#much of my fan fic is sheer character analysis
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bad buddy fandom getting-to-know-you meme!
ah finally after a gazillion years i've been able to get around to doing this after being tagged by the ever sweet @fiercynn , so lemme straightaway get down to it.
note: i consider "fanworks" to pretty much everything people create related to a fandom, including but not limited to meta/analysis/discussion, gifs, fanvids/edits/fancams, filk, fanart, fanfic, fan food, fan crafts, etc.
name and whatever you want to share about yourself
hello there, i'm a 24 year old gray-ace panromantic desi on the romance positive end of the arospec (im still undergoing the wonderful but also often difficult and long journey of discovering myself so this is subject to change :3), i prefer going by my username so i'm not sharing my name.
when did you watch bad buddy/join the fandom?
i watched bad buddy exactly 3 months ago on the 15th of May, 2023. i watched all the episodes all on the same day and i know the date because after finishing the show i sent a 7 minute long audio note gushing about the show to my best friend. i ADORED it that much. and that's where all of this started. i loved the show so much and the lack of people i knew irl who were interested meant i had to find other people in the fandom to freak out with. i kept posting one after another favourite bad buddy edit of mine on my twitter page, gushing about it, but i got barely any response and that's when i reminded myself that tumblr exists and i should get back on here. and that's how i made this account 2 weeks after i watched the show and voila here i am surrounded by people who are as crazy about the show as i am and i couldn't be more delighted about it :')
favorite ship(s)
patpran and inkpa ofc
favorite character(s)
i love pat with all my heart, the man he ends up becoming along the course of the show is one of my most favorite portrayals of any man ever BUT pran is my actual favorite, he is my baby, (somehow both) my elder and younger brother and my best friend and he has my whole heart. his love, his hesitance, his anxiety, his bravery, his dimples, his FOREHEAD, his striped shirts, his precious heart i would DIE for him no questions asked.
favorite episode(s)
episode 11. each segment had something for the heart, i adored every single second of it...the sheer volume of beaut quotes from this episode is mind blowing! ("being with you already feels like freedom", "i can be anywhere as long as i have you", "we have been happier a lot too", "thankyou for trying to make a silly guy like me happy..." "i wrote this song for him", "one man can't change the world, but this world can't change me too"), and the soft loving looks of adoration making me clutch my chest, but also there was the quintessential patpran banter and bad buddy humour and wisdom i LOVE this episode with all my heart.
episode 5 is perfection. it comes second for me, but that kiss will always be number 1 <3
favorite scene(s)
rooftop kiss, balcony phone call, episode 7 ending when pat comes to save the day and the play, episode 11 red shirts commitment expression scene, and the final credits and post credits scene
one thing you would change about the show if you could
i wished the gangs didnt bully eo or anybody else even in the beginning, i get it shows growth but still i wished that was shown differently. also i wish we got a conversation where they talk about the guitar. and while we're here i wish it was somehow longer, i could have watched ohmnanon be patpran for HOOOURS.
what are your some of your favorite fanworks made by other people?
traffic was slow for the crash years by @fiercynn aka the creator of this meme. i absolutely adored every single second of the fic. despite it giving me a WORLD of pain. all the pain made it more beautiful and everything was worth it in the end. like i said before you took a great thing and made it even better <3
every piece of art that @hereforlou comes up with. you are a GEM!
all of nanons gorgeous gifsets!!
same page video edit that even p'aof tweeted about. SO good.
enchanted (aka patpran's official song) and other patpran edits by this same SO very talented editor
mudhal nee mudivum nee - another beautiful edit but desi so its even better <3
this super clever edit of patpran to message in a bottle. it's an instant serotonin booster for me.
(if you create fanworks) what are your favorite fanworks that you’ve made?
you can hear it in the silence - bad buddy bet era fic (the only one i've written till now)
my bad buddy textposts collection
my pran and pat's growth posts
this post that took me 20 mins to write but is one of my fav things ive written about the show
my long treatise of bet era patpran that took me a week!
list of accounts (hopefully i haven't forgotten any) whose meta and analysis and brainrot i absolutely adore- @miscellar , @telomeke-bbs , @grapejuicegay , @aroceu, @dudeyuri, @dribs-and-drabbles, @dimplesandfierceeyes, @sharingfandoms, @waitmyturtles, @ranchthoughts, @lurkingteapot, @lurkingshan, @thegayneurodivergentagenda, @kenmakaashi, @absolutebl, @charthanry, @bengiyo, @mahuhumaling, @panickedbisexualwatchesbl, @jemmo, @patspran, @fiercynn, @midnightfreeway, @fierceeyesanddimples and a couple more im sure ive missed. it was {and continues to be} a pleasure reading their thoughts about the show (or any other show that we've mutually watched).
a song that makes you think of bbs (the ones in the show don’t count lol)
message in a bottle because of this edit
daylight cos of this edit
enchanted, because of the infinite edits we've got from it and if im not wrong pat ohm has acknowledged it too
and basically all other romantic songs in the history of romance i guess :3
alrighty then i think i'm done with this tag. this was a LOT of fun to compile <3
#bad buddy#bad buddy getting to know you meme#bad buddy fanworks recs#bbs fandom#bad buddy fandom#bad buddy the series#patpran
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the way i wish there could be more good faith analysis and fic about billy having adopted racial prejudice from his dad and then learning to properly recognize it and grow past it in order become a better person.
i wish there was more posts and fics that tackle the bullshit lucas has had to deal with as a black kid in small town indiana because the duffers never even considered it.
but the sheer puritan black and white thinking and performative activism or moral virtue signaling or whatever the fuck that is so pervasive in this fandom means that even the few posts and fics that dare to try and actually tackle racism tend turn it into either a punishment narrative, are depressingly shallow about it, make it about hating and liking the 'right characters', or miss the mark entirely
like i get it, homophobia/transphobia is easier to explore and talk about for most fans. it's complex and multi-layered just like other types of oppression, but so much of fandom is queer and dedicated to shipping and labels that yeah, i can see how talking about it is just. easier for a lot of ppl.
also a lot of fandom is white. and lots of white gays get weird about discussing racism in their spaces. y'know the deal, but i digress.
from what i can see, very few ppl want to explore how racism affects our favorite characters and the stories they live in. i know some ppl are probably afraid of getting it wrong, or they don't know anything about it and don't feel like they should. it's like, my blorbo is queer and so am i, so why wouldn't i talk all day about that? i get it. but it honestly just means a lot when someone tries earnestly. i have read beautiful fics about trans love through hardship by cis authors and such genuine fics about connection in the face of racism's poison by white authors.
there is just SO much untapped potential in exploring lucas and max and billy and patrick and argyle and all the other characters directly and indirectly affected by bigotry and racism within the narrative that never got the acknowledgement it deserved.
plus it's super weird being used as a 'gotcha!' by white fans that hate billy (as if poc fans of billy aren't capable of seeing it for the bullshit it is) or seeing lucas' treatment in the show get brushed aside like it's nothing or how argyle gets sidelined an awful lot in the fandom (and don't even get me started on how messy the classism in this fandom can be, the borderline erasure of eddie's poverty and its effects on who he is as a person in fic is insane sometimes)
anyway. idk if any of this makes sense, but i can count like maybe 3 good fics and maybe a dozen good posts about billy that actually address this in good faith and only maybe a dozen more for every other character i mentioned. and i desperately want more. i am brown and queer and i want healing and love for all of these characters and i am going to have to start churning out more of it myself at this rate.
#the dozen or so good posts are all by my mutuals at this point lmaoo#and 1 of the like 3 only good fics is ALSO by one of my mutuals#oh actually i forgot about TOWNIE make that 4 good fics and 2 written by my mutuals lol#billy hargrove#i cant tag any of the other blorbos bc then ppl will start acting stupid in my notes#i may already be playing fast and loose bc i mention my man argy#this is super incoherent bc its late for me so im not in the mood for clowns#it's rly mostly bc either billy is painted as horrible bad racist who is either forever so or needs to grovel and suffer to redeem himself#OR ppl who like him dont rly know how to tackle the obvious racial prejudice in his actions and try to toe it aside#like yea i love him but that boy isn't gonna magically free himself of any bigotry without some in depth introspection#or some very specific headcanons about what he got up to in california and what was motivating him when he treated lucas like he did#and even then you gotta acknowledge it#idk man maybe im just picky like no one is obligated to write fic this is mostly me bitching#except for the overt racism and classism n shit in this fandom that im being deadass about#but yes TOWNIE + Spin Me Right Round + Yourself or Someone Like You fic supremacy#if you have recs. hand them over pls. i have a Need.
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please rant about awakening and fates fixits 👁️👁️👂
AHDFGVSA ANON MY PETTY MIND IS SCREAMING FOR ME TO MAKE THIS LONG BUT FOR THE SAKE OF MY FINGERS I’LL HAVE TO CONDENSE IT LMAOOO
They’re the “analysis videos” of the fandom made by people who, barring a few exceptions, have zero originality when it comes to the concept because they just apply the cinemasins approach, aka “this thing may or may not be an actual plot hole or bad part of the games, and it may or may not be detrimental to the narrative, but I’ll treat minor mistakes and nitpicks as major story breaking flaws so you’ll get my 300 chapter treatise on why my New and Improved version addresses every single one of those issues AND expands on the game AND adds Depth™ and adds Twists and Action and it’s totally a huge improvement!!1!!”
They’re basically ship of Theseus-ing the damn games to the point where we have to ask if they’re really writing fix-it/retellings, but more often than not it’s just them trying to pretend they wish they’d played the versions in their minds instead of what we actually got. And what they’re trying to shill to us is actually evidence that they don’t seem to care much for fatesawakening except trying to push their intellect (“intellect”) on readers.
This is particularly glaring when it comes to characters like Robin, Grima, Anankos, Corrin, Takumi, and Marx…Robin in particular. For all the complaints I’ve been forced to endure about Byleth and how much the fandom hates them and calls them cardboard, it sure says something that so many authors project this very specific image onto Robin of a stone-cold tactical Tom Clancy-style badass who’s super awesome and tough and a genius whose intellect surpasses every human limit, and, because of course this mostly happens with mRobin, he also happens to be a harem king who pulls all the bitches and waifus in his orbit. In reality, both Robins are fairly mild-mannered (often playing the straight man (lol) to the rest of the cast) but have their weird moments (especially fRobin but gd forbid fans let women be fun), and are basically nothing like the fantasy projected onto [mRobin].
They’ve also tried to inject very weird and incorrect headcanons into the narrative, treat them like actual canon, and then get mad when others point out they’re not canon—the best example I can remember rn is the claim that actually Naga is lowkey responsible for all the bad stuff that happened in awakening, she’s a bad mother to Tiki, and that Grima is actually a poor sad lonely boy with a hurt, misunderstood soul. Feh sure didn’t help things either lmao and I know the hcs thing happens in every fandom, but this is just something so glaringly obvious in these types of fics that it really just hammers home that they’re less fanfic and more essay that goes on for too damn long
3h fics are also plagued by “fix-its/retellings” (especially for drek like muh golden route even though people absolutely lambast revelations for existing, so what is the truth, fandom?), but thankfully they’re not as proportionally dominant like in fatesawakening due to 1) the sheer volume of 3h fic compared to every other fe title combined and 2) there is also greater focus on the smaller cast members and interpersonal relationships instead of general plot (for better or for worse). Unfortunately for fatesawakening the fact that so many “fix-its/retellings” exist also squeezed out smaller fics unless they were shippy
It would also be remiss of me to omit just how much of these fics’ bloat and bad writing is also due to the fact that the authors just fucking invented things out of thin air and then inserted them into the story (beyond hcs), and like. You can’t call your fic a retelling if you just completely ignore key parts of the games and replace them with something else entirely, and you can’t call that a fix-it unless you set up a reasonable justification for why z has to replace x—remember my comments about the essay and ship of Theseus? Here they are again!! This happened way too much to shit like Corrin and the bottomless canyon scene, how Garon became dragon puppet slime, robin’s backstory, what was up with the grimleal and valla and…yeah
I SWEAR THIS IS THE CONDENSED VERSION LMAO but thanks for asking anon, this gave me memory whiplash to remember looool
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3, 9, and 10 for the ask game?
Thank you for the ask!
3. What’s your favourite aspect of MDZS?
Oh gods, there is so much... How complex and well-written the characters are, their motives, their fears, and what drives them. How tight the plot is, and just the story's execution - how even with all the flashbacks it never feels jarring.
But my favourite aspect has to be, without a doubt, Wei Wuxian. Just how brilliant a protagonist he is, his ideals, his determination, his sheer strength of will. Wei Wuxian as a character inspires me to be a better person, and I think that will always be the most cherished thing I have about MDZS.
9. What’s your favourite piece of fan content you’ve consumed (metas, fanart, fanfiction, etc)?
My favourite piece of fan content... well there are fanfictions that are definitely my absolute comfort fics, and metas that gave me such brilliant analysis of the work itself. But I would say @ladypfenix's song of swords will be an all-time favourite of mine (with its sequel not far behind). It is such a beautiful piece of work and you guys should absolutely read it!
10. What do you look for in fanfiction? What do the writers have to get ‘right’, and what things will make you click away?
What will make me click away? Oh plenty, plenty of things. Especially so for fics set in canon-universe. I am much more flexible about fics that happen in AUs because I can be brought into the belief of people being different with different influences. But even then, I am absolutely staunch about Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji's characterization and also about the dynamic they share. This means none of the nonsensical fanon about WWX - conditionally smart WWX, insecure or arrogant WWX, politically inept WWX, oblivious WWX, WWX who downplays his own powers for JC or even because he is afraid of YZY, just... let him be in all his confident, powerful glory. Similarly, for LWJ, caveman LWJ makes me want to die, LWJ who is cruel to others who are not WWX, LWJ who is over possessive especially if WWX and he are not in a committed relationship yet, Manipulative LWJ, Dark LWJ are all my instant nos.
