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feysandarcheron · 2 years

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Why Elain’s Drawer Means Azriel is her Mate

There’s a lot of posts on the roses on elain’s drawer being a hint for Elriel, but I haven’t seen much on the point I want to make, which is the roses on Elain’s drawer aren’t just elriel endgame symbolism, but a concrete indicator they’re mates. I’m not sure this will make sense, but I’ve always thought this and wanted to share. The argument: Fate is the actor behind the drawer paintings, foreshadowing who the Archerons will become and who they will be mated to; therefore since Elain’s drawer foreshadows elriel, it means they’re fated to be together, which means they must be mates. First I’ll talk about fate in acotar, then how it relates to each drawer. *The assumption here is elriel are endgame and the drawer foreshadows elriel either way.

Fate in ACOTAR

A big theme in acotar is fate and the divine. The cauldron, the Mother, and perhaps others. These forces play extremely active roles in acotar. The whole concept of the mating bond is based in this. Because of that, much of what could be brushed off as the author simply using imagery to foreshadow an endgame actually could very well be fate (the cauldron/mother) acting as a character in the narrative to hint at a divine mating bond at play.

Feyre’s drawer

Feyre painting the night sky on her drawer is obviously iconic, because she did it long before she met her mate, high lord of the night court, and because she ultimately became high lady of the night court. This was not simply sjm planting this image for readers to pick up on; this was sjm writing fate as an actor in the story. Because later we learn Rhys sent her that image through the mating bond. So the painting of the night sky isn’t just a little piece of symbolism on sjm’s part; it’s sjm saying the cauldron or mother was behind this. It’s fate indicating a mating bond. It’s fate hinting who feyre will become and who she will be mated to.

Nesta’s drawer

Feyre often acts as a prophetic tool to foreshadow something for the reader. So that she painted flames for Nesta is significant because her power ended up being silver flames and because Cassian is constantly described with fiery imagery and red-ish siphons. It’s interesting that sjm might’ve made nesta’s drawer flames because she was going to end up with lucien, so when that didn’t happen, she went out of her way to connect Cassian to flames too. It tells me sjm wanted to connect the drawer not only to the sister but to her LI. And obviously Nessian ended up being not only endgame but mates. In my interpretation, fate is behind feyre painting flames for Nesta. I don’t see the flames being a just a symbol to show Nesta is fiery. I see it as fate playing an active role in the story by hinting who Nesta will become and who she will be mated to.

Elain’s drawer

If fate was behind feyre painting stars for herself and went on to become HL of the NC and mate to the HL of the NC, and fate was behind feyre painting flames for Nesta who went on to have flame powers and mate to someone described with fire imagery, then it would follow that fate was behind feyre painting flowers for Elain who will go on to be connected to flowers and mate to someone connected to flowers. We know flowers connect to elain, specifically roses, recently. Who is most connected to that? Azriel, with rose hall and the rose necklace. So if fate is 1. the one who creates mating bonds and 2. the actor behind the drawer paintings, which foreshadowed feyre and nesta’s mates, then why would elain’s drawer foreshadow azriel, who is not her mate?

Conclusion

I really don’t know if I’m making sense at all lol. Basically it seems to me the drawers have appeared so frequently (every book except acowar?) in some form, that I think fate has to be at play. So to me, the question is if fate is behind the drawer painting that foreshadows elriel, how would elriel be fated to be together if they weren’t mates? The answer is, I believe, because elriel are actually mates. And the drawer is showing fate/the cauldron/the mother at work, just like it was for feysand and Nessian.

#elriel

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illyrianhighfaerie · 1 year

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I'd love to know more about your take on Tamlin. I wouln't say I love him, he's done a lot of stupid shit. But I don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be. He's just a bit dumb sometimes lol.

Ohohoho, this is fun. (Edit after writing: sorry, it got really long, I didn't even get to the part where I talked about the tithe and the rest.)

I guess most of my liking for him comes from the fact that he was a character that was screwed up by S/JM. We all know the bad shit he has done to Feyre, locking her up, slut shaming her, etc, but then I remember Tamlin from the first book and he seems like a completely different character from the rest of the books.

He was retconed SO MANY TIMES.

He did offer to help Feyre to read and write, but that dumb bitch refuses rudely every single time claiming she didn't need his help. Tamlin sent her away when he thought she would be in harms way after he hadn't managed to get her to love him too, but she went UTM out of her free accord. He did try to help Feyre at UTM even after being sliced open with ash wood and bleeding all over the carpet and being week, with her understanding he couldn't do a lot, just for her, a book later, say he didn't help.

People love to bring up the way he acted UTM when than man was being watched and harassed every single second of every day, there wasn't a way for him to help Feyre without being killed or getting her killed too. So he sent Lucien, who he knew would be able to get to her. People forget that Rhysand spent 50 years gaining some sense of thrust from Amarantha to act so freely with his time.

No one talks about how he probably, and very realistically, was also super fucking traumatized by his life and what had happened UTM. He love Feyre. He watched her being demeaned and defiled every day by a man he shared history with. Watched her die. All the while not being able to do anything or he'd risk her safety too. It isn't far off to see why he thought that she was better safe locked up then out there to the shit storm that exists outside. What he did was messed up, but he thought it was the only way.

Then we all know how suddenly he became irredeemable on the later books bc S/JM has the habit of showing you explicitly who you should like and who you should hate. Oh, Rhys? You should like him, look at his tragic past and trauma that made him act like a dick to everyone and feel entitled. Oh, Tamlin? No no, you should hate him, look at his tragic past and trauma that made him act like a dick to everyone and feel entitled.

Rhys has done worse to Feyre than Tamlin, but it is ok because at the end of the day it was all justified. Him using her as a sex symbol was justified bc he did what he had to do. Him hiding her own high-risk pregnancy that would certainly kill her was justified bc he did what he had to. Him locking the IC inside Velaris at the risk it would be exposed if they left was fine bc it was justified. Him threatening to kill Nesta after she revealed to Feyre abt the pregnancy is ok, I guess bc he was angry.

Tamlin and Rhysand have almost done the same things. The difference is, Tamlin's actions weren't justified via a 6 page text block telling detail after detail how his life sucked ass.

#acotar #a court of thorns and roses #tamlin #a court of silver flames #pro tamlin #anti sjm #not really anti the characters bc i still hold them dear to my heart

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stargirlfeyre · 9 months

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I tried to like nestas character because at some point in her book she finally starts to take some credit for her actions on that like death hike Cassian took her on after Rhys threatened to kill her. But her stans push me away from her.

Her stans act they way they do because they don’t like to accept their own faults and like put the blame on others. Nesta still does that but she’s gotten better (maybe like 5% better lol).

For me to start to tolerate her character, I need her and elain to apologize, like truly apologize, and take blame for abuse and trauma they put on Feyre if that makes sense. And her stans to back the fuck off and not be overbearing.

I have interacted with nesta stans who are very chill that have realized all the things that she has done towards the IC and Feyre and haven’t like victimized nesta and are also IC stans. There are very few of stans like that. And they also accepted that Silver Flames could’ve been done a whole lot better for a healing arc for nesta.

SJM just got ahead of her self with all of the smut she wanted to write and forgot to actually write a healing arc plot that actually made sense. She did really well with Feyre’s healing arc in ACOMAF after under the mountain and becoming fae. I don’t know what was going on in her head while writing SF.

Still don’t like Nesta but there have been very few of her stans that I like basically. Like I said, the ones I have interacted with that I tolerate, have accepted the fact that people don’t like her character and have accepted the reasons on why she’s so disliked among the fandom.

Sorry for how long this has gotten lol

I went into acosf neutral about Nesta but as the book went on I started disliking her more and her fans just made my dislike for her worse.

I’m 99% convinced that the reason they hated acosf so much is because in the book Nesta actually took some accountability for her actions and she admitted that she was a bad person sometimes. Her fandom is full of people with victim complexes who never want to accept when they’re in the wrong so of course they have a problem with this. Here is the girl they connect to so much admitting that she’s done terrible shit. They hate acosf because it made them actually think about their own behavior.

I’ll never actually like Nesta or Elain until they fully apologize to Feyre AND explain their behavior. Neither of them can truly have “redemption arcs” until that is done because how are you redeemed if you never actually addressed the problem or apologized to the person you hurt?

