#my failmarriage beloveds
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Tomshiv marriage explain in semi unintelligible emoji terms
pre s1: T➡️➡️❤️⬅️⬅️S
s1-s2: T➡️➡️S➡️
late s2-s3: ⬅️T ⬅️S
late s3 + the time between s3 and s4: ⬅️T S➡️
s4: T➡️ 💔 ⬅️S
#help does this make sense#Tomshiv#my failmarriage beloveds#siobhan Roy#shiv roy#shivtom#Tom wambsgans#succession hbo#succession season 4#succession s4#succession posting#Succession
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Now I'm normally a big defender of the "Tom really does love Shiv" argument, but god, that scene on Logan's stairs in the last episode might be the single most manipulative thing we've seen Tom do.
Like, his whole thing this episode is that he's trying to ingratiate himself to everyone he can. Logan was his support and Logan is dead, so Tom is hanging out with the suits and trying to throw his hat in the CEO ring. He's going on about "living to serve" them. He's sneaking off to suck up to Roman and Ken. And then there's his scene with Shiv.
And like I said, I'm usually a big defender of Tom's love for Shiv. I think he originally fell in legitimate love with her as much as he was social climbing, and I think that the story he told on the stairs was about something genuine. The past Tom that sent Shiv handwritten letters and asked her constantly to tell him "yes" sure wouldn't have minded getting close to the big boss's daughter, but he also did all that because he loved her.
But on the stairs? When he tells the story? He is still so deeply in "ingratiate myself" mode. He needs someone on his side in Waystar, and the best way to do that would be to make Shiv fall in love with or depend on him again. So he goes to her and pulls out the sweet romance and reminds her of the past. He says "hey, remember when you were going through a hard time and I made it good for you? remember when you fell for me and depended on me for support?" And the unspoken words behind the words are "hey, I see you're going through a hard time now, and I could be all that for you again. Don't you want that?"
He knows she wants the divorce and she's made it pretty clear that things are emotionally over, but he's trying to pull her back in while she's vulnerable.
I doubt Tom sat in a room somewhere and thought the words, "I will take advantage of my wife's emotional vulnerability," but when he went up to her and followed his instincts toward what might make her want to take him back again, that's exactly what he did.
#I dunno if I ever would have thought of tomwamb and the word 'seduce' in the same sentence before#but damn#Tommy knows how to sell himself#and he's fucking evil for it#<3#succession#succession spoilers#tom wambsgans#siobhan roy#tomshiv#shiv roy#tom wambsgans my beloved#failmarriage tag#honeymoon states#successionposting#english major hours
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CONWILLA ALWAYS WINS!
TOMSHIV FOUND DEAD IN A DITCH!
#i love failmarriage but it’s shiOVER#willa my beloved#succession#willa ferreyra#connor roy#shiv roy#tom wambsgans#conwilla
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Lisa Braeden as Penelope
"Penelope's Song" by Louise Glück
"Penelope" by Carol Ann Duffy
#supernatural#spn#dean winchester#lisa braeden#lisaposting#it's like. listen.#the hero's wife who waits around on the edges of the epic making herself a soft place to land#Home versus The Open Road (static vs dynamic)#deanlisa failmarriage my beloved
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what is the most romantic trope and why is it remarrying the person you divorced?
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team Ken baby I'm a no!
#stewy stewy my beloved#wait roman didn't flop and shiv is going to....because tom....no...#failmarriage fail family...
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tom seen not wearing his wedding ring: hm i guess that’s okay
shiv seen not wearing her wedding ring: WHAT NO STOP IT I DON’T WANT THIS
#why does it feel more real like this#also i'm not even sure she didn't have it bc the pics are blurry as hell but still#the possibility of it is just. nooooooooo#my beloved cringe failmarriage#i can't believe zuzia's url is going to become canon oh my god#succession#tomshiv
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I really hope succession s4 doesn’t start with a time jump with tomshiv already divorced like if they are indeed going to get divorced I want to see the whole process dragged out for as long as possible
#I just saw the video of them filming and Tom doesn’t have a ring 🥴#my beloved failmarriage <\3#I want them vicious I want them conflicted and I want them completely unfulfilled by their attempts at revenge#rambles
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2023 HP Fic Recs
HP Fics written and completed in 2023 which I read and loved. My recs are based on my reading + taste.