For Wangxian dynamic itself, I don't care for LWJ being the one who fixes WWX or whatever. I also don't care for LWJ being raised on a pedestal while WWX is someone who is barely worthy of him. These are common tropes I see, but I obviously don't care for the roles being reversed either.
Aside from that, for canon verse fics, I don't like abuse apologism, especially in the case of YZY. I don't care for fics that whitewash JC, JGY, XY. If they have a long redemption arc at a suitable point in the story, I could be convinced but like. It has to happen early. And there has to be a good redemption arc. But fics that act like they did not commit canon actions at all? Nope.
The cultivation world being framed as being in the right during the BM arc. I will jump away from that fic so fast-
And finally. Gui Dao is evil - or any substitute of Gui Dao in AU fics is evil - is an absolute instant no. I cannot handle it as it is almost always paired with reckless WWX/self sacrificing WWX.
I also have personal preferences regarding some side characters and only gripping plot and good WX characterization can keep me if certain pet peeves do show up.
As for what can the writer get 'right'? Well the opposite. Good WX characterization. Wen Remnants and WWX found family is always my favourite. Writing soft-hearted and timid side characters well is a personal preference I enjoy across all fandoms. I just... don't care for fics that look like it had been written by someone who knows the work through scrolling through a few posts on the net than by actually reading the book.
ask game
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God i agree so much, you can't go 2 steps in bnha ao3 tag without running into all might bashing like my man is kind he didn't deserve this shit especially because it's done to place Aizawa "stinky garbage teacher man" on a pedestal
DUDE i could go on a fucking rant about and y'know what? I will.
Apologies for the chunks of text thata re very ramble-y.
It seems like a lot of hatred of Yagi stems from two things: his words to Izuku in s1e1, and his bad teaching. For the latter, I think that's bullshit because in my interpretation, Yagi is not quirkist. People forget that he was fuckin quirkless himself, and sure, his generation wasn't as discriminatory but he presumably went through the same things as Izuku. And keep in mind, Yagi regards himself as helpless/useless without his quirk (see: the Vigilante Arc in the manga), as to him it's the only reason he could be a hero. Furthermore, even with the most powerful quirk, he still got his ass beat by AFO. So when a quirkless Izuku asks him if he can be a hero, it's not that he hates quirkless people, or that he is discriminatory, it's that Yagi own insecurities dictate that he himself couldn't be a hero without a quirk. Yagi is a victim of the system that discriminates against quirkless people, as well as a victim of his own trauma.
And with the former point, I see a lot of points that Yagi sucks because he's a bad teacher and didn't stop Izuku from breaking himself. Now, he's not an amazing teacher, but jfc characters can have flaws, and ultimately he's well meaning. But the sheer hypocrisy I see when people write Aizawa as this amazing teacher when he did fuck all for Izuku too. Aizawa let Izuku break himself and never helped, even though he threatened Izuku on the first day. (And speaking of the first day, there's no way Aizawa didn't rig the QAT. Izuku canonically can lift a whole ass fridge with Yagi on top with 100% quirkless, and is. comparatively fit. There's no way people like Hagakure, Jiro, Kaminari, Koda, etc. etc. would beat him in everything enough for him to be last place.) Furthermore, Aizawa had to know Izuku only just got his quirk (I believe that the thing that he doesn't check student files is completely fanon, but correct me if I'm wrong) and did nothing, but gets put on a pedestal! And that's hypocritical. Aizawa let Bakugo harass Izuku, didn't notice Mineta's harassment, didn't help Kaminari utilise his quirk to stop him from shocking himself, etc. etc. And I think that Aizawa is a product of a bystander society but y'all, how can he be put on a pedestal and Yagi bashed when he's a shit teacher too??
Also, if there was a quirkless person in the hero course, what's the chance Aizawa would have expelled them? Because tbh, there's probably a chance that he would.
Also, don't get me started on the people who think Yagi 'groomed' Izuku like wtf. If that's the case, then doesn't that mean Aizawa groomed Shinso? I could also talk a lot abt shinso because a lot of the stuff about him is completely fanon and everyone likes to woobify him, but that's an ask for another day. How people can bash Yagi, but have a Bakugo redemption, parental Aizawa, good friend Shinso, etc. is just, eh. Like I get it, but eh.
And honestly, to an extent I get it. People love found family. Hell, I'm a massive fan of Irondad, Dadmight, and so many other things like that. And to an extent Dadzawa isn't bad! But to bash Yagi to make Aizawa seem like a better person? Nah. They're both heavily flawed characters, and ignoring one's flaws and exacerbating the other's just feels hypocritical.
Honestly, at this point I can't really read any Dadzawa fics or Quirkless Izuku fics because of the rampant Yagi bashing. It's just, ugh. I can't wait until the Vigilante arc is animated, so that anime-onlys have to see that Yagi and Izuku's relationship is so much more that what they describe.
But hell, this is the MHA fandom. Critical analysis means fuck all here. But each to their own.
Ultimately, MHA is a flawed world, where everyone is a victim of societal bias and inherent discrimination. No one character is exempt from this. Not Yagi, not Aizawa, not anyone else. But everyone is allowed to have their own interpretation.
#fuck this was a long one#yeah I have Feelings(tm)#correct me if I'm wrong in any of these points#ask#anon#bnha#mha#discourse#not vld
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It’s pretty easy, I think, to shit on people who can’t let go of Harry Potter when you yourself didn’t have that deep a connection to it, or if you’ve had a much deeper connection with other media that you’ve been able to turn to. If you hadn’t participated in the community, made friends through Harry Potter, bonded with people over it. If you haven’t loved it and lived it and had it colour your life.
Harry Potter is without a doubt THE most formative piece of media I’ve ever engaged with, for me personally. It was the first novel-length book I ever read, because I loved it so much that my parents simply couldn’t read it to me fast enough, back when I was so young that books were read to me rather than read independently. I literally learnt to read in order to read Harry Potter.
It was my special interest as a child. I was obsessed. Some of the books I can’t have read any less than 50 times. At one point, I could have watched the movies and spoken then line for line. I got Harry Potter-themed gifts for birthday and Christmas. The spine broke on multiple volumes because I read them so much waiting for the next one to come out.
When I was a teenager, I discovered fanfiction and then online community, and learnt that I could engage with this beloved piece of media in a different, more adult way. I had never stopped loving Harry Potter but I’d also never met anyone who’d loved it as much as I did. Most kids I knew who liked it had never even read the books - a terrible sin in my eyes, as the movies were awful and didn’t capture the wonder of original works. But all of a sudden, there were all these people who knew all about it and wanted to talk about it - and who were creating brand new content that I could consume forever and ever, because there was so much of it!
And the fanfiction was so good, too. It had a critical fandom mass, and many writers were adults, so that meant that there was a lot of genuinely very good fanfiction at a time where overall fic quality was perhaps not as high as it currently is. And it was queer. Suddenly all these characters that I knew and loved were gay and trans and ace, and for teenage me, that was incredible. These characters were like me. It was better than the original books, because it was so self-indulgent and so specifically tailored to my interests, and I was no longer reading it alone. I had friends who loved it, and a wider community, and I could see all the reviews on a fanfic and talk in forums and post here on tumblr and there was just so much content generated by fans, from fanfic to fan art to gif sets to literary analysis and discussion to fanmade films.
And I made my own content too. I’m now a professional writer, as in I do it for a living, but I literally don’t know if I’d be here if it weren’t for all the fanfiction I wrote as a teenager, largely for Harry Potter. Hundreds of thousand of words, hours and hours of practicing and honing and encouragement from other HP fans, and just the sheer obsession that comes when you love a piece of media and you can share it with other people who love it too. The passion I had - the passion other people had - kept me honing my skills and taught me the basics of my craft.
I can never love Harry Potter the same as what I once did. But I can never forget it either. It’s been far too influential in my life. I’ve spent literally thousands of hours thinking and talking and writing about it. There’s a quote from the books tattooed on my arm. It was with me as a child, as a teen, as a young adult, though struggles with my mental health and through crisis points. For a long time it was a massive part of my identity, it helped me discover and come to terms with my gender and sexuality, and has shaped me more than literally anything else.
But even if I wanted to bury my head in the sand and ignore everyone who now hates Harry Potter, it will forever be tainted by J K Rowling’s actions. I can’t see anything Harry Potter-related without being reminded of her transphobia, and of how the fandom has been destroyed by it, and that this thing that I once loved now feels like a hollow shell of itself. Even if I wanted to put aside my own morals, I literally can’t - the reminders are everywhere and I am not capable of looking past them.
But I can no more forget loving Harry Potter anymore than I can erase my own childhood. And I wouldn’t want to, because it has been so much a part of my life, and for 14 years it was incredibly positive and affirming and it’s made me into who I am today.
I don’t post or talk about Harry Potter anymore. I haven’t seen the latest movie. Sometimes I’ll see memes or discussion or images, and sometimes I can smile at them fondly and remember Harry Potter for what it used to be. But the deep love, bordering on obsession, I once had, has been destroyed. And that’s deeply saddening to me.
So yeah. That’s how I feel about it. I’m not defending the people who ARE ignoring JKR’s actions, who are continuing to stan Harry Potter and the new media put out. But I understand why and I think they’re probably a lot happier than me for it.
And I also think it’s very easy to jeer at them from the sidelines when you never really gave a shit about Harry Potter, or if you only enjoyed it as much as a normal person (or even a normal fan). If it was just a book series to you, great. Good for you. I hope you’ll never know what it’s like to have Your Thing™ rendered untouchable, ruined not just for all future content but also for the original story that you once loved. I’m glad that super fans of Minecraft got to seperate the game from Notch’s views, and that Pokemon is owned by a corporation with a carefully-maintained public image that will likely never be ruined, and that Rick Riordan got his act together quick smart and improved as a writer of diverse stories rather than going backwards like JKR did. I wish Harry Potter had been a smaller deal, that JKR hadn’t been such a huge a public figure and could have gone about her bigotry quietly, like the authors and creators that you all love and and enjoy still. But she didn’t. Sucks for me, I guess.
Idk where I’m going with this. Just maybe take a little less glee in your moral uprightness when you’re condemning Harry Potter and everyone who ever enjoyed it. I’m glad you all had the remarkable foresight to not fall in love with a book written by an author who turned out to be a horrible person 20 years later. Not everyone was so lucky.
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[Image Description: An Undertale chat box that has “WHY FANS LOVE UNDERTALE” at its center. Next to it are a line chart and an Egg from the Dating Hub on its left, and a CRIME measurer (also from the Dating Hub) on its right. End I.D.]
[Image Description: a pie chart titled, “LEVEL OF LOVE FOR UNDERTALE.” The textbox on the top right reads, “On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least and 10 being the highest, how much do fans enjoy Undertale?” From the top going clockwise, 12 or 0% chose 5 and below; 23 or 1% chose 6; 98, or 4%, chose 7; 325, or 12%, chose 8; 529, or 20%, chose 9; and 1664, or 63%, chose 10. End I.D.]
It’s clear from all of the data analyzed so far that fans who took the time to answer our survey love Undertale. It is unlikely that they would have taken the time to answer so many questions if they had not, and even less likely that they would have come across our survey in the first place. Naturally, it comes as no surprise that 63% of our responders gave their love for Undertale a score of ten out of ten. 95% gave their love for Undertale a score of eight or higher, and only 12 responders responded with five or below, a number so small that their responses had to be lumped together to be visible on the pie chart. Of those, only 3 responders gave their love for Undertale a score of 1, and based on those responders’ other answers, it is likely that they were only intending to troll. We are very fortunate that the vast majority of responders took the survey seriously, enough so that responses like this are barely a blip in the data.
Now, for our final analysis post of the event, we will delve into the reasons that fans love Undertale so dearly.
(Essay and highlights under the cut.)
There have been countless essays on the impact that Undertale has had on people’s lives. I can hardly add more on the subject than what has already been said, but I hope this summary can provide a brief overview of what stood out among the over two thousand answers given in response to this survey. That said, due to the sheer volume of answers, I could not read every single one in depth—however, I did skim all of them, and some that stood out or were representative of several responses have been highlighted below. If you would like to see what every fan who consented to share their response had to say, you may view the full list of responses here. Note that these responses have not been edited in any way. This document may take a long time to load, as it is over 100 pages long.
(Warnings for mentions of suicidal thoughts in the following essay.)
Several responders loved the theme of choices mattering in Undertale. Whether people played the pacifist, merciless, or neutral routes, they enjoyed how the game reacted to their actions. For some, it even made them consider their own morality. One touching response explained the impact that the theme of mercy made on them. “I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.” Many fans left similar comments about how the themes of Undertale made them better people.
Undertale changed how its fans treat others, and it also changed how fans treat themselves. The theme of staying determined and the messages of hope in the game were a light to a very large portion of fans. I cannot list all of the fans who said that Undertale helped them out of a dark place, or that they would not be alive if not for Undertale. “DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.”
Undertale brought fans together in unexpected ways. Some said they met friends or significant others through the fandom. “I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale,” one fan said. A different fan who is non-native English speaking mentioned that the game and the fan community helped them to learn English.
It would be impossible to discuss Undertale without mentioning the fan community. Whether for good or bad, many responders mentioned the fandom in their responses. Overall the feelings towards the fandom seem positive, though many made references to “toxic” parts of the fandom without specifying which parts they consider toxic. Others rejected the idea of toxicity in fandom. One response said: “[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!”
One thing that makes the Undertale fandom unique is the way it embraces various AUs. Some fans are tired of AU content, but the majority of responses show a love for the creativity behind AUs. “Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.” The lack of a judgemental atmosphere seems present in the AU community, according to the responses we saw. There is an interesting balance between AU and canon (sometimes referred to as “classic”) content that another responder pointed out: “The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertale fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)”
Regardless of the many AUs the fandom has created over the years, the original game of Undertale still feels like home for many fans. They wished they could reclaim the feeling of playing the game again for the first time, but even though we can’t reset time in real life, there is still a special feeling for fans each time they play Undertale. One fan said, “Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.” This feeling is one that can be cherished time and time again. In the words of another responder: “It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it.” Others pointed out the strength of the found family trope in Undertale, which likely contributes to this feeling of “home” as well.
