#Mike can be read as gay or bi here
Text
RIP Mike Wheeler’s heterosexuality
“Is being gay contagious?”
Steve stares at his phone groggily before putting it back against his ear. “…Mike?”
“Is it?”
“It’s three in the fuckin’ morning is what it is.” He rubs his nose, Mike’s words finally catching up to his brain. “Seriously, Mike? No it’s not fucking contagious, you’re not gonna get the gay disease or whatever from me. I promise you’ll keep liking girls.”
He’s a little hurt, even though he knows the question is innocent. They’ve been asking a lot of questions, like the inquisitive little assholes they are, but none of them had seemed like they weren’t okay with it. Until now.
“…that’s not what I meant,” Mike says. Steve realizes that his voice sounds shaky, even over the phone.
“Then what—“ he cuts himself off, realizing halfway through his bitching that there was only one reason Mike would call about this. “Oh.”
“Can you pick me up?”
“It’s three in the morning,” he repeats, even as he starts wondering where he left his keys. “Your mom…”
“Steve,” Mike pleads. “Please?”
He sighs. “I’m on my way.”
Mike is sitting on his doorstep when he pulls up, head in his hands. Steve doesn’t have to get out of the car, he stalks to the passenger door with all the vitriol of a boy with too many emotions to hold in, and wrenches the door open hard enough that Steve worries he’s going to break it.
“Watch it, noodle arms,” he says, trying to pretend this is normal. Maybe if he acts like it’s not well past midnight, Mike will relax.
It doesn’t work. Mike slumps in his seat, not bothering with the seatbelt. “Can you just drive?”
Steve drives. Doesn’t really know where they’re going, but it doesn’t matter. Just away seems to suffice.
He eventually pulls into a side road
“I’m scared to even touch another guy now! Because apparently hugging is gay when you’re older, and so is sleeping in the same bed, and telling your friends you love them, and…and I’m fucking scared all the time, ‘cause what if they’re right? How do they know? How can they tell by just fucking looking at me? It’s bullshit!”
“Shit, kid,” Steve says, heartbroken. “Shit. C’mere.”
He pulls him close, and Mike turns his face into the crook of his neck, shaking. His shirt collar starts to get damp.
“I don’t know what to do,” he cries. “I thought it was normal, I thought everyone was just…so scared all the time, and we just didn’t talk about it. But then you said that thing about being afraid and pushing it down, and I didn’t— I tried to ignore it. I tried so hard not to think about it, Steve, I swear I tried.”
“I know you did,” he says quietly. It hits him that he might be the only one who really gets it. Eddie gave up denying it long ago, deciding to evolve into something else for them to focus on. Robin’s a girl. Which doesn’t mean jack shit in most cases, because being a lesbian fucking sucks in a town like Hawkins, but girls aren’t as obsessive about it. Sometimes when they compare notes, Robin will just stare at him.
Mike shakes his head. “I don’t know what I did wrong,” he mumbles tearfully into his shoulder.
“You didn’t do anything wrong,” Steve says with a surprising amount of vehemence. He grabs Mike by his scrawny little shoulders, pulls him away so he can look directly into his bloodshot eyes. “Not a damn thing, do you hear me? There is nothing wrong with you, and anyone who tells you otherwise deserves a swift kick in the balls. Got it?”
Mike responds by bursting into loud, messy sobs.
Steve just keeps holding him, running a hand through his hair and soothing him gently, like he wishes someone had done for him or Robin or Eddie when they were young. Finally Mike pulls away, embarrassment starting to set in.
“Sorry,” he mutters.
“Can I tell you a secret?” Steve asks instead of a meaningless platitude he knows Mike wouldn’t accept.
Mike gives him a suspicious look. “I guess.”
“I’m scared too. All the time.”
“No you’re not,” Mike snorts. “You don’t need to make me feel better just because I’m a pussy.”
“I’m not joking,” he says. “Why do you think I dated girls? Why do you think I went through so many lengths to hide it? It’s fucking terrifying, man. But you know what makes it less scary?”
“Dating girls? Marrying a woman?”
“No.” He pokes Mike’s chest, right over his heart. “People. Friends who love and accept you. Friends who know what you’re going through, even.”
“Do you…” Mike chews his lip. “Do you think Nancy would be okay with it? With me?”
“Absolutely I do. She was okay with me, wasn’t she? And I was her boyfriend.”
“Yeah, but it’s different when it’s your family, right? Sometimes people don’t care if someone is… people don’t care until it affects them. Do you think Nancy is like that?”
He knows Nancy isn’t like that, but that's a talk they’re going to have to have themselves. “I really don’t,” he encourages. “I think she’d be really glad to know this part of you, actually. She loves you.”
“…I know,” he says, shifting uncomfortably. “I don’t… we made this dumb no secrets pact the first time the Upside-Down happened, I don’t know why. It’s stupid. But…I don’t want to keep secrets from her anymore.”
#stranger things fanfic#steve harrington#mike wheeler#lavender overload au#this is part of my finished fic where Steve and Robin get married#Mike can be read as gay or bi here#Mike and Steve is an underrated dynamic and I love them being friends#‘oh but mike hates steve-‘ WRONG. mike hates that he wants his sisters dumb idiot ex boyfriends approval#like don’t get me wrong I do think he hated Steve at one point#but after he protected them from Billy I think it went out the window#and now he begrudgingly thinks steve is cool. and HATES it#the funniest moment in all of stranger things is when Steve called Mike Nancy while concussed#and Mike gave him the most disgusted insulted face imaginable#i laughed so hard
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The Harrington Pattern Part 9
As you guys wanted, here's me doubling up on posting days. It will (hopefully) be twelve hours apart so that each chapter can get some love.
In this chapter we have a lot of flirting between Eddie and Steve. The Party being "meh" *shrugs shoulders* at Steve being bi. And Robin being the most soulmate a guy could ask for.
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8
MY TAG LIST FOR THIS STORY IS CLOSED!!!!
@mira-jadeamethyst @rozzieroos @itsall-taken @redfreckledwolf @emly03
****
That night they were all gathered to watch the amateur theatrical society put on Much Ado About Nothing.
Even the ones who had been reluctant to join in were doubled over in laughter at the trick the Prince pulled on Beatrice and Benedict. The way they cried when Hero was accused of cheated on Claudio. And cheered when it was resolved happily ever after.
Mike complained about it all the way to the car. “We were forced to read this play in eighth grade and I hated it. I never knew it was funny.”
Eddie put his arm around his shoulder. “That is the unfortunate side effect of the education system. They suck the joy out of all of everything.”
“Normally I’m rolling my eyes at Eddie’s rants,” Robin said, “but I’m going to have to agree with him on this one. They just want sanitized versions of everything.”
Steve nodded. “Like what’s with the jump in American history when we stop in eighth grade at the Civil War and then all the way to WWII in eleventh grade, with only a brief mention of WWI as it related to WWII. Are they really trying to tell us that nothing happened in those eighty years of note? Like the fuck?”
Mike blinked at him. “Holy shit, I never even realized.”
The kids looked around at each other in shock.
“They push math and science,” Eddie continued, “but shit on everything else, except sports.”
He winced when realized what he had said. He looked over at Steve with an apology on his lips, but Steve was nodding.
“And they have to be the right sports, too,” Steve agreed. “Wrestling, swimming, soccer...anything outside the big three baseball, football, or basketball. Trust me, I got a lot of flack on being on the swim team. It was ‘gay’.”
“What?” Will squawked. “Why?”
Eddie licked his lips. “Little, teeny, tiny uniforms.” He emphasized the point holding his fingers not that far apart.
Dustin snorted. “Can’t be any worse than the basketball shorts.”
Steve looked upwards as he chewed on the bottom of his lip.
Dustin’s eyes bulged out of his head. “How much worse are we talking about here?”
“Speedo.”
Lucas frowned. “What the fuck is a Speedo?”
Eddie was practically vibrating in his skin. “Can I tell them, Stevie? Can I please?”
Steve let out a little sigh. The sigh the Party lovingly called his mom sigh. It was the sound he made when he knew no mater what he did it was going to end badly for him, so he just...let it happen.
He waved at Eddie to go ahead.
“Instead of swim trunks, that have a leg on them,” Eddie crowed, “Speedos are swim underpants. They cover the junk, the ass, and that’s it.”
