#bucky is a victim not a villain
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Hi! I just saw your post about how Bucky’s rule number two should have included him, and I totally agree with everything you said about that. But something that stuck out to me as odd about the whole rules system thing is, it seems more like something a psychiatrist would use to treat someone who didn’t have a good moral compass or some other issue like that? I could be wrong but “don’t do anything illegal” and “don’t hurt anyone” kind of sound more like things they’d say to someone with anger issues/sociopathic tendencies/other conditions with which harm to others and/or deviant behavior is a possibility. The show seems to imply that he was suffering from PTSD though, which doesn’t match up with that? I don’t know, I thought it was weird.
Thanks for the ask nonnie!
I won't pretend to be an expert on therapy methods but your point is solid and I've seen it mentioned a couple of times by people who do have a background in psychology. (As an aside, difficult anger control can be a part of PTSD - unfortunately it's the way a lot of men have been socialised to deal with fear and anxiety - but that's really not the way Bucky's been portrayed.)
Contract setting within psychotherapy is usually a good thing, because it sets clear professional boundaries and also means both the therapist and client have a common list of goals to work towards.
There was this chain of posts before (in case the gif doesn't work) but I agree. Look at the gesture she makes as she says "With your history, the government needs to know that you're not gonna..."
This is such a fundamental misunderstanding (or misconstruction) of his role in Hydra and of the actual nature of his mental health problem. Bucky's history is one of being tortured, mind-wiped and made to obey orders. Neither the Winter Soldier nor Bucky was ever aggressive until he received the commands to be.
This iconic scene of The Soldier sitting placidly in Pierce's kitchen when someone entered the scene unexpectedly, and Pierce had to execute the maid himself. The Soldier did not inflict violence until ordered to. The only time he was aggressive against command was when he had flashbacks to his capture. And in Civil War, Bucky was only ever shown to be "aggressive" when forced to defend his own life (Don't tell me self-defence is now a mental health diagnosis).
From a therapy perspective, you're right - those rules are about curtailing someone's actions, whereas Bucky's problem was more about learning the confidence to make choices. This isn't someone who's going to act out, he's had 70 years of being tortured and conditioned into obeying orders. This is someone who's going to hesitate about committing to a choice, he's going to defer to others as much as he can, and maybe as he grows more confident, he starts making some questionable choices that tends to position his own well-being last because he's been trained to think he's the least important in the equation (and with a unhealthy dose of guilt).
From a narrative perspective, this was intended to reinvent Bucky as a "bad" super soldier, cos "there's never been another Steve Rogers", and paint Bucky as someone who would regularly do illegal and violent things, and is so sarcastic about the rules (because -- that's the least of his problems!)
#tfatws critical#bucky barnes#bucky is a victim not a villain#bucky deserves better#bucky barnes meta#tw: ptsd
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imagine if the mcu was good
#sorry i had fatws on while drawing and got mad again lrjhglkjfhlgjk#hate hate hate that when bucky's the macguffin thing to rescue/fight over he can be a victim who bad things Happened to#but when he has to be a Guy With Lines they're like. oops he was a villain actually yeah he uhhhh has to be REDEEMED#he DID the bad things it was HIM he has trauma about the things he DID and lets not talk about what was done to him hahahahahaha#fuck off! fuck off! they put the winter soldier in onscreen therapy and did nothing with it fuck off!#they're just not interested in telling any story about anything or anyone and it's so tiring. reset the universe to 2014 and leave me alone#kayvswords
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@luna-rainbow I didn't want to derail OP's original point, just wanted to say again how impressed I am that Bucky never gave in to Hydra, not in 70 years of torture; he never worked for them willingly. They had to electrocute him, use trigger words, drugs, beatings, brainwashing, freezing, and biochemical mind control (via experimentation on Bucky himself, if the implication from the Black Widow movie is to be believed) to get him to work for them. And after all that, they still never trusted him completely (see: all the guns trained on Bucky when he swiped that technician away while they were repairing his arm in CATWS), because they knew that, in his right mind, Bucky would never obey them. (Heck he still chose to save Steve before he knew who he really was 🥺) And he was still the best super soldier they had 🤣😭
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Why is it so hard to recognize him as a pow who needed to be tortured and brainwashed continuously to comply??// THIS!!! The amount of mental and physical torture they put him through was so severe that most people would have succumbed without having their personality and memories erased. I would have understood someone giving in and complying rather quickly actually, and they had years. But, no, not Bucky. Bucky was so good and so strong they could never touch his moral compass. They had to delete him, and they had to do it over and over again because he continued to fight his way to the surface. They knew he would turn on them the second he got his memory back, which is why they were shitting bricks when he started to question how he knew the man on the bridge. How can anyone watch these movies and say that Bucky is a villain? It’s mind boggling. He is actually better than most of the heroes. The fact that he blames himself is heart breaking and he deserved to retire WITH Steve who recognized he was innocent!! Gah!!! How could the writers mess up so hard?
#could not agree more nonnie#bucky barnes is a victim not a villain#and I will gladly die on that hill#bucky barnes#minnie answers
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if i see one more person calling bucky barnes any kind of a villain, i will lose it
#bucky barnes#winter soldier#captain america#marvel#captain america winter soldier#captain america civil war#he is a victim#never the villain#VICTIM#its not that difficult
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BUCKY IS NOT A VILLAIN!! I will die on this hill STOP saying he is. The word you are looking for is VICTIM.