I feel like most of her “sane” stans are mostly on twt. Like yeah there’s arguments here and there but for the most part her twt stans understand that she’s a character that’s just going to run people the wrong way. They don’t overly victimize her or try to blame other characters for her actions. At least that’s what I’ve seen.

It’s hard to imagine that the same person who wrote acomaf wrote acosf. Feyre’s healing journey was well done and Nesta’s healing journey was a huge disservice to her. I don’t even like Nesta and I can admit that. I think acosf would have been better if sjm didn’t lean into the “friends with benefits” situation so much. We should have seen Nesta and Cassian actually building a connection then getting together towards the middle/end but instead we just got sex, sex, and more sex. The love/healing story that was written for Nesta and Cassian doesn’t even fit their characters in prior books.

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nikethestatue · 2 months

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It does feel like shippers are the only ones left in the fandom who are actually looking forward to what SJM does next. The rest of the fandom behaves as if they are hate reading this series and at this point I think they very much are. The negativity isn't just around Elain, people seem to hate Feyre with a passion too now, which was genuinely shocking to me. I thought she was a fairly loved character so was Feysand as a ship but the loudest voices in the fandom seem to be of people that don't like them? Everyone is a hater of everyone now. I don't get it. I guess it's because the fandom discourse centered around nesta for so long and her fandom seems to be very hateful towards anyone who isn't her. Most of the elain hate I see comes from the pro-nesta side. She gets called a bitch, selfish, manipulative and an "ungrateful" sister by her stans which is crazyyy to me I'd thought feyre stans would hate her because of the time in cabin but... WHAT DID SHE DO TO NESTA???? WHAT? And where are the og feysand stans? I think they liked Elain or Elriel or at least weren't as hateful towards her. They seem to have dipped after acowar dropped which is valid lol they got everything why stay now? It is sad tho that SJM's og fans just left and now all she has is a fickle and unpredictable TikTok crowd and people who are just hate reading her books.

Yah...every character is hated now.

Back when I joined, no one would be hating on Cassian and Azriel, they were pretty much safe bets. Same with Feyre. Rhys was always too contentious to be loved by everyone, but now, every single person is hated. Poor Elain's been hated since the very beginning.

I think certain segments and certain ships take all this WAY too seriously. Like way way too seriously, taking it to places where these books aren't supposed to go. Stupid stuff like 'Rhys runs an apartheid state' using fancy words like 'intersectionality' and creating more drama between Rhys and Nesta than SJM ever did. Just because Nesta does not like Rhys, doesn't mean he is the devil, and vice versa, because he doesn't like her, doesn't mean she is plotting to murder him and take over.

I have issues with SJM's writing and her lack of consistency and plot holes, but I still love 99% of the characters. Even when they behave badly. It's okay, we should be able to handle imperfect characters who do imperfect things.

I've disliked the same 2 characters since the very beginning. Nothing's changed. And no one's been really added to the list, because i personally like the clashes, the personalities, the dramatics. That's why I read. Everyone acting properly and with dignified resolve is really not what I am super interested in.

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animezinglife · 6 months

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Sorry I'm not just reblogging you like a proper person but yeah I totally agree with you. Personally I did think Tamlin was a little nicer in book 1 - but he was also less traumatized then. He really craves normalcy in book 2, so he does high lord stuff like he knows it from other high lords.

In the end, they just are incompatible, yes. They both absolutely suck at communication. Tamlin always was awkward with social interactions but they both get worse after UTM. I also always felt like Tamlin got anxiety - or yes even paranoia, which makes sense, considering. And Feyre is all over the place lol. I generally feel the word 'abuse' is used extremely inflationary in online discussions, but I honestly don't think it super applies to Tamlin and Feyre. Like everyone calls him an abuser and even with the shit he did, I really don't quite see that. But I also kinda like him as a character so I'm biased. Considering how the narrative paints it, I totally get why people project their domestic violence trauma onto him. It is all kind of framed that way for sure.

You're fine! Any format of conversation that works well with you works for me, too. There's also nothing wrong with a bias towards a character. I don't have one towards him, but I do towards Rhys and Lucien. I'll inevitably have to face that at some point I'm sure.

I definitely lean a bit more towards your end on the "abuse" thing. I'd nearly put it in quotations in my post, but I do think it's more the manipulation and control--whether fully intentional or not--that made me feel comfortable using the word. It's an inflammatory word for sure and yeah, I definitely see a projection with the fanbase. That said, those behaviors genuinely can escalate and worsen in real life. I don't blame them for it--it's just a different take that I think leaves people with different expectations going in.

Maybe he was a bit nicer--truthfully, I just don't remember that much of him in the first book. It doesn't surprise me that his desire for normalcy goes a little overboard though to the point of over-exercising control in the places he shouldn't. I can't say I'm all that mad at the reason he locked Feyre in the house. I just don't agree with the locking her in the house part.

Feyre's a funny one. Right now, the way she's acting with Rhys almost gives me a little bit of an emotional affair vibe. Personally, I've liked him better than Tam from the get-go, but for someone she supposedly wants to think is her enemy and absolutely sees him as Tamlin's, she really has a habit of spilling her gut to him and finding a lot of comfort with him.

Which, don't get me wrong, is something that can absolutely happen on an unspoken, biological level in real life, but I did smirk a bit when they were having the little three truths conversation when he was taking her to the House of Wind and she just word-vomits everything she's been feeling about her relationship with Tamlin.

Like...girl, that's a lot to tell your not-enemy who at this point in time still technically is your current lover's enemy.

I hate to bring another series into it, but a lot of the reactions to things remind me A LOT of the Twilight era.

I have to be honest: my opinion of Tamlin has somehow not changed at all between the first book and this one. Or at least, it hasn't changed enough for me to even acknowledge. I didn't hate him and didn't love him in the first, and I'm still pretty much in the same spot now.

I'm also not at all new to the fantasy genre and not even new to the fae subgenre. Tamlin's honestly pretty mild in comparison to a lot of what you get in those (especially older books).

Again, a comparison doesn't right a wrong or lessen it, but he's definitely not the worst fictional guy out there, and definitely isn't the worst fae love interest.

#answered

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lidiacervos · 2 years

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The person who called Lucien a red flag listed all of his supposedly toxic traits 😭

1) He was an abuse enabler, even if he was a victim too. He didn’t do anything about Feyre’s abuse, he wanted to take her back to her abuser.

2) He took part in Elain’s and Nesta’s abduction and inwardly their traumas of being changed against their will.

3) He feels entitled towards Elain, making her uncomfortable 24/7 to the point of hurting her - tugging on her rib.

All of this seems like they're trying to find reasons to hate him, even if it doesn't make sense.

They are just trying to make an excuse to justify their hate for him. Which they don’t need, they can admit they hate him for being in their ship’s way instead of trying to paint him as a terrible person while ignoring other character’s behavior

If they want to disregard Lucien’s own abuse, that right there shows their bias. He tried to help Feyre the best way he could while being punished for it. He thought the Night Court was evil, something Rhys intentionally portrayed, and being with Tamlin was a safer option.

No one knew the sisters were going to be abducted, but once again that blame should be on Tamlin, the High Lord and Lucien’s superior. Lucien apologized once he realized the truth. He’s not running around acting like he did nothing wrong. He had his redemption in helping find Vassa and getting those fleets with Papa Archeron

LOL that last one. If Lucien acts entitled to Elain by respecting her boundaries and fighting his bond instincts, what does that mean for Azriel? Also Elain is not some helpless victim of Lucien, she has the most powerful high lord and lady behind her. If Lucien was harming her(everyone has witnessed these moments with them) he’d be banned from being anywhere near her. I’m not even going into the rib thing because, come on.

#idk who posted that but I have to wonder if they’ve actually read the books or are just repeating incorrect points from their pals #asks #Lucien vanserra

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bookofmirth · 3 years

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The english side of me REALLY jumped out with this one lol

Possessiveness, jealousy, and overprotectiveness are staples of the romance genre, especially when it comes to paranormal romances, so much so that it’s expected for people to overlook the problematic aspects of possessiveness, jealousy, and overprotectiveness because these concepts in the romance genre are meant to be viewed not only as hot and sexy, but indicators of love and showing that the person cares. Despite their tendency to fall in the yellow flag zone, these concepts are meant to further the romance itself. And when you begin to question these concepts as they appear in different romances, there’s almost always pushback with people saying the books are “just fiction”. But what happens when there’s evidence that shows why these three concepts aren’t always healthy or hot/sexy in a romantic pairing? What happens when the narrative is using these concepts to show how they can be detrimental to a character and those romantically associated with that character?