“And you deliberately wore these things?” Max asked in interest. More interest than Lucas or any of the guys were comfortable with.
“I’m good at it,” Steve said, blush creeping up his ears and down his throat from the stain on his cheeks. “The uniform wasn’t as bad Eddie’s making it out to be.”
Gareth snorted. “Nope, they really are that bad. There was a period of time where–”
Eddie slammed his hand over Gareth’s mouth. “There’s no need to tell them about that, Gare.”
Steve looked over at Brian.
“Your senior year Eddie forced all of Hellfire to watch your meets.”
“Bri!” Eddie protested.
Steve looked over at Eddie and raised an eyebrow. “You like the...what was you it called it,” he said tapping his finger on his lips, “the ‘little, teeny, tiny’ uniform, Eds?”
Eddie threw his arms in the air. “I am but a gay man in a small town, so sue me!”
“I always preferred the lifeguard uniforms at the community pool,” Steve said. “Less wedgies.”
“Babe,” Eddie scoffed, “those shorts and tank left very little to the imagination. At least with the Speedo you knew what you were getting. With the lifeguard uniform it was all fantasy.”
Steve laughed. “I bet you were the kind who faked drowning to get CPR from their favorite lifeguard.”
“I can honestly say, I’ve never done that.”
“Yeah?” Steve asked all smiles. “Can you prove that?”
Eddie got up close to him and whispered, “Yeah, darlin’. I think I would have remembered you rescuing me before the Upside Down.” He winked at him and sauntered off. The rest of the band hastily said their goodbyes and hurried after their ride home.
Steve’s face was as red as his old life guard uniform. “Right. Let’s get home, yeah?”
Dustin eye’s narrowed at him for a moment. “Steve Harrington, are you crushing on my DM?”
The remaining eight looked at Dustin in shock.
“Dude!” Will hissed. “You can’t just ask that in public! What if someone overheard you?”
Dustin looked around and waved his hand around him. “There is literally no one here. I wouldn’t do that if I didn’t think it was a safe time to ask. But I’m going home with my mom as soon as she gets here and I will not be stymied.”
Steve ducked his head. “And if I did like boys, that would be okay with everyone?”
Everyone just looked around at each other and there was this collective shrug.
“Do you still like girls?” Max asked, genuinely curious.
Steve nodded shyly.
Lucas frowned. “You can like both?”
“Like David Bowie!” El said with her serene smile. “He likes both. Freddie Mercury from Queen, too.”
Steve snapped his fingers. “Exactly like that, El!”
Her smile grew.
“It’s okay if you like Eddie that way,” Mike said softly.
All the heads snapped to look at him.
He rolled his eyes. “Yes, okay. I have a lot to work on regarding the whole Lucas thing, but I’m not a complete ass.”
“Thank you,” El said and kissed his cheek. “You just have a lot growing up to do. We all do. We just need to give each other the chances to do so safely. Or at least that’s what Joyce keeps telling me.”
Steve gave her a hug. “Thanks, Supergirl.”
He looked out at all his friends. The people who were more his family then his own parents.
“I might have a small...” he raised his finger and thumb, “crush on a certain metalhead DM who recently joined the Party in March...”
Robin scoffed. “And by little he means huge!” She spread out her arms all the way out.
Dustin’s head snapped around to Steve. “If you two get together, he better treat you right. You deserve it.”
Steve blinked. Considering how Dustin had worded his original question, he had been sure that Dustin was going to him not to break Eddie’s heart.
He gave Dustin a hug and kissed the top of his head.
He really shouldn’t have doubted this kid.
Just then, Claudia pulled up in her station wagon and Dustin, El, Will and Mike all piled in after saying their goodbyes.
“He totally has the hots for you, by the way,” Max said dryly.
Steve blinked at her for a moment. “How do you know that? Does he spend all his days learning alt rock on his guitar or something for me?”
Max just blinked at him. “Huh. You aren’t as stupid as I thought.” And then she just started walking toward the car.
Steve scratched his cheek thoughtfully. “So to make sure I got this right, Max is saying Eddie has the hots for me because he’s been learning my favorite songs for me on his guitar?”
“That’s what it sounded like to me, man,” Lucas said with a half shrug.
“I’m with Lucas on this one,” Robin agreed. “So maybe you should do what I’ve been suggesting for the last three weeks and you know ASK HIM OUT!”
Lucas giggled.
“Shush you,” Steve admonished. “Get to the car.” He pointed at Robin. “You are spending the night with me to help plan out something cool.”
Robin saluted and Lucas just rolled his eyes and they all walked to the car to end another great night at the fair.
****
“Let’s play to your strengths,” Robin said, sitting cross-legged on Steve’s bed.
“Sports, sewing, and history,” Steve said, ticking them off on his fingers. “Fat lot of good that’s going to do me. It’s not as though I can whip out something overnight as a token of my affection.”
She rolled her eyes. “It doesn’t have to be something fancy. You could do something small. Like maybe use that fancy red thread you got at the weavers yesterday.”
He blushed. “I wouldn’t know where to start. Everything I know how to make is either winter stuff or something he’d never use.”
“He uses that handkerchief all the time,” Robin pointed out. “You could do something like that.”
Steve flopped dramatically on his back. “Not if he knew it was made from that fancy thread I got. He’d want to protect it.”
Robin had to give him that one. Because that would be an Eddie thing to do. And while the sentiment was sweet it would make Steve sad that he never used it.
Suddenly Steve sat up. “Oh!”
She blinked at him. “What’s ‘oh’?”
“He was telling me just last week,” he explained, “that the bag he used to hold all his dice for their game got a hole in it and it kept spilling the dice all over the inside of his backpack!”
Robin grinned. “Let’s pick out the best material to match that pretty thread.”
Steve nodded. “I just have to make a quick phone call to find out how big the bag should be and I can have this done in no time at all.”
He called Dustin and told him his idea. Dustin was ecstatic and told him everything he needed to know.
Robin and Steve then dug into his material stores and picked out a nice black felt and a satin red lining to make doubly sure Eddie wouldn’t lose the dice down the gaping maw that was his backpack.
He then showed Robin how to make patterns and cut them. Then he got to work.
Even with how easily Robin got bored, she watched the whole time with fascination. How he embroidered his pattern into what would be the front of the bag. How quickly and evenly Steve stitched the pieces of cloth together. He explained the process every step of the way and her eyes just lit up.
He turned the bag right side out and fitted it with silver draw string. He pulled it taut and held it up to Robin to see.
She reached out and gently took it from him. “That’s so cool. You do a bunch of these at work and send them to Katie as way to gauge reactions to your work, while you make bigger pieces.”
Steve licked his lips. “You really think these would sell?”
“And I think Eddie would be pleased as punch that he got the first official Harrington Pattern design.”
Steve took it back from her and smiled. “That would make it even more special, wouldn’t it?”
Robin grinned. “Yes, yes it would.”
He threw his arms around her. “You’re the best soulmate anyone could possibly ask for.”
She blushed but held him tight. “You too, Stevie.”
When Steve finally pulled back he tapped his finger on his lips. “Now what to make you.”
Robin squealed. “But you already made something awesome. The pirate costume was amazing, you don’t have to do more just because you made Eddie something.”
Steve rolled his eyes. “Yes, but I just tailored the clothes. I didn’t make them. I want to make you something.”
She scoffed. “Like the only thing I need are gloves for marching band. Since I have to have hand-me-downs, they are either too tight or way too big.”
His eyes lit up. “I’ve never made gloves before. That would be fun and interesting to try.”
“How would you even measure something like that?” Robin asked, a small amount of hope creeping into her voice.
Steve grinned. “Do you remember those ugly ass hand turkeys they made us draw in elementary school?”
“Yeah, so?”
“Just. Like. That.”
Her eyes went wide. “Wait are you serious?”
Steve just grinned.
****
Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13
I'm not 100% sure my history experience in school is universal in the US, but in order to bridge the gap you actually had to an elective history class called Twentieth Century. Like it was straight up bullshit. And before you ask, you can bet your ass I took that class. It was taught by my favorite teacher. Of course I took that class.
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Based on the way the story has been written, especially following season 4, I do believe mike is likely gay atp. But “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” still makes sense as projection if Mike is bi because lots of closeted bi teens are confused about their feelings, especially in the 80s where terms like “bisexual” wouldn’t have been as readily accessible to kids from Hawkins, Indiana.
