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melbatron5000 · 1 month

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It's a 2-man Con

Listen, I think I know a thing.

When Aziraphale comes back from talking to the Metatron and is telling Crowley about being an angel, we've all heard the theory that he's speaking code, trying to ask for help. The more I look at that scene, the more that theory tracks.

Maybe less well-known is the theory that Crowley didn't miss a damn thing, he's answering in his own code. And again, the more I look at that scene, the more this also tracks.

(When my husband, annoyingly observant beloved partner that he is, saw the second season for the first time, he said, "That whole thing was a show for the Metatron. They have a plan. Crowley slipped something to Aziraphale when he kissed him." And I said, "Nah." But now I think he's right, and damn if he isn't smug.)

I'm gonna try to break down what I think they're saying here, because it takes just a hot minute to piece it together. I've been thinking this over for a couple of months now. I think I have most of it. I just don't know when Crowley puts whatever he's handing to Aziraphale in his own mouth. I need more eagle-y eyes, it seems.

First, Aziraphale comes back from his talk. He's pensive as he crosses the road, and anxious when he starts talking, and mouths "I need help!" as he's talking. He's acting like he does when he lies to the other angels, and once it's seen "I need help!" is pretty clear.

He does the whole thing about telling Crowley he could appoint him as an angel, like old times, but even nicer. It's all very uptight and not positive at all. My interpretation? "The Metatron is here, I think he knows we're up to something, we have to go to Heaven right now and put things right before he really does something awful to one or both of us. The time to spring the plan is NOW."

Crowley stares at him. At first it seems like he's staring in disbelief, but if you really look at his face, he's listening, hard, and interpreting as fast as he can:

He asks Aziraphale if he told the Metatron where he could stick it, then. My interpretation? "The plan has changed. I can't go with you to Heaven. You'll have to go alone."

Then Crowley starts his confession -- "We've spent our existence pretending we aren't."

Aziraphale looks at him -- not with shock, or surprise, or love, or hope, but with a "Why are you doing this now?" face. Not "Why did you wait til now to tell me, you love me, oh, I love you too!" But "Why are you telling me SOMETHING I ALREADY KNOW while our ENEMY IS LISTENING??" :

He's confused, but also listening and interpreting. What I'm hearing/seeing: I don't think this is a love confession from our demon. I think they are both well aware they love one another. They can't say it in so many words, and it's a secret from Heaven and Hell, but it's not a secret between them. I'm hearing Crowley set the scene. "The Metatron either wants us together in Heaven under control, or separated. I have things I have to do here or the plan won't work, so we'll have to separate. We need to make it look good. I do love you."

I don't think Aziraphale likes this change of plan. And Crowley can't detail why the plan has changed, not with the Metatron listening. So Aziraphale insists, come with me. The plan we had will work. Do it my way. Crowley says, "You can't leave this book shop." It's easy to interpret that as "You can't leave me," but I don't think it's that. He's saying something about the book shop being safe, or even that he can't leave without whatever they've hidden in the book shop. (I THINK THEY HID SOMETHING IN THE BOOK SHOP!) Aziraphale says, "Nothing lasts forever." I hear him saying the book shop is no longer safe, and they have to move/take whatever they've hidden and they can't speak freely there anymore.

Crowley replies, "No I suppose it doesn't. Good luck." He's gotten that much, but he is still set on his "We need to fake a break up because I can't go with you."

Aziraphale still doesn't like that. "Come back! I need you!" He's scared. Whatever he has to do in Heaven is big, and scary, and he needs and wants Crowley with him. He does not want to go into the mouth of danger alone.

This is when we get, "No nightingales." What I'm hearing? ESPECIALLY since if you listen, you can hear a LARK sing as Crowley goes out the door? It's the line from Romeo and Juliet, by Shakespeare, whose plays they both enjoy, though Crowley prefers the funny ones. "It's too late, that's a lark singing the dawn, not a nightingale singing to the night, we have to part. Our happy ending isn't yet."

Then the kiss. I do not believe this is their first kiss. I don't believe they've allowed themselves many, maybe not even more than one, but I do think they've kissed before. I'm not sure when, but I suspect 1941. (Season 3, come ON!!)

And when they part, Aziraphale stops himself from saying "I love you," and instead says, "I forgive you." I'm hearing so many things in that "I forgive you." I forgive you for leaving me on my own, I forgive you for hurting my feelings like this, I forgive you for changing the plan without telling me, I forgive you because you are forgivable whatever anyone else says, I forgive you because that's what I said when we split up at the bandstand and everything was okay in the end and I hope hope hope that everything will be okay in the end this time too.

Crowley says, "Don't bother." I'm hearing, "yeah, I hope it's all okay, too. Wish me fuckin luck. My part will be hard, too."

And as Crowley leaves, Aziraphale mouths, "No." And we hear a lark sing. A lark, singing to the dawn, and so fair Romeo must away.

Just because the break up is a ruse, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt and isn't hard. It has to look real, and so it's going to feel real, too. Ouch. :'(

And then Aziraphale touches his lips. Not once, but twice. My bad, he only touches his lips once. The first long second is pure emotion. "Why now, I hate this, I want that so badly and I can't have it."

After that, though --

After he pulls himself together a bit, he has a bulge in his cheek. He shifts his jaw to move whatever he has in his mouth to his lips, and then his first two fingers go stiff for a moment as he palms something right before he takes his hand away.

And then, this.

Edit to add: someone on Facebook asked me why a kiss to pass whatever Crowley gave to Aziraphale, why not palm it or drop it in his pocket?

