#these are! The two antagonists! They both have names now which is great because when I wrote this piece they didn't
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So, I’ve been thinking a lot about spideytorch lately (as I am one to do) and a question popped into my head:
What is the most important spideytorch comic panel?
There’s a ton of great options in my opinion, but I think there also is an answer (at least for me) so now I am going to subject all of you to my thought process. Get ready for a way to long post breaking this down.
The most obvious starting point has to be this classic
Johnny Storm is going full house husband for Peter Parker, I mean c’mon! add in the fact that he’s in his undies and the way that he’s leaning over peter… yeah this is a classic. This might be the most famous spideytorch panel out there, but I don’t think it’s the most important one.
Another classic (but more antagonistic?) one takes place, of course, at the usual place.
To me this is peak identity shenanigans and the stuff that fanfics are made of. The betrayal, the heartbreak, the complications that go into the conflicting way these two view identity, oh boy I could talk about that shit for hours, but as an individual moment, it doesn’t really crack most important for me, it needs a bit more affection (they’re very bad at affection sometimes).
Another panel that came to mind very quickly for me is this set.
Johnny literally only had to say his name and Peter knew exactly what he meant and what he needed. This is top tier levels of communication, both between them and from the creators to us. I think this is another one that I could talk about for hours. That being said, it doesn’t feel important enough to me.
A friend in the spideytorch discord server posed this panel as the most important spideytorch moment in the comics.
I’m just gonna put their quote in cause it’s great. “I think this is one of my favorite panels cause Johnny was just speaking generally and Peter was like ‘oh my god! Actual wise words form johnny’ but also, I love that this was a more important moment for Peter than Johnny.” I must say, this entry is extremely important to spideytorch and gave my choice a run for its money. I don’t have a huge reason for not making this one the most important, other than personal taste. For their relationship, this is a key moment and sets them on the path to actually being friends (at least on Peter’s end), but idk it just wasn’t doing it for me.
Another panel I was reminded of thanks to this submission was this moment.
It’s not quite as impactful as the past one by a long shot but I do think it’s important. After being rivals for so long, to see Johnny give a genuine heartfelt compliment to Peter is fantastic (haha). This feels like the other half of the previous set of panels. There we had Johnny encouraging a stranger and here he’s encouraging his friend.
Some other friends in the discord server suggested the moment that Johnny invites Peter over to watch his sex tape (yes this is canon).
(Not pictured, Peter swinging away and saying he needs to take a cold shower). Now I’m not saying that the most important spideytorch moment needs to be serious, but I think this moment might be too unserious to claim that title. This moment was huge for the fanbase because holy shit did, he actually say that, but for their relationship, I just don’t think it was as important as it was to us.
Now I do want to knock out a few honorable mentions that I would hate to miss.
First, this look given to Spidey by Johnny, I mean yeah, he’s in love.
And to balance the lovesick flirty scales I must expose Peter as well.
Next, this heartbreaking moment that basically admits to the audience that Peter’s world becomes chaos when he loses Johnny. That shit hits.
Of course, the moment that gave us the ship name.
A panel that lives in my head rent-free because honestly marvel what were you attempting to convey here other than the fact that Peter really wants to have hate sex with Johnny Storm?
To take us outside of our duo, this quote from Ben Grimm (EDIT: it’s was Peter’s clone Ben Reilly, which honestly only adds more drama), because honestly same.
And of course, I have to include the panel which showed us the first time (on page) that Peter told Johnny he loved him AND gave us canon proof that these two have “date night,” many a fic writer was fed well.
And how could we forget! THE USUAL PLACE! Literally any panel mentioning this is top tier because its so good, like the core of the fandom honestly.
Lastly, before moving on to my own more serious contenders I have to share this parallel that @sciderman shared because I love it.
Now to my serious contenders for the title of most important spideytorch panel (please remember this is all my opinion and I mean no shade). This will be a top 5, but just know some of these rankings are pretty flexible (even flexible with some panels from the beginning), and this question should not be taken as seriously as I am taking it, I am fully aware of that.
Number 5!
So, I know that I discounted the sex tape scene earlier because I didn’t think it was serious enough and it didn’t do enough for their actual relationship, but I had to include this one I’m sorry. A lot of this is personal taste but the implications here are *chefs kiss* The first time I saw this panel was actually on Pinterest with the caption “wait a second, did spider-man and the human torch have sex?” which says it all for me.
Beyond that, this moment also shows how they reach out to each other when they have problems. Strange children show up in Peter’s life and the first person he calls about it is Johnny. Again, this is not the most serious, but I love it. This moment shows the banter of their relationship, how they care about and rely on each other, and also potentially reveals that they’ve had sex. There’s a lot to take in.
Number 4!
I will be honest with you all, this moment is here almost entirely because Ben’s quote lives in my head rent-free. Everyone around them sees how they feel about each other besides them. When they were rivals others could tell they actually liked each other and when they became friends others could tell that it was deeper than that. I think I especially love this panel because it conforms that we’re not crazy for thinking there’s something there but also because Ben specifically cites the way Johnny looks at peter. That is very specific and says a lot. I can’t imagine Ben would say this if the looks Johnny gave Peter were purely platonic, and just ahhhh, there’s so much said here just in one line from Ben. There was of course the Ben moment earlier, which I also love, but something about this one, the more specific phrasing of it I think just shoots it up my rankings a lot.
Number 3!
If you’ve been following me for a while I don’t think this is a surprise at all, I have already done a very in depth post about this panel so I’ll keep my thoughts brief. Red Skull knows that hurting Johnny will hurt Peter, Peter’s Spidey senses go off FOR JOHNNY, and we are given so much angst potential, I love it.
Number 2!
This one is probably a more popular choice than my number one, and I totally get it. The excitement and joy bursting out of Peter when he finally realizes that Johnny is here, he’s real, and he’s alive really gets me. Plus, the added context to the uniform comment being that Johnny literally left Peter his family and his spot on the team in his will. The amount of pure love in this moment and its larger context is abundant, platonic or romantic, it’s there. I feel like everything I could say about this panel has probably been said before, but it is definitely worthy of being the most important spideytorch moment, even if I have one that beats it for me.
Number 1!
For those of you who don’t know, this panel comes from Peter visiting Gwen’s grave and talking to her. That fact alone breaks me in half but then the things he says to her shatter me. Every spider-man fan knows how much Gwen’s death broke Peter, it destroyed him to lose her. Just the fact that Peter admits Johnny brings part of him back is amazing (haha) because that is a hug feat. But then he shatters me even more with his final sentences. After Gwen’s death, we often get a peter who spends too much time as Spidey in order to avoid having to cope with Gwen’s death as Peter, but also as a way to cope with the loss (he’s a complicate man). Spideypool also gets a lot from that arc because of Wade’s reaction to Spider-Man not holding back as much and becoming less of a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, and that’s true. The fact that Peter feels like he’s becoming who Spidey is supposed to be again when he’s around johnny is huge! But then! He corrects himself. He’s not Spidey again, he’s Peter. The real person, the man behind the mask, comes back. And then you get the final correction. He’s not just peter again, he’s *Gwen’s* peter again. He is the him that existed with Gwen when he’s with Johnny. That speaks volumes and breaks whatever parts of me are left. How am I expected to read this and not think that Johnny and Peter are soulmates?
Now, I will acknowledge that this is much more of a peter moment than a joint spideytorch moment, much like the moment suggested by discord friend earlier. If that disqualifies it for you as the most important spideytorch panel, I get it. However, for me that doesn’t matter mainly for one key reason. So many classic spideytorch moments show a lot of Johnny having feelings for Peter or making a move on Peter. There have been a lot of times when I’m trying to get a friend into spideytorch, and I feel like I have to clarify that its not as one sided as it seems. Johnny is much more out there with who he is and doesn’t hide his feelings very well (except maybe from himself). So, when we get any spideytorch moment that hones in on peter’s feelings and love for Johnny, that feels so huge to me. This moment alone proves that it isn’t one sided, Peter has deep feelings for Johnny, even if he’s not sure what they are yet, he knows that what they have is special, he wouldn’t be telling Gwen about it otherwise. While it may not be as famous of a spideytorch moment, its an important one, and for me it’s probably the most important one.
Anyway, this has been a way too long post about this topic but if you made it to the end thank you so much! I would love to hear other people’s thoughts on this topic so feel free to share those. Also, just a reminder that these are my opinions, and I am not in charge at all so don’t take it too seriously (unless you want to).
If you’re interested in hearing me, go more in depth on any of these panels (or any other spideytorch panels) shoot me an ask because I could honestly talk in depth for a while about most of these panels and I would love to do so. Thank you again for reading this way to long post and good night spideytorch nation.
#spideytorch#alt descriptions coming soon!#peter parker#johnny storm#peter x johnny#peter parker x johnny storm#mine :)#fantastic four#spider-man#marvel#comics#spideytorch meta#marvel meta#enjoy my chaos
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The patient was lying on the operating table when the door slid open.
They didn’t have to be there - the room had more in it than it did a week ago, a comfortable enough chair, a plush little love seat to relax in, a desk to work at. Their wrists weren’t strapped down anymore, nothing new pumping into their veins. They were free to roam around the room and let the oncoming process take place. And yet still, they chose to lay on the table and stare at the ceiling blankly.
At least they glanced over when she entered, attention caught by the sound of her footsteps, not the door opening and closing. They had stopped trying to escape months ago. Thank fucking god for that.
“Unscheduled,” they told her. They had become more monosyllabic as the weeks had gone on. Sometimes, it was a struggle to know what they were trying to say.
This time is easy enough. “I don’t follow the schedule that strictly,” she said briskly. “I can visit whenever I want.”
Their eyebrows rose at the first comment, noting the blatant lie, but they let it pass, eyes drifting back to the ceiling again. Even their arms were spread out, wrists resting exactly where the leather straps would usually be. “Why?”
“I work here, sweetie. I thought you knew that by now.” It would be a concern if not. Some of the others had deteriorating memories at this point in the process, and she was so sick of failed tests.
A head shake. “Why here?” The second word seems to strain them. “Why me?”
Ah. At least their mind was still somewhat present. Brushing down the front of her off-white lab coat, she gave herself a moment to think. The facility had tried to keep each patient isolated, although a lot of them had figured out there were others on account of the screams. This patient was amongst them, having asked her a few months ago how many others there were. Fifty, she had told them, and they had nodded, taken her word as the truth and shut their eyes to listen, trance-like, to the screams down the hall.
The number was much, much lower than fifty now, having dropped lower still a few minutes ago. She was on the brink of failure, bankruptcy, months of agony and wasted resources for nothing. Maybe she was somewhat desperate to keep the final few functioning, progressing. Alive. More willing to spend time around them and their misery, pity, refusal to acknowledge the common good she was working towards.
She couldn’t tell them that, though. With how frail they looked, they may well die on the spot at the news, half from shock, half to spite her. “Figured you could use some company,” she said instead. “How are you feeling?“
They gave her a blank look, the kind that perfectly said, how the bloody hell do you think I’m doing? Then returned their attention to the ceiling. Silence lingered. The overhead lights hummed. Someone hurried past their room. “Tired,” they eventually murmured. “I’m tired.”
“That’s to be expected. You’ve been through a lot.” She gave them her best smile, her politicians smile, and smoothed a clump of brown hair off their forehead. It was something she had done to a lot of foreheads when hands had been strapped down, resistance impossible. Why was she doing it now? Because they were on the table, laid out as if expecting the chemicals to start flowing, the screams to start ripping their throat?
She withdrew before either of them could comprehend it, and their eyes watched her carefully for a uncharacteristically long ten seconds, before their attention drifted again. Their skin felt feverish, dry. It was not a good sign. Keep them lucid, keep them alert. “Is there anything I can get you?”
What may have once been a smile drifted across their face. “Out.”
It was a joke for both of them at this point, so she laughed, and their almost-smile nearly became a full smile, before the effort became too much to maintain. “I’ll ask the boss,” she promised, a joke for her to privately enjoy. “Anything else?”
“News,” they said vaguely.
“On what?”
“Kit.”
Always the same. Maybe that was why she liked them more than most. Their interactions were predictable, repetitive. If they did die, she might not even notice, repeating her half of the script to their unresponsive corpse. “Not much,” she said sombrely, as if she’d checked. “Rumour has it he’s got a new orange now.”
Their eyes shut, brows drawing together, mouth pressed thin. This wasn’t part of their routine. It took her a moment to recognise grief. What was the problem? What had she said? Why was news of another orange so significant?
Right. Of course. They had been an orange once, his orange, trusted sidekick and adoring supporter. This tidbit of nothing went a lot deeper than she expected, and she hesitated, unsure if she should keep digging. On one hand, she thought they had given up on their brother weeks ago, when their patience had run out, when they had accepted he wasn’t going to save them, when their magic and use to him had been stripped from their veins. It was annoying that there had still been a part of them clinging to hope, expecting something from Kit.
On the other hand, she could plainly see that part of them wither and die with this news. She gave them a moment, hands clasped behind her back, then continued. “He’s declared you dead,” she said, her voice soft, delicate. “Says he held you in his arms as you bled out.”
“Course,” they said. She was glad to hear bitterness in their voice, hoarse as it was.
“Rumour has it he’s one of the most powerful on the streets now,” she added, watching their face carefully. This was a lot more than she had planned to tell them, much more truthful than her reports usually were, but it was having some kind of effect, a reaction. Better than most other discussions she had with patients, weepy and aching affairs that left her heavy and frustrated. “He keeps targeting other turfs. He’s gained a lot of ground, I hear.”
It was easy to see how they interpreted the news by how their eyes screwed tighter, brows knitting closer together, going from grief to agitation. Petty in-fighting, domination of the city - it was a slap in the face for someone who had been waiting for rescue. Now they knew their master plan, the thing they had bet their life on, had half worked. Kit was stuffed with potential, a frighteningly powerful mage. He just hadn’t bothered coming back for them.
She expected tears, pleading, defeat. Their words were delightfully measured when they asked, “Orange?”
“Someone from out of town,” she reported. Jaque was the exact town, but they didn’t need to know that. They didn’t need to know a lot of things. “Goes by Clem. Most people say they’re just a source of the colour, that Kit does most of the controlling.”
They hummed an acknowledgement, opened their eyes again, stared at the ceiling. “Lots,” they eventually said.
Although it was as dull as usual, it sounded sarcastic to her ears, like they were mocking her. Nothing infuriated her more than being mocked. She hoped the flush across her cheeks wasn’t obvious. “I don’t know lots about them, no. They’re new to the scene. I have other things to do than gather news on your brother, you know.”
Eyes glanced across her face. “No,” they said. “News.”
“No news,” she echoed.
“Lots,” they insisted. “You.”