Snarry
OTP!
For I Have Found Salvation by @lumosatnight
Severus is a priest, and Harry is the parishioner who may just make him break his vows of celibacy.
Enough said. Hot, wrong, dirty. So totally Snarry!!! Also with a twist you don't see coming! Rated E. 7100 words. From Snarry AUctober Fest 2023 collection.
Snake Charmer by @perverse-idyll
Sometimes all Severus had to do was turn thirty-plus years of repressed hunger upon him, and Harry would start shaking.
They are total disaster failmarriage hotness! Feel really sorry for everybody around them. Like a lot! The opening line is giving one really bad vampire in Hunger so much for me :D :D It's like a snippet/draft from WARM my beloved! <3 3200 words. Rated T.
Devotion by @danpuff-ao3
Is there anything more undignified than needing someone so much?
26000 words. Rated E. Maximum hotness. Maximum wrongness. Maximum dirty bad delicious Snarry. This is the longest HP fic I read this year and 100% worth it!!! I am a big fan of Danni's Snarry and this fic is one of my all time fav Snarries. From Snarry-a-thon 2023 collection.
In His Bed by @givereadersahug
Jealousy flooded Harry at their familiarity with each other's bodies. Resentment at their ease in getting each other off — the passion, the eagerness, the joy. All so different from his relationship with Severus.
Harry is super Slytherin here! Using the memories in order to learn what makes Snape tick! I really loved the dirtybadhotness of this fic! 450 words. Rated E. HP Kinktober collection.
Coda to "Soft Touch" by @perverse-idyll
He'd thrown the bait. Would Snape catch it? Yes, he would, and throw it back.
Soft Touch is the Most ethical Massage Therapy fic ever :D Dirty, bad, hot, wrong. So it's incredible to get this really sweet and wholesome coda. You can see the undercurrents of the more complicated themes but also really sweet. 3300 words. Rated T. This is as fluffy as PI Snarry gets :D :D
Femslash
Nymphadora, Nymphet by @thistlecatfics
Could this woman be a relative of her mother’s?
Bellatrix/Tonks, Bellatrix/Andromeda. 20200 words. Rated E. From Women of the House of Black fest 2023 collection. Really hot, dirty, wrong on literally every single level :D Obviously I love it! The femslash Lolita fic HP fandom really really needed :D
Candles Lit Against the Dark by @perverse-idyll
Wilhelmina Grubbly-Plank/Minerva McGonagall. 13600 words. Rated G. My favorite fic of 2023. From Snapecase 2023 fest collection. Beautiful, beautiful fic which is kind of my personal epilogue for the books at this point. Lost count of rereads. It's packed with beautiful friendships, people focusing on the sweet instead of the bitter, people moving on together, people forgiving each other. It's an incredible fic with perfect execution on some classic tropes like matchmaking and friends who are going to help you whether or not you asked for it. Also some not so classic tropes like celebrating a female character's life/happiness/love being the center of a rich fic. Ultimately this is Minerva McGonagall's fic and I am so here for it.
Once of Eden by eldritcher.
Lily/Eileen. 2000 words. Rated M. Poignant and super sharp character study of Lily. Lots of storms inside her head about her family/war/Petunia/Snape. This is right before her marriage but she has this feeling she doesn't fit into that life and she doesn't want to let go of her past. Like a lot of us, she's also seeing her past/childhood through these nostalgic glasses but at the same time she's also noticing adults in her life and has this bittersweet feeling that she's an adult now/making adult choices now. Serious Catcher in the Rye vibes. This fic has the Lily for me. Really like Harry, really Gryffindor. It's a really beautiful, sensitive, unique, powerfully human fic.
