im gonna let you guys in on a little secret.

the more macden shippers shit on other pairings, the more multishippers like me will move towards their secondary and/or tertiary pairings. if i can't go into the charden tag without seeing a post intentionally tagged with multiple ships and trying to spark discourse between them by saying people who ship "rarepairs" are stupid and delusional, first of all, that's an instant fucking block, but like. I'm not going to feel like talking about macdennis when it feels like there's such an obnoxious pressure on you to fall into line and accept the widely preached and accepted fanon canon.

I love macden too. and I would post about and enjoy it a lot more if y'all didn't make it feel like we had to pick a side. just because you prefer the big popular ship, that doesn't make you smarter, or more correct than anyone who ships charden or charmac, it just means you have different preferences. i think macden has the biggest chance of being an actual couple on the show, and obviously mac and dennis are both gay and queer respectively, but if i want to ship charden, why can't i do that too? fandom is supposed to be fun, and it's supposed to be enjoyable, i don't want to have to fight to prove that this ship that i personally see working and enjoy the dynamics of is a "valid ship" when i am fully aware that they're not going to be canon that's kind of the point, and why i prefer it. and for the love of god... if you hc a pairing as platonic, that is perfectly fine. that's how i see charmac myself, but that is your view and your problem, not the shippers'. just block the tag so you don't have to see it if it bothers you that much.

and i don't like several of the other common rarepairs, but have any of you ever seen me talking shit on charmac or chardee shippers? no. stay in your lane and let people live. i'm sick of seeing people acting superior over a fucking it's always sunny in philadelphia ship.

as someone who's aroace myself, I...really do not like all the sexualized content of Alastor. or the romantic content tbth. it is deeply off-putting to me. like idk, yeah I get that ace people can still have sex, that aro people can still be in romantic relationships--but as someone who's sex-repulsed AND romance-repulsed, it's. uh. idk, it made me happy to think of Alastor as the same. (my favorite joke reason I've seen for why Alastor vanished for seven years is "Vox confessed to him and Alastor is so romance-repulsed that he had to leave for seven years to get over it." bc SAME. I know it's not canon but I like pretending it is.)

I do kinda ship him in a QPR way with some characters (after he finally figures out that he is aroace), bc I was in a QPR for a long time (with someone who wasn't even aroace himself) and people so often just...didn't get it, didn't get that it was platonic but also different than "just a friendship", and so I am projecting my experiences on Alastor a bit lmao. putting my favorite aroace character into my own lived experiences. Alastor can experience the same frustration I did as everyone around him is like "wdym you're not dating, you hold hands and cuddle, there's no other interpretation of that!"

but like...most of the shippy content I see written or drawn with Alastor is romantic and/or sexual. at best, if it even acknowledges that he's aroace, it's just to justify the shipping with "well SOME aroace people are romance-positive/sex-positive!" people could, at the very least, take this opportunity to explore and try to understand QPRs, relationships that don't have sex or romance and are platonic but are also not "just friendship", but I see like. almost none of that

I'm.. completely tired of the aroace people can still date stuff. Hey, if you're gonna ship him and erase representation, at least admit that you're taking away a canon part of him, and don't act like it's canon he'd date or have sex, he is most likely sex repulsed and romance indifferent or repulsed. The fact that I see people debating this is absolutely crazy to me, do people need everything spelled out for them? Did they need to write Alastor looking disgusted by some sexual remark someone makes and then looking into the camera and saying how he feels repulsed by sex, and how he doesn't care for romance or doesn't like it either?

I'm not too familiar with QPRs since I only found out about them some time ago, but I've seen people say that he's in a QPR with this character or that character and then just, write sexual stuff? I don't know too much about QPRs like I said, but I'm not sure that's how it's supposed to be? I mean, there's a reason it's platonic, and it seems that a lot of the time people are just using QPRs to not get attacked when they ship Alastor with someone.

About canon or not canon

This is time around I am talking about fandom issues, not Miguel's theory, so is okay if you want to scroll past this.

I had mentioned this off-hand before in other post, but I feel is always good to do some reminders, specially since I had gotten past a certain number of followers, and the last time I mentioned this I feel it was awhile ago.

I do not care what about canon or canon ships when is about fandom works.

I feel I need to make this clear because I had seen a few "How people could like X ship?! It doesn't make any sense!"

My answer? It doesn't matter, this is about having fun.

I don't know how many people actually know this but I RARELY ship canon ships, this has been happening more as of recently but for the most part I had shipped niche ships or even crack ones.

I consider that the best fic I had ever done, is for a ship that is so minuscule there is only 4 fics in ao3, and 2 of those are mine. And believe me, it makes perfect sense, those characters work together in my head and few others.

But fandom has zero to do with canon; fun story guy did you know the first type of fandom as we know it, was shipper of Spock x Captain Kirk of Star Trek? They would have zines with fics, they will hold reunions to talk about the characters, draw comics about it; the creators and the actors even KNEW about this!

But that ship was never canon, and even if people saw potential in it; it doesn't matter. Fandom is to have fun, not to try to limit how people create.

By the way, if you think this take is weird for the type of content I make, let me say it this way: I think people writing about X ship or writing a character in Y way is okay; I can understand sometimes it can feel frustrating and I am not saying you have to like it.

Everyone had been frustrated for that one story they read where the character they love is completely out of character and you want to rage quit; and I get it, I had gone to my friends to rant sometimes about things like that.

Because let's remember, did this person write this story for me, or did this person write the story this way because it thought the idea of X character doing something in specific sounds like fun for them?

I think we all know the answer.

So no, I can get being frustrated, and that's fine and natural, but one thing is how you behave with a few friends in private while talking about petty things; vs trying to scream in a public place where people, including that person, can see.

You are entitled to your own opinion, in your own space, specially when it wasn't asked. Is not hard.

"Then why you do stupidly long essays about what is happening in the movie?"

Because there is a different of what I write in my fic vs what is happening in the canon story!

Because canon and fanon aren't the same thing! And is much better that way.

Canon cannot be as weird or corny or dumb at times, because it cannot be everything people want; so is nice to have people going crazy with wild ideas. And fanon shouldn't limit itself because is about being creative and seeing how far the human imagination can go.

I think is important remember what happened in canon because I had seen literal people have interpretations of a character (which is fine and dandy,) and then try to say is canon and people who disagree are haters (NOPE.)

I like discussing what the hell is going down the movie because I love the canon material and exploring those topics is fun for me, and because I want to have a way to say "I believe this is what went down and here is my reasons for it." Maybe is the ADHD or maybe is the trauma but I like to be able to justify my response.