As mentioned briefly earlier, the music is part of what makes Undertale feel like home for fans. Even when responses focused on other aspects of the game, many would throw in a comment about the soundtrack at the end. One comment focused on the music said “IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.” Like with the game itself, the music has incredible replay value, an amazing feat considering most of the tracks use the same few motifs. “I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story,” another responder said. “They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.”
If the music sticks with fans in their hearts, then the game’s lore sticks with fans in their minds. Even six years after the release of Undertale, fans are still creating new theories and digging up new secrets. The way the game breaks the fourth wall in particular intrigued many fans and has stuck out through all these years. The awareness that the game shows for the RPG genre makes it memorable. The game plays with the player’s expectations and turns them on their heads, all while reminding the player that they’re in a game. There are few other games that do this on such a large scale, so it’s no surprise that fans cite this as one of their favorite things about Undertale.
Lastly, the LGBT+ representation in Undertale has been a huge draw for fans. Especially in 2015, the sheer volume of non-cishet characters was unprecedented, as one fan pointed out: “It's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. Hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. It's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.” The LGBT+ cast including Frisk, Chara, Napstablook, Monster Kid, Mettaton, Alphys, and Undyne each connected with fans in unique ways. It’s clear how important this is from responses such as: “There are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.” “It made me gay and trans so thanks for that.”
Once again I am overwhelmed with just how much there is to say about Undertale. One responder really understood when they compared Undertale to an iceberg, explaining that there are so many layers to the game that there is something for everyone: “everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans—from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers—is the mark of the coolest games!” I would have to agree with them.
It’s been six years, and despite everything, it’s still you. Thank you for reading, participating in this survey, and above all, staying determined.
Highlights:
DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.
I think the coolest thing was having the opportunity to watch the AU community grow from its bare roots. It's nearly insane how big and complex it's gotten, unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.
i love how the lgbt rep is so naturalized... there are just gay people! and its nobodys business!
The music is my go to answer, but what I really really REALLY love is how the minor characters have so much personality to them when you talk to them. They aren't incredibly important to the overall story, but they're all so likeable and diverse that you just can't help but like them immediately!
I think it was the first videogame I have played that broke the fourth wall that much. Of course there has been other videogames that broke it but just for one or two tongue-in-cheek jokes. The guilt of killing mama goat was also something intense as well that I appreciated as an experience and that I didn't think a videogame could cause on someone.
I love how no character can be seen as completely bad! Everyone builds up Asgore as some horrible villain, but he turns out to be a 'fuzzy pushover' who's broken and just wants his family back by the time you meet him. Then you think Flowey's an irredeemable killer who engineered the suffering of the monsters across many timelines, and he is... but he also used to be the kind and beloved Prince Asriel Dreemurr, traumatized by his death and subsequent rebirth, projecting his best friend onto you.
The fact that choices matter in the game. Your first playthrough and getting the golden ending for the first time. I can never replicate those feelings again, wish I could erase my memories and replay the game from the start.
I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale.
(Toxic parts of the fandom aside) The community is possibly one of the kindest I've ever met. Cringe culture is completely dead, and I feel like I can be myself. I felt a very close connection to many of the characters, and I loved consuming content about them when I was in a rough patch in my life.
just everything, the whole game has just impacted my life so much. i know it sounds really lame, but when the game first came out, i would purposely put my hands in my pockets and sway slightly, like sans' idle animation. of course i dont do that anymore haha, but undertale still really impacts me to this day, and i wouldnt have it any other way :)
it made me gay and trans so thanks for that
I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.
The thing I love most about Undertale is no matter how many times I play or watch a playthrough it always makes me genuinely happy. It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it. Toriel still makes me feel all warm and cozy in her home, the Skelebros always make me laugh, and I still cry on the inside watching Frisk comforting Asriel. And on the flip side the No Mercy run still invokes the negative emotions in me as well. In short Undertale just feels like a second home to me and I always wish I could stay.
The reader inserts are my favorite way to decompress after a hard day
I think Undertale helped me discover my love for 8-bit games, and made me realize how IMPORTANT music is in video games.
the worldbuilding and character design are my favorite parts of the main game apart from the music! I’m also a huge fan of the random AU music- not for like underswap or underfell i like the stuff where someone makes a megalovania for a random au where gru from despicable me replaces sans as the character. i think its funny
Just... the vibe, honestly? Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.
there are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.
[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!
There's a scene where Frisk (the player) is going towards what is presumably going to be their death. They will fight Asgore and he will use their human soul to break the barrier and free his people. The music, despite the player's impending doom, is... triumphant. You are not the triumphant one here, and yet, the score invites you to experience the monsters' joy and happiness as they tell you the tale of their subjugation. The monsters are going to be free. This is their victory, but they don't hate you or want you to die. They're just... happy. That scene has always struck me very deeply. I feel it represents the best parts of Undertale.
I loved how well thought out the Geno route was. It really made me feel like I was doing something horrible, and the characters were very obviously reacting to dire circumstances.
I dunno? I like Undertale for it's characters, story, music, secrets and many more. I am not good with Headcanons but I also like the neutral endings and how different they can depending on who you spare and kill
I was very bad at english before, i thought i couldn't progress because i was very shy and not confident. But my sibling and i wanted to have the best experience with this game so we wanted to play it in english. It's this game and the fandom which helped me to make huge progress in english !
THE SOUNDTRACK. IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.
to avoid writing an essay i will say one word. Mettaton
It is like Toby specifically made the games to fit the iceberg meme and it's awesome, everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans - from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers is the mark of the coolest games!
I love almost everything about Undertale as a game on its own. The music, the art and especially the characters and how they interact. They made me feel at home. Undertale means a huge amount to me. (I even got a tattoo of the castle when you and MK walk together!) The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertake fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)
the mystery. toby fox refused to give answers to anything and i think thats very sexy of him.
I just feel guilty for liking it so much when I'm in my 30's. But I recently got diagnosed with ASD, so I guess it explains things a bit. Many ppl consider Papyrus to be neurodivergent, and some adult fans are too, so seeing that makes me feel a bit better.
i think about "Despite everything, it's still you" everyday of my life.
I like how it's just as funny as it can be serious. All routes are this way. I laughed as much as I cried when I played the Pacifist route and then once I opened the game again and Flowey was telling me to let them be happy, I immediately turned off the game. I somehow felt bad.
The Found Family Trope
The True Pacifist Ending is just...man. And the fanworks about saving everyone even when the game doesn't let you? MANNNNNN
I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story. They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.
there's honestly a LOT to love about this game, but i think one of my favorite things about it is just how many lgbt+ characters there are??? i can think of alphys, undyne, frisk, chara, mettaton, napstablook, monster kid, asgore, mad mew mew, the dress lion, the royal guards, and arguably even papyrus off of the top of my head, but im sure i'm forgetting a few from just undertale alone (there's even MORE in deltarune)!! it's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. it's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.
[Image description: A wordcloud in the shape of the capitalized word UNDERTALE. The text is white on a black background, and uses the font found in the game. Some of the most visible words are: Game, Love, Music, Life, AU, Store, Friend, and Feel, which represent the most common words in the essays people wrote about their love for the game. End of ID]
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Some things I've noticed or think are unique to the DP fandom:
1. We fuel more material through the fandom than we do with the source material. We've bled that show dry, and we're left with an evolving fandom to get more material from. Most of the stuff we see as canon might actually be fanon, but after writing about it for 16 years, who can really tell the difference?
2. I read somehwere that a perk of fanfiction is that everyone knows the source material so you don't have to bother with reading/writing backstory. In the DP fandom, we've all collectively agreed to read and write the backstory anyway. Other fandoms write perfectly wonderful, self sustaining fics without having to include the backstory, but here, we almost always include Danny's accident either in the beginning or as a flashback of some sort. So you don't have to watch the show to know what the show was about- you can find a fic, any fic, and know exactly what happens. There are writers for other fandoms with similar mindsets, but not at the rate we see here. (Not that it's a bad thing, I think it's cool seeing different takes on the same story. Especially since we don't really see the initial accident except through the theme song, so most takes on the accident are potentially unique anyway.)
3. Honestly? There's not as much gate keeping here than there is in other fandoms. I know it's not unique to DP, but it's interesting I think, because there's a stark contrast from this fandom to other fandoms where half the audience is trying to out-fan the others, while everyone here is like "oh hello you're new can I introduce you to a good fic?" It's a nice break from "i know more than you. Im the bigger fan."
4. We're more interested in reveal fics than other fandoms might be. Reveal fics are fun for all fandoms imo but it's fascinating how many reveal fics you can find in this fandom alone. I can't even come up with an explanation for it, I just think it's interesting.
5. We manage to adopt people into the fandom a lot and some reason we never leave or move on? People fall out of other fandoms all of the time, but when we join DP, we stick around a while.
Not to mention Phanniemay and Ectober, the fact that everyone hates Butch Hartman, the way we create and spread background characters so quickly, the phases the fandom has gone through, and the canon we have all agreed to ignore.
So in short, somehow we have created a community that inspires not just through the source material but also through itself and each other while also often abandoning the source material.
Sorry. I know this strays from your question about how other fandoms are unique, not how DP is unique from other fandoms, but these are all notable things that make DP such a wild fandom to join. What do you think?
Gosh, this is such an awesome analysis of the phandom that I can’t even begin to add on. This is so cool? So nice? And I get to post it? Criminal. Get up here anon and take credit (jk jk, you don’t have to).
But, yeah! I think you’ve hit a lot of the big points-- It’s certainly why I stayed after falling in out of sheer nostalgia. I suspect a lot of it is because we’re a ‘mature’ fandom... As in, it has been a long, long time since we got new content or a new influx of people and a lot of the drama’s already been had. Also, we’ve decided to kill ‘god.’ Except whatever’s going on with instagram cosplayers? I don’t know.
I’ve seen a lot about how our phandom is different, but this is my primary (only, really) fandom, so I haven’t really seen how others act and interact. Not firsthand. And these little snippets mean a lot to me. It’s just so interesting. Because we’re all on the surface the same type of thing, but there are so many little differences?
Anyway, thank you for sharing this with me!
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Old School X is a project interviewing X-Files fanfic authors who were posting fic during the original run of the show. New interviews are posted every Tuesday.
Interview with Audrey Roget
Audrey Roget has 10 fics at Gossamer, with some different ones at AO3, fanfiction.net, and her website. You might know her from her very good fics or as part of Musea, a collective that all wrote fic and posted X-Files fic recs. I’ve recced some of my favorites of her stories here before, including Three Times Dana Scully Didn’t Go to San Diego for Christmas and The Shirt. Big thanks to Audrey for doing this interview.
Does it surprise you that people are still interested in reading your X-Files fanfics and others that were posted during the original run of the show (1993-2002)?
A little, yes. Not so much by folks who were around in those days. I sometimes go hunting for beloved stories from the early years, both those I read and loved, and those I never got around to. I am always delighted to hear that later generations of fans have stumbled across my stuff, especially since I haven’t posted anything new in a number of years. It’s fantastic that both years-long fans and new ones are out there continuing to rec fic from all eras, and to maintain archives for fans yet-to-be born.
What do you think of when you think about your X-Files fandom experience? What did you take away from it? What did you take away from your experience with X-Files fic or with the fandom in general?
It may sound corny, but the main thing I think of, and the thing that has ultimately been most valuable and lasting, has been the friendships. The feeling of having found a tribe – not just of TXF fans, but of other people who could be as enthusiastically engaged as I was (if not more so) with fictional stories and characters – was mind-blowing. Since I was a kid, I had often mulled over the books/movies/TV I loved and speculated internally about what happened off the page or off-screen, or created new stories for characters in my head. But, except for an elementary school phase where I and my two BFFs regularly played Charlie’s Angels, I hadn’t engaged in that kind of gleeful immersion in a fictional world with others until TXF fandom. My involvement in fandom followed pretty quickly from getting hooked on the show, so for me, it’s all one big ball of experiences. Even as my interest in/involvement in fandom has waxed and waned over the years, I’ve been lucky to remain friends with wonderful people who I originally connected with as fellow fans.
Social media didn't really exist during the show's original run. How were you most involved with the X-Files online (atxc, message board, email mailing list, etc.)? What got you involved with X-Files fanfic?
My initial entrée to the fandom was through fanfiction. I didn’t get interested in the show until mid-season 5. Around the same time, I read an article in a zine called Might (co-founded by Dave Eggers) about this thing called fanfiction that people would write and publish online. At first I thought it was satire or a joke – the fic cited involved Wilma Flintstone and a polished sabre tooth, as I recall – but then realized this was an actual thing. So I figured that a show then at the peak of pop culture must have fanfiction, and I went looking. Early on, I scrolled atxc on a daily basis and downloaded stories. But I didn’t engage in discussions about the show on Usenet, since I only knew how to access it with my Earthlink email client, and I didn’t want to post using my real name.
Later, I set up a pseud address with Yahoo and subscribed to a couple of email fanfic/discussion lists, and stayed subscribed to those for years. There was also a period in there somewhere – of maybe only a year or so, when I think about it – when I’d often nerd out into the wee hours with other fans via IM chat groups. That was around the time the small writers’ collective Musea was founded, and we were active for several years after the show’s initial run. In the early aughts, I followed many authors to LiveJournal and eventually set up my own account and stayed involved in fandom that way, until it mostly dispersed as well.
What was it that got you hooked on the X-Files as a show?
In a word: Chemistry. I had casually watched a couple of episodes during the first four seasons, but I’m not a huge sci-fi/horror fan at heart, and the story lines didn’t immediately grab me. But I happened to tune into The Red and the Black in 1998, and BOOM. For the first time, the intense layers of emotion and attraction between Mulder and Scully really struck me – and then of course, upon further viewing, I realized it was unmissable, an essential element in the fabric of the show. As a wise woman once said, a switch had been flicked. Mulder and Scully’s magnetism was like nothing I’d ever seen, and though I eventually came to appreciate the storytelling, humor, production values, and other components that made the series so successful, watching those characters interact has always been what kept me coming back.