Leather by @saintsenara
Tonks/Fleur, Tonks/Charlie, Tonks/Remus, Tonks/OFC. 2900 words. Legit character studies of bi characters are super rare in our fandom. I don't really go for self-discovery type fics but this one is whoa! Love, love, love and highly recommend this one. It's out and proud and amazing. <3 From Ladies of HP Fest Collection.
Rare slash
Rare as in the only fic on AO3 for the pairing :D
The Ice Cream Man and the Potions Master by @squibstress
Florean Fortescue/Snape. 9000 words. Rated G. From Hoggywartyxmas 2022 fest collection. This is definitely my fav slash fic of the year <3 I feel like a lot of times especially with OTPs the preslash part is kind of assumed to happen in the background. This fic does an incredibly amazing job of setting up the preslash and it's just ultra convincing. New Snape ship dropped <3
Gen
Yeah, I read gen! Tbh I don't except when a character study fic or an author's writing style really grabs me :D
October by @ashesandhackles
Insanely amazing character studies. Rated G. The Barty Crouch Jr. character study, Disappointing Fathers, is probably my all time fav genfic with him. I came out of this super sympathetic for Barty which is something that never happened to me before. So well written and brilliantly characterized.
Womb by eldritcher
3000 words. Rated M. Phineas Nigellus Black character study with a beautiful friendship with Snape. Dark and intense but the fic has my fav Snape resurrection of all time <3 From Snapecase 2023 fest collection.
Birds of Paradise by eldritcher
2700 words. Rated G. Fawkes character study with a beautiful friendship with Albus Dumbledore. Really beautiful, ethereal fic. eldritcher can write non-human characters with their own "type" of emotional connect. Normally they use this superpower for writing interspecies :D But this is a beautiful gen fic. From Pandemic, my most beloved. Obviously each and every eldritcher fic has a really special place in my heart but Pandemic is just insanely generous giving something special at the right time when it was needed and it made a huge difference for me personally. Love and anarchy, always!
The Octaves and the Circumsion of Our Lord by eldritcher
The Dark Lord is circumcised. Nobody knows how everybody knows, but everybody knows.
2300 words. Rated M. Regulus Black character study with a beautiful friendship with Kreacher. Dark and intense fic about Regulus getting radicalized but also showing how he actually buys into those beliefs. Normally I avoid Regulus fics because the characterizations just don't work for me. This is exactly how I imagine Canon Regulus.
Al Najid by eldritcher
She has come here to make an example of this woman for the son to find. Snape should know that betrayal comes with consequences.
2800 words. Rated M. Bellatrix Black character study set just before she tortures the Longbottoms. A complicated situationship with Eileen. Dark and hot mess Black family fic.
Het
Oof. Literally zero reason to trust my hetfic recs but you got to trust me :D These fics are amazing!
Ariadne by @ashesandhackles
Surrealistic, beautiful character study of Cho. It's got Harry/Cho, Cedric/Cho for pairings but this is 100% her fic. 1100 words. Rated G.
Exploring Cho's feelings for Harry in wake of her grief for Cedric's death, with symbolism from myth of Ariadne, Theseus and the Minotaur
Four Christmases Pomona Sprout Loved and One She Hated by @kellychambliss.
Aberforth/Pomona. 6800 words. Rated T. This fic keeps it real. I really felt her pain because when you are an adult making new friends is super hard! The BEST Aberforth Dumbledore Snarkiest!!!! <3 I am a big fan of how this author writes The Abe D! Actually I am a big fan of this author. FAVE! <3 A lot of times rarepairs can feel kind of hard to believe because the characters don't have canon time together. You are totally going to be convinced. ALSO BANTER. I love relationship progression with banter. Things get bittersweet because of the war but it's got a really beautiful earned happy ending <3 My fav het fic of the year. Best fic to end this list :D
#fic recs#hp fic recs#hp#hp fandom fic recs#squash recs#2023 fic recs#2023 hp fandom fic recs#2023 fics of the year list#recs#2023 hp fandom squash's ao3 wrapped#sorry spotify ao3 is more important for me
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Anyways Katya Best Gal
Also katya and goncharov dynamic is highkey underrated failmarriage my beloved but yes they should divorce and be gay do crimes
#she didn't die guys okay <- shaking and crying#SHE'S FINE AND SHE AND SOFIA ARE TOGETHER AND THEY'RE HAPPY#goncharov#goncharov katya#unreality
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My personal ranking of Izzy ships, based entirely on how much I like them:
1. Blackhands: My beloved toxic dumpster fire! Izzy just has so many feelings here, it’s hard to not want to focus on it. Probably a personal favorite just because of all the interesting power dynamics here (which I love). Hard to ever have a happy ending with this ship, but that’s okay.