“You’re not making any sense, my darling.”
They almost snarled, nose wrinkled, a spark of anger in their eyes. Slowly, carefully, visually, they gathered energy, going pale with the effort, eventually managing to croak, “You have lots of news today.”
A full sentence was impressive at this stage. Hell, single words were impressive - a significant portion of participants had gone entirely mute a week ago. Maybe she was right to put more energy into her remaining patients. “A special treat.”
Another hum. They didn’t seem to care. Their eyes were still open, brown still fixed on the ceiling, but they had started to lose focus, drift from active attention to a freakish half-sleep. Clearly the full sentence had drained them of what little energy they were using to stay awake. She almost felt guilty for it.
More than the guilt was the alarm. The half-sleep that too many participants had adopted was too similar to the stiff clutches of death. Too often, she had held a hand, tried to coax someone into fighting a little longer, felt the exact second their fingers went limp and the odds of her failure went up. A few times, during her scheduled rounds, she had noticed still bodies curled up somewhere, glazed over and perfectly static, and struggled to tell if they were sleeping or dead. More and more often, it was the latter.
This participant was just like any other. Nothing special, beyond the circumstances around how they had arrived. She still didn’t want to watch them die. “Is there anything else I can get you?”
Glazed eyes flicked to focus on her. This was not part of their script either. At this point, she’d wish them well, promise to be back later, and leave them be. Still, they considered the question. “Chair,” they finally said.
“You want to go to the chair?” At the tiny nod, she sucked at her teeth, considered the distance. “I’ll get some guards to -“
“No.”
“No? How do you expect to get to the chair?“
“Walk.”
She laughed at that. She couldn’t help herself. “Love, you’re not going to be able to walk to the chair. It’s five meters away. Be sensible, now.”
“Walk,” they insisted. “I can.”
“You think I’ll let you try? Have you killed, too?”
A pause. Consideration. Then, quietly, “Too?”
Shit. Their eyes were fixed on her, watching her reaction, reading the truth in the millisecond of hesitation. Where had that unfocused glaze gone? She licked her lips with the very tip of her tongue, careful to only gloss over her lipstick, arranged an excuse. “Only a few. It’s to be expected, this isn’t -“
“How many?”
It would have been so easy to lie. Maybe they were sharper than the average participant, but she still controlled the flow of information they received. She could make them believe anything if she put proper work into it, including the mortality rate of this trial.
Looking down at them, positioned as if ready to receive further torture, attention fixed on her and hungry for a tidbit of truth, she couldn’t find it in herself to deceive them. “There’s five left,” she said quietly. “Including you.”
They breathed out at that, an audible exhale. “Start?”
“We started with ninety.”
“Fifty?” She shrugged in way of explanation, and they nodded, as if they expected it, understood it. So practical, so uniform. God, she did like them. “Me?”
Another hesitation. They noticed it. “We’re doing everything we can to keep you alive,” she eventually said, words careful and picked over. “All of you. So, with luck, you should have nothing to worry about.”
“Luck,” they sneered. She could understand their bitterness, given their situation. She also admired their bitterness. So many of the others simply became empty, exhausted. Their anger was a breath of fresh air sometimes.
Other times, it expressed itself in stubborn tendencies. “Chair.”
“I’m not going to let you kill yourself,” she said tiredly.
“Chair.”
“It’s not just your life you’d be wasting. I’m sure you’re used to that, but I can’t afford to allow -“
They barked a laugh, surprisingly loud.“Bitch,” they spat, with great amusement. “I want…”
The rest of their sentence trailed off as they panted for breath, exhausted, determined. She glared venom down at them. They glared venom right back, triumphant and proud. Did she even like them? It seemed to change day-by-day, word-by-word. “Go on, then,” she said, sickly sweet. “Walk to your crummy chair. See how that goes for you.”
To their credit, they hesitated. Maybe they’d buckle, realise she was right, do as she said. It wasn’t too late to forgive them, find the guards, get them to their chair like they wanted. If they apologised, perhaps. Grovelled, definitely. The relationship between them was entirely up to them to decide.
They decided, and strained to move, and she sighed inwardly and settled in to watch them die. The effort of sitting up would be enough to knock them out. Actually walking to the chair would absolutely kill them. If they were lucky, maybe their corpse would land on the plump cushion. The detached part of her that she listened to quite frequently these days was interested in how long it would take for them to give up.
Because they were laying on their back, the process was agonisingly slow. Lacking the immediate strength to simply pull themselves upright, they instead opted to use their arms to hoist up, inch by inch, leaning heavily on their elbows as they gasped for breath. Teeth gritted, limbs shaking, strain intense. She wondered if they’d burn the body today, or leave it for dissection. She wondered if she should send the remains to Kit.
She wondered how in any possible hell her patient had managed to actually get themselves upright.
Conscious and panting, they didn’t have the energy to act smug. They barely had the energy to stay sitting, skin bone white and fingers holding so tightly to the edge of the table that she could see the outline of every single one of their knuckles. As she watched, their head tilted down, chin almost touching their chest, as if the weight of holding it up was too much… before it jerked, jolting up too far, having to settle in place. A visual demonstration of their bodies demands verses their willpower.
It was fascinating to watch. “Well, aren’t you just full of surprises?”
Their eyes latched onto her. Glassy, unfocused, dull. Their chest was heaving with the effort of breathing. Even single words would be near impossible now.
“You’re not going to make it to the chair,” she said, lecture-like. “I’m impressed you got this far, but you need to recognise your limits. You won’t be useful to me if you can’t.”
Something flickered in their eyes, a spark of life in an otherwise empty void. Their jaw tightened.
“I can have you carried to the chair still,” she offered, hands spread in front of her. “You only need to ask. I’ll even take a nod. Just let me know.”
Their head had dipped, exhaustion getting the best of them. She tried not to be disappointed.
“Let’s get you settled down again,” she said gently, moving closer. “Come on, now. You’re tired. Let’s just -“
They lurched suddenly, tipping forwards, and her words cut off as she darted forwards to catch them. At first, she assumed they had reached their limit, passed out. If they hit the floor, the hard tiles would easily shatter their fragile skull. God knows she couldn’t lose someone with the energy to sit up, the fight to resist her better judgement.
It was only when she was holding them up that she realised they were still awake. The lurch hadn’t been the body’s success - they had pushed themselves forwards, the intent to stand, to walk, spurring them onwards.
They seemed surprised to find her in front of them. Most of their weight pressed on her shoulders. They may have been frail, thinned down by the agonies they had endured, but she wasn’t very big herself, and she nearly crumpled under the burden. “Fucking hell,” she snarled. “Are you trying to get yourself killed? Or just trying to piss me off?”
A hand rose, slow and gradual. There was no way they were still lucid after all this. She’d be lucky if they woke again after she finally settled them down. Given how feverish their skin felt, it was only a matter of time before this test failed too. Really, she’d wasted too much time in here.
“Maybe your brother was right to leave you,” she spat at them, as they focused their energy on raising their hand up, up, up. “Knew what sort of a fucking problem you are. Be glad I don’t have you put down, you useless piece of…”
Her words trailed off as their hand finally stopped, gently caressing her face. With careful deliberation, they traced a finger down her temple, down her cheek, down her jaw, letting their thumb rest against her chin, and tilting that up. Given how they had fallen, how they had been caught, the two of them were very close, nearly pressed together; their chest against her shoulders, her eyes level with their chin. Her eyes raised up to meet theirs.
They pressed their lips to hers. Slow and gentle, although not by choice, they kissed her, and she stood there, holding them upright. In the shock of the moment, she let the cold, mechanical part of her head take over, figure this out.
More than anything, it was wondering how she could use this. With five participants left, she had the room to be more personal with each of them, and if this was how they wanted to go about it, well. A quiet romance could be nice, and could keep them obedient, loyal. On the increasingly unlikely chance they survived this, maybe she could keep them around for a bit, if they chained their own heart for her. Until she got bored of them. Until they had ran out of use.
The kiss ended, and they drew back shyly; a school child pecking their crushes cheek for the first time. With as much desperation as they could muster, they searched her gaze, looking for permission or allowance or reciprocation. Apparently not finding it, they started to sag against the table, swallowed, parted their dry lips. “Sorry,” they whispered.
For a millisecond, she considered her options. Leave them to this obvious mistake and add the burden of embarrassment to their situation. Allow what had happened to be a one-off, let them both move past this and forget it had happened. Or reciprocate - give them a reason to fight on, to survive, a reason to stay at her side even after the matter.
They were speaking, for fucks sake. Standing on their own feet after forcing themselves upright and speaking in full sentences. If anyone was going to survive this, it was going to be Elan fucking Soot.
She threaded her fingers through their hair, pulled them closer and pressed her lips to theirs. Much faster. Much more forceful. By the time she was satisfied, they were breathing hard, and her lipstick was pressed over their mouth.
Without her saying anything, they went to wipe it off, dazed. Not the blank-eyed dazed expression she was so used to. Something bright, alive. Something that shouldn’t be in this facility.
A red stain transferred to the back of their hand, and they wrinkled their nose at it, an unimpressed grunt making its way up their throat. “Bright,” they said, irked. “Ugh.”
“If you don’t like it, you don’t have to kiss me,” she said, halfway between flirting and icy.
They smiled, let their arm swing to their side, tilted back, much more weight against their bed. “Thank you.”
“You owe me, lovie.” She let a finger trace along their jawline, let the mechanical voice consider it. There were definitely worse faces to kiss. This could end up being incredibly beneficial to her.
A softer part of her, the part that had made her heart flutter and her face flush, pointed out it could also be beneficial for them. That maybe they had their own mechanical voice, weighing up their options and choosing the best route. That maybe, just maybe, she should be a little bit careful.
Then, they swayed on their feet, let out a long sigh, and nodded. “Guards,” they suggested, a voice like a leafs skeleton. “Now.”
She complied, calling loudly and apparently a little frantically - the guards rushed in with their hands on their batons, ready for trouble, finding instead their employer with a participant collapsed on her shoulder. To their credit, they wasted very little time in sorting the situation out, easing her patient back onto the surgery table, limp limbs arranged as kindly as possible, and ushering her out of the room.
If the guards noticed her lipstick on their lips, neither of them mentioned it.
#colour wip#writing#my writing#original writing#spilled ink#writerblr#writblr#writingblr#fiction#short story#god I really don't know tags#uh hi! Hello! I'm back again! I was gone for about a month and a half. Offline. Trekking the globe seeing more of Europe and all that#alas now I am at my desk again#the allure of being online is Less. I'll probably come back. But for now. Enjoy this?#it's. A lil short story for a lil idea I have that I want to pursue at some point#who knows when#(it's in the running for nano this year)#these are! The two antagonists! They both have names now which is great because when I wrote this piece they didn't#the woman is Bernadette and the other fella is Elan. Elan is named. Good for them#They're perhaps the first instance of me making two characters and before even writing them going 'hey I think they should be romantic'#'but also like. REALLY fucked up romantics'#gestures at this#it's also! The first kiss I've written since I was like. 16! And the first one I've been !!!!! over writing so that's coo#l#ok that's all from me I'm gonna go. Hang out on my bed I think#thanks for reading love you!#trade-marked
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Hi again! Hru? ☆
Just wondering, when you have the time ofc, can you write a story where Y/n gets hurt and it's a lil severe (u can make up how!) So when Roxto finds her, he scolds her a little but ends up treating her and gives her some affection? , So, small lil fluff ! ☆
Hope you see this and if you do I hope you have a great morning! I love ur stories and the way you write.
Bye! ☆
Hey! Thank you sending this request I hope it meets your expectations💗! (Sorry it took me so long to get to it😭)
- Requests are open (please read rules prior to requesting)
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- Infuriated-
Pairing: Agedup! Rotxo x Fem! Metkayina Mate! Reader
Details: ⬇️
- Reader is a warrior and does have some problems controlling her anger (especially when it comes to Amika)
- The character you will be reading about (Amika) will be the antagonist (Reader’s enemy) in this story
- Reader doesn’t like when people talk about Rotxo (or herself) and when they do it triggers her anger
- (Reader is a little crazy but we still love her🤭!)
- Words written like this indicates a flashback
Warnings: Angst, hurt & comfort, fighting/injury, mention of blood, drama and mild swearing
Authors Note: I put a spin on the request so I hope you all like it💗! (I was lowkey nervous about posting this😭)
- if you see any mistakes please excuse them
Word count: 3.8k
Glossary: Yawne - beloved II Iknimaya - rite of passage || Skxawng - idiot, moron || Olo'eyktan - clan leader || Mauri - pods built in the giant mangrove-like trees alongside the shores
I hope you all enjoy💗!
Likes, Comments, and Reblogs are highly appreciated💗!
As you and Rotxo were eating lunch he began telling you his plans for the day, "Aonung and I are going hunting in the jungle today" he said as he ate his grilled fish. He's been anticipating on going hunting in the jungle for a while now. "You seem excited!" you say as you look at the wide smile on his face "I am! I've been trying to convince Aonung to come with me for a while and he finally agreed" As both of you continue to talk he begins to ask you about your plans.
"I'm going to the training hall today. Tonowari asked me to come help train some of the young warriors" You tell him before you take a sip of your drink. "Is Amika going to be there?" He asked you with a raised eyebrow "Yeah she is. Why do you ask?" Rotxo just shakes his head while he speaks "Because you know how you two are always at each others throats"
You and Amika have had a combative relationship ever since the two of you became teenagers. You and her always got into arguments about various things and sometimes it got physical. Both of you always knew exactly what to say to make the other tick, you both loved pushing each other's buttons.
Neither of you knew what was the origin of your long-time feud, but both of you knew that you didn't like each other for a reason.
"I know but we haven't argued recently so I think we'll be fine" you say shrugging your shoulders not thinking to much of it. You and her have passed by each other multiple times throughout the village but you never spoke, you just give each other angry glares.
"No I know how you are. If she pushes your buttons you will black out and things will get physical" Rotxo said as he thought about the last altercation you and Amika had.
When you were sitting on the shore, creating a new fish net you heard your name fall from Amika's lips, "I don't know what Rotxo sees in her. When he could have all this" she begins to gesture to her body "He decides to mate with Y/N " she says in a ick tone. You can hear Amika continuously talking about you to her friends which annoys you.
As you try to take the high road and ignore her you can't. You put down your incomplete fish net and walked over to her, "Amika do you have something to say to me because I can hear my name rolling off your tongue every five seconds" you tell her in a snappy tone. Amika begins to laugh right in your face, "Me talk about you? please! I don't even want to hear your name" she tells you and you know she's obviously lying
"Oh so you didn't say how Rotxo could've mated with you and but he instead chose me" you say while mocking her voice and doing the same gestures she did earlier. As Amika's friends watch the two of you argue they began to laugh at how you were making fun of Amika.