Simply the fact that Mike likes boys/Will could make him worried that he’s gay and cause him to hyperfixate on the concept of not liking girls more often, especially if his feelings for El were waning, or if his feelings for Will were overwhelming, even if he did in fact have a crush on El at the start of the show. Nothing says being a closeted bi teen like bouncing back and forth between “I can’t be gay, I like girls” and “Oh no, I like boys, am I gay?”
I think there’s a common misconception that the bi Mike view necessitates oversimplifying the story as “Mike used to be into El, and now he’s into Will.” That isn’t necessarily the case. A bi Mike reading can still involve internalized homophobia, projection, the heteronormative pressure to conform and date girls, repression, and most of the things we talk about here.
(I didn’t really wanna get involved in this, but I feel like this is important to add).
#byler#gay mike wheeler#bi mike wheeler#even looking at the modern media example of heartstopper#nick nelson is bi#(but the am i gay quiz he took gave him a 62% which means he likely has a male lean)#he does like girls which means he technically has the ability to like Imogen who is pretty and kind and likable#but his feelings for charlie are overwhelming#and even in a modern context where microlabels are more well known#he still gets confused and struggles to understand how he’s feeling and what it all means#why do people expect a boy growing up in hawkins indiana with a conservative father#and no internet access while going through puberty#to have a perfect grasp on what he feels towards will and el?#the bi-cyle is real too#and there are even celebs who previously identified as bi who realize they’re gay/lesbian and vice versa#in 2024#that’s why on some level the queer but unlabeled mike is the best#because it’s the best of both worlds and captures the complexity of being gay in the 80s#a definitively gay mike WOULD tie everything up in a nice cohesive unmessy neat clear narrative bow#but not everything is clear and unmessy
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Mike Wheeler and Audience Perception
(Or, Why Does Everybody Hate Mike?)
I want to stress right off the bat that this is not meant to be read as Mike hate AT ALL— this is a pro-Mike post I promise!! It just might take a lot of explaining on my end so bare with me.
I know that the general audience perception of Mike can be incredibly frustrating. Post vol. 2, and hell even during season 3, there's been a large amount of animosity towards Mike, because he isn't acting in accordance with the Mike that everyone fell in love with in seasons 1 and 2.
But here's the thing, the audience is supposed to dislike Mike.
Maybe I should clarify first, I'm not saying that the audience is supposed to dislike Mike FOREVER, but rather the audience is supposed to dislike Mike RIGHT NOW until season 5 airs and clears up a lot of his choices. And even if people do like Mike, which a lot of the smart ones do, then they are at least supposed to dislike his actions. Even the most hardcore Mike fans will admit that he has moments where he messes up, but understand the complex reasonings behind why he makes these mistakes.
I should clarify too that what I mean by "the smart ones" are the ones who see Byler as the likely outcome. Even regardless if you see Mike as gay or bi (I personally see him as gay, but that besides the current point) the only way to explain why Mike has been acting the way that he has is through his sexuality and feelings for Will, otherwise he really is being an asshole for no reason. Mike's true character is purposefully being withheld from the audience, so that they can make the reveal and it can completely recontextualize his character arc. Those that have it figured out (Bylers) are just ahead of where a typical audience member would be.
Let me put it this way:
GA that dislike Mike and MiIeven are watching the show correctly, even if they don't necessarily see Byler as an option yet.
Bylers that love Mike are one step ahead.
MiIevens that hate Mike see all the narrative information correctly, but are denying the truth.
MiIevens that love Mike are willfully changing what the narrative is presenting.
If Mike was truly acting exactly the way he was supposed to, then his actions would be more likable.
I've noticed that a ton of miIevens tend to dislike Mike. Not all, but a good number. They hate him because they believe exactly what they see on the surface level and that he's acting exactly the way he's supposed to. When Mike is ditching his friends and disregarding his interests in season 3, that's just Mike growing into his heterosexual self! Yes it's totally rude and out of character, but Mike is meant to be with El which means that he is doing exactly what he is supposed to do, right?
Is it possible to have this arc without Mike being unlikable? I mean, it’s not impossible, but it would be extremely difficult. The whole point is that Mike has not been acting like himself for the past two seasons, so it’s important to show that when he acts like this it is not a good thing, and this is not only proven through the audience’s perception but also through the characters perception in show. Mike gets called on his bullshit in universe by Will and Dustin! You are supposed to see that what he’s doing is strange!
Let me put it this way, if all of Mike's current actions were liked and supported by not only the audience AND the characters within the story— this would make the reveal that he hasn't been acting truthfully not work.
I’ll use a pretty robust example, let’s consider a character dynamic that, while not romantic, is widely loved by most audience members: Steve and Dustin.
Let’s say that in season 5, it’s revealed that Steve actually hates Dustin and doesn’t like being his friend. Not only would the audience strongly dislike that, but it wouldn’t match any of what was being shown in show. There’s no reason to believe that Steve doesn’t like Dustin, so that reveal would just feel cruel and cheap.
Let’s also say that Mike was actually a perfect boyfriend and friend for the past two seasons. He’s always able to say “I love you” to El. He isn’t possessive of her. He doesn’t ice out his friends (especially Will) just to be with her. He doesn’t try ti be someone he’s not. His actions are loved by the audience and the characters. And THEN it’s revealed that he’s gay and loves Will. Wouldn’t that feel off?
While Bylers may be used to being faced with intense homophobia from certain MiIevens and toxic fandom members, the typical GA member actually isn’t homophobic. Most GA don’t like MiIeven, but they’re indifferent to Byler because they don’t see it as a possibility quite yet because they don’t read into it as closely as we do. It’s not because they are media illiterate, it’s just because they watch the show casually. The general consensus that I actually saw from GA on twitter is that they actually wanted more of Will and Mike and were dissapointed with their lack of attention from the season.
The unfortunate thing about Mike and audience perception is that we have to wait for the payoff. There’s not really anything that can be done about that, it’s just how the television production cookie crumbles. I also don’t think that it’s a bad thing for Mike to have pronounced flaws, if anything it makes his character more interesting and dynamic. Some of my favorite characters in media are ones that are deeply flawed but have a redemption arc. Although, I guess this would be less of a redeption arc and more of a recontextualization arc? Either way, I’m excited for the audience to finally see Mike the way that they’re supposed to.
#mike wheeler#happy birthday mike everyone hates you#btw thats an uppercase i when i write miIeven#stranger things analysis#my analysis#anti mileven#anti milkvan#byler
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byler tag these days simulator
🫂 bylerairporthug Follow
Hey guys .am i the only one who doesn't know whats the Waterfalls and village? Can someone let me in on the joke?
#byler #byler endgame #waterfallgate
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💀 iknowwhatyouarevecna Follow
The way they look at each other in this scene.... please be fr they're so in love like. suffer brothers i will come for you if you don't make Byler canon . im storming into the Netflix studios idc
#byler #st5 #byler is endgame #byler is real
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👨🏻🦲baldmikhailfanaccount Follow
POV its 2025, you're sitting on your couch ready to watch st5 . FINALLY. you press play on netflix. the opening scene . youve eaited years for this moment. tbe camera shows one waterfall. then another. then another one to complete the three. someone's voiceover comes on. it sounds weirdly like finn's voice, but there's something off about it... he comes on screen. it is mikhail. and he is bald. he tells the main characters to not worry, they've found the local village and will be safe from the ud here. you wake up screaming
#byler #mikhailgate #mikhail
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🎨 what-did-you-think-really Follow
let's not forget what happened with that other actor. please stop speculating on someone's sexuality, it is none of our business and he would have said something.
#byler #<- target audience
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✉️ lettergate-writing Follow
hii I was thinking and im working on this new au, it would be if mike wasn't that oblivious in ST4 and there was only one bed. anyways lmk what you think im also thinking maybe lettergate? wr all know it's real tbh
#byler #byler fic #also new chapter of my rewrite of freezer scene is up if u. are interested in that then also check out my other works #letterwrites
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🎉 partyrockismikewheely Follow
Uhhh i was away for literally two weeks what is a waterfall?? Village?? and did we get episode titles
#byler #target audience
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🐢 bylering4ever Follow
honestly soooo so tired of bi mike vs gay mike discourse. in the end he wants to kiss will byers. who cares
#byler #"it doesnt make sense narratively for him to be x or y" UHHH have you heard of having fun with hcs. #is this your first fandom.