My answers: 1. The kiss is a message. "We're still good, I still love you, I still want this." 2. The item is too important to be dropped in a pocket and hopefully found later. 3. The Metatron is paying WAY too close attention, and will definitely see them touch hands. Seeing a kiss and the angel rejecting the demon, though? Well, the demon forced that kiss on him, the angel didn't want it. Clearly the demon thinks this relationship is different than it is. It's a bigger gesture that sells the ruse. 4. Houdini's wife used to pass him the keys to his cuffs with a kiss before the show. This is a message that magic-loving Aziraphale WILL understand: here are the keys to your cuffs, sneaked to you by your beloved in plain sight.

That's it. That's what I got so far. I still have questions.

What did Crowley pass to Aziraphale? What's the plan? Why did it change? What does Crowley need to do that he can't go to Heaven again?

#good omens #good omens 2 #good omens meta #aziracrow #final fifteen #ineffable divorce #good omens fan theory #2 man con #they have a plan #they played the metatron and we fell for it #the kiss

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aslashphoenix · 9 months

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So, it’s time that we discuss GO2 ending and why I think Metatron has ASSURED the success of the INEFFABLE PLAN a.k.a, the second coming. (Or has he?)

So first things first: the obvious.

After 6.000 years together on earth, we have established, with any trace of doubt that Crowley and Aziraphale LOVE EACH OTHER.

We’ve also learned that Demons have morals (by Crowley refusing to destroy everything Job holds dear). And that Angels can be TEMPTED (by Aziraphale accepting the food and lying not only to the archangels but to the SUPREME archangel, that those were Job’s new kids).

So, that brings us to the declaration.

Crowley it’s trying so hard to make Aziraphale see that he loves him, completely and unapologetically. That they are more than Heaven and Hell, they are an US.

During that speech, we see Aziraphale very conflicted. He jumps from happy to confused, to sad and angry. He even forcefully pleads Crowley to accept going to heaven with him, using every word that he knows works, in hopes to change his mind (He was desperate when he blared that “I NEED YOU”).

But Crowley doesn't yield, he's still trying to make Aziraphale realize he's wrong for choosing Heaven over them. Which brings me to this dialogue:

C: “Listen, do you hear that” A: “I don't hear anything” C: “That's the point, no nightingales”. “You idiot, we could have been US”

At that exact moment, Aziraphale looks away from temptation, because let's be clear, Crowley IS TEMPTING HIM. But when Crowley sees that words won't reach him, he launches into a desperate kiss, pouring all his heart.

When they brake apart, Aziraphale looks distressed, almost on the brink of tears. He is fighting too many emotions within himself and you can see a split moment when he almost says yes to Crowley, but instead, he resisted temptation by saying “I forgive you”

But why you ask? Why is Aziraphale trying so hard to resist Crowley's temptation? Simple: Metatron.

Metatron used his celestial powers of conviction on Aziraphale by using the coffee as a ploy for his manipulations, but not by spiking it. Metatron went to earth with one simple plan in mind: Make Aziraphale convince Crowley to convert into an Angel or break them apart.

When Metatron arrived, Aziraphale was clearly uncomfortable with his presence and made quite clear that he had no intention of hearing him out, “I don’t believe there’s anything left to be said. I’ve made my position quite clear.” but then, everything changed with this conversation:

A: “You brought me a coffee?” M: ”Are you going to take it?” A: ”Shal I…?” M: “Drink it? Of course. I’ve ingested things in my time, you know.“ A: “It’s …Oh, it’s very nice”. M: “Yes, I should jolly well hope so”

This for me, it’s the utmost form of manipulation from Metatron. The coffee represents an olive branch, offered as a ruse for Aziraphale to completely trust him and let his guard down, by implying that he is not so righteous himself and also enjoys the guilty pleasures that humankind has to offer (let's remember that Angels do not require eating for sustenance, so when Aziraphale does it, it's simply for the pleasure of it. Something viewed as a lack of strong morals for an Angel). Metatron even reinforced this by smiling at him, knowingly.

But he is clearly FAKING THIS, because the second Aziraphale can't see him, he looks at Crowley with utmost disgust. (I firmly believe that was Metatron who Crowley spoke to, about his suggestions on God's plan for the universe. Marking him a person non grata, and by default a Fallen Angel).(Also golden star to Metatron for not just getting Aziraphale out of his safe space (the bookshop), but also for getting him away from the person that could smell his bullshit speech from miles away: Crowley)

The next bit of the conversation is filled with pleasantries towards Aziraphale, saying that he is the only Angel fitted for the position.“ You are a leader, you are honest and don’t just tell people what they what to hear” And while you might think that those are good things, they are actually the qualities that Metatron HATES about Aziraphale.

Metatron played Aziraphale expertly, making him VERY EXITED for the prospect of going back. Because If he can change how things are done in Heaven, that means that Heaven was not the problem but the people running it (and by default, making him a good Angel by lying just to save Job’s children). He could even make space for someone like Crowley, who is neither good nor bad. In other words, Aziraphale intends to PAINT HEAVEN IN DIFFERENT SHADES OF GREY, so he and Crowley could be TOGETHER on the “right side”.

That’s why you can see how pained Aziraphale looked after Crowley left the bookshop and almost backtracked his decision. He didn't because his desire to fix things and create a just and truly good system is greater than Crowley's temptation.

(Aziraphale is saying: The system is unfair and I can change it. FOR YOU, FOR US. Whereas Crowley: The system works as intended. This is not a Bug, but a Feature. We should stay out of it, in OUR SIDE, TOGETHER).

But why would Metatron, a supreme celestial being care about any of this? Because he FEARS THEM.