But I also recognize when something is totally not canon and I am just exploring ideas. I also like to talk about how things could had been handle better in canon; (because a teen who is just starting doing fanfics should be as cringe as they want, but when the source material is fucking up a story then this is an entirely different story.) That's fun for me too.

Sorry this got so long, it was suppose to be a short message, but like I say, I like to be able to justify my response.

Pair O' Geten Asks

Congrats on your newly discovered Geten Appreciation, anon! I too like Geten a lot and feel that he, like the rest of the MLA, was Robbed.  He really would have made an interesting foil to Dabi and I have only conspiracy theories about Editor Meddling to explain why we didn’t get that.  The Rei-like appearance?  The opposed power set?  The father figure to whom he’s incredibly loyal?  The focus on a powerful quirk as more important than anything?  Come on; why write all that if it’s only going to matter for one (1) fight that doesn’t even come to a conclusive end and before we even have a bunch of concrete information on Dabi’s childhood relationship with his father?

Also, Geten and Dabi trying to run a regiment together would have been hilarious and it is but one of many things we were cheated out of seeing by that bedamned three-month timeskip on the villain side.

As well, Geten’s interesting to me for the same reason that Mustard is: they’re the only two young villains for whom we just don’t get much angle on student parallels, rescue arcs, and/or sympathetic portrayals.  Geten at least has far clearer motivations than Mustard, but it’s really frustrating to see the both of them basically written out of the story when they both seem far too young to be deemed Not Worth Saving.  (I mean, I obviously don’t think anyone should be declared off-limits for saving no matter how old or how far gone they are, but it’s particularly egregious when it comes to the younger villains.)

As to his loyalty to Re-Destro, I'll fold some discussion of that into my answer to this other ask, answered below the jump:

(CW: discussions of child abuse and cult dynamics)

Ohhhhh my god, anon.  Thank you for coming to me with this so I can assure you that, yes, Re-Destro absolutely does have genuine affection for Geten and his intentions absolutely do not come from a place of malice.

The thing with the way people headcanon RD and Geten’s relationship is, I think, pretty straightforward: Toxic Blorbo Anxiety.  Modern fandom, especially on tumblr, has really co-opted a lot of social justice rhetoric to make what once would have been dead-ass basic character/ship flame wars sound more justified and meaningful; as a consequence, altogether too many people have this idea that one’s taste in fiction (characters, relationships, themes, whatever) is a direct measure of one’s moral character.  Ergo, it’s no longer okay to just like a character with significant flaws—you have to find some kind of reason why that character’s flaws aren’t actually their fault.

People who hate Geten have zero problems writing him off as a toxic ableist eugenicist.  People who like Geten—well, some people are perfectly capable of liking Geten while acknowledging that he’s a violent little shit who espouses quirk supremacist ideals that go considerably farther than the ideals professed by anyone else around him, even the people higher up the chain of command.  For the “my taste in characters mirrors my moral character” folks, however, liking Geten means an immediate need to find a likely character to offload all of Geten’s moral failings onto.

Re-Destro is the only character for whom Geten has any demonstrated feelings whatsoever; this makes him the only available scapegoat.

And it’s ridiculous!  It is pulled literally out of thin air.  As you said, the databook is explicit that Re-Destro gave Geten “lots of affection,” but you see echoes of it in the canon as well.  There’s the flashback Geten has to RD smiling and patting him on the shoulders and entrusting him with an Important Task, as well as the implication that Geten cares about RD so much that Re-Destro burning himself caused Geten’s quirk evolution.  Re-Destro himself gets this beat, indicating trust and high regard, just after Giran gets sassy with him about the MLA losing their number advantage to the Sad Man’s Parade:

Yes, absolutely, Geten is fucked up from being raised in a cult.  Re-Destro was raised in the very same cult, however, and with a lot more fuckery about his ancestors and identity loaded down on him to boot.  Geten at least can just be Geten, you know?  The very best version of Geten that he knows how to be!

Of course, an ideal version of Geten would, among other changes, probably be going to school.  Now, Geten’s schooling is not RD’s responsibility—so far as we know, he isn’t Geten’s actual legal guardian.  Nonetheless, I’m sure he could make Geten do it if he really wanted to press the issue, and it’s no credit to him that he hasn’t.

Still, before I condemn RD for that, I’d want to know what RD’s own schooling situation was, or what the MLA approach is to school in general.  One of the things that defines cults, after all, is limiting members’ access to outside information, which is why they’re all such proponents for homeschooling.  I would be shocked if Re-Destro himself wasn’t homeschooled for at least his younger years, and therefore lacks a full frame of reference for why that’s a problem.

Speaking of RD’s frame of reference for things, and getting back to your actual question about ReDadstro, while I don’t read RD and Geten’s relationship as explicitly having familial vibes, I do think they’re close enough that a lot of people in-universe probably look at them and wonder.  The main reason for that is that, well, look at Re-Destro’s whole scenario!  He’s the scion of Yotsubashi Chikara, a blood-descendant of the leader of the original Meta Liberation Army, and, oh, does the story never let him or us forget it.  His authority over the group is entirely rooted in that ancestry; he and they all believe that it must be Destro, no one else, who brings Liberation to Japan.

That all being the case, then, why on earth doesn’t Re-Destro have any kids?

Seriously, the guy’s got to be over 40, and if the lineage is that important—and it is; Skeptic says explicitly that he wants to recruit Twice so that the MLA never has to fear a repeat of Destro’s loss—why hasn’t RD secured the bloodline for the future yet?  Even if he’s fairly confident in his and his followers’ ability to ring the bells of liberation in his lifetime, you’d think some contingency plans would be in order!

I also think it’s fairly telling that a guy whose authority is so rooted in family doesn’t seem to have any of his own—not just kids, but siblings, a spouse, parents, grandparents, anybody.  While it could simply be a function of his limited screen time, we have at least some idea of what the family situation is for most of the other major villains.  AFO, Shigaraki and the rest of the League, Gentle Criminal, Overhaul—for all of them, we can point to at least one thing and say, “That’s the situation,” even if it’s as simple as e.g. the implication of Spinner becoming a hikikomori or Overhaul being an orphan.  It seems to me that if there was a family line in charge of the MLA, we would have seen at least one other member at some point.  That we never do[1] suggests pretty strongly that Re-Destro is the only Yotsubashi around at the current time.

My headcanon, then, is that Re-Destro, a man so psychologically burdened by the needs of being the Great Destro’s successor that he saw an omni-nihilist like Shigaraki as freedom delivered on divine wings, doesn’t have children because he doesn’t want them.  Or, more accurately, because whether or not he, Yotsubashi Rikiya, might want children, he’s unwilling to have them so long as there’s any chance his burden could become theirs.