Possessiveness/Overprotectiveness

In romances, it’s always in the man’s nature to be possessive and overprotective. These two concepts are usually used to show that a character is protective of their partner and we see that happen with almost all of SJM’s endgame ships, but they’re almost always portrayed as good/healthy because of the equal partnership that is present in those relationships. Thinking about acotar, a relationship where possessiveness and overprotectiveness were depicted in a negative light was between Feyre and Tamlin. Their relationship was imbalance and Tamlin’s possessiveness/overprotectiveness of Feyre stood out in the barriers he placed on Feyre when they were together: not letting her leave the house/keeping her in the house; saying everything is for her “protection”; only letting her talk to Alis and Lucien/limiting her interactions with others; telling Lucien to back off from Feyre because Tamlin saw him as a threat and that she could fall for him instead; having Feyre be dependent on him by not teaching her how to fight/learn how to use her powers; controlling every aspect of Feyre’s life at the beginning of acomaf; among other things.

Males in acotar feel an intrinsic sense of entitlement to their mate and are described as being protective and possessive over their mates. When people say that A is exhibiting “mate behavior” towards E, obviously there is a positive connotation associated with that phrase because of how the males act around their mate. But the thing is A isn’t E’s mate. A’s possessiveness of E is treading on the waters of Tamlin-ville because: A speaks for E, which is oddly similar to what some of E’s stans do in fandom discussions (as if E herself reached out of the book to personally tell them things that no one else knows); he makes it known that E shouldn’t help with the Dread Trove, which is an example of A attempting to limit what E does; and he subtly expresses a sense of entitlement over E in the bonus chapter during his conversation with Rhys when he questions if the Cauldron was wrong in pairing E with Lucien. A’s “mate behavior” is completely different from Rhys and Cassian because Rhys and Cassian are canonically mated to Feyre and Nesta, which plays a role in how they act towards them. Also, neither of them attempt to limit what Feyre and Nesta do even if they worry about their safety. To say that A is exhibiting “mate behavior” towards E would have the same effect as saying Tamlin was exhibiting “mate behavior” towards Feyre. I think that the reason A’s actions towards E are described as mate-like is because thinking otherwise calls his actions into question. I assume some people aren’t ready for that conversation because he’s been portrayed as the sad bat boy in the fandom for so long that it’s probably hard for people to come to terms with this not being the case.

When people say A being overprotective of E is similar to Rhys and Cassian being overprotective of Feyre and Nesta, the comparison becomes incomparable because A is overprotective of E to the point where he goes against what E wants to do (E stating she wanted to help find the dread trove, a scene in which A was present and later A said E shouldn’t be exposed to its innate darkness), while Rhys and Cassian know Feyre and Nesta are capable of fending for themselves in dangerous situations. It’s just ironic that A’s overprotectiveness in this moment contradicts E’s “choice” of wanting to help, yet I don’t see that being mentioned in those “choice” arguments.

Jealousy

Jealousy in the romance genre is always meant to further the romance between the love interests and we see that happen with rowaelin and chaorene (and probably other SJM ships too). But when the jealousy and the romance are disconnected from each other, that’s meant to show something about the character who is jealous and what they’re jealous of. On the second page of the bonus chapter, it’s established that A is envious of Cassian and Rhys and that the reason he remained downstairs by the fire was so that he didn’t get swallowed up by his jealousy in his room. Then on the third page, it’s revealed that the reason he stayed by the door at Solstice was because “he couldn’t stand the sight of it, the scent of their mating bond, and needed to have the option of leaving if it became too much”. There is a blatant reimagining happening with A’s bonus chapter to make it seem as though his jealousy is romantically coded when the jealousy has nothing to do with his relationship with E and more to do with him. This reimagining has to be a case of people seeing what they want to see because I highly doubt people are out here failing literature class.

The Romance Genre & SJM

A and E’s interaction in the bonus chapter is frequently compared to Wings and Embers. The only similarity between these two chapters is the sexual undertones, which is part of the reason why I think people compare them in the first place because everything else (the structure of the chapters, their contents, and the amount of characters involved in them) is different. I think people are hiding behind the sexual undertones of the bonus chapter in hopes that it somehow overshadows not only the oddness of A’s interaction with E, but the ending of the bonus chapter as well. And even more than that, A giving away the necklace is compared to Cassian tossing Nesta’s present in the Sidra. Since A is able to give the necklace away that should tell you about the significance of the necklace’s connection to E herself (if A can easily give it away to the next person on the street) whereas Cassian regifting Nesta’s present would probably be meaningless to someone else because it was Nesta specific.

We know that acotar is more romance heavy compared to tog and cc so I can see why people lean more on the conventions of the romance genre as a basis for their arguments. And this is fueled by SJM saying this new trilogy will have one couple per book. However, the downfall of these arguments is that oftentimes the plot, narrative structure of this new trilogy in particular, and individual character progressions are secondary or afterthoughts to the romance they support. These arguments lack any real substance because acotar has proved time and time again that both the romance AND the plot work in tandem, going against the broad strokes of the romance genre formula where the romance is primarily in the spotlight.

Basically, why do you think A’s possessiveness, jealousy, and overprotectiveness of E is romanticized? Why do you think A and E’s dynamic is constantly compared to feysand and nessian? And why do you think people take issue with A being compared to Tamlin?

I think that the reason A’s actions towards E are described as mate-like is because thinking otherwise calls his actions into question.

THIS

I hate the whole discussion of "mate behavior" because the series doesn't even explain that very well. Rhys can't explain why people are mated, if it's for reproduction or being "equals" (in what sense, who knows), the courts all handle acceptance/rejection differently, the consequences of rejection are unclear and make it seem like the woman is beholden to accept on pain of... causing someone else pain.

I agree 100% that people (maybe unconsciously) try to ascribe "mate behavior" to Azriel in order to excuse what would ordinarily be inexcusable. He doesn't have some magical thing making him act this way. Neither did Tamlin, and we know how people view his behavior. And that's another thing with "mate behavior" and the bond. Why would Tamlin and Feyre not be mates, if all it took were these extreme possessive and protective behaviors? Why aren't Az and Mor mates?

And it's not even about Elain! Az acts like this with Mor, and we know there isn't a mating bond there. Azriel has zero reason to behave the way that he does, not in the same way that the mating bond gives Rhys and Cassian an "excuse", flimsy as it is, for the way that they act around Nesta and Feyre. Even that excuse is crap, because we have Rhys out here leaving Feyre's abusive ex alone, and then we have Lucien doing the same with Graysen. The definition of "mate behavior" that some of the fandom is working with... is sus.

The fact is that no matter how "overprotective" and possessive Rhys and Cassian were, they never prevented Nesta or Feyre from doing what they wanted. They might have gotten their hackles up, but then they backed off. Rhys sent Feyre into the Weaver's cottage. Nesta went to war. There is a balance between caring deeply and passionately for these women, and recognizing them as individuals whose autonomy should be respected.

The jealousy is 100% not about Elain. It's not about Elain being with Lucien. It's not about Mor, because we know that it's not really about Mor sleeping with Helion. Azriel has 99 problems, and 98.5 of them are about his childhood and his loneliness. The other 0.5 problem comes in the shape of a snowball.

The only similarity between these two chapters is the sexual undertones

You know I haven't done a full blown comparison between these chapters, but I'd agree. The entire Wings and Embers short was about Nesta and Cassian. There were no other characters and they learned a great deal about one another. What did Elain and Az learn about one another as people in the first third of his POV? Nothing. There was no tension between them other than sexual. Cassian thought Nesta's name over and over, thought about her as a person and her personality and how she made him feel. Azriel literally only thinks about fucking Elain. There is nothing wrong with fucking, obviously, but that's not love. (Maybe I should fully compare them idk.)