"It's true! I don't understand what he sees in a pathetic person like you" she boldly yells which makes you walk closer to her and get in her face "Me Pathetic?! Girl please you really are a skxawng aren't you?!" You say as you begin to laugh "you want to call me pathetic but your the one who came to MY mate's pod crying asking why he didn't chose you AFTER he has declined you many many times" a sly smirk spreads across your face knowing you opened an old wound.
You looked at her friends face expression and see the shocked looks on there faces which told you that they didn't know that happened. "Oh Amika you didn't want to tell your little friends that? Oops my bad" you say sarcastically
Amika balled up her fist and threw a punch toward for face. The punch connected and created a red bruise on your cheek. Once that happened your whole demeanor changed. You swung back and both you began fighting in the sand.
Once people seen both of you fighting they ran over to watch. Warriors came running toward you and pulled you off of her. As they pulled you away from Amika you could see blood dripping down her lips, a red bruise on both of her eyes, and multiple scratches along her body and face. As she sat there crying all you could do was chuckle, you hoped that taught her a lesson to watch her mouth and to not pick a fight with you but knowing Amika you knew that even the worst beating wouldn't get it through her thick skull.
"Rotxo the last fight we had wasn't even that big of a deal" you say waving him off
Rotxo's mouth flew open as he heard you say that, "Not that big a deal?! Amika face was messed up for weeks and she could barely see from how swollen her eyes were!"
"Well she shouldn't have been talking about me, she knows I can get a little crazy" you say with a small smile thinking about how her face contorted every time you threw a punch. ‘Little is a understatement’ Rotxo thought while shaking his head at you before speaking again "Maybe I should come with you and make sure nothing happens" he began contemplating if you could handle being in the same proximity as Amika.
"Rotxo I do not need a babysitter. I know how to control myself" you tell him as you stand up and began grabbing his and your shell plate. "Do you though? Last time the two of you got into an argument it ended in a fight" he began following you throughout the mauri. "Because she started it! She hit me first Rotxo what was I suppose to do let her just hit me?!" You began to raise your voice as your tail starts to swing behind you
"No I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that once she gets under your skin you tend to just act without thinking" Rotxo said in calm voice, trying to not get upset. He knew that if raised his voice like you just did it would only amp you up more so he decided to stay calm.
"I know sometimes I do but it's not my fault! She just, she just... she just makes me so upset!" You say as you begin to rant. "She is always saying something about me or our relationship and it just makes me so mad! She so bitter that she chooses to aggravate me. We've always went back and forth but when she found out we mated it made her more aggressive towards me but it's okay though because she knows I will always be more aggressive" you begin to crack your knuckles thinking about how it would go if you and Amika got into a fight this time around.
You knew that if you ever got into with her again it would get messy and you were prepared for whatever.
Rotxo just sighed hearing your response. "Y/N can you please not fight with her today. I don't want you to get hurt" He walks up to you and you can see his big blue eyes pleading with you
"Okay Rotxo I promise... I won't fight her today..." You mumble out which makes him smile "Good thank you yawne" he gives you a kiss before continuing to help you clean up.
You were going to try your best to control yourself and not let Amika get under your skin. You wanted to keep your word with Rotxo and not disappoint him so you were going to restrain yourself as much as possible.
As your walking to the training hall you can see numerous young warriors sparring with each other. As you watched them it made you think about when you were their age, trying to become the best warrior Awa'atlu had to offer. Once you stepped inside the hall you can see Tonowari walking up to you, "Thank you for coming to help train the young warriors Y/N" he said with a grateful expression
"Oh it's no problem Tonowari I always love coming to help. What do you want me to do first?"
"Can you help them learn how to use a spear. They already know the basics they just need help learning how to use in combat" Tonowari pointed to a group of girls that looked around the ages of fourteen to sixteen. "Of course" you walked over to the group and began to observe them so you could learn their strengths and weaknesses.
As you continued to watch them one of the girls spoke up, "Are you going to be our teaching us?"
"Yes I will be teaching and helping all of you today" you say as a smile spreads across your face. You always loved to come help the young warriors because they were always determined to soak up knowledge and new techniques.
"Wow! We get one of the best warriors to teach us!" One of the girls said which made all the others agree. As you heard them tell each other different stories about your days as a warrior you began to chuckle.
"Okay girls who's ready to start the lesson?!" You ask with enthusiasm laced in your voice
"We are!" They say as they raise their spears in the air
"Good let's get started!" You grab your spear and begin teaching them different techniques
One hour later
The girls have been picking up on techniques very well. You were proud of them for learning so quickly. As you continued practicing with them you could see Amika out the corner of your eye giving you dirty looks, you almost said something to her but instead you just continued helping your group because you didn't want to start anything. Rotxo words asking you to not get into it with Amika rang in your ears so you restrained yourself.
Amika watched you train your group and she was growing upset because your girls were learning faster and better than her group.
As you returned her a dirty look Tonowari walked in the middle of the training hall and began to speak, "I've been watching all of you and you all are doing very well. When it's time to do your iknimaya all of you will officially become warriors!"
All the young warriors raised their spears in the air and began to let out yelps of excitement. Once they began to quite down Tonowari started speaking again.
"I know all of you have been locking in your skills with using a spear but I want all of you to get use to hand to hand combat as well just in case you lose your weapon or something happens. I want you all to see a real fight so are there any experienced warriors who want to set an example?"
"I will but only if Y/N joins me..." Your ears perk up as you hear your name being called. As you looked around to see who it was you instantly rolled your eyes
Amika pointed her spear at you and everyone began to stare at you waiting for your response. You didn't really want to fight her but you couldn't decline her challenge in front of everyone, "I accept" Na'vi began to erupt in quiet whispers as they watch the two of you walk in to the middle of the floor. They knew both of you have a troubled history so everyone was interested in seeing you two fight.
Tonowari raised an eyebrow, as he heard Amika challenge you. He was one of the people who had to pull you off of Amika when you got into your last altercation so he knew what you were capable of.
"Why did you challenge me?" You asked her since you were honestly curious. "Did you really think I would let you get away with what happened before? That I wouldn't come get my revenge? That I would let it slide that you told my friends something personal?" She snarled at you
"If it was so 'personal' you shouldn't have been talking about me" you said while shrugging your shoulders trying to remain as calm as possible "I was just on the same timing as you" you don't feel a ounce of remorse for what you did at all, you felt like she deserved it after talking about you.
As both of you continued talking it was become more and more heated. As Tonowari watched both of you he could see the anger bubbling up inside both of you. "I don't think this is a good idea, I will pick different warriors to show an example" he said not wanting this to go the wrong way
"No no Olo'eyktan it's okay, I'll fight her. She wants to pick a fight with me like she always does so I'll give it to her" you say with a smirk on your face
Tonowari steps back hesitantly and let's both of you fight. What you didn't know is that he sent one of the warriors to the jungle to get Rotxo and bring him the training hall. He knew this probably wasn't going to end well so he wanted your mate to come as soon as possible.
You and Amika began circling each other while hissing angrily. Amika is the first to throw a punch and both of you begin to fight. You two have tried to throw shots at each other but both of you block each other's attempts. As the fight continues you make one blow and hit Amika in the shoulder. She groans out in pain but she continues to fight, you make sure to make a small hit but nothing to much to injure her to much.
Amika realizes how concentrated you are so she decides to try and throw you off your game, "Tell Rotxo I miss him" she says with a smirk. You knew she was trying to distract you so you tried to tune her out and focus on the fight.
Amika thought 'throwing you off your game' would make you distracted and vulnerable enough for her to get some hits in so she kept pestering you.
As the fight progressed you threw a punch at her but she dodged it and threw a harder punch at you.
"Shit..." you mumble out as you bend over slightly and hold your stomach. Amika watched you with a smirk on her face as she feels like she just accomplished something, "Is the 'mighty warrior' not feeling well? Did I hit you too hard?" She says in a sarcastic caring tone.
You were trying not to hurt her and here she was intentionally going farther than just a little sparring. You knew by the smirk on her face she was trying to do more than just a little example fight for the young warriors.
"Amika is this how you wanna play? Throw illegal shots? You know you stomach shots are against the rules!" You yell at her as you began to stand back up straight
"I know that's why I did it, I want this to be just like when we fought in the sand. I want this to get bloody, I want to reciprocate the same pain you gave me when you attacked me at the shore weeks ago" She said raising her voice for everyone in the hall to hear
Everyone around the hall was intensely listening to both of you argue, "Attack you?! Are you delusional? You threw the first punch at me! You know what, I've been sparing your weak ass because my mate told me to but you're really pushing my buttons right now!" You say as you feel yourself grow angry as you pointed your finger in her face
"Since we're talking about Rotxo tell him to come by my mauri tonight, I'll show him what being with a REAL woman is like. I know he's tired of going to bed unsatisfied every night" Amika said with a malicious laugh knowing that she pushed you over the edge.
Everyone in the training hall mouths went agape, they were taken aback by the nasty comment she just made toward you. You were shocked as well, you knew she would say slick things but this... this was below the belt.
Your breathing began to get heavier and your eyes went from a beautiful blue to pitch black. Adrenaline ran through your body as you begin to ball up your fists. Your whole demeanor began to change and everyone could tell including Amika. You could see the look in her eye and tell she was growing fearful even though she tried to keep up her 'tough' act.
She walked up to you and punch you right in the nose, when her fist made impact you could hear a small crack. Instead of you groaning out in pain you began to let out a dark laugh which made everyone look at you like you were crazy, "your going to regret doing that, your going to wish that you didn't pick this fight with me" you say as a evil smirk spread across your face
Without saying another word you draw your arm back punch her in the face so hard she stumbles back and falls onto the ground. You grab her, raising her off the ground and began punching her repeatedly.
All you could see is red, all you were focused on was her, all you could hear was her words swarming around your head that you couldn't please your mate and that you were inadequate. She knew Rotxo was something that triggered this side of you so you don't know why she even did it and then for her say that in front of all these people including children was just weird to you.
As you continued making blows to her face and body you couldn't stop, the only way you could stop is if someone pulled you off of her. Amika tried to get some hits in and she did but they were nothing compared to the damage you were doing to her.
Every time you hit her your goal was to hear something crack, you wanted to see crimson liquid fall onto your hands from causing her a injury.
You were so focused on Amika you didn't even realize Rotxo walked into the training hall.
"Y/N! STOP!" Rotxo yelled trying to get your attention
You couldn't even hear him, you were to focused on the task at hand. The next thing you felt was a pair of hands wrapped around your waist, "LET GO OF ME!" You yell out trying to get out of the persons grasp and make your way back to Amika
"Yawne relax it is me" when you heard Rotxo voice it snapped you back into reality. You looked down and saw Amika on the floor curled up in a ball. Your eyes went back to their natural color and your body became less tense. He noticed how you demeanor changed and how your body relaxed so he let you go.
Before you left with Rotxo you needed to tell Amika one last thing.
You crouched down to her level and looked her in the eye, "You better not say some stupid ass shit like that again. This is your only warning, your lucky Rotxo pulled me off of your skxawng ass because I was this close to caving your head in. If you pull something like this again I will beat you until your soul meets Eywa, try me if you want to" you spat at her viciously. When you stood up you slap her in the face with your tail and began walking back toward Rotxo.
Rotxo grabbed you by your wrist (gently of course) and began leading you to your mauri. The walk there was silent, you knew once you got home he was going to be upset because you didn't keep your promise. As you walk inside Rotxo walks in behind you and closes the entrance curtain. Rotxo goes on the opposite side of the mauri and grabs some healing supplies. He walk back in the open area where your standing "sit down" is all he said. You knew he was upset when he only said a few words.
Once you sat down he began cleaning your small wounds and bruises. You didn't even realize your injuries until now because your body isn't running with adrenaline anymore.
Your hands were bruised, your nose was bleeding and a little broken. You also had some minor scratches and your stomach had a bruise on it from when Amika punched you. When Rotxo began putting a salve on your bruise you winced from the pain. Rotxo eyes softened as he watched your face contort from the pain but he was still upset with you.
As Rotxo continued healing your wounds he still hasn't said anything so you decided to break the silence, "Rotxo I know your mad but-"
"Yes I am mad! You promised me you wouldn't fight her and you did! I didn't want to see you hurt and that's exactly what happened! Look at you with all of these injuries!" He scolded as he continued ranting
As you heard him your ears fell flat, you hated that you made him upset. "Rotxo I'm sorry I didn't want to fight her but she just pushed me, she crossed the line this time"
When he heard you say that he became curious, "what do you mean? What did she do?" He asked as he sat down next you wanting to hear every detail
You explained everything to him. You told him how she was making dirty looks, how she challenged you, that disrespectful comment, and how she punched you in the nose.
"Rotxo I tried to control myself as much as possible, I really did but she push me to the limit. Saying that I wasn't a real women, that I couldn't please you it infuriated me. All I could see red, I-I just blacked out"
"I can't believe she said and did all that! If I would've known I would've continued letting you beat her to a pulp"
He took a small breath before continuing to speak
"I'm sorry yawne, I should've listened to your reasoning before I got upset. I just started getting upset before I even made sure you were okay" he grab your hand, gliding his thumb over your teal skin as he looked at you with apologetic eyes.
"It's okay Rotxo, I understand why you got upset. I'm okay, my body hurts a little but I'll be fine. I know you worry about me and my anger and I promise I'll get it under control"
"I know you will" he says as he plants a kiss on your forehead. "Now let's finish getting you patched up, okay?" He picks up the healing supplies and starts back tending to your wounds.
Previous work
I hope you enjoyed💗!
Likes, Comments, and Reblogs are highly appreciated💗!
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#❖ — 🌳: 𝒀𝑶𝑼 𝑯𝑨𝑽𝑬 𝑨 𝑺𝑻𝑹𝑶𝑵𝑮 𝑯𝑬𝑨𝑹𝑻.!#❖ — 🪸: 𝑾𝑨𝑻𝑬𝑹 𝑪𝑶𝑵𝑵𝑬𝑪𝑻𝑺 𝑨𝑳𝑳 𝑻𝑯𝑰𝑵𝑮𝑺.!#anger issues#tw blo0d#fighting#tw brusies#tw anger#avatar fanfiction#avatar james cameron#avatar fandom#avatar the way of water#atwow x y/n#rotxo x reader#atwow rotxo#avatar rotxo#rotxo fic#rotxo x y/n#Rotxo angst#rotxo fanfiction#tonowari#rotxo x metkayina fem! reader#metkayina clan#rotxo hurt/comfort
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The Asakura Twins are Neat Basically
just me shoving a bunch of thoughts together with basically no structure so I can have words to look at when I force my english classmates to deal with this later (and also because I'm a dumb nerd who likes being a dumb nerd)
I probably talk in circles a lot here so be forewarned
tldr: Yoh and Hao are fundamentally the same person except for a couple things which makes them excellent foils and characters and it's cool and I love them and
I think Yoh and Hao work so well as protagonist and antagonist because on a fundamental level they are the same person. This isn't even me making stuff up, they're frequently described as each other's "other halves" or as originally being the same soul.
