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gffa · 1 year

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I'm very curious, and sorry if you've answered this before but, how do you think an AU where Ani does not fall could happen?

The solutions I've seen in fic are mostly three: Palps dies (disappointingly rarely via Zillo beast); Obikin get together and clear up their disagreements/Ani comes clean about the Tattoine massacre and together they figure out Palps is the sith lord and prepare the order to face him/prevent order 66; or something happens that makes Ani realize his mistakes and ask for help (something that's somehow more of a wake-up call than Padmè begging him to stop and Obi Wan trying to talk sense into him). Shmi not dying is often part of all 3 options but I've never seen it alone changing Ani's fate and I don't think it would either.

I love the prequels, but Ani falling makes me sad because he starts as such a kind boy (though he struggles with attachment and later fear) but as a young adult he already has these massive flaws that seem insurmountable and he seems doomed to fall no matter what happens. So I think a lot about how could Ani not have fallen, in a close-to-canon AU? Palps dying, of course, but that doesn't feel like an emotionally satisfying story to me. Obikin getting together isn't (though I love them!) the story Lucas wanted to tell (disregarding that Ani not falling wasn't the story he wanted to tell either). And the third option I just don't buy.

What do you think? Is Ani doomed by the narrative, and no small change could have saved him, and a big deus ex-machina event is needed so Palps dies/Obikin get together/Ani comes to his senses?

Sorry if this is a bit rambly!

Hi! I've given this thought before and I generally come down to--once we set aside that Anakin had to fall, because that's the story being told--that I'm with George Lucas on this, that Anakin's fall is down to his unwillingness to accept that life is transitory, that life changes, that you have to let go, instead of trying to possess things. That is the issue that has to be solved, so any fix-it AU has to stem from that, in my mind. One instance is, as Lucas said, if Anakin had been found by the Jedi earlier, he would have been trained to love people without becoming attached to them, but that's changing more than what I think you want to change. For me, my answer is usually pretty boring--as much as I love reading pairing fic with fix-its and I roll with the way an author sets things up, I generally don't believe that a romantic relationship would have fixed Anakin, not even a healthily balanced one. Anakin's problem is that he was so afraid of losing people, of living with that loss, that he clung to the ones he loved, putting him in a relationship just hurtles him down the same path as in canon. The best way for him imo is to get rid of Palpatine, which doesn't take away Anakin's issues, but it gives him breathing room to grow in a healthier way, to not have that constant temptation and seductive whisper dripping poison in his ear. It gives him the space to slowly come to trust the Jedi ways, because I very much do think that Anakin believed in the Jedi ways, he just couldn't get over himself when it was his own fears on the line. The way he teaches Ahsoka, he works to help her to let go of her attachments, he tells her exactly that when she's on Onderon. He teaches that to Rex when they're looking for Echo on Skako Minor. He believes in the Jedi ways, he has a good heart, he wants to do the healthy, balanced thing. He just can't get past that last, most terrifying hurdle. In a galaxy where he has more breathing room, where he doesn't have Palpatine driving a wedge between him and the Jedi, preying on his insecurities, he has the time to slowly do the self-examination necessary to grow into the person that he had the potential to be. And it's actually my favorite one, because I think it sticks closest to the heart of Lucas' Star Wars and the Force and the Jedi. That it's about learning to let go, to have a lifetime of discipline and work on yourself, to look inside and acknowledge your feelings and let them pass beyond you, that you have to do the hard work yourself and there's no shortcut to a better self. You have to work at it. I genuinely believe that Anakin could have gotten there without Palpatine. That doesn't mean his choices aren't his own, I've planted my flag hard on that hill, but that doesn't mean that Palpatine didn't fuck him up hardcore and, without his influence, in the events in Anakin's life where Palpatine's not a direct influence, he actually generally fares pretty well. When Palpatine isn't around, Anakin rises to the potential in him, he reaches out and does good, he accepts the help he's offered, like Anakin Skywalker had so much good in him, and if he hadn't been so tempted by Palpatine's siren song of "your feelings make you special", then I believe he would have gotten to a really good place with himself. But it's one I see as an internal journey of self-discovery, rather than being magically fixed by an external change. Getting rid of Palpatine is pulling the knife out of his side, but Anakin still has to heal the damage himself. Whether that happens during ROTS (harder, but still doable) or when he was younger, I think you have to truly get rid of Palpatine's existence, not just put distance there, but that Palpatine has to not be an option at all. Then Anakin will do the work himself.

#anakin skywalker #sheev palpatine #meta

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witchersgoldenbard · 2 years

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I'm one of the people who still feels fine about geraskier post-s2. super not here to tell you you're wrong, you are absolutely entitled to feel however you feel about it! just thinking out loud a bit because you got the gears turning. I think it didn't bother me because... honestly imo they did take steps towards healing? at the end of s1 they were completely broken up, and there was plenty of room for fluffy fix-it fic, but they were emphatically not in a good place with each other; they broke up and then we never saw jaskier again. in s2, geralt has admitted that he needs jaskier, and that he made a mistake, and jaskier obviously still cares incredibly deeply for geralt. there's definitely a lot that they need to work through to heal fully, but in s1 most of their communication was... not actually especially emotionally honest? it was cuter and lighter because s1 as a whole was cuter and lighter, but most of it is still geralt insulting jaskier and blowing him off, and the positive aspects of the interactions are subtext that we assume jaskier understands, since he's so loyal to geralt (or we don't assume it and work out his issues with it in fic lol). I agree that s2 wasn't as satisfying because we really only got a few geraskier interactions at all and their emotional arc super isn't resolved, you're right about that for sure, but what we do see of their healing process is geralt taking like.... one step forward (says he missed and needs jaskier, hugs him), one step back (cuts jaskier off when he's trying to express himself), and then one step forward again (holds jaskier's stuff for him, apologizes, trusts him with ciri, etc). so personally I feel like they're still in a better place overall than at the end of s1 and have plenty of room to keep developing, they're just suffering from jaskier being criminally underutilized overall lol. I have more thoughts but I'm gonna stop here, sorry this got so long, hope it's not rude or anything!

first of all, it’s not rude at all, thanks for feeling safe enough to share this with me (i know one is always safe on anon but well). it sure was interesting to read this, and actually, nonnie, i agree with you on many many points here.

on a human level, a deeper level as opposed to the shallow level of s1, they absolutely can be understood as being closer than before. and if not closer, then definitely shifted, morphed, maybe even adapted. they have a sort of emotional honesty now that they didn’t have in s1 where jaskier rambled a lot and writing himself into all sorts of stories and mindsets, in a way, and geralt just being not at all talkative or trusting. and it does feel like they needed to fall apart and have a fresh start to really get it right this time. and i love so much that you feel like that’s what you’re getting in season 2. i can totally see how that would be your take-away.

but to me, it feels like it’s not so much a fresh start with taking one step forward and one step back, and really just like there’s… too much baggage between them, too much weighing them down so they can’t really lift their feet to move forward or back. when i look at jaskier, i just really only see a broken kind of man when it comes to geralt. and i don’t even just mean the lack of apologies (on both parts, cants stress that enough), i mean the lack of healing. that is a process, i am very well aware, and they can’t show that in what little time they had for everything in the episodes. but i think that’s just it, you know? they didn’t have much time for geralt and jaskier’s interactions, and still they chose to use jaskier as a punching bag, as a cheap way to get some laughs that come at the expense of his personality and his pain and his canonically broken heart. they let jaskier brush off geralt’s apology instead of making him falter in his steps and look up at geralt, geralt looks down, their eyes meet and both of them know the other understands. both of them know they can work together and fix this. like, not even in a romantic way, this is just a bare necessity on a very human level. and the writers decided against that and just let jaskier make a joke. yes, i revel in geralt’s little smile and the relief that must befall him at this tiny piece of nostalgic normalcy. but it breaks my heart because we all know what lies beneath that stupid little attempt at a joke.

and this pain, this badly concealed pain on jaskier’s part versus all that trust and willingness to start over on geralt’s, that you mentioned, it all just. feels like two puzzle pieces that don’t fit together anymore. especially not in the way the twn writers did it. fic writers could definitely make them work again, but in order to achieve that?? there’s months and years of healing to wade through for both of them. and i’m not saying that’s impossible or that it wouldn’t be delightful to read it. i’m saying it’s draining that we have to do this in order to give them post-s2 fluff. like, even if i were in your shoes and were fine with them as they are now, if i wanted to follow-up season 2 with a fic, i would have to just. mention everything i just did, and establish it. either in dialogue or in narration. the pairing just, for me, has lost its natural flow, that familiar kind of feeling, the way they worked together without you as the writer even having to think about it.

now, to me, everything is heavy. yes, it is human, yes it is a step into the direction of healing, yes it important that they don’t just get back together and pretend nothing happened. but it would have helped greatly if i had the feeling that the writers of the show cared at all about healing all the pain and trauma they have created for their main characters. even just a little bit.

#this probably deserves a more eloquent answer but it’s 4:30am please excuse me #discourse #fandom discourse #geraskier #the witcher #oh look it’s turning into a whole thing #nonnie asks #twn critical #but not really. i'm just sad and want to write my boys again but i am tired of finding excuses #nat rambles #nonnie your points are very valid and voicing my own ‘but’ here has helped me work out just what my problem is a bit more. i kiss your hand

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hopevalley · 3 years

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I’ll admit, last night I was in a lot of pain and I made a post that probably came off quite rude, so for that I apologize. I wasn’t trying to be insensitive. I'm just incredibly frustrated by the attitude the fans have regarding this show.

When I said the writing was poor, I was nitpicking and being unfair. I was told if I didn’t like it, I should stop watching because “that’s just how the show is now.” But now that so many people are feeling disappointed by Elizabeth’s choice in the love triangle, now it’s suddenly okay to be mad at the show. Now it’s okay to talk about how the writing is trash-tier and the writers don’t care about the characters. Now it’s okay to say things suck (besides the usual criticism about the makeup and hairstyles and lack of period-appropriate attire).

I started this season off being intentionally more positive because I was tired of the messages that told me my negativity was irritating, and I didn’t want to make any blanket statements about the writing until the end of the season (new writer, new way of doing things, so I didn’t want to judge too early). Well, now it’s the end of the season and I’m seeing all these comments about how the finale was bad, and the writing *in this season* didn’t lead up properly to it, and while I agree with that, here’s what I LITERALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT YOU GUYS:

Why has no one pointed out the blatant flip-flop between the characterization/characters of Nathan and Lucas this season? Why are you all going on about how Lucas is patient and Nathan is pushy? Have y’all forgotten S6 and S7 where Nathan was patient and Lucas was the pushy one?

Y’ALL. I just want to say: the writing this entire season regarding the love triangle has been shit. It wasn’t just the finale.

At first I was so happy with the new version of Lucas (he was so weird before and now he felt like a good character) I didn’t want to jinx it, but man...the second Nathan started being pushy I figured out what was going on: that was the writers’ attempt at “balancing” the triangle lmao. Just flip their personalities around!!!! It was awful but I’m pretty sure that’s what they did to make up for Lucas being vaguely awfully written in S6 and S7 while Nathan was always much more reserved (except in the windstorm episode but we can all agree that was a terrible episode, right?). I can’t believe it happened but I find it almost harder to believe that...nobody else really noticed it? (Is it me? AM I INSANE?)