It's when we look at everything he doesn't say in conjunction with how he treats Elain and Mor in other scenarios... that's troubling. People can misread our 😬 at his behavior all they want, but the fact is that Az didn't have a single kind, original thought about who Elain is. His POV gave us zero extra insight into who Elain is as a person, which is... startling, if we are supposed to think that they know one another so incredibly well and have such intense feelings for each other. Why would we not get additional insight into her character? We get a lot of insight into Az's character for sure. But following his POV, if he loves and knows this woman so well, we should feel that. We should know why he loves her, what he knows about her, we should... just get some more damn insight into her character, if we are in the POV of someone who supposedly knows her so well!!!!

You know it's funny though, because the Az and Elain interaction in his POV mirrors when Nesta imagined a threesome with Az and Cassian. Close, and potentially pretty hot, but it never really happened because then it would mess up sjm's plans for the future.

Okay now to your ACTUAL questions haha and not just my reactions to what you said.

I agree that romanticizing Azriel's behaviors is the better option for people who ship it because otherwise the alternative is to accept them for what they are, which is not about Elain at all. Az has an even longer history of being all "mate behavior" on Mor, but no one thinks that's odd? I think that some people pick and choose their evidence, which is a big reason why I keep shoving Mor into these conversations. If the "mate behavior" argument was genuine and had a solid foundation, then the people making these claims would still ship moriel.

The whole thing with Az and Tamlin comparisons.... oh boy. I think there is a lot there.

I think that people don't want to see Az as anything less than perfect sad boi that Elain can fix with her love.

I think that people have a difficult time seeing emotional abuse IRL, to the point where even people who experience it directly struggle to come to terms with it, so why would we willingly embrace its presence in fiction? It also flirts with a lot of the ideas you mentioned being present in a lot of romance, though I'd argue a lot of those elements are becoming passé.

I think that Tamlin is Fandom Enemy Number One while Azriel is Self-insert Book Boyfriend Number One, and maybe people don't know how to reconcile those things. (This is quite literally true, I checked AO3 for reader fanfics and compared numbers between the bat boys, Az/reader fics win by a landslide.)

There also seems to be a refusal to see or accept nuance. I'm not even talking about moral complexity because I don't think that either Tamlin or Az intend to behave the way they do. They aren't villains. It just reminds me of people who somehow don't think Nesta was absolutely horrible through much of the series, even though a huge focus of her arc in acosf was coming to terms with how she had treated people. Anyway...

People see "gwynriel shipper" or "elucien 💕" in a bio and just dismiss arguments before trying to understand them

People try to justify their actions of their faves, which I understand!

People don't understand how subtle emotional abuse can be, and how there doesn't have to be clear intention.

I still plan on pulling out evidence from the book about times when their behaviors mirror one another. But it's like I've said for months - Tamlin is a cautionary tale. I don't think Azriel will go that far, but the foundation is there. The fact that acotar/acomaf was so, so explicit about how Tamlin's behavior was not okay, and yet people can see that same behavior in another character one book later and want to try to excuse it... sigh. Way to miss the point, fandom.

#the brielle tag #ask #not even gonna tag these characters #my stalkers will love this post though #💋#antielriel

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vidalinav · 3 years

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I hate that Nesta’s protectiveness, the one quality in the narrative that even Feyre saw as Nesta showing her love for Elain, and the part of her that was again shown when she chose to die with Cassian, that was honored as she stood at Enalius’s passing, because she wholeheartedly wanted her friends to live, which can even be passed to the act of her wanting to tell her story and help the fae, because she wanted to protect the humans—to give them a chance, that part of her that started scrying because she wanted Nyx to be born in a better world, that sacrificed her powers for her sister and her nephew, because she wholeheartedly did not care about herself, she cared about other people’s well-being, that quality I never found bad or awful towards Nesta, that one quality I actually thought highlighted how good Nesta was, and how caring, is used by Elain as Nesta’s character flaw even though Nesta is only protective of Elain during three instances: one when they were human, which Nesta conceded on letting Feyre and the IC use the house after Elain says they should, one when Elain was lifeless for a bit and deeply traumatized, and once in ACOSF about scrying when the last time she scryed Elain was taken by the cauldron and Hybern.

This is why I can’t sympathize with Elain as a victim to Nesta’s ways as it’s portrayed in three instances: when she cries in the library knowing full well the current state of affairs, when she accuses Nesta of only thinking of how her trauma affects her and saying that she remembers Feyre rescuing her, and when she talks of the duke situation and says that she hopes Nesta channels all of “that” into something more productive. And then when Feyre agrees that they ALL coddle her, when Amren says that they shouldn’t underestimate her, and when Rhys again says that perhaps they haven’t seen what Elain is made of, and when Azriel is like we shouldn’t subject her to that darkness. Some of this I would understand Elain getting mad, but not for Nesta coddling, because Nesta at this point hasn’t even seen Elain for a WHILE, which makes all the difference, because how can she coddle someone she has pushed away? I can see her being angry for what Nesta says, the dog comment (actually that was never said out loud) or the father comment or what the IC do because they don’t give her tasks and kind of just let her be, but the context of the situation DOES matter, because these situations in which Nesta is saying something mean is a situation where Elain is really oblivious and not reading the context of the situation, and it comes at the end of the scene when it’s already been taken too far. She’s not mean for sport lol. I would even understand the anger based on feeling left out, but that’s not what she gets angry about. It’s directly and only at Nesta and for that one quality, and it has made this notion both in the book and the fandom that Elain is “coddled” specifically by Nesta as opposed to giving Nesta the validation that she is deeply afraid and her MO entirely is that she protects the people she loves. She has not told Elain she has no free will, she has not taken it away. That has NEVER happened. Elain consistently thrived for almost all of the book series, until she turned fae. There was no forever under Nesta’s thumb.

It reminds me a little of when Elain says that her father could never say no to Nesta as if this grown ass man had no control and all of the control/responsibility was on this 14 year old girl. What? It’s also why I think Elain has much of the same skewed, problematic perspective as Nesta had in the beginning of ACOSF where she thought people sided with Feyre. I have such a problem that people in this fandom use that dialogue as a way that Elain is the rational one, or the one whose finally and rightfully sticking up for herself, or who is a victim of other people. Like no I’m sorry. I do agree that she is neglected in some sense, but there is more evidence that that is her choice than it is because of other people. She literally says that Nesta can’t hate her choice to live a simple life but also hate her getting involved. She locks herself away when Nesta is there. She pretends to garden for other people or whatever as Cassian notes it might have been a lie. She avoids Lucien. She is the one who though Feyre thinks she’s pleasant, they’re not extremely close, and that happened without Nesta involved at all.

The mere act of saying it’s because of other people makes her a victim which is her whole character arc from the beginning, of her not helping even when she could just as much as Nesta. Nesta is both held accountable for her healing as in everyone pretty much pushes her to do it faster, and then also for that situation. Elain isn’t held accountable for either. Neither her own healing, Bc they didn’t push her at all even now. And also for that hunting situation.

We’ve seen literal evidence of Elain in ACOMAF where Elain is like softly being like Nesta we need to help and Nesta concedes. We’ve seen Elain stab the King of Hybern. We’ve seen her be pretty mean too in ACOSF, or at least biting back. She can help if she wants. That is not Nesta’s fault so I really really hope that that is her skewed narrative and it becomes an objective of character development as Feyre was to Nesta and it’s not used as another way that Nesta is criticized for something in the book as well as the fandom that is far more complex than “oh Nesta is mean. She hurts everyone. She’s an awful character. Blah blah blah.” But ultimately, I hope it’s used for Elain taking accountability of her own life. That it is not other people’s fault, she’s not happy or doing something or close with many people. Her narrative right now, even with the mate bond situation, is that she lacks control of her own life, but... uhh hate to break it to you.

The evidence is there guys. Elain is having problems. Nesta is not THE problem, which for gods knows why I’ve seen on so many posts when they want to defend Elain. Defend Elain, she’s not a bad character. But not for this lol. This is one of her character flaws.