It was very early established that Demons and Angels are enemies and should not, under any circumstance dwell or interact with each other, because they are hereditary enemies. But what if that's not the real reason? What if Angels and Demons should not work together because they would become extremely powerful?

Through the ages, Crowley has been making miracles for Aziraphale and vice versa, but the first time that they perform a miracle TOGETHER, the Lazarus scale went bananas, saying that that magnitude of power could only be compared to a supreme archangel. And all that happened while they were trying to perform the tiniest of miracles. Imagine what they can achieve by truly joining forces.

TOGETHER as HEAVEN AND HELL, they have the power to tip the balance and frustrate what Metatron think is the ineffable plan.

So, with the second coming afoot, it’s only logical to eliminate that threat. Whether by transforming Crowley into an angel and getting reed off his Hell powers, or by removing Aziraphale from earth and by default, Crowley.

Metatron made a gamble and he thought he won, but he lost.

If we know anything about these characters it's that they could always rely on each other “I can always rely on you and you could always rely on me” The love and care that they share for each other it’s a crack on Metatron’s manipulations, that will grow and shatter his plan. (At first, Aziraphale will truly believe that he is making a difference and that he can change Heaven like Metatron implied, but soon he will learn the truth: Heaven and Hell won't change unless forced to).

These two ARE THE INEFFABLE PLAN that God designed:

Bringing BALANCE INTO THE UNIVERSE by destroying Heaven and Hell, not their residents, but the institutions themselves. No more Heaven, no more Hell, just celestial beings going as far as they can with what they think is right.

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eviebane · 5 months

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Trust Me - Aziraphale's Season 3 'Bullet Catch'

Fell the Marvellous has saved Crowley before, in 1941, with a perfectly timed sleight of hand. Now this time he must save everything, with his own death-defying 'bullet catch'.

Neil is up to something

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mother-ofthe-universedraws · 3 months

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Simon meets Fiddleford

#Simon made a friend #Fids is neck deep in Society of the Blind Eye shenanigans at this point #hence the amounts of scabs and bruises #as well as the beard #I spent forever on that background lol #it’s a pretty good piece tho if I do say so myself #gravity falls #simon pines oc #simon pines #stanley pines #stan pines #fiddleford mcgucket #son of stan au #son of stan #same coin theory #I do plan to include some Fiddlestan in this AU #cause I like them #and it’s my AU

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taakosleftshoe · 9 months

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Nanofather Lore insanepost

Alright. We've seen my murderboard. It's incomprehensible. But for those who haven't, here it is:

It includes... a lot of everything. I couldn't begin to describe the journey I went on putting this together. Without further ado:

The Nanofather, also known as "The Weaver," "Creaky Man," and sometimes "Geltfrimpen" or briefly as "wily weaver," "dirty jeremy," "muck dweller," and "crusty man," is a recurring ominous character which appears most frequently in the opening segments of The Adventure Zone: Steeplechase. He says a lot of weird shit. And after 33 episodes, I believe I have a pretty good understanding of this shit. Take a walk with me, through this 8-part dive into what the Nanofather's deal is.

I will warn you, this is... insanely long. Turn back now.

1. The Foretelling [moments leading up to the weaver]

Back in episode 18 of Ethersea, Justin mentioned how he's the last of them who has yet to DM. Then, later in the episode, Griffin loses his train of thought and Justin prompts him with "Spin the... spin the yarn" and the riffing leads Clint to say, "weave," and Justin says, "step up to the loom... let the weaving begin at the loom."

In the next episode, as the intro song fades out, Justin interjects in a high falsetto song, singing "Weave another tapestry! McElroy Family and me," and the bit goes on for a minute or so. Later, in Ethersea 24, when trying to convince Griffin to reconsider what happened in the narrative, Justin asks him to "Check your loom, weaver!"

When Justin finally makes his Steeplechase debut, he initially struggles with starting the story. So, Griffin jumps in with,

Griffin: "Can I do what you usually do to me?" Justin: "Please." Griffin: "And be like [singing dramatically] 'The yarn-spinner takes the loom in his hands and weaves a magical tale. Take the wizard by his hands as he flies you around on his rug made of wings and a angel’s hair.'"

Every subsequent episode has the same opening. The recurrence of these instances have culminated in the persona of "The Weaver."

2. The Stew [in which the nanofather discusses various culinary topics]

The Nanofather routinely brings up the food of his world, in some way. This starts as early as episode 3, in which he says, "Perhaps a few more moments before the stew is prepared."

Other segments include advice about nano-nutmeg [12], clarifications about cilantro (called corriander in the UK)[29], and directing the addressee to search for pepperoni and green pepper in "the pyre" [19].

The other three instances of mentions of food directly address Shookles the cat. First, "Shoockles, your master calls. Where's the scum canteen? Fetch it from the shoof... my thirst is unslakable" [7]. Then, in the very next episode, says, "Please... the pollen broth. My throat became so dry... Fetch me the pollen broth, Shoockles" [8]. And most recently, he speaks rather dramatically, saying, "I believe I went… as far as I could… I don’t know if… it was far enough… I’m terrified to push it further… I believe this is the limit… Yes… no, that’s true… It’s true… The greater danger is hesitation, yes… I will add one more half-teaspoon of cumin, Shookles. Thank you, Shookles, I… should listen to your culinary acumen more" [22]. This is assumedly in reference to something he is cooking, perhaps the stew mentioned in episode 3. Perhaps all of these ingredients are being used in the stew.

Either way, these interactions tell us that the Nanofather has an interest in cooking, and that Shookles acts as an assistant to him.

3. Direct Interactions [in-character conversations]

There are several instances where the Nanofather speaks with our player characters, or appears within their world.