2. Steddyhands: I feel like all my favorite fics are this. A good way to get the fun of Blackhands without everyone involved being miserable forever. I love it when the dynamic is “experienced vet helping new intern with world’s meanest cat.” I love it when the dynamic is “divorced couple get a marriage counselor, repair their marriage, also marry the marriage counselor.” And I love it when it’s just straight-up Ed and Stede conspiring together to seduce their grumpy first mate. So many fun takes on this!
3. Lusrael: I ship it more every time I see Nathan and Con do anything together. I think it’s the single most likely ship to happen in canon (not counting the Blackhands failmarriage). I think I’m personally just a little less excited by the dynamic in fics.
4. Gentlehands: Hard for this to not just be Steddyhands, but I do appreciate it on its own. Probably my favorite angle is “bitter rivals must team up to win back their ex, have hatesex, spend the whole time imagining their rival is actually their ex, accidentally fall in love.”
5. Calicohands: This ship made me actually like Jack as a character, sometimes. I think Jack’s style of affection of affection is something Izzy could actually accept (tackle-hugs, nuggies, friendly shoulder punch, etc) and while it’s not optimal, our poor baby might be touch-starved enough to like it anyway. I also like Jack having unrequited feelings and the resulting angst (in case you couldn’t tell from my #1 ship).
6. Jackie/Izzy: They’re actually friends, maybe! And Jackie would be the type of dom Izzy would love. Izzy does seem more gay than bi to me though, unfortunately.
7. Izzy/OC: Obviously highly variable. I’ve certainly enjoyed Izzy/Bryce from HoHW quite a lot, as well some other one-off portrayals of Sam. But #7 is probably appropriate in terms of how likely I am to actively seek out such fics.
8. Ivan/Fang/Izzy: I think I saw some art of this like once and it was good art. Also I see David and Con taking newlywed pics together and it makes me like Fang/Izzy more. IDK. They’re there, they know each other, it could happen.
9. Izzy/Roach: They both like sharp weapons. Roach at least tried to give Izzy a sandwich once, which was nice. But they don’t have much actual or implied interaction in the show.
10. Jim/Izzy: I’m very excited about them together platonically. Maybe it could work romantically? But unlike Lucius and Pete, Jim/Olu don’t come off as quite so poly.
11. Izzy/Pete: They could bond over being Blackbeard fans. They could get together by both dating Lucius. Possibilities exist.
11. Izzy/Frenchie: I’ve enjoyed some fics of this, but overall, I admittedly don’t see the appeal. Frenchie taunted Izzy with “In your face, Jizzy!” after he lost the duel. Izzy held Frenchie at gunpoint in a scary (rather than a sexual tension-y) way. It feels like this ship is just happening because Frenchie and Izzy are stuck on the same ship together post-e10.
12. Izzy/Buttons: Butthands is a terrible name. I think Buttons is in a monogamous relationship with the sea. Good art though.
13. Izzy/Wee John: John is big and could lift Izzy in a princess carry. I can’t think of anything else to say here.
14. Izzy/Olu: I feel like this would be a healthy relationship for Izzy, because Olu is the type of person who has healthy relationships. Therefore, Izzy would never go for him.