#nesta archeron #anti elain #anti SJM #anti acosf #that's all for my Monday rant

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lovinpages · 3 years

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So I just have to write about some thoughts because I just finished ACOMAF. I feel like I could write an entire book about how the ACOTAR series make me feel, but okay no one would read that, so I’ll just dump it here. Congrats to everyone who reads this till the end. It’s a lot 😂

I love how Rhys and Feyre can speak to each other without anyone else who can hear. Even when they’re not using words. Not even using their special bond. Like when Feyre asked the king of Hybern to break their bond and Rhys played along with her all the time. She made it look like she wanted to leave with Tamlin for everyone else there, except for Rhys. He knew what was happening and did everything he could to help her even though it destroyed him inside. As he did so many more times. He just made her High Lady of the Night court and had to see her go with her ex-fiancé who locked her up and acts like he possesses her. His mate. He had to let her go and he did. I mean like, how much trust can you have in a person?! How strong is your relationship when you can survive something like that together!

I just love their entire relationship. From the very beginning. And the way SJMaas let’s you love that even more with every page you read about them. How Rhys knew that Feyre was his mate and still let her leave with Tamlin when Amarantha was dead. How he had to see her die, and then take off with another man. And he already knew what kind of a person Tamlin is, but he still let her go becuase he knew it was best for her at that moment. He was absolutely broken when he got home and when he came to pick her up at her wedding, he still acted like nothing happened. As if he was okay and strong. Even though he died inside.

Then, when her week was over, he had to let her go, again. And he did, without showing anything of what that did to him. Because of her. All he did was for her. I can’t even imagine how he must have felt when Feyre decided to stay with him instead of going back to the Spring Court. How angry he must have been at Tamlin but still show nothing because that was best for her. The moment they finally get together as Feyre found out they are mates… how he told her everything and cried, showed all of him. How she kisses his tears away as he had done for her before. They are so incredibly perfect together I can’t even handle. They understand each other and will always be there for each other, no matter what time it is, no matter if it takes everything in their power. For example to wake him up and see him so very broken, naked, and still be there for him in the best way there possibly is. Or Rhys being there for her when she threw up, he didn’t leave, he stayed with her and held her hair back, brought her to the bed when she fell asleep.

These books are so amazing. I mean, the talent SJM has to let us read a story and get to know the personalities so good that we can feel everything they feel. We can fall in love with them (I mean come on, Rhys, Cassian and Azriel are too perfect) and I can impossibly say goodbye to them. They live in my head rent free 😂 thanks to SJM. What a talent. Every detail in these books are just perfect. Her books are a gift to us and the characters will live forever in our heads (at least they will in mine lol)! Not even talking about the rest of the plot and how it is so brilliant. I will write about that later because I will need to get that out in words too, just to even try to move on with my life 😂

#sarahjmaas #acomaf #acotar #feyre x rhysand #rhysand #feyre #sjmaas #sjm

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unhealthyfanobsession · 3 years

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How would you compare the ACOTAR ships to TVD ships? Some people say Feysand is like Delena.

This is SUCH A FUN ASK!! Don’t mind if I do! I’m going to compare the general dynamic of the characters as well as archetype/ story parallels.

This is a crossover post so SPOILERS FOR BOTH ACOTAR AND TVD BELOW.

Stefan-Elena-Damon = Tamlin-Feyre-Rhysand

I don’t mean to do Stefan dirty like this, but the parallels are really undeniable. Stefan and Tamlin both were the kind, caring, magical first introduction to this whole new world for Feyre/Elena. They fell in love with them easily and it was a pure, beautiful love but while they were in it there were darker (Damon and Rhys) forces pulling them in another direction. Both women loved these men SO fiercely and sacrificed for that love. Feyre fought the 3 trials with Amarantha where she ended up being helped by Rhys. Elena went looking for Stefan in his ripper days even though Klaus would kill her if he found her and she was helped by Damon. Both of them fought for this love but then once they had it back... either they or the man or both had changed too much from the trauma and their relationship simply couldn’t work anymore.

I totally agree with the Feysand= Delena point because I think they are both relationships that are very “this person over everyone else no matter what” and that is romantic, but at we see, can also be overbearing/toxic at times. They both do awful things that the heroine has to later learn their motives for and forgive them for. Damon “kills” Jeremy and tries to compel Elena to kiss him early on. He feeds Elena his blood against her will when Klaus might kill her but then he ultimately makes it right through self sacrificing hero acts. Rhys does... everything he did under the mountain and he doesn’t tell Feyre she’s his mate, but then he helps her heal after Tamlin and ultimately saves Prythian. Both characters are also haunted by an abusive relationship- Rhysand a sexually abusive relationship with Amarantha that he endured for 49 years and Damon and emotionally abusive/manipulative relationship with Katherine that defined his life for 150 years.

Damon has a quote in season 4 that I think really describes both couples. He says: “if you’re going to be bad, be bad with a purpose. Otherwise you just aren’t worth forgiving.”

Klaroline = Nessian

This one is more based on character interactions and a bit of my own bias. I struggled to find a TRUE nessian parallel couple but I think Klaroline is the closest for a number of reasons. Largely because Caroline and Nesta are very similar characters. Both start off as shallow, superficial mean girls who we get an early glimpse of their heart (Caroline crying and her I’m never the one monologue and Nesta being on Feyre’s side when she returns in ACOTAR) who then get changed into something they never wanted to be and it helps them grow and OWN THEIR P O W E R. Even Caroline’s stint as emotionless mess after her mom’s death parallels Nesta’s destructive actions after losing her father.

Cassian and Klaus both have the whole “I’m a worthless bastard that no one wants and I killed my father but I am STRONGER THAN EVERYONE so you can’t hurt me even though I’m really just a soft boi who needs love” vibe going on.

And the CHASE. That’s the biggest parallel here. These are both couples where this powerful man walked in and said “that one” re the beautiful woman who hated them and then did not give up. But with both of them it’s a gentle chase. Klaus knows that Caroline is constantly trying to trick him but he doesn’t care because he just wants to spend time with her and whenever she is in danger he is there on the DOUBLE and does things he doesn’t want to do for her (ex- graduation, hiding/ protecting Stefan in season 6). Cassian knows that Nesta is going through a hard time after ACOMAF and he flies up to the House of Wind every damn day to see her even when she pushes him away and he instantly goes into fierce general I will kill mode if anyone threatens Nesta. Also both couples are prone to lashing out at each other (Caroline “terrible people” line; Klaus with his biting. Cassian “everyone hates you”; Nesta with her well... being Nesta LOL)

Bonus points for pet names and relentless teasing when they aren’t trying to kill each other.

Quote for them is when Caroline tells Klaus “anyone capable of love, is capable of being saved” I think that also has big Cassian @ Nesta in ACOSF energy.

(PS I did consider Nessian being Steroline but 1. I fucking hate that ship and 2. Stefan was never there for Caroline during the hard times which is the anti Cassian AND I think the for me it’s always you vibe just fits the intensity of Nessian better)

Kennett = Elriel

I’m not tagging this Elriel so don’t COME FOR ME. In my opinion, these are both ships that had some fun ~tension~ and are kinda sexy/enticing. Kol with his love of witches and their little graduation ghost adventure and Azriel with his attraction to Elain and saving her from Hybern. BUT ultimately I think the most interesting thing about these ships was their convenience. I think fans liked to put Bonnie with Kol in fanfics because it was an easy way to make Bonnie understand Elena and Caroline’s choice for a dark boi and it was just convenient. Likewise I think that Elriel is convenient in writing to simply throw Elain with the other bat brother and tie everything up in a neat little ribbon.

Mabekah= Elucien

In this comparison Rebekah is Lucien and Matt is Elain. This was a couple where one person started off with bad motives (Rebekah wanting to kill Matt at the ball; Lucien plotting with Hybern) but they have genuine feelings for the person once they get to know/are mated to them and you see that person is a much more complicated character than we previously saw. Rebekah and Lucien are both lost, lonely, and struggling to find where they fit in while Matt and Elain are both struggling but ultimately the much beloved “sweet” character who everyone is willing to die to protect. At first the sweet character avoids the villain character like the plague, but eventually things turn around and they see past their previous bad actions.