They're both even called the same thing as kids.
In his chapter of Zero (one of my favourite Shaman King spinoff manga. Go read it if you haven't it's only like ten chapters and is brilliant) it's shown that Yoh even acted like Hao when he was younger (between the ages of four and ten based on other flashbacks). This Yoh openly hates everyone, and wants to isolate himself from them.
This panel specifically really reminds me of Hao. Not sure if this is canon but my hc is that Yoh was born with the same soul as Hao (without some stuff like memories or Spirit of Fire) but acts differently because of his interactions with Matamune and the ghost girl from Zero.
When they talk in the Shaman King's commune near the end of the manga, Yoh even expresses that he does still hold the same views of humanity, he just applies them differently.
This is so cool because on the surface level the Asakura twins read as stereotypical shonen characters: the power of friendship paragon hero and the pure evil villain. They oppose each other on principle, but so much about them (views of humanity, genetics, appearances, and even personalities) are or were the same. These characters only really differ in their mindsets and applications of their views. Hao has given up on humanity and just wants them gone, whereas Yoh believes in the good in people and that things can be better.
They don't have the same dynamic you'd expect from the aforementioned shonen tropes either. Every conversation they have is surprisingly civil. The cafe scene, onsen scene, and even Kurobina's intro scene; they just talk. It's cool.
I've talked about how Yoh acts like Hao in his Zero chapter, but Hao also displays traits we associate more with Yoh (these names are losing meaning by the second. By that I mean Hao is ridiculously chill. This is probably in part because he's so much more powerful than everybody else that he doesn't need to be worried, but I think it's also because he's just built like that. He brings a baguette and binoculars to the Shaman Fight and randomly shows up to hang out with his brother a couple times (including the one where he just invited himself to sleep over). He displays the same laid-back vibes as Yoh, he's just more murdery when he's not doing that.
I feel it's appropriate to call them narrative foils, but I think it's a bit deeper than that. The Asakura twins aren't just similar, they are the same in every element except what makes them oppose each other. And it is very interesting to watch these two characters interact with each other.
I mentioned the Shaman King commune scene before, and I think it really shows what I mean (it's also my favourite scene in all of Shaman King, period). At this point, Hao has basically won. He's the Shaman King, everyone's dead (but this is Shaman King so that's far from permanent), and he just wants to talk to his brother before he consumes his soul. It's a great scene because it reveals how identical they are, specifically the apathy they share. They just sit and talk for a couple of minutes before Yoh rejects Hao's offer to stay in the commune (demonstrating their difference in mindset yada yada) and the (cool part) of the scene ends.
And I think it's neat.
They're neat.
That's it.
(for now)
#long post#no beta (me rereading this) we die like ren#yes I do plan on telling my classmates about shaman king we have a very open ended presentation in janurary#feel free to add on your musings or how you think I'm wrong#let's be nerds together#shaman king#asakura hao#asakura yoh
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J2 Main Panel Phoenixcon 2022
The very first thing that Jared says is "ladies and gentlemen, look at this handsome fella" I can't with how much he loves his husband ❤️
During the Gold panel there was a fan from Surprise, Arizona and during this one Jared brings it up and that he had just learned about this place so the crowd starts telling them some of the more unique names Arizona locations have like Christmas, Nowhere, Why- the boys are confused but amused 😂
Jensen says they're there to answer all of the fan's questions by which he means probably twelve, and I'm mentioning this because I have done enough of these Main panel posts to tell y'all he is correct. On average the boy's main panel consists of 12 to 14 questions.
You know when you throw something against the wall to see what sticks? That's Jared saying 'why' at random times to see what joke lands (cause they were told there's a place called Why in Arizona) and Jensen says he's gonna keep saying it until he gets everyone to laugh to which Jared says that he swears it gets funnier and Jensen goes "it doesn't. but to him it does!" It's cute but also very husband-ish.
Let's get into the questions, first up: Who would they say is better at rock, paper, scissors? Only one way to find out and that is to actually play the game. The first time they both get rock, the second Jensen gets scissors and Jared paper so Jensen wins. x
How did Jensen feel going from a protagonist in spn to an antagonist in The Boys?
Jensen says "what are you talking about? Soldier Boy was a good guy." He forgets who it was, he thinks it might have been Lee Marvin who was asked once a long time ago why he always played bad guys and his response was "I've never played a bad guy in my life". The antagonist is the hero in their own story which is what Soldier Boy is and Homelander is, they don't see themselves as the bad guy they think they're the good guy. In their mind they're right and everybody else is wrong. So, he just tried to follow that path and make Soldier Boy be like 'of course I'm right' and an unapologetic know-it-all, and doing that was a lot of fun. That people say it's always good playing the bad guy but he thinks the reason you're able to have fun with it is because you're doing what your character thinks is right but you know it's not.
The fan had mentioned that they only watched the show so they could see Jensen's season. Jared said he only watched to see Jensen's butt- sir you are so flirty today!
Anyways, Jensen hopes they enjoyed the show, says he's been a fan long before he got the phone call from Kripke. He thinks it's wildly entertaining but also incredibly smart, and to be able to live 15yrs in a world Kripke created and then go and play in another world that he is owning and operating Jensen will forever answer that call.
Fan also says that they're only watching Big Sky for Jensen, and Jared pats Jensen's arm and tells the fan to keep an eye open for the jacket that Jensen is wearing which is when Jensen reveals that he just walked off set with the jacket on Friday. That the wardrobe department is probably wondering where it went, and we'll see him wearing the jacket in the 11th episode. No thoughts, just these two being husbands. okay, maybe some thoughts cause it's such a little thing but the fact that Jared knows where the jacket comes from and the story, and that it's something Jensen's character wears in a future episode it's kinda domestic like of course he knows where Jensen got his jacket, of course, he knows that his husband just walked off with it, of course, he knows little details. x
What is some advice they would give their younger self?
Jared replies that he thinks everything you do in life has a trade-off, there's no such thing as a win-win. For instance, when he was growing up he was very task-oriented, if he had a goal he was gonna reach it and it's great he loves where he is now and he loves meeting people that are passionate about a project that he is passionate about as well but that meant he skipped a lot of stuff he didn't go to homecoming, had to miss prom cause he was doing debate or drama practice. He's proud of it but everything has a trade-off so he would tell his younger self to try to be present in the moment as much as possible and understand that nothing comes for free which sounds like it's bad but it's actually wonderful. And then as you grow up and get married and have kids those friends who aren't married with children and wanna go to parties and stuff you don't see them as much but you have your spouse and then you have kids and you end up seeing a lot of people who your kids are friends with their parents so everything kind of gets set in a certain direction and it's a wonderful part of life you learn a lot about yourself. But he would tell his high school self, or college aged self, to try to remain present as much as he can but it's difficult.
Jensen shares a story about Jared. The first couple of seasons of spn were a big shock to Jared's system. Jensen had already been working in Van and kind of knew the drill so he adjusted a little quicker than Jared did, Jared had a tough time settling into the fact that this was his life now and he was missing his friends in LA and his family in Texas and went to Jensen emotional several times to open up to him about this 🥺😭
And Jensen thinks if Jared could go back to talk to that version of himself he would tell him what he just told the fan which is you're missing what's outside the window right now because you got your head in your hands. And even though his life never went back to that- something they talk about is how they pressed pause in 2005 in LA with their lives and they never pressed unpause their lives just completely changed. They moved to Van, lived there for 15yrs and it set them on a whole different course.
The road is very long, the journey is very long. Don't sweat the small stuff, and you might just be able to take more in than if you keep your eyes shut. x
While working on spn were they offered any other roles they wish they would have taken?
Jared jokes Soldier Boy, then says that's two different answers and that he's gonna let Jensen answer for himself even though he knows his answer. Yes, he was offered other roles, movies, and bits here and there but no, he's not upset that he didn't accept any of them. When you're shooting a tv show you're pretty much busy from July to April so they're like 'hey there are these young guys on a tv show we'd love them in a movie and there are 4 or 5 shooting during the summer that they'd be great for' and he and Jensen did that between seasons 3 and 4, they had two months off due to the writer's strike so they figured it was kind of like a hiatus so they could go ahead and work in the summer. Great time shooting the film, an awful time going from shooting the movie to Van to shoot for another 9 months, so it helped him understand the value of his time and what his time is worth as well as about his own mental health and being able to wind down before running another marathon. So he doesn't regret passing on any other offers.
Jensen says he doesn’t regret not being able to do anything that was a possibility, he does wish he could have made it happen but he's not sad that it didn't; there was definitely a movie he was in talks about and trading e-mails and calls with the director but he wasn't available at the time so the train stopped there but had he been available he would have had to jump through a lot of hoops. He had a really good shot, and it's a movie he really likes so every time he watches it he thinks how fun it would have been to have been a part of that at this point the crowd asks him what movie it was and I wanna know what would have happened if Jared had said no. Because before Jensen reveals what movie he was talking about he turns towards Jared to see if Jared thinks he should say what movie it was, and it's only after Jared says yeah that he reveals that it was Deadpool. Sir, if your husband had said no would you not have shared the name of the movie?
Anyways, he says it was probably a good thing because his ex-girlfriend was on there so it probably would have been awkward. But it would have been cool. x
Do they listen to any Latin songs that make them wanna get up and dance? Daddy Yankee, Selena, Bad Bunny? The question was in English but it may as well have been French with how confused Jensen is; Jared has listened to Selena cause growing up in San Antonio she was on the radio quite a bit, so he has heard El Chico del Apartamento 512 more times than he can count. Says Daddy Yankee is badass, Luis Fonsi- you know them from Despacito don't you mi amor?
Jensen is still kind of confused and struggling to think of a song, Jared mentions Despacito...Jensen says that's Justin Bieber. *takes a deep breath* Jensen I love you but if you had said that in front of my Puerto Rican ass you would have discovered the power of la chancla. Despacito existed and was a hit before JB's pasty ass was ever put in the remix.
He can't resist cranking up La Bamba when it comes on the radio, he got to work with Lou Diamond Phillips and he thinks he's awesome and did an amazing job in the Ritchie Valens role. Jared mentions Feliz Navidad, and Jensen says that he knows for a fact Jared loves Livin' La Vida Loca. x
They ask the fan if they have any recommendations and she says Daddy Yankee. I somehow can't imagine these men listening to reguetón. But if they ever decide to check out Bad Bunny, I highly encourage watching his music video for his song El Apagón. And actually y'all should go watch that too, I'll even provide a link, put on closed captioning if needed. El Apagón.
Who is their favorite person in the entire cast to work with? Jensen says it would be hard to pick one, that there was a reason the show lasted as long as it did and it's because he was clearly Jared's favorite 😆 Then jokes his favorite was Rob Benedict.
Jared answers that obviously he and Jensen saw so much of each other over 15yrs that if they didn't greatly enjoy working together they wouldn't be there right now but that it was very fun to meet his now wife, and mother of his kids on set. And if she happens to watch a youtube video of this question and he doesn't say her, he's gonna be in deep trouble, sleeping outside at which Jensen goes 'oh, yeah sister Jo'. Do I even have to say it at this point? 🤨
What do they do to keep their friendship close?
Jensen says you're looking at it. Jared jokes avoid each other as much as possible.
Jared says one of the things he has learned now as a 40yr old husband and father who has met a lot of people is that when you're really close to somebody you don't have to call each other every day. His brother who is one of his best friends lives 10 minutes away, they'll go 6 weeks without texting each other but when they see each other it's like no time has passed. He thinks with friends that you go through a lot with you can pick up where you left off. They both have three kids of their own, and Jensen is in a different state currently but when they get the chance to get together and download it's kinda like 'see ya when i see ya'. He knows Jensen has his back and vice versa.
Jensen says when you spend as much time together as they have, you cover a lot of topics and subjects and know where each other stands on just about everything so there are long stretches where they aren't getting face time and it's like 'bro, I have so much to tell you!' And he thinks it will always be like that, it's just easy. And in fact, it's like that with the rest of the cast, they all have lives, and different jobs but when they come together to do cons it's like getting the band back together. Or, he and Jared will just wave at each other at drop-off.
Jared thinks it goes back to what they were saying earlier about being present, he's always felt this way about himself and he sees it with Jensen as well the thing that Jensen mentioned in the Gold panel about how to be an actor when they call action nothing else can exist, you have to be present you can't be thinking about the bill you forgot to pay, you have to be there at the moment and that's how they live their life. So it never feels like ' man, why didn't he call me?' it's like 'oh I know what he would have said if I said hey I have this problem'. So he knows what Jensen would say so when he's with him he doesn't have to talk about dumb shit. They can call each other whenever and they have and will continue but they also know how busy each other is.
Jensen adds this is also something they're very used to, they've lived pretty much their entire adult life being out on the road being away from loved ones, having long distances between a lot of the relationships whether family, friends, girlfriends, spouse. So, it's something that they're very familiar with, it's very normal for them to go long stretches without seeing someone they hold so dear. But at the same time it's like Jared said, right now he's right there; that his wife and kids are at a monster truck rally and he'd love to be there but he's not because he's loving being there at the con. And that's just what it is, they've got no problem with it, he's got no problem with it, that's just their lives, their normal. x
Now y'all know I got thoughts! I find the progression of their answer so interesting, it's like seeing the door turn to glass but being left translucent. They start off by trying to make it sound like they don't see each other that much because they're really busy and they don't feel like they gotta contact each other about the small stuff but on two separate, recent, occasions they indicated differently. When Jared was on the GG podcast he mentioned he had been texting Jensen about an app Jensen knew about that would let Jared stream tv in his trailer. And during an interview, Jensen said he and Jared talk quite a bit and that producing has opened up a whole other part of their lives and given them a whole new set of topics to talk about and spitball with each other. And of course, there's Jensen's mention of the school drop-off, the kids go to school together, both these men have talked about going to parent teacher-meetings.