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🎂 birthdaygate1407 Follow
always thinking about how mike and will are each other's first true loves and they're probably married nowadays, making comics together being successful. i mean, they're old now. and they are still together. man.
#byler #sometiems it hits me. they're so meant to be #endgame byler
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💇🏻♂️ blue-n-yellow-meet Follow
Ok here's some more tweets from that account. Honestly take all of this with a grain of salt as we can't know who's behind this, they say they're working on the set. Possible spoilers.
Read more
#st5 speculation #st5 #anti milkvan #byler #<- Target audience. #stranger things 5
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💛hearteyes-cgi-truther Follow
HEJQJAHEJJWHSSJ OMG . wraaagehehdgeh
#byler #the way im insane abt them #might even say #crazy #like. they need to kiss. on the mouth #boyfriends
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#byler#if u have one of these urls plwase do not sue me im nice i swear. this is for fun#so i didnt include assholes in general. biphobes. real life shippers. etc.#fabis stuff
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Genuine Q: how is the boys only sign a gay proof for Mike Wheeler and a sign that he isn’t bi? Isn’t he just saying “Boys Only” because they go into a men’s space? Like they weren’t gonna go into a women’s bathroom/locker room? And Lucas goes with them, so if that’s “gay Mike proof,” wouldn’t that make Lucas gay too? Saying “boys only” is not a gay thing either in general, lots of media has moments where straight male characters break off for “bro talk” or “just the guys” and it has nothing to do with their sexuality. Are guys not allowed to socialize with their gender without it being a queercoding clue? (Is it lesbian when girls go into the bathroom together?)
see i was debating the value of presenting my arguments because i truly don't know if you're up for civil discussing or not, but i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.
dear anon. your first mistake here is watching and thinking of the show as one dimentional : aka, you think of mike as a person with free will figuring out how to go about trapping a dangerous murderous cunt inside a sauna. in a non meta way, in their world, it is absolutely what's happening, it's just mike stating "i figured something out, will, lucas, follow me." but a tv show is two dimentional : there is a meta layer to the dialogues, to the set design, to the character blocking etc. there are a lot of thoughts put into those decisions, and writers have a lot of fun figuring out how stuff something that on surface level is innocent and devoid of importance with double meaning.
i'll give you one example, when will is encouraging el when she's called to do a presentation for class, you can read the word "HENRY" above his neck. in THEIR world, this is just a random name that happens to have been written on a piece of paper and stuck to the wall after discussing whatever henry dude will and el's curiculum asked the teachers of california to talk about. in OUR world, as people watching a tv show, the set design decision to place it here, the director's decision to have the cameraman do this specific shot and to place noah in this specific way is foreshadowing. it's a hint. it's a meta detail. it SHOULD mean something to you.
another example ! jason telling lucas "you first hangover feels like you're going to split in two" is not about jason knowing he was quite literally going to end up split in two, he is just recounting his experience with his first hangover to lucas. to US, in a meta way, it's significant, because it was foreshadowing, it was a hint, it was MEANINGFUL. it wasn't a random choice of words from the writers that coincidentally ended up lining up with jason's death down the line. it was INTENTIONAL. jason as a person was not saying anything more than just "man hungovers are a real bitch lol", jason as a tv show character was quite literally telling us how he was going to meet his demise.
another one : max in the school's bathroom. there is a graffiti on the wall with "i see you" and a little doodle of two blue eyes. in their world, whoever wrote this was obviously not doing this in vecna's name. it's a random person who randomly decided oto have some fun and graffiti this particular thing. in a meta way, this is referencing vecna. it's not a coincidence. especially considering this is a max scene and her arc is very closely linked to vecna this season.
do you see where i'm going with this ?
mike in hawkins indiana 1985, saying "i have an idea, boys only." is just letting lucas and will know that he figured out how to stop billy and that this plan requires going somewhere max and el can't follow. in their world, that's it ! but in our world, in the double meaning way (which is a very real thing, if you insinuate the stranger things dialogue, or most of cinema dialogues are "not that deep" you are quite literally insulting writers everywhere, like. straight up), in the "this is a character who's words are chosen by someone else with purpose" way, this particular phrasing is meaningful. he didn't say "i have a plan, follow me to the men's locker room guys". the writers chose a specific phrasing. it's even more obvious recontextualized : mike JUST fought with will, who told him his obsession with growing up was ruining them and the party. mike, affected by those words tries to figure out what that whole argument and his own reaction to it means to and for him. he has an idea to figure it out, and it is to let himself wander into "what if... i was..." territory as we do see in the second half of S3. (i would include screencaps but i can't be bothered rn)
mike's reaction at the end of s3 aka the conclusion of his S3 arc (in 3 parts : pushing dnd and queerness away because it's not socially acceptable -> why am i even doing this ? why am i acting like this -> right. i'm actually gay and terrified to be.) goes something like this : a scene flirting with will, followed by a scene of el kissing him and not reciprocating, followed by a scene that is shot in the same way a scene in which a character realizes something shows us the conclusion that mike has come to about himself : yes, he is gay. his own theory about himself actually being into boys was the correct theory.
i think that answers the second part of your ask. someone choosing for mike to lay out his plans with this choice of words at this particular moment in the story is heavy queercoding. had it been dustin (random choice, he wasn't even there), whose narrative is simply not mike's, it would have been meaningless. it wouldn't even have been worded like that.
in the case of mike, because it is mike and because of the nature of his storyline, it isn't.
#ignore the weird grammar and typos i am but a french native lad after all#i hope this is concise enough anon i feel like i kinda went everywhere with this#anon#asks#gay mike wheeler
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Genuine question: how am I supposed to reconcile mike actually being attracted to el in the story with their constant familial parallels? Like genuinely how? I’m really asking. Some bylers think bi mike is good and that’s great, but sometimes it just feels weird. And I don’t really know how I would feel if bi/unlabeled mike was canon because of it.
You’re not. You’re not supposed to reconcile it. Because Mike is gay and was never attracted to El. Those familial parallels are intentionally written into the story to demonstrate Mike’s lack of attraction to El (and also because Mike and El are very likely blood cousins in the Edward timeline, which you can read about here and here).
I completely agree with you and I also find it weird. This is one of the major reasons why I don’t like bi Mike and why I don’t think it’s accurate/canon. Those familial parallels didn’t just pop up out of nowhere/weren’t just added for funsies. I’m sorry but I can’t take “mike was attracted to el” truthers seriously when El asked if he would be her brother right before they kissed. It’s SUPPOSED to make you feel weird and uncomfortable and frankly I think it’s more weird when people AREN’T weirded out by it.
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I disagree that bi mike wouldn’t make sense within the show’s canon. I strongly believe it would make MORE sense within the show’s canon for many different reasons, and that 99% of the evidence gay mike truthers try to twist to say explicitly confirms gay mike can coexist and be used to support bi mike without much adjusting. I think when you carefully analyze seasons 1 through 4 it’s pretty clear that mike had genuine romantic feelings for El at the beginning of the story. And there’s a lot of subtle things that support a bi mike reading. I think a significant portion of aggressive anti-bi mike theories are rooted in either biphobia, a misunderstanding of the nuances of what it means to be bi, or a desire to avoid having to accept mike’s early canon romantic feelings for El (enshrined into the scripts) cause that would mean accepting that it’s a love triangle. I think gay mike makes sense but it is in no way the only sound theory. And I’m not talking about headcanons, I’m talking about the text of the show
ok i know i said earlier i would respond to this in full but honestly there is WAY too much i could get into and this topic has been discussed to death at this point and i’m not interested in starting discourse again, so i’m really gonna try to be brief (spoiler alert, i failed). first of all, here’s my own gay mike analysis from months ago, back when i personally hadn’t seen any actual analysis about it yet and decided to just go through and analyze the show myself. many others have written much more thorough and articulate analyses, so i encourage anyone to seek those out if you’re really interested in developing an informed opinion about it. but if you’re already convinced one way or another, i’m probably not going to change any minds here, because this has all been said before.