This first happens in episode 20, when the crew enters the lair of Geltfrimpen and hears a voice familiar to the players coming from the dragon. He says, "Excuse me for this, but I have to keep up appearances." He continues to speak with the boys throughout the scene as they fight the animatronic. He says, "I’m having trouble staying here," and within the scene, Justin describes that, "The sound seems to be coming from like... the entirety of Geltfrimpen. It’s emanating from him, not localized to any one point in the dragon’s body." Beef asks the Weaver if he could come out of the dragon, to which he responds, "Would that I could." When Montrose begins refering to him as Geltfrimpen, he says, "I am not Geltfrimpen. I am here. But I am not Geltfrimpen." Emerich asks for his name, which is met with "Would that I know," but because Beef had called him creaky man earlier, the voice says "Creaky Man will suffice for now, I suppose. A good amount of christening."

He goes on to explain his situation at their behest:

"I will do my best to tell you what I know. It takes quite a bit for me to be as here as I am. But I will try. Part of me is in Geltfrimpen. But I am many places throughout the world. Part of me is here. Part of me is imprisoned here, I think. And through this act, I am no longer... trapped here, this part of me. I’m able to be more concentrated, if that—if that is the correct word, else... elsewhere... I will not be here long, and then I will vacate Geltfrimpen for good. And I will be a little bit more myself, elsewhere."

The implications within this one paragraph are that he does not have much of a physical form, and is potentially some sort of spirit, but he can manifest part of himself at will in some places. Montrose asks if he has a home base, but he says, "I’m... scattered. More accurately, I think... shattered."

He follows with even more interesting information,

"I’ve seen you elsewhere, I was... in one of the vans, as you made the thrilling escape. I was there. I called out, but it was so loud. I have watched you from the porch of Ustaben. In the... the whittling I sat, a rocking chair... I couldn’t summon up enough voice to reach you, but I called out. I called out to anyone who would listen, honestly. But you three are the first who seem to... be looking hard enough to hear."

There have been two heists with van escapes. The first is in episode 3, when Gravel pulled up in a stolen truck/van (it is important to note that they use them interchangably). The four of them were the only ones in the vehicle. However, this escape was not very thrilling, so we are going to refer to the Gutter City heist.

Sticky Finger(s) Paul Pantry asks the three of them to steal a truck called the Clean, and notes that it is made of Hardlight. When the time comes, Emerich has attuned with the hardlight Short Doug and drives in one of the trucks with him [9].

The second thing the Nanofather mentions is an obvious reference to the Ustaben attraction, Whittle Around. In the setup episode, Whittle Around is established as having a porch where "grandpa" sits and whittles wood-- grandpa, of course, being a hardlight construct who was initially Eustace but has since been replaced [0].

The combiantion of these two implies that the Nanofather exists for moments within, or as, these constructs. His spirit seems to be able to travel between them-- to what extent this is under his control remains questionable. Perhaps he is living within the park itself, haunting it. This is given further support at the end of episode 27, when an arcade machine in the back of Poppy's Place crackles with static and we hear the Nanofather say, "act... quickly." Emerich however is unable to make further contact, and this is the last time he seems to interact with them. Montrose says that they "have a ghost in the machine"[28].

4. The World He Inhabits [what we know about the environment, the character, and allusions to mechanisms of communication]

In his first appearance, the Nanofather says to the audience (which may be moreso to the players/player characters? uncertain), "welcome travelers," establishing that we are not from the same place he is.

The world he lives in is fleshed out through each episode. Highlights include "quite a long day tending to the muck fields" [5], "I've missed the meeting with the rust council"[13], and the afformentioned scum canteen. He also says, in episode 6, "I have a new tale for you. Of a muck-dweller turned hero to his- to his people… I seem to have lost it in the last rust storm." This sets him in a sort of wasteland. He also says, or rather, sings, "I'm a neutron guy, you're my nega-girl, I'll sweep you through the ash waste as we make our way through the,"[10] before he cuts himself off.

It seems to be a world where things are rough-- he says, "to make it 37 years is quite a blessing"[13]. That implies his age is 37, or that he has survived 37 years in the conditions that he is in. Additionally, he says, "you will find it in the pyre"[19], a pyre being defined as "a combustible heap for burning a dead body as a funeral rite," implying that they either have to make their own fires or 'bury' their dead.

Notably, there seems to be a recurring theme surrounding weather and time.

"It's gotten so quiet, lately... in the nights... and in the mornings... and the cyber night, the time between the night and the mornings..."[14] "It seems the storms have come early this evening"[4] "The last rust storm"[6]

This implies that time is somewhat technologically controlled, and weather is on a cycle. The building of Steeplechase, or what we are to assume is, is like holographically augmented[31], and so are the inside skies of the park. It is plausible to say the environment wherever the Nanofather is could also be simulated.

5. Wall Breaks [speaking to the players]

These indicate communication from the nanofather directly to the players. They imply to us more about the world, but more importantly, the means of communication and lore surrounding it.

In episode 9, we open the episode hearing a different voice. They say, "Hello? …Hello, spirits?" and begin to knock. "Nanofather says the spirits can hear you through the wall. Spirits… are you there?" But they are interupted by a familiar voice-- "Kavecca!," the nanofather says. "Just another of his stories, I suppose," Kavecca amends. "Kavecca, away from that! You dabble with powers you do not understand!" This raises a lot of questions from the players, about who Kavecca is, why there is another person speaking to them, and what the fuck the 'nanofather' means. What interests me is the referral to their audience as "spirits"-- and what implications does that have? Are they between the world the players inhabit and Steeplechase? Are the players spirits? Also factoring in Blades in the Dark, which has ghosts in it, which have been altered into hardlight for Steeplechase-- maybe the hardlight kept some of that original intent. Maybe that's how the nanofather is able to inhabit hardlight.

