#Exandrian gods
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You know, I do have to wonder if the reason the gods of Exandria are panicking so much about the release of Predathos isn't solely the threat of being eaten, but also that they can't seal it again.
Like, what you can achieve once can be done again. And you've had thousands of years to look back and consider how to do it better, how you could have maybe prevented Vordo and Ethedok from being eaten by sealing sooner. What happened to their two siblings, the struggle to survive where they landed, has to weigh in the gods' minds at times.
And yet, the gods don't seem to be doing any prep work to stuff Predathos back into Ruidus (or a new prison), and instead are going all in on the fight to stop the seals from releasing in the first place.
Sure, preparation for resealing should the worst happen could be happening in the background where we can't see it. But it doesn't particularly feel that way. Everything we've seen is "All hands on deck so that this thing never gets out, period" with seemingly no back up if that directive is failed.
So I would posit that the gods can't seal Predathos again, because they got rid of the titans.
We know that the titans helped the gods seal Predathos away. We know that Predathos resists the divine power of the gods. We know that an enormous hunk of Exandria was turned into the prison-turned-moon Ruidus.
So it really makes sense to me if the titans were instrumental to the sealing process.
As best I can tell, elemental power is separate from divine power in the cosmos of Exandria. Which means that the titans did not face penalties as the gods did in using their powers against Predathos. So if/when they needed to pin it in place for whatever sealing rituals/ceremonies, the titans would be best suited to it with gods being bait to draw Predathos in.
Next is carving up Exandria. Who could better do that than titans of earth? The earth of Exandria is their element, their birthplace, and their home. If anyone could easily rip up a continent (as the theory of Ruidus's origin on Exandria is), it would be the titans of earth.
I will also point out that glass, like what we've been recently led to believe is what Predathos's form is in its sealed state, is a result of fire and earth, melting sand into a cohesive whole. So the titans might have helped with that part too.
What we know the gods did in the sealing of Predathos seems to be mostly outer bindings. Divine seals on the layers of glass to keep people from cracking it open, the Divine Gate-like cage around Ruidus itself.
So it seems to me that there's a good chance the titans contributed a lot to the sealing of Predathos.
And now they're all gone. The gods killed them
...And maybe sealed a few in other Planes? It's a bit unclear, but Vox Machina did encounter what was called a Dust Titan in Pandmonium in The Search For Bob, and Errevon the Rimelord is thought to be some sort of Ice Titan. Still, the killing and sealing isn't going to do the gods any favors in getting help again. Especially since such surviving titans don't really have a stake in Exandria anymore and probably aren't on Predathos's menu (but may be on it's revenge list).
The closest things the gods have these days to allied titans are Ashton and Fearne, who both only hold tiny fragments of a full titan's power. Even if those fragments are from two of the most powerful titans to walk Exandria.
So yeah, the gods sort of accidentally fucked themselves over in being able to reseal Predathos by wiping out the titans, I think.
#I'm not saying the gods were necessarily wrong in protecting mortals from the titans as they did#but there's always unforeseen consequences to our actions#and I think this is an interesting one that might exist#mq blathers#critical role#cr meta#cr speculation#exandrian gods#primordial titans#predathos#ruidus
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OH DAMN ITS AABRIA WITH THE STEEL CHAIR (calling the gods prideful) PULLING A LAERRYN (thinking the gods are bitches) (did I do this right @quiddie)
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CR3: EPISODE 60 SPOILERS
(as I'm typing this out I'm still in the middle of watching the episode so this is just a train of thought mental rant)
I love a good philosophical debate as much as the next guy, but there's something about the pro-god vs anti-god debates in the current campaign (and all the other campaigns too tbh) that hits different.
in our world, gods/god is more of a blind faith or theory but in exandria the pantheon is real. they exist. it's not up for debate that they are there and they have power and influence. some of them are good. most of them are bad. their followers are capable of good, and bad.
and that's true for the real world as well. as someone with a lot of religious trauma, i am always going to be on the side of caution when it comes to anybody exerting religious power over others, BUT -- especially for orym -- hearing someone who hasn't seen what ludinus has done and is willing to do to destroy the gods basically imply that he's just lost his way irritates me. in a good way.
it's never gonna be a "im right, you're wrong," clear cut answer, but like orym has said before, as noble as we can pretend ludinus' goals are, he has killed innocents, destroyed countless lives that were not involved in his beef with the gods. his ambition and cruelty and callousness is driven by his hatred of the gods, and that's just as bad as the pantheon preying on followers and non-believers alike.
ludinus cannot free predathos and he cannot kill the gods, if only because i do not trust the kind of man who is capable of all of those atrocities and all that darkness to hold all the fucking power in the world. who could go against the man who destroyed the gods? it's a recipe for disaster.