Were you involved with any fandoms after the X-Files? If so, what was it like compared to X-Files?
I was part of a list-serv discussion group for The West Wing for a while, which was a fun melding of character and plot analysis with political discussion. Later, I got into the House, MD fandom, again mostly as a fanfic reader/writer. I was finding that other fandoms, unlike TXF, were more dispersed, the networks of people structured more loosely, if at all. There were fanfic and discussion communities on LiveJournal, and fanfiction.net was the other main hub for posting and reading, but if there was anything centralized like Gossamer, Ephemeral, or the Haven, I never found it. Within all those fan communities, as in TXF, there were partisans for various characters and pairings, and flame wars erupted over plot developments that outraged this faction or that. One main difference was that those other shows had larger, ensemble casts and more varied subplots. So on one hand, there was more opportunity to explore back stories and multiple perspectives. In House MD in particular, there were several entrenched rival shipper camps, which were about equally grounded in canon, rather than TXF’s central ship. I was less into TWW fic, but my impression was that readers were less militant about their pairing preferences than TXF or House fans.
Who are some of your favorite fictional characters? Why?
I was deeply fascinated by Greg House for several years. (And the love-hate chemistry between him and Lisa Cuddy was a strong draw for me.) House MD came early in a wave of TV shows centered on anti-heroes, and Hugh Laurie brought amazing complexity and thoughtfulness to the character.
Philip and Elizabeth Jennings (The Americans) are a lethal pair of antiheroes. The inherent moral conflict of a sympathetic narrative from their POVs, and the global political conflict they embody was TV catnip for me. The internal struggles at the hearts of those characters were so exquisitely written and performed, they completely fascinate me.
The West Wing felt so much like a show created specifically for me. I’m especially fond of story arcs and scenes that centered on CJ Cregg, Charlie Young, and Josh Lyman. Though I loved Martin Sheen’s human portrayal of Jed Bartlet, the fact that he was the President always made him a little untouchable in my mind. But CJ, Charlie, and Josh were basically hard-working functionaries who were ambitious and idealistic and funny and flawed, and they spoke to me.
What is your relationship like now to X-Files fandom? Do you ever still watch The X-Files or think about Mulder and Scully? Do you ever still read X-Files fic? Fic in another fandom?
I do continue to think about Mulder and Scully and watch episodes somewhat often. I’ll sometimes run a favorite episode as background when I want something comforting on. I read TXF fic pretty regularly, which can inspire me to go back and watch a particular episode or story arc I haven’t thought about in years. Just recently, I started listening to The X-Files Diaries podcast (@XFDPodcast, @admiralty-xfd), and that’s a fun dive into the characters, and how other fans react to and interpret episodes.
Every once in a while, a TV show or movie – and more particularly, the characters – will grab my attention and make me curious about how fanfic writers have interpreted the original material. Random example, I saw Singin’ in the Rain for the first time in a theatre a couple of years ago, and the chemistry of the three leads sent me to AO3 as soon as I got home. I also loved the first season of Mercy Street and found some well-done stories in that fandom. I usually peruse the Yuletide gifts every year and have been amazed by the sheer variety, creativity and cheekiness of the output. There are a bunch of other shows I’ve followed faithfully, and sought out fanfic – Broadchurch, The Killing, Agents of SHIELD, Elementary, The Good Wife. Although I’ve found some well-written stuff in those fandoms, I’ve rarely gotten the same charge from them as reading TXF fic.
Do you have any favorite X-Files fanfic stories or authors?
syntax6 (@syntax6) – Universal Invariants/Laws of Motion. I’d also shout out to syn’s Hunter fics, too – well worth reading even for those who have never seen or particularly loved the show itself.
JET – I re-read Small Lives Awake every year around Thanksgiving time. Other annual holiday re-reads: Revely’s The Dreaming Sea and Jordan’s Through the Fire (both set at Halloween).
Amal Nahurriyeh’s Casey universe – the rare post-col fic that felt hopeful, made extra intriguing by a kick-ass original character. [Lilydale note: the series starts with Machines of Freedom and has lots of additional fics and snippets.]
Prufrock’s Love – Finding Rokovoko was genuinely terrifying and tender.
melforbes (@melforbes) – Seaglass Blue is a recent favorite, lyrical and bittersweet.
These are just a few (apologies to those that didn’t come to mind immediately). Fortunately for readers, there’s an astonishing number of authors who have written in TXF fandom whom you can depend on for a good yarn, insightful character study, and/or ingenious “fixes” where 1013 went awry.
What is your favorite of your own fics, X-Files and/or otherwise?
Probably the two set in my own (former) backyard of Southern California: Enivrez-vous and Ravenous. I’d first read the Baudelaire poem that was the source of the former’s title back in university days, so I was tickled to be able to use a few lines as an epigraph.
Do you think you'll ever write another X-Files story? Or dust off and post an oldie that for whatever reason never made it online?
It’s not out of the realm possibility. I’d meant for “Three Times Dana Scully Didn’t Go to San Diego for Christmas” to be followed up with “And One Time She Did.” In fact, the idea for that never-finished story was what inspired “Three Times” in the first place. I have a couple of scenes sketched out and – unusually for me – even know exactly how to end it. Every year, November rolls around, and I think I should finish and post it…maybe in 2021?
Where do you get ideas for stories?
Sometimes it’s from my environment. “Enivrez-vous” and “Ravenous” describe places that I’m fond of, that made me want to place Mulder and Scully there. “What Not to Wear” has that element too – I set it in Memphis as a tribute to a great trip there with a sister Musean. But WNTW was also inspired by a kink challenge in a years-ago LiveJournal thread, so sometimes ideas come from fandom discussions or even other fanfics. In the House MD fandom, a fic by another writer made me want to continue the story, and the author kindly allowed an authorized sequel.
What's the story behind your pen name?
I wanted my pseudonym to sound like it could be a real person’s name – or at least, maybe like a romance writer’s pen name – rather than an online handle. I also wanted to use a slightly obscure fictional character, to amuse anyone in the know. I had long had a bit of an obsession with Whit Stillman’s 1990s film trilogy, which started with Metropolitan; the 3rd installment, Last Days of Disco, came out the same year I started down the TXF rabbit hole: 1998. The central heroine of Metropolitan – who is mentioned in or makes a cameo in the other two – is Audrey Rouget, a lover of Austen and, eventually, a book editor. I altered the spelling of the last name as a nod to every writer’s companion, Roget’s Thesaurus.
Do your friends and family know about your fic and, if so, what have been their reactions?
I have a few close friends – from outside TXF fandom – who know that I’ve written fanfic. I don’t know if they know my pseud; if they do, or if they’ve ready any of the fic, they haven’t said so to me. They are fannish sorts themselves, but not really TXF fans. A smattering of other friends and family members know or could intuit that I’ve been a fangrl on some level for years. My boss, whom I’ve known for about 3 years, recently mentioned off-handedly that she was really obsessed with TXF “back in the day,” and I am DYING to know if she got involved in fandom, but don’t think I’ll ever work up the courage to ask.
Is there a place online (tumblr, twitter, AO3, etc.) where people can find you and/or your stories now?
Most of the X-Files stuff continues to be generously and steadfastly archived by Forte at The Basement Office. The House MD stories and some TXF things are at fanfiction.net; same for AO3. If ever post anything new, it will probably go to TBO and AO3. I really ought to get it all together in one place, one of these days…
(Posted by Lilydale on April 6, 2021)
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The Grishaverse Ship Survey Results
So! After all of that, we finally have the results! What is the general opinion on the ships in the Grishaverse? Well, that’s for you to read below! It’s actually pretty interesting and, while some parts make sense, there were definitely some parts which... surprised me... Anyway, onto the results!
Everything in this post can be split into:
The Grisha Trilogy
Six Of Crows Duology
The Nikolai Series
Shadow and Bone: TV Series
Most Enjoyed Ships
Least Enjoyed Ships
Crack Ships and Shipping Discourse
Notes from the Survey
(note from mod emily: i tried to bold all of fritz’ comments, but i might have missed a few! be aware there are two of us analysing here :))
The Grisha Trilogy
The first book series we asked about was, of course, the first chronologically: the Grisha Trilogy. The most popular ship, with 83% voters for this series selecting this, was Genya/David (Fritz was glad to hear that; Yes I am). This is likely due to the lack of alternate romantic interests in the series, which seems to be a major issue for Alina’s ships. It also seems to be one genuinely enjoyed by most fans, in contrast to Darkling/Alina and Mal/Alina (each around 30%) and Nikolai/Alina (just under 20%), for which I have definitely seen plenty of debate. The second and third most popular ships for this series were Tamar/Nadia (55%) and Nikolai/Zoya (47%). Interestingly, Genya/Alina (43%) and Zoya/Alina (30%) ranked surprisingly high, especially considering how few of my friends and associates I hear talking about them. Good for them!
Honourable mentions:
Alina/Sun (no doubt inspired by that crack fic I wrote a while back) (Still havent read that out of fear)
Alina alone (a common concept among those surveyed, though most mentioned it later)
Zoya/Genya or Alina/Zoya/Genya
Six Of Crows Duology
This series was a little less divided, I would say. Predictably, Kaz/Inej came out on top with a whopping 96% of voters (:relieved:), with Wylan/Jesper next (90%) and Nina/Matthias just after (83%). None of the others really came close, despite Nina/Inej gathering 35% of the votes and Colm/Aditi at 25% (yeah, I’m not sure why that was so popular on AO3 either, but nobody really has objections so I assume that’s why it amassed so many votes). As Six of Crows is decidedly less divisive about ships and doesn’t have such controversial ships (more on that later), it seems the fandom agrees with canon pairings and the votes are... pretty unanimous.
Honourable Mentions:
Jesper/Wylan/Kuwei
Polycrows (platonic or romantic)
Kaz/Inej/Nina
Whoever didn’t read the instruction about this being for only the book series and put Jesper/Milo. I will never escape.
The Nikolai Series
This one is a little harder for me because I actually haven’t read this... so over to Fritz for analysis! But first, the stats. At 85%, the most popular ship is Genya/David, followed by Zoya/Nikolai at 77%. Tamar/Nadia and Nina/Hanne draw at 61.5% and Nina/Matthias has 56% voters onboard. There’s no real honourable mentions for this one, sadly.
Hello Fritz here! Read the books and very glad to see Genya/David as the top ship as it damn well should. Although still a bit surprising since its more of a side-arc of the two and only ties in with the importance of the story at a specific chapter that I feel like I don’t need to elaborate about, if you read Rule of Wolves. (I believe the popularity of the ship also sky-rocketed due to ROW)
Following of course Zoya/Nikolai, the high ranking makes sense, it is the main ship and lets be honest they deserve it <3
I think the only really surprising thing about this is the high votes for Nina/Matthias since [SPOILERS CROOKED KINGDOM] he’s dead so I feel like people should move on from that. Nina/“Hanne” having not as high a ranking as I would’ve thought, but with Matthias still being in the frame I guess we shouldn’t be surprised either.
Shadow and Bone: TV Series
This one is really interesting, with the exclusive show watchers now taking part! We have 89% voting for Kaz/Inej, 76% for David/Genya, 71% for Matthias/Nina, 67% for Ivan/Fedyor (that’s a thing???-->Yeah they had a few somewhat sweet interactions in the background-->nvm i watched it you’re right fritz) and 62% for Mal/Alina. What’s really surprising is how high Malina is compared to Darklina, with Darkling/Alina at 36%. Who knows, maybe Fritz’ analysis can shed some light on this?
Yes yes Fritz to the rescue: First of all we have to see their interactions a little different from what we already knew of them by the end of episode 8. I still think it is a surprising number, since the Darkling in the show isn’t as nasty as he was in the books BUT over all his actions are now seen on TV. We all thought the deer antlers were a necklace amirite? Well no apparently not, the darkling used the worst kind of small science to fit Alinas collarbone to the bone and out comes a gruesome sight: a reason why many people might have started thinking: Wow what a disgusting person he is. And on the Malina “ship”: Mal finally has personality!! jkjk :eyes: Mals and Alinas friendship has been portrayed way better in the show and I believe that the people noticed more chemistry between them especially by the end of season 1. So I’m still a little surprised Darklina has such a low ranking (what with him being all sweet and cuddly in the middle of the show) but it makes sense and the Malina ship as well. Their vibes are just *chefs kiss* and thats coming from someone who didnt even like any of these “ships” <3
Loving the quotation marks for the word ‘ships’, Fritz. Over to the honourable mentions!
Honourable Mentions:
Jesper and Milo (isn’t milo a goat? guys, why?)
Nadia/Marie (huh that didn’t appear anywhere else)
One person had several - Kaz/Inej/Jesper, Dubrov/Mikhael, Dubrov/Mikhael/Mal - and yeah, you can really see the show differences in these mentions right? (whose dubrov...and whose mikhael...)
16% actually voted for Inej/Alina which is wild to me because of book context (they did have chemistry in the show tho :cowboi_smirk:)
Another person with several! We have Nina/Inej, Genya/Alina, Zoya/Alina, Zoya/Genya/Alina. Very sapphic. Good for you.
Kaz/Jesper and Nina/Inej all in one
That’s a lot of honour and mentions but it’s so interesting to me and I think you should see too
Most Enjoyed Ships
The most enjoyed ship was Kaz/Inej. This had unparalleled support, being at 35%. Jesper/Wylan, which was next on the list (23.5%) and Nina/Matthias (18%) were also pretty popular. Most of the others were quite low, though interestingly Mal/Alina only had 1 vote (plus one for the show version). Overall, the SoC ships were a lot more popular in this section, which makes sense - this part is really about your favourite ship, and those were more unanimous in the last sections.