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I am never going to be over what the movies did with Steve and Tony's dynamic, because- listen, listen. The reason Civil War was (supposed to, it was kind of a hot mess) hit so hard in the comics was that these two were *best friends* and had been for decades of comic time. In the movies, they never are friends, so Civil War is just two colleagues who never really got on, and not the devastating tearing apart of a long-established friendship group.
Dude I literally burst out into like... outraged, furious laughter in the theater when Tony said, "I thought I was your friend?" because, umm, footage not fucking found?
I completely get and respect the comic readers here for whom Steve & Tony and Steve/Tony were, in fact, the best of friends! But the MCU never ever actually showed it.
To cram that line, which felt lifted from the comics, into the MCU was genuinely laughable. How could Tony possibly think he compares to what we've seen of Steve and Bucky's relationship, since childhood even if you don't ship them, as the only person Steve has left from his entire life pre-WWII? How could Tony possibly think he compares except through the lens of a galaxy sized ego and being totally self-involved to the exclusion of all else? How could any work colleague, since that's what they are at best when not outright antagonists to each other in the MCU, think they'd compare to a childhood friend in danger, that Tony is actively putting in danger? Who Tony is blaming for the death of his father despite the fact they've got piles of evidence that Bucky was a mind-controlled prisoner of war being actively tortured at the time?
It's literally staggering, it beggars belief that this line was uttered. And wildly enough, it's not even my least favorite line in Civil War. (That one goes to Vision's stupid fucking comment about how strength invites challenge, basically victim-blaming the superheroes for having villains, which only possibly makes any sense if you ignore Thor, the greater galaxy, all of the infinity stones, and basically every other part of the MCU timeline before Steve Rogers got the serum, Christ that line makes me mad.
Oh, and the line about Tony just handwaving signing the accords because their lawyers can fix it later as the most boneheaded line of insane privilege I've ever heard. Kids, never fucking sign something just because you can supposedly fix it later, christ it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.)
ANYWAY, I have major beef with Civil War's logic. It never should have happened where it did in the MCU. Cap 3 should have been dedicated to its original plot before they found out RDJ was staying on in the MCU and they had the pieces to make Civil War (the original was the hunt for Bucky and an examination of Captain America's legacy through the lens of Bucky killing off the pretenders the US government set up to be him over the years, and I still weep that we never got it) But I do honestly, deeply, have sympathy for comic fans and why they're mad about the Steve and Tony friendship never actually appearing on screen in any meaningful way.
Civil War shouldn't have happened then. Civil War is a plot you run now, when you've got the rights to the X-Men and too many damn characters running amok. Civil War would be perfect now for pairing down some of the ballooning MCU nonsense. The cast was literally not big enough circa Cap 3 to make Civil War. And I'm eternally bitter that they pivoted away from the smaller-scale Cap-centric movie we should have had and instead made another Avengers movie in its name.
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I found your twilight post with the Lin Kuei brothers amusing and relatable 🤣
Can you do headcannons on watching marvel movies with the reader? Captain America is my favorite character in the movies lol
The MCU is huge so lmk if there was something specific you wanted to know about
Bi-Han
I don’t see any of them watching a lot of movies so you definitely introduced it to him
He takes the longest time to finish the movies because it’s not on the top of his list when it comes to concerns
He’s one of those overly critical watchers so he’s annoying as fuck to watch movies with
I can see him liking Ultron
Why? I think he’d like the concept of Ultron and understand why he’s thinking the way he is
The type to agree with Thanos until someone points out he could’ve just doubled the resources
His favorite Phase is Phase 3 purely because Hela is his favorite character in the entire MCU
He’s legit upset she was killed off
I’d say which show is his favorite but I only watched Wandavision and TFATWS so moving on-
I don’t know if I see him reading the comics. Maybe if he’s curious enough
The Avengers and The Guardians of The Galaxy are pinned against each other a lot, but what does he think?
I think it changes a lot. Depends on his mood
One thing’s for sure; he prefers the OG Avengers
Not one of those Marvel fans that remembers everything and he doesn’t really stay up to date
Hasn’t even watched any of the shows yet
Please bring Hela back and stop pissing him off. She ain’t do nothing wrong
Quick afterthought
He’s Team Cap
He don’t even wanna listen to Liu Kang. Why the fuck would he agree with the government controlling The Avengers?
Kuai Liang
NOT one of the overly critical watchers so thank fuck
If he spots something that’s off, he’ll call it out but that’s as bad as it gets
He likes a mix of villains and heroes
If the villains got a point, then they got a point. That’s just how it is.
He likes villains that can become better people. The pure evils ones he’s like “yeah you suck” but villains that are actually victims or who have done certain things but try to become better, he likes
Because of that I’d say his favorite villain is The Winter Soldier
He’s done terrible things but Kuai Liang feels pity for him and enjoys his story
I think either Avengers or Civil War is his favorite movie
He prefers the og era of the MCU and I think the Avengers as a whole reminds him of his family (petty as fuck towards each other but there’s ultimately love there) and Civil War was a banger
A situation where there’s technically not a right side is a topic I can see him liking
With that being said, he is both Team Cap and Team Ironman
Since he follows Liu Kang I can see him being like “sometimes teams need to be reined in and need someone to follow”
But in the same breath this is the same government that is corrupt and has proven themselves as not trustworthy
And people could always die before the heroes are able to help
Then there’s Bucky and he once again understands why Steve wouldn’t tell but he also understands Tony’s anger
He stays somewhat up to date when it comes to the new movies and shows
He knows when they come out but he doesn’t see them right away
Tomas
I can see him staying up to date and seeing the movies whenever he could
Has possibly read some comics too?