So they're obviously trying to downplay things. And then! Then Mr. Ackles decides to point out one little thing, and this is when the door turns translucent, he points out that they're used to having to be away from loved ones, and having to go long stretches of time from someone they hold so dear. And when talking about long distances between relationships after mentioning family and friends he pauses and then stumbles to girlfriend and spouse. Interesting he would say girlfriend and spouse instead of just saying wife or just saying spouse, makes one wonder what word his brain was throwing at him when he paused....perhaps one that starts with h and ends with d 🤔
In conclusion/read between the lines translation: they love each other but they know their chosen career means they can't see each other every day, and that's okay they know they each have work responsibilities it sucks but it's also normal for them to have to go through long periods of time apart, and they both accept that. they keep in contact as much as they can with their schedules and when they get the opportunity to be together in person they are 100% present in the moment, enjoying it, and loving it. It's all very healthy, committed, secure, long-term relationship ❤️
Continuing on, what’s the best time of year to go visit Austin? Both boys answer either Fall or Spring. Summer gets really hot, and Winter can be hit or miss. So, October/November or April/May, maybe even March.
I just have to say that Winter in Central Texas is only hit or miss if you don't suffer from pollen allergies because if you do it's a miss. Because they have a bunch of cedar and juniper trees and those little bastards release their pollen in Winter so if you have pollen allergies get ready to not be able to breathe and have your ass kicked by Cedar Fever. Sincerely, someone who had their ass kicked by Cedar Fever. x
Is there a story arc that they were disappointed got cut off?
Jensen says they were actually quite a lot, his top two are Michael, he wishes he could have played that a little longer, and Purgatory.
Jared says he would have liked to see more of Sam as a father but they didn't have a lot of time left in the episode. He had a fun time when Sam is realizing that he has powers and so do others that's something he really liked a lot, he loved playing Gadreel but that's something he got to do for a while, and he too wishes we had seen more Michael.
Then the boys get all confused because Jensen thinks Jared didn't know that he'd be playing Gadreel from the very beginning but Jared tells him he did, but Jensen is still confused and Jared's like "Jared knew, Sam didn't, you did" then he pauses cause he's getting confused too; then Jensen starts wondering if he's mixing up what happened in the show for reality then Jared tells him that what they didn't know was Gadreel/Ezekiel's motivations or why he was an angel on the run but he knew he was playing an angel and so Jensen's like 'maybe that's it'. Then he says he missed his nap 😂
Then Jared starts to say that Tahmoh played Gadreel before he did but a fan tells him it was the other way around that Tahmoh had to watch Jared's reel to play it but Jared remembers Tahmoh on set watching him but Tahmoh always tells the story that he had to base his performance off of what Jared had done. Jared says he'll have to verify cause now he's curious. Then he says that storyline was a lot of fun and starts to say it was s12 and the fan says 9. Jensen is just confused and says he doesn't remember shit, to which Jared says Jensen needs his nap. Jensen starts to joke around that he's grumpy and he's tired- and Jared jumps in to say "and handsome" 😂
If they could do an spn movie what characters would they like to see come back or what story would they like to tell?
Jared says there are so many stories they could tell, and hopefully will, and there are a lot of characters they'd like to see come back. Charlie, Garth, Ash, Alistair- Jensen says he would like to go toe to toe with Alistair again, that he was awesome. x
The next fan brings up the s1 spn commercials and how incestuous they were 💀 They don't actually say they were incestuous what they say is that they look at those commercials now and are like "why is it sexual? isn't it brothers?" The best part about it is the boy's reactions, especially Jensen's, cause they're just nodding and laughing like "yeah 😏"
Anyways, the question is for Jensen and it's basically what are the twins up to cause they're very rarely posted. Jensen says that he and Jared have talked about this since they both have 3 kids- and Jared goes "I didn't do two at once though" to which Jensen replies "listen, I didn't plan it!". He continues, saying, that he was good after one. That they made the perfect one, why risk again, why roll the dice. Then D told him she wanted 4 or 5, and his reaction to that was that she better find someone else to help her there but after a tedious negotiation - his words not mine! - he agreed to one more, just one more that's it and then two came out. Sir, of all the ways you could have worded this. These men have made comments like this before, they haven't really bothered to make it a secret that the last kiddos were not in the original plans but it's been a while since one of them has been so emphatic about it.
It continues, he says the kids will ask him all the time who his favorite is and he tells them JJ but that he's able to get away with saying that because he tells them it's because he's known her longer. That doesn't make it better, buddy. Then, when he says that, Arrow usually goes and draws him something very mean like him falling down a well. But that the twins are amazing, and they've been waiting till they got a little older to put things out but also he has pictures or little videos that he thinks he'd like to share but then the parent part of him is like "don't put too much of your kids out there, reserve some of that stuff for yourself" so he holds off and tries to keep some of those memories his. I'm not gonna say a word.
Jared decides to share that his favorite is O but it's because she's had the least time to piss him off. To which Jensen pitches in that knowing O he's pretty sure she's pissed him off more than the boys combined. Also, O and Zeppelin are in the same class, they (the school) were smart to separate Arrow and O cause the world ends when those two unite. x
If they could have their character sit down with their kids what would they hope Sam and Dean would teach them? Jensen answers mechanics. Cars these days are not really mechanically friendly to people who wanna tinker, they're mostly computers so it's a good thing he does have a 1967 Chevy Impala, he wishes Dean would come and teach him what he's looking at; Jared says all 3 of his kids are starting to learn to read or read better, and he heard a great quote the other day that he loved and had never heard before about the importance of getting kids reading: "at some point in your life you're learning to read from then on you're reading to learn". When everyone was at home stuck during the pandemic he was still traveling it was just in the pages of a book, he was still learning and meeting new people so he'd be like Sammy go put 'em in a library and just teach them how to read better.
Jensen then asks Jared what would he want Dean to teach his kids? Jared jokes and says that he would warn Dean to stay away from O. Then he says that his brother and he have this, Jensen and he have this, Sam and Dean have this and that's the shared loyalty and sacrifice. He starts to say "our boys" then corrects himself to "my boys", yeah I heard that slip, Jared.
Continuing, they're 8 and 10 and go between being best of friends to mortal enemies and he was the same with his brother but growing up, and like someone had asked earlier what they would say to their younger self, to nurture those relationships and friendships, and some people are close with their family and others aren't so close with their blood family but they have found family meanwhile they'll talk to the boys when they get in small arguments and let them know how lucky they are that they have a built-in best friend. Nurture that, go play, go get in trouble together, and have each other's back, and that's something Dean had in spades.
He asks Jensen in turn what would he have Sam teach his kids? Diet. Jensen can't get his kids to eat vegetables. For Halloween, he and Jared did the switch witch so the kids got to pick 10 pieces of candy, two per day, and then the rest of the candy would be left out by the front door and then the next morning there would be some toys. x
Last question! Are Jensen and Steve thinking about going out on tour or doing more concerts? Jensen doesn't know. They are wrapping up the third album they're hoping it'll be out by the end of the year, maybe in January, but he doesn't know if they'll do other shows. They don't currently have any plans to but sometimes after you get one under your belt it's hard to stop there so he's hopeful they'll do more shows. x
J2 Main Panel Phoenixcon 2022
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I've been meaning to tackle this absolute beast all fucking DAY LONG. Ganondorf's solid black Gerudo stallion.
For what it's worth, I've touched on this monster in the past, at least with regard to BotW (and I suppose TotK's) changes. Specifically, naming the probable breed of horse and matching it to Ganondorf's usual sensibilities. The Percheron is quite literally a pedigree of power. It is a strong, working breed that is described as being incredibly loyal as both a companion and noble steed... And, of course, the largest known modern horse.
Anyways, rewinding back to Ocarina of Time, I wholly believed that this horse died sometime within the seven years that Link slept. I build this argument around two observable facts in the game: we never see Ganondorf riding it after Link falls asleep, and the fact that Ingo, the new owner and manager of Lon Lon Ranch is preparing Epona to present to the Great King Ganondorf. Why would he need a new horse?
Sure, it could be said that this last argument is just a matter of Ingo showing his appreciation for Ganondorf giving the ranch to him, but... Let's think about something. After Link wakes back up, when is the next time we see Ganondorf's horse? Not at Ganondorf's side, but instead serving Ganondorf's phantom doppelgänger deep within the Forest Temple -- a stronghold of the forest that seems to attract the dead. You see, in a 1999 interview with 64Dream magazine, it's confirmed that not only those lost within the Lost Woods turn to Stalfos and look to the Forest Temple for solace, but also that the Forest Temple is indeed haunted, inhabited by the lost souls of those who wish to protect the temple from intruders. Despite the place being overgrown and flourished with plantlife, that stronghold is a place of death. This is a place where the dead go to be reclaimed by nature.
And thus, perhaps inevitably, where the spirit of Ganondorf's horse ended up as well.
(Another argument that helps me is the fact that Percherons have a lifespan of between 25 and 30 years, which does line up with the age range I can personally see Ocarina of Time Ganondorf settled in, his mid 30s and 40s. Didn't know where else to place this argument so cough coff--)
Anyways, lemme tilt the conversation a little bit away from our definitely-dead-now-totally-pure-glue horsey friend and look at Phantom Ganon from Ocarina of Time. I'm not gonna do the cliché thing and start telling you the dictionary's definition of phantom, because we all know what they are: fuckin' ghosts, right? Spooky, the worst. Luigi's fuckin' nightmare. But let's consider for a moment what happens when people die, I mean--yeah they fuckin' die. But literarily (definitely a word, google said) speaking, we often apply concepts of longing, rage, or regret, the things we never got to do or say in the wake of a loved one's death, onto the idea of a ghost: in loss, we're haunted by our own actions, or our inactions, what we said in the heat of the moment... you get the idea. Emotions are powerful, sometimes to the point that they themselves become something separate, they take on a life of their own.
Listen, I don't know if you've let a beloved pet down before? Feeling fuckin' sucks. Especially when they die in your arms.
Once Link defeats this boss, we see Phantom Ganon squirm and die in a horrible, burning display as Ganondorf berates its failure, calling it a worthless creation and threatening to banish it to an unspeakable, unknowable place that only vaguely describes a miserable existence. This is literally the only time Ganondorf addresses Link after a major story development until the climax of the game. That brat's hit a nerve, and that nerve is the ghost rider that was supposed to accompany his precious horse in the afterlife.
This wasn't a situation where Ganondorf was genuinely mad at Link for his display of strength, no, we see Ganondorf break his antagonistic character for just a moment and display something a little more personal: this creature failed him -- we don't see the spirit of the horse burn with Phantom Ganon, no all of his attention goes to to the skull-faced rider.
This "creation" was something meant to honor his dead friend, to keep the stallion happy and comfortable in death. A manifestation of Ganondorf's attachment to an old friend, perhaps, a gift given to a young Gerudo prince back during the madman's youth. His deep attachment to that horse didn't die, it simply transformed to soothe the restless, endlessly loyal creature in its new stage of life.
And ohhhh, how that thing, that worthless creature, that phantom failed him. His horse just wants to be with his rider, and yet...
#out of time. :: [out of character]#Land of Myth :: [OCARINA OF TIME]#The winds that blew across Hyrule brought something other... :: [HEADCANONS]#tw death#tw pet death
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Film Friday: The Matrix
There really wasn't any doubt in my mind over what movie I was going to cover next in my Film Friday series. I did briefly consider a number of movies, but there was really only one I could go for if I was honest with myself. When asked the dreaded question of what my favorite movie is, I often ask, as a clarifying question if they mean favorite as in the one I enjoy the most, the one I think is the most skillfully made, or the most important to me as a person. If the answer is the latter, I invariably say it is today's movie: The Matrix.
So, what is it that makes this movie so important to me? Part of it is no doubt that it came out when I was young, and fate saw to it that I managed to see this R-rated piece of heady hyperviolence a few years before I was perhaps supposed to. It was given an age rating of 15 in my country, and I first saw it as a pre-teen.
The movie blew my mind back then, there's no two ways about it. The late 90's punky rave/cyber aesthetics and the soft-focus worn-out humanity of the postapocalyptic real world, the absolutely mind-bending action scenes of hand-to-hand and gunplay combat, and special effects that defined the entire following generation of action movies. The Matrix had it all, and it was also one of the first movies I had seen that made me think.
I've always been a ruminator, prone to pondering and thoughts that may charitably be described as philosophical, and The Matrix gave me a reference point and language to talk about it to my peers. Yeah, sure, most of my classmates didn't give a single hoot about the difference between what is perceived as real and what is real, but through the tale of Thomas Anderson awakening to the falseness of his reality as his hacker alias Neo, I had an in to talk about some of that stuff. The Matrix wasn't quite the phenomenon in my neck of the woods as I'm told it was elsewhere, so my inability to care about team sports was still a major albatross around my neck of course.
Now, if The Matrix was merely important to me as a child, that would fail to account for the sheer importance this movie has to me, even to this day. A further slice of the pie can be accounted for if I were to take my nascent crushes on Keanu Reeves, it would take more than a decade to realize the nature of this, and Carrie-Anne Moss, the nature of which became apparent to me considerably earlier. There is, however, more.
The part of me that's more of a nerd about technical filmmaking stuff than emotional impact when it comes to movies wants to take this moment to talk about the pacing and structure of The Matrix. Put plainly, this is just about the perfect Hero's Journey flick. People come back to Star Wars Episode IV, but for my money it doesn't have beans on The Matrix. Neo's journey maps just about perfectly onto the threshold-crossing, helpers and mentors, challenges and temptations, death and rebirth, transformation and attonement, the entire package. While following essentially Hollywood's favorite story recipe perfectly might not seem like a great achievement, The Matrix is really the strongest argument for using the formula to lend the story profoundly mythological feel.
It is no accident, I suspect, that reading into the christian symbolism of The Matrix became such a popular topic in the aughts that it, at least according to several anecdotes, was banned in many film litteracy classes mostly because the teachers and professors were sick of reading about it. I will, however, say that the most salient reading to me is the queer one.
In short, the readings of the film has tipped somewhat from the "Kung Fu Jesus"-read that was popular in the 00's to being viewed more as a trans allegory, in part thanks to both of it's directors coming out as openly trans since its release. There certainly is much to recommend this reading, the focus on found family and self-chosen names, the antagonist's purposeful use of Neo's given name, what we would today be calling deadnaming, and so on. The ambigiously gendered character Switch was reportedly also intended to have a different gender in the matrix and out of it, as their "Residual Self Image" did not match their physical body, sadly this turned out to be too spicy for late 90's Warner Broothers and so that idea was cut.
I do agree that a lot of the parts that make The Matrix stand out in my mind can be read as inspired by the lived experiences of its writer/directors The Wachowskis. I would, however, argue that a slightly wider reading as a story of queer awakening might describe the movie more accurately than a strictly trans story, but do keep in mind I say that as a cis bi guy, so it only stands to reason that the themes of queerness would resonate more with me.
With that awareness of my own biases achknowledged though, there is something deeply queer about Neo's awakening into the real world. As Thomas Anderson, he is driven to self-destructive acts by a resounding feeling of wrongness with the world he knows. Thomas is searching, both in the fringes of what he percieves of the physical world, and the open frontier of the internet, for answers that can soothe his worries.