15. Izzy/Swede: I feel like Izzy would actually hate this. The Swede is probably the least competent member of the Revenge crew. This relationship would be a disaster and not in the fun way like Blackhands is.
16. Izzy/Mary: I really really like them platonically. So much. But I feel like a romance would make negative sense.
17. Izzy/Chauncey: This actually skeeves me out, no.
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Also feeling insane about how Tom and Shiv both want to go back to the points in their relationship where each of them had power over the other.
Tom goes to Shiv on the stairs of her dead father's home and reminds her of when she was vulnerable and fell in love with and relied on him. He hearkens back to a time in their relationship where she was going through a hard time and he supported her, because that's what he wants again. Being the rock supporting Shiv through a storm gives him irreplaceable power there, even if he's nothing but good to her in the process.
Meanwhile, when they had the divorce talk in 4x1, one of the reasons that Shiv cut things off so quickly was that she wanted Tom to reach out and ask for her. If she said "it's over" and Tom tried to fight for her, then it would have been him begging her and her making the decision. It would have given her power over him again.
But I think Shiv recognizes Tom's ploy at the wake, and she pushes him away rather than fall on him, and Tom doesn't let himself beg when she tells him it's over. Tom wants to be her rock again and Shiv wants to be in control of someone subservient, but Tom's sick of subservience and Shiv refuses to be weak or reliant on him. So they're both just grasping at what the other one won't let them have.
#they loved each other but also Tom misses his anchor to the roy family and shiv misses her loyal little meat puppet#but those dynamics have collapsed and there cannot be a relationship without them#they're so madness inducing#I think the bit about 'Shiv stays cold because she wants Tom to fight for her' came originally from a Snook interview#definitely an interview with someone#but god it's so true it makes so much sense#succession spoilers#succession#tomshiv#failmarriage#tom wambsgans#shiv roy#tom wambsgans my beloved#siobhan roy#shiv roy my beloved#english major hours#successionposting#failmarriage tag
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3, 7, & 12
3. favorite rarepair
Interesting one! I don't know that I have one of those? I enjoy willashiv posting but other than that I'm not sure... not really a rarepair at all but on tumblr it could be considered that: I actually really enjoy Kendall/Naomi.. I think they have a really interesting thing going on and I LOVE the self-recognition through the other thing happening w them and the way she's very clearly a narrative mirror and kind of the implications of that .. also i love that she genuinely really cares about him. plus i just like their scenes together! maybe doesn't answer the question at all but...
7. season 4 predictions? (/is it futile to even guess?)
this is interesting obviously bc we know some stuff from what people have gathered from the shooting. but okay some of my thoughts:
stewy is gonna be approached by the siblings and I think (hope) there's gonna be a double-agent kind of situation going on where he acts as their informant from the inside while obv still acting as if on Logan's side (as he really doesn't have a choice abt the latter part). maybe that's just wishful thinking, though
i've been THINKING about whose queer friend that we know has been cast is gonna come to Willa & Connor's wedding. My bet is, for some reason, on Willa or Kendall. Idk. This is based on nothing but vibes, either way can't wait for that to come up
I have some more spoiler-y thoughts that I think are pretty plausible based on what we've seen (and i think most ppl know about but anyway) and I don't wanna put here in case someone doesn't wanna know.. idk! honestly never know what jesse armstrong could even possibly come up with
12. favorite succ fanfiction/fanart/fanvid/uquiz?
this one's really hard to answer because no way can i just pick one, i'll just give you a collection. everything in my #art tag is so fucking cool. this shiv drunk walk home edit fucks really hard. the editing on this tame impala succ edit is so good, and it's pretty underrated imo. HAVE to mention cousin greg babooshka edit that changed my life in that it made me start watching the show a year ago. Lorde kenstewy edit my beloved <3 Succession relay edit, edit of ALL TIME. this tomshiv failmarriage edit means. so much to me. ken ideal husband edit <3 no he would not make the ideal husband, no i don't care <3 also this tomshiv marina edit !!! very good! THEE super rich kids roy siblings edit of all time. OHH Also good time to mention one of my youtube faves, the shiv everything I wanted edit. so good!! this one is incredibly, truly incredible as well. lastly of course THEE last kenstewmas edit.