And thus we get to Geten.  If Rikiya might have wanted children in other circumstance, it’s not so surprising that he’d have a streak of paternal instinct that came out with Geten, especially when Geten was younger.  Here’s someone who’s powerful but never going to be in any danger of inheriting all of Rikiya’s burdens, someone whose loyalty is to Rikiya personally, rather than to Destro’s blood.[2]  Of course Rikiya’s fond of him!  He’s not entirely free when he’s around Geten, but at the very least, Geten transparently doesn’t care about the MLA’s glorious history.

I have to think that everyone around them Feels Some Sorta Way about this, especially those shadowy figures we saw telling young Rikiya all about his “inheritance,” but the downside of raising a six-year-old to be the supreme leader of your underground army is that there’s only so much open pushback you can offer once the six-year-old turns forty.  If RD wants to maintain a close relationship with Geten, there’s not really anyone who can put their foot down about it beyond a certain amount of pointed-but-respectful questioning.

As for what Geten thinks of this state of affairs, the way I conceive of them, Geten is painfully aware that Re-Destro is heavily burdened, and Geten wants to relieve as much of that burden as he can.  However, one of the reasons RD might find Geten comparatively relaxing is that Geten doesn’t occupy a specific place in the MLA’s organizational structure.  That might be because Geten lacks the temperament for leadership, but it might also be because RD likes that Geten is a bit sideways of the power structure that defines so much of the rest of Rikiya’s life.  Geten’s closeness to the Grand Commander might be enviable to others in the MLA, but it doesn’t seem to come with any particular authority; Geten probably wishes that RD would give him more to do![3]

Hence, I assume, his single-minded fervor about living up to Re-Destro’s trust and eliminating the people in Re-Destro’s way and so forth.  If it’s somewhat rare for Re-Destro to give Geten actual tasks to fulfill, all the more reason for Geten to pounce so vigorously on what opportunities do arise.

In summary, while Re-Destro and Geten’s relationship has some pretty huge red flags in it—the lack of schooling, the way RD being Geten’s patron rather than giving him a real position keeps Geten dependent on RD’s favor, the way Geten is singled out as having this relationship with RD, the disconnect between the values they extol— in the context they live in, I think it’s pretty wholesome!  That is, they’re both pretty fucked up by the cult upbringing, in ways neither of them is fully capable of even recognizing, but I think they both mean well by each other, and their lives are stabler and happier for each other's presences than if they were still both MLA but weren't aquainted.

Could it be better?  Sure!  But there’s a nigh-unbridgeable canyon between, “Based on what we know about the characters’ circumstances, this relationship has some concerning elements,” and, “Re-Destro is physically abusive, thinks Geten is only valuable as a weapon, and has groomed Geten himself to believe that.”

The far side of that canyon must be in Narnia, because stepping through a magic doorway to another world where BNHA is a completely different story is the only way anyone’s going to be able to produce canon evidence for the Re-Destro As Abusive Groomer claim.  As Shigaraki and All For One prove, however, there’s no villain in this story that can’t be rendered more cloyingly, simplistically sympathetic by cramming a bunch of physical abuse into fanfic where none exists canonically.

Thanks for the asks, anons! Please go forth and continue loving Geten freely. And Re-Destro also, because god knows he needs more love.

---

[1] The closest we get is the family portraits the League find in the obviously-intended-to-be-Re-Destro’s-summer-home they ransack in the live drama reading from that LOV stage event back in 2021.  No word on whether Horikoshi had any input whatsoever on that script, however.

[2] The tell here is the consistency of Geten’s motivations.  He never connects Re-Destro’s authority to Destro Classic like Skeptic and Trumpet do, nor does his loyalty change to Shigaraki post-Deika as you might expect if quirk supremacy were really the only thing Geten used to measure worth.

[3] It’s very telling that when we’re being introduced to the heads of the MLA, getting their real names and day jobs, Geten isn’t included in the lineup; he remains an unnamed parka troll with bad table manners.  He does get a proper rank in the PLF, of course, but by that point Re-Destro has ceded control to Shigaraki, so RD no longer has to worry so much about how he defines or doesn’t define the relationship or what people might think of it.

Shipping and liking in fiction don't really need to be consistent imo, like you can like black chocoloate and dislike white chocolate even if they are both chocolate but that doesn't makes you an hypocrite so liking a character that does something and not another character that does the same thing or as a similar personaily falls into taste, the only moment where i would disagree would be if they tried to justify it by draggin down the other people who ike what they dislike

My blog archive can attest to this, but I've always hated the "you wouldn't hate so-and-so if they were a man!" or "but you like this character who did something I think is the same!" arguments.

If the character were a man, then they wouldn't have been written with misogynistic dev bias in the first place, AKA they would be a completely different character, or at least handled in a completely different way.

Just because you can draw some surface parallels between characters doesn't mean they're the exact same. Even if they do the exact same thing that doesn't mean they're treated the same, which factors into how much I like or dislike them.

Like we'll just take the example of Arvis for a second. Surface level he and CF!Edelgard do a lot of similar things. They:

Conquer a continent

Ostensibly for the good of the people

Through extremely dubious means (killing or trying to kill the MC, stealing sovereign territory that they are explicitly not in charge of by force, etc.)

Which would realistically have serious and far reaching negative consequences for the people conquered (death of able-bodied men to work the fields, trampling of crops, requisitioning food from the poor and hungry, civilian deaths as tends to happen in war, etc.)

While allying with a shady evil cult who want to bring about the destruction of humanity

They attain their goals

And the narrative implies that everything went well in the immediate aftermath and everyone was kind of chill about it despite point 4 above.

And I don't like Arvis, but I don't dislike him as much as Edelgard either, and that's because of what happens next in Arvis's story:

Arvis realizes he was never as in-control as he thought, and in fact he was completely played by an organization far more powerful and intelligent and dangerous than he realized

He has a significant fall from grace, basically becoming a puppet for the evil cult

Everything he worked toward is in the gutter and things actually become significantly worse for the people living in his empire. Not only that, he has to witness his family ripped apart and used as pawns in the game he was unwittingly, hopelessly outmatched in from the start

He has a come to Jesus moment and realizes just how badly he was outplayed and how much worse he made literally everything for literally everyone with his actions

And then he spends his last moments helping the MC try and defeat the evil he unleashed. While it's not necessarily a redemption or even sufficient atonement, there is at least the understanding that Arvis understands just how responsible he is for everything that's happened, and that he needs to do everything he can to try and fix it

Meanwhile Edelgard's story in CF is:

She gets everything she wants no matter how brutal or vile her methods are or how much pain she causes to the people around her

And then the game ends with absolutely no acknowledgement of that or consequences for those actions

Like... Yeah. I don't like either of them, but why would I feel the need to criticize Arvis for the bad shit he's done? When Arvis did bad shit the plot made him fuck his sister and turned his son into a literal demon god who hunts children for sport. Not only is the game fully aware of the bad shit he's done and takes every opportunity to point out how shitty he is, Arvis is fully aware of the bad shit he's done and takes the opportunity to atone for how shitty he was once he realizes this.