What answer eventually finds him changes his entire reality. As Neo, he lives a life that is more dangerous and more separated from what he used to call the real world than ever before, but it is, in a fundamental sense, real. Meaningful relationship can happen there. There's room for tenderness, for jokes, for genuine cameraderie with others who are in his situation or something very close to it. This all reminds me an awful lot of the 1990 Clive Barker film Nightbreed in this regard. Neo doesn't take to it right away, his social senses, like his eyes and muscles, are weak because he has never actually used them before, but everyone who's there with him has been through it and thus understands. Well, everyone except one asshole, but stories do need antagonists after all.
I feel like I've given this movie only the most cursory of discussions since I haven't even gotten around to discussing the movie's wuxia-inspired fight scenes, its take on fate and properchy, or the complicated legacy of a movie about outcasts fighting the system by employing truly staggering levels of violence on other people who aren't real people on the level of our heroes and as such are acceptable targets. Especially the last point feels like it needs some elaboration in an age that has made "our opponents aren't as human as we are" a popular dogwhistle when calling for violence as a political tool. Maybe I'll get to writing some on that one of these days, but for now I gotta stop putting every thought I've had about The Matrix in the last 15+ years into this post or I'll never get to the end of it.
So, with that in mind, if you haven't seen The Matrix yet, or haven't seen it in a while, give it a go. It's good, and probably gayer than you expect and/or remember.
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What do you think of a Harley/Harvey romance? Or do you think they won't just fit and better left as friends or antagonists? Do you think Harvey would be a good fit as the 'token dude' among the Gotham Sirens (Harley, Ivy , Selina)?
Honestly, I don’t know what kind of dynamic Harley and Harvey should have. You’d think they’d have some common ground to build on, between their names and their taste in split fashion! But beyond that, they’re a pair of characters I can never quite figure out when it comes to them being together as anything but antagonists, which is boring to me.
(Note: when I speak about Harley, I’m taking about my own personal understanding of her, as I prefer the character. She’s been so inconsistent ever since she became the Sexy Elmo of the DCU, to the point that she’s more a vague merchandise concept than a character. For all intents and purposes of this, I’m thinking of her as Arleen Sorkin’s Harley from BTAS for the most part)
The big fundamental difference is that Harley is all about fun, while Harvey is all about pain. The guy literally wears his agony on his face, and is a big wet blanket for any irreverent antics Harley might want to commit. It's not even a Bert-and-Ernie situation where there's a wacky character and a stoic, straight-laced character, because Harvey is just TOO serious and TOO tormented to be any fun for Harley. There's little room for give-and-take between them. There's just Harley trying to be wacky while Harvey stares at her like someone who has entirely forgotten the concept of fun.
Now, that's not to say that Two-Face can't be a fun, wacky, flamboyant character for Harley to play with! But we'd have to go back to his late Golden Age characterization, where he was entirely focused on outlandish crimes based around the number two. I could possibly imagine a Harley who encourages Harvey to be that kind of Two-Face again, doing something like... oh, let's say, robbing a circus while riding on two horses at the same time. Harley might have a great time with THAT Two-Face!
Now, one might thinking about going the opposite direction. That, instead of encouraging his worst criminal instincts, there's some potential for Dr. Harleen Quinzel to actually be a healing influence on Harvey Dent. Unfortunately, I can't stop thinking about that comic where Mark Russell had Harley "cure" Harvey of needing to listen to his coin, which not only overlooks the core reasons why the coin is so important to him (Russell just kinda treated it as an obsessive quirk and no deeper), but it also shows how Harley's professional care only resulted in making for a more deadly, unpredictable Two-Face:
(Sidenote: brilliant as Russel is as a writer, you can tell he doesn't understand Two-Face because Batman doesn't refer to him as "Harvey.")
I'd love to see Harley as someone who truly empathizes with Harvey Dent, someone who actually understands his trauma from abuse and his internal divide, but it seems impossible to consider how both characters are usually written. It would require a Harley Quinn who actually does fundamentally care about helping people and a Harvey Dent who is written as both a good man and a victim.
Which is where Stjepan Šejić's Harleen was so fascinating and frustrating alike. Harvey is a major character there, and he's miswritten as a hardline dickbag who is all about being Hard On Crime, just for the sake of clashing with the tragically-empathic Dr. Quinzel.
This Harvey Dent is not sympathetic. He's a moralizing prick who straight-up advocates for a fascist police state, including releasing Arkham inmates to show Gotham in order to unleash martial law. It's a perversion of the subplot from the 1989 comic strips, where Harvey wants to resign for unwittingly almost aiding a plot to do exactly what he tries to do in Harleen. To top it off, this Two-Face is willing to re-flip his coin to get a desired result, which is just Bad Two-Face 101.
And yet, despite ALL that, Šejić makes an impressive stab at showing how his compassionate take on Harleen is two-of-a-kind with even this jerkass Harvey Dent.
Even now, I don't know what to make of this, nor do I know what it could possibly mean for either characters. But I remain intrigued by the potential implications of two tragic characters who both lost everything and became "monsters" all in the name of trying to help others. Two irreconcilable people, bound by fate and ideals and "Ha Ha."
So no, I don't know what kind of relationship these two could ever have. I'm even more doubtful there could ever be romance between them. But in other circumstances... who can say? Maybe in some AU, there's a tormented, scarred crime boss driven by revenge and punishing the Haves (Halves?) on behalf of the Have-Nots, and he surprises even himself by bonding with a whimsical, colorful, tortured, and tragically unstable mischief-maker in pigtails.
Maybe. Just maybe that'd work.
#and while I'd love to see Harvey as the token dude in a girl gang#I think Riddler was already the perfect choice there#I have my own ideas for the dream team for Harvey to lead though#harvey dent#harleen quinzel#harley quinn#twoface#two face#batman
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Rants!
Liu Qingge/Zhuzi Lang: Both these dudes are from Scum Villain's Self Saving System, which is a chinese novel by the author MXTX (I cannot remember the full name im sorry).
Liu Qingge is known as a 'war god' and he's, to put it lightly, Fightsexual. Boy's got IQ specifically geared towards getting into and out of fights. He was one of the strongest characters in the story (like, 3rd strongest if you dont count the protagonist's dad who was uhm 'retired' by the start of the story lol). He's also Incredibly Princely Pretty.
Zhuzhi Lang is a half-snake demon with self-esteem issues and can turn into a large snake, and can also probably give Liu Qingge a good fight! ngl I just love Liu Qingge and I ship over half a dozen people with him. Zhuzhi Lang is a top contender though because he's a sweet guy, can totally get into vore, can give Liu Qingge a challenge, and also probably has 2 dicks-
Naruseku: Yeah i can gurantee this is the only submission for them for Some Reason. Because no one ships them. Like i have searched the internet far and wide and turn up with like. Close to literal zero. And here's the thing, this is entirely illogical. They work together in this evil group and their deals are essentially that they're. Unhappy people. At first you think they're just annoying but actually they're annoying snd Extremely Miserable. In silly ways, they are such losers and so cringefail. I could write an essay on both of them individually, but basically i love how their focus isn't on being better people, it is on being happier. Individually.
The show is divided into clear parts of who is the main antagonist at the time which really makes you FEEL how unhappy they each are. They're a group but they're also not bc they choose to be unhappy ad get on each other's nerves about it and that's a prime focus of their characters. Anyway, these two make me insane, they spend a lot of time together during the middle part of the show, bc the first villain is gone so now it's just the two of them and their leader who isn't doing much yet. After this part, one of them, narcistoru, is defeated so he's gone for the time being. But these two, they hate each other SOOOOOOOO much it's insane. This is because Narcistoru is an annoying bitch and Secretoru hates that. And they're both generally insane people with dumb beliefs and issues that they view wrongly. It's just so glorious to see them annoy each other so much. Post Narcistoru's main screen time, he gets his conclusion episode. He escapes from prison and Secretoru is supposed to retrieve him. But like not because they need him, in fact, they absolutely did not care that he was arrested because none of these people give a flying fuck about each other. It's just that he wasn't supposed to be a risk. Secretoru and Narcistoru have a rather petty and hilarious fight. Because you see. Now they don't have to get along. They are not on the same side. So the hostility is really thriving here. In fact, she manages to capture him, and while fighting the pretty cures (magical girls), hensays some annoying shit and she goes "actually i changed my mind" and shoves him off this rock in order for the monster (they always summon one) to fucking kill him. Like she tries to murder him in cold blood soley because he's annoying and this was entirely inevitable actually. She wants that twink obliterated. They don't bring this up again in the finale when they're both in prison. They just. Kind of hang out now. They've reached a level of tolerance.
And you may think "why do you ship this" LOOK. THEIR INTERACTIONS. ARE SO FUNNY. IT'S JUST. A VERY FUN SHIP. BECAUSE THEY'RE HILARIOUS. The hostility is so great and i think it would be neat if they had some t4t hatesex. It would solve nothing. They mske each other so much worse. But it would be very hot. Also secretoru has a general "can you shut the fuck up" attitude towards him. I don't even technically ship it but i ENJOY the ship.
And yet. I am so alone in this which is insane because i definitely expected ship content for them even before i actually wanted it myself.
But no, of course people ship Narcistoru with actual fifteen year olds. Like so much. And there is ZERO content for the ship with the other Actual Adult that he interacts with on a regular basis and who he has a fantastic and entertaining and INTERESTING dynamic with. So basically, i am not just sad, i am also SO SALTY. They are so insanely rarepair despite being an absolute epic duo. Awesome crackship, 10/10, literally comedy
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Megumu Iizunamaru
How I feel about this character: I have mixed feelings, honestly. Expanding the tengu society via the introduction of a new character from a different social stratum is very welcome. We’ve been sitting on heaps of tengu background from the print works since the early Windows days and it felt like it’s just going to be a way to make it easier for fans to come up with ocs. I’m pleasantly surprised that was not the case. I think her personality is fun and it was refreshing to have an antagonist with multiple actual minions again after WBaWC and HSiFS where almost every character operates on her own.
However, I can’t help but think she was sort of robbed of the grandeur she could’ve had if she had more spotlight in the game instead of sharing it with Chimata. Especially since the latter is… hardly thrilling, probably a candidate for one of my least favorite Windows final bosses, with a design which looks like that old meme poking fun at ZUN’s art. That’s beside the point, though. I also think Megumu's own design is missing something. More than once I’ve seen fanart giving her a more pronounced night sky theme, which works well. Same with leaning more into her namesake’s highly distinctive iconography.
All around, from my perspective Megumu is a promising character who however for now failed to quite reach the standard for modern Touhou big names, despite having the potential for that.
All the people I ship romantically with this character: I already covered this topic in the Tsukasa and Momoyo asks.
My non-romantic OTP for this character: there is evidently great potential in her ending interactions with Kanako. A funny thing to note that's tangentially related is that in the middle ages both Suwa Daimyojin and Izuna Gongen developed origin myths which inolved them arriving from India in the distant past.
My unpopular opinion about this character: the story in UM would be better off without Chimata and with Megumu getting the bump to stage 6 and a more elaborate design to match (Tsukasa is functionally the spiritual equivalent of the typical stage 5 boss anyway). Granted, not sure to what degree this is an unpopular opinion because frankly through the past two years the only time when I’ve seen Chimata brought up on my social media feed it boiled down to some variety of high caliber “horny on main” incident, while I do see Megumu and Momoyo, let alone Tsukasa, semi-regularly.
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: honestly would like to see her interact with Okina, she's probably the best character we have atm to use to go further with what is already implied in Aya's route in HSiFS.
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TPFFIB Pt 2: the characters minus Kite and the Dead King
Starting with Kite's friends, then the P.o.P Squad, then the smaller antagonist, and finally Lime & Candi
The Og's (Kite's friends)
Odie:
Odie can be best described as being in between a rock and hard place, for a lot of his life he was stuck being the unwilling spy for the Dragon King and was expected to be totally devoted and loyal to the Dragon King, and he was miserable for a long time, until he was chosen to represent dragons at a school that seeked to make Dragons, Griffins, Unicorns, and Sphinx's more united as a collective unit. Here he met Kite, Carlos, and Trix, and they all hit it off becoming great friends. He went from being an insecure and hesitant dragon, to being a more-confident and brave dragon.
Side note: Odie has a jack-bat-rabbit friend named Jupitar whose basically his best friend.
Carlos:
Carlos is probably the most innocent minded of the group, somewhat because he spent almost 95% of his childhood inside, with the other 5% being when went to parties or something like that. Regardless when he was picked to go to the integration school he was over the moon and was so excited, and rightfully so, Odie, Trix, and Kite were all kind to him and they all had fun together. Being Sphinx he also had the power to control sand, which meant he could use his powers to empress his friends and show off what he can do. He also the youngest in the group so he has an air nativity to him
Trix:
Trix is by far the thinker of the group, she's incredibly smart and socially strong. Also being a Unicorn she has a bit of magic up her sleeve, but she mostly just uses it for picking stuff up and blast attacks. Now, despite being otherwise great socially and academically, she is not super strong magic wise, despite white unicorns being believed to supposed to be the most magically inclined. Which doesn't apply to Trix, because of that Trix focused more on raw strength that house's and equines naturally have. Which makes comes off as the mom/leader of the group. Thanks in no part to her kindness, loyalty, and bravery.
and we all know Kite, a pink griffin the only one in the group without any kind of special power. Though she is really fast, but so is every griffin.
Pongo the two-legged bat:
Pongo originally came to Golden Glade after hearing about P.o.P and he saw it as a great opportunity to help people and show off his skill. So he moved and quickly was showered in admiration and acceptance from the creatures of Pactor, he also became friends with 2 other P.o.P cadets, Beat-Bop Bubble and Scratchy, Beat-Bop Bubble especially as the two of them were very supportive and loving of one another (mostly because they liked a lot of the same movies, and had a lot in common). As for Scratchy, while Pongo was somewhat scared of him, he still made a point to be nice and treat him the same as anyone else.
(best drawing showing off their relationship :P)
Beat-Bop Bubble:
Beat-Bop Bubble was born in Neon Night-Zone, a place in the ocean almost entirely populated by Synth-c-horses, magically inclined neon seahorse's who can channel energy and magic into power magic blasts, but they mostly either don't use it or do use it but for parties. Beat-Bop Bubble is no different, joining the military when he was old enough, but was transferred to Golden Glade because his government owed Ancient Feather a "favor" and chose the most promising cadet Beat-Bop Bubble to become part of P.o.P which he was semi-cool with until he figured that he wasn't be reassigned but rather that his people were forced to give up someone promising. While at P.o.P Beat-Bop Bubble would become great friends with Pongo and the two became almost inseparable. With them both even resigning from P.o.P later on together once learning the truth about Ancient Feathers. Leaving Kite, who was stuck with the protection of a city that lacked a government and ruler, and abandoning Scratchy who was now the only member of P.o.P left since Kite became a substitute leader and then resigning to be a detective to get closer with the people. When Beat-Bop Bubble and Pongo did go home, they were pleased as punch to find that the Jungle Pongo came from, and Neon Nigh-Zone were actually very close to each other, so they stayed close distance friends.
