? Well, partially because she wants to compete with Terezi, who is talking to Dave. But there's also the fact that she wants to be the force responsible for Bec Noir. And also for John reaching god tier. And everything relevant really??? She's really fucking good at being relevant, I'll give her that. Or at least presenting the illusion of relevance, but that's a big topic that I think I should save for another day. Another essay, maybe. The point here is, John has a tremendous amount of influence over Things That Happen just by existing, and Vriska knows it. Maybe she torments Tavros because she senses the same sort of potential in him, but that's probably a stretch.

In any case, this is baby shit. There's better evidence than this. Let’s talk retcon powers.

You could argue that the retcon powers are separate from John's abilities related to his classpect, and on some level you'd be right. But in a game that "knows" everything that is going to happen, I have to question if extraneous powers like this are taken into consideration when Sburb "decides" what classpect it gives a player. I feel similarly about Jade's First Guardian powers. Teleportation is a pretty space-y power, in my opinion. And definitely one that... "breaks rules," I guess. Among all the other things First Guardians get to do. Once again, I'm no classpector. But Jade getting access to First Guardian powers upon reaching God Tier strikes me as very Witch of Space-y. I feel similarly about John's retcon powers - they strike me as very Heir of Breath-y.

And not just because I view Breath as influence, though that is definitely the most obvious way the retcon powers could be interpreted as Breath-y. Even on a surface level, they're pretty Breath-y. When John first talks to Roxy, he gives a whole spiel about everything he's been to up until this point, most of which is obscured by "blah blah blah." But little phrases come through occasionally, and when he starts talking about his brand new retcon powers, he uses the phrase "UNSTUCK FROM CANON." Which sounds a lot to me like "freedom from the narrative." But maybe more telling is the fact that John's quest as an Heir of Breath requires that he use his retcon powers. Getting rid of the oil, freeing the fireflies - his quest as established at the very beginning was always intended (in universe at least; I can't speak for Hussie's intentions) to be solved by his retcon powers.

So retcon powers are at the very least Breath-adjacent. What’s that got to do with Breath as influence? I’m sure you see where I’m going with this. Retcon powers are basically the ability to do whatever the fuck you want to any point of any timeline. I’d call this influence but I’d sound silly, actually. It goes way beyond influence. It’s way less subtle. I guess you could call direct intervention like this influence at its most powerful. Well, almost. There’s one step above this that John never really taps into. Which brings us to...

The Epilogues

For better or for worse, I fucking love the Epilogues. I think Candy, on its own, is a fantastic and surreal deep dive into a mind high on depression. And as for Meat, I’m an absolute sucker for metafiction and narrative fuckery. I eat that shit right up. My favorite anime is Princess Tutu, etc., etc. This is your warning: Yes, this section will contain evidence toward my claim that Breath is influence. It also doubles as an Epilogues analysis. It kind of turns into one at the end. Sorry, but I needed to get it out of my system.

So, in case you missed it, the step above retcon powers that John never taps into is direct narrative control, like we see Dirk engaging in throughout the Meat side of the Epilogues. The fact that Dirk is revealed to be the narrator of Meat begs the question: who is narrating Candy? It’s never outright stated, but it’s probably alt!Calliope. Unlike Dirk, alt!Calliope doesn’t have an agenda, as far as we’re aware. So why is Candy so fucked up and weird? Why is everyone out of character? I know this comes as a shock, but: it’s probably John’s passive influence over the narrative.

Before the Epilogues even begin, John’s been wasting away in his house all day, every day. He’s depressed as hell. Sort of dissatisfied with how artificial and "perfect" Earth C is. Some have suggested he also feels disconnected from the post-retcon versions of his friends, and I think this holds some merit. It would explain why he feels disconnected from reality in Candy.

(Candy, 11)

Depression colors your view of reality. It darkens some parts, brightens others. People who look happy will appear so to an unsettling degree. Fucked up things will appear even more fucked up. Depression ups the contrast, if you will. And that’s pretty much what happens in Candy. Jane’s pretty bad in Meat, but she’s like a billion times worse in Candy. Jade causes some awkward moments in Meat, but she is pretty much a sex pest in Candy. The positive parallels are a bit harder to find, since Meat pretty much sucks too, but you could speculate that John perceives Rosemary to be happier together than they actually are, so they’re, like, uber happy together in Candy and raising a daughter and shit. It is John’s warped perception of reality that in turn warps it beyond recognition.