In the following episode, we find the nanofather singing a song. What follows is pretty strange.

ohh… I’m a neutron guy… and you’re my nega-girl… I’ll sweep you through the ash waste as we make our way through the…. [click] …do you hear me, Travis? Travis: What? I’m sorry… I didn’t realize I’d left the horn on. Travis: Are you speaking, are you- talking to me? Fare thee well. [10]

First, in "I didn't realize I'd left the horn on," a horn is primarily UK slang for telephone. That could be interpretted here as a literal telephone or whatever line of communication they seem to share. Next-- he directly addresses Travis. This is the first conversation the players have with this character, and so far the only. But it isn't the only time he addresses them:

Clinton? Travis? Gribby? My three… my three favourite micro-nephews. Here to visit me. What a wonderful treat this is… Come. Let me see if I can’t find you a new tale… Griffin: Gribby! Gribby can only say his own name. Justin: Oh? Griffin: Yeah, that’s sort of his thing. Justin: Do you… how do you… I’m surprised you have insight into these three new characters… already. Travis: I’m trying harder and harder to just pretend like we are not on the call when he records that part. Griffin: It’s the only way to not be... ensorcelled by the tapestry he weaves. Clint: Not me. Not me. Did you say Clinton? Clinton… Travis: It sounded like Clinton. Clint: I wonder who that is. Justin: Clinton, Travis and Gribby are apparently, I’ve just found this out with you guys, is— did he say— Griffin: The micro nephews. [15]

This is interesting because Travis is the only one whose name is not altered, and he was specifically addressed before. What we also glean from this is that the nanofather views them as micronephews, so he has an alleged relation to them. Previously, he has called them children but it wasn't apparent until now that he was addressing them specifically.

In the intro with Kavecca, it is important to note that they are the first person to call the weaver "the nanofather." We know from his time as Geltfrimpen that the nanofather has no proper name. Nanofather is more likely to be a title, or rather, a signifier of Kavecca's relationship to him, such as being his child or grandchild. This would put Kavecca on the same family tree as Clinton, Travis, and Gribby, if they really are his "micronephews."

6. Descent Into Weirdness [tonally different moments and their implications]

Everything The Nanofather says is weird, but these are the moments that absolutely baffle me, or upon which he is commenting on the story somehow.

The first time he seems to comment on the events of Steeplechase is in Episode 16, in response to a plot twist at the end of the previous episode (in which the Barrister arrived to kick Emerich's ass but they got him stuck in a machine). He says, "Oh, that’s not right… [rustling paper] …Oh, but this doesn’t make any sense, it was… The story wasn’t like this …. Or… I-Is it changing?" He then follows this in the next episode by... just... breathe-whistling menacingly? Note that this episode takes place when they are travelling between layers, on the start of their Ephemera quest.

Episode 18 starts with, "Oh… Oh, they haven’t… even begun to fathom it… But you…. You swore, we both swore? You know they’re not ready!" I wonder who the "you"/"we" is in this. Is it us as the audience, the players, or perhaps Kavecca? Eighteen is the beginning of the time they spend in Ephemera, and at the beginning of the episode Krystal has an encounter with someone in the Gallspire. This adds on to the commentary in 16 and implies that there is something bigger at play...

Episode 20 presents us with a poem of sorts:

Ever faster, ever closer, ever never slowing down… Ever nearer, ever clearer, ever nipping at the gown... Ever spinning, ever grinning, ever hearing what they please. Ever growing, ever knowing, that they are the disease…

There is no direct indication of what this is talking about, but I think it's about Dentonic. They never slow down, they don't know when to stop dreaming! They will warp whatever they must to fit their narrative and they don't care what the casualties are.

When the Weaver makes his entrance into the world of Steeplechase, at the end of 20 and speaking through Geltfrimpen, these occurences get more frequent:

"Oh, I… I’m mostly… mostly… with them now… [chuckles] ah… ah… smaller than I… assumed…" [21] "Mostly… echoes… yet to be… I’m sorry, I know that doesn’t… answer your question…" [23] "Yes… yes, I was surprised too, Shookles. What? Oh… Oh, they didn’t hear…"[25]

25 ends with Gravel being arrested for Sticky Finger Paul Pantry's murder. 26 opens with, "…yes, but I’d assumed it was… consigned to legend! I never would’ve expected- i guess… my understanding is not… what I’d thought it was. Terrifying, in a way, but also… quite wonderful." I can't even begin to parse what he's talking about.

Then of course, there is 27: "No, no, not to the boat... Only one... one node per layer... I tried to maintain hopping... but it’s too taxing... too many...noises..." What fucking boat? And he tries to hop between layers- maybe the nodes are in the things he is inhabiting. Geltfrimpen, the arcade box, hard doug, eustace... The arcade machine and Geltfrimpen aren't made of hardlight, and these are the methods through which he has actually been able to speak (he could only see through hardlight)... maybe these are the "nodes?" I wonder what the noises refer to.

When things start looking down for the crew as they try to piece together what the fuck is happening, The Nanofather opens episode 28 with, "I’m not sure yet… I’m hopeful… Ah, Shookles… optimistic…or perhaps… perhaps optimism is just the last refuge of those… with nothing left to lose..." The Nanofather is referring to himself in this line, and the fact that he considers himself to have "nothing left to lose" implies that he has a strong connection to the events in Steeplechase, particularly to the crew-- which makes sense given their previous interactions. But what is at stake for him is unclear.