Scratchy:
Scratchy is very scrappy, tuff, even mangy, and maybe a little feral. He's very protective of his friends and has no problem attack bad people or people who want to harm him or his friends. But no one really picks up on this because all they really see of him is a crazy killer robot, who might as well be in a zoo then on the battlefield. Pongo is nice to him though, which he dose appreciate. Later on when P.o.P is in shambles, Kite comes around to Scratchy and finally considers then recognizes Scratchy's loyalty and companionship. He still loves to thrash and tear people apart though, he even kills a giant manifestation of prejudice that was threatening to tear apart the people of Golden Glade (what a guy).
Ashes Elementa:
The only other griffin Kite meets and who works for P.o.P, she is a walking mystery, the only thing Kite knows is that she's one of the 5 elemental griffins, with her being the elemental of fire, but that for some reason she's here and grumpy. While she dose hang out with the group outside of work, but she never really talks to anyone.
(FUN FACT: Ashes is based off a very very old character I don't remeber the name of, who was basically an evil sun/fire griffin who wanted to roast the earth like rotisserie chicken), The only interest she has is writing songs, singing, and poetry. Which everyone learned on a night shift that they all pretended was a sleepover, when they shared interests.
Finally, we have Ancient Feather herself, the myth, the wo-MAN, the legend.
Ancient Feather was the great protector of a city known as Pactor, and had protected it for many years alone. In her later years, she began to become frail and couldn’t keep up with her duties. Despite being immortal, she could still die from injuries, and her guardian magic could only keep her on the top of her game for so long. So, she decided to take new action, when the citizens of Pactor were ready to elect a new leader, Ancient Feather cancelled the election, informing the citizens that she would in fact be the leader of Pactor from that moment on, and reassured her people that she would not fall short of her people that there would no longer be a need for temporary leaders. Explaining that having watched over Pacotor and Golden Glade for as long as she has, she was the only reasonable choice, but said they could still have a council to run the small towns.
Her next course of action was to make a task force, an army of skilled fighters, medics, and guards to take her place. Soon she had created a nearly unstoppable army. Focused on one goal, to protect Pactor, and keep it strong. Just like Ancient Feather had for nearly 100 years.
But while she may have been the perfect ruler for pactor, at her core she was a controlling conniving conjurer, manipulating many, and starting wars just to gain more power. Or as she thought of it, making a better tomorrow for the people of Pactor, meanwhile the places conjured usually lost a lot of there resource to Pactor and were left to weak to rebel. Every conjured kingdom feed into Pactor and didn't get as much back as they were giving.
However, Ancient Feather would be greatly humbled by a kingdom that she greatly underestimated. The Quartet Kingdoms, a large kingdom comprised of four smaller kingdoms and territories each with one unique species each. The rulers of this kingdom, weren't about to be stepped on all over by some big ass immortal bird and her army. So they fought with everything they had, and after 9 days and nights of fighting, King Blitzen of the Unicorns, was given permission by the others to do something drastic and unforgiving: to curse Ancient Feather. He did just that, blasting Ancient feather with a spell powerful enough to strip Ancient Feather of all her guardian magic leaving her a powerless immortal, forcing her to flee, the four rulers and The Quartet Kingdom celebrated the defeat. Sealing Ancient Feathers powers to the kingdoms she conjured with them, so that her power may be used by the kingdoms to rebuild and get back on their feet.
AND THAT IS IT FOR TODAY, I'll do the villains next, and then one last post for Lime & Candi.
See he's mad at me now because I'm only half way done, SUCK IT UP SCRATCHY Jesus...
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Hey, I just wanted to say I resonated with a lot of what you’ve posted on psychiatry and the industry in general. Can I ask if there are any book recommendations or other resources you might have? :)
absolutely!! i’ll preface this by saying i’m a sort of erratic information consumer so the big obvious people i should have read by now like thomas szasz i’ve not gotten to yet, but the books ‘mad in america’ by robert whitaker and ‘crazy like us: the globalization of the american psyche’ by ethan watters were extremely influential. ‘mad in america’ gave rise to a fantastic blog and podcast of the same name that covers a lot of different issues relating to modern psychiatry, particularly those related to the over-prescription of psychotropic drugs and psychiatric abuse. if you’re a documentary person, the RT documentary ‘overpill’ is fantastic, about the toll of widespread psychiatric drug prescriptions on individuals living with the consequences of longterm use. ‘money talks’ is another great documentary, more of a broad critique of the medical industrial complex that applies heavily to psychiatry
this one may make me sound nuts, but i’m also of the opinion that you won’t have a well-informed critique of western psychiatry unless you dig into the history of both eugenics and the decades worth of human experiments conducted by the US government under the MKULTRA projects. ‘poisoner in chief’ by stephen kinzer gets into some of this. ewan cameron’s mind control experiments on canadian citizens are a good case study, cbc’s brainwashed podcast is an accessible introduction to the topic. the aforementioned ‘mad in america’ lays out historically how the eugenics movement and psychiatry developed alongside and legitimated one another. psychiatry’s primary use to the ruling class is inextricably historically bound in the promotion of eugenics, suppression of dissidents, and development of propaganda/advertising techniques
on the propaganda/advertising front, watching the adam curtis documentary ‘the century of the self’ is one of those experiences that absolutely shocked me to my core the first time i saw it, absolutely essential viewing. touches on how psychiatric techniques were used to mold human beings into consumers of cheap, mass produced goods at the extreme detriment to our mental health and social stability
on the gender critical side of things i love the ‘gender: a wider lens’ podcast, hosted by two very pleasant adolescent therapists promoting an institutional critique of the gender identity phenomenon
marx’s theory of alienation is at the core of my opinions re: psychiatry and mental illness as well, and everything i read about psychiatry i read with it in mind. to put it loosely, marx said that what distinguishes us from all other species is our capacity for creative labor. we use labor to manipulate nature not only to satisfy our immediate physical needs, but also to express ourselves, derive pleasure, and develop socially/culturally. that impulse to create is an essential part of our psychological makeup as a species, it comes naturally to us and is the engine that allows our species to creatively adapt to our environment across time and space. when we’re not able to do that our psychological wellbeing suffers. class society divorces labor from that which makes us human by creating an antagonistic, estranged relationship between the workers and what they create. the worker is transformed from a creative producer, an enthusiastic participant in the collective construction of society whose labor they see the direct benefit of reflected in their environment, to a commodity themself. the affirmation, wealth, and status relative to the value of their labor is turned over to someone outside of themself-- the master, the landlord, the boss-- while they are reduced to an animal-like state of laboring only to satisfy their immediate survival needs
labor then becomes a source of dread, an act of degradation you do only because you’re forced to by someone with power over you, and as a result the worker engages in less of the life-affirming creative labor that makes us human and instead retreats to unfulfilling short term creature comforts during their personal time. we become less intellectually and creatively engaged with the world when we have no ability to see ourselves reflected in it via our labor. that inability to see ourselves as viscerally connected to the world also alienates us from the rest of our species, and as a social animal that alienation from the collective makes us anxious, aggressive, and self-centered. all of the social problems caused by the increasing concentration of wealth into the hands of a smaller and smaller number of elites compounds over the generations, which is a big part of why we seem to get crazier, more violent, and lazier in proportion with the economic polarization that defines capitalist development. here is a great webpage with links to marxist theory on the subject of alienation
i hope this helps! feel free to message me about anything you come across while reading or thoughts you have, i really appreciate hearing what other people have to say on topics like this. that applies to anyone reading this, too. messages are always welcome! thanks for the ask and kind words
edited to add-- this TED talk by chelsea roff was a massive game changer for me re: my own mental illness recovery, made me think radically differently about mental health. it’s about how labeling mental illness can prevent recovery. i haven’t seen it in a while and am going to probably rewatch it now
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I can't sleep at the moment but I want to give a big shout out to Skara from The Owl House 🦉
Minor spoilers but still gonna tag it ///
In my opinion she got a nice off camera arc, she went from being a bully to what I imagine (giving her role in Any sport in a storm and For the future) is a better person and a reliable second in command/teammate
Why? Here's my thoughts:
In season one she's not likeable really, she's more of a follower but as seen in "Something ventured, Someone framed" seems like she actually was friendly with other kids at Hexside aside from Boscha and the Grudgby team, then in Enchanting Grom Fright we see her like a normal teen acting cute (and funny) with her crush/date.
Side note, she was a bystander in both Understanding Willow and Wing it like witches so we see that she's not really a good person yet but seems more of a kid just getting by which I'm okay with in a way, she wasn't a full on teen antagonist like Boscha but we still get some hints of her being a little neutral at best, and a bystander at worst (which is not a good trait but I do feel like she grew a lot during the show)
Then season two comes in and during ASIAS, she seems to be on good terms with Willow and Gus and even gets a chance to be a part of the Emerald Entrails, her interactions with the rest were pretty chill and seemed like everything was okay between the team (aside from the conflict with Hunter of course), in Labyrinth Runners we catch a glimpse of her being nicer to her classmates, teammates, Hunter and everyone in general, she is a background character but I appreciate the grow we see on her, plus her design is really cool so I think all of that is why she caught my attention this way without "stealing" the show (Luz is my favorite character and this holds up till now 😤💜), finally, during the day of unity we see her helping out mainly Jerbo and Matt (I can't spell his last name sorry) and it looks like she doesn't really talk to Boscha anymore, then in the finale when THAT happens, we see her and Matt look through the window, they were looking at the infection like thing Belos covered the island with but I think they both looked really worried and maybe even got a feeling something bad happened to someone, maybe they didn't catch it was Luz or maybe they did because light is kind of her signature spell/imagery, but I saw a lot of compassion in her eyes, then in the credits finally, we see her seemingly teaching kids about bard magic which is another great touch on her character.
So my point is, Skara seems to have had a nice arc even if we didn't see it on camera and that makes her one of my favorite characters outside of the main ones (the owl fam, the hexquad, the nocedas, the cats etc)
Maybe this little ramble doesn't make any sense and I apologize if that's the case, I just really wanted to write this because it caught my attention and I really like her for it all in the end.
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What pooh musical lampwick?
Lurking around in my tags, were we? ;) But really, thank you so much for the ask 💘
So, (Pinocchio) 'Il Grande Musical' is a 2003 musical telling the story of Pinocchio (obviously). The songs in the musical are all written by the band Pooh.
(Link to the musical here)
(Link to the album here)
I'll be completely honest right off the bat here and say that I don't feel overly qualified to talk about this adaptation, purely because my Italian is...not that good. Meaning that, when I'm sat here watching an adaptation with zero subtitles of any kind, I'm not gonna understand very much of the dialogue.
Despite that, I have seen watched it twice now :')
Anyway, Lampwick in this adaptation is really great. There is so much dancing and running around all over the place (it IS a musical, after all) that really makes him feel like a kid. Idk he's a really fun character in this adaptation.
Not to mention, he has an amazing rapport with Pinocchio. And a very genuine friendship with him, which is something several versions (including, imo, both Disney versions of the movie) seem to have trouble with. There's no point in giving Lampwick the same role as the Cat and the Fox. Because?? the Cat and the Fox are already right there! They try to con Pinocchio, try to lead him astray, because they're villains and that's their role, end of story.
Lampwick is Pinocchio's peer. I'm not saying that he can't be antagonistic or that he can't be a bad influence (he is a bad influence..) but he and Pinocchio are BOTH victims. I'm directly quoting my good friend @naivesilver when I say this: Lampwick is Pinocchio but without the plot armour. That's why del Toro's Pinocchio is such a refreshing take on his character. Because we see how both of them are manipulated by the adults around them, and we see both of them attempt to fight back against that.
ANYWAY. The Pooh musical Lampwick doesn't have quite that flavour of depth, but he IS a genuinely sympathetic character! The musical very clearly shows him as as much of a victim as Pinocchio is (see: the entire donkey transformation + aftermath bit).
Plus, both the sympathy towards the character AND the strength of the friendship between the two is shown in the scene just after that when they sing a duet together about friendship! (If you want to watch just that scene, you can find it on youtube here and don't @ me about the donkey masks. I know they're horrible but also I unironically love them )
Finally, this is also one of the only adaptations where Lampwick survives at the end. So kudos to them and the 1996 Pinocchio for THAT <3
idk I really rate this musical and especially their Lampwick. It's not my absolute favourite or anything, but definitely more worth watching than at least, like, 15 other adaptations that I can name off the top of my head.
#I rambled a bit much here SORRY#I haven't seen this for months now but <333#I just think it's neat#asks#anon#pinocchio tag#lampwickcore
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My Ranking of the MCU TV Shows So far
So, with Ms. Marvel having wrapped up last week, I figured I’d see where it lands on my ranking of the MCU Disney+ shows before we get She-Hulk (and, uh, I Am Groot, I guess) in a month.
These are completely subjective personal preferences that no one asked for, but I felt like writing them out. So, ranked from least-favorite to favorite, these were my thoughts:
(spoilers for all shows)
7. Loki
I was somehow, like, not engaged with Loki at all. I’m fine with Loki as a character, but this show felt like it was just running solely on name recognition and the popularity of the character rather than because it had anything interesting to do or say about said character. Loki gets dissociated from the time stream in Endgame due to stealing the Tesseract that the time-traveling Avengers were trying to steal, and then gets picked up by the time and space police for violating the timeline. But instead of destroying him like they usually do with variants, they decide, “Hey, what if we made Loki a time and space detective working under this agency? That totally is a natural continuation of his plot and character arc until now.” Then Loki meets a female variant of himself and they go around doing... stuff. And then he meets an alligator version of himself, isn’t that funny? For the whole thing, I couldn’t stop asking, “What in this story necessitates its main character be Loki? This role could have been filled by anyone since it in no way explores anything fundamental about him or his journey.”
And so naturally, it’s the only live-action show so far confirmed to be getting a second season.
6. What If...?
This show had a couple of episodes that I really liked, including the first two with Captain Carter and T’Challa Star Lord, and the Doctor Strange one. The rest of the episodes were pretty forgettable and gave me the same feeling as Loki: “What are they trying to say here?” For alternate universe stuff like this, I think it’s strongest where we get to see how the same character behaves when put in a situation different from the one that happened in the original timeline, to see what they’re really made of. Some episodes managed that well. Others were just “Here’s a random scenario that we’ve inserted Avengers characters into and nobody is behaving like themselves.” Pretty much the only thing learned from this series is that Tony always dies and never trust Hank Pym.