the one thing i’m actually going to try to address here is the claim that mike was at some point genuinely romantically attracted to el, because as far as i can tell, that is the ONLY actual argument FOR bi mike. i haven’t seen anyone ever give evidence or try to argue that mike has shown attraction to any other specific woman or to women generally. if i’m wrong about that, please point me to that analysis (don’t tell me about bi flag colors around him though bc those three colors show up together everywhere in the show and are not specific to mike in any way, i don’t think that’s relevant “evidence”). also, i’m not looking at the scripts here, because i’m really only interested in ACTUAL CANON and the literal content of the show itself overrides any partial, text drafts of it, which is what scripts are. they are written for the specific purpose of filming the show and do not provide full and complete context (and what we are TOLD in this show does not always line up with what we are SHOWN).
just to be absolutely clear, i think that (disregarding the mountains of both textual and subtextual evidence of his LACK of attraction to women) mike having shown genuine romantic attraction to even one woman would be enough for him to be legitimately canonized as bisexual, but in all my understanding and analysis of the show, he has not.
from what i understand, bi mike truthers believe that mike had genuine romantic feelings for el in the earlier seasons that either faded over time or just never evolved past the initial childhood crush stage. i’ve addressed the latter idea before (in a post i can't find rn), but to sum up, crushes on people of a different gender, especially in youth, and during times when one is unsure of or figuring out one’s sexuality are COMMON among gay people. having a childhood crush is not the same thing as having genuine romantic feelings, and therefore is not valid evidence toward any particular sexuality. the insistence that it is concrete evidence of bisexuality is rooted in homophobia and a fundamental misunderstanding of the nuance of gay identity.
the first claim though, that he did have genuine romantic feelings in the beginning, but they faded over time, is what i’m going to focus on. i touched on this in my analysis linked above, but i’m going to try to explain again here. mike’s feelings for el have always been demonstrated with extreme consistency throughout the seasons. after their initial meeting and once mike learns to trust her, each time mike has been in a position to tell el how he feels about her, from season one all the way through to season four, he has behaved in the exact same way: he has struggled to put his feelings into words, refusing to outright claim romantic feeling or intent, and ultimately failed to communicate with el in a way she understands.
similarly, when faced with expressing romantic affection toward or about her, he has behaved with confusion, discomfort, and outright rejection of others’ assumptions of his romantic feelings. (read the analysis for more specifics on this)
each of these times is also rife with familial coding and parallels that subtextually explain WHY he is struggling to either voice or demonstrate romantic attraction. for just one specific example, in the first season, right before their first kiss, mike begins to excitedly describe the relationship that the two of them are about the have with each other (in not so many words) as one of a brother and sister. when el correctly infers this implication from his words, he grows confused, because he had been told previously by lucas, dustin, and even nancy, that his feelings for el were romantic. but he relents, and agrees that that is what his description meant. immediately after their first kiss, during which el is dressed in his sister's clothes, and which mike initiates when he can't find the words to express romantic attraction to her, his first word is.... "nancy." and later, when el is weak from killing the lab people who've been chasing them, mike repeats his earlier promise: that when all this is over, his family will become hers.
this is one thing that i genuinely can’t understand when it comes to the idea that mike ever truly liked el romantically. almost (if not) ALL of their interactions, especially in season one, have some sort of parallel to a familial relationship for one or both of them, on top of many of their interactions blatantly referencing the concept of the two of them being like family to one another. the absolute volume of these instances and the unyielding consistency of this pattern, again, beginning from the very first episode of season one and continuing all the way through season four, means that it is undoubtedly intentional. with that in mind, i cannot see any reading of their relationship that leaves room for genuine romantic feelings, when ALL of the subtext, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, overwhelmingly presents them as family.
i’m not going to get way into the subject of compulsory heterosexuality because i could go on forever and i don’t want to, but the timeline of events in el and mike’s relationship arc makes it very clear that that's what’s happening. for el, her arc of independence is (not solely, but still) intrinsically tied to her relationship with mike. for mike, his struggle with his sexuality, specifically his lack of attraction to girls concurrent with his present attraction to boys (MOST presently Will), coincides directly with his relationship arc with el. i’m just going to link a couple of my screenshot posts where i've attempted to demonstrate this, bc i can't find it in me to explain all the nuances of comphet and the complex way these three characters' narratives have been intertwined (i'm bad at tagging so i can't find many, but here, here, here)
you might want to argue against my above points with scenes like the snowball dance, where he calls her beautiful and kisses her, or the make out scene in season three. but both the familial coding/parallels and the overarching themes of forced conformity (aka compulsory heterosexuality) associated with the snowball in my view completely changes the context behind the surface narrative of a “sweet romantic moment,” especially when you consider the coinciding narrative of mike’s relationship with will and the subtext of what that dance means for both of them. similarly, that make out scene, which can also be read as further evidence of mike’s discomfort with physical affection with el, as well as the overall arc of their entire season 3 relationship, is presented to be directly relevant to (specifically, in direct contrast with) mike’s evolving relationship with will, which IS genuinely romantic.
when i say that bi mike would be bad representation, this is what i mean. his “attraction” to el is consistently directly related to and contrasted with his relationship with will, coding his feelings for girls (most specifically the one girl for whom he has ever shown potential for romantic attraction) as lesser than his feelings for boys (specifically will, but ALSO OTHER MEN). bi rep that prioritizes and values attraction for one gender AT THE EXPENSE of attraction for another feels like an extremely problematic representation of bisexuality, if that's really what they are trying to portray. and this is not even getting into the countless subtextual clues that mike specifically DOES NOT LIKE GIRLS. (our son with a girl?, it’s not my fault you don’t like girls, el? sorry not interested, disgusted face next to “women in science,” blatant lack positive of response to “phoebe cates only hotter,” women’s room GET OUT, boys only, blatant and continued confusion over lucas and dustin’s attraction to max, "trying to solve the mystery of the female species" *LOUD BELCH* etc etc these are just off the dome and these are things that DO NOT WORK as queer coding if mike IS attracted to girls but VERY MUCH DO if he is gay. and there are SO MANY of them. more than that, if he is attracted to girls, then they are examples of the show consistently belittling that attraction, which again feels like a pretty shitty way to do bi representation)
god there’s so much more to this, but i can’t get into every little thing because it would take forever. literally there is SO MUCH evidence against it that i genuinely feel that the narrative would not make sense anymore if mike were revealed to be bi in season 5.
just to address a couple other things you said: i think the reason anti bi mike theory might sometimes come off as aggressive is because when one actually analyzes the entire content of the show, the evidence for specifically gay mike is OVERWHELMING and the claim that there is just as much evidence for bi mike remains unsupported, unsubstantiated, and at a certain point comes off as just willfully ignoring canon and even, at times, homophobic. i always see claims that some gay mike analysis is biphobic, and yet i have never seen any evidence of this. the claim that mike is not attracted to women, despite having been in a relationship with one, IS NOT biphobic. the claim that he is not bisexual, despite many people believing he is and wanting that representation, is NOT biphobic. the claim that his feelings for el have always been platonic and not romantic is NOT biphobic. it is an analytical conclusion based on the content of the show itself. i don’t doubt that some gay mike truthers have been biphobic, but i have not seen any actual gay mike ANALYSIS that is specifically biphobic (if you can provide concrete evidence, i will recant this, but i know that i and others have been careful not to resort to any sort of stereotyping or attempts at “analysis” that are rooted in biphobia). conversely, the claim that mike being in a romantic relationship with a woman and behaving romantically with her is PROOF that he is bisexual IS inherently rooted in homophobia and again, a misunderstanding of the nuance of what it means to be gay. i know (or assume, i guess) that most bi mike truthers aren’t outright thinking this way, and really believe mike’s romantic feelings to have been genuine, but as i and many others have tried to explain, when you do what the show is constantly telling you to do and look deeper than the surface level narrative, all of the canonical evidence from mike’s relationship with el actually explicitly and unambiguously points to the fact that his romantic interactions with her were NOT a result of genuine attraction, but rather a result of compulsory heterosexuality and a part of the natural process of figuring out his sexuality.
you also claim gay mike theorizing could come from "a desire to avoid having to accept mike’s early canon romantic feelings for El" but the fact is that it's not a desire for mike not to have had feelings for el (that assumption playing into the idea that gay mike truthers simply don't want him to be bi, hence the claims of biphobia) but what's actually happening is analysis that leads to the conclusion that he canonically did not have romantic feelings for el. the misconception is that gay mike truthers are simply projecting their own desires onto the text instead of what they're actually doing: critically analyzing it. i'd argue that bi mike truthers are the ones who want to avoid having to accept mike's lack of attraction to women, despite all of the evidence for it.
i've read a lot of analysis on here, from a lot of different perspectives, and i can truly say that every single comprehensive, good faith analysis of mike’s character i've ever seen has come to the same conclusion. he’s gay.