In episode 30 he says, "The thought had crossed my mind… But it can’t be long now…" I must say this is particularly ominous because I have no idea what the "thought" is or what he is waiting for. His salvation?

Finally, we have episode 31. His last appearance.

"It feels… like something… has frayed…"

In this episode, Kenchal Denton speaks to the crew a lot about cutting loose ends. And then he drops them out of a hovercraft into a desert that seems to be entirely disconnected from the electrical grid Steeplechase is on. And we don't hear from The Nanofather again.

7. Ties to Clint McElroy. [the ways in which this comes back to him.]

[post-discussion following the moment in episode 10 when the nanofather asks, "do you hear me Travis?"] Travis: Is that guy my real dad? Justin: You wish Griffin: Legally, you have to tell Travis, if the muckdweller is his real dad Justin: Not the muck dweller. The nanofather. Please- Travis: Oh, it's right there in the name! I should have seen it a mile away it's so obvious now!

Now, this may be a stretch. And it started out to me as a joke, but guys. The further I get the further I am convinced. The Nanofather is connected to, if not is, Clint McElroy the Planeswalking Janitor.

Evidence A: He calls them "children" when he goes to tell them stories. Counterpoint: Clint can't be his own son. Counter-counterpoint: Clint's full name, according to Griffin on an episode of Wonderful, is Clinton Emil McElroy Jr. Meaning, he has a father named Clint.

Evidence B: When the Nanofather refers to Travis, Clinton, and Gribby, Justin later describes them as "these new characters," in the same way he insists that Clint McElroy his father and Clint McElroy the Planeswalking Janitor are separate things [Spiritbreakers Live in San Jose].

Evidence C: The Nanofather hops between layers, in a similar way to how Clint hops between planes. And the Nanofather seems to be fractured, scattered, not his whole self. He is powerful but weak. He is able to speak to players, characters, and potentially the audience? It transcends the boundaries between the two worlds...

Evidence D: Justin is a big fan of the TAZiverse. He has shown this multiple times but the ones I remember most are of course, when he introduces "Taako from Television" in Ephemera (and other Balance things, implies it was a legend passed down, etc), and when Griffin introduced that he would be playing Indrid in Dust 2. Like of fuckin course he'd be excited to bring things together more in small ways.

Evidence E: There has been increased Clint McElroy the Planeswalking Janitor activity, the most since before Ethersea. In April, Justin played the character Clint McElroy the Planeswalking Janitor in a liveshow in San Jose (I was there hi!!!), which had initially been planned for November but was rescheduled. Both of these, though, fall under the time in which Steeplechase was active, so he was thinking about this character during that time. Additionally, the merch of the month for August is a sticker of Planeswalking Janitor Clint McElroy. And he was mentioned in Steeplechase Episode 26, when there was debate over whether something was said by Emerich or his player.

Travis: I think that was Dad. Justin: Oh. Well, I mean... yeah, I guess dad could be in it too, Trav. Is that what you’re saying? Travis: No, I’m just saying, I think Dad was making the observation— Clint: Oh my God! Is this an appearance by Clint McElroy, the planes-walking janitor? Griffin: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Clint: Okay— Travis: No, no, not yet. Justin: No, we can’t, we can’t. Travis: Don’t force it, don’t force it.

Evidence F: I didn't expect to find this one. Honestly I think it shows that I have gone too far as a person. But... guys this one drives me crazy. So. We meet Shoockles in Episode 4, when The Nanofather introduces him as "Cat bart... he's my cat. Bart Shoockles." And guys I was like haha that's funny there is no way this is related... But then I was on Clint's Instagram trying to figure out if maybe he had a cat, since I know Justin has one. And I came across a photo he took of a white dog, which I wasn't sure was his until I got confirmation from an old post on one of the boys' Instagrams. But... in the caption of the post with his dog, he calls him Homer. Clint McElroy has a dog named Homer. Let me just, direct you to the Simpsons family tree:

Finally, Evidence G: Justin would go really far for a bit. He likes to have fun and get silly with his family and he knows Clint would get a huge laugh out of this. And he would also do anything to get a good age joke on his dad.

8. Conclusion [how it all comes together]

The moment you've been waiting for. What does it all mean?

The Nanofather seems to play no real importance to the main plot in Steeplechase at this point, but he has huge potential to. More importantly, looking at the Nanofather gives us some insight into the state of the park and where the player characters find themselves. He works as both a narrative framing device and as a part of the story. He talks to the players, the characters, and the audience, truly bringing a special flavor to Steeplechase.

With everything we've seen and heard, there is sufficient evidence to say that the Nanofather lives within the walls of the park, travelling using its energy grid. He has only been able to manifest to the characters through the electronics and hardlight creations. When they arrived in Kidadelphia in episode 32, it was apparent they were not connected to the same electrical grid, and there was no hardlight. The fact that he was completely silent in both 32 and 33 supports this theory, because there would be no way for him to communicate with them. Either that or they were too late and he died.

He has found himself in a wasteland, with weather and times that are controlled electronically. He is scattered, does not have a name-- a shell of who he once was. If the Carmine Denton Nanofather theory were correct, this would be a beautiful picture: the guy who created a way for others to escape is trapped in the destruction that his creation wrought... Regardless, I am concerned for his wellbeing since it seemed like he was in a hurry.

The interactions between the Nanofather and the heist crew imply that there could be a larger plot with him, but I don't know how close that is to happening. The Nanofather is one complicated guy, and if they want to save him I... guess they'll have to never know when to stop dreaming.