#honestly could make a whole ass post just with my favorite youtube succ edits but also for good stuff just look thru my#vid#tag!#a lot of amazing edits. there are truly. so many talented ppl in this fandom#ask#anonymous#ask game
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When you get this you have to answer with 5 things you like about yourself, publicly. Then, send this ask to 10 of your favourite followers (non-negotiable, positivity is cool)
+tell me something good that happened today :)
i like my eyes. i never open them all the way but i still like them :)
i like my writing. i think im constantly improving but i think im always pretty entertaining and usually my emotions HIT
i think im funny (most of the time)
right now my nails are really cute and i painted all the flowers on myself
i think im creative
(this was very fun to get asked)
and today i found a new fav tgf fic! it was a failmarriage (my beloved) so im v happy link here
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See the thing about Shiv and Tom is that they love each other in opposite ways, which makes them fundamentally incompatible, and it also means they have to have opposite betrayals.
Tom loves in the traditional way—in the affectionate, physical, emotional way. Tom’s a social climber and is shooting for CEO, but he also really genuinely loved Shiv in that romantic sense before it all fell apart, and the thing that mattered most to him was that she do the same. Yeah, he was hurt when she pulled the switchup and said she wanted to be CEO instead of him, and he’s bitter that she keeps leaving him in the sidelines of her plans for the future, but none of that will ever compare to the ultimate betrayal he felt on their wedding night. She cheated on him, and she doesn’t love him, and she pushed him into an open relationship he didn’t want, and that is the worst possible thing she could have done.
Meanwhile, Shiv is a Roy, and the way she loves has been twisted by her upbringing—by a father that kicks the things he loves just to see them come back. In her relationship with Tom, she can’t or won’t offer him much affection in the traditional sense, and certainly no emotional support, but what matters most to her is the preservation of them as a team. She can insult him, cheat on him, and throw him under the bus, but she would never ever have actually tossed him aside. She flips the script in season 2 when she says that she wants to be CEO, but in her mind, so long as they’re still intact as a team pushing forward together, it’s not an issue. Not a betrayal. She can endorse throwing Tom to the DOJ while they talk on the yacht, because it makes her look like she’s thinking business, which she can use to work things through with Logan later. She can send Tom to jail because it’s his own smart idea, and it wouldn’t be for all that long anyway. What’s a year apart to a team like them?
The one thing Shiv has never done, the one thing she would never do, is directly undermine Tom’s position with Logan, because in a Roy child’s mind, one’s relationship to Logan is the most important thing in the world. By selling her out, Tom has destroyed her in the worst possible way, and he’s ripped apart “the plan” and their team in the process, seemingly out of nowhere.
Because the thing is, I don’t think Shiv has ever understood just how badly she hurt Tom by cheating on him. I don’t she can comprehend how the constant flow of insults and refusal of affection must wear down a man like him. She knows Tom’s unhappy, and she knows their marriage is in a bad place, but Shiv Roy is nothing if she loses the ability to tell herself she’s not the villain, which means she can never let herself understand just how badly she’s hurt her husband. And all that means that, even if some part of her knows it, she can never ever acknowledge that cheating on Tom, lying to his face, and denying him “love” on their wedding night was the worst thing she could have done to him.
So in Tom’s mind, he has spent almost his entire relationship with Shiv being beaten down. In Tom’s mind, this is him finally leveling the field—finally lashing back out and hitting Shiv with a betrayal as good as he got, because he’s fucking fed up and she deserves it.
In Shiv’s mind, though, what Tom just did to her is worse than anything that she has ever done to him. In Shiv’s mind her husband that she has always tried her best to love in her own way just slapped her in the face with the worst possible sleight, and she has no idea where it came from.