The frustrating thing about Edelgard isn't that she does bad shit. It's that the game never wants to engage with that bad shit beyond surface level "woe is me" pity speeches. Not only that, but it takes every opportunity to try and make you pity her, the person inflicting all of this suffering, instead of empathizing with the people she is inflicting suffering on. Like? Can you just imagine if FE4 stopped dead in its tracks and Seliph looked at the camera and said "Gee I know Arvis killed my dad and fucked my mom and brought the apocalypse on us and all, but actually I think he's kind of dope and I wish we could have walked hand in hand together uwu"? Holy fuck I would clown on FE4 so hard for that shit.

And I'd like to say I'd feel that way about a male character in the same situation, but honestly? I can't think of any. And that's because I feel like female characters are either the most evil, vile creatures to ever exist or they're handled with kid gloves and the narrative is terrified to criticize them in any way. It feels like writers are less afraid to write flawed-but-not-irredeemably-so male characters, who can have their flaws not only front and center but also a core part of their narrative.

And if I wanted to go deep into it and draw parallels to real life... look at how often we're expected to give men (most often cishet white men) the benefit of the doubt in society, and how often women are not afforded that privilege. E.g. if a man yells then he's just having a bad day, but if a woman yells she's a bitch and a horrible person. Fiction reflects our society's attitudes in real life. So men get to be nuanced and flawed and women get to be either an Angel or a Bitch, and a lot of writers have no idea how to write anything in between those two points because they actually believe that's all women can be.

honest question but like why does it annoy you so much that people are anti nine/rose or tentoo/rose? like I'm just curious. some people just don't like the way rose's story ended or don't ship ninerose. why do they bother you so much?

because doctor/rose is my most... not saying i ship them more than mulder and scully but their relationship means a great amount to me in a way that others don't because their writing from beginning to end is all so intentional and well written that i don't think it's fair to only ship tenrose and completely disregard what makes their relationship what it is.

tenrose only works because they fell in love in s1, because he died loving her and was born out of his love for her and humanity, seperating that from ten leads to a complete misunderstanding of his character, his need to be human and his relationship with rose which leads to people disliking tentoorose. it's all connected, it's a cohesive story with a beginning a middle and an end.

people hating tentoorose frustrates me because it was a long planned ending, one that is foreshadowed the entire time and that makes the most sense for their relationship while also driving in the core message of doctor who- that being human is a gift.

i don't like people picking and choosing parts of rose or their relationship to justify, frankly, incorrect readings of their relationship. we see rose say the traveling doesn't matter, we see her be excited at the prospect of settling down with him, we see her beg him not to regenerate. yet tentoorose antis act like their ending is something out of the blue when it's not. they take the power and happiness away from her when rtd intentionally shifted the je scene to give her all the control and choose tentoo. which is important because it's rare in media, especially with mortal/immortal ships for the man to become human and for the narrative to be as deeply kind to them as it was to rose. where she gets everything she wanted: her parents, a larger purpose defending the earth and to grow old with the doctor. all of those things are really special because usually it's the other way around. usually it's bella becomes a vampire, etc.

i don't like how people characterize rose as someone who would throw tentoo aside and treat him like shit, because this is the same character who showed compassion to a dalek. she is not a cold or cruel person to anyone. this is the same person who could not seperate au pete from her dad.

and like, of course people can do whatever they want on their blogs, but people cross tag this stuff, they put anti tentoorose fics in the tentoorose tag, etc. and that is incredibly annoying to see. which leads to the venting! i never hijack posts, leave mean reviews on fics that i think are ooc or anything but i have to express my feelings somewhere lol

one thing that confuses me about c3 is that if matt didn't give them clues about the subject of the campaign, is imogen just a lucky coincidence to him? because if she was a literally any other sorcerer there wouldn't be this connection. would the carrying of the plot then fall to orym? because I assume matt likely knew liam would be playing orym again quite early in c3 development? I feel like in other campaigns he managed to lead his players to his world-altering intrigues in more organic ways. managed to make enough personal connections that vm went after chroma, that the nein went after the nonagon and cognouza. (however that does make me wonder how the nonagon plot would feel if molly lived and if it would similarly feel that molly was the one dragging everyone into the plot)

(that also makes me salty how people say liam hogged the spotlight bc vax made a spontaneous decision that carried huge weight but wasn't something anyone could predict. I don't see nearly enough similar sentiment towards imogen who really feels favoured by the plot)

Hi anon! Again, this is all speculative (though we do know from 4SD that Laura didn't know the nature of the storm) but I suspect that either the party wouldn't have the same internal connection to Ruidusborn but would still be pushed towards this plot; for what it's worth, the Imogen connections very specifically start driving things in Bassuras; Orym's connections are sufficient to get to Heartmoor Hamlet, Fearne's are what drive the Calloway/Ira connections, and Chetney's issues with Ruidus would have added an extra dimension. Perhaps Fearne would have had some dreams; perhaps the nature of Ruidusborn would have been changed. I think he could have still woven many of their plots into Ruidus in some way and given the others sufficient reason to be interested; it's specifically that one person is so much more tied to it that unbalances it because the other connections are so strong, and it's also worth noting that the conclave and Cognouza came much later in their respective campaigns, after character motivations were much more solidified. This feels more railroaded because it's so early and there isn't the wandering about that the pre-stream of VM or the earlier parts of the Nein had. It's not that you can't do main character/skewed stuff in D&D; but it's really something you need to agree upon in advance (D20 does it all the time, but they workshop the characters beforehand) so that the player is prepared.

I will admit I've had similar questions about the nonagon plot had Molly lived; it might be that his death wiping out that plot, and the fact that the Nein categorically rejected the Empire early on, is why that plot is so strongly character-driven and gets so much room to breathe. I don't know if we'll ever know for sure! I do hope that these questions about Imogen come up at some point, even if it might not be until after the campaign.