Prefers Heroes
Do I wanna say his favorite character is Spider-Man because the PS5 Spider-Man voices Tomas?
Yes
So that’s what imma do
Does he have a favorite Spider-Man?
I’m not sure. I can see him seeing the positives and negatives of all the Spidermen
Team Cap for the accords
Team Ironman for the Bucky situation
His parents were killed so are we surprised? No
The type to see the positives of Phase 4 instead of just saying it’s shit
Is it the best? No. But it’s not all ass. Damn.
He prefers the Guardians so when Gamora was killed, his heart was in SHAMBLES
“Maybe Gamora and Peter can fall in love again”
I have bad news
Favorite Phase is always changing. Each Phase has bangers and non bangers so it changes day to day
I know I said he loved all the Spidermen but his favorite movie is probably a Tobey Maguire Spider-Man movie
Do not tell him the Avengers are more like coworkers than family. Do not fuck up his day
He likes found family movies so he enjoys the movies that focus on the groups
#mk1#mk1 2023#mortal kombat 1#bi han sub zero#bi han#kuai liang scorpion#kuai liang#tomas vrbada smoke#kuai liang mk1#kuai liang headcanons#bi han headcanons#tomas vrbada headcanons#kuai liang x reader#bi han x reader#tomas vrbada x reader#tomas vrbada#mk1 headcanons
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Round 2
Propaganda Under Cut
Pepper Potts
So many fics make her bitchy and controlling for absolutely no reason she deserves better
So for this we have to think back to like... peak Avengers MCU era. I am sorry. Back when Avengers had just come out it was BRUTAL out there for anyone who didn't like Tony/Steve (Tony Stark, Pepper's canon love interest, and Steve Rogers aka Iron Man and Captain America). While the ship itself is like, fine, it got sour so fast because Pepper was demonized SO much. When she wasn't completely sidelined and ignored, she was a cheater or an abuser (??) or what-have-you in fics so the two men could get together. It's much better now and last I heard Pepper gets some of the love she deserves (bc we do love women in this house!) but oh MAN it was bad back then. TBH all MCU women were treated like garbage by the fanbase but she got the brunt of it because she was in the way of The Most Popular Ship. She was just too #girlboss I guess
Frequently villainized for being a canon love interest for Tony Stark. Often portrayed as a Nag, constantly bothering him about doing "work" for his "company" when he could be working on inventions or spending time with his love interest! Sometimes she just Doesn't Understand Him, inconsiderately pressuring him to stay out of being a hero instead of being who he really is; only the m/m love interest really understands him! Or maybe she's the aggressor, who took advantage of the power imbalance between her and her poor innocent *checks notes* boss in order to pressure him into a relationship he didn't really want where he was treated terribly, and only his m/m love interest can save him from her! Pepper deserves better!
Sharon Carter
she “got in the way” of stucky shippers, in the comics she’s like the love of Steve’s life
When she first appeared she was unfairly treated by fans for "getting in the way" of the Steve Rogers/Bucky Barnes ship. A shame because she's a really good character. I'd talk more about how unfairly Sharon, and her actress Emily VanCamp, have been treated by the fanbase and the creators, but that's a different story.
She and Steve Rogers were meant to have a romantic relationship, but the entire fandom and many Stucky fans dislike her because it wasn’t a good ship. I think she isn’t the best but she doesn’t deserve so much hate
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The past always catches up - Halloween
This story was written for @jtargaryen18's Jamie's Halloween Challenge 2023
My prompt was: The Unexpected Visitor: On Halloween night, an unexpected visitor knocks at your door. It's not a trick-or-treater but something else.
Square filled for @buckybarnesbingo: U2: “I knew it was you.”
Summary: The Unexpected Visitor: On Halloween night, an unexpected visitor knocks at your door. It's not a trick-or-treater but something else.
Trope: Villain Reader
Pairing: Winter Soldier x former Handler!(fem) Reader
Warnings: angst, fear, implied revenge, mentions of Hydra/Bucky’s past, implied/past abuse/sexual abuse on the Winter Soldier, hand around throat, no happy ending
Rating: Mature
Words: 1,1 k+
Kinktober vs Flufftober 2023
Life is funny, isn’t it? How does the saying go? The past always catches up.
You can run. You can hide. You can change your name and appearance. But you cannot run away from the guilt you feel, nor the sins you committed.
In the waking hours, you regret your doings. And at night, you have nightmares. You can see every soul you ever hurt. Guilt is eating on your body and soul.
You’ll never be able to wash away the sins sticking to your sin.
How many souls did you doom? How many people did you condemn to commit crimes in the name of an organization so evil that its name alone plants fear into people's minds?
Hydra.
You’re not an innocent victim. Back then, you willingly worked for them. It was the money they offered that made you forget about morals and your humanity.
Growing up poor, but with a sharp mind and ambitions you’ll never be able to reach without money does this to people. If you see a chance, you take it. Sometimes you sell your soul on the way.
After Hydra fell apart, you realized how evil the people you were working for truly were. Until that day, they protected you at all costs.