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Elizabeth’s choice was the wrong one, but I do think the “triangle” was a huge mistake, and the writing surrounding it was bad from the get-go. I guess to sum my thoughts on that up in a very broad sense, I’ll say that I feel like the triangle writing, especially this season, was very...meandering, and nobody deserved that.

Also, for all of Elizabeth’s speech to Nathan about how she was trying to find Jack in him, I never really felt that way about their relationship except for one scene (where she ran to him after she thought he might have been shot), but I definitely felt that way about Lucas in the sense that their relationship reminds me of her relationship with Jack. The candles, the big gestures, the slightly awkward interactions at first. The tonsil-sucking kissing... That’s all very familiar! I’m not opposed to the relationship itself, but having Elizabeth go out of her way to tell Nathan what she did (you know, “telling” the viewer instead of showing them all season) felt really cheap! She could have honestly just told him, “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” and I would have been like, thank God she’s just being honest with him!!

Don’t even get me started on Nathan talking to Lucas... I wanted to like that scene so much, but 1) they had more chemistry with each other than with Elizabeth...again, and 2) it felt manipulative, like “See guys?! Nathan’s fine with it and knew all along!! haha!!” Sorry but your writing all season doesn’t support that even an ounce!

I don’t know why Hallmark is surprised that people are reacting negatively; they promo’d the show based on the premise of a love triangle for a woman who LITERALLY JUST LOST HER HUSBAND IN A SHOCKING AND RANDOM TRAGIC ACCIDENT and then went out of their way to encourage fans to pick a #team, and then gASP...are surprised when fans emotionally invest themselves in their personal choice for Elizabeth and are (naturally, understandably) upset when their choice ends up being the “incorrect” one!

What did they think was going to happen?

Sure, some fans had borderline delusional ideas of what should have happened and/or of what different scenes meant, but I think most people had a reasonable understanding of the show and chose based off of what scenes spoke to them. Part of the issue all along has been that Elizabeth has never had much in the way of A Personality. I don’t want to sound like a bitch here, but she mostly exists as a vehicle for the viewer to self-insert into, a fresh lens to view Coal Valley (and then Hope Valley) through, and so tends toward more generic personality traits to make her more #relatable. The problem with this style of writing is that the viewers do engage in the media in a very specific way, and naturally chose their “ideal” for Elizabeth with extra-biased judgment (as each person has been encouraged to insert bits of themselves into her character).

This isn’t a knock against the fans, by the way. It’s the way this type of character is meant to be viewed and engaged with...which is precisely why Elizabeth was such a poor choice for a love triangle, but...here we are anyway.

Most Team Lucas fans are happy with the choice, but I’d say it’s folly to believe they’re all 100% satisfied with the writing that led to it. It feels good to feel right, to be right, and to have picked right, doesn’t it? When that high fades I think some of them are going to reassess and be like, “The writing could have definitely been much better, though.”

That said, they dragged the love triangle out all season because they were legitimately terrified that some of y’all would stop watching partway through the season otherwise, and they wanted those sweet, sweet ratings. You can be mad about it all you want, and justly so because you fell for it (and that Feels Real Bad), but they got their ratings and their renewal. You tuned in. You got excited. And they were right in the case of quite a few of you: if they’d had her pick Lucas in Episode 3 or something, a bunch of people would have stopped watching and the ratings would have plummeted for the season.

The really awful thing about this is that...they KNEW it would happen. They made their own stupid bed and instead of just laying in it, they were like, well what if we dragged it out all season to keep viewer engagement with the show up? And they did. And we all fell for it like chumps. That’s worse than the bad writing and the character assassination this season and being wrong about who Elizabeth would choose...by a large margin, IMO.

The thing is...how many of us knew they were doing that and bought the season anyway? Watched anyway?

Many of us just hoped we’d be justified in the end by Elizabeth’s choice being the one we wanted for her, but we weren’t. For how many of you was that salt in the wound? It’s something to think about, anyway.

#when calls the heart #season 8 spoilers #season 8 shenanigans

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

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The thing about “Good Dad Bruce Wayne” and “Bat-Dad” is....that’s the dream. I love any and all depictions of Bruce Wayne that prioritize him DOING THE WORK to be a good father to his kids.

I never look for reasons to criticize Bruce or his parenting. My frequent bitching and moaning about him and how he’s written comes from one place and one place only:

IMO a lot of the time, instead of writing Bruce putting in the WORK to be the PARENT, people just write him being 70% of the problem and only 30% of the solution and call that ‘good enough.’ Because hey, at least he’s trying to be part of the solution and fix his mistakes and be better for his kids, and isn’t that the most anyone can ask for?

Well, no. Its not. Especially since with the exception of Damian, Bruce chose each and every one of his kids with full knowledge of what he was doing. He doesn’t GET to do the bare minimum, even when his kids require more effort than the norm, like the situations with Jason sometimes are beyond the ordinary. There’s no quota to parenting.

The thing about Bruce Wayne is he is pretty much the most competent individual in the DC universe. He has more resources available at his disposal than any other parent can dream of. He has excelled at every thing he’s ever put his mind to....

Except, often times....being a parent.

And parenting is not somehow inherently more impossible than saving the world every other week. Its just not. It literally is just: put your kids first.

And that is what Bruce is written as failing to do, time and time again. That is almost unilaterally where every single one of his conflicts with his children come from.

When he puts his own fear of rejection over Dick’s fear of abandonment, and refuses to reach out to Dick, beg him to come home, ask him to stay.

When he puts his own moral choices over Jason’s need to be understood, to have a father who can coexist with him and his choices when that very same father has at many times reconciled working with heroes with vastly different moral codes and even body counts of their own.

When he puts his own discomfort with emotional conversations and expressions of affection over Tim’s need for concrete gestures and reassurances that his parent needs and wants him in his life.

And so on.

These things are all actionable. They are all based on choices Bruce can make, and at many times just chooses not to. They all demand one thing and one thing only, the one thing that is expected of parents who take on the responsibility of a child that they and they alone are responsible for the wellbeing of:

Put. Them. First.

And falling short of that, when there’s every opportunity to do the work...is Bruce’s failure. It just is. Its not on his kids. He is the parent. Always and forever, with each and every one of them. That is what he signed up for. THEY did not. Kids don’t have the same power and choices about where they end up as the parents do when deciding that where they end up should be with them. And that can’t be disregarded. Bruce’s kids, as much as they love and appreciate him, are not ultimately the ones who arranged to be tied to Bruce for the rest of their lives, even if they all accepted that and wanted that in their own ways. He was the one with the actual power to make those choices, and to quote DC’s competition:

With great power comes great responsibility.

Bruce’s kids will always have less power than him purely in the context of their relationships with him, because the yearning for a parent’s approval exists on a wholly different level than anything a parent can need or get from their child - especially when they have multiple children but those multiple children each only have the one parent they’re all desperately hoping for the approval of. As well as when each of those multiple children arrive in Bruce’s life already burdened with issues born of abandonment and abuse and neglect that aren’t Bruce’s fault....but from the second Bruce stepped up and volunteered to be their parent, still very much became his responsibility all the same.

Bruce’s kids will always, always, always have more to lose, when there’s any conflict between them and their father.

And the thing that frustrates me so much about how Bruce is written in both canon AND fanfics....

Is how often the narratives cut corners and emphasize the blame and responsibility of his children and make them settle....for just ‘good enough’ from him. For ‘well at least he’s trying.’ For ‘he’s not perfect.’

He doesn’t need to be perfect.

But he needs to be the parent.

And personally, I will never be satisfied by narratives that feel like they make more attempt to coddle him and say its okay to just do the bare minimum, as long as he’s making an effort...than they do to make him step up and do the work, put his kids before his own issues.

He’s not the child. So stop treating him like one. Stop writing his kids being more mature than him. Stop saying his children are ‘equally at fault’ for him refusing to make them a priority and any issues of insecurity and abandonment and hurt they feel because of this. Stop expecting his oldest children to act as buffers for his younger children and do the parenting he refuses to do at times, and stop only treating them like his equal when it allows for them to victimize him in some way, with the story treating them like the aggressors and him the misunderstood recipient of their emotional harm and neglect.

Bruce Wayne has more social power and resources and skills and intelligence than just about any other human in the DC universe....his children included. Please can we just start holding him to the standards that kind of power should entail? Instead of looking to his children to always make up the difference for the times he refuses to be accountable, or a narrative refuses to hold him responsible for his own behavior and poor choices?

I WANT Good Dad Bruce Wayne.

I’m just tired of seeing ‘emotionally stunted surly teenager who makes his family’s lives far more difficult than they need to be and then awkwardly hugs them and grunts out an apology in the last paragraph to make up for it’....and being told: that’s Good Dad Bruce Wayne too.

No. Its not. I know what actual Good Dad Bruce looks like, and that ain’t it. Do better. Make him do better.

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arrozaurus · 4 years

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Something Rose haters say that I disagree with was when they say Rose made Steven just so she could run away from her problems. In the beginning of the SU and later episodes, it’s shown that Homeworld hadn’t interacted with Earth for thousands of years after the Gem War until they sent the Red Eye. She didn’t know about the Cluster either. [1/3]

The Earth was at peace (albeit the corrupted gems) and it was just coincidence she met Greg at the time and that in the near future, her past involving Homeword and Steven would come up around the same time too. I’m sure that if she knew of the Cluster’s existence and the Homeworld gems looking into Earth again after thousands of years, she would’ve held off on making Steven for the time being and instead focus on trying to stop the Earth’s destruction once again [2/3]

Bismuth’s bubbling, Spinel’s abandonment, the Diamond’s and a lot of other things Rose/Pink had direct involvement of are things I’m not certain she could’ve had the ability to go back AND amend her wrongdoings too as Rose/Pink and IMO she believed only Steven could correct her past mistakes even at the cost of her reputation, her life and the emotional baggage she would unintentionally bring to Steven. [3/3] (Idk I could be wrong bc Pink/Rose is a very complex character to think about)

“rose had steven to run away from her problems” not only is a bad take but also TERRIBLY stigmatizing for people struggling with suicidal ideation.

i know you might be thinking wtf op, this comes out of nowhere! because it was first stablished as a noble sacrifice, a mother dying to give life to her son yada-yada-yada. but in the end, “rose is the hugest example of these themes of self-destruction”. rose has always been in a very bad mental place. even in a more peaceful environment, you don’t magically heal from the injuries you were caused, it’s so easy to continue—to inflict to yourself—that cycle of abuse internally without even realizing that the abuser was the one to start it.

anyone that has been/is in that place will know. things as simple as thinking of five aspects about yourself that you like will make you panic because you can’t even think of one. instead it sends you into a spiralling list of everything that you hate about yourself and that you would like to change but never feels genuine enough. nothing positive that it’s said about you feels like it’s you.

the crushing expectations that she was forced to fulfill at homeworld cascaded into an unattainable perfectionism to become the loving caring person she strived to be. but she would never get it (feel satisfied with it), because she was asking impossible things of herself and punishing herself for it.

when she decided to stop existing to create steven, she peaked at that pattern of self-harm. and no one was around to stop her. no one was around to see her suffering past her mask and truly help her. it was a failure of her (albeit limited) support system.

so even if she was avoiding her problems, so what? would that help the person in this situation? would that make her feel less guilty and motivate her to tie threads she’s left loose when she thinks that everything she tries to fix just crumbles under her palms? would that magically make her feel like everyone would be better off with her?