I will say: I am frustrated by how much the plot hinges on Imogen, but there's also been a significant amount of hate and criticism towards her even before that was the case. People were livid at the 4 Sided Dive comment about Imogen being the protagonist among NPCs even though it was fully out of character and just discussing archetype; I received a lot of backlash for pointing out that Imogen was justified in being angry at Laudna when Laudna broke the gnarlrock even if Delilah was behind it; and I have serious trepidations about how she might be treated if ships don't go the way people like, even if Laudna is the one who initiates something else. In general, while I do think it can be helpful to compare the fandom responses to cast members (and uh, just did so) because they are wildly disparate, I also think most cast members receive hate from some quarter, especially if their character is in focus and someone is Big Mad that their favorite isn't in focus, and that is a whole other extensive discussion I am not qualified nor inclined to lead.

I've personally always been frustrated with Ochako's character and her so called fans. I'd like to know your thoughts on 3 things about her:

Do you think the so called "parallel" between her and Toga seems forced and just ridiculous? Horikoshi has said he created them to "match" each other but it's just doesn't make much sense to me. It seems to relate to love and emotions, but it was just so poorly handled. Ochako's constant association with Toga and having her as the only major opponent she faces, it feels like her potential is being cheated because it feels recycled and rehashed like it's just going in circles at this point.

Wouldn't it be better if in the end, Ochako decided to grow out of her feelings and just became friends with Deku? It would at least show some maturity on her part and that she was faithful to her original goals all along, wouldn't it? At the very least, it doesn't force her to be boxed in the obligatory love interest role like a lot of female characters because a lot of her so called fans only ever see her as just that; a love interest who is meant to be with the MC, they can never seem to mention her without addressing her "love interest" status and her individual accomplishments for herself are just ignored in favor of her "ship" and I don't think I need to explain why that's bad. Even fanboys agree that female characters who exist solely just to be a love interest are not interesting at all. I'm not saying Ochako is boring but rather she was originally praised because she was the girl who broke the "shonen mold" for shonen girls in anime. Kaede Kayano from Assassination Classroom didn't really end up with Nagisa in canon and she was just fine.

Do you agree/disagree on the notion that Ochako is being forced/boxed into the "obligatory love interest trope" like many other anime girls typically fall into? Shippers would deny that or try to justify it, but I'd like to know your thoughts. Like I said, she was originally praised for breaking the shonen mold for anime girls but sometimes canon and especially the fans seem to keep forcing her back into that "typical love interest" category when originally, she pushed her feelings aside to focus on herself but now it seems even that part of her character keeps flip-flopping all over the place.

I know this is a lot but you give thorough answers and I like how detailed your analysis is and the particular topics I'm talking about have always been issues that surround Ochako as a character that it's caused so much cognitive dissonance when people talk about it, so I'd really like to know what you think.

Hmm. Alright, let's talk about parallels.

Are there parallels between Himiko and Ochako? Technically, yes. Are they handled well? No.

The thing is, both of them parallel around crushing on Izuku, right? As well as both being women he's had 'cute girl panic' moments over, and so on. If Hori was actually willing to put work into that, maybe it could have been interesting: Ochaco was putting aside her feelings for her dreams and the greater good, while Himiko was hedonistically chasing him, along with anything else that pleases her (blood, Ochaco herself, etc etc...) unrealistically, without worrying about the practicalities, or the cost of her desires. There is a dynamic there, and in theory that could have been something interesting. In practice?

Well, in practice, Ochako hasn't been in really in focus for awhile now, and we haven't seen much of how she thinks. And when she does... well, to be honest, I'm not sure the last time she thought about her crush was. She's been focusing on, you know, society crumbling around her rather than how she feels about her first crush, which, good on her! Nice priorities! The thing is, if the story wants us to focus on her being in love, it needs to show her, well, in love. I know she probably still is (and at this point I expect her to hook up with Izuku in the end, if he doesn't die), but it falls flat when this is supposed to be a major part of her connection to this other character, but we never see it.

Himiko, meanwhile, has the opposite problem: she loves Izuku, or rather 'loves' him. The thing is, she's rather shallow with her love: she loves Izuku, sure. And Ochako, and I think Tsuyu, and pretty much everyone else she's killed on her own time in the series, and more than a few she's killed while she was on 'business' for the League. As long as you are 'cute', in other words, Himiko will 'love' you. The main thing that makes Izuku different than her other love interests is he isn't dead yet, so she has to keep chasing him, which probably makes her obsess over him as the one that got away.

In other words, while Ochako's love feels meaningless because it feels like Hori forgot about it, Himiko's 'love' feels meaningless because her love is cheap and easy, and really isn't even love so much her just saying that someone is hot, and she doesn't know how to distinguish lust, or hunger, or a mix of those two, from romantic interest. And when those two things are the main points of connection between the two characters, that connection is going to feel weak.

On Ochako moving on... honestly, it's hard to care much about it either way since she hasn't had on screen time to think about it in god knows how long. She's this important main character from the original parts of the story, but in story she hasn't had time to truly think about anything that isn't a crisis in probably months, and from our perspective... in a year? More? If I had to choose right now, I'd lean towards her moving on, but that's just because her crush feels like it's been atrophied from all this time without it being brought up beyond Toga sort of mentioning it. Personally, I wouldn't have cared all that much if she ended up with Izuku as long as it didn't subsume her character, since there were so many ways for her development to go, but you're right: back when she was an important character, and had focus to explore her opinions, the way she was trending with Izuku was less interest on her crush and more focus on him as her friend and colleague, a friendly rival to compete against and an ally to work together with.

And that would have been great, it really would have; the friendship with Ochako and Izuku was so nice and wholesome at the beginning. At this point though either choice, moving on or hooking up, is just going to come out of nowhere because there hasn't been any time on it.

Is she being shoved into the love interest role? Oh yeah. Like, if you ship them, there's plenty of stuff before the War Arc help support that in a natural way, more power to you, but after?

*hisses through clenched teeth*

Post War has done Ochaco dirty. Her main focus, post War, is about how she's contrasting with Himiko, and that contrast is about how they're both attracted to Izuku, which is really bizarre since we don't actually get to see how she even feels about him, at this point. All the same though, the way Himiko talks, the way the fight is being arranged, it's about the parallels them and their 'love', and there's some energy of them fighting over him even while they're actually fighting over completely different things (while also giving off threesome vibes that are solely coming from Toga, because of course), while not putting any... work into it? It feels like Hori is kind of absently prodding her towards being the love interest, through her fight with Himiko and how they're supposed to be mirroring each other. Basically, it's sort of saying that, since Himiko 'loves' Izuku, and Ochako is supposed to be her thematic rival, then therefore Ochako still loves Izuku!