Being one of their only experts on mind manipulation made you irreplaceable to them. That was, of course, until you made one mistake, and their most important asset managed to escape.
The Winter Soldier.
Your voice and gentle words didn’t lure him in any longer. The asset learned that you are just another monster keeping him hostage. He broke out of the chair during your last session and killed every soul trying to stop him.
You’re the last handler alive. The only one he didn’t kill…yet.
He’s out there, waiting for his chance to get his hands on you. You know your time is running out. The moment he stepped out of the darkness to join forces with Captain America, you knew your life was over.
On the run, you barely have the time to catch your breath until one of the Avengers shows up. More than once you barely escaped.
You’re so tired of running away.
Night terrors keep you awake, and you’re slowly losing your mind.
Every shadow looks like him – the man you forced to do unspeakable things.
Not only in the name of Hydra.
No. You abused your powers and made him your compliant toy. On the cold nights, when you were stuck at the Hydra base, when no one was around but you and the asset you found shelter in his lap.
He wasn’t himself. It was wrong. But you already crossed so many lines you didn’t care about the consequences.
What’s one more sin? Right?
If the dark side inside of your soul already consumed all the light left, nothing is keeping you from taking what you want. And you wanted him.
That’s in the past. Now, that you had faced the consequences of your doings, you know every step you took, guided by Hydra, led you down the road to hell.
Your soul is lost. There is nothing you can do about it but sit and wait for the end to come.
If you can see his steel-blue eyes one last time before you take your last breath, it will be enough to let you rest in peace…
You found shelter at an old, abandoned Hydra hideout. You’re the only soul left knowing about this place.
It’s not much, a cabin that’s falling apart, and nothing but trees around. It’s cold, and the fireplace isn’t working as it should.
You’re used to hiding in such places. There’s no place for luxury and coziness in your life. That’s in the past. You don’t deserve good things in your life.
It’s past midnight when you wake from another nightmare. You wheeze and press your hand to your heart, inhaling and exhaling slowly to calm your racing heart.
Cold sweat makes your clothes stick to your skin, and you shudder at the coldness creeping into your bones.
Glancing at the new burner phone you huff. It’s Halloween out of all days.
You slowly slip out from under the covers, hissing as your feet touch the cold floor. When you are about to walk toward the small kitchenette a knock makes you freeze.
It's not a trick-or-treater, that’s for sure.
Holding your breath, you turn around to stare at the door. You press your hand to your heart and close your eyes. God forgot about you years ago, but you sent a prayer, nonetheless.
This is it. The moment you’ve been waiting for.
Your feet carry you toward the door on their own. Muscle memory is a handy thing. Isn’t it? Even if your mind is a mess, your body knows what to do.
It’s like your body is drawn to the person knocking at your door.
Your trembling hand grips the door handle, you take a deep breath and open it.
“I’ve been waiting for you, Soldat.” He’s as surprised as you are as you look him straight in the eyes. His face is hidden by the mask you know so well, but his eyes give away his excitement. “I’m glad you finally came to collect.”
The Winter Soldier dips his head. This is not what he expected you to do. You’ve been hiding from him and his allies for years. And now, you stand in front of him, shivering at the cold.
You’re not the powerful handler he remembers. “I knew it was you,” he says. His voice sounds different but as dangerous as ever. “Steve didn’t want to believe me. He said you are dead.”
“He’s not wrong,” you reach out to grab his mask and rip it off his face. “My heart is still beating but I died years ago. I’ve only been waiting for you to end me.”
“дорогая (darling),“ he growls before lunging forward to wrap his metal hand around your throat. Your eyes drop to his arm, focusing on the new color as he squeezes your windpipe. You close your eyes and embrace the darkness. “Goodnight…”
Part 2
Tags in reblog.
#winter soldier#buckybarnesbingo2023#jamieshalloween2023#bucky barnes#angst#the winter soldier x fem!reader#hydra reader#dark elements#The past always catches up - Halloween#kinktober vs flufftober 2023
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It's all part of the same game if you think about it. The audience hates Project Insight because it's Hydra and Hydra are the bad guys. But Ultron was supposed to be a "suit of armour around the world" and Edith has a funny nickname and "oh, isn't Peter such a nice kid". And the Accords only wanted to "hold the heroes accountable", they're not that bad.
What's the difference really? Framing.
Hydra was attacking Steve, Sam and Nat. They hurt Bucky, they almost had Fury killed. They're the bad guys. And...
They're framed as the enemy. So naturally, everybody sees them as such.
But Tony is not treated this way because we don't know his victims. His time as an arms dealer is completely forgotten like it never happened. The Sokovians are barely a second thought to AoU, not even Pietro's death matters besides a blink-and-you'll-miss-it picture of Clint's son + Wanda losing control for a moment. Not even in CW does she say anything about her own brother and the only discussion is about the death of an American. Tony's guilt doesn't translate into "shit, I made Ultron behind the team's back, this is my fault". It's "let's make this a team issue so that the responsibility is shared. And oh, Steve is so bad, isn't he?".
As for Edith, at no point during FFH is the existence of such a device discussed. Not even once. The drones are only used by the villain and we're supposed to believe that as long as that weapon is in the right hands then it doesn't matter if we sacrifice civil rights for "safety".