And naturally, it’s the bottom two on my list that are confirmed for a season 2.
5. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
This one and the next two are actually fairly closely tied, and all three solidly above the previous two, but I needed to order them somehow, so at least for today, this is the order. Unlike Loki which never felt like anything in it necessitated Loki’s presence specifically, this series revolved around who should take up the mantle of Captain America after Steve Rogers’s retirement. So this is a story that specifically needs Sam and Bucky. And then the Captain America mantle ends up being passed to some other unknown guy, John Walker, after Sam and Bucky are both hesitant to take it. And from there we get a story of what it means to be Captain America and what kind of person deserves to wield the shield. Which is great, I liked that, and there was a lot of talk on race and discussing how Black soldiers were treated. Isaiah Bradley was absolutely the best part of this series. Unfortunately, the series mostly suffered from some fairly bland protagonists who didn’t become interesting until Zemo showed up. Yes, the forgettable antagonist from Captain America: Civil War was the most interesting man in the room here. Coupled with some antagonists in the Flag Smashers who started out strong and relatable, then all of a sudden shot themselves in the foot out of nowhere because the writers were like, “Wait, we can’t have the viewers actually siding with these guys, they need to do some undeniably evil stuff for no reason”, and then their motives just fell apart.
4. Ms. Marvel
So, I’m a sucker for family dynamic stories that don’t revolve around toxic familial dysfunction, so this was already pretty wholesome going in. That and Iman Vellani wasn’t even acting, she just is Kamala Khan in real life. But this was a series that while the parents were still treated as obstacles to Kamala embracing her powers and her love for superheroes, they were never portrayed as the bad guys. Pretty much everything involving the family, the wedding, the Partition of India backstory, was just really enjoyable to watch. This was another series where we were given a story from a cultural angle that was different from what we often see, which was refreshing and fun. I also enjoy the “street level” stories from superhero universes to see how the regular civilians live in a world where superheroes and monsters and aliens are real. This show’s main failing was, again, its villains. It tried to give us too many, from Department of Damage Control to Clan Destine, and then not really know what to do with either of them or what their motives were. But Kamala will be back in The Marvels next year, as the post-credits teaser indicated, so I can’t wait to see how she fangirls over actually meeting her idol.
3. Moon Knight
Steven Grant is a precious bean and must be protected at all costs. That’s it. That’s Moon Knight.
In seriousness, though, I enjoyed how this series tackled the issue of dissociative identity disorder, not just as a gimmick, but really delving into why he has it in the first place and why it manifests the way it does. I also really loved the directing of the personality shifts, and Oscar Isaac just nails everything in this. He probably gives the best performance out of all of the shows. And I think the villain in this show is probably the best out of all the shows, too, in that his motive remains consistent throughout and that he is a valid and relevant threat. There’s also the mystery element running through it as to why everything is happening that gets revealed in pieces. So why is it only #3? Well, it goes back to the first line. Steven Grant single-handedly carries this show, while pretty much everyone else in it is meh. And that still is a tribute to Oscar Isaac where he can play such a compelling character AND such a dull character at the same time in the same scene.
2. Hawkeye
Hey, you know how I mentioned earlier how I’m all for wholesome family shit, and now there’s Christmas hijinx mixed in and general goofiness that doesn’t detract from the underlying serious story? Sign me up for that. Hawkeye was one of those Avengers who was always in the background who I was like, “I guess he’s all right” about, and this show recognizes that and runs with it. To me he was always like the put-upon Avengers dad who keeps wanting to retire but those damn kids can’t keep the world saved for five goddamn minutes! And now he might be missing Christmas with his family because of it, aaagh! There’s some phenomenal directing in the middle couple episodes (Bert and Bertie, get them in more stuff now), and there was serious discussion around Clint’s hearing loss and how it affected his everyday life. As someone with a deaf family member who lost his hearing at an advanced age and never learned to sign, the scene of writing the conversation out on notepads was super relatable to me and also heartbreaking. Then we had Yelena brought in from Black Widow to have some fun banter with Kate Bishop. This one will probably become a yearly Christmas tradition.
1. Wandavision
Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel had wholesome silly family shit, Moon Knight had a respectful look into devastating untreated mental health issues, and Wandavision has all of that and more. It has that wholesome exterior that’s hiding something dark, but the darkness isn’t just there for shock value, it is something that is naturally to be expected after what happened to Wanda in Infinity War and Endgame. The creative set pieces and setting aren’t used as just a gimmick, but as an allegory for Wanda’s coping mechanisms as she attempts to process her grief after losing her entire support structure. And then Vision is just my comfort character archetype: strong, calm, intelligent, humble, and most of all gentle and kind. The guy who’ll just sit with you and let you talk out your problems without being judgmental. Anyone who’s had someone like that in their life would be devastated to lose them, especially so unfairly. Where this show starts to falter is when it tries to rein itself back into tried and true MCU format, with a finale that, while still having some excellent emotional and philosophical beats such as Vision defeating his alter ego diplomatically, it does still devolve into a CG explosion-fight that didn’t really need to happen. And as charming as Kathryn Hahn was as a secondary character, much like Loki I’m not certain she can carry her own story, with Agatha: House of Harkness set to air in the next year or two. And don’t get me started on how Wandavision elegantly handled a woman having a mental breakdown without simply resorting to the “crazy emotional woman” trope, and then Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness... didn’t.
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Anne v. Andrias: The Battle of Hearts
“Andrias Leviathan, Lord of Amphiba, Peacekeeper of 1000 years and first of his name” was introduced in “The Plantars Check-In” only 45% into the show's run, and he wasn’t known to be the main antagonist to Anne until True Colors pretty much 70% into the show. But with True Colors and the rest of Season 3, it was clear that these two were destined to fight one another. And even with so little screentime between each other, the Amphibia Crew did it, they made a Hero-Villain dynamic that was so great that it rivals some of the best, from Batman and the Joker to Luke and Vader I truly believe Anne and Andrias belong in those ranks, and Anne v.Andrias demonstrates this amazingly.
To understand why this fight matters for Anne and Andrias it’s best to understand their character arcs until this point. Andrias being either friend or foe, was up to debate ever since he was teased in “Marcy at the Gates”, while he came off as this fun-loving king there was a lot we didn’t know about him or Amphibia’s history, that clearly, something was up. By the time TC came around, it became clear where he stood for our heroes, becoming our Main Antagonist going forward. It also established, after seeing Andrias’ backstory, parallels between him and Anne. Both characters we’re betrayed by their two best friends and seemed to be the heart/glue of their friendships. Season 3 has been expanding on their parallels, with the episodes like “The Core and the King” showing Andrias, just like Anne, had a toxic influence controlling his life, that being Aldrich/The Core. After all of this Andrias has chosen a path of resentment, self-hatred, and isolation, but even with Anne experiencing similar things, Anne has chosen a different path.
By the end of season 1, Anne has learned to understand the toxic mentalities she and her friends have, Anne breaks away from those mentalities and starts to define herself in Season 2, and Season 3 is all about Anne struggling to be her best self. 3A was great for Anne's development because it gave her some time to build herself back up after TC. Her time on Earth taught her to trust others again from characters like Dr.Jan and her parents, opening her heart once more and allowing others to support her. Anne has decided to forgive instead of resenting her friends, she chooses to look at their friendship with nuance, choosing to forgive Sasha and Marcy as she did with HopPop, instead of hating them. Finally, Anne has a chosen path of self-love thanks to her time with the Plantars, realizing the truth, that she is someone who is just as capable and talented as Sasha and Marcy, and she shouldn’t be treated like crap by anybody because she is someone worth defending and has value.
The reason why this fight matters so much for Anne’s story is that all her time in Amphibia, all the lessons she’s learned of self-love, forgiveness, and trust, must be proven to be the right path. In order to do that Anne must defeat, the antithesis of this path, Andrias. Andrias is Anne's worst self come to life, and defeating him, proves Anne’s lessons and journey in Amphibia were all worth it. So with all that out the way, I’ll be dissecting this battle into 3 major segments:
The Build-Up, The Clash of Philosophies, and The Letter.
The Build-Up:
One of the things that makes this fight stand out to me as Anne’s true final battle, is how her antagonist finally starts to respect her. Everyone from Mr.X, Sasha, and even Andrias(which he admits here) all underestimated Anne. Sasha in Reunion, is always seeing herself as above Anne, even when they have to fight each other Sasha is always looking down on her, and every time she does this she’s severely punished for it. In Season 3 everyone from her parents, Sasha, and everyone in Amphibia recognizes that she is this awesome person who deserves their respect and attention, and now all that comes full circle here. Andrias is not making the mistake everyone else, including himself, did, he is recognizing that Anne is his equal and he is not going to hold back. This is demonstrated by this being the only fight Anne ever had a hard time when using her Super form. All of this truly makes this feel like Anne’s true final battle.
The Music when Anne comes down, this badass orchestrated version(here’s the track) of her theme is, SOOOO GOOOD, seriously it makes it sound like she came into the final boss room, the music for this whole fight is so well done gotta give props to TJ Hill, he knocked the whole score for this episode right out of the park.
The Clash of Philosophies:
This part of the fight has Andrias and Anne have a bit more of a back and forth dialog-wise, something we haven’t really gotten since Froggy Little Christmas. The crew uses this time to the fullest, and it’s one of the greatest aspects of this fight and something Amphibia’s biggest battles haven't had since Reunion. Before we get to this 2nd part Andrias says:
“When you walked into my throne I underestimated you. A scruffy little girl with one shoe and leaves in her hair, yet underneath it all, a true warrior…such a brilliant deception”
Anne:
“Speak for yourself, you went from Santa Claus to Supervillain pretty quick there”
This dialogue exchange is the start of both characters starting to get one another, with both of them realizing to there is a lot more to each other than means the eye. Anne was once considered a goofy, selfish, pushover, who would just follow anybody, but turned out to be this strong, selfless, hero. Andrias who to all of Amphibia was a peace-loving King is revealed to be a conquering tyrant ready to do anything to achieve his goals. The characters are understanding each other, and seeing themselves in one another and it leads to the second part of this fight Andrias says:
“Why fight it Anne…everything you love will eventually crumble, your world, your friendships.”
Andrias is trying to project this toxic mindset onto Anne, which isn’t too different from what he tried to do to all of the girls in True Colors. From him betraying Marcy and telling the girls the truth, Andrias is trying to break the friendship between the girls, and dropping Sprig trying to prove his point that friendships and opening one's heart is weakness. However, Anne who's secure in who she is bounces back saying:
“So what, I’m supposed to give up, stop feeling things, like YOU!”
With that Anne has read Andrias like a book, without even needing to know his whole backstory, she is able to realize Andrias is a man who’s chosen isolation, resentment, and closing his heart to everyone, something Anne almost did in 3A. I think this is the reason Anne pities Andrias instead of hating him for his actions, she can see a bit of herself in him. Anne has struck a nerve with Andrias and we get the K-Pop scene one of my favorites.
What I love about the K-Pop scene narratively is how well it proves Andrias’ mindset all wrong. Anne has chosen to open her heart and let others support her. If Anne had never told the truth to her parents and had handled all her responsibilities on her own as she was willing to do at the beginning of 3A, she wouldn’t have had the huge amount of support she has now. With all Anne's family cheering her on and Mr.X being able to provide the loudspeakers. It proves that Anne opening her heart, and not isolating herself as Andrias did was the right call, and gives her just the boost she needs to keep fighting.
The animation and music, from how Anne instantly powers up once the beat drops, to how smooth the animation is once Anne starts whaling on Andrias, the badass transition to Sasha’s part of the fight, everything is just done so beautifully, shout out to the animators here they did such an awesome job bringing this scene to life. The use of the setting throughout this whole fight is awesome, from Anne crashing into the buildings and glass, or their collisions creating shockwaves across L.A.
The Letter:
Anne is putting Andrias on the backfoot and he just can’t keep up, it looks like Anne will finally defeat her tyrannical opposite. That’s until her powers start to run out, something Andrias was banking on. Sprig desperately tries to find something to help out Anne and drops Leif’s Letter, with Mr.X being able to decode it. I love that Mr.X’s glasses can read the letter, it’s a great way of making Mr.X’s inclusion even more central and just pretty clever by the writers(also Sprig wearing Mr.X’s goofy nerdy glasses is really funny).
So Sprig using one of the Herons they were able to mind control and comes up to the building to read Leif’s Letter. Leif’s Letter is pretty much the whole message of the show, that change whether it be in relationships or just life as a whole is ok. It can be tough and scary because you don’t know what’s going to happen next, but that is ok, and embracing change is so much better than constantly clinging to the past. Leif’s Letter is there to finally give Andrias closure, letting him know she still loved him even after she took the box, and wanted the best for her friends. Leif wants Andrias to open his heart to others even after being burned before, and that’s ok for this friendship to end, that just because it’s over doesn’t mean it didn’t have value, and to realize that the Core/Aldrich’s mindset is toxic and wrong and to break away from it. Leif’s Letter is essentially Anne’s mindset just said out loud, while Anne proves this path is healthy by defeating Andrias, and Andrias realizes this himself through the letter.
Andrias after 1000 years without closure, finally breaks down, regretting all the choices he’s done throughout this whole show. Darcy gets wind of this during her fight with Sasha and starts to torture Andrias, spewing the same toxic mindset his dad did, saying that the Core is the only relationship he’ll ever have/need and can’t ever escape. Andrias reluctantly gets back up, and it almost looks like Andrias is going to go back to his old ways like Anne almost did in Reunion, but he looks down at the letter and finally follows his heart, and listens to what it’s been telling him for years, to end this conflict once and for all and he opens the mech suit letting Anne commit the finishing blow.
The Amphibia Crew was able to make Anne and Andrias work by not just working with the parallels established between these 2 in TC, but expanding upon them. They weren't just two people who were betrayed by their friends, they were 2 people with low self-esteem, and a toxic view of friendship imbued by the toxic relationships they had with others. While Andrias decides to stay within this mindset for the rest of his life, Anne doesn't. Anne choices to embrace change, to choose the healthy path, and proves it all to be worth it by defeating what she could've become. This fight is Awesome!
Thank You so much for reading, I really hope I made the case for why Anne and Andrias deserved to be in the ranks of iconic Hero and Villain dynamics. This one took a long damn time to write hopefully it didn't feel like me just going HOLY SHIT THAT WAS AWESOME the whole time lol. This essay was originally posted on Reddit but I'm slowly bringing all my essays here on Tumblr. Anyways, if you like this let me know in the comments, feedback always puts a smile on my face. Have a Great Day!
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