This isn’t just me theorizing, by the way. There’s pretty compelling evidence to suggest that this idea is accurate to what is happening. It’s pretty clear in a conversation between (Vriska), who has just arrived on Earth C via the black hole in the furthest ring and her descendant/clone Vriska (aka Vrissy in HS:BC). The two of them stare up at the sky, pointing out clouds and what they are shaped like, when (Vriska) has a realization.

(Candy, 37)

John’s influence over the reality is so absolute, even the clouds bend to his will. I think Vriska only notices it because she’s a new arrival to Johntown. It isn’t long before she’s absorbed into the John-ness of the timeline. And then, she goes on to say exactly what I’ve been saying this whole time. Remember earlier, when I said Vriska knew that John had an incredible amount of influence over Things That Happen?

(Candy, 37)

Yeah. That wasn’t speculation.

The last thing she says, though, that he’d be relevant even if he was dead, is actually a reference to Meat. So let’s talk about it!

As we know, Meat is narrated by Dirk. Dirk’s narrative style is a lot of fun for me, personally. He’s sassy, kind of an asshole, and has no time for bullshit. The second John puts that meat in his mouth, he gets to work, pulling the strings of his little puppet show.

(Meat, 1)

He wastes no time putting words in John’s mouth, writing him out of the story of Earth C as quickly as possible. It’s almost with a sense of urgency that he pushes John to complete his mission. Which is probably necessary, seeing as the sanctity of canon relies on him going back to tie up the loose end that is Lord English. But I think Dirk has ulterior motives. I don’t think Dirk has the ability to impose his will so overbearingly with John around, because for some reason, John’s power of passive influence prevents him from doing so. Is John more powerful than Dirk, even after his ascension to Ultimate Selfhood? Maybe. I certainly think so.

But John’s pretty gullible. He’s easily influenced. He doesn’t have the same safeguard around his own mind, for some reason. Or maybe he does, and it’s just taken Dirk this long to crack him? This is speculation at this point. Not important.

So Dirk eventually kills John. Why? Well, first of all, it’s harder to control the narrative with him around. Though I speculate that’s not very important to Dirk anymore since he fucks off to who knows where around when John comes back. I think, more likely, Dirk finds John’s influence on the narrative unsavory. I mean, just look at Candy. What an absolute disaster of a timeline. Maybe his awareness is such that he knows that letting John live will result in a similar degradation of his friends’ personalities as he knows them. I can’t really say one way or another. It’d explain why he wants John’s body on the ship with him, though. Y’know, to make sure he never gets revived. And yes, he wants him on that ship. He pretty much tells Terezi outright to captchalogue his body before convincing her to join him.

(Meat, 35)

There’s one problem, though. I don’t think John being dead even erased his influence on the narrative?

(Meat, 36)

Right there at the end:

The gentle breeze is all she can hear. It’s louder than my voice, and in some understated way, makes my case for me more persuasively.

I don’t think there’s any other way to read this than the breeze representing John. This is a literal manifestation of John’s influence. I guess it could be symbolic – like Terezi doing a “what would John do?” kind of thought process. But I dunno, Dirk doesn’t strike me as that kind of narrator. Besides... It’s a little too on the nose. Say what you will about the Epilogues, but I believe a great amount of care went into them. This certainly isn’t a throwaway line.

Conclusion

Okay, sorry. I really went off the deep end into Epilogues Analysis Land there. You may have noticed that I didn’t talk about Homestuck: Beyond Canon. That’s partly because I haven’t gotten there in my reread, but mostly because I’m not yet convinced that it has – or will have – nearly the level of plot consistency of its predecessors. We’ll see, I guess.

In any case... Breath as influence, huh? There’s probably more evidence for this hidden away somewhere. I probably could have talked about Rufioh. I didn’t want to though. I also probably could have pointed out the word inspire from the Extended Zodiac thing and called it a day, but instead I blacked out and wrote this. Weird!

If you read all, uh... *checks word count* 2.7k words of this??? Jesus fuck. If you read all this, thank you for reading. I’m open to feedback! I’d love to discuss some of this more! Especially the Epilogues stuff. I have a million thoughts. Bye!

#homestuck #homestuck epilogues #john egbert #tavros nitram #dirk strider #vriska serket #homestuck analysis #homestuck meta #classpect #classpect analysis #breath aspect #mine #will i ever write that vriska essay? the world may never know #thx yall

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