Zola's words during TWS apply to Stark and everything he did post-NYC invasion. Does it make sense character-wise? Sure, it does. Stark was unwell, he had been traumatized, etc etc. Cool, I get it. But why the hell does the narrative support everything he does instead of calling him out on it and stopping him?
He was okay pre-AoU but, man... he became insufferable afterwards.
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Hello! I noticed you have a lot of posts analyzing the details of marvel movies, and there was something in the Winter Soldier that I thought I’d ask your opinion about. No pressure for a response!
This is about Alexander Pierce’s little speech in the bank vault scene. It seemed kind of weird to me when I saw it. You wouldn’t talk to a soldier or a professional operative like that, it kind of sounds like he’s talking to a child. He uses language that will be personable - “I need you to do it one more time” - instead of making general statements on behalf of the entire organization. One explanation for this in my opinion is the brain damage Bucky had. I’m wondering how much that had an effect on the way they treated Bucky, and how he may have perceived their treatment of him in his own mind?
Thanks for the ask! Sorry it took me 3 days to get back to civilisation LOL
My impression of that scene changes on a regular basis 🤣 The scene is very ambivalent and whatever interpretation you have would be based on your own headcanons for Bucky. Some people point to this scene as proof that Bucky had a choice in what he did. Some people see this scene as Pierce taking advantage of his physical resemblance to Steve.
My assumption for Bucky is that the brain frying meant Bucky struggled with complex information and wasn't able to make complex decisions.
My most recent view is shaped by a story from a psychologist about someone who had a background of trauma, and their protective mechanism was to completely disintegrate who their sense of self was. They acted out what other people expect them to do, without ever knowing who they were or what they wanted for themselves. The person was a "people pleaser", who always said whatever made people happy even if it was conflicting information, "because they were afraid of punishment", not because they wanted to deceive or manipulate others. If you asked them something about themselves - their wishes, how they felt, what they thought, they couldn't answer because the identity doesn't exist.
It...reminded me a lot of Bucky, who was forced to have his own identity erased to become the Winter Soldier.
Your work has been a gift to mankind. You shaped the century, and I need you to do it one more time. Society is at a tipping point between order and chaos. Tomorrow morning we're gonna give it a push. But, if you don't do your part, I can't do mine, and HYDRA can't give the world the freedom it deserves.
I think the way Pierce approaches him is using a few tactics:
When someone is a shocked state -- which Bucky was in, because his mind was in overload from seeing Steve and having some of his memories come back -- they often respond better to tone of voice. Pierce takes a quiet, intimate tone of voice with him, which helps give an illusion of closeness.
When someone is in Bucky's brain injured state, they also tend to respond better to simple phrases rather than something complex and abstract. Pierce does speak in abstracts, though -- and quite possibly Pierce knows Bucky wouldn't have the capacity to process the more complicated phrasing that are blatant lies. Bucky would understand the simpler sentences. "Your work has been a gift", "I need you to do it one more time", "if you don't do your part, I can't do mine". It is pertinent to note that these instructional sentences are much more straightforward in their wording and easier to follow/obey.
If we take Bucky as someone who doesn't have a sense of self, there is no anchor to what he knows or wants, so the only thing he can responds to is positive and negative messages from outside. Pierce first gives Bucky a carrot "your work has been a gift" before applying pressure. And...my other headcanon is that Bucky is driven by loyalty, which boiled down to its essence is a need to please and protect those he thinks are his people. He's not capable of making his own judgement in this state, so he relies on people he trusts to tell him what's right to do. It's also pertinent to note that what Pierce says gives nothing for Bucky to hang onto about what himself -- he's not given any hint about his identity, his previous beliefs or wants, and he's not given an opportunity to speak. "This is what we want and you've always done the right thing, so you'll do it again, right?"
Pierce probably also knows that Bucky's loyalty is to persons, rather than to organisations (Bucky being not keen to join the army is a good indicator that he doesn't get swept up by crowd sentiment and tends to be loyal to the few people he believes in). This is another reason why Pierce would take a personable tone with Bucky rather than speak about the organisation. It is also interesting that Pierce invokes "freedom", which is something more representative of Steve, but perhaps a word that Bucky responds to because of its familiarity.
I don't think that this scene indicated that Hydra or Pierce was kind to Bucky though. Many abusive/exploitative dynamics will have these little islands of superficial kindness between long periods of abuse and depersonalisation. If anything, it was clear from what followed ("Wipe him") what Pierce offered was an ultimatum, and abuse victims are very good at recognising an unspoken threat even if it's presented in a friendly tone. Pierce gave Bucky the illusion of a choice and Bucky's expressions indicate he understood what the "choices" were - do what he was being asked, or go through the wiping and be made to do what he was asked. Nevertheless, Bucky chose defiance, because when Steve called his name, he suddenly had an identity, whereas with Hydra he didn't, and that was important to him.
#bucky barnes#bucky barnes meta#got carried away sorry#long post#meta#asks#bucky is a victim not a villain#tw abuse
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I'm working on this fic where I'm trying to write an emotionally dark take on post-Winter-Soldier recovery, where Steve & Co capture Soldier-Bucky right after the events of Insight, when he's still almost entirely in the grips of Hydra's programming.