Thank you for coming along with me on this long and gruesome ride. I started this way back after episode 30 aired, I think. It's been simmering for a month, my own personal stew of sorts... For those of you who have helped contribute to my madness, thank you, and to those who have watched in horror, I'm sorry. It's been a real one.

And now, to send you off, I present to you this excerpt from Episode 10:

Justin: Our friend and employee Jupiter is kind enough to help pull together recaps of this dumb stuff, but Jupiter, showing a lot of wisdom here, does not track the story of the nanofather […] Travis: I think they realize it's been so clear cut at this point that any child could keep track of all the nanofather/muckdweller lore.

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canyoureallycallthisablog · 7 days

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Oh yes my favorite duo, 'AAWEHEHEGWGWV 🥺🥺' and 'I'm barely tolerating your ass'

#Deltarune #utdr #ralsei #kris dreemurr #i don't actually believe in the 'Ralsei is actually in love with the player' i just think the idea is funny #in tea theory terms: kris getting 60+ health probably means they like ralsei enough considering the circumstances #but them barely tolerating him because he's putting an annoying uwu vibe to please the player is a way funnier #people in the fandom worrying over Ralsei being all suspicious but I'm here to show you that's actually a good thing #imagine how unbelievable funny it would be if his cute face just dropped the second the player isn't looking #and ralsei tries to explain to kris that they should also act a bit more put together for the sake of their plan #'kris professionals have standards' and proceeds to do his dumb looking down blushy face #anyway thanks for listening to my insane ramblings about sus ralsei

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good-soupmens · 8 months

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Ik the good omens fandom has different takes on God as a character, but I like the idea that she DOES have an ineffable plan, and Heaven is doing their absolute worst job carrying it out.

Most angels never talk to God, and they're usually selfish, they don't do the right thing (only what they're told), and it's even possible they're working under a corrupt power (like the Metatron). I like that theory because Metatron IS the barrier between God and the angels. He could easily lie to them and change plans, and we the audience know that "friendly old man metatron" swindling Aziraphale is not what he seems.

But from the beginning, we see inconsistency. Crowley falls from heaven after asking questions/hanging out with the wrong group while Aziraphale is allowed to lie about the flaming sword and change Heaven's plans. God can see how much he cares about humans and the earth by his actions (Crowley being the same), which makes me think that him getting away with it is intentional, not inconsistent or neglectful. ESPECIALLY if Aziraphale and Crowley run heaven and hell respectively in season 3. They have the power to change things, just like they stopped the world from ending the first time. I think Crowley and Aziraphale ARE the ineffable plan.

Their love could bridge the gap between opposing forces in a way that it couldn't if they were both angels. After all, both heaven and hell think they're doing the better thing while they're both not. Crowley and Aziraphale are the best of both sides.

If bringing them together was God's plan, it'd be a powerful story for queer Christians!! A lot of us have been hurt by the church, but we hold on to God's love, which doesn't fail us. We stay in a religion with a history of fighting queerness not because we're all brainwashed, but because we wholeheartedly believe in a God that loves us. Sometimes I see good omens' heaven as an analogy for toxic churches, and I'd love nothing more than for Aziraphale to realize heaven is working against God. Not to mention God using a gay couple to save the world/save heaven from corruption?? I'd kill for that storyline

Secondly, Aziraphale's devotion wouldn't have been for nothing. If God was awful the whole time, it defeats the times he and Crowley reached out, and the moment in the GOs1 finale where Crowley says, "what if you're going AGAINST God's ineffable plan?" to Gabriel and Beelzebub. (It'd almost defeat the purpose of her being the quirky narrator following their story, too.)

Even Crowley, never fooled by "heaven is all good" calls for God in his time of need ("God listening? Show me an ineffable plan.") (Possibly when he reaches to the sky in order to stop time) (Calling for God before Satan in the burning bookshop) (Looking up and muttering "God" after realizing Aziraphale is going to leave him in s2)

Lastly, after the trauma that both Crowley and Aziraphale went through, with Crowley falling and Aziraphale coming to terms with heaven's corruption (and both being mistreated by their side) it'd be nice to have been for a reason. They have every right to grieve and be angry for all that they went through, and the centuries that they weren't supposed to love each other, but I believe the series will end on a positive, sweet note, like the rainbow after a storm.

Like Job, they're losing almost everything (their relationship as it was, the bookshop, and the life they carved out), but they have each other. I think they'll lose everything to save EVERYONE, and in the end, the reward will top the pain. No holding back, no forces hunting them down, just them together after a PAINFULLY long time with everything they'd wanted.

We know that God doesn't get around to answering many questions, but her speech to Job was in part to say "trust me"

She laid the foundations of the earth. She made every living thing. Job couldn't see past the destruction of his life, but she has a plan. Job is a valuable human being, but he doesn't have the power and knowledge of God. God will share her plan when he can make a whale. Otherwise, he can trust that "Most things are fine in the end"

*Aziraphale voice* That's ineffable!

#ineffable husbands being the ineffable plan PLEASE #again. God being a good character in the end would mean a lot to queer christians like myself #and for the amount of times that ineffable is thrown around. it turns out ineffably #I'd like another reason to hate metatron also. I would love plot-wise for him to be the main villain #I also NEED Aziraphale to be right about some things. he was wrong for leaving Crowley but he should know what he's doing #his actions should be more important than “he's just brainwashed”#Crowley deserves reconciliation and a purpose for his pain #“it is not good for man to be alone” (God creating eve) parallel with putting aziracrow together #god good omens #good omens meta #metatron good omens #good omens season 3 #good omens theory #good omens #ineffable husbands #good omens season 2 #crowley #aziraphale #aziracrow #good omens spoilers #crowley good omens #ineffable plan #queer christian

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thoughtspresso · 9 months

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Aqua plans to die.