#not tagging this w anything bc again i don't want to start discourse and i'm done talking about this for now#i was gonna add a bunch of screenshots but i'm tired and this is enough i'll make some ss posts later and maybe link them#i have a couple in mind i've been meaning to make#mikesbasementasks
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I yapped way too much in this post so skip to the big text if you don’t want to read all of the specific things, but in general I’m curious how people who don’t think Mike is gay/bi and think he’s a good character defend him.
Ok, so I know this is something a lot of other people have probably said, but I think if Byler isn’t canon Mike is a horrible character. Under the assumption that Byler is canon, his actions make sense. Season 3 Mike is still a dick, but I understand why, and I can kind of relate so I immediately jump to his defense whenever someone says he’s a bad character. But if Mike isn’t struggling with sexual identity and heteronormativity and all that shit, he does seem pretty poorly written. I realized this while arguing with my mother, because she hates Mike, and a lot of the GA does—because a lot of the GA doesn’t think Mike is queer.
Mike’s behavior towards both Will and El in a lot of instances is only well explained by him being queer; for instance, his inability to tell El he loves her and how he acts around Will in the beginning of season 4. He can’t say “I love you” because he doesn’t love her—not in the way that would imply, at least. I often change my mind about whether I think Mike is bi or gay, so it could be that he had a crush on her before but is in love with Will, or that he never liked her romantically at all, it doesn’t really matter. He’s still not in love with her, but he does love her (platonically), and he’s confused and feels pressured to keep up the facade that they’re a perfect happy couple. Why he’s unable to say it doesn’t make much sense otherwise. Not being able to write it in letters could be explained by how he’s watched his parents not express love to each other, but why can’t he say it when prompted? I could understand his hesitancy, but not his outright refusal, when he knows it’s what El wants to hear. The only time he says it is when El’s life is on the line and after Will encourages him, which doesn’t seem like a huge improvement.
Similarly, his treatment of Will is strange. Why can’t he hug his best friend? I know they haven’t talked in a while, but there’s really no reason for it to be so awkward. I also think Mike kind of ignoring Will in favor of doing couple stuff with El is because it’s what he thinks he’s supposed to do (heteronormativity!!), but he clearly was paying attention to Will, enough to call him out for “moping” all day. And then there’s his unnecessary emphasis on “We’re friends. We’re friends.” There’s no reason for him to clarify it. He’s defensive, because he’s considering the possibility that they could be anything other than friends, which Will did not suggest. This scene is obviously a parallel to the rain fight in s3, too, in which Mike says his iconic “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” line. A lot of people suspect this is more projection than anything else, which could be true. Otherwise he’s being a massive asshole, because obviously he knows how it sounds, even if he didn’t intend it to reference Will’s sexuality. He knows how Will’s been bullied for it, whether it’s true or not. I’m not 100% sure about that one, but it’s interesting.
Anyway, I’m saying all of this because I’m curious how non Byler shippers defend Mike. I know a lot of the GA just hates him, but if you really love Mileven then you can’t hate one half of the ship. So.
Milevens, what makes Mike Wheeler a good, well written character and not a shitty, poorly written asshole?
(p.s.: let’s all respect each other’s opinions on ships because we’re all just here to have fun!! obviously I’m a byler but I love you milevens!!)
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heyyy, I will start reading demons of change now because it's seems really good I just have a quick question about it. Is Madwheeler a romantic ship here at some point or just a friendship though the fic? It's not going to make me not read it, I just want to know to prepare myself bc I see them like brother and sister and Mike as gay so it's really awkward to see them kissing or something LOL
anyway, I love your byler fics and I am sure I will love that one too!
Hey there love! Madwheeler in Demons is as I’ve tagged lol—-which is platonic with a disregard for boundaries!
So they are intimate in some ways but it is not in a way that is truly romantic! If that makes sense. I think if you start to understand Demons’ version of Mike it will be a natural fit for Madwheeler in this fic. But I do want to stress that it’s a Platonic Soulmates vibe for them and not traditionally romantic.
Let me know if you end up enjoying that! I really do love the Madwheeler dynamic, whether that be romantic or platonic…yet I know that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea! But I just hope that people give my fics a chance despite that. 🥰
As a side note…in Demon…Mike is unlabeled and I’ve sort of leaned into a Pan Identity for him in this fic, so as it is, I have taken some liberties with him in this AU, while still trying to stay true to his character. And I hope that makes sense!
I’ve generally had a really beautifully positive response to this version of Mike, and he is near and dear to my heart…and in turn his relationship with Max in this story is a very important dynamic! While remaining rather platonic. 😊
As a side note I am generally a bi Mike truther, so I do explore his sexuality in some different ways than the general fandom in fics. But! I hope that I write Mike and Will’s love well enough where even gay Mike truthers can find some beauty in their dynamic.
Hope this helps!! And drop me a line when and if you decide to read! I am curious of your thoughts, dear Anon!
#byler#will byers#stranger things#mike wheeler#justmyname#byler fanfic#madwheeler#demons of change#bi mike wheeler#gay mike wheeler
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@cryscendo wanted to hear more about my Hevans AU so here are a couple of my favorite bullet points on my extensive outline.
Below a cut because I got too excited and it's long
Rocky Horror happens but like… what if Sam plays Frank and Kurt plays Rocky? Like they try to shoehorn kurt into frank and instead he says he might want to play rocky.
Sam asks about playing frank n furter after Mike’s parents pull him from the show. It’s after he’s read through the script and now understand what the show is about and it’s definitely not because frank gets to fool around with rocky.
Sam is the one who sees Karofsky cornering kurt by his locker. No talking to shue or sue because they’re useless
Sam overhears finn refusing to help Kurt and goes off on him for it.
Kurt being the one to fawn over Sam when he gets hurt in the fight with karofsky
Sam maybe offers to help Kurt teach finn and burt how to dance
That’s the first time Sam hears about karofsky threatening to kill kurt
Kurt and sam dance down the isle together, putting quinn and mercedes together
Same happens during just the way you are, kurt hands burt off to carole and he looks for mercedes but Sam appears to take over
Sam and Kurt get the duet for Sectionals
"Kurt, I want you to look me in the eye, okay? And answer this question. If we lived in a world where noone cared about you being gay or me being bi and there was no reason to see us as anything other than two people who happen to be singing a love song… would you still be uncomfortable singing this song with me? Because I genuinely do not care what anyone thinks about it, I don't care if they think I'm gay, if they make fun of me, or any of that. But if you feel uncomfortable singing a love song with me for a reason other than protecting me, then I will drop it and we can sing something else. But I would love to sing this song with you."
Kurt being very uncomfortable during the sex ed lessons from miss holiday
Sam actively asking her for resources of queer sex
Kurt panicking and thinking Sam is asking for right now and not just because he wants to be prepared for the future so he can make kurt’s first time special if they get there
“I’m not ready for that”
“Oh, babe, I know. And that’s okay. I dont’ expect you to be ready today or tomorrow or even anytime soon. I just want to make sure I know what I’m doing, so that when or if we ever do have sex… I can make it special or you”
Okay, so why would the santana and karofsky thing happen in this? Would it just be because she wants to pull the jock vote? Is it just for the beard thing? How does she not turn the entire glee club against her? Did she still make him apologize to Kurt and the rest of the Glee club? How does Sam react to Santana dating Karofksy?
Oh, fuck it, none of that matters. Karofksy will just run with someone else, it’s just simpler that way.
Rachel could still ask Sam to go to prom with her “because obviously you can’t go with Kurt since you’re not out” You know, because she’s awful.