NO, it would just make her close herself emotionally more and not ask for your help when she genuinely needs it. and additionally, you would be contributing to her self-hatred!

if there is something i know about this it’s that it’s complicated. rose’s motivations to have steven were diverse, and above all, heartfelt.

she is very straight forward in the tapes (as straight forward as rose can be). what she says there is completely sincere. she has no plans for steven, she doesn’t want him to do anything in particular... she’s just very excited about all the experiences he would have as a human, the power to write his own story. without expectations, without people "picking him apart”, surrounded by love.

of course it wouldn’t occur to her all these things she’d left behind would just come back to him one day and that he would feel like he had to fill her inexistent shoes. indeed from her perspective, all that hussle had happened a very long time ago. after all, if she had seen the red eye coming to earth, how would steven be able to grow up with all those things she wanted him to have?

#suicide mention #abuse mention #rose quartz #pink diamond #Anonymous

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her-gentle-prison · 3 years

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Redemption is such a complicated idea and there’s no easy way to answer any of those questions that I get kind of frustrated when people try to act like there’s a definitive answer. Like, one of the tropes I like is when a villain or somehow morally grey character slowly and reluctantly becomes a slightly better person thanks to the influence of a different character. Is that a redemption arc even if they have never consciously made amends or felt guilty about what they’ve done? Why is guilt and punishment so necessary when the basic concept of a redemption arc is the idea of being better today than you were yesterday? How long does a person have to feel guilty for the things they’ve done when the past is already written and all that can be done is make different choices in the present? How do intent and cultural values of the setting play into it? Does it matter what the severity of the original sin was? Argh, I just love the idea of people deciding to at least try to be better and making mistakes and failing and trying again. I’ve been reading a lot about theories of justice and it makes me emotional.

Ah, that's so interesting!

I think this idea of having to suffer in order to make up for what you did is very much rooted in Christian beliefs and reflects a very Christian idea of morality. Which makes sense as the term redemption was related to religion originally, tho it has a more loose definition nowadays.

I get that guilt and suffering are necessary for the redemption to feel emotionally satisfying and cathartic, but seeing a villain going from one viewpoint to a radically different one is satisfying enough imo.

One of my favorite redemption arcs in fiction is Raskolnikov's in Crime and Punishment. Throughout the whole book we see him suffering, feeing guilty for what he did, and yet I've seen a lot argue that the ending was too sappy and that he got off easy (he's literally sent to work in a labor camp in Siberia for 7 years). But people are so set on this idea of suffering in order to atone that they can't even appreciate the idea that this character was being given a second chance. Does it matter if he didn't suffer enough? Is it not satisfying enough to see a character realizing they've done wrong, finally forgiving themselves for it, and working to correct that?

That's why I also don't like the idea that the only way for a character to redeem themselves is through death, I don't like the idea that once a character has fucked up, there's no going back, under what criterias do we decide that what this character has done is unforgivable? And if there really are unforgivable crimes in fiction, then what is the point of redemption arcs?

(It becomes even worse if the villain was a former abused or oppressed person because what is the takeaway here?)

I remember reading an interesting meta about the idea of redemption in Christian religion vs in Jewish religion. In Jewish religion, the idea of redemption is replaced by the idea of atonement. Atoning is about fixing what you've done, and striving to do better while redemption is about suffering in order to make up for what you did. And I find the idea of atonement more compelling!

#Anonymous #redemption arcs #aaah this was all over the place #I wanted to add more but this was already getting messy #but I agree with you anon I like the idea of villains getting character development and growth #and not even necessarily suffering for it #but you'd be crucified for holding that sort of opinion on Tumblr 😂#god forbid enjoying villains and not wanting them to die #people on here are still very much influenced by Christian beliefs

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dreamingofscully · 4 years

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3x02. “Paper Clip” (part 3 of 3) - X-Files Rewatch

"I've heard the truth, Mulder. Now what I want are the answers." - Scully

Scully's face when Mulder comes through the door. Mulder aiming his gun at Skinner, no questions, just taking her side and backing her up. That just kills me every time.

Then their conversation by the elevator. Such subtext. Scully's delighted smile that he's there, that she was right to think he wasn't dead. And she TELLS HIM she knew he was alive. Mulder looks amazed that she knew. He's just constantly in awe of her. Oh, you can't see it on-screen but at the beginning of this elevator scene Mulder leans forward and grabs Scully's arms when she smiles and says "Mulder..." 😭 ❤️

Maggie finding out it's Melissa not Dana that is shot. 😭

Frohike telling Scully that her sister is shot, and Mulder having to prevent her from going there is heartbreaking.

Getting Albert Hosteen to go to Melissa and Maggie in the hospital. 😭 ❤️

That Scully knows Napier's constant. I love my hyper genius Scully so much. 😭 ❤️

Her being concerned about Mulder would react if he found out terrible things about his father. Even when she's got her own worries. She's so amazing. :sobs with overwhelming love:

Mulder looking for Scully's file first - then his own/Samantha's. Just a continuation of what we know are his priorities. They get their first step towards getting answers for what happened to her.

Mulder has the holy grail. It would mean giving up a lot to ensure that he keeps it, that he can look through it, find answers, and tell the world about what's been happening. BUT HE GIVES IT UP BECAUSE SCULLY ASKS HIM TO - IMMEDIATELY. All she has to do is ask. The truth, his quest, it's secondary now. I love how he makes it her decision. Would the Mulder from the Pilot do this? Not ever.

CSM makes a permanent enemy with Krycek here. I also like how he technically didn't try to use bullets (like WMM said earlier: "This is not a profession for men who make mistakes. My God, you presume to make us believe you can simply fix it with enough bullets?") So, he uses a bomb. 🤣

WMM talking with M&S - I just love how he just tells them everything. Like... he doesn't care that he's been part of a secret organization and M&S are actively working against them. It's like he's a paladin and can't lie, or more likely he's just decided he likes them and just doesn't give a fuck. Scully is still the skeptical one when it comes to people as well, though. Once he starts talking about things that are too close to Scully, she walks away, not quite emotionally ready to deal with her abduction/memories yet, despite searching for answers.

CSM lies to everyone, not just Mulder and Scully. He lies to his allies, he tries to kill his associates. He'll do anything to secure his position and to retain power. But he's not a subtle type of person. He solves things by killing people, and doesn't much think of the consequences of his actions. CSM getting his comeuppance from Krycek, Skinner, and the other Consortium members just makes me so happy. So satisfying. (Didn’t happen enough in later seasons, they made him too invulnerable and savvy IMO.)

Their conversation at the hospital after Melissa's death. Mulder hates that Scully is feeling guilt and hopelessness at what's happened. He knows that she does what is right and good, and remembers when she tried to pick him up when he was ready to give up. So he gives that back to her. His mention of fate here is particularly interesting. Scully doesn't truly believe him about fate until another significant episode years later - all things. Interesting. ❤️

Scully needs to work after dealing with loss - it helps her. Not only does it serve as a distraction from the grief but she draws strength from Mulder and while they COULD VERY EASILY interact outside of work, they both either don't want to cross that line or don't think the other wants the same thing. It’s safe to just work together, to be together that way.

I love their embrace at the end. 😭 ❤️

I did a lot of crying this episode, for grief and joy and many other reasons.

#xfiles #x-files #x-files rewatch #x files rewatch #msr #msrheadcanon #mulder and scully #dana scully #fox mulder #season 3

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postmodernmulticoloredcloak · 5 years

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Why do you think Supernatural has such a large LGBTQ+ following? The representation of queer people ist piss poor and most of the time non-existent. Is it because of the IMO queerbaiting or are there other reasons?

I personally think that it’s a bit offensive to say that queer viewers are attracted to a product either because there is “representation” or because they’re “baited” into watching it. Gays watched television before Glee aired and they weren’t just watching Will & Grace. I'll also go on a limb here and say that I suspect that Supernatural is more popular among an older queer audience while a younger queer audience is more likely to be critical of it. There is a generational divide in how the queer audience relates to media, after all.

Before “representation”, queer subtext was the way for queer creators or queer actors to convey “we’re here, we see you” to queer people in the audience. I am not saying that was good and the way things are now is bad, because it’s only progress to have actual explicit queerness in media. We’re not arrived to the end of that process, though, and a lot of explicit representation is highly unsatisfactory (token characters, “bury your gays”, stereotypes that are still hard to kill, narratives limited to coming out or dealing with homophobia, etc).

An older audience is used to see subtext and appreciate it. A younger audience sees the same thing and instead of subtext they see queerbaiting, i.e. creators - who are assumed to be nonqueer, or whose queerness is not considered relevant to the discussion - dangling a “promise” of queerness that is not delivered.

Supernatural is, at its core, a show based on nostalgia. I believe it deliberately plays on an “old school” way of crafting stories, including subtext, which is also why I believe it makes no sense to compare Supernatural with a Shadowhunters or a Lucifer and point fingers and say “that one does the thing”, because we’re talking completely different storytelling ways. While Supernatural has definitely evolved through the years and “modernized” itself in many ways, it’s still a narrative that likes to keep a foot in a 1980s shoe. You can like it or not, but it’s one of the things that have made the show what it is, given it a specific identity, and make it last this long.

But the fundamental thing in this discussion is that Supernatural is a story about identity, agency, bodily autonomy, corporeity and violation, abusive parental expectations, defying paternal or paternal-coded and religious-themed authority - what about this doesn’t seem interesting for a queer audience? There are themes of non-normative experiences including in the sphere of sexuality and relationships, there is an undercurrent of masculinity as a theme, and of course Supernatural is a horror story, with all the history of the genre it references and pays homage to, and the genre plays (in good or bad ways) on non-normativity, social subversion, corporeity, and gender. (A fundamental mistake, in my personal opinion, is to think of Supernatural as a drama show, because then it just becomes a bad drama show.)

Why do you think queer people flocked to Captain America: The Winter Soldier, because they were deluded that Marvel Studios would deliver queer representation or because of a narrative about identity, agency, bodily autonomy and defying the authority of the wealthy white male figure in a position of power used for imperialistic totalitarian purposes? (Not coincidentally, The Winter Soldier plays with tropes from the horror genre.)