Only, you know, without giving it enough thought, or Ochako enough courtesy, to do it well. Or barely at all, really. I mean, fuck, it's worth stating this again: I don't think Ochaco has actually confirmed she's still attracted to Izuku recently? And I'm being generous here when I say 'recently' by condensing all the Final Arc fights that are all technically happening at the same time to the same time frame, and not using how bloated it is for us readers to experience. From what little we've actually seen, Ochaco could have moved on entirely, at this point, but the narrative still wants us to think she's still interested. And let's be honest, if Hori is, quarter assedly or not, pushing the idea that Ochako is still in love with Izuku this late in the story, then they're going to hook up, no matter how little Ochako actually seems to think about it, not to mention how I'm not sure Izuku has ever thought about.

Oh my god

Dude chill maybe? It's not that deep.

First I am going to preface this with a you don't have to talk about trauma to justify enjoying things that are "suspicious" and also NSFT content. But this actually bugged me and I need to say something against it to prove why fanfic preferences don't necessarily reflect real life views and why it's stupid to be wary over tropes.

I love half gender bends that make a ship m/f when they are originally m/m. I have trauma related to Anal so while I can read m/m fics with it just fine as long as the terms used are vague, that being said if a fic has penetration I tend to lean towards stuff like omegaverse where the bottom characters have mixed genitalia or fics that make the bottom either trans masc or genderbent female. It's that simple. I am a trans(salmacian) switch I top cis men and have no issue with it then but most fanfic I prefer projecting onto the bottom, I am the smaller and weaker one. So I just have that preference that the one I related to more is the one genderbent. I don't see how you being wary and passing judgment on others has any basis other than your own biases.

Not trying to argue necessarily I just feel frustrated to be judged on fictional stories.

How is liking that homophobic literally any relationship I'm in is gay. It's like saying it's racist to prefer (for an easy example since I've seen this in the wild) reylo over finnrey. It's not (surprise surprise) I just happen to like finnpoe better and enjoy platonic finnrey over romantic. I'm also a sucker for the reformed/corrupted by love trope so reylo hit just right for that.

If we want puriteens to stop judging us based of of the fanfic/stories we read why are we judging eachother. If you don't like it then don't read it but don't pass judgment on others for liking things you don't.

-@botanicbones since tumblr doesn't let you send asks from sideblogs.

(Sorry otnf for busting into your inbox instead of just reblogging but I needed to say something)

--

Everyone saying that Buck HAS to date a death doula to come to terms with almost dying. WTF??? He could, you know, go see Frank? Or Dr. Copeland, what happen to her? Or maybe talk again to Eddie, or Maddie, or Bobby, or Hen, or literally anyone???

People are twisting themselves into pretzels on here and on Twitter in order to justify the storyline as necessary for Buck processing his death. WHY.DOES.HE.NEED.TO.DATE.SOMEONE.TO.PROCESS.DEATH? And why does that someone need to be a woman if queer Buck/Buddie is actually in the cards?I've also seen people claiming a relationship would never work because of her profession, but he's in a profession that routinely sees death. These aren't convincing me.

Really, I'd bet any amount of money that the story is 100% just Kristen loathing the idea of Buddie and wanting to put Buck with another woman. And if/when the relationship doesn't work out, the general audience will still be like, "He's only ever liked women! He's straight!" Kristen's anti-Buddie mission will have been accomplished!

I'd love more than anything to be wrong, but I just don't see how people constantly spin these storylines as, "No wait, this means Buddie canon!" I already see many people who were positive that something would happen with Buck and Eddie in the finale backtracking while others are continuing on as if it would be totally normal to have Buck professing his feelings about Eddie one episode after he was with a woman.

Honestly, I know that I sound bitter towards fans, and while I'm...frustrated by people being willfully ignorant and then hurting themselves, I don't really blame them. Kristen is the one who is 100% responsible. But she'll continue to do this, and get away with it, if fans keep making excuses for these dumb storylines instead of rightfully complaining.

He could oh IDK, talk to CHIM who has nearly died twice?! A good, solid brother bonding moment? Look, I'm just...SO opposed to the idea (that a LOT of shows do) of dating someone just to work on yourself and figure things out so you can be ready for the ACTUAL person you want to be with. That's just....using people. Like,

So I'm side-eyeing TF out of people saying Buck needs to date this woman to figure out....whatever and that Eddie needs to date some new woman because...whatever reason so that they can become "better" for each other. Something something is that love? Shouldn't it be when you're at your worst and they're at their worst something something. They don't NEED to date these new women to make them "better ready" to date each other and it's kinda gross actually but ya know, I'M the misogynist because thought L was a terrible character and a waste of time. 🙄

I've never thought anything Buddie would happen this season, then I got a little hope at Ryan just absolutely slaying 6x10 and Buck's rescue but 6x11 and then knowing what all was coming up made it pretty clear to me where this season was headed. Do I think we could still get Buddie canon? Sure! Never say never until the show is over (and even then, they could still do a movie a few years later 🤣). I'm not currently planning to stop shouting about it or let the show off the hook just because they put Buck and/or Eddie with someone sufficiently pretty enough for other people to settle for that instead, and you know Timmy would just loooove to get the accolades for pulling off something "groundbreaking" like this (which is basically him stumbling into lightning in a bottle chemistry and then dicking around for 5 years which EYE wouldn't call groundbreaking but whatever). But even he has bosses and at this point it feels a bit like he got overruled so he fucked off to work on the other show and left OG to flounder it's way to it's end. I can WANT Buddie, and think the show still has done enough work to make it plausible, and still think it makes the most narrative sense, while still being skeptical of the show going through with it. Not even just regarding mlm ships, but 911 would NOT be the first show to undermine it's own narrative set up and logical character arcs for the sake of drama or just pure stubbornness by a showrunner that doesn't like how people are interpreting "their" show. It wouldn't be the first show to end leaving fans unsatisfied with the ending either. 911 used to be something different than you usually see with a procedural with more focus on found family and working dramatic things out in a logical and human way and it is still pretty much there, just with a lot more of the good stuff happening off screen, so I would hope it would treat it's storylines, cast, characters, and audience with a little more respect, but also, it's KR soooo not getting my hopes up on that.

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go read some fluffy fic before I scream myself horse or figure out how to molotov KR's office from my house with my brain.