BonEnzo= Gwynriel

Talk about characters who have some trauma to heal together. Enzo was literally kept in a cage by the Whitmore’s for 50 years and abused much like Azriel in his dungeon. Gwyn has had to make unspeakable decisions in order to protect the greater good and suffer the horrible consequences for it- losing her twin to protect those children much like how Bonnie lost her grams to protect Stefan and Elena. Enzo started off interested in Caroline (like Azriel and Elain) and getting over an obsession with Lilly (Azriel and Mor) but was ultimately drawn to Bonnie for her strength, determination, and good heart despite everything she had been through. These are really all just characters that have been through the RINGER and need to find healing in each other’s arms but would never admit that’s what they are doing so it just happens slowly and one day they realize things don’t hurt as much anymore.

AND FINALLY:

Damon and Caroline= Nesta and Tomas

You know why. Damon doesn’t get off that easy just because he “changed”. He abused Caroline and I won’t be pretending in 2021 that he didn’t.

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talkfantasytome · 3 years

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This got a little long, forgive me if this is tormenting you, but I really love to talk about this and I also loved your answers and would love to know your point of view on other parts of the story.

So, here I will show you my thoughts about what might happen in the next book with Azriel and also how I believe more people will know about Lucien and Helion in the next book. Let's go.

This is a thought of mine, but I think that probably in the next book more characters will learn that Lucien is Helion's son. I remember that either Rhys or Feyre said that they hadn't told anyone yet because it wasn't the time. I think that maybe something happens and in one of the meetings they have, in the search to find a solution to something Feysand can tell the IC, or something happens and Lucien unintentionally releases some power that makes other people suspicious. I think SJM is taking too long with this issue and it will get too rushed if she adds this only in the last book. Making a small comparison with TOG we saw as the books went by more and more characters knowing until they had the reunion between father and son.

I just don't know how this will be added in the story, because I believe the next book (using logic and the end of the book), will be about the Ilyrians vs Valkyries conflict, Ilyrians vs NC and the autumn court conflicts. Maybe Eris will use this to make Helion want to kill his father, we know he is looking for someone to kill him. As we know that Cassian and Rhys deal with Eris, I believe we will see less of him in this book as we saw in ACOSF but he will still appear in the Nightmare Court, on another hand, who gives information to Azriel is Lucien, so I believe we will see some conversation between the two.

I believe that the Ilyrians will plan something to hit the girls for getting out of the bloond rite alive, I believe that some Ilyrians will be inspired by them, probably Emerie will suffer something since besides being Ilyrian, she had her wings cut off and works and lives there, I am not sure but I think they will want them to stay training in the Ilyrian training camp. As Rhys and Cassian said it will be hard to make Azriel want to defend the Ilyrians because to him they could all die, I believe that will be one of the points to work on, maybe working with the Ilyrians he will feel the need to protect them and the fact that the Valkyries are connected to that makes me 50% sure that will be one of the triggers for him to defend them. (Just like Nesta who wanted the women to train to defend themselves and why it helped her with her trauma, I think this Ilyrianas training will mess with her feelings for being connected to her mother and the way she was treated). I also believe that the Ilyrian who did not kill the girls in the blood rite will reappear, probably mediating the problem between the Valkyries and the Ilyrians, to show Azriel that not all Ilyrians are bad and so on.

(I think this will be the first plot of the book, as it was in ACOSF, making this one want to go train, then her liking to train and wanting the other women to train as well. I think something like that will happen at the beginning of the book with Azriel).

The other plot I am not sure but I think it will involve AC again and Gwyn. I don't know how it will happen but I am really excited to read the next book.

Do you agree with this thought?

Hi Nonnie! No, definitely not tormenting me. <3

So, first, I just want to say this seems totally possible! Admittedly, that's not saying much, as I'm very open-minded to the possibilities of the next books and, also, considering what "possible" means, you really can't say something isn't possible. So, you won't find me saying something isn't possible unless it's like "I think Nesta and Rhys are going to go on a Bryaxis hunt, and they're going to fall in love and end up cheating on their mates with each other while Cassian goes off to Autumn to f*ck Eris and Feyre decides to explore her sexuality with Emerie." Like, okay, no, that's not gonna happen. 😂

But, with anything that really does seem to be thought of based on what's happened in the books and being foreshadowed - totally possible!

As for me, personally - I agree with a good chunk of this, but not sure on all of it, so I'm going to dive in to help explain better.

Lucien & Helion: Honestly, yes. I do agree more people will find out in the next book. I do hope it's saved mostly for the full novels over the novellas, as it's such a big plot point, so I really don't want anyone finding out in a novella, except maybe characters that would be completely unaffected by this. Like, for example, say people find out in book 5, then the Emorie novella comes out (that's my hope), and Mor reveals to Emerie about Lucien...unless Emerie and Lucien become besties in book 5, it really has very little effect on her life, so that's okay. But other IC members, for example - it needs to come out in a full novel.

That is, unless, it becomes the main plot point of a novella. But, since we know Lucien's story is likely to be in a novel, I find that unlikely.

So I do believe we'll start to see more. I think Cassian starting to see something in Lucien was a bit of foreshadowing, and my guess is that for the next book we'll see more of Lucien and E\ain, just like we saw more of Az in ACOSF - as the way to build up their book.

In terms of how it'll be added, I've added thoughts on that in the next section.

As for Eris & Helion, I honestly don't think we'll see Eris "getting" Helion to kill his father. Whether or not something happens between Helion and Beron, who can say? It's possible. But I don't see Eris playing much of a role in that, just potentially benefiting from it. XD

Illyrians & Valkyries: I also agree the next book will have more focus on this. ACOSF was about the creation/establishment of the Valkyries, and I think book 5 will have a focus - though maybe smaller - on the building up of the Valkyries more. I also agree, believing that makes it harder to understand how Lucien's story will come into play.

BUT. With the knowledge that Gwyn's grandfather was an Autumn Court High Fae, and since we do believe there's likely to be a focus on the Valkyries, that's possibly where it could come in. If the book really is Az-Gwyn, we will see more of Gwyn's story and development, and if there is any relation to Lucien, then I think we'll get to see their relationship grow and develop. And that would be a prime spot to bring in the other aspect of the story and reveal it a bit more. Similarly, if it's more Eris and Gwyn getting to know each other, that could still be an opening for this plot point.

As for the Illyrians planning something to hit the Valkyries - I'm, honestly, not convinced. They already did that in bringing them into the Blood Rite, so it would be a rather similar plot point to once again have the Illyrians secretly plan to hurt the Valkyries.

I DO agree there will be conflict there, for sure. I think there's already growing conflict in Illyria, so that's where the main focus will be - the Illyrians are discontent, I think there was growing belief of a possible rebellion or something? So I think that's likely what will have a focus, and the Valkyries will come into play in a way that, I think, will act as a catalyst.

I could see the issue being that the Valkyries come round, proving how females can be trained, now with two Carynthians and an Oristian (sp? 👀), and they could become a beacon for Illyrian females. Especially with Emerie, proving what you can do even with clipped wings (what a badass). And maybe they start to get the females training more. They'll still have their training at the House, considering the priestesses, but Nesta, Emerie, and Gwyn (hopefully), I'm guessing, will do stuff in Illyria with Cassian and Az.

Az & Illyrians: I definitely agree. One of the biggest aspects of most characters' emotional arcs is accepting themselves, who they are, who they were born to be. And that's going to be a HUGE part of Az's emotional journey, because we know he doesn't accept himself. Just as I believe E\ain's will be revolving around accepting herself as being High Fae, Az's will likely revolve around accepting his heritage. He tries to pretend on so many levels that he's not an Illyrian, but he is. He can't hide it. That's part of who he is.

And I get it. The Illyrians can kinda suck. Az and Cassian are two opposite sides of the spectrum of having a hard time with their heritage. Cassian hates the way they are, and wants to change it, but also desperately wants their approval (bby boi <3). Az, on the other hand, literally wants to never deal with them and act as if he's not one of them.

So I agree about that part of Az's emotional journey. I think it'll involve more, with him finally understanding he is worthy of love and accepting every part of himself, but the Illyrian side is a big piece.

Overall, I'd say I agree with a lot of what you've said. I typically don't think too much about possible future plot points the way I do relationships and other things, mostly because I generally plan to be surprised. LOL But, in thinking about it, that's sort of where I end up on possibilities, especially when thinking about ways in which we might see certain things play out. I definitely have no idea what the big climax will be, nor am I sure how it'll tie to the overarching plot. Plot is, admittedly, one of my weaker links - I'm not good at big climaxes...👀 So no way can I guess what another author would do. But in terms of build up to major plot points, those are my thoughts.