Least Enjoyed Ships
Most people said Darkling/Alina, which got 47% of the NOTP votes. A lot more people disliked Darkling/Alina than liked Kaz/Inej. Make of that what you will, but I take it as a somewhat general agreement among many of you guys. Mal/Alina was also strongly disliked at 22%, but around a half or more of these were clarified to be about the book version of the ship specifically. They really must’ve upgraded in the show! Jesper/Kuwei and any other Darkling ships were also voted by a few, but all of these pale in comparison to the anti-Darklina votes.
Shoutout to the person who said Apparat/Anyone. I agree, though it’s not something I thought of before seeing this response. Also one person said they didn’t like the poly ships, which I hope meant just the ones mentioned earlier and not all poly relationships in general... Another shoutout to whoever said Kaz/Heleen, because why did I have to read that. A fun question, all in all!
Crack Ships and Shipping Discourse
I love talking about crack ships, so let’s start with that! This time, I really don’t want to have to count and list because... well, let me show you:
I think that sums up the sheer variety, to be honest. Then again, it would be rude not to mention that the most popular were Jesper/Milo, Darkling/Nikolai and Alina/Sun. (If you’re still confused about that last one, I take full responsibility.)
YES KAZ/KRUGE I SUPPORT!!!
Honourable mention to this:
which was a lot to take in, and:
Now for the discourse. Yep, the part you probably came for.
Actually... maybe you didn’t? Looking at all of these responses, I see a lot of people genuinely don’t care about ship wars and so on, and often enjoyed the books regardless of the romances involved. Quite a few disapproved of the ongoing (though small) wars between Darklina and Malina, and others had a similar line of thinking, saying we should maybe stop focusing so much on it. You guys are right. I know this is a ship survey, and the conclusions should not include that shipping isn’t as important as we make it (Yes it should), but... that’s where it’s at.
And then again, a lot of you guys expressed disapproval for Darkling/Alina, discussing how it is often one-sided and manipulative and overall unhealthy, so I could be completely off with that last one. Some people mentioned that they ship this but as a slightly different version that the one given to us, recognising the flaws of the canon ship.
Someone said they headcanon Tolya as aroace (OMG YES!!). We need more aroace characters, so thank you for that headcanon :) We also have a few gay ships mentioned here, and one person telling us they love Malina. Yes, you’re right - it’s pretty unpopular, it turns out. Someone else said Alina should’ve been single, and I agree, actually!
One person rickrolled me here. Thankfully, Youtube’s ads saved me. *wipes forehead*
I leave you all with this, in the end:
Notes from the Survey
Statistics Stuff:
The top ships were taken from AO3, so some ships may be more focused on in other books and may not provide accurate statistics for an earlier series.
The main circles this was sent around may have had bias as most people are from the same discord server, which has debated these topics in the past. Hence certain ships may have lower-than-average results. In future, this could be improved upon by sending this to other servers and areas of the fandom.
Personal bias may be present in the analysis, though I have tried to minimise this in the more formal sections.
Observations and Notes from Me:
You guys really don’t like Darklina. Or you love it. Usually one or the other. Wow.
Be glad I didn’t talk about any of the cursed ships in this. The things I have seen... (:cowboi_eyes:)
I thought more people would rickroll me, ngl.
What Surprised You Guys:
Kaz/Inej/Jesper
A few of you guys saw some of those cursed ships, and that surprised you. Well, me too!
Nikolai ships being in the TV Show section at all, what with his character not being in the show (yeah what was up with that huh tztz)
Inej/Alina
The existence of The Severed Moon
Darkling/Nikolai(/Alina)
How fun the quiz was :D
Things You Sent Me:
Bee Movie copypasta
“Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition!”, except via an AO3 link
A fun fact about enzymes! I liked this one
Fic recs for Feriku and Sarai (esp for Wylan/Jesper shippers)
Another rickroll
Nice compliments :) aww you guys
I asked everyone for some kind of placeholder name and never used it. Sorry! But hey, anonymity, right?
Closing Statements
If you got this far (I feel like ive been sitting here for hours), thanks for reading! This was fun to do and I hope you enjoyed all of this too! The survey is still open for anyone who hasn’t done it but wants to. If I get a huge amount of new responses, I might update this post! But for now, adios!
-mod emily (and mod fritz)
#grishaverse#fandom#shipping#shadow and bone#six of crows#nikolai series#king of scars#the grisha trilogy
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WE FUCKING MADE IT Y’ALL
this essay, “Of Spinoffs and Spinning Off” by Louisa Stein, is a published academic work that mentions cambionverse by name as part of a 700-page book about fandom studies!? HOLY SHIT??!? this was published in 2018 but it took the sheer chaotic SPN-returns energy of 2020 for us to stumble across it. astounding. love this for us
(quick aside to caveat that of course we were not the inventors of the Team Free Will 2.0 concept, it was already well-established before our first fic posted in 2011, and “Cambionverse” as a name is pretty specific to our fic series and not something people use for all fandom content that happens to feature Ben/Jesse/Claire. BUT STILL, shoutout to literally anyone who has made fanwork of our verse over the past ten years because YOU’RE FAMOUS NOW TOO)
(second aside to say “it is also entirely possible that the creators of the eventual canon version of Claire drew inspiration from the prior fan authored versions of teenage Claire.” U DON’T SAY)
Text from the screencaps below:
“To my mind, there is no better example to demonstrate the politics of the “official” spinoff in conversation with energies and labors of fan spinning off than the longrunning fanbeloved TV series Supernatural, and so for the rest of this chapter I will use Supernatural as my case study. I do not mean to suggest that the spinning off that occurs by the hands of Supernatural fans is necessarily different in quality or significance than that of other series, fans, and fandoms, past and present. Rather I turn to Supernatural because its now 12year run offers a wealth of snapshots of different modes of industrial and fan spinning off, and the relationships and tensions between the two.
[...]
Spinning Off to a Better Text: The Cambionverse
Also in Textual Poachers, Henry Jenkins talked about how fan authorship (often) emerged from dissatisfaction as much as from enthusiasm on the part of fans. Elsewhere I have argued that fan works can be seen as critique as well as supplement in that they point to holes, to misrepresentations, to gaps, to things left wanting (Stein forthcoming). Some fan spinoff verses—like the Endverse—seem to cumulatively build on the source text, giving us more of what the text offered, and thus do not seem to be oppositional to the source text. But even such works that follow clear markers in the source text can be read as critique. Fan authorship of “Down to Agincourt” and other Endverse works function as critique as they voice fan desires for different narratives and themes, along the lines of: “We want more Endverse; We want darker tales that blur morality further; we want a darker version of Dean, a continued depiction of
Sam and Lucifer, a more extended stay with drug and sex fixated Castiel.”
At the same time, spinoff verses can find their origin in critique driven by fan desire to fix some of the consistent perceived failings of the source text. For Supernatural, this means that fans envision and author spinoffs that feature female characters, people of color, and queer characters (and characters who merge these identity markers) who don’t get killed. For example, in between season eight and nine, fans envisioned a version of Supernatural that
centered on powerful female “big bad” Abaddon, rather than relegating her to marginal, doomed, and finally unimportant figure. At around the same time, fans authored the first stories in what they termed Cambionverse, also referred to as “Team Free Will 2.0.” The Cambionverse envisioned the next generation of hunters, comprised of characters who had (then) only been featured in single episodes. One of these characters at the center of this fan envisioned spinoff was Claire Novak, daughter of Jimmy Novak, whose body the angel Castiel possessed. Like the Endverse, Claire Novak had offered story and character potential that the Supernatural series seemed to overlook but that resonated with fans. Thus, as fans continued to write stories featuring Claire together with other oneoff characters Jesse Turner and Ben Braeden, these stories to a certain degree served as critique of Supernatural’s poor story choices and flawed ideologies of representation.
Fans spin critique into new work with all the transmedia tools and then some that they deploy for the televisual source. Cambionverse creators create fic, GIF sets, vids, art, meta, and fanmixes (musical playlists created and shared on interfaces like 8Tracks and Tumblr, http://8tracks.com/explore/cambionverse/popular/1). This active transmedia spread positions Cambionverse as an expansive multimedia universe in its own right with the fic at the center, but as was the case with “Down to Agincourt,” there is arguably more collaborative feedback with less purposefully clear policing of the lines drawn between “official” and “unofficial” authorship. The Cambionverse spreads across multiple platforms deployed by fans, including An Archive of Our Own, Tumblr, and 8Tracks, spun by multiple authors in multiple forms. Thus, the Cambionverse demonstrates how transmedia authorship and the multiplicitous transmedia landscape further destabilize traditional notions of authorial control.
[...]
Fan literacies extend beyond close textual analysis of the series to knowledge about the politics and potential of Supernatural’s future production, to a larger production literacy regarding the creation of spinoffs, as we have seen in fan coordination and campaigns for the Supernatural spinoff Wayward Daughters. Arguably, the concept for Wayward Daughters emerged from the same fan impulse that birthed the Cambionverse: the desire to tell the stories of characters with strong potential who were underused or introduced in an episode, and who were left underdeveloped yet with strong narrative potential. In response to these rich narrative gaps, fans told Claire Novak’s story through to her teenage years. They wrote various versions of Claire’s narrative in the years between her character’s first (one episode long) introduction in Supernatural’s fourth season and her eventual return six years later in the series’ tenth season. By the time the official Supernatural writers cast Claire as a teenager and brought her to the screen, fandom had already fleshed out her character and narrative. Supernatural actor Kathryn Newton came to fill a character already fleshed out in the fan imagination, in GIF sets, vids, featuring actors from other media fancast to serve the character of Claire, and drawn and painted by fan imagination in lines inspired by these fan castings and by individual interpretation. Both fans and the Supernatural producers were working with the same source and question: what would Claire Novak as we saw her in season four be like as a teenager, given her physical qualities and personal trajectory? Thus, perhaps it is not surprising that the teenage Claire Novak of eventual Supernatural “canon” looked quite a bit like the fan imagined Claire, blonde but sullen, a rebellious teenager with an angelic chip on her shoulder (and in the world of Supernatural, the descriptor angelic is not a compliment ...). Of course, given the visibility of fan work and the knowledge of fandom displayed by Supernatural producers, it is also entirely possible that the creators of the eventual “canon” version of Claire drew inspiration from the prior fan authored versions of teenage Claire.”
Louisa Stein is Associate Professor of Film & Media Culture at Middlebury College, Vermont, USA. Her work on gender and generation in media culture and transmedia authorship has appeared in numerous journals and anthologies. She is a book review editor for Cinema Journal and the Journal of Transformative Works and Cultures. She is coeditor of the collections Teen Television (McFarland, 2008) and Sherlock and Transmedia Fandom (McFarland, 2012). Her book Millennial Fandom: Television Audiences in the Transmedia Age was published by the University of Iowa Press in Fall 2015.
In conclusion:
^ This artwork is now famous.
#cambionverse#claire novak#jesse turner#ben braeden#fandom studies#fanworks#does that tag count for this????#this textbook is worth 162 american dollars#and we are in it our fanfiction is real#I'm shooketh#what do you MEAN the real world can see us in here#frankly if we're going to do this they should all be paying us
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You mentioned being "out of step" with much of the Shameless (Gallavich?) fandom in one of your last posts, and this fandom lurker felt strongly enough to actually ACTIVELY RESPOND. I can't speak for the fandom as a whole, but there is at least one fan (hint: she's showing up uninvited in your asks this very second!) who truly appreciates your takes.
(Pt 2, because brevity? Never met her.) There seems to be a swell of Ian hate as of late, as as someone who is an Ian fan, it can be deflating and frustrating in equal parts. He's fascinating and sweet and ABSOLUTELY flawed, but that's part of what makes the character interesting. It's getting hard to see the double standards in regards to some of those flaws, though. Everyone has rights to their own feelings, obvs, and normally I scroll on by - but it's hard to avoid it entirely these days.
(Part 3 - now this is getting embarrassing.) Point is, I've really appreciated your takes on some of these... touchier topics. I love that you defend Ian as a whole (he just wants to heeeelp people!) while still acknowledging his faults. It's lovely to see someone with such thoughtful, articulate takes on the character and on Shameless stories in general.
You shouldn’t be embarrassed at all! This seriously made my day to read (and is the first multi-part ask I’ve ever gotten)! 🥺🧡 Before joining this fandom, I’ve pretty much always been a lurker myself. I write my fics and reblog beautiful gifsets and keep my thoughts in tags that I can be confident no one will read. This is the first fandom where people did and encouraged me to turn my tag whispers into more active engagement, and it really does mean so much to know that my own analysis can contribute in any way, unpopular as much of it may be at times. (I tried to lurk here too, but @luckyshazmrsmonaghansblog and @gallavictorious wouldn’t let me 😉)
My posts lately haven’t been quite as...tactful as I normally attempt to be, and I truly hope that I haven’t offended anyone with my interpretations of these touchier subjects or mentions of this double-standard we’ve noticed. The sheer volume of those posts and asks, both directed at Ian and to the show in general, are just so disheartening. I’ve seen a lot of instances where Ian is repeatedly called a “himbo,” referred to as stupid, and ultimately just reduced to “muscular man with no brain who selfishly hurts his cute, small, helpless husband’s feelings so often the latter should have left by now to find his better life and who he truly is.” Then the writers are blamed when these interpretations seem to be predominantly rooted in fanon—in fanfiction stereotypes that transcend this fandom and are reproduced in all the others I’ve been part of regardless of canon characterization.
As you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion and interpretation. If you prefer fanon to canon, there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that! And it’s certainly true that nobody has to like Ian. I just wish that he (and really anybody on the show who isn’t Mickey, whom I also love, just for the record) could be viewed as a complex character who will do the right things, do the wrong things, and do all manner of things in between without there needing to be that element of taking sides.