#critical role#cr3#bells hells#critical role campaign 3#orym of the air ashari#ludinus da'leth#predathos#exandrian lore#exandrian gods#critical role 3#cr3 ep60#cr3 e60#cr spoilers#team issylra
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You know, I take it back. I do think I am more biased against Exandrian gods, I’ve felt they were more like Greek gods but now I am sure they are more like the Greek gods. Flawed, capricious, and at most time’s fascinating.
But also I find that I have much less leeway for them than most CR fans.
They play less games on Exandrians than Greek gods and more free will, which is great of them.
But also, if there’s like a threat ongoing to their existence, I would think they would be more upfront about it and more helpful in stopping the Red End (a really cool moniker for Predathos— I remembered a post I can’t remember if its twitter or here, where they said the gods must have been testing out their press release copy before going down to warn their followers a full whole week after Ludinus rattled the Ruidus cage).
Then they wouldn’t be this desperate!
Also, some vague evil and telling the people they’d lose powers without really specifying.
Real good messaging there Dawnfather and Changebringer.
I hope the other gods are better than you two messaging their followers.
I would also love to see how the Betrayer gods are ringing that bell for their followers or those who unwittingly join with them.
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Just thought of another sticking point about the Exandrian gods, Aasimar
Aasimar usually have human parents but are born aasimar thanks to being touched or blessed by an angel of the gods or the gods themselves
Eradicating the gods kinda sounds like it would lead to no continuation or at least a decline in the already rare aasimars. And who’s to say that once Predathos is done eating the gods and their celestial agents that it won’t turn around and start eating the much smaller pieces of divinity?
Who���s to say Da’leth - who we know doesn’t really have a “That’s too far” cap - won’t hunt aasimar down either. He has no qualms about killing holy/faithful people
Just some thoughts…
#not to add to the discourse or anything#i just had some thoughts#wanted to share#aasimar#critical role#cr spoilers#critical role spoilers#fuck ludinus#ludinus da'leth#ruby vanguard#exandrian lore#Exandrian gods#exandrian pantheon#dnd gods#predathos
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between the Assembly taking over Aeor and the Tishtan site and his behavior towards the Grim Verity and the fact that I bet they probably did the same to Pride's Call, I have to wonder if there's just a rag-tag group of furious historians, archaeologists, and anthropologists who are amassing to murder Ludinus Da'leth over that alone
#you know how essek set off a war basically because his funding wasn't approved?#yeah.#god i don't have the skill for it bc hard sciences but would love to read the Exandrian Anthropological Journal of Get His Ass#critical role
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the matron of ravens and sarenrae, observing their blorbos: Baby. Bestest child. I want you to have everything.
sarenrae: actually pike should get another blazing pillar of light
raven queen: vax'ildan will appreciate these visions
#they are well-meaning concepts of the known universe#pike trickfoot#vax'ildan#sarenrae#the raven queen#exandrian pantheon#the legend of vox machina#tlovm spoilers#critical role#vox machina#I bet the raven queen thought she was being a real good transparent god by laying out the fate thing#hey do you think she got the same kind of help from a god of fate that came before her? or was she completely alone to figure it out?#if the original god of fate was destroyed before mortal history who was in charge of fate before she took over?
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Zephrah actively postpones ruidusborn births. It is believed that the actual number of ruidusborn in exandrian history is much larger than has been officially recorded because the stigma of it was so intense that people lied about it. Alyxian, one of the few recorded ruidusborn heroes of the calamity who received direct blessings from three different prime deities (our very own Changebringer, the Archheart, and the Moonweaver) , has been all but forgotten (read: likely erased) by history.
The Archive of knowledge that revealed the truth of Predathos and Ruidus was never some forgotten thing—it was intentionally hidden by the elites in Vasselheim. And we have no idea how long they have been operating with that knowledge. We have no idea what they have been doing with that knowledge, what silent wars have been waging for years or decades or centuries. But we saw what they were willing to do, in Hearthdell. We saw the violence and suppression they were willing to commit. We saw the pettiness of the exandrian pantheon in the Dawnfather’s response to Deanna’s: “Are you worth saving?”. In the Changebringer’s manipulative change of course in her pleas to FCG. In the Wildmother’s rejection of Opal. In the knowledge we have that Imogen spent so much of her miserable time in Gelvaan begging the gods to aid her to no avail—just for Kord to reach out only to demand that she not let them down.