Thanks for the question! :)

#ask box #acotar #acotar theory #acotar thoughts #Azriel #gwynriel #valkyries #illyrians #Helion #lucien vanserra #gwyn #gwyneth berdara

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nessiancalore · 3 years

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Hello my children

I just finished the book and I want to talk about it, so -- obviously -- spoilers ahead.

First I want to talk about the fact that this writing was AMAZING for me.

I used to get the feeling that sjm had one type of writing with tog and another with acotar (tog being my fav and ccity I have to reread to get into a bigger understand) but this book OMG.

I'm not talking exactly about the way she did it (though I loved the small chapters) but the things she decided that were important.... We got so many good stories about the courts, history, THE ILLYANS history, that was fucking amazing.

The second thing: how she handled the girls. They found each other,they loved each other even not knowing what """" they've done"""", Gwyn, Emerie and Nes are EVERYTHING and YES their stories ARE worth telling.... Sarah made their growing really good, made them take their time and that last scene when they tell each other everything, I cried SO MUCH, it was really well done for me.

I'm gonna talk about nessian first, then Nesta.

Nessian... Their development, the fact that Sarah made them already know about the bond (BITCHES WE WERE RIGHT) but " not act upon it" and Cassian making mistakes (because that's how it works) and Nesta even when he did kinda "understanding" and the scene when she tells him everything they indeed found healing in each others arms.

And the sex... Guys..... THE FUCKING SEX... I knew it would be 😳😳, but I was NOT expecting both of them enjoying a little pain, saying stuff like " think of you. Of your cock." or “I love being so covered in your seed that it leaks out of me for ages afterward. I love feeling it slide down my thighs and knowing you left your mark in me.” THAT WAS BRUTAL.

Anyway... Nesta Archeon.

There were a lot of quotes and things that Nesta has said that made my heart cry, the thing about selling herself for food, the way Nesta said she hated herself and the thing with Thomas and her mother omg, Nesta deserves love.

She is definitely one of the best characters I've ever read. Her journey.... We've learned A LOT from her past (stuff that we've missed it because it has been Feyre's pov and feyre herself never knew), we have her dacing, her love for music (that music box, I cried), we have her confessing many times that -unfortunately- she pushed away "bc didn't want to hurt anyone "and then saying to herself stuff like "she would do it again" about Cassian... AND THE STEPS.

the fucking steps.

That was AMAZING to read. The ideal behind it...Nesta going and going and everything something went wrong she went again and through the book you can see the change of "I'm doing to get down there and drink " to "I'm doing to put myself together"... Personally it was an amazing way of showing that even though, idk, she fucked cassian, the fact that any priest had signed to train with her still bothered her and brought everything back, because that's how life works triggers and stuff.... And then Amren doesn't believe in her and she finally gets down, I honestly thought that she was going to the first tavern she would find but NO she goes to Amren and Feyre is there and Nesta does something that crushes her spirit.. And the "trip"... Him giving her the space until she finally says everything -- she feels totally comfortable around him to say it.. That scene made my heart so sad and worm omg.

The Valkyrie thing... Nesta is going to LEAD...SHE BASICALLY WON THAT FUCKING THING, SHE IS A POWERFUL AND BRAVE WARRIOR AND I'M SO HAPPY FOR HER THAT OMG... I loved it.. She found a purpose and when she talks about leading the priests and cassian is on board omg, she is a fucking general and well, in the next war they will be leading armies together...

Az and Nesta... I saw it coming, they are PERFECT...When she hugged him I felt hugged as well.

RHYSAND AND NESTA "HER BROTHER" that's all I'm going to say.

Feyre and Nesta.... nes's first I love you was towards her sister, she gave her power away for her sister, she loved feyre very much, that's it.

A little bit more of nessian now (lol)... The fact that in the entire book we have so many beautiful things being "thought" from both, and then she just says everything...That he is good and brave and she thinks she doesn't deserve him but we know that he was the one who thought that and the EVER OMG THE E V E R . (HE CRIED, I TOLD YOU GUYS HE WOULD).

And then... the talk about them being mates.

They both knew it, they both felted but she was afraid and he didn't wanted to pushed into her so he left and omg the struggle and then “Because my mate taught me well.” I SCREAMED... Nesta saying many times that from the moment they've met she couldn't stop thinking about him and it drove her insane and scared but we know it was kinda a of a "good scared" and if you think about it and look back, when feyre asked cassian "why do you bother" HE KNEW ALREADY and in the beginning of the book Nesta asks him the same thing and he just “Why did you stay at my side when we went up against the King of Hybern during that last battle?” DUDE THEY KNEW!!!!

And a cute fact that I cannot left unsaid: she also named his poses/faces :")

EMERIE AND MORRIGAN, I WANT IT, I NEED IT, WHERE, WHEN, PLEASE GIVE TO ME.

Eris... I hate him, he wanted to BUY Nesta and said those bullshits to Cass...But I pity him.

About Az pov I'm only going to say one thing: Elain does not love Lucien, she can barely stand him... I think Az may be in a bad place rn so that whole "the cauldron may have made a mistake" was really "Hey ho, hold up" (I'm nut exactly okay with how rhys handle it... He wasn't wrong I guess but idk, the scene felt weird)..

I haven't read the feysand scene :(

To summon: I loved the book, a lot of amazing things to say... I can say that the similarly with feysand in a particular scene made me go a little "it could have been different" but still a powerful scene after all and I don't think besides that I have actual complaings... Only that I wanted a scene where Cassian looked at Nessian's tattoo and talked about it.... And since we are mentioning him... He has the biggest wingspan... There's no way that a bigger cock exists :)

#sarah j maas #acowar #acomaf #acotar #a court of thorns and roses #a court of frost and starlight #a court of mist and fury #acofas #a court of wings and ruin #cassian #nesta archeon #azriel #feyre archeron #rhysand #acosf #a court of silver flames #morrigan

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dutifullybitchypeach · 3 years

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ACOSF FINAL THOUGHTS. 3/5

It was good. But it could have been EPIC. I think I got caught up in the hype and should have remained blissfully ignorant. Loved Nestas journey and her finding happiness. WELL DESERVED.

However lots of loose threads, ignored angst, rushed ending, pregnancy plot overshaowed a lot - 2 chapters wasted!

It was Nestas book with Cassians POV to balance. It was interesting to read how skewed, almost backwards it was the way Nesta saw things. Like the IC behaviour/comments at times to her was counter acted then with Cassians interpretation. Really showed her low her self esteem was.

I know it's Nesta letting go and being happy with herself and I believe SJM wrote it this way to be deliberately CLEAR that the IC are NOT perfect and are 100% capable of being total pricks. BUT that they are not held accountable for their actions the same way Nesta is, was frustrating. Cold hard facts: Nesta never murdered/stole/lied/tortured/assaulted anyone. She was a bum and a drunk who spewed hurtful shite. An angry bitch. However the only thing she ever wilfully killed was the King of Hyburn at the NC's request. The level of disgust from Amren/Rhys/Mor directed at Nesta in the beginning was uncomfortable to read and didn't sit well with me.

I'll have to read it again but I was not satisfied . Nestas character arc started half way through ACOWAR. She stepped up when they needed her to.

Feyre agreeing despite her experience in Spring was a step backwards for me. Then again it's exactly what Nesta needed. Cruel to be kind. And Feyre had Nestas back repeatedly throughout the narrative.

Loved Nestas story all of it, training, friendships, self love, etc etc. Gwyn and Emerie ❤ All epic. And she's well...more interesting! Detail on Cassian killing all those monsters, scene in the big, wow so good.

Feysand overkill or perhaps Rhys overkill. Sorry SJM but you need to pull back.

Nessian happened the way I thought it would. That Cassian isn't perfect is normal. His heart is Nestas, it's pretty clear. Smut scenes, I've read better sorry !!! Intensity was not the same as previous books. More sexy and less crude for me. Missed Cassians swagger but I guess we are in his head, and he's a big cuddly insecure bear. With a big d**k.

More thoughts (in my humble opinion).