TomShiv as a team is finally dead, and the tragedy of it all is that neither of them can even understand how the other is feeling about it. Shiv can’t see that for Tom, their relationship has been floundering and dying since their wedding night, and Tom can’t see how much Shiv really did rely on their alliance as a given despite everything, and how she could never let herself understand how she was hurting him.
#like shiv doesn't *love* him but she loves him#which is all that's ever really mattered to her#but can never be enough for tom#and neither of them can comprehend how the other one feels about the issue#so they're tearing each other apart#succession#tomshiv#tom wambsgans#shiv roy#siobhan roy#english major hours#tom wambsgans my beloved#shiv roy my beloved#succession spoilers#god I am in my failmarriage feelings today
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i’m the person who sent the love languages ask to technojizz and i loved your elaboration on it. you’re totally right that my saying tom is withholding verbal affirmation to hurt shiv was an oversimplification, the situation is a lot more complex than that. i’ve always found the conversation at the wedding so interesting and as bad as it is, kind of reflective of what shiv gets from tom. not in the “someone she’s able to walk over” way, but just like.. the fact that she has feelings has been weaponized against her her whole life and she definitely feels as though she needs to hide them, and here’s someone saying that what she’s feeling is okay and that they want to know about it. i guess the next step, is like, what do you do when you both have feelings that clash with each other? tom seems all too willing to compromise out of fear of asserting himself, until it gets to be too much and then it’s a worse situation. shiv haters will say she wouldn’t be willing to work with him but honesty it doesn’t really seem like her gave her a lot to work with after the conversation. i also have thoughts on shiv’s “i’m not sure i’m fit for a monogamous marriage” and how in the context, it seemed a lot like an admission of insecurity more than anything else, and whether she would be happy in the kind of marriage tom wants if she was more secure with both herself and with their relationship. i have no experience being in or wanting an open relationship so saying that seems presumptuous and my opinion flips back and forth and i would never argue against anyone saying otherwise. anyways i am rambling and this feels kind of stupid compared to your brilliantly worded thoughts but yeah
Ahhhhh this is SUCH a good ask!!! I have so many thoughts on this.
So first off, I’m gonna say that I don’t think Shiv is actually in a place where she should be married to anybody, at least as of the start of the show. That might sound harsh, but - I think that in order to have a healthy marriage, you need, at a minimum, a vague understanding of whatever your personal issues around emotions and intimacy of and a willingness to work on them. I think Shiv’s issues around emotions, intimacy, and commitment at the beginning of the show are so extreme that she really needs to work on those before settling into a long-relationship.
Just to be crystal clear - I am NOT saying that people who have childhood trauma to work through shouldn’t be in relationships!!! But I do think that there is a bare minimum of emotional intelligence, communication skills, and comfort with intimacy that you need to have in order to have half a shot at a healthy relationship, and I don’t think Shiv has that. She could develop it, for sure, if she had a good therapist and was willing to recognize her issues and put the effort in! But she doesn’t really seem to be there.
Tom has a lot of issues too, but I think he’s more in the range of “definitely needs therapy and to be with the right kind of person - who is probably not Shiv - but should be able to carry on a healthy relationships with the right effort”. That’s mostly because he does seem to be better at communicating than Shiv is (although his communication skills do need a fuckton of work, he is able to voice it when he reaches a certain level of unhappiness), and he has a better sense than Shiv does of when the relationship is on the rocks and what the root issues might be. He also doesn’t have the issues around intimacy that Shiv does, and which are the root of a lot of issues in their marriage. (And I’m not just talking physical intimacy but emotional intimacy and trust, which I think is actually the more devastating issue.)
That said, people with crippling emotional issues do get married all the time, so - what do you do if you’re in that situation and you want to try to make it work? I think a lot about how Tom should have responded to Shiv, if not on the night in question (bc tbh that’s a lot to process and I don’t blame him for needing time to think) then pretty soon afterwards. I think part of the problem is that if Tom and Shiv had an honest conversation pre-wedding about what they wanted and needed out of a marriage, they maybe would have realized that they aren’t a good fit for each other. And I suspect that they might know this, or at least suspect it and that’s maybe part of why they avoid having that conversation - the fear of being alone outweighs, in their minds, the potential benefits of realizing the bad fit.