The main character of Supernatural is a queercoded man who a lot of queer viewers have identified with - I don’t think that experience is worthless just because it’s not textually explicit that the character is queer. A lot of explicitly queer characters in television are not given the same depth and relevance in the story as Dean Winchester, and maybe they’re relatable for their experiences with coming out or dealing with homophobia but that’s it. Dean’s story is about things that resonate with many queer people, his struggles with finding his role in the world as an outcast who feels like a freak for social reasons (unlike Sam’s “supernatural” reasons), as a man in a model of masculinity that is too restrictive and toxic for him, as an inherently antiauthoritarian, subversive force in a conservative, hierarchical system - does all of this get null because the character isn’t explicited as a mlm? Dean’s story is pretty much a journey about embracing a queer experience, is that less worthy of consideration just because it’s not about (explicitly) embracing a queer identity?

There’s also another thing - the inherent value of a metaphor. Castiel’s story, for instance, is basically a metaphor for the experiences of a queer, specifically trans for certain aspects, person from a hostile family. But it’s not - does that make it void of significance for a person with those experiences? I don’t think so. It can be uncomfortable and triggering to watch the same traumatic experiences as yours, but it can be more emotionally useful to watch a metaphor of them. A queercoded narrative can offer the viewer the experience of identification with the character and their story, but with a distance: you don’t live the same traumatic experiences while you “are” Castiel, but you live experiences that have similar aspects, but in an “unrealistic” context, that allow you to elaborate emotions while maintaining an emotional distance.

This doesn’t mean that a queer viewers has to like it just because. Nor that Supernatural shouldn’t have done things differently/better. (It is really not a perfect show.) But it seems to me that there are pretty obvious reasons for its popularity among a queer audience, and I don’t think those are reducible to the queer audience being “baited” into watching something that eventually reveals itself as unsatisfactory and disappointing.

I do realize that my experience with watching Supernatural is not the same as many other fans here on tumblr & adjacent, but universal experiences don’t exist, so I suppose that neither is the “true” one. These were my two cents on the matter and I hope it was a satisfying answer! I probably came off as a bit abrasive but I’ve spent way too many years on this site surrounded by talk of queerbaiting so I hope you can understand :)

#my spn thoughts #queer subtext #spn meta #queercoding #queerbaiting #spn #anon

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stranger-who-writes-fiction · 4 years

Text

Alright 5x19 let’s DO THIS.

(Warning: This will probably be long.)

WE BEGIN...by visiting Leviathan’s underground speakeasy.

The shot of Lex in the glow of the Kryptonite is great, 15/10 iconic Kryptonian Killer.

But SPEAKING of things that are green and bad...Gemma’s outfit is stage magician meets Mera from Aquaman and WAIT, WAIT, I’m just now remembering that the character in the comics was linked to Atlantis. Is that why they’ve gone with a green motif for her all season?

Probably not. Either way, still gives me knockoff Mera vibes. (*whispers quietly* I don’t like Mera’s outfit either.)

(I’m reading the Wikipedia entry for Gamemnae and did you know: she was exiled from Atlantis for being blonde?)

Anyways!

That’s just a very long-winded way of saying that the costume is kind of a weird choice.

Then we’re back in Kara’s loft and finally, FINALLY...someone tells Lena that there are BIGGER FISH, STOP REMINISCING.

And then the Superfriends arrive on the scene and they are ready to throw down.

Honestly same bro, same.

Also M’GANN IS ON THE TEAM I love it please, SG, please, hire Sharon Leal full-time.

What is the current door-kicking tally--how many front entrances have the Danvers girls destroyed?

“Well the joke’s on Rama Khan and his big dumb gladiator outfit because I already defeated him once.” THIS. IS. WHAT. I. HAVE. BEEN. SAYING.

THE COSTUME IS SILLY AND NOT IN A FUN WAY.

Leviathan just has terrible fashion sense, is basically the theme of this season.

Oh my gosh M’gann being the one to suggest the multiple Karas and the WINK I love her, I love her so much.

PLEASE NOTE: That J’onn was like ‘the skirt is surprisingly comfortable’ but his response to the pants is, ‘they’re gonna chafe.’

J’onn J’onzz, Skirt Supporter.

Then the Alex suit reveal and ooof, ooooof, probably the wonkiest of the scenes, unfortunately. (Can’t decide if I appreciate the effort of the CGI Alex or if it’s simply too uncanny valley.)

Also, put a pin in the Alex suit reveal. We’ll circle back to it.

(Oh wait and also: Kara’s scream and J’onn’s reaction all A+.)

Breaking chronological order here to just touch on the highlights and maybe discuss particular chunks in detail SO...let’s get right toooooooo....

Rooftop scene with Alex and M’Gann! Nice! But also I was like, ‘Alex just...has a bazooka? ...Yeah that tracks.’ And then I remembered that she has the martian weapon...honestly kinda prefer my accidental headcanon that she just owns one.

Then back to Lena and Kara and we’ve come full circle because folks...they figuratively flew to Luthor-Corp...on a bus.

Oh if only that was the actual goal of this entire plot. I would applaud it.

SG writers, always: REAL threats come in groups of THREE.

I actually don’t mind it. They aren’t given a big introduction and amount of screen time, so it’s pretty unobtrusive.

Then we get a Luthor-Corp lab scene AND a good look at Alex’s suit so LET’S CHAT.

Okay first and foremost: not opposed to vigilante Alex! Especially if it means she can work with Kara a bit more directly.

Love the color scheme! Love the hood! Love that the boots are no longer the stealth wedge heel but are just...heels. Good, yes, good! Also love that you can see it’s basically built on top of her DEO suit which totally makes sense, as...I guess Alex is building the suit mentally, not physically, technically, but she’d still be using stuff she’s familiar with to put it together in...her...mind?

I also think the top portion sits better than the DEO suit, which had that awkward...square-ish portion that covered the front of the torso.

But hmmmmmm the eye makeup is...a statement.

Confused as to why they didn’t go with a domino mask...maybe it was an actor comfort thing but HMMMMM not my personal favorite, admittedly. (Also don’t love the lace up look on the front portion but that’s because it’s reminding me of some of the terrible costumes from Arrow.)

And then the hair clip, which. Okay. As someone who has been struggling to find a way to pull back short hair during this time of no haircuts...can’t be mad about it.

In fact, catch me over here, taking notes.

Alright, costume rambling OVER sorry for the tangent but, you know. New super suit, it’s always exciting.

I like that Kara had to deal with not being able to be out fighting the threat! That’s a good bit of character stuff there.

“William went after Eve ALONE?!?!?” “No super hearing!”

“Please, be careful.” “You know me.” “Yeah, exactly, that’s what I’m worried about.” And then a HUG and they’re just the best.

Dunno if I’ve mentioned it yet but I love the effects they use for Gemma’s ‘true form.’ Very cool and creepy.

Does Andrea just...not question Gemma’s evil villain outfit...or...?

Much like Alex’s super suit we’re puttin’ a PIN in the Brainy plot we’ll get there but FIRST...

THE KARA AND LENA CONVERSATION.

Do I think it should’ve come earlier in the season? Yes! Do I care at this point? ...Okay, still yes! But that’s another pinned point I’ll get back to, right now let us just bask in the beauty that is specifically, verbally laying out all the CRAP Lena put Kara through, and Kara making sure Lena understands THAT is what hurt her, not ‘working with Lex.’

“You never understood.” BINGO. “I know I hurt you by waiting so long to tell you my truth but what about all the ways you hurt me?” EXACTLY.

“I made one mistake, one mistake that was only ever meant to protect you and in return, all you did was hurt me in every way imaginable.”

Then Lena finally apologizes. For, you know, the stuff that was actually upsetting Kara. So. We got there. ...Eventually.

Then it’s off to save William and he’s talking down Eve! We love a noble journalist.

Kara cauterizing the bullet wound and William being like ‘DO IT no wait DON’T DO IT’ and Kara’s just like, ‘TOO LATE, IT’S DONE.’

RETURN OF THE POWER RANGERS SUIT NICE.

And theeeeen a lot of scenes that are fine but it’s mostly just legwork to get us to the bigger parts of the episode sooooo we’re jumping to...

Andrea! Pleasantly surprised with her part in the action of this episode. Had that nice moral conflict we saw in the front half of the season. It’s a little crammed in here, at the last minute, but. Still enjoyed seeing it.

A personal quibble on the visuals: I prefer the simple elegance of the season one hope speech, (Just a lone camera, in a rundown radio station XD) but I understand they had to convey ‘scale.’ Still think it’s a little much.

Oh man, totally forgot to mention, loved Nicole’s line read for, “Maybe you should’ve been meaner.” It was GREAT.

So there’s the fight against Rama Khan and his buddies, and Kara’s trying to talk people out of a MMORPG, AND Andrea shows up ready to kill somebody.

The drama! The suspense!

THE SCORE.

I have another quibble with the cutting back and forth on the hope speech and it’s largely to do with perhaps inadvertent implications regarding who has to grow from pain and what pain in particular, but that might just be a ‘me’ thing, reading the scene a particular way, so I’m just gonna move on and say LOVE TO SEE A HOPE SPEECH.

Also:

Supergirl: “I believe in you.”

The VR peeps and us, the audience:

Alright time to talk about BRAINY.

Admittedly haven’t loved double agent Brainy, which felt more like a, ‘let’s add some drama’ move than anything else.

I do still stand by my assessment that Brainy being a few steps behind Lex made sense given his distress re: Nia and the Superfriends.

But also...was a little wild, IMO, that he didn’t have...some way to at least circumnavigate the radiation shield? Or at the very least limit it.

But again. DRAMA.

All that said...wow. Loved the two Brainys at the end, there. Genuinely touching.

“Will you stay with me?” “Till the very end.”

BRAAAAAAAIIIINNNNNNNNY.

How do you make another Luthor reveal work when you ALREADY pulled the, ‘It was Lex all along!’ like, twice before?

You MAKE IT LILLIAN.

Like, dang it, I enjoyed it. How dare you, SG.

But THAT’S IT. NO MORE SECRET LUTHOR REVEALS.

The terminator look and death shriek for Gemma was fittingly creepy very nice.

But also WOW, she never interacted with Kara. I am DISAPPOINTED.

So anyways, that second Lena and Kara conversation!

It was fine. It’s fine. This is fine. It’s...it’s fine.

(Except that it highlights a problem with the way this whole thing was set up and it’s not something unique to SG! It’s a problem I’ve noticed with a lot of redemption arcs--which seem to be all the rage, as of late--and that is a disproportionate amount of bad things done by the one character, and putting off the turn until like, the last possible minute to increase the drama factor and thaaaaat...is not a super satisfying conclusion because it’s a HUGE amount of build up for a relatively small pay off. Like, as Kara is listing the stuff that Lena’s done, it’s kind of a stark reminder that Lena physically and emotionally hurt Kara on purpose which. Is a glaring red flag. That’s the kind of thing that needs to be unpacked, maybe! Given some space!

Which isn’t to say that characters should never be forgiven, or that they need to be excessively punished. It just needs time. So saving the ‘redemption’ part for the very end where the characters NEED TO BE HEROES RIGHT NOW IN ORDER TO HELP OUT it’s...hmmmmmm. Too rushed.)

AND SO, SOME FINAL THOUGHTS ON THIS, THE SEASON FINALE, AND THE SEASON AS A WHOLE:

Wow but I did not like the focus on Lena. Not fun. No thanks.