11 and 25 for the dangerous game >:3

thanks mal! <33 (from this ask game)

11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered

just 3 on this account cuz it's my personal, none on my fanart archiving blog, and 7 on twitter though funnily enough half of those are stranger things-related from a period where i really couldn't escape stranger things. nothing against it—i just only want to see sp stuff and i guess there was a significant enough overlap for a bit

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

generally a lot of things that annoy me stem from the trend of complaining about "fetishization" (yaoi or just shipping culture i guess?) or acting like people are doing anything wrong or in need of pathologizing for interacting with fandom in a way that was totally routine a decade ago. that they need to show they're sufficiently queer and not focused on sexuality in any ~weird way. honestly, i find that sort of thing easy enough to block out on its own (there's more of it on twitter but i just look at art over there). young people often have shame about sexuality and it's none of my business or anything i would ever argue with someone about. i just disengage

it's more the reactions people have to being told they're doing something problematic. there's this endless chain of moral rationalizations for why it's ok to like the thing that piques one's interest because actually it's woke and you don't get it, i'm gay enough to like standard yaoi tropes. some real gay people are like this! you know.. like, why engage this in the first place? why lend any credence to this viewpoint by debating it on its own terms? you don't need to justify yourself to anyone. just keep yaoifying those fake guys

people end up making really weird generalizations about gender, sexuality, mental health, drug use, etc. in an effort to enjoy the old 00s yaoi tropes. to all those who do this, I'm here to tell you you can just enjoy whatever and no one can stop you. personally, even as a smut writer, i like when characters feel whole and often enjoy a fic less if i feel someone is being reduced to gendered stereotypes or flattened in some other way that doesn't interest or challenge me. but those are my own personal feelings and highly subjective besides

i also don't think sharing some broad identity marker with the character you are writing actually shields you from poor characterization. people can "fetishize" themselves easily (and sometimes that's what people want to read/write, and who cares), and it can be hard to write well-developed characters! i just like to read and view things i enjoy on the merits of the work alone

general "you can't ship that" and "he would never top/bottom" sentiments are similarly grating. people can and do ship literally anything and it can't be stamped out so idk why people waste their time streisand effecting ships/dynamics they don't like. with both of these, there's a sense of deluded entitlement, like if people weren't making stuff for their ship/dynamic, they'd be making it for yours. i promise you that that type of hectoring actually just drives people away from what you like. in general, people are often quite fixed in who their faves are and how they like them in romantic/sexual situations. but for those like me, who really can potentially like anything if sold in a way i find compelling, this stuff really confounds and frustrates me. people are bad at getting what they want because of this need to emotionally react without thinking through the way it might impact others. sad stuff to see from adults in particular tbh

HOT TAKE 🔥🔥🔥🔥  Izzy is a bad guy 🤯🤯🤯

I actually don’t know if this is technically a hot take tbh ✋🏼 I thought this was the generally held and understood take until recently when I saw people directly disputing it. Anyways, super steaming hot take; Lucius was entirely justified for refusing to do the chores Izzy told him to do. He wasn’t hired and he isn’t being paid to do manual labor, he’s the ship scribe, literally his entire job is to write down Stede’s exploits. And Izzy knows that, that’s why he specifically targeted Lucius to do all the unpleasant jobs no one wants to do. It’s a dig at how he thinks the job Stede hired Lucius to do isn’t valid because of how frivolous and stupid he finds it. Both bullying Lucius and Stede inherently in the process.

When Lucius argues with Izzy by telling him that Stede will be furious with him for wearing out his scribe’s fingers he’s not trying to be lazy and skip out of work by threatening to tell dad, Lucius’s job on the revenge is to write, and if because of Izzy’s petty intimidation tactics he was unable to do the job he was hired to do, Stede would be rightfully pissed.

A lot of people argue that Izzy was just trying to keep the ship running and get the crew to do their jobs, which I whole heartedly disagree with. If Izzy just wanted to get the barnacles cleaned off he could’ve gotten literally any other crew member to do it, specifically someone who was more equipped to do that sort of work. He chose Lucius specifically because Lucius’s job does not require him to do manual work and that pisses his traditionalist pirate self off. Izzy knew with the captains gone he’d finally have an opportunity to take that frustration out, he had no pure intentions. This was all very clearly illustrated in the show.

That’s why Lucius besting him by the end is so triumphant, because he didn’t let someone who was trying to bully him and invalidate his role on the revenge get him down. I’m sorry, but if you came out of that plot line sincerely believing Izzy was the unjust victim of his lazy coworkers you need a lesson in media compression, because it genuinely baffles me how you could’ve possibly come to that conclusion.

And just to be clear I love Izzy with my whole heart, so I totally get trying to see plot events from his perspective. But I feel like so many of you forgot that he’s a very bad person and one of the literal villains of the show. You’ve woobified him to such an unrecognizable point that you’re twisting the canon events of the show to make it seem like he’s a perfectly innocent and reasonable person. It’s so bewildering and embarrassing to see completely sincere “X character is actually the bad guy for being rude to Izzy” takes.

(This post was partly prompted by me seeing waaay too many mfs on my Twitter timeline say that Izzy is justified for the way he treats Stede because Stede is bitchy and calls him “Iggy” sometimes. As if that in anyway compares or justifies Izzy likening Stede to a dog that needs to be put down. The bad Lucius takes were simply the last straw).

I mean seriously, what happened to the Izzy enjoyers who like his character because of how deranged and evil he is? I’m so tired of so called villain fans who only enjoy villains when they find convoluted ways to justify and excuse their actions. Like, you guys know it’s ok to like bad fictional characters, right? There’s nothing wrong with that. Trying to find ways in which they’re actually not that bad isn’t doing anything, it’s just insulting to the message and intent of the source material and embarrassing to villain fans who actually enjoy the villains and not the woobified internet versions of them.

Excellent meta on Stede, and you really hit the nail on the head on why it's so frustrating (as a real life queer man who found comfort in Stede's journey) to see so many--particularly women--seem to think Stede needs to be "buff" and "bearded" in season two. That's not who he is, and if you ship buff and bearded Stede with Ed, then you don't ship Stede with Ed.

Ed fell in love with Stede for Stede being exactly who he is, and that message is so important. Yeah, Stede gave up his wealth, but that doesn't mean he's going to be a completely different person. It feels like a lot of people who ship Stede and Ed only do so conditionally, IF Stede fits these certain criteria.

I think that bearded!Stede and the unfortunate excusing and idolizing of Izzy's abusive behavior come from the same place. The same people who think Izzy is a decent person deep down, the same people who think Izzy was somehow right for repeated attempted murder and betrayal and violence and racism, who side with and excuse and justify his behavior, are the people who don't think Stede is good enough for Ed the way he is. Who despise Stede for embracing his femininity while still being masculine.

(And there's a whole other post about how deciding all feminine men are trans women is another big problem--deciding Ed is a trans women because of how he expresses his femininity is JUST AS TRANSPHOBIC as the shit terfs say. It's still conditioning certain aspects and qualities as strictly feminine from a place of misandry.)

This fandom misses the point of the show when they latch on to characters like Izzy, and I know it's because he's close to conventionally attractive and because he's an abuser and fandoms love white male abusers (delena, spuffy, this isn't a queer thing).