I loved this Sebastian Stan quote someone shared on here: “That’s why he doesn’t kill him. That’s why he saves him. That end scene to me was always like: ‘I don’t know what this is, I just know I’m supposed to do this right now. Whatever this is, I’m supposed to protect this for some reason.” I love the heartbreaking urge to protect Steve being impossible to erase or repress despite everything, but what stands out for me is also that this confirms what his expression and act of walking away seem to say on the riverbank: he has no idea what the hell is going on. His brain didn't go "OMG STEVE" and switch him back over to Bucky Barnes in that incredible final moment on the helicarrier—the wall of programming just got its first tiny crack.
It drives me crazy that the Soldier walks away after saving Steve—he wants to know why he saved him, how he knows him, obviously, but he walks away from the simplest way to find those answers-STAY WITH STEVE, drink hot chocolate under blankets with steve!! It also drives my fangirl heart crazy what a stubborn resilient competent independent SOB post-WS Bucky is. He doesn’t trust anyone and he doesn’t want anyone to own him ever again.
He’s got conflicting lines of thought that lead to the same conclusion: He’s programmed to kill Steve, those are his final standing orders, and obeying orders is all he knows. If he wants to keep Steve safe on some level, he knows that won’t be with him, because of those orders, because Hydra owns him. On the other hand, if he’s realized that Hydra is his enemy, he also knows that SHIELD is Hydra, and Cap is affiliated with SHIELD, and thus can’t be trusted to keep Hydra away from him. And/or he disobeyed orders and abandoned his mission, and he doesn’t know why, but he does know the consequences for doing that, and thus has a lot of resentment for the guy that made him do so.
To be clear, I love the Bucky Barnes character and I think any narrative that casts him as a reformed villain who needs to make up for his past actions is bullshit. He is a victim, not only of what was done to him, but also what he was forced with zero agency to do. Having said that, I’m also totally riveted by the Winter Soldier as a bad guy, a threat, a killer. In the MCU movies he goes off after the Insight debacle and somehow deprograms himself all alone, and the next time we see him in Civil War he’s got his sense of himself as Bucky pretty much back—he’s in control of his actions, he knows his and Steve’s history, and he doesn’t want to hurt people. I’m stuck on what else the story could have been instead of the hand-wave transition from brainwashed murderer to Steve Rogers’ loyal friend. The only traumatic encounters with the Soldier Steve experiences are those in the movie where he’s actively trying to kill him, which that’s definitely bad enough for poor Steve—but what about traumatic emotional encounters? What about Steve Rogers trying to talk and reach his friend, but the person he’s talking to is the Soldier immediately post-Insight, still mentally in Hydra’s possession much more than his own?
Anyway one day this little scene came to me and I'm building this WIP, including these notes, around it. Successfully? Who knows, not me.
He regarded Steve through the glass with a hint of curiosity. His voice was soft and quiet. “Why do you come?”
Steve leaned forward and tried to meet those icy eyes. He couldn’t help it. “You’re my friend. You might not remember me, but I will always be your friend.”
The Soldier tilted his head, still questioning. “That’s why you come here?” Every day, Steve thought he heard unspoken; he wasn’t sure whether Bucky registered his presence at all some days, but maybe every instance was recorded in his mind. Maybe not. What happened to a supersoldier brain when it incurred severe sustained deliberate damage was a riddle they were just beginning to examine.
Steve was determined to be steadfast, but there was little he could do to calm the intensity of what he felt. He wanted Bucky to ask these things, because he wanted him to know these things, and he would tell him again and again forever in the hope he would one day believe him and then remember himself.
“I’m here because I want to know how you’re doing. I want you to know I’m here. I’ll come every day unless you tell me honestly you don’t want me to.”
Still the cocked head, the mystified expression. “You come because…he was your friend.”
He leaned in an inch more and found his forehead touching the glass. “You’re my friend. You are Bucky Barnes. You were born in 1917 and we grew up together. You are a good man. What happened to you…was wrong, and I will do everything I can to make it better, for the rest of my life. That’s a promise.”
The cocked head straightened and it looked like some kind of comprehension dawned. He was looking at Steve in a way he couldn’t remember Bucky ever looking before, and after wondering for a few moments Steve realized it was pity on his face.
“You think he’s here.” The look of pity intensified. “You think you...can talk. To him.”
Steve swallowed. “I…I know he is. I don’t know how to convince you it’s true, but I swear it. We played together as kids and then we grew up and lived together and then the war came and we fought together. And now we’re here. I know you don’t remember, Bucky, but there’s no way I’m giving up on you, even if you never do. I know you. I’ve known you as long as I can remember.”
On the other side of the glass Bucky’s expression had settled into the blank resignation the Soldier often wore. He licked his lips, an oddly human gesture that hurt Steve’s heart, and then said, with what might have been an attempt at gentleness, “Your friend. Is gone.”
Steve took a moment, felt his forehead press a little harder on the glass. “If he’s gone, who am I talking to?”
“What,” the Soldier corrected, and then answered, “Hydra.”
He was going to need a lot of punching bags later. “Emotions don’t help,” Natasha had told him, brisk and flint-hard the way she was when she was being kind. “Men think they understand this, but they don’t. Understand it.”
Steve was beginning to understand. He didn’t howl or pound on the glass or leave to find a fight. Instead he swallowed again and asked with a calm that shocked him, “So you…believe in Hydra? In what they do?”
“The Soldier is the fist of Hydra. Weapons don’t believe. They do not need to. The Winter Soldier. Is. Hydra.”
That was the most the Soldier had spoken in one go.