What I love about the show and especially their relationship is that, from start to finish, it’s been rooted in their imperfection. It’s real. That’s why I’m more invested in this romance than I ever have been in other fictional pairings. They’ve both hurt each other, intentionally and unintentionally, and their flaws as people have had as much of an impact on their relationship as their strengths. They chose each other, fully aware of their shortcomings and loving those too. That’s how I approach my understanding of the show—of any media I consume—and these characters, and I really am so glad that it can mean something even to just a few people besides myself. I’m so happy that you enjoy them and that they help! 🧡
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Why Is Draco Malfoy So Underrated?
A repost of a Quora answer because Quora hates me for some reason
@vivithefolle i take little convincing here I go -
SO!
You. Yeah, you. You, nebulous quora questioner, you think Malfoy is underrated, do you? Well I, CescaLR, am here to set the record straight. The following is the answer I posted to Quora, that was flagged with ‘answer may need improvement’, which means some asshole was trawling the answers to the question posted and didn’t like mine so they had the moderators hide it because said person doesn’t like differing opinions. This post is thereby an archive, so if my answer is never again allowed to see the light of day on Quora, at least my maths is visible elsewhere.
Hopefully, this entertains you, tumblr user reading this post. Also, as fair warning, if you do like Draco Malfoy and somehow stumbled across this post, I recommend skipping it.
Why is Draco Malfoy so underrated?
Fleur Lee-Ranger
Author of 857406 words of fanfiction and counting.
ANSWER:
HAHAHAHA.
Ha.
Ha.
hah…..
For god’s sake, I hope you’re not serious.
Let’s look at YouTube, first:
Does 2.2 million f*cking views on a woobie Draco edit seem like he’s underrated to you? Any character that gets 2.2 million views on an edit that interprets the character in a sympathetic, caring light…. Jesus Christ. They’re not underrated.
You could make a clear argument for them being overrated, by matter of fact!
The first result is his entire life story, and a redemption of the Malfoy family as a whole, and it’s… super popular!
look at that! 70k likes versus 1.7k dislikes. Let’s use my favourite maths thing once again: Ratios!!
(I hate ratios. The things I do to prove a point, eh?)
This video has 5201431 million views. It has around 70k likes, 1.1k dislikes. We’ll round 5201431, as 70k and 1.1k are both rounded numbers and I can’t be bothered to deal with numbers that are too complicated right now, it’s nearly nine pm. 5201431 -> 5.2 million. It’s the rounded number YouTube itself uses on the search page - check the first image if you don’t believe me, and since YouTube thinks that’s good enough, so will we.
5200000 : 70000 : 1100
52000 : 700 : 11
Divide all by 11 (and round awkward numbers, because we’re already dealing in rounded numbers anyway, which is kind of bad practice, but it’ll do for this context):
4,727 : 64 : 1
As I’ve proven before (not on Quora, you can probably find it in the comments of one of my fanfictions, I’ll end up moving it over here one day when I find the right question), fandom content engagement rates are always pretty bad. But honestly? every four thousand or so views, you get 64 likes, compared to just one dislike. That’s great! That’s incredible! I’d kill for those kinds of ratings!!
(Draco’d probably wimp out, though. hehe. Jokes, jokes.)
As for his woobie video:
2.3m : 152k : 715
2300000 : 153000 : 715
Nice, don’t need to remove any superfluous zeroes. Bad, for… well, your hypothesis, to put it nicely, since that means there are only seven hundred and fifteen goddamn dislikes on this video, what the f*ck, why do so many people like this b*stard child.
Ahem. Sorry, that’s rude to illegitimate children like myself. There is nothing wrong with having unmarried parents.
…Anyway, lets slim down that ratio:
3217 : 214 : 1
Holy sh*t. I would do more than kill for this ratio. Oh my god.
That’s some great engagement there. So many likes! Clearly, Draco dearie is a very popular boy! He’d love that. I hate this on principle. God am I glad 13 year old me didn’t really use YouTube (I watched gaming content and little else, didn’t even find fandom content until 2015) or I’d have contributed one of those likes, probably.
Oh wait, no! Never mind! I can’t have contributed one of those likes, because this f*cking video was posted last year!!!!!
LAST GODDAMN YEAR!!!!
Do you understand that? Do you - do you have any idea how - just how difficult it is to get that many views that quickly and with that good an engagement???? Do you???????? It has been, get this, seven, seven whole f*cking months, Less time than it takes to make a baby, and this f*cking video has 2,265,900!!! million!!!! views!!!! With a ratio of 214 likes to one goddamn dislike.
oh my god.
oh my god
oh my god
I’m having a minor mental breakdown. Jesus f*cking H Christ on a goddamn bike.
Look at these comments! Look at how many likes they have!! Oh my god!!!! Draco Malfoy might just be one of the most beloved characters ever to get this sort of reaction, for hell’s sake!
I don’t know what kind of dunderhead you are to not notice how f*cking popular this jackass little b*stard boy is, but god, the whiny little sh*t has more fans than oh, I don’t know. Someone really popular. Tom Holland? I don’t know celebrities. Sorry.
But my point is, for god’s sake, Malfoy isn’t underrated. I don’t know what rock you’ve been living under, my friend, but that sheer idolisation you so crave of your wimpy f*cking husband is right there in front of you! Just search his name, and you’ll see it front and goddamn centre. Those of us that don’t worship the ground he walks on are generally much more background.
For god’s sake, he’s a trope namer.
Draco In Leather Pants.
How much more evidence do you need than that?
Of course, I could be jumping the gun. You could be a fan of his that is frustrated by the fanon interpretation of his character. ‘Why is he reduced to a bad boy with a heart of gold when actually he’s a more complicated asshole with sh*tty morality and no backbone that gives a whole ass damn about his family but not much else?’ Good question! Blame Cassie Claire, though I suppose that’s my go-to for most things.
Seriously though; Draco Malfoy is not even remotely overrated. He’s a whiny, terrible, useless waste of space in the books; and in fandom, he’s transformed into a cool, collected, redeemable or outright good person who’s smart and talented and like, super hot you guys, doesn’t he look cute with Hermione/Harry/Insert Author’s Projected Character Here?!!!!
Also: Y’all are f*cking creeps for this shit:
THAT’S A SCENE FROM WHEN THE KID IS TWELVE, FOR GOD’S SAKE. I’m not even joking, half of you are nonces and I want nothing to do with you! ‘hot draco malfoy edits’ HE’S TWELVE
HE’S TWELVE
HE’S TWELVE.
Hot take time:
Draco Malfoy is overhyped, overrated, and oversexualised and I want all of this to stop, because you’re doing it to Tom Felton, when he was a child. A child! That’s creepy! Please do not make hot edits of children, thank you!!!!!
Someone call the police. I’m done with this f*cking fandom, oh my god.
(Also, if you think I edited that in like some sick weirdo might do, just go find that video and give it a watch. I wouldn’t if I were you, I’d believe me, because watching that video probably puts you on a watchlist somewhere.
It should.)
Okay. Deep breaths. It’s been a few months, this answer was flagged with the wonderfully opaque ‘this answer may need improvement’, and I’m back to refine this. I’m not taking anything out, but I’m adding some extra investigation. For posterity’s sake; the original answer only contained YouTube analysis. Let’s look through Archive Of Our Own, shall we?
As I showed in my answer re: the well-liked-ness of Lilly and Hermione, this is the number of total fics within the HP tag.
This is the number of tags when ‘Draco Malfoy’ is added to the ‘included characters’ filter.
So, in terms of ‘fandom work presence’ (AO3 is mostly fanfic, but it is not all fanfic, there are a few vids and some art on there, too) Malfoy’s ratio is thus:
254603:65469
3.8889… : 1
4 : 1
So, rounding up, for every four works on AO3, there is one that includes Draco dearie. Good lord, he’s pervasive, isn’t he? Can’t turn a corner in the fandom without seeing his pasty ferret face plastered all over the walls… lovely.
Now, once again - that wasn’t the best ratio. I didn’t remove bashing, for example, so not all those works will be positive (as in, since you think he’s underrated, that means - I assume - you think people don’t like him enough) so let’s go the long mile:
I will find a ratio for Mr Malfoy Jr’s fans, versus his haters, in terms of - how many fics bash Malfoy, and how many greatly enjoy his existence?
Add the bashing tag, and now let’s see how many fics there are with a) Draco in it, and b) Draco Bashing:
hahahhahagag;k;asdkf
Oh no!
Oh my god I dodn’t…. one second… give me just one second….
Right. Laughing fit over, okay. 17.
So, 65469 works with Draco present, 17 of which don’t like him overmuch, and 65452 like him just fine/present him as he appears in canon! Awesome. Of course, people who present him as he is in canon may not like him the way you want him to, so, not awesome? Hmm. I’m not sure how to filter for that. I suppose you wouldn’t want people who write him OOC, though, because that’s not rating him properly, is it? Should we add OOC to the bashing, to get people who don’t appreciate his… many positive character traits… to the extent that you would like?
Yes, I think we should.
Now, there’s no tag for ‘OOC Draco Malfoy’, because that would make my life too easy. And, I’m not going through 151 works to figure out which ones have Draco being the one OOC. If they’ve written one person OOC, and they’re self-aware enough to tag it, then I’m going to meanly assume they’ve written Draco OOC as well. When one person’s out of whack, I’ve found everyone else is, too, so I’m not just doing this to be a dick, I promise, it’s for a real, good, understandable reason, one that is not only because I really don’t want to have to do any maths more complicated than basic ratios.
So. 151 OOC works, 17 bashing works. 168 works of not properly appreciated Draco Malfoy, coming up, which takes our 65469 Draco works down to… 65301.
Well, that’s a lot, still.
So, there’s still some tags to remove, like Evil, and Abusive, and all that lark. I’ll go do that quickly, and come back with the maths.
(okay, but I do have to show this:)
(fourteen works in the ‘Evil’ draco tag?? are you serious???)
(oh and you can’t filter by Abusive Draco Malfoy, like that’s not a tag, so I can’t exclude it, but it really adds to the general atmosphere of ‘Draco Malfoy? Yeah he’s cool I like him’ that this fandom has going on, doesn’t it?)
Alright so! We really only could take away those 14 works. Okay.
By the way, just so you know - I didn’t exclude tags like ‘Death Eater Draco Malfoy’ and ‘Bully Draco Malfoy’ (if the latter even exists), because those are things that happen in canon, and when I think of a character as being ‘underrated’ I include not acknowledging their canon actions, the bad and the good. A character is only as good as their complexities run deep.
So.
For the ratio, I guess;
65469 : 151 : 17 : 14
4,676.3571… : 10.7857… : 1.2142… : 1
4,676 : 11 : 1 : 1
…
Hmm.
For every 4 thousand 6 hundred fics Draco appears in, 11 of them have OOC tagged, 1 of them has Draco Bashing tagged, and 1 of them has Evil Draco tagged. That is…
That is unfathomably good. I’m really, genuinely having a hard time picturing it. I really, honestly, don’t think there’s been a character as unquestionably overrated as Draco Malfoy in all of fandom, because, good lord, look at that ratio! People love the guy!
Let’s see the good draco malfoy tag, shall we?
Now, to be fair, most people don’t bother tagging any of this sort of thing, usually, so that’s a minor flaw in my ratio-ing. We can’t actually know exactly how many works laud Malfoy, or hate him, or feel ambivalent, because people don’t tag their shit properly. But I’m hoping this helps, at least a little. Anyway, 905! That’s a few. Not many, but certainly more than Evil or Bashing or even OOC.
65469 : 905 : 151 : 17 : 14
4,676.3571… : 64.6428 : 10.7857… : 1.2142… : 1
4,676 : 65 : 11 : 1 : 1
Yep. That’s not bad, not bad at all.
So. Most people seem to like him, if we’re honest. As I pointed out above, he’s a trope namer. If you didn’t click on the link for Draco In Leather Pants, here’s a brief summary from the TV Tropes page:
[ Transcription:
Sometimes, a fanwork will portray a villainous character in a more positive light. It can be done out of sympathy for the character, for shipping reasons, as a part of a role-reversal story, several of the aforementioned or for the variety of other reasons.
The common subjects of this treatment are characters who are wicked in a classy or cool way. A physically attractive villain is much more likely to be subject to this trope than a physically ugly one; Beauty = Goodness, after all, and shallow as it may be, it seems that, for some fans, this is the case even when the character's beauty only extends to their appearance. All Girls Want Bad Boys may be a factor with male villains getting a female fandom that views them through this lens. A badass villain will naturally be preferred by many of these over meeker heroic characters at times, as well. Ugly Cute villains also get this pretty easily. ]
So! There’s that. He named a trope all about appreciating a character perhaps (usually definitely) more than they deserve, so I wouldn’t call him ‘underrated’ by most general definitions of the word:
People seem to mostly believe him to be quite good, actually! Certainly enough to write about him a lot, to draw him a lot, to edit him a lot, to theorise about him a lot, to ship him with the main character so much that the 99th filter ever on AO3 was Draco Malfoy/Harry Potter.
Hey, actually, that’s a good idea! Which filter id is Draco Malfoy?
Now, if I’m not mistaken, it’s been a while since I had to do this -
Draco Malfoy was the 1589th tag canonised in the tag system of AO3. Let’s check the Draco Malfoy/Harry Potter tag (which I know for certain was 99) to make sure:
And lo and behold, I was right. That’s mad. That’s mad!!!!
Ooh, I’ve found a fun trick
To change which rss feed you’re looking at, copy the https:// link up to .atom in the speech marks, and change the highlighted number. That shows you what uses that tag_ids: - in this case, 93 is Draco himself. The 93rd tag, dedicated to Draco Malfoy. Good lord, that’s insane! I guess there really weren’t many other things to prioritize at the time, but that’s still silly to me.
Fluff and Angst appears to be the fiftieth tag canonised, for comparison. Sometimes when you replace the rss feed’s ‘tag’ in the address bar it takes you to the tag’s page instead of the feed, because that tag doesn’t have an rss feed. The more you know!