Liliana’s point that Vasselheim and the other faithful elite of the world will hunt ruidusborn down to negate even the potential of this happening again isn’t new, it isn’t something this solstice and the machinations surrounding it caused, and it isn’t some unsubstantiated, fearful claim—it has been happening.
The vanguard—and Liliana—are unequivocally wrong in their means. But can you really fault them in their desire? Can you really fault the conclusions they have drawn from the experiences they have lived? If you spend your entire life being rejected by the people and the pantheon of your world for means you could not possibly control, would you not seek out someone and somewhere that would accept you? And if you found it, if some being that has been connected with you your whole life welcomed you home and wrapped you in an embrace that felt like your mother’s and says that it is starving; well, aren’t you, too?
There is likely a holy war brewing. At the end of it all, is it truly the sole fault of the people and not the organizations and society that expelled them?
#critical role#liliana temult#cr spoilers#bells hells#critical role meta#i understand that tumblr isn’t the place for god or vanguard nuance but I wanted to extend my thoughts here For Posterity#it just baffles me that some people still think Ludinus doesn’t very clearly have motivations of his own#and that the vanguard and liliana and very likely even the weave mind are all pawns in a greater scheme#which just kind of renders all the attempts to claim that empathizing with the vanguard means agreeing with Ludinus completely moot#and also just. doesn’t allow room for far more interesting questions about exandrian society and faith#and to be more clear. CLEARLY there are bad people in the vangaurd i am not saying they are good please be normal#in general i think people get really caught up in certain characters’ perspectives and not the wider ones we as the audience have#which. to me. is a loss. these are interesting and extremely relevant and poignant questions to ask
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Ludinus Da'leth is not right about killing the gods. Ludinus Da'leth is the equivalent of a hyperrational atheist science bro™ who thinks religion is exclusively for the weak-minded and the foolish because he's never taken a humanities course and equates "mass media Christianity" with all world religion.
#cr discourse#like good fucking lord.#I'm EXHAUSTED.#do not clown on this post I'm tired and will block you on sight.#frankly the exandrian gods are also like. MORE than fine.#they're not all powerful and they are not unflawed but like. overall. they're fine lmfao#and yes I AM including the calamity in that. good god.#like we all watched calamity right? we all witnessed that?
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I get that there's needs to be nuance with Vasselheim being an oppressive force in Exandria. It's pretty clearly meant to be a message of how religious structures stray beyond their original intent and grasp for power in a desperate need to spread a certain doctrine.
The thing is, I can already tell that there are going to be people who use what's happening in C3 as ammunition for an anti-pantheon interpretation. But I desperately want to grab those people and shake them telling them that "it's not the fault of the fucking gods."
Do you genuinely believe that the Wildmother, or the Everlight, or the Platinum Dragon are the type to tell religious leaders to go out and kill/silence/oppress anyone who disagrees with Vasselheim? Because based on what we know (based on previous appearances and that these gods are canonically good/neutral aligned) they would be against it!
But, of course, the gods can never win in this debate. Because if they don't do anything - they are apathetic or hubristic and deserve to be taken down a few notches for not caring about their creations. But if they do step in and do something - they are interfering with or restricting free will and deserve to be taken down a few notches for being too controlling.
Like, obviously religious trauma is a very real and valid experience for many people both in our world and Exandria, but once more, this is because of the people in power within the religion, not the deities themselves.
#i mean seriously#just admit that nothing the gods say or do will make you like them#nothing they have done or will do can make you trust them#critical role#critical role spoilers#bells hells#cr3#cr meta#cr discourse#prime deities#betrayer gods#exandrian lore
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honestly, i love that the gods are being super intense about everything going on. the idea that they would just go down without a fight is Wild so yeah, they're gonna be pushy about this shit.