But, post-wedding? You’re right that Tom doesn’t give her much to work with. I think he’s afraid that if he pushes back at all (which is how he would view voicing his own wants and needs), it’ll push her away. I’m not an expert on open marriages, and I think theoretically they can work - but I think in Shiv’s case, her desire for an open marriage has nothing at all to do with a desire for polyamory or sexual desires and everything to do with her fear of intimacy and commitment, which is a terrible foundation for an open marriage. So I think, if they wanted to have a hope in hell of making a marriage work, Tom’s first move should have been to try and dig deeper into why she ‘didn’t think she was a good fit for a monogamous marriage’.l
(And that wording IS fascinating, both bc of how it betrays insecurity - as you pointed out - but also because it paints the open marriage not as something she wants to do, but as something she feels she needs, maybe even a crutch).
Of course, the risk of digging into that question is that you discover that you’re the problem - there’s always the risk that Shiv will reveal that Tom isn’t enough for her, emotionally or sexually, and I think that would be too devastating of a revelation for Tom. I think there’s some safety for Tom in the ambiguity around it, where maybe the issue is him but maybe it isn’t.
I do think that a large part of the reason Shiv wants an open marriage is specifically to put some distance between her and Tom, because the intimacy involved in commitment feels dangerous to her. Presumably she and Tom were together for at least a year before they got engaged, and she doesn’t indicate any interest in an open relationship until after they’re engaged, so I do think the two are very much connected. Of course, I don’t think Shiv fully understands that herself, or is able to articulate it.
So basically, really, as soon as they got back from their honeymoon they should have found a couples counselor. Like, immediately. I am a big advocate for pre-emptive counselling in pretty well all long-term relationships, but if ever a couple needed a professional to help them work through their issues it is Tom and Shiv. Shiv in particular needs to get to a place where she understands her issues and fears and can articulate them, and the depth of her trauma means she definitely needs professional help.
I do think that if she could get to the root of those fears and work on them, she actually could be happy in a monogamous relationship with Tom - again, because her desire for an open relationship does seem to be deeply rooted in her fear of commitment, and because that desire only arose once she got engaged to Tom. I think the main compatibility issue with Tom and Shiv has to do with the way their flaws enable each other - Shiv has a tendency to run roughshod over people and Tom’s fear of stating his needs and setting boundaries enables that behaviour, and means that he lets things get a lot worse than he should. With some effort and professional help I think they could make their relationship functional; but those issues are always going to pose serious difficulties to them regardless.
Also to circle back to the wedding night convo - there’s been a lot of fandom discussion, in light of the season 3 finale, of ‘of course’ being the opposite of ‘fuck off’. And it GUTS me, with that in mind, that Tom’s immediate response to Shiv asking if it’s okay to say to him is ‘of course’. That’s the kind of unconditional love she’s rarely felt in her family. Unfortunately I think on some level she can’t help but mistrust it, because she’s never truly experienced unconditional love; in her family love often has an agenda, or is considered weakness, and it can ALWAYS be weaponized against you. When that’s your primary experience of love, those scars run deep. So I think a lot of her pushing Tom away, especially in season 2, is a consequence of that wedding night conversation - she’s shown too much of her hand, and the love Tom has shown in response frightens her, even though she also desperately craves it.
Tom and Shiv need couples therapy so bad it’s not even funny. And not even in a ‘cringe failmarriage’ kind of way. They’re dealing with a level of emotional issues and childhood trauma that few people have to grapple with, and it’s a massive tragedy that neither of them clocked that sooner so they could get the professional help they so desperately need.
#tomshiv#tom wambsgans#shiv roy#tragic failmarriage my beloved#also i got an ask a month ago about whats wrong with tom and if you happen to be reading this I WILL ANSWER IT#i got a little carried away thats all#turned into a little creative writing project#sorry
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