Which is only made worse by the trashfire that is the SG fandom.

Loved the moments of growth and agency for Kara, though.

Loved the big crossover! It kinda made for a wonky set up of Earth-38 plot vs. Earth Prime plot but honestly anything the writers set up in the front portion of the season was going to be at the very least interrupted, if not completely derailed simply given the nature of what they intended to do with the merging of the earths.

Like give me SG’s approach to handling the front half of the season over Flash’s any day.

Still too many characters! Still too much plot! Still weird pacing issues! XD

Forget it, Jake, it’s Supergirl.

Oh, honorable mention: The handling of Kelly! She was integrated so well into a nice intersection of plot points and characters that when she’s there to hack into the Obsidian stuff in the finale it’s like, ‘well naturally she’d be here.’ EXCELLENT WORK.

William and Andrea win ‘most improved over their intensely unlikable introductions.’

To be clear: I liked this season finale! And the fact that it all came together as well as it did is a testament to the skill of all the folks involved, considering the awful extenuating circumstances.

Though, upon further introspection, I think I really do dislike the CGI Alex. Too far into the uncanny valley, sorry.

IN CONCLUSION: Very, very sad that it’s gonna be a whole year, or possibly longer, before we get new SG content but, glad that the actors will have a little more time off than they usually might, and I’m all for holding off the production as long as possible, in order to keep folks safe.

WHAT are Lex and Lillian up to, like, specifically, and WHAT is Alex’s superhero name??? WILL the folks in charge of the new Superman show remember that it’s a Supergirl spinoff?!??! Find out NEXT YEAR only on SUPERGIRL! (And Superman & Lois!)

EDIT: I used the word ‘quibble’ twice which feels like one time too many, but also it IS a fun word to say. ‘Quibble.’ Ha. XD

#SG post #long post #supergirl spoilers #5x19 spoilers

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thirdmagic · 4 years

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anyway now that i'm finally back on browser and can write long posts, full spoilery thoughts on rise of skywalker

i had a lot of time to think about it and honestly the more i did the more i went from 'i liked and was ok with most of it until the ending' and now the more i actually thought about it the more it progressed to 'actually, i kind of hate it, and there are individual moments that are very good that i love and then the ending ruins that too and now it rings horribly hollow and now i'm just sad and disappointed and also baffled at this whole movie'

first of all, the good part is: REYLO REYLO REYLO REYLO REYLO REYLO REYLO R E Y L O

i admit i had a very embarrassing reaction of pure unfiltered joy when they kissed because it was such a perfect moment, but also, in general? all the bits involving these two were easily the strongest and the most compelling. a lot of other very stupid bad moments tangled in between, but on the whole, when it was just them, their dynamic, their force bond, it was really intense and spicy and so resonant and beautiful all at one. i love them so so so much. their dynamic is SO juicy and good, their fights were amazing and gorgeous and also spicy and intense, and then the bits of palpatine fight where they interact without any words and just look at each other and you can just tell exactly what's going on without them even needing to say anything, the way they smile at each other and the love in their eyes, the tenderness in every motion, the encouragement when they see each other through the force bond in the middle of the ritual and rey just knows.... these moments are some of the best filmmaking in this whole movie.

unfortunately that was also when we got the bizzare exposition dump on her dumb backstory retcon that's very very delicately done so as to still be consistent with tlj and and this brings me to rey palpatine, which, on the one hand, is kind of the only rey heritage theory i'd ever accept and (ironically) the lesser of several evils that the heritage theories are, but also the undoing of what was really, really compelling in tlj about rey nobody and the horrible waste of potential that came from rey being a Nobody McNothing, her search for identity and ultimately accepting that it doesn't actually make her lesser as a human being, the potential that this movie is when she'll face her insecurities and emptiness and accept herself and find and forge her own path.... and also honestly it's dumb. it's really really dumb. if it had been built up to in any way in any of these movies, that would be one thing, and i actually find a lot of rey's struggles really interesting in concept but just awful and messy and forced in execution, and the idea of rey struggling with being good against an evil legacy and her own darkness is really compelling too, but rey doesn't need to be a palpatine or to want revenge on her actually good parents when being abandoned and alone her whole life is a very very good reason for her to have anger and hatred and darkness to struggle with. it also implies that she's evil because her great grandpa who she never met is evil and because genetics as opposed to like....... again, being abandoned and sold by two asshole jerk parents and having to repress the awful trauma of that her whole life and being unable to come to terms with it, which was interesting, and powerful, and very very real, and then it just throws away a really compelling set up for something really boring and bad. and then an ending for her that has no impact or emotional resonance and makes no sense and isn't in the least bit satisfying.

i will say though that i love love LOVE the dark rey fight, it was a vision but in the exact right Symbolic way, i loved rey struggling with her darkness in theory and it was the one and only part that was executed well, it was truly something that felt like it belonged here, it was eerie and intense and good. and unfortunately not properly followed on in any interesting way.

there were a few jokes that i liked and found funny! the way c3po says 'irony, sir' when poe asks him 'why can you not talk when we NEED you to' has me losing my shit, that was great, and also poe lighting the flashlight when rey uses her lightsaber as one was also hilarious. in general there were definitely a few actually purposefully funny moments that i liked.

ben's whole storyline up til the end was the only thing that really felt consistent and on track imo, a few missteps but mostly stayed solid, and I was very happy to get my bendemption. i can't describe how emotional i got at the scene with han and him throwing away his evil red saber and him calling han 'dad', and the force awakens callback-- i don't know why han is back as a ghost or if that's just a symbolic illusion or whatever, i don't care. adam driver is magnificent, and seeing him as ben again, seeing him comfortable with himself, and happy, on the light side, being playful while fighting and messing with the knights of ren because he’s so powerful and confident in his power, was worth everything. if there's one thing this movie really did right is that it made me suddenly realize that i actually love kylo-ben and also made me realize that i was so much more invested in his happiness than i thought, and unfortunately it made me realize this right as the story gave him maybe a few minutes or seconds of real joy and a beautiful sincere happy smile and then killed him off, and that's when i felt my soul being crushed.

look, i don't have tragic endings, okay, i don't hate even bittersweet endings, the purpose of an ending is to be satisfying and wrap up and tie together all the story strands in a way that makes sense for the story. that's not what this was. i would be willing to forgive the fact that the rest of the movie was a big stupid mess if it had just given the whole saga a proper ending, if it had been like umineko episode 8 which is also a big mess but with a perfect, beautiful, satisfying ending for the entire vn. but instead this just ruined everything, and made me feel miserable, hollow, and sad. this specific story, and trilogy, and nine part saga, did not need that kind of ending. we had a tragic and bittersweet ending for the first two, a happy ending to redeem all the misery of the skywalkers would have felt sincere instead of saccharine because you feel that they fought for it. and it would be a good complement to the rest of the movies and the message. instead we have two people who have both been lonely and emotionally isolated their entire lives finding solace and happiness and comfort in each other, finally finding a true connection and someone who understands them, but only getting to be together for all five minutes before the story rips them apart. and for what? what is this trying to say? what is the point? what is the point of doing that to either of them? how does this serve the story? what is the purpose of this? the tragedy and the depressing ending of the prequels is purposeful and intended and is done to make a point, because it's the story of a fall from the very start, by design, by its very premise. the tragedy of umineko is purposeful and done to make a point because it is about how these tragedies happen, and why, and the human behaviors that lead to them. how is it a good ending and how does it serve and complement anything in the rest of the saga to have one tragedy and one happy story with a bittersweet ending be concluded with a hollow pretension of a happy ending where one main character is miserable his entire life and dies when he’s still young after only a taste of the happiness that’s been denied to him, and the other loses her soulmate and is alone and surrounded by people who she herself said don't really know and understand her? taking on the name of a more famous family as if that's the only way she can forge and identity and meaning for herself?

ben's death actually had me so down and so sad i can't even be angry, honestly. the rest of the movie was full of dumb shit, it's like 80% mcguffin chasing with barley any actual character development or any substance and meat to it, rey-finn-poe have no chemistry because they were never supposed to have because they were never meant to be the trio of the movies until oscar isaac convinced jj to let poe live and that messed everything up because the thematic trio of these movies is finn-rey-ben, rose being sidelined because we need to please the racists who are threatened by her existence i guess and her relationship to finn ignored, the absolute waste of all the new characters and the incredibly stupid hux reveal that's also for naught right afterwards, rey's force lightning, the chewie death fakeout, the entire final battle being a big mess, finn not doing anything interesting or meaningful, the general weird bizarre baffling writing and dialogue choices and how it reads and plays out like something completely disconnected from not just the rest of the trilogy but the entire 9 movies and feels like a messy rough draft that a completed screenplay, and the all over the place pacing and everything... i would have accepted this is a weird, entertaining, fun movie if it weren't for the horribly depressing ending that makes what the creators apparently thinks is a happy ending ring terribly hollow and make me unable to find any joy in it. it's just so depressing i don't have the energy to even be fired up about hating it and i sincerely cannot for the life of me understand why it went this way. how is 'if you're miserable your entire life and make bad choices because of it your only way to redeem yourself is to sacrifice your life and have your one chance at happiness taken away from you because you don't deserve to live past your attempts to fix your mistakes and don't get to have a better life for your efforts'? how is that supposed to mesh with the rest of the story? how is that hopeful or uplifting or anything this saga is supposed to be? what even is this movie about other than the old and tried and redone ten million times 'believe in yourself and the friends you made along the way' message that means nothing at this point?

so yeah. thing bad. and i don’t even have the energy to be salty or angry. i’m just sad and disappointed and depressed about it all. and you know, coming from me, i’m very lenient and can find the good in nearly anything and can appreciate a lot of flawed and otherwise messy media for what it tries to do and for the good it does have. i love all the movies in the saga and i’m still a prequel fan. and the fact that i found this to be so disappointing and unsalvageable and tried to be positive about it and failed should tell you something.

anyway i'm going to go get a warm blanket, some ice cream or other comfort food while i go watch tlj again to cleanse myself and remember what good movies made by people who understand what's important are like, and maybe go watch marriage story and whatever other stuff adam driver is in, and find a way to watch knives out again, and then binge on the most self indulgent reylo fanfic i can find and a lot of fix-its to heal my soul. i'm not going to stop liking or caring about star wars, or this trilogy, which had one very pleasant solid movie and one excellent and fantastic one, and plenty of other good content out there, just because the last movie dropped the ball so hard, but i am going to stew in my sadness and angst about it for a good long while.

#tl;dr [deep sigh]#textpost

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xpersonality · 5 years

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What are some different versions of the INFJ personality type?

INFJ's shadow side: darkness and anger

In the unlikely event you have betrayed an INFJ, cut deeply through their hearts then watch out - because nothing is more frightening than seeing one get their all. Afterall, Jesus was apparently an model INFJ. That's right. Beware the scorch. You get him angry and he'll go locust on your arse.