#critical role#cr spoilers#this remains a exandrian pantheon stan blog#pelor is my Boy#now what i'd Really enjoy seeing is how followers of the betrayer gods are being approached about this#bc like. yeah they're evil but also i can't imagine they're down for being eaten so
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what makes the constant conflict between laud and orym so interesting (well one of many things lbr) is that at the end of the day they do care for each other but they have completely incompatible ways of showing affection towards each other. they care but holy crap they will do the most insane shit ever instead of just outright saying they do. tal’dorei people be normal challenge impossible
#🍃#critical role#critrole#laudna#orym of the air ashari#oh god could you imagine if people shipped them#orym is so hysterically not her type even if he liked women it’d be unbearably forced#an athletic guy hits on her and she runs away screaming her head off#orym’s form of dread is him but straight and 6’6 and also he has a jersey accent. exandrian k2
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For all this Moon lore we're getting on Ruidus I do feel like the Imperium is planning on a very Early Christianity Movement route of things
"We want to live on Exandria, sure people will be welcoming but some probably won't, better to just go down there guns a'blazing going 'My god can beat up your gods in a fight' and settle in that way"
#critical role#cr3#cr3 spoilers#critical role spoilers#cr3e85#ruidus#exandria#bell's hells#I mean the gods are part of the power structure yes but different faith systems exist anyway like the Ashari and the Eidolons#Ruidian faith could (mostly) have been accepted...minus the whole mental subjugation stuff#“Predathos challenges your Prime Deities to a Steel Cage match for the Exandrian World Championship!”#It still acts on oversight though how the Imperium expect to wake the God Eater when they're living on its prison's outer shell#plus the whole matter that Ludinus might be wrong and it'll wanna eat them too#in other news Otohan still got LEAPS I mean seriously 90 feet?#BH will fight Ludinus* with Fearne captive and Ashton lava-damaged but one look at Otohan and it's 'we gotta run' that's trauma for ya#*asterisk simulacrum Ludinus not actual Ludinus but they didn't know that
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I think the thing that I wish the most was spoken about with Orym, and that everyone having discourse about the gods of Exandria needs to remember, is that questioning the gods and their place in this world does not make you Ludinis Daleth.
If you don't live in a world where you can question what functions the gods are serving, why they're here, then that's a problem.
I also think that a lot of what is missed, and a lot of what I am particularly curious about is how the people of Exandria are taught about the gods.
It seems from a viewers point of view that they function much like a Greek pantheon, in that they are all a little more human than any god from a monotheistic religion. The Wild mother is kind and caring and gentle, the raven queen is aloof and shoulders grief like she carries the world with a heavy sense of responsibility and that creates distance but not uncaringness, the Dawnfather is kind of a dick in his rigidity and his forcefulness and righteousness. They all feel a little human in this way and more godly in how big all those emotions feel, how instrinsic they are. Not once have I seen these gods and though they are ominscient and omnipresent and omnibenevolent. They have complexity to them but are beholden to who they are a little by their domains, their personalities are the force of their domains. They put themselves behind a wall and can only give assistance to those few who have chosen to give back to them as the divine gate not only restrains them but the powers they have in the world. They must have a way to channel their powers, through something.
However, if you are on Exandria, if you are an average citizen, are you taught that the gods are all powerful? That they control your world? Are you taught that the prime deities are Omnibenevolent, and therefore no bad should occur? Are you fully taught that in order for them to have power in this world we must give it to them? Or are you taught perhaps, that the gods exist as an extent form of life, that they choose their champions by just granting them powers?
From what they are taught how easy is it for them to believe that they have been abandoned? That the gods have the power to help them and refuse? That whatever the champions do is with the gods endorsement? If the gods can exercise their power on this world through their champions then surely everything done under their name is emblematic of the gods themselves?
Because then you can start to accept how many people distrust and dislike the gods if they are not taught about them in a way that makes sense in the world.
Then we as the viewers also have to give the same grace we would give to an NPC when they question the gods and their place in the world because they also don't have the same information and perspective we do. The players might and the way they think about the gods is for them to know but they are actors. So they will play the knowledge of the characters, and the characters self admittedly know shit about the gods and their place and what they do and have learnt bits and pieces about the calamity and the divine gate but on a fundamental functional level, the level at which they are questioning the gods place and the way they work, is an answer they do not have. It's why it keeps being brought up.
#critical role#critical role spoilers#campaign 3#cr3#gods discourse#exandrian pantheon#someone please talk to ne about this#because there is this assumption that keeps happening about any questioning of the gods meaning youre aligning with ludinis#or that the people of this world know how their gods function#we have seen time and time again that everyone from the scholars in the cerberus assembly#to all the player characters#to the npc farmer#that none of them have a goddamn clue#and then we get upset when they ask how it works#and if it should work that way
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With Predathos being trapped in Ruidus as a prison, and Tharizdun having been banished to the Far Realm after the Calamity and wants to annihilate everything that's ever been created, I'm morbidly fascinated with the idea of these beings facing one another
#critical role#campaign 3#predathos#tharizdun#exandrian pantheon#god eater vs a deity of destruction#bells hells#granted this could end up with everything imploding but fuck that would be fascinating#betrayer gods#cr
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