Feysand pregnancy DRAMA. Unnecessary. Keep it, just don't let it happen the way it did. I've already said I thought the sacrifice should have been for Gywn/Emerie and there is a simple tie in IMO (see previous posts). Or perhaps Cassian actually stabbing himself rather than hurting Nesta with the Queen. But I get SJM and 'losing' her power, that much power just undermines the remaining plot for next few books. Nesta could just blast them all to hell. And she stole it in anger and has let it go with love. Growth! She is clearly still hella powerful. We don't know the half of it.

For me the above was the most irritating. The ending squeezed in. And I like Feysand. But Nesta healing with Feyre needn't have been so convoluted. Or drastic. More private, perhaps a real angsty, tense conversation and confession. They didn't discuss anything.

The last few chapters too much went on...important moments; first females to win The Rite, sidelined. Accepting the mating bond, sidelined. WTF is Nestas power now, sidelined. Queen dead, sidelined. An ILLYRANIAN FEMALE KICKING ASS sidelined. I mean Christ that was Cassians goal! And nothing. NOTHING. Not even a handshake.

Rhys. It was plain uncomfortable. But someone mentioned SJM deliberately wrote Rhys that way for this book and that's true. In the Feyre POV she mentions "two mates" the reasonable one and the asshole so that, I think, is telling. He's def more HL and pulls rank in this book with everyone.

Rhys clearly witnesses Nestas trauma from her nightmare but there is no recognition with Nesta. Not a peep. Yet he clearly feels massive regret. Is that for our benefit, the readers? That at least we know. Don't hate on Rhys. (I like Rhys btw)

I'd have liked a full circle scene where they are back in THAT sitting room admiring baby Nyx and Nesta just says a few things. Cooly and calmly. She's happy they intervened, but for all their wisdom and years of living it left a lot to be desired. Nothing too crazy, just a few delivered lines, Nesta style.

Felt Nesta lost a little of her fire. But maybe you see it more from the others POV. Though they always provoked her and it was a defence mechanism. And she was a bitch at times. With others outside the IC it's clear she is not like that. Make what you will of that.

I know SJM doesn't like to over detail things but a moment with Feyre/Nyx/Nesta alone would have been nice.

The sisters never meeting Gwyn or Emerie. A scene like that would have been powerful.

Amren is as Mor rightly said is a "cranky old bastard". And "Welcome back to the Night Court Nesta Archeron" screamed, now that you've scrubbed up love come on home. I don't know. Amren was clearly done with Nesta she was the one that stood by her the most and got sick shit of her. All Amren can command is respect now and Nesta really wanted hers, possibly the most.

Can I make a point about people harping on about slut shaming. Amren made one catty observation, that Nesta would ride almost anything. No other character mentioned it. Not one. And Nesta enjoyed her bed partners, she refers to some of it (threesome!). There was zero shame. And SJM hates slut shaming. So stop. It's not a thing.

I'm nitpicking but there was a lot of hurt just left off. Perhaps that was the point. SJM was like, fuck it, Nesta doesn't want to feel that anger or resentment anymore she wants to live and be happy. She's found inner peace with herself and those that matter most. Me wanting justification for how they treated her at timea is not the point!!! Lol.

The painting, that stood out for me in ACOFAS. It hurt to read it. Maybe Feyre had nothing to paint of Nesta. They didn't talk. Share thoughts. I think Feyre asking Nesta herself to show her memories of The Rite so she could paint it would have had more impact. But it read very plainly like now you've earned your spot here...or I like you now or something. She was deliberately not there, perhaps until she wanted to be. Or finally accepted and embraced life with the IC. It was an unnecessary detail that just fueled the Feysand halo (again I like Feysand).

Nesta made those weapons therefore they are hers. Amren is power hungry. Rhys seems happy to hand them over. High King drama, I can see it. It could happen.

It's clear that Nesta didn't want to leave the NC, therefore she had to fall in. People have a problem with 'who's boss' but we've only ever had court dynamics from Rhys/Feyre POV. And they are the top dogs in the NC. We are going to have to get used of seeing Feysand make decisions from the outside. It's THEIR court. And to be fair, Feyre always had Nestas back.

And yes I believe you always have a choice with Rhys. I know some scoff at that.

Rhys kneeling to Nesta further proves our gal is a Queen. Feyre is the only one he's ever bowed to. SJM gave us that moment for Nesta and we will have to be content despite he's questionable aggressive behaviour. He clearly has issues with family given his past.

Enjoyed seeing a bit of Elaine. Finally. And Nesta delivered some home truths! Elaine needs to find some backbone. Really looking forward to her story. Go mad SJM!

Feysand POV should have been the fallout of Rhys keeping baby drama from Feyre. Now THAT I would want to hear. And perhaps Feyre saying to Nesta I'm "secretly glad you told me".

Eris I always found super interesting. It's clear to me he knows Mor is gay. Him helping her would have meant she was trapped in the AC. 'Rejecting her' allowed Rhys and Co to save her and to have freedom. She screwed him by keeping it secret. His arc will be with Lucien I think.

Az and Elaine not for me. Sorry. I'd like Lucien to find some happiness. I've spoken of this before see other posts. Az tortures people for a living, he has serious issues.

I've already spoken about Mor....remember her lol. Where is she! Ha! Actions speak louder than words with Mor. Winnow please my mate is being a dick, teach me to dance, dress shopping. But I guess she's Feyres friend, Nesta has hers. Nesta feeling ashamed as to how she treated Mor, will be interesting to see how Mor feels about that oul time when I was such a hypocrite, lol, what I really meant was....

There are 2 more books and a novella so who knows. Nessian ain't over.

Going to look forward to the fanfiction!

Thanks SJM.

#acosf spoilers #nesta archeron #nessian #a court of silver flames #elriel #feysand #sarah j maas #sjm #lucien vanserra #elucien #azriel

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ginazblog · 6 years

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ACOFAS thoughts

Not a personal attack on anyone, just my thought on ACOFAS. I welcome people to discuss with me and agree/disagree. I just want to comment why I actually liked this and when I say liked it, I mean it was better than I expected (very good fanfiction of the original trilogy lol) and I only really hated the sex scenes which is nothing new with Sarah’s books and me. I want to comment on this because It’s been a long time since I’ve read a book and fully understood where every character is coming from and why are they acting the way they do and it all for once made sense to me. And I also think this book did what it set out to do, which is: tie/solidifie Feysands arc that was left a bit in the air in ACOWAR and point us to the direction the new trilogy will go and what characters and plot it’ll focus on. First: I saw some comments about Feyre slut shaming Nesta and to me it’s such a bullshit since her only remark, and also Amren said something along the same lines in the teaser, had the purpose to rile her up and gauge a reaction. Second: Feyre being a dick to Nesta, I see people saying how she is so rude to blackmail her to come to the party and how Nesta has PTSD and Feyre should understand that Nesta doesn’t want help. Well it’s in Feyre’s character to try and help her sisters, she’s been doing it all her life starting with feeding them and also no one was saying the same thing about Rhys in ACOMAF. He also had PTSD and he used a baragin to force Feyre to feel something other than emptiness which is literally the same thing Feyre doesn here.

Third: Rhys being a dick to Nesta - I just feel like it’s in his character, he loves so hard all the people around him and is extremly loyal so I get why he would not be so keen on opening his arms to Nesta. But I get it, people might not like his character and it’s fine for this. I persoanlly don’t think much of Rhys, he is not on my radar as fave but I still get why he acts the way he does towards Nesta, Lucien, Tamlin. Fourth: No plot - what did people expect from a novella? Fifth: Feyre being dick to Lucien (there is an obvious trend here LOL) - I said it in my reading thread, that scene was super sad to me for them both. Feyre is trying her best to help Elain and everyone for that matter and they might not want it, but one thing is sure - she doesn’t hate anyone (not even Tamlin). It’s sad to me that Lucien and her were friends and everything happend, but I love that it’s not easy for them both to rekindle their friendship. And I have to say that I really liked how Nesta was portrayed here, It was unexpected for me and I was surprised that Sarah actually took this route. I literally loved everything she did and is doing with Nesta as a character. It’s realistic and maybe I love it because it’s relatable to me, but that’s the point of loving characters?

#acofas #acofas spoilers #acotar #acomaf #acowar #sarah j maas

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