Of course, everything below is 'worst case under-developed' INFJ anger cases. It isn't what INFJ's do all the time. It is, extremely rare. Most have the patience of an iceberg waiting for hell to freeze over. Or a turn the other cheek style. But for those of you who want some insight into the darker, shadier side of an INFJ ...venture down below, i dare you. --- INFJ Anger style: The incorruptible ninja on a vendetta:

It means facing your fears and exposing the grittiness of your own human existence. Sound familiar INFJ? Okay, it sounds like martyr-dom and yes, it is. An INFJ knows ALL about martyrdom.

In extremely threatening cases, an INFJ can go all angry ninja style on anybody's arse. And i mean emotionally. They will cut you up and hang you out to dry. Emotionally. That is the key word here.

He we won't stop until he's wasted your emotional landscape, and neither will we. INFj's at their weakest or best can be like double edged swords, yes we can see deep into people's hearts, their motivations their good qualities, mirror their thoughts, actions and their desires to bring you relief or joy. INFJ's listen not only with their ears, but with their heart, they can process and nurture people's good qualities instinctively and mirror your what you want to hear. They are capable of forgiveness even of those with heinous crimes on their records, because yes - they know instinctively that everybody is human, all of us are interconnected and we all make mistakes, an INFJ has an uncanny ability to recognize that everybody is just a mirror of themselves. The best INFJ's carry a karmic awareness at all times.

However, INFJ's can also see through people's weaknesses, their motivations, their dark sides and their 'secrets' if you will, we watch carefully how they treat strangers with ill will, and notice if they treat their friends with kindness or if they are self serving. With that knowledge they back it up like a hard drive. They remember. How they use that information, is up to them. That choice, is what makes them grow or go backwards.

God forbid anybody come across an INFJ, hell or highwater because once you cross them - at best they will drop you like a hot pan and dissappear regardless of how long you've known them. At worst, be prepared for having all your insecurities and fears gutted and exposed. And they make sure you remember. They can dive deep into your heart to inspire you, but like that double edged sword they can cut straight into your heart with their words. They tell you the truth exactly as it is, whilst you are still grappling with the fact they knew how you felt all along, they expose all your ugliest motivations to air and for all to see. INFJ's are adept at understanding the language of the human heart and what it wants and needs on an intangible level. They are expert emotional anthropologists. They understand boundaries and will not tell people how you feel, what is on your mind. This is because they know this information is precious, of course... until the shit hits the fan so to speak and then, they reveal everything about you. The ugly you. Every. Ugly. Detail.

They get under your skin and let loose slowly and methodically (yep, there's that organization in action) anything they know about your weaknesses, everything they use turns it a kind of melodramatic piece of theatre relaying everything from your sexual indiscretions, faults, lack of listening skills and weaving it expertly by making sure every one of your emotional weaknesses are exploited. They hone in on your fears at the present moment and creatively exploit them for full effect, targeting fears, anxieties, guilt and expertly play them like a symphony. They understand the darkness in themselves and they recognize it in you.

Hell hath no fury like an INFJ scorned. Subtle, slow and insidioius is the scorned style of an INFJ. They can get creative with their scorn - they might have the dignity and coldness of a queen while they exploit your weaknesses. They personally tailor each and every remark for full emotional effect. They may tell you calmly and caustically why you cheated them and explain your insecurities in front of a large group of intimate friends whilst you sweat, hiding their motives behind dry wit and humour. They will adjust their level of scorn for whatever is appropriate for your character. If it's a quick, derisive comment or a long confession of your insecurities - they will know which button to press to get to your heart. If it's guilt they want to summon, they know what to say to make you feel it, they'll remember an event or a whisper of an insecurity you have and they will bring it up. They remember the nuances in your dialogue, your emotional landscape - they remember your weaknesses and in an organized (judging) manner, categorically shoot each and every one of them down till they are satisfied you have sated their need for justice.

The scariness (or genius) of an INFJ however lies in the fact that they know how to adjust the temperature of their perceived hurt so that the other person feels the full effect of their remarks. Just as they can easily take the emotional temperature of a room just by walking into it, they know that getting completely angry is ineffective. So they manage their delivery intuitively, depending on your character so that the recipient has no room to retaliate - an INFJ instincitively knows if they expose a certain insecurity in you and say something softly, it is more effective than going completely a-wohl. They skirt over your anger and any issues they know will completely provoke you to not listening at all. They want to expose the truth, come hell or high water and if that means you feel reduced to something like a small child - totally exposed and a little humiliated, so be it. They will broach the topic carefully, throw in a caustic remark - you might not be able to retaliate to because the topic for you is so personal. It is completely tactical. They want to expose you remember, so they think carefully about the delivery of a remark and it's intention before it comes out.

You know that secret you told them when you first met them with an open heart and open mind? If you've deeply betrayed them, they will remember it, bring it up and flippantly tell you they weren't really listening, and they didn't really care for it if that's what it takes to hurt you.

The purpose? The truth of course. The phrase, 'Shed light on your sorry ass', has never been more apt.

This is the darkness and shadow of an INFJ.

On one hand, the capacities described here can be unhealthy INFJ behavior. On the other hand, my perspective is that they aren't unhealthy when one is dealing with, say, an abuser or a sociopath.

I've only ever had to take one person down using my capacity to systematically uncover and tell them (that person) the truth about the ugly underneath their mask. My primary goal in that process was to stop the person from harming me. My secondary goal was to do everything I could to ensure that the person would be unable to harm others like me in the future.

I know I succeeded in the primary goal, and I do believe I also succeeded in the secondary one. I have no regrets about acting as I did. I think we should use these capacities if they are ever warranted. I hope that it is never warranted - but if/when the need does occur, IMO it's not necessarily a bad thing that we can be dangerous when truly crossed by people who do harm.

This doesn't have so much to do with any of this other then the shadow emerging in an INFJ discussion point. I've been wanting to share this song with PerCs for a while, and was waiting for the "appropriate" time. This obviously is not that time. But I'm sick of waiting, don't want to make a thread, and the shadow topic is sort of relevant, depending on how you choose to interpret Maynard's lyrics. Please enjoy. I hope you can see the dots I see connecting this all.

Excellent post, Kermi. I know this about myself. I hate the fact that I "gather information" on people like I do, and "back it up" like you said, but I do. That's why I have always worked on controlling my anger, because, if I get angry enough, and someone pushes me past the whole "glare at you, and become deathly quiet" phase, then I can destroy someone with words, and alienate that person that hurt me, or made me angry.

I do what I can to love people, but rather than backing up information (I do that anyways, just subconsciously) and using it against them I like to attack them on the mental level by asking questions (haven't had to yet). Why did you do that? Does it feel good to do that? To behave like that? Why do you feel the need to behave this way? Does it make you feel better than an animal? Does it honestly make you feel like a better human being? Don't you feel that you're better than that? Or are you better than that?

If there is a physical retaliation (haven't had one yet) I plan to do what I can to defend myself depending on how the situation is. If it is simply a fight, then I will only do surface damage, but if my life is threatened then I plan on doing damage, possibly internally.

I'm rarely confronted by people who were initially so honest after seeing me lash out. The person that usually confronts me tells me that I choose such harsh words, and that I succeed in helping them assume a feeling of lowliness, guilt, ugliness, or a whole list of other negative things. They usually seem to be saying this against their will or even in tears... I've just made the person miserable.

To be blunt: I recount and retell each and every last thing that was done and I highlight all the mistakes and disadvantages of such. Wether I use cursing, crude language, or any derogatory remark is irrelevant. The way I present what I say is made with as much coherence as I can use to arrange the information and the conclusion is just as painful to hear.

Some people get hurt more than others, but I don't think anybody wants to hear things like these... Sometimes somebody shows that they don't care if about what I'm saying when I'm lashing out and I can't really see it in their face or movement, but they were affected in a powerful and irreversible way, and the pattern of their behaviors towards me seems almost permanently altered. They will avoid me A LOT. They will hesitate to say things to me face to face but would rather say things behind my back. I got what I wished for: to be left alone; but it sucks!

I can't forget the times this happened. I can't forget who told me this, or who didn't tell me this but showed me how terrible what I've said was. I remember how they told me, and I remember sensing how their aura that radiated outward seems to be going inward instead.

This is why I'd much rather withdraw and leave when I'm angry.

Original notes:

The purpose? The truth of course. The phrase, 'Shed light on your sorry ass', has never been more apt.

This is the darkness and shadow of an INFJ.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Oh yes, I am familiar with this darkness all too well. Between a friend I had to leave for being too unstable and a sick INFJ mother, I've learned to actually train myself to deal with this hurt.

What these two have in common, for better or worse, is that almost nobody takes them seriously at this point. The fact of the matter is most INFJs dominated by their shadows are not well-liked people. Their destructive behavior will always be stopped sooner or later because nobody likes them. Well balanced and happy INFJs? Oh man, friends, lovers, and family like no other. Sick, shadow side ones? Disregarded by most people because they're often seen as irrational.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've only ever truly raged out once and it was much more physical than this thread describes, but it was very much the same pouring tirade of caution-to-the-wind hate. I still count myself incredibly lucky that the man at whom it was directed wasn't where I thought he'd be because I don't know what I'd have done if I'd found him.

But I still think he'd have deserved it, so I have no idea if you'd call it unhealthy or not. I do know that a part of me takes pride in the show of aggression. I think that's something all INFJs have inside us, a beast-like desire to rip apart the things that hurt us. I think that's why we bring up topics like this. We're proud of the vicious parts of ourselves. We paint them as weakness, but see them see them as strength. And we want to show off that strength.

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bthump · 5 years

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Excuse me what did you mean bitterness, hm did you meant Casca? Casca happy about getting Guts away from Griffith or her having Griffith for her own ? I personally feel she likes both around but feels far away from Griffith when Guts is around . Quick question, alternative version what if Griffith fucked Casca and not Charlotte ?

No, in this post I mean bitterness as in, the Hawks who realize that Guts and Griffith’s miscommunication drama led to them being miserable and on the run for a year instead of living it up as nobles and war heroes in Midland should by rights be very bitter about that lol.

Corkus, Judeau, and Casca all have both sides of the story: Guts left to become Griffith’s friend and equal, and Griffith crashed and burned because Guts left. They theoretically know that Guts and Griffith could’ve solved everything by telling each other how they feel. I mean, how could you not feel some resentment when two dudes completely ruined your lives and indirectly killed a bunch of your friends because they couldn’t talk to each other?

The Casca Griffith Guts love triangle is a separate thing and not what I was referring to there.

Also I’m not sure I can really answer your question in a satisfying way, because to Griffith Casca and Charlotte aren’t really interchangeable. I don’t think there was ever a possibility of Griffith going to Casca after Guts left instead of Charlotte. In my opinion he slept with Charlotte for 3 potential reasons:

1. She essentially represents the dream to him. After Guts leaves this is essentially Griffith retreating to his coping mechanism in an irrational way, trying to prematurely seal the deal on his dream in an attempt to convince himself that driving Guts away for the sake of that dream was worth it.

2. She believes in his facade, and Griffith is trying to hide behind that mask to repress his emotional vulnerability. To Charlotte, he’s idealized and invulnerable, and he wants to be that version of himself. Sleeping with Charlotte here is a form of emotional repression too. “Take all the sad and frightening things and cast them into the fire.”