#fanfic ramblings#cookin in my stewpot#post-winter soldier fanfic#steve rogers and bucky barnes#captain america and the winter soldier#struggling with how much i should make him be mean to steve lol#and for how long#and I have a little brainworm that Tony finds out about his parents a different way while the WS is in custody in stark tower#and him and steve fighting causes the soldier to break out to protect steve#🤷🤷🤷#what happens next?? eww i have to write it to find out???
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What's your sticky spot for the old Hollywood fic? It's so interesting to me where things get stuck.
Thanks for the ask! And also for the incomparable @booksandabeer, who asked after this as well 😘
I can’t let this Stucky Old Hollywood idea go—the aesthetic alone!
I’m not an AU writer so the only way I could do this concept is as canon divergence where the Barnes family moves to Los Angeles rather than Brooklyn when Bucky is a kid—and Bucky becomes a child star. So Steve and Bucky don't meet.
I’ve been slowly working out the concept and completing the foundational research, but lately I’ve fallen into a really meta place around the question: would Bucky still have been drafted?
The quick version of the historical context is that, unlike later drafts and most iconically the Vietnam draft, WWII-era conscription was conducted by local boards that assigned each registered man a lottery serial number (not the same as an army serial number) after all the completed registration cards were shuffled.[1] Bucky would have registered in October 1940 under the Selective Training and Service Act[2] and could have been called up in any of the three drafts: 29 October 1940, 17 July 1941, 17 March 1942.[3] If Bucky was in a different part of the country—and in consequence subject to a different local board’s instance of this random number assignment process—odds are he would have been assigned a different random lottery serial number, which means he could have been selected in an earlier draft, the same draft or not at all. And there’s no logic for how he would have ended up with the 107th.
And here’s where it gets meta. Because narratively Bucky is drafted to be a foil for Steve, who can’t join the military despite desperately wanting to. And Bucky becomes a POW to motivate Steve into the action that transforms him from a performer to a combatant, thereby achieving Steve’s—and the narrative’s—vision of idealized masculinity. And Bucky falls off the train to push Steve into more radical action against Hydra, which culminates with him putting the plane into the water. Bucky isn’t doomed by the narrative. He’s doomed by Steve’s narrative. In the original work, the pre-TFATWS MCU, Bucky’s suffering only has narrative meaning because of its effect on Steve. And you can argue that things only occur in a story if they have narrative meaning.
Without having to be a plot device and motivator for Steve, Bucky is theoretically relieved of the narrative requirement of being a POW. He wouldn’t have to fall off that train.
But, at heart, fanfiction is a rejection of this model of narrative meaning. As soon as you create a Bucky-centric reading or write a Bucky-centric version of canon, then his suffering has the potential for intrinsic narrative meaning. And Bucky’s story of victimization and heroic resilience speaks deeply to a lot of people, myself included. Bucky lacks the protagonist’s halo of always beating the odds, of the doors always closing just after safely jumping through, of being able to close that gap and grab the hand reaching out for him, and of being looked for by friendlies and discovered as still alive in the cold. Of course, if Bucky was a protagonist, the serum would have kicked in faster; he would have broken his own restraints; he would have rescued himself and the remnants of the 107th.
But that’s not Bucky’s narrative function.
Bucky is so fascinating to me because his story doesn’t follow the pattern of male-hero-protagonist. He has a sympathetic villain’s narrative arc but then refuses to become a villain. So, in this revisionist analysis, Bucky is doomed and saved by his own narrative. And this is why I’m leaning toward Bucky still being drafted, even if his experience of the war plays out differently, but not making him a POW so long as the part of Bucky’s story that's about being controlled and dehumanized by larger forces can be transferred to a different part of the narrative.
I’ll sign off with this piece of inspiration about Mickey Rooney, an iconic child star of the era:
Mayer naturally tried to keep all his child actors in line, like any father figure. After one such episode, Mickey Rooney replied, "I won't do it. You're asking the impossible." Mayer then grabbed young Rooney by his lapels and said, "Listen to me! I don't care what you do in private. Just don't do it in public. In public, behave. Your fans expect it. You're Andy Hardy! You're the United States! You're the Stars and Stripes. Behave yourself! You're a symbol!”[4]
Sources:
1. World War II Selective Service Draft Registrations
2. The Selective Training and Service Act of 1940
3. Wood, Richard G., comp., Records of the Selective Service System, 1940-47 (PI 27); National Archives (NARA), 1951.
4. Wayne, Jane Ellen (2005). The Leading Men of MGM. Carroll & Graf Publishers. p. 246
#stucky#stucky meta#bucky barnes meta#thanks for the ask!#bucky barnes#bucky barnes needs a hug#old hollywood au
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Heroism in TFATWS
Let's establish one thing which is that the show operates in a superhero trope, which means there are good guys and bad guys, and the good guys always win. This is not to say that characters are morally clean-cut between good/bad. The Flag Smashers acted out of good intentions; Walker did want to do good things when he took over the mantle. But that doesn't mean they aren't the bad guys in the story, because a person is not only judged by their intentions but also the means and the ends of those intentions.
Sam and Bucky are the heroes in the story, they beat the bad guys (the Flag Smashers) and saved the world. That's how the story ends. That's how all the superhero stories end.
But the show isn't quite that simple, not in the sense that it deals with moral greys, no. Rather, the show really fucks up the boundaries between good/bad, right/wrong, and by extension, the heroism of the show.