Anyway, back on track: I think all of that, rss feeds, youtube analytics, fandom presence, all kind of proves my point:
Draco Malfoy is not underrated. He is, arguably, overrated as a character, but unarguably very popular within the greater Harry Potter fandom. Unpopular characters don’t tend to get paired with the lead, at the very least - and you can’t turn around in the Harry Potter fandom without seeing Drarry somewhere, can you?
#anyway#anti draco malfoy#hp#hp fandom#harry potter#meta#fandom meta#quora#fandom bullshit#long post#sorry mobile users!! very sorry
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Let’s take a break from specific fandoms to talk about:
Platform Wars
In 2020, we’re all asking what’s next after Tumblr. This is nothing new. “Is thing X killing thing Y?” is a question fandom has been asking since long before Escapade. But these panels offer comfort and insight into our current fear of change.
They’re also fucking hilarious.
So, without further ado, here are some past Escapade panels on the subject of Change Is Scary:
1997 - Effects of the Internet on Fandom & Slash (On the upside: more fans, more conventions, more excitement and a 24-hour party. On the downside: are the connections more shallow? Are the changes made to "fandom as we knew it" change what we enjoy? Do print fans have something to fear? Or is this simple another wave?)
2000 - Less is More: Gluttony & the Decline of Quality in Fanfic
2004 - Amusing Ourselves to Death (Fannish Discourse in the the Age of the Internet By sheer quantity, has the quality of our conversation declined to predominantly static?)
2004 - LiveJournal, Boon or Bane? (Has the advent of LiveJournal brought about the demise of mailing lists? Has it splintered the venue for discussion to the point where it's impossible to have meaningful conversation? Is the LJ phenomenon just one big egotrip? Come join us to discuss these and other questions.)
2007 - Is F’locked the New Black (Is the flocked post the future of fan communication? Are we returning to the dark ages of closed lists, zines under the table, and "have to know someone"? More and more LJ posts are locked, communities are closed, and groups are invitation only. Is there a way to protect our RL selves (and our fannish selves), yet share our fannish commentary and fic? How does this all look to a newbie? Where is our new comfort zone? And how do we keep track of all of this?)
2008 - The Organization for Transformative Works (The Best Thing Since Ever, or the End Of Days? The OTW is an incorporated nonprofit organization established by fans to serve the interests of fans in multiple ways, including by providing open-source archive software (and an archive), legal assistance, and various efforts to preserve the history of fanworks and fan culture.)
2011 - Delicious - Rumors of Death Greatly Exaggerated? (Delicious, fandom's favorite bookmarking site may be getting shut down (or at least sold out) by The Man. What to do?)
2016 - Fandom Is Fic: from BNF to TL;DR. (From paper through Usenet to Livejournal, text was king. On Tumblr, long text is an imposition—isn’t it? Has fic been dethroned from its place at the top of the heap and fic-writing BNFs along with it? Discuss the dirty little social dynamics of the shifting patterns of fannish value and how we define 'fandom' itself. And what of zines and zine eds?)
2017 - The Kids Are Not the Problem (In recent years, media fandom has grown enormously. It has also scattered, spreading out to new platforms and meeting spaces. You often hear talk about "the kids" vs. "the olds," Tumblr vs. LiveJournal, or the problem of recruiting and retaining new fans. In this panel, let’s try flipping that script. If kids are not the problem, how can we change and grow? What awesome things are other fans doing/trying that people at Escapade should know about? Most importantly, what strategies can we use to leave our fannish bubbles and more fully experience fandom in 2017?)
2019 - The fall of tumblr (Fans have always looked for a good place to build communities on line. Recent events with Tumblr and other platforms like Facebook are restricting our gathering places and even blocking and purging our self-made content. How are people dealing with this? Fandom will survive, but where? Come discuss the problems and options out there.)
And below the cut, a whole bunch more panels on platforms and change:
1991 - Quality Control in Zine Publication/Economics of Fandom (Who is making money in fandom? Should they be? How accountable are fans? Editors? Artists? Have you ever written an LOC?)
1993 - Supply and Demand in Fandom (Can we have too much of a good thing? How many cons or zine is too many? Are we glutting the market?)
1994 - Changing Nature of Fannish Communication (E-mail, and virtual zines, computer video editing and morphing -- all the new toys at our disposal...)
1996 - Internet—Will it eat your brain? Or take you to the poorhouse? (Nearly everyone has or can get access to a computer and thereby the Internet and the World Wide Web. What's out there for fans? What should you look for? What might you want to watch out for? How can you protect your pocketbook at the same time?)
1997 - Net Fiction & Print Fiction (Is the very existence of net fic changing the characteristics or reducing the quantity of print fic? Are there really stylistic and/or content differences? What makes some shows predominantly produce netfic, while others happily generate both? How do the barriers of access to each affect the fan community?)
1997 - History of Fan Socialization (Was fandom really different in the "old days"? Was there a feeling of community that we're missing now? Or is that just nostalgia clouding our memories? In today's net-connected fandom, what is (or should be) different? And what elements of the past should we try and retain?)
1998 - Professionals: Is the Circuit Dead? (Or has it just moved on-line? Is Pros fandom split on the subject of the internet? Many old circuit writers don't want anything to do with the new on-line library. They have objected to having their stories retyped an sent out, even on private e-mail. Has the paper circuit given way to the on-line library?)
1998 - Netfic Formatting A: How to Print It Prettily (An instructional panel, covering the basics of formatting, macros, and other time-saving tips to get the results you want.)
1998 - Privacy and Community: Pseudonyms, Screen Names and Face-to-Face Meetings (As more and more fandom is found online, how are we adapting to the anonymity that comes with it?)
1998 - Netfic Formatting B: From Word to Web, Making Shapely Net Slash (This panel is for everyone who wants to venture into the world of online slash, but gets nervous when faced with the myriad technical difficulties. Relax, it's easier than you think. We look at stylistic conventions, how to make your work newsgroup and e-mail friendly, and the dreaded subject header alphabet soup. We'll also cover some basic info on how to make a www archive site user friendly.)
1998 - Crossing the Line (An instructional panel on how to get what you want (more stories) in a world that may be unfamiliar to you (the web for print fans, and the insular world of zines for net fans).)
1999 - Does Print Fandom Have a Future? (In the age of instant, free net fic, is print fandom a dinosaur on its way to extinction, or a promise of reasonable quality in a sea of mediocrity? What are the key differences between zines and netfic, and what are the advantages and disadvantages of each? Can the two coexist happily? )
2000 - Promoting Critique on Mailing Lists (How to promote critical discussion and attention to the mechanics of writing on email lists?)
2000 - Changing Power Dynamics in Fandom (With the decline of zine editors and growth of the Net, what's changed, and how does it affect us and our fanfic?)
2001 - Website Workshop 2 by the lady of shalott (Setting up and maintaining a fanfic archive, and in particular how to set up the Automated Archive software used by 852 Prospect and the Due South archives.) [NB: Yes, she went through a bunch of name versions before ‘astolat’.]
2002 - How to run a Fiction Archive (and Maintain Your Sanity)
2002 - Nobody Here But Us Sockpuppets (How multiple personality disorder takes on a whole new meaning in the world of mailing lists.)
2003 - Getting slash onto your PalmPilot for computer free reading
2003 - Recs Databases! Creation and Commiseration (Do you run a recs database and want to commiserate? Do you currently have a recs page and want to become database-driven? Want to talk about the relative merits of using PHP, MySQL, or Access to organize smut?)
2003 - How to Set Up and Maintain Fanfiction Archives (If you're thinking of running an archive, or already do and need some help, this is the panel for you. We'll cover everything from choosing a method of archiving, handling fandom growth, dealing with troublemakers, and just how much time, webspace and money are we talking, anyway? Come pick the archivists' brains.)
2003 - Has Escapade Run Its Course (Scuttlebut says: It's not like it used to be. My old friends don't come any more. My new friends can't get in. It's too big. It's too small. Oxnard, for god's sake? I'm getting sick and tired of the same shit year after year. Is Escapade old and tired? Does it need to be retired?)
2004 - HTML and Website Introduction (if you don't have a website and want to create one. where doyoustart'This will cover creating basic HTML pages and common webhosting options, as well as things to think about as you set iin vour first website.)
2005 - Where Have All The Good Conversations Gone? Rise & Fall of the Escapade Panel (Are people still interested in talking about the characters, plots, and themes of their shows? Has in-depth analysis of our fandoms been abandoned in favor of meta and fannish introspection? The forums for analytical discussion are disappearing as self-censorship and over-moderation increase. Can we change this? Do we want to?)
2005 - The Fannish Wiki (So we have the directorium, the directory of All Things Fannish. We visit it and it's just so cool, and we look for our fandom to see what it says... and it's not there! How to add it? What sort of info belongs there? How does a wiki work?)
2005 - I Was So Much Older Then, I'm Younger Than That Now (We've all heard about or lived through the tumultuous era when fandom moved online. But how has slash fandom, particularly slash fandom, changed since then? Are the changes the result of online fandom, or simply of a change in culture?)
2005 - Fanfic Archives (Setting up and administering fanfic archives: concepts, considerations, techniques.)
2006 - Putting your fic on the web (Basic skills for putting your fic on the web, including building your own very basic website, using LJ as a fic-site building tool, various options for labeling adult content, and using the standard upload interfaces for popular self-submit story archive software.)
2006 - Nifty Technology and the Future of Fandom (Fandom is quick to adapt to change and continues to bring fen together and to create fannish product. Fans have thrived regardless of how they communicate; via the post office, mailing lists, message boards, and Livejournal; they've pushed the frontiers of video and audio technology; and have managed to survive changes in copyright, pornography, and other laws. What are the upcoming trends and shiny new technologies on the horizon and how will fen use them to enhance fandom?)
2006 - Intermediate Webmastering (Designing your website for usability, options for restricting access to your website, making your stories easily accessed by mobile devices, and things to consider so fans can easily locale your site.)
2007 - Free Webtools and How to Take Fandom Advantage (Lots of free tools are available on the web to help the needy fan! Tools to edit pictures, make icons, write stories, share recommendations, share stories, and be fannish are becoming more available and more user friendly. Come chat about tools like del.icio.us, google docs, pxn8 audacity, itunes, the gimp, bittorrent, imeem, youtube and lll other things that you come and tell us about!)
2008 - E-book Readers (Sony PRS-505 or Amazon Kindle what's all the fuss about? Introduction to E-Ink and other mobile devices. What are the pros and cons of various devices? Where do you find e- books and fan fiction, and most importantly how do you get fan fiction formatted so you can read it on your ebook reader?)
2008 - If You Build It, Will They Come? (Roundtable on meta fannish infrastructure building strategies. bethbethbeth can talk about some of the specific challenges OTW is facing in its brave new fan territory, while oulangi can talk about why metafandom has flourished while very similar projects have failed, while we'll both discuss some of the challenges of the established meta/fannish structure of new communities, new fans, new technologies—and most of all, how do you keep the meta-fan conversation moving forward?)
2008 - Livejournal: Should Fans Take Their Business Elsewhere? (A discussion of the pros and cons of fannish communication on the various blogging entities.)
2008 - How to Find and Use Free Stuff on the Web (All kinds of free webapps are available for fic, art, icons, communication, and all sort of other fannish stuff. Come share favorite sites—we can bookmark everything we talk about on del.icio.us in real time!)
2009 - The Organization for Transformative Works (Off the ground and starting to soar! Come here about the latest developments in the OTW's projects and discuss where you'd like to see it go next.)
2010 - Is Somebody Taking Notes On This?: A Discussion of the Role of Fannish History (In honor of Escapade's 20th anniversary, let's talk about recording fannish history. What are the challenges? Is it worth doing? Can it be done in a fair way? What are we afraid of happening if we try? Is Fanlore the right vehicle for the project?)
2010 - The OTW in Its Third Year led by Elke Tanzer and Shoshanna (Okay, sure, the Organization for Transformative Works bought its own goddamn servers and hosted an archive (that hosted Yuletide) and published a journal (with a special issue on Supernatural) and saved a bunch of Geocities sites and testified at the DMCA hearings (supporting the FFF's proposed exemptions for vidders and other remix artists) and made a bunch of lolcats—but what have they done for us lately? [5] What do you want them to do?)
2010 - We Are All Naked (On The Internet Now) led by treewishes (Social networking platforms like Facebook and Twitter are conspiring with Google and your ISP to out your slash pseudonym to your RL friends, and to tell all your slash buddies your real name. Is there any way to stop the wave of facial recognition software or your oh-so-helpful friends who type your birthday into the cloud? Or is all this an inevitable consequence of evolving technology? Come on in and let's talk conspiracy theories!)
2011 - Fanlore: Are BNFs Writing Our History?, led by Sandy H (Fanlore has an official policy of 'plural points of view', but is that really happening? Have you ever looked up a kerfluffle you were involved in, and seen how your side of the battle was portrayed.' And on the other side, are we afraid of conflict, to the point that Fanlore is bland and safe?)
2011 - OTW/AO3 Wish List Conversation, led by Sandy H (Do you feel like you don't know how to get your A03 or OTW wishlist through the bureaucracy? A03 is getting better all the time, but there's a ways to go. Let's brainstorm and turn a list over at the end of the panel.)
2011 - The Reccing Crew (Recommending a fanwork is deeply woven into our culture. Are there new social mores at work when we make public recs? How has the move from letters to mailing lists to Livejournal and Delicious affected reccing? Delicious was conceived as a bookmarking site, but often operates as a recs and comments site. If it goes away, what would replace it?)
2012 - Tumblr, Twitter, and Pinboard, Oh My (and GetGlue, too!) (In the past year, the ongoing fannish diaspora has picked up speed, as more fannish activity has moved away from LiveJournal and Dreamwidth, and onto sites like Tumblr and Twitter. And then there was the Delicious implosion. Now there's GetGlue, a social network specifically for entertainment. Let's talk about navigating these sites—their strengths and weaknesses, and how to use them.)