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personal gay/bi mike ramblings & other late night thoughts //
Been thinking about how I relate way more to gay Mike as a bi dude rather than to bi Mike. (This isn’t whos interpretation is right or anything) I’ve seen the post that was like both gay byler would portray different experiences under one label and show that no label outright owns a specific experience. A bi Mike’s arc would be more about choices in relation to others with less introspection and a gay Mike’s arc would explain internal turmoil and self depreciation in relation to a queer identity and the need to hide it, which would require more of it . And ofc gay people don’t own this flavor of experience but in Mike’s case would explain his actions if under that lense for me personally. Also noticed the later headcanon is more prevalent for those with a bigger Mike bias than Will which is interesting.
Also thinking about what a mess or I guess how much ambiguity there is in both Will & Mike’s characterization when it comes to their relation to their sexualities which ultimately causes people to develop strong opinions and get angry when people get their arcs or dynamics wrong. The thing is that the Duffers like ambiguity - it gives them freedom and they also don’t like to state things outright when it comes to identities and very important sociopolitical issues while trying to be “realistic” /half-neg ( ex: Karen & Nancy talking about feminism without mentioning women, the way Robin’s coming out was handled without mentioning any gay words while the show is comfortable using homophobic words )
Anyway almost got heated on a completely separate topic.
It is sometimes confusing as to what is meant to be presented as a “Will Arc” and a “Mike Arc” On the one hand Will struggles from overt homophobia from others and from Lonnie growing up, on the other hand he has Joyce, Jonathan, Mike, and the party who adore him and while I doubt Will understands that they would accept him no matter what, there’s definitely an earlier self acceptance in his identity as a hyper-visible gay man(you can see it with the Turing Project & the bravery with the painting). I define internalized homophobia as “a set of complex contradicting behaviors based on society’s homophobia and heteronormative pressures” and some people define it as “being sad that people are being homophobic to someone” I think both Will and Mike have degrees of both and sometimes it’s hard to see how much of either both characters have. And for Mike, it solely depends on how you read his sexuality thus explaining his actions and feelings. Again, it is vague which I think is humanizing and realistic.
I won’t touch the dynamics topic until the tag evolves beyond late stage fandom spoon/fork binarization of gay relationships but just noting that aspect of byler isn’t void of complexity.
One last thought for the night:
Just looking at the fandom and noticing unfortunate patterns. Mainly the desire to be right above all else and largely at the expense of collective fun and creativity which is like the main point of fandom. I think it comes mostly from having to fight the GA and m*levens to prove we aren’t crazy (insert Joyce Byers gif here) a year ago and that mentality sticking for way too long. Like the desire to to defend your thoughts and feel your feelings strongly about a topic is amazing and is another big fandom driver but at some point people getting angry for fanon, headcanons, people having fun making things in a way that isn’t popular loud accounts approved is honestly concerning. I see it a lot from the side I agree with too and it’s like. We can do better right? Not everything needs to be activism tinged?
Anyway anyway thanks for reading this far I’m passing the whole fandom edibles as we collectively rewatch the source material and resetting our very “seeing red at posts we disagree with” adled brains. 💕
#stranger things#mike wheeler#will byers#byler#thoughts#vague discourse shit#fandoms should be fun#fandoms should be collaborative#fandoms should make you excited to see creativity and thoughts of others#did the autism machine break for half of you
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So hi, I'm the same anon who talked about the double standard with Madwheeler and Byler and I've seen one of your rebblogs implying that I said if you don't like a queer ship you are homophobic and that's not what I said at all.
First, Madwheeler is not only a platonic ship. There are a lot of fics of them romantically and the comments are full of milevens. There is even one really famous in the byler tag even if most of them thinks Mike is gay.
Second, Robin is CONFIRMED a lesbian. Will is CONFIRMED gay. They are the only characters with confirmed sexuality. So yeah, people are going to complain if you put them in a straight ship and it does happen, there are people around here that still ships Will with El. However the other characters are not confirmed anything. Date a girl doesn't mean you are straight. You can be bi, you can be gay. I'm a lesbian who has dated boys more than once until I really found myself.
Milevens shouldn't be mad at bylers because they think Mike is gay and search for evidences for it, they should be mad at the writers for even having evidence to begin with. It was a writing choice to separate Mike from El three seasons while bonding Mike with Will and make them having a lot of heart to hearts. It was a writing choice to write Will in love with Mike. It was a writing choice to keep showing Will pinning for Mike so the audience would associate mileven with suffering. It was the writers choice to just joke around with any other ship in the fandom except for byler and keep using byler for merchandizing. If anything, be mad at them.
Bylers are just having fun with their own interpretation of the show. If you choose to believe everything that's happening on screen that's fine, but you have no right to be mad at someone or a group who doesn't. If you actually feel mad and irritated, you should take a step back. They are fictional characters. You don't write them, the writers do. By the end of the day, only them know were they are going with it so you don't have to act entitled as if you are the only one right. Bylers should not do that either.
As for the point they made about woman that don't need a men are aways HC as not straight, don't know where the hell they got this. Go read about feminism and you are going to see that there is no correlation between being independent and sexuality.
Again, there IS a double standard with queer ships and straight ships. That do exists and it's not because it isn't you bobble and you are not seeing it that it isn't a thing. We as queers have been experiencing it for a loooong time. Oh and... yes there are people who believes that Elmax is going to be canon and there are a lot of analysis supporting it.
👍
#mileven#mike wheeler#eleven hopper#el hopper byers#eleven#mike and el#max mayfield#madwheeler#elmax#byler#byler tumblr
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I agree that Mike still hasn't had a realization moment, the moment he realizes will be the moment when the audience realizes at the same time imho, and tbh Mike's situation seems to be a parallel to Nancy's situation in the love triangle. Ofc the difference here is that Mike and Will have a mlm storyline, but the love triangle positioning is the same. Nancy thought he liked Steve and while she has some sort of an attraction towards him, she came to realize in S2 that she liked Jonathan instead. They are conditioned to be more compatible in terms of being in a relationship. And most 'Mike already knows he is gay/bi' readings stem from the S3 finale scene, but that moment seemed to be more about Mike being stunned and it inserting a *doubt* to the scene like you said, it's not about him realizing his sexuality or his feelings for Will. I feel like the way the writers are approaching this situation is making Mike and El's romance as a past thing (like Steve and Nancy's thing) and them portraying Mike and Will as a likelier and more compatible option (like Jonathan and Nancy). It seems like they're gonna give Mike a realization moment after El breaks up with him, and he'll have a moment similar to Nancy's in S2. And my controversial opinion here is that I think Mike will be easier to accept his sexuality and will be the one to act on his feelings easier, and that the writers won't portray him as secretly gay since I seriously do not think they're planning on completely discarding Mike and El's romantic relationship, but they're rather planning to make them incompitable and a past romance.
THISSSS 10000% agree. I don't think the "big bad" of Mike's story is internalized homophobia, I think it's change. I used to be a hard-core gay Mike truther, but now that just doesn't make sense to me anymore. Mike and El did love each other, but they just don't make a compatible couple. Their relationship problems aren't caused by Mike's awareness that he isn't in love with her, it's that they're just different people with different interests who want different things out of a relationship.
Same with S2 Nancy and Steve. Steve didn't realize that he was unintentionally hurting Nancy by trying to pretend they were normal or saying they shouldn't try and speak out about what the lab did to Barb. And Nancy thought she was in love with Steve, until she started hanging out Jonathan, who actually listened to her concerns, was able to understand how she felt, and aided her in getting the justice Barb deserved. I definitely think Byler is going to be a lot more like that.
I can totally see where people got the idea Mike's self-aware. But the more I'm looking at the scene, the more I think it's actually pointed a lot more toward showing how he's stuck in denial out of fear of things being different from what he's used to. "I've been stuck in one place" "If I'm being really honest, that's what scares me. I don't want thing to change" "That's why I came in here, to try and maybe stop that change" "Turn back the clock, make things go back to how they were" Him not being saying ily to El or kissing her back was a sign of him starting to doubt his feelings. Hopper's letter was honing in on the fact that he doesn't like the change he's feeling. He wants things to be normal. He's scared of what could happen to himself and his relationships if he accepts change.
I'm glad I'm finally finding some like-minded people out of this.
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i was reading your bi mike analysis and i have one question (not related to if he is or not lol i don't think it's that important) you mention you believe mike still thinks he likes el romantically dueing the monologue, and my question is, seeing as the popular interpretation of the s3 ending is mike realizing he likes will the way he thought he liked el, what is YOUR interpretation of the scene ? (i'm genuinely asking ♡ i think it's very cool we all have different interpretations of different scenes)
Hello!! 💜
First of all thank you for taking the time to read my analysis, I appreciate it a lot!! 😊
Here's a video with the scenes I'm talking about for reference!