Anyway. Got a little off track but yeah. Good post.

Well, first of all thank you!

I think many of the bearded Stede fanarts/headcanon stem from the fact that we DO see a change in Stede's apprearance at the end of the season. When he sets off on his own, with no money, he sports a different, simpler look than usual, and even his hair is styled differently. He does look like a more traditional "dashing hero" type, and I think that they went for that look to tell us, through this aesthetic "trope", that: 1) he's dead set on getting his man back 2) he's dialed the romance level all the way up to 11 3) he's ready to show himself to Ed as what he is, no frills and no masks. Just because he likes fine things it doesn't mean he'll always have them, and I think it's important to show us (and to the characters!) that Ed does not just like Stede for what he can offer him meterially, he likes Stede for Stede. (Brb crying about the fact that Ed was ready to leave piracy behind for Stede, and now Stede has left behind all his riches for Ed.)

In fact, I kind of expect the reconciliation to be something like the scene in the Cinderella live action (when Ella and the prince finally see each other again), with Stede and Ed telling each other that they're both insecure, fucked up in some ways, and can offer each other absolutely nothing but unconditional love. And that is going to be more than enough for both of them.

Do I think Stede will keep this look long term? No. But I do think he'll stay in plain clothes for some time and then, after getting his ship and his husband back, he'll find a way to steal some fine fabrics through some elaborate fuckery.

As for Izzy: I think the duality of Izzy (he's an asshole VS he is just very repressed) stems from the fact that in S1 we see Izzy more as a narrative tool than as a character of his own. Izzy is there because the narrative needs him and Jack and the Badmintons to show us what toxic masculinity looks like, so that the other characters can rebel against it. But while the Badmintons and Jack come and go very quickly, Izzy is there throughout the entire show. Of course we are bound to ask ourselves more about him. So, for me, the question is: in S2, will Izzy remain a stand-in for toxic masculinity, or is he going to break free of it? Is he really just an asshole, or is he just at a previous stage of Ed's journey, clinging to violence because that's all he knows? I'm fine with both choices, mostly because I have complete faith in these writers not to fuck it up either way.

In conclusion: Stede Bonnet is awesome and sweet and soft and a little bit of a bitch and I love him very much.

Going to be honest, and sorry if it comes across as harsh, but frankly as a shipper I'm sick to death and frustrated with the expectation that I /need/ a reason to enjoy what I enjoy. I'm an adult. I do not need to justify myself to other people over what /fictional/ media I enjoy. I have been a blankshipper since pretty much when BW were released - nearly /15 years/. In 15 years of shipping twincest not once have I ever had these thoughts turned on my own siblings. Same as I don't think about committing murder or anything because I play games like GTA. I am not forcing my opinions on anyone, and I tag my content and frankly, made myself /very/ clear that I am a proshipper, yet people still came into /my/ space to harass /me/ and get upset. Do you know what it's like to be told multiple times a week "your art/writing would be good if only you didn't make things I don't like" because it's fucking demoralising. I'm sorry for being intense, but it's /exhausting/ to the point of just leaving platforms because I'm sick of seeing that garbage in /my/ space.

You likely know of the last person who came into this space asking about why we enjoy what we enjoy. I can at least say thank you for not being so fucking condescending and self righteous about it. How would /you/ feel if a shipper came into your space and went off about not condoning familial portrayals of these characters and how much they hate it, but oh they're throwing you a bone by having the "decency" to ask about it! Sorry this is so...vent-y. But it's frustrating. There is no "valid" reason why I like this ship. I simply do. And if given the time to think up a reason why, there is absolutely no obligation to justify myself to people who are likely still going to be hostile (generalised, not directed at you in particular). Do you have to justify to people why you like/don't like pizza? Or why you like a certain sport or hobby? No? So why do I have to justify my interests simply because they don't align with your (general) interests and values?

Back when I was super young and didn't think about any implications, I was also a shipper of two brothers, so I can attest to not feeling that way towards my sibling.

Fiction is another story, but real life is a lot more complicated. As I've seen someone suggest, there is a biological disgust wired into us that makes us naturally disgusted by incest.

I do think this needs to be posted, though, for the sake of proving that fiction does not always reflect reality.

TW talking about smut, I hate this convo cause I just don’t think it’s a great thing to write/read but I think this needs to be said

Can’t believe people are talking about smut again oh my god. No one is saying anything about witch hunts or whatever else makes people feel like they’re the victim or something. No, don’t harass people, they’re gonna do what they want and it’s better to ignore it, but here is what I will say:

The reason people have an issue with it, me at least, is because these actors are children. I do not care that they’re legally adults as of like yesterday or some shit, Noah especially, we have seen them grow up from the age of 10. In the show they’re kids, but yes they are still very very young and I see them as kids because I still consider myself a kid too and I’m the same age as most of them. Do whatever you want, that’s how it always goes, but just shut up about it. I’m sorry I don’t intend to be rude, but these are kids. I am talking about the actors right now, those are the people you’re imagining doing these things, they are kids and we have only ever absorbed media of them while they were kids and also playing kids. They’ve never ever been adults in our eyes, they still aren’t playing adults. Why? Cause they’re not old enough. Like I’m just stating a fact here, these are not people in their mid 20s or something. Barely legal shouldn’t count as an adult.

This conversion is frustrating. I will say this again, do whatever you want, I’ll just block you or just don’t talk about it. I try not to talk about this most of the time. But to justify it by saying the actors are adults is ridiculous. Noah is 18 and Finn is just recently 20. Stop acting like you’re the victim when people call you out. Read it or write it Idc, but I’ve seen so many people come on here and act like they’re in the right about this conversation.

Noah or Finn were not introduced to us just recently or when they were already adults. They aren’t 25 year olds playing teens. They are kids and have only been presented to us as kids. I will never budge on that. Not saying people should get harassed or that this conversation should continue to happen, but you are not the victim of bullying because people call you out on your shit.

Once again, I mean actually call out, not just be like *insert name* reads smut, attack!! Cause that’s just dumb and we gain nothing from that other than a whole mess. But if you’re going to make a statement to defend yourself, just remember people have every right to call you out when you say weird shit.

Noah and Finn aren’t full blown adults, stop using that as an argument. Noah is 18 years old. That is a teenager. Do whatever the hell you want but don’t lie to yourself. There’s just so many better things to write about, I just don’t see the need.

Noah and Finn are kids, their characters are kids, and they’ve only ever been presented to us as kids. That is just an important thing to remember when going online and acting like you’re a victim of bullying when people say that writing smut about these two characters is a little weird. Same goes for every single ship between the younger kids, it’s not just byler.