2012 - The Kids These Days (Ever wanted to tell someone to get offa your lawn? Strangle the next person who said that? Revive a dead fandom? Joined a fandom you were 20 years "too old" (or young!) for? Did you go from Usenet to mailing lists? From zines to livejournal? Are you eyeing Tumblr and Twitter with alarm? Let's talk about weathering changes in fandom with grace—or at least a little humor.)
2013 - Privacy, Secrecy, and the Fourth Wall (The fourth wall between fans and The Powers That Be is shrinking day by day. Are the technologies we're using changing fannish etiquette {from invite-only mailing lists, to friends-locked journals, to all public all the time tumblr)? Should we run for the hills or embrace the change? Discuss!)
2013 - The What With the Where Now?! (Every time you turn around fandom is playing on a new site that has new functionality, new ways of interacting and new lingo. Join us in surveying places like tumblr, twitter and getglue.)
2014 - Tumblr: Missing Missing E (So you've just gotten the hang of Livejournal when all of a sudden fandom has jumped shipped to this new "microblogging" platform called Tumblr. What is "microblogging" anyway, and where do you even start? Join us in this tutorial/discussion on creating an account, deciphering the culture, finding fandom, and making Tumblr work for you.)
2014 - Out Of Step With the World (You have no current fandom. You can't even get Tumblr to load. What do you do when you're feeling disconnected and alienated, but you don't want to leave fandom for good? If this sounds like you, come join us to figure out some strategies for rekindling the love, making new friends, and finding your place.)
2014 - Real Fannish Community (Has AO3 ended the era of real fannish community or has it ushered in a new era of increased connectedness? Is Tumblr better or worse than the old days (and were the old days livejournal? yahoo groups? APA snail mail zine groups?)? I'm hoping for equal parts 'get off my lawn' and 'the future's so bright I gotta wear shades' debate here.)
2015 - Tumblr 102: Into Darkness. You’re here, now what? Here we talk about etiquette and xkit and making the most of your fannish tumblr experience.
2017 - Home on the Web (LJ's Russian overlords have removed HTTPS support and are moving the server activity to Russia; some say a shutdown of US services is on the horizon. Yahoo fails to make money with Tumblr. Dreamwidth is slow, and doesn't have media hosting. Email lists are a hassle. Imzy, a startup, places branding aesthetics over design usability. Where's the next place for fandom, or should we reclaim one or more of the platforms from the past?)
2018 - How to Tumblr (Like it or not (often, mostly not), tumblr is where fandom is most active right now. How do you find anything? How do you have conversations? How do you archive the bits you like best? The good news: the answers are not, "you don't; you don't; you don't." Bad news: Those aren't actually good questions for being fannish on tumblr.)
2019 - Social Network of Our Own (SNO3?) (Between FOSTA/SESTA, Article 13, Facebook's new "don't mention that sex exists" policy, and the Tumblrpocalypse, is it time for our own fannish social site? Or are Dreamwidth and Pillowfort enough?)
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Mapping La Sirena
Welcome one and all to the Mapping La Sirena Project!
If you are a fan of Star Trek: Picard and you would like to know more about the show’s most prominent ship, to check out floor plans and screencaps, and to discuss theories about the layout of this magnificent vessel, this is will be the place for you!
(Long, slightly rambly introduction and masterpost after the cut ;] )
Hi! My name is Lili and I’ve been a fan of pretty much all things Star Trek ever since I started watching Voyager at the tender age of 6. Besides the sometimes goofy, often brilliant storytelling and the wonderful characters, I always loved the worldbuilding of these shows - and in particularly the starships.
When Star Trek: Picard started airing a few months ago, I was immediately drawn to the main ship, La Sirena. The mixture of the monumental physical set, judiciously used CGI, and sheer attention to detail made me fall madly in love with this little mermaid, and I wanted to find out every little thing about her that I possibly could.
And since I imagine, I’m not the only one who feels this way, I decided to take you all on this journey with me!
What am I doing here?
As a reader and writer of fanfic, I know how helpful it can be to have a clear sense of the location your story is set in. When I realized that a good month after the final episode of ST:PIC season one aired, there still was no floor plan of La Sirena easily found on the web (easily = using my very limited googling-skills), I figured somebody had to sit down and do it. And apparently, that somebody was me. (May the gods help us all =D)
So, I sat myself down, and over the course of a few long days screencapped every single last scrap of Sirena that appears on the show. I now have a library of reference images and will post my progress as I work through them, trying to determine questions about the general layout of this ship, the details of its architecture and furnishings and all the questions that still remain. By the end of it, I am pretty confident that I will have a mostly accurate floorplan of the set that was used on the show (at least the parts of it that were shown to us thus far). We might even end up with the basis for a plan of the ship as it would exist in-universe (more on the movie set vs. “real place” issue later).
The following soon-to-be-links might give you an idea of what I plan to post over the next few months and I’ll keep adding links to this post as I go. So, without (even more) ado: Have fun exploring La Sirena!
Schematics & Floor Plans
A very crude first sketch
Official Set plan
We finally have an official set plan from the Ready Room!
A First Deeper Look at the Ready Room set plans
Centred Floor Plans from Set Me Up + cross section & more designs
Layout of the Captain’s Quarters
Shape and size
How large is La Sirena as seen on the show and is she larger on the inside?
Upper Deck
The Bridge
Where is the Holodeck?
Picard’s Study
Transporter Pad and Engine
The Trouble with Locating the Quarters/Conference Room
Crew Quarters
Captain’s Quarters
A closer Look at the windows
Conference room
The Mysterious Back End of the Ship
Crates, Tanks, Boxes, and Miscellania
Lower Deck
The Mess
Sickbay: Pt. 1: Size and Construction; Pt. 2: Furniture
So Many Nets
The Wall Problem, aka. Mysterious Nonexistent Corridors
Cargo Bay and other Speculative Spaces
Is there a dedicated cargo bay at the back of the ship?
Where are the rest of the crew quarters hidden?
Overall Design and Technological Aspects
A quick rundown of the Engine placement and history
Some Considerations
Tv Set vs . Starship
The set of La Sirena is just that, a tv set. When building a set, there are many constraints of time, budget, and practicality that will force the creatives to make decisions that will not always make sense when mapped onto a “real” starship. Take, for example, the fact that the Captain’s Quarters and the Conference Room were likely filmed in the same physical set, just redressed for the occasion.
Of course, there can always be Watsonian explanations for these kinds of incongruities and I’d love to hear people’s takes or read fics about them (after all, the entirety of La Sirena is apparently equipped with holoemitters, so I suppose technically, anything is possible).
But I am sticking with the Doylian “it’s a movie set” approach and will generally ignore these kinds of problems when trying to draft an in-universe-accurate floorplan of what we can know of the ship so far. I will be very diligent about pointing out whenever I handwave anything, though, so if you want to stick as closely to what we actually see on the whoe, you’ll know which parts of my analysis/headcanon to disregard ;)
Questions about “silly little details”
I have spend a ridiculous amount of time on this little project so far and in the course of it have gotten pretty familiar with a lot of aspects of the interior and exterior of this amazing starship. If you have any questions regarding details about what we can see of La Sirena on the show, please ask me and I will do my best to help! I absolutely love digging into the really nitpicky, tiny little scraps of information, and at this point, I can probably tell you straight away which scene might provide the info you’re looking for or whether there likely is no answer and you’ll have to get creative.
So if you don’t feel like scrubbing through the entire 10 episodes of Picard to find out, say, the colour of the plates produced by Sirena’s replicators, please shoot me an ask, I’m always utterly delighted to help! (They’re white, btw.)
And just to make clear what I mean by “tiny little details”: in the course of writing some of my stories, I have collected answers to such important questions as
On which side of the desk does Rios have his chair? (Both)
How many cups are on the shelf next to the replicators? (4, even when one of them is currently in use)
Could a football roll under the railing on the upper deck and fall down into the mess hall anywhere but where the stairs go down? (No, there is a raised edge all around the rim that would catch it. Bouncing would work, though, since the space between the railing bars is large enough.)
Could I just say “Fuck it, I’ll just write it however, because it really doesn’t matter at all?” Yes. Would it be better for my sanity? Probably. Will I still keep trying to figure out as much about this crazy little ship as I possibly can at every turn? You betcha!
So, no question is too silly, please ask away!!
A Quick Thought on Fanfic and “Accuracy”
This whole project started because whenever I write fanfic or make up stories set on La Sirena, my brain keeps insisting that we need to know which side of the mess hall the replicators are on! We need to know where exactly the holodeck is located and whether a football could fall to the lower deck through the railing. I would never hold anyone to these standards of “accuracy” - in fact I frequently don’t hold myself to these standards.
Fic is for creative expression, so if in your imagination, La Sirena is twice the size of what we see in the show and has a ton of additional rooms and features, I would love to read that story!
I want to create a resource for anyone looking for Sirena references to get inspired, not to point out inconsistencies or canon-divergence in lovingly created fanworks. I hope it comes across that way =)
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okay so like !!!! The Thunderbirds tour was really REALLY cool and you got to see a bunch of the miniature sets up close and I wish we had more time but that’s how it goes!! You could really tell how much Sir Richard Taylor loves Thunderbirds even just from the introduction video and it was a BLAST to see him grinning so giddily like there is SO MUCH LOVE for the work they did!!! You can’t take photos except for the very end which was a bummer but to be expected I guess.... Weta have strict rules about what can and can’t be snapped (like the original series ahaha ;D)
The rest is under a cut bc...... I got very long winded and excited :DD
The first room is kind of an intro to the original series for people who take the tour without knowing much about the show (a surprising amount apparently! but also not that surprising, doing this tour when I lived in wellington was literally what introduced me to the series and convinced me to buy the dvds so clearly it WORKS!!) And yeah it included models of the original thunderbirds and played clips of the show and had info about the original iterations of characters and so on which was pretty neat!! Nothing new for fans I suppose although I was surprised to learn that Virgil was based of a young Sean Connery apparently???? who knew??? I got a good giggle when Kylie (our lovely tour guide) was like “that’s why he looks a bit James Bond” and so guess what’s being added to the never ending fic list ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ also i never noticed but apparently the original TB5 had an outdoor viewing platform and I love how ridiculous that concept is so so much petition to BRING IT BACK!!!!
It also had concept art showing how they developed the characters and ships and that was really interesting! I had a hunt online to see if I could find stuff but that’s not easy and I’m bummed because one of the John’s concepts did have him blonde and it was phenomenal :D Kylie called these versions “the boy band Tracys” and have I mentioned I love her? I love Kylie she was the best :DD There was also a BUNCH of info of like nailing down character details and most are a distilled version of what’s available on the thunderbirds.com website. I did laugh bc Scott got an “effectiveness rating” of 99% and Virgil’s was only 95% like how was THAT measured xDD The others got rated on different things, Alan got a 96% on reflex analysis, and I don’t remember the others.... There WAS however a height chart which I memorised and will reproduce as best I can and then summarily ignore bc I disagree with it entirely xDD
Scott - 185 cm or 6′ 1
Virgil - 178.2 cm or 5′ 10 (BULLSHIT)
John - 178.6 cm or 5′ 10 (BULLSHIT AGAIN)
Alan - 160 cm or 5′ 3 (A BABY!!!! WHO MADE YOU SO SMOL????? I’M TALLER THAN THAT COME ON KID)
Gordon - 174-176 cm or 5′ 9 (memory is vague on this)
Kayo - 165 cm or 5′ 5
Lady Penelope - 172 cm or 5′ 8 (Which...... ? Do they mean in HEELS bc I do not believe it xDDD)
Brains and Parker were between Gordon and Virgil but I don’t remember exact numbers for them, sorry. They all had 1/10ths but I didn’t bother to memorise with that level of precision except for John/Virgil where it mattered #noregrets
ANYWAY while I was memorising numbers and laughing at boy band John, Kylie was explaining to us how they built the miniatures and it was really cool how creative they could be when it came to reusing what was essentially old junk to make everything!! And then !!! We saw Tracy Island!! Two of them! Because one is this MASSIVE model that they do all the inside shots from and the other was a smaller one that they took wide view of the island with by dumping the island in a pool with blue food colouring water (bc of course at a small scale the pool water wouldn’t look like the ocean :D) anyway CAN CONFIRM Tracy Island DOES HAVE A BEACH!!!!!!! It is tiny but it is THERE!!!! it is to the right of the villa when looking at the front so yay! Beach days on the volcanic island continue!! Also Virgil apparently leaves Mozart on the piano when he’s not playing :D
My favourite story was how the first time they pulled the pool back to shoot TB1′s launch, the pool was too full with water and it FLOODED THE KITCHEN like someone please hop on that story so I don’t have to it was hiLARIOUS!! And then this lovely guy (who honestly looked like his dreams had come true like omw live your best life dude!!) he got to pull the lever to open up the runway for TB2 and it was AWESOME!! The palm trees bounced back and forth just like they do in the show and it felt very real :D Also found out the red and while balls are fire extinguishers and although I feel like I knew that I was also very surprised bc I had no recollection of that until I was reminded! They’re also made out of old goblin eyes from the Hobbit movies so THAT was cool :D
The hangers were EPIC!!! You really got a good sense of their SHEER ENORMITY OF SIZE bc they felt massive as a big person looking at “miniatures” so like if I were scaled down to a model size they must be HUGE!!!! TB3 is housed in a repurposed hot water cylinder and the space elevator lands on a CD walkman :D It really makes you think twice about the sets AND about random items you have lying around, like being there just made me want to create mini sets of my own which I think is an AWESOME response for them to be encouraging!!
There was also some cool shots of Creighton-Ward Manor and the Hood’s machine from s1 (??? gosh... so long ago!!) and then we were in the photo taking room :D They had the Grand Sequoia Dam set from s2, as well as the dome complex from Attack of the Reptiles - we WERE allowed to take photos of these as well as some models of like TB1 and the TB2 interior (with a bonus Virgil!! Which was really fun!!)
Congrats if you made it through the ramble, I do have photos that I’ll gather together at some point but anyway YAY!!!!! IT WAS REALLY FUN AND I’M GLAD I WENT!!
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