3. Basic human need for comfort from someone who loves at least an aspect of him, after being made to believe that the person he loves rejected him.

Of those three reasons, Casca could only potentially fill in for the last one. She doesn’t bring him a step closer to his dream, and she’s seen behind the mask and knows he’s vulnerable. And I don’t think Griffith wanting physical comfort from someone who loves him is enough to get him to sleep with Casca. Partly because I see Griffith as gay so imo it’s gonna take more than that to get him to fuck a woman, and partly because sex with Casca would only reveal his vulnerabilities and also probably ruin another relationship.

If he did have sex with her, like idk maybe Casca takes it upon herself to stick with him after the duel and they get drunk somewhere, she kisses him, and in his drunk miserable state he’s like ‘well this might as well happen, I don’t consciously know I’m gay and maybe this will help me forget about Guts for a few hours,” then I imagine the next morning would be extremely awkward, Griffith would tell her it was a mistake and he’d rather they pretend it never happened, he’d go back to wooing Charlotte cautiously, and he doesn’t end up in a torture chamber but he does end up emotionally isolated and disturbingly repressed, focused solely on his dream and convincing himself that emotional attachments are a weakness.

Casca would probably regret it when it makes her friendship with Griffith weird and strained. Plus lbr the sex would not be any good. Maybe it would even get Casca over her crush quicker lol. Or help her realize she’s gay.

#Anonymous #ask #a #b #het//#lol sorry if this isn't an answer you wanted #i dislike every possible het relationship in berserk so i'm never going to be able to speculate about them positively really #but ty for asking and i hope this clarified that other post :)#headcanons #canon divergence #ship: griffith x casca #idk about tagging this as a ship lol but the point of tags is to find stuff easily so w/e #character thoughts

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mswyrr · 5 years

Text

Jo Martinez thoughts

I really like her. I thought the writing was stronger on the front half of the season and took some missteps on the second half, though.

I really liked how it started out - she’s a widow in her 30s, so she’s alienated from other people in her age cohort who have partners and kids. Hanson, for example, tries to reach out to her, but there’s a barrier there. She can’t share the parent stories, or the married people jokes. And if she goes by his house for dinner his family would be wonderful to her, but it would be, for her, like watching all this happiness that was taken from her. In addition to being just sort of awkward... what do we talk about? What do we have in common?

Are they going to pity me and try to hide it or try to push me to get back to living sooner than I can so I’ll have to feel guilty about that?

In the middle of that experience, the two people she bonds with the closest are outside her age group. First there’s Henry, who’s in a similar spot as her: seemingly 30something, should be living the prime of his life, but he’s basically a widower and the grief is still fresh for him because of how time passes for him and his lingering questions. He instantly understands where she’s coming from. He offers quiet understanding and acceptance that she feels. He tells her the things he himself has struggled with doing, like finding a way to really live again after a bereavement. But he doesn’t push and being around him doesn’t feel raw with guilt or pity or awkwardness like it does with other people who seem to be her same age.

I LOVED all of that. It recognized that if certain tragedies or other things befall you in life, you can end up as alienated from your “proper” age cohort as Henry is from people who are the age he seems to be. That was some thoughtful writing IMO. I’ve definitely felt that myself. For other reasons than Jo’s but it was still satisfying to see that acknowledged - and so lovely how it created a bond between these two people who were otherwise so different.

Jo then bonds with her lieutenant, Joanna Reece, over the guy she had to kill and the burdens of their chosen profession. Reece is older and has a perspective that, again, is accepting. She knows when to understand and when to push a bit. They hang out together at the shooting range and it feels like real companionship. I really liked that. I wish they had continued to develop that: what if throwing herself into work and wanting to rise (to take an LT test herself or something? Forgive me, I don’t know how the NYPD works) was part of how Jo coped?

Instead, well, first the plotlines mesh up, with Henry having to kill for the first time in 200 years - that switching of roles, where suddenly she’s the “expert” in this grief and able to lend him acceptance and advice was really great. Dovetailed well, allowed Jo to have her own story but also... well, you know, Jo is to Henry what Ash is to Michael over on DSC: well written love interest (though Jo IMO started out as also a second lead and that felt like it waned a bit? IDK.) What’s happening to them has to relate to what’s happening to the lead because that’s how narrative economy works

I thought it was a rather elegant way of making it work though. So it was all good up to that point! And they could have gone some other directions with the echoes/resonances, maybe dealt with Jo’s family more? Since Henry’s story is all about family in this lovely way. IDK.

But then they made what I felt was their one major misstep, which was starting the romance plot full gear for her *before* the “secret reveal” plot. Henry’s prior major loves, Nora and Abigail, both found out after they were in love with him and responded according to their own personalities (Nora was a very normal person who couldn’t handle it, Abigail had the inner grit to embrace it, though she did struggle too as she got older especially).

Okay, so they’ve done that pattern twice - woman falls in love, finds out. Why not let Jo find out as a close friend first? Keep the romance on a slooooow boil. Let her go through all the wonderful angst and complexities of being in on the secret as a dear, close friend. Becoming part of the kin group: I especially think her and Abe would have a lot of bonding to do. Abe has been quite lonely in his singular role of knowing and looking out for his dad. That could have been lovely! And then she could, over the next few seasons, actually be unique: the first person to fall in love with this guy knowing him as he truly is, rather than having to adjust after.

I particularly would have LOVED if she’d actually got to spend some time knowing that he was like her, a widower who feels displaced in part because of that loss. Instead it’s all just this subtext that she feels the depth of and we get but she is not allowed to understand.

It would also mean that when Henry finally discovers that Abigail is dead for certain he would be able to turn to Jo about that and we could get that from another angle, their bonding as a widower and widow. And, for his part, I think Henry needed to be shoved into the deep end IMO re: having his secret revealed and letting go of control on his end and then choosing to stay and deal with that with Jo.

Instead, in keeping the secret from her so long and turning up the flame on the romance from her pov - well, it keeps her sidelined from what is the real emotional/thematic/plot core of the show. So she has to be in the unfortunate role of being lied to and deceived at every turn, of playing a barrier to plot progression, someone to be gotten around. And, since Henry isn’t letting go of control, her falling while he’s still lying to her feels like the power dynamic emotionally which was so keenly balanced and lovely goes a bit wobbly.

I was delighted that the finale ended with her pushing for real answers! And I felt Abe’s “tell her!” in my bones. But even if that had been the first plot of S2, I do still think the choice to have the romance plot heat up faster than the secret reveal would have been a less than optimal option. For my tastes.

No shade on the series: it wasn’t a fatal mistake or terribly awful or anything. But I did feel like they kept all the plates spinning better in the first half of the season. Still, I really enjoyed the special stuff they did with her story (an actual 30something “displaced” from time/her age cohort vs. our lead who just looks like it) and I liked the romance in theory and in execution most of the time, just not as much in the final arc of S1.

#romance #jo martinez #forever abc #my meta #forever meta

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symphysins · 7 years

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Have any other good fics for us???

sorry this took a while to reply back to. i’ve been compiling this for a while.

since you didn’t specify what kind of fics, i’m gonna give like a smorgasbord of different ut fics i love w/ a blurb of stupid commentary from me :’D

(be warned, snas is my fav so a bunch feature him/are centered around him.)

(also be warned that not everything i like may be ur cup of tea, so make sure to read the tags/warnings.)

longpost under cut. ready? here we gooo~ ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Universal Displacement by knowmeknot: A forgotten doctor once theorized that when the same event occurs at the exact same time in two separate universes, they converge for a single moment and something… spectacular happens. A destabilization maybe. Or a merge. Or better yet, a displacement of two similar but different entities.

one of my favorite kedgeup things is when ut!sans or uf!paps lands in the other’s universe, and this fic expands on this idea rlly well.

A Lack of Brotherly Love by Askellie: After a brutal series of genocide runs, Sans wakes up in an alternate universe where the monsters were saved, everyone is on the surface and the future looks bright…except the fundamental difference in this universe is that its resident Sans never loved or supported his brother. As a result, Papyrus is a lonely outcast, unable to fit in and scarred from years of emotional neglect.And Sans isn’t going to let that stand.

i desperately want sans to punch the fuck out of dr.serif. and then go give poor paps all the hugs he deserves.

To Love Yourself by undertailsoulsex: UF!Sans fights with his brother and doesn’t know what to do with himself. He ends up traveling to the Undertale Universe where he meets the kindhearted Sans and Papyrus.UF!Sans has to come to terms with his depression and his newfound feelings for the other skeletons.

this fic emotionally destroyed me… but in a good way i swear! it’ll lead you on a rollercoaster of feels, but it’s worth it.

It’s A Long Story by RiseiTekiSensei: a soriel series detailing toriel and sans’ relationship in the underground and aboveground. i really like how both of them have their own issues, and how they support eachother through those issues. i also love how head over heels sans is for toriel.

A Fortune Cookie For You by Darkhymns: “In bed” jokes are the lowest form of comedy. So, of course, Sans and Toriel love them.

the jokes man. the jokes are the best.

Never a Lovely So Real by Kaesa: The city of Ebott, 193X. The market’s down, the crime rate’s up, and Sans is just trying to make a buck and keep an eye on his brother by working for the Dreemurr crime family. But after the Dreemurrs rescue a human child from their rival gang, the Flower Boys, Sans soon finds himself in way over his head. (Well. Not that that’s hard.)

i love all the research put in to make this mob au fic really authentic. reading the little anecdotes at the end is rlly fun.

Our Skeleton by yastaghr: The people who love him come to realise Sans may be hiding something from them.

this. this is the fic that really got me into sansgoriel. royal goats showering tiny skele in love is the best.

for queen and country by tealmoon: Being the Judge of the Underground isn’t just a job, it’s about being chosen to carry out the infallible will of the Royal Family, to keep chaos and crime at bay, to protect all of Monsterkind.

And for Papyrus, it’s about being helpless, and afraid, and alone.

us!paps suffering: the fic. somebody give this skele a friend. pls, he desperately needs one.

Fired Up and Bone Weary by perniciousLizard: slowburn domestic sansby series. sans is written so in-character and grillby is really fleshed-out as a character. there’s tension and drama here and there, but it still feels mellow overall. reading this fic feels like sitting next to a warm hearth.

These are our Days by Rehlia: Two days ago, you said goodbye to your best friend. Yesterday, you lost your job with no prior notice. And then today, you had a fight with your mom. So that’s your day today. Lonely, fighting with your mom, jobless. Perfect Day for a drink or two, right? What’s that on TV about monsters?You didn’t expect the monsters to accept that application for a social media job you sent them while you were drunk. Now you’ve suddenly moved to Ebott and spend your days hanging out with monsters, documenting your weird new life, and marvelling at how different monsters and humans can be - and how similar.

god, i love all the worldbuilding in this fic. the little things about monster culture are so great. this fic really makes me invested in monsterkind’s integration on the surface. and the build-up to the sans/reader relationship rlly makes it all the more satisfying.