At the moment my personal interpretation of the s3 finale is that Mike is terribly scared of losing the people he loves and here he's starting to realize how heartbroken he's feeling because both El and Will are moving and leaving him behind and he's terrified of their dynamic changing and of losing them both...
I think for the kiss and the I love you he's simply shocked
by the realization that El did hear what he said in the cabin and he's experiencing a sort of freezing response to that knowledge... because he wasn't anticipating her saying something like that to him!
I also think they were super awkward with each other because they didn't know where they stood in their relationship, they probably had not talked about it because they just... Don't talk about stuff often... I mean, they are 14 so I kinda get it because they are just kids playing at relationships and it is super awkward and overwhelming approaching these conversations when you're this young!
But still, even if they are awkward 14 yo it seems to me that in that scene Mike is feeling flustered because he does like her and wants to be cool in her eyes... but we can already see their relationships problems in s4 from that scene alone because Mike is acting like he is mentally telling himself he's an idiot after this thing he says to her and this particular exchange between them
So we can already see how he feels deeply insecure in this relationship because he thinks that to look cool to El and to impress her he has to be more cool than he is, he has to change his character and become super funny and dress better etc etc, he does want to impress her because he does like her and he feels inferior to her, he puts her on a pedestal...
The reason he pretends he doesn't remember what he said was because he didn't want to tell her anymore... because of what Mike told us in s4 himself, he was feeling scared that if he was open with his feelings this would have just made it more difficult for him and more painful when she eventually would look at him and look at who he is and realize he is just a nerd and he's nothing special and she shouldn't like him... Because in his mind it doesn't make sense that El really likes him or even that she loves him... That is why he's shocked!
...
In this scene I think the narrative was focusing on Mike and Will because it was starting out the byler plot line officially and showing us that Mike does feel differently towards Will, he feels more deeply for him.. and he will miss him more than how you miss someone that is only a friend...
...
This is not a realisation that he's gay or queer to me, this is utter heartbreak... It's like he wants to cry here but he's feeling so empty and numb that he can't even do that.
He's just wishing he could to back so that he doesn't lose him from his life...
this whole scene focusing on Mike and then Will in the car and then Mike again, is showing us Mike's deepest fear of things changing and him losing the people he loves... and how losing Will in particular is breaking him down... (because deep down he loves him)
I think this was showing us that Mike is beginning to feel different towards Will and he's afraid of things changing between them and in general...
That's why in s4 he tries to hard to go back to being best friends and why he wants to fix his relationship with El even if he knows it's not how it was before that summer and he started to realize he is changing and feeling weird towards Will...
He wants to stick to the status quo with Will as his best friend and El as his girlfriend...
but the dynamic is changing he is slowly realizing him and El don't work well in s4 and he wasn't sure of wanting to tell El the I love you, he was avoiding it because of the reason he told us... and that is the truth, but that's not the WHOLE truth deep down... even if him as a character right now is confused about what he feels and believes he is in love with her
The whole truth is that he wasn't sure anymore before Will made his speech in the van and made him believe El knows him like that and loves him like he wants her to love him, like she sees him as the heart of the group too and needs him like he feels he needs her... (A LIE BECAUSE THOSE ARE WILLS'S FEELINGS)
So he wasn't sure before that, he was confused and he was thinking about it in his mind and trying to just find the courage to tell her the ily but like he said:
"I just don't believe it."
He didn't believe it was safe to tell El and be vulnerable with her... Who made him believe it was? Will using his own feelings!
Also the rule for Mike in his head is that he shouldn't lie about things this much important... So if he doesn't feel 100% secure about a thing he WILL avoid it... Until he does feel secure
He also at the same time is feeling super weird and awkward with Will in s4 because he already has feelings for him and attraction to him but he doesn't realize it yet consciously why he feels like this... He is acting jealous and feeling weird things that make him look at Will when he's not looking and then panic in the desert lmao
Hope this is clear!! It's a mix of very deep and complicated feelings Mike has for both Will and El...
with El he does like her and he did have infatuation for her but the relationship just doesn't work because of his insecurities and because they are incompatible
with Will he is slowly beginning to realize he does have feelings for him but he's pushing back because he is terrified of change and it's super hard admitting to yourself that you do see your best friend in a different way and you like him in a non straight way especially in the 80s
But all of this is a tangled mess in Mike's head for now, he's not 100% aware of why he does what he does... He's thinking about it and learning new things about himself this season and he's 14 so it's super normal that he doesn't know how he feels for sure yet
Feelings are a mess and when you're bi I think it's even more difficult because he probably thinks well I do like women so I can't like Will like that because I'm not gay...
So yeah, that's it for me!!
Babygirl is confused 😂😂😂
Thank you so much for reading all of this, as always this is my interpretation of the show if you think differently that's ok!! 💞
#byler#will byers#mike wheeler#el hopper byers#stranger things#bi mike wheeler#ask#Bi Mike#bike wheeler
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I feel like Bylers twist Mike’s affectionate best friend behavior for will and say, “well he has to have romantic feelings for him then,” but most of the time the things you are describing are literal normal best friend behavior. Some people are super affectionate with their best friends, but that doesn’t mean Mike is gay or bi just because he comforts Will, stays by his side, and looks at him? Is there anything a friend can do for a close friend that Bylers wouldn’t try to twist and make it gay? This is why many straight guys are scared to show affection for their male friends…
aw anon, you’re so right! the way mike behaves towards will is completely and strictly platonic with no romantic undertones whatsoever!
like this for example, what classic best friend behavior:
it’s not like mike looks at will’s lips who does the same back and we know will’s lip glance is definitely 100% romantic because he’s confirmed to have feelings for mike-
and then there’s this classic best friend behavior:
and this:
and also this! 😊:
nope, you’re right! it’s totally platonic best friend behavior to stare at someone’s lips so much it looks like you’re about to kiss them ☺️
no but on a more serious note - it’s not like we’re pairing two guys together just to “make them gay” or anything - if that was the case we would do the same for lucas and mike, dustin and mike, lucas and will or dustin and will but we don’t.
mike and will have chemistry. chemistry that crosses the line of simply platonic and seeps into the romantic territory. i’m sure a lot of people who see it the same way as you, anon, would say otherwise if will was a girl or mike was a girl.
also “some people are super affectionate with their best friends” okay, so is this supposed to also cancel out the amount of affection they would show towards their significant other? because, it is quite suspicious for mike to show this amount of affection towards his supposed “platonic bestie” and not show it towards his own freakin gf. i can’t even recall a single time he’s stared at el’s lips. and even if he has, it’s not as much as he’s stared at will’s lips.
it’s totally okay for men to be affectionate with each other while still being platonic. but, this isn’t the case with mike and will. there is literally a direct contrast to the way mike behaves with dustin and to the way he behaves with will. then there’s the fact that he struggles so much to juggle his relationship with will while dating el.
i would like to direct you to this parallel:
posted by @lol101elated
you can see the obvious contrast between not only the lighting/tone/mood of the scenes, you can also see the differences in mike’s reaction. when el said she “dumped (his) ass”, he looked annoyed and almost disgusted. however, when will said “i guess i did. i really did”, mike looked genuinely hurt. he had a stronger reaction to his fight with will than with his and his gf’s breakup. his fight with will read more like a breakup than his and el’s actual breakup. (not to mention that after el broke up with him, all he did was sit around, eat chips and complain while after his fight with will, he biked across town in the pouring rain to apologize to will).
this isn’t something we are “twisting”. this is intentionally being done by the writers and directors of the show. this is the story they are crafting. if i was you, i’d prepare myself for season 5 because we will be seeing a lot more byler whether you like it or not.
here is a great post i found by @rainymunson that basically sums up how i feel:
thank you for coming to my ted talk.
#byler#byler tumblr#is it weird i have way too much fun answering these oh my gosh#byler nation#byler is endgame#byler is real#will byers#mike wheeler#anti m*leven#anti milkvan#byler is requited#milkvan#midleven#anon ask#long post#mike wheeler is gay#st 4#byler evidence#mike x will#byler analysis#anti mileven
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