Let's say Karli has some vague cosmopolitan worldview, and let's say that's better than the state system so Sam is justified to sympathize with her cause, and sam is rightfully asking the governments to be better. What's the actual, feasible way to achieve Karli's vision? Nice speeches notwithstanding, Sam isn't offering a solution. States aren't going to abandon the system that made them a state just because some hero dressed in an American flag descends from the sky and tells them to. Forced displacement and/or re-settlement happen because the population distribution is screwed, especially in Western Europe where Karli is from. Those states simply do not have the capacity, spatially and financially, to accommodate all the people while the others would be faced with devastating labour shortages. Statecraft is not just about morals, some IR scholars would even argue it's never about morals, you have to do the rationalist calculation. (also sam's speech to the politicians is so.........wrong. it sounds like a 16-year-old wanna-be socialist who spends too much time on leftist tiktok)
Here's the thing, you can agree with the political ideology or not, because it's not about whether it's right or wrong. It's about Sam being a hero who comes from a heavy political background, who represents a set of values that is meant to transcend a single country, advocating that ideology whilst being completely naive about it.
Steve embodies a similar idealism that makes him a hero, but not a leader. He's a leader because he can lead, he assesses the situation, sets a goal, and gives out tasks to achieve that goal. In the show, Sam is not demonstrating effective leadership, although not entirely his fault.
When you have the 'hero' indiscriminatorily endorsing the villain's philosophy, it doesn't mean the hero is empathetic, it means the hero is fucking bullshit. What makes a hero isn't merely stopping bad guys, it's also offering a better alternative even when the villain kinda makes sense. Superheroes are supposed to offer moral lessons through their heroism, which often takes place as they defeat evil. Without that, they're just dudes stopping fights, not heroes fighting for causes. The only moral lesson Sam offers is 'hey maybe radicalization is bad', which is completely ignored by both Karli and Zemo.
Sam's sympathy towards Karli is even more absurd. Even if he agrees with her cause, she's an unrepentant killer. 'Don't call them terrorists.' really, Sam? What would you call them? Just bc the Soviets fought the N@zis doesn't mean they were the good guys.
Furthermore, we see the contrast between her and the other flag smashers. They were invisible victims while her body was gently carried by Sam as phones and cameras were recording. In a show where they tried to make sense of racism, the stark contrast between Karli and the rest of the group happens to be mostly PoC is kinda hilarious.
The problem isn't Sam. It's the terrible horrible writing. You can't take a Watsonian take when it's so obviously a Doylist problem. The show claims to be a lot of things it got wrong is just pathetic.
What about Bucky? His arc is pretty detached from the main storyline and he basically did nothing significant in the show so I don't even know what they want to convey about his heroism. He was literally just running around punching people (not even very good at it too) while being blamed for things he wasn't responsible for. He only told Karli that killing was bad. What a novel lesson. Again, there is nothing from the good guy.
Who is the hero then?
Zemo is the true anti-hero of the show. Throughout the show, Sam and Bucky - the good guys - oppose killing in general, but their method is proven ineffectual and in the end, all Flag Smashers are killed with a majority of them killed after they were lawfully arrested. The Flag Smashers were terrorists, they were the villains, therefore narratively, this makes Zemo's end goal - killing all supersoldiers, in this case, the Flag Smashers - right. His ideology - the desire to become superhuman cannot be separated from supremacist ideas; supersoldiers cannot be allowed to exist - is positively reflected in the story. His success inevitably justifies his ideology, which stands in contrast to both Sam and Karli. I'm not saying what he did was heroic, but from a storytelling perspective, Zemo is the 'hero' who ultimately eliminated the evil in this superhero trope.
The result is that Sam, the supposed hero of the show, has done nothing. He didn't stop the bad guys, he didn't offer an effective alternative to Karli (or Zemo) practically and ideologically, while Zemo did all that. What does it say about heroism and the idealism that comes with it? That it's nice to talk about but useless when a real battle takes place? That end does justify means? Because that's not what Cap trilogy conveys.
#if you don't agree you don't have to engage. just so you know.#sam wilson#tfatws#bucky barnes#baron zemo#the falcon and the winter soldier#the show is bullshit ok?#cosmopolitanism in itself is controversial#being proposed by captain AMERICA is outright ridiculous#ofc point a gun to ppl's head and force them to leave their home is bad#but it's also too simplistic#just to give her a justification#as long as states exist there will never be free flow of population#not even within the EU not when there's a global crisis#so I'm asking again#dear kari and spellman#how exactly do you propose that to happen?#zemo my man you have done nothing wrong in your entire life xxx#also sam saying 'i'm a black american wearing an amarican flag so i must know all about suffering and discrimination' is just laughable#do the showrunners know that other countries exist????#bro have you lived in a country where you can be arrested for saying all that to a politician?#marvel needs to stay out of politics#for their own good#also I have classmates who were part of the UN peacekeeping troops. painting them as terrorists isn't doing anyone any favour
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Bucky Barnes is not a ‘bad guy gone right’ he was never the villain he was a good guy captured experimented on tortured and brainwashed he was a victim who doesn’t need a redemption arch and all he needs is some goddamned rest and Steve
#stucky#bucky barnes#anti MCU#the fact that this is the characterisation they’re going with post EG is so tiring#marvel needs to die
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