Tend to your memories by Rainbow_Sprinkles: Post-Pacifist after many, many resets. Explores political, social, and personal facets of monster integration into human society. Begins in 211X and spans over many years. Political and social climates have undergone major shifts from those of the present day. Character development and platonic-familial relationships receive the most attention. Major motifs include health, medicine, and science.

realistically, i think a lot of the ut cast have been traumatized in some way, and this fic explores that very thoroughly. i think my favorite part about this series is the frisk, flowey, and chara development.

Kingship, And What Comes Next by CatKing_Catkin: This is the story of the Underground after Sans hung up the phone, after Papyrus took the throne. There’s no one left to guide him, no one left to look up to. Papyrus doesn’t want to let anyone down, especially not Sans when his brother is working so hard to support him. Sans doesn’t want to let Papyrus down, when his brother really is all he has left.They make mistakes, they miss one another, but together, they try to figure things out.This is a story about growing up, moving on, and what’s important in life.

this fic managed to take one of the saddest (imo) endings and turn it into something hopeful.

lest ye be judged by nilchance: in an alternate universe, asgore became something like a parental figure to sans and papyrus. the whole series is wonderful, and i love the relationship sans and asgore have.

Tsum Papyri by BarkingPup: In this world there is only Papyrus and… more Papyrus

the super sweet tsumtsum au made by zarla turned incredibly horrifying.

Overextension by MaxieSatan: Strength and weakness are not mutually exclusive, and neither one always looks the same.

i like reading fics about undyne & sans, bc you really never see them interact in game. it’s interesting to think about how they’d act around eachother.

Late Night Snack by EvilZebra:

Tuesday 3:55 amRUDE SKELETON: did he ask you to help too

RUDE SKELETON: he did i can hear more pots dying

RUDE SKELETON: pls spare my ketchup it does not deserve this

papyrus cooks at 3 in the morning. sans and undyne suffer.

social links by simplycarryon: Friendship’s pretty neat, or so your video games and anime dictate. But you are not an anime protagonist, and you’re not sure you know what friendship is any more.

i love sans and alphys being science buddy friends.

Angels in the Underground by joliemariella: 200 years ago, angels were banished from the surface world after the commander of the heavenly host, Asgore, declared war on mankind. Now, young Frisk has fallen into the Underground and must conquer the angels’ seven trials if she, and the angels themselves, are to have any hope of escape. Along the way she meets Sans, a wounded seraphim who agrees to guide her through the trials at Toriel’s request. Friends are made, history unfolds, and Sans comes to hope again.

monsters with wiiiingsss. also seraphim dad sans is best dad.

Butterscotch and Bones by kaliawai512: Toriel promised herself she would never leave the Ruins. She had to stay there, to make sure that if a human fell, she could care for them - even if she couldn’t stop them from going to their deaths in time. But now and then, leaving is inevitable. The Ruins have only so many resources, after all. This time, before she heads Home from her latest expedition, she decides to stop and check in on the asocial Royal Scientist who was once her good friend.

She doesn’t find him.

She finds two other someones instead.

FLUFF. SO MUCH FLUFF. some sad, bUT THAT ONLY MAKES THE FLUFF SWEETER. this fic is like a balm on the soul from the hurt of the handplates au.

Under the Veil by poplasia: Sans has gotten himself stuck in the void between worlds in a successful attempt to stop the resets of his timeline. He’s not sure how long he’s been chillin’ alone there, but eventually a chance at escape stumbles his way in from the Veil of Death. His name?—Sirius Black.

crossovers are great. crossovers with two of my favorite fandoms are even better. i’m really excited to see what these two pranksters will do next.

Missing Child Case by StoryCloud: Against all odds, the police find the four-year old that went missing around the summit of Mount Ebbot. A story from a child’s perspective has many interpretations.

it’s really rare to see fics that deal with neutral route endings, so this is a nice treat. also the fact that frisk is only four puts things into a diff. perspective.

The Best of Times, the Worst of Times by ABadTime: Set immediately after the pacifist run, the dark history of the skeleton brothers begins to surface when everything that held them together unravels, leading to the revelation of dark and transformative truths.The Best of Times, the Worst of Times sees the rise of heroes of unusual stripes in the face of unusual traumas, and explores the value of relationships in unusual times. The True Labs hold a great many terrible secrets only some of which have been able to reach their conclusion.

leaves you hanging on at the edge of your seat at some points, and has a satisfyingly happy ending. not to mention super cool gb!sans.

a lesson in grief. by ohmygodwhy:

you’ve got pressure dripping off your shoulders.

or: sans tries to deal with some things.

let’s end this off with some of that sweet, sweet sans suffering. one of the first few ut fics i read. the ending was like a punch in the gut.

#paperbeanbag #ultra mega long fic rec post!#hope you like it?#i could scream on and on about how much i love fic #there's even more fic i have bookmarked but this post was getting too long #if anyone wants a more fontcest/skeleton centered list i could probs make one

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evakuality · 3 years

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(1/7) Hello! I’m the anon who wanted you to share the rest of your thoughts on s5. Thanks, I love to read your meta :) So my main issue about s5 is nora/josh relationship. I don’t like how they were handled all in all in this season. Firstly I want to declare that I love mazzouk they are adorable and davenzi are absolutely special for me (‘cause this platform is quickly to judge ppl for racism). So. For me nora/josh is the weakest couple of the show so far.

(2/7) It was such a disappointment for me ‘cause Druck was always so good in creating romance! If I trusted druck in smth for 100% it was definitely the love story. Wow, I liked all the druck couples (not equally though but I liked them all). They even made their noorhelm likeable. And I swear I hate every other version of this couple. I think the main key to make relationship believable on screen is communication.

I’m putting this behind a break because we both got quite lengthy here!

(3/7) I may not know what the couple is talking about but I have to see them communicating and getting to know each other. And I think the first global thing I don’t like in nora/josh relationship is the lack of communication. They met ONLY TWO times before the First Big Kiss (fridays of ep 3 & 4) and had only one qualitative talk (friday ep4/saturday ep5). Then nora rather quickly begin to not feel.

Before the friday of ep3 nora had no idea who the «mystery guy» was and she didn’t consider josh as somebody special. (4/7) When did she fall in love? Idk. I understand s5 had a little space for romance because the main topic is nora’s mental health, and other big topics (machwitz sisters and mom, becoming friends with cashqueens) also require screen time. But why on earth the writers made josh so emotionally dependent on nora??

(5/7) I hate how his line "hurt me please it’s way worse without u" was framed as smth sweet and romantic. Because it is not. It’s unhealthy and even terrifying :/ And I want to point out once again they didn’t communicate much. They literally know each other so little (sidenote: nora even had no idea what to draw on his hoodie), why josh after so little time is so unhealthy attached to nora?

(6/7) Maybe without this I could accept them as a couple and make my peace with them ‘cause they’re cute and actors have chemistry. I hoped they would work on their issues separately, get to know each other properly and maybe in later seasons reunite. What a huge disappointment the end of s5 was :// I like you are not so happy with their reunion too. Excluding the love story I really enjoyed the season, ofc it has flaws but not as big as this one.

(7/7) Machwitz sisters were also my favorite part. Sorry for my English. And i understand if u won’t post my message, it’s ok :) I don’t want u to deal with angry anons. Have a good day :)

Thank you for this, anon! I was hoping I’d hear back from you about your thoughts. While I didn’t sort of put this all together while I was watching (since I did it in such a wide space of time) I do agree with a whole lot of what you’re saying. I think for me it’s a combination of pacing (I am really stuck on the pacing of the whole season actually) and trying to do two things with this relationship.

What I mean by that second part (because I have ranted about the pacing way too much already haha), is that the show needed to show two things with Nora’s relationship: 1, that she was trying to use Josh to ‘feel’ something and kind of idealised what being in a relationship might be like as a way to take away the pain she was feeling from other things, and that her mental illness was sort of mirrored in her relationship, and 2) that they thought they had to have a ‘good’ ending to the relationship. Which baffles me a little because the Hanna/Jonas relationship shows really clearly how this can be tackled and also that a character not ending their season in a romance isn’t a bad thing, and can be really important for their growth.

So anyway, imo they did a far better job of showing just how destructive this relationship was for both of them (your comments about how Josh wanted to be hurt show this) and how important it is to work on yourself and put yourself first in a situation like Nora’s. It’s quite clearly not good for either of them, and that scene in Josh’s room when she’s so weird really hammers home how with all the will in the world and even with the ‘right’ person, a relationship isn’t going to work if you feel like you have to pretend to have interest in your partner’s passions. Of course, this may be a hangover from Constantin’s efforts with her, but again we don’t know what that was like because we’re never really told, and so it just looks like Nora is being cold and aloof. Now, of course, we are absolutely aware that Nora does like Josh and this is all to do with the mental illness that’s taking her over. And yet... it does show that this is not the right time for this relationship. And also, in his shoes, I’m not sure what I’d do with a girlfriend who’s acting like this, as if he’s a bit of a nuisance.

I understand what you’re saying about the communication, but I think we’re supposed to read into the length of time they spent together at certain times as a time when they were learning about each other. But I do think it’s better to see that on screen at least more consistently. But that all ties into the way I feel about this being something Nora kind of rushed into because she was already starting to feel off when she met him. The way she kissed him first to try to deal with other issues really shows just how much she isn’t ready to be with someone for real. That real/fake thing she had going on the whole season really leans into this part.

I stand by my comments about her deciding to be alone being more mature and healthy and that I really, truly wish that had been where they left it. They’re a cute couple, she was getting to know him and he’s definitely a better fit than Constantin. But his desire to ‘be hurt’ isn’t good, and putting them back together so soon was a mistake imo. He needs to also figure out why he’s so willing to give up so much of himself to be with her. We still don’t really see her actively enjoying his interests, and so we still don’t know how good a partner she is for him. And he tried to be a good partner to her, but his efforts were all things that worked for him without any real understanding of who she is and what she needs. So again, there’s a lack of proper connection and development there.

In my ideal Nora and Josh world, we’d have seen her trying out the relationship as a way to feel something and to salve the stuff with her family, as she does in the show, but we would have known much more clearly that it’s very unhealthy and that it’s not good for either of them. We would see his desire to be with her at any cost to himself as something he needs to work on and we’d leave the end of this season with them split up, but knowing they do both enjoy each other and being open to something later on when they’re both ready to have something. Because imo where it stands the same issues and problems are there. Saying ‘we’ll take it a minute at a time’ doesn’t work if they haven’t each figured out who they are and what they need from a relationship.

So ideally, because I do like them and I do think they’re nicely matched, I’d like to have seen a Josh season a few months down the line where we see him working on those issues and we see him slowly working out that his needs are also important and then we’d see them coming back together. We’d see them being more open and vulnerable and learning each other truly. Instead we got this rushed ending that I didn’t find satisfying. And that’s still my biggest beef with a lot of stuff this season - it’s too rushed in the end. It all needed more space to breathe, and in this case they needed more space to learn about each other before getting properly together.

#again I want to reiterate that I did really enjoy this season #but it has flaws and there are things I wish had been done differently #but then I can say that about all my favourite seasons

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