And his death will be necessary to take Kamiki down.

While the full details of Aqua’s revenge plan isn’t entirely clear to all of us yet, his intention to place himself in danger as he tries to take Kamiki down is a very clear, and very crucial part of the plot that he anticipates.

Before we can dive into how Aqua is going to achieve his revenge, we need to back up a little bit and understand who he is as a person, how he makes decisions, and what he personally wants.

What is Aqua’s Goal?

From a top-level view, Aqua has a singular emotional goal:

Aqua wishes to take responsibility for the deaths of his mothers.

Aqua/Gorou absolutely believes that after two lives of the same thing, that he was the common denominator. He was the fault his mothers both died, because he was useless and helpless. Had he never been conceived, and more crucially, if his mothers did not have to lie about his existence, they would have both stayed alive. If Gorou’s mom didn’t have to conceal the pregnancy from her parents, or did not have one at all, she would have lived a long life. He believes that perhaps his second chance at life was to save Ai, but he was paralyzed and helpless during her murder. He blames himself for Ai’s death too.

This is a driving force in Aqua’s character, and informs all of his decision making, even to the detriment of his own plans most times. It leads us to his supplementary goal:

Aqua wants to keep the people he loves safe.

Whether it was shielding Ruby from entertainment or making sure she’s in a safe agency with good group members, or Akane not going too far in enacting his revenge plot for him, or Kana from steering clear of a career-ending love scandal, Aqua’s key traumas has led him to feel compelled to take action and do whatever it takes to save people if he had the power to do so.

Here is a breakdown of Aqua’s plans, and some key questions we have to ask about each one.

1. Why make a movie called The 15-Year Lie? And what is “Ai’s true wish”?

I have reason to believe that Ai’s DVD for Aqua would have either been a message about wishing to be loved truly and be hated with full honesty for the person she really was, that she wanted her actual self to be revealed to people. In line with that, I think Aqua’s DVD included Gotanda’s original documentary for the B-Komachi dome event. Which is why Gotanda tried to defend Aqua's decision to reveal her secret in chapter 112, and why in chapter 108 Gotanda says about the script that “this is finally my time to fulfill that promise.”

2. What does he mean by “using Arima Kana”?

There were theories circulating that the person who texted Frill Shiranui could have been Aqua, trying to get her to encourage Ruby to play the role of Ai in the film. However, that couldn’t be any farther from the truth. As we know, Aqua was saying that Gotanda should “grow up” and understand that the most important thing for a movie is to succeed commercially first before we talk about artistic value.

If Aqua had full control over the situation, he would have just straight up casted Akane. After all, that was what he initially proposed, and even contacted her for it despite saying he’ll never have anything to do with her again. What he needed, more than anything, was for the film to succeed commercially. And with the headlining actress no longer (a) the most famous celebrity of their generation, or (b) the heralded genius of their generation, Aqua has no other options.

Except: Arima Kana.

I think the aspect of him using her or manipulating her is mainly to encourage her publicity activities. He’ll be encouraging her to do well in her work to garner more star power for the movie to really be a success, and for her to help his sister be the perfect lead for the show. He’s also going to bank on the idea that Kana will do things for him because she has a crush on him, which he only realized in Chapter 102 after Mem-cho points it out, that he can pursuade Kana to get out of the way of his revenge plot if necessary to keep her safe or place her in the spotlight to attract people’s attention for the movie.

While unlikely, he might even encourage her to stay on a little longer until Ruby gets to the Dome performance.

Or, and maybe this is my shipping delulu talking, but it can also be that he’ll try to just be around her frequently to garner media attention about their relationship. In this way, keeping her close without actually dating her could serve a dual purpose: get people talking about them and the movie, but also make sure that Kana stays safe and nobody makes a rumor of pairing her up with anybody else.

Lastly, also not super likely but another option could be to convince her to headline the show, and play Ai in Ruby’s stead.

3. Why does Kaburagi say that the film is bordering on illegal?

This is a truly crucial piece to unveiling Aqua’s plot. We know Kaburagi likes producing shows that include good-looking young people, and that seems to be his main strategy for raking in young audiences and cashing out.

So why would he have hesitated, even for a second, on a plan to cast the top talent of this young generation, on the biggest news Japan has been talking about, handed to him by a first-hand source--the son of Ai himself?

On all accounts, this would have been the perfect formula for a smash success. So why would Kaburagi say things like, “do you have enough evidence”, when everybody already knew about the University student stalker that murdered her? What was so controversial?

Unless, when they said Aqua will play the culprit, they didn’t mean the Ryosuke.

They meant he was playing Hikaru Kamiki.

Here’s what we know about the film, and what I think Aqua is trying to do:

1. Portray Kamiki in the worst possible way and destroy his reputation.

The 15-Year Lie will be a biopic about Ai’s life from when she was starting out as an idol. Ai will be portrayed as a poor girl abandoned by her parents, searching for the true meaning of love. We know that this framing will be part of Ai’s characterization because of the scenes where Ruby struggled the most:

In the search for love, they will show her falling for a young man and talented actor at Theatre Lalalai--that being Hikaru Kamiki. Once he gets Ai pregnant, he abandons her, and she runs off to the countryside to hide from the press. When Ai asked him to come visit her, Kamiki, in wanting to protect his career, attempted to send out a stalker. A few years later, seeing his kids wotagei on social media, he manages to find them again and kill Ai.

It is a complete and utter character assasination of Hikaru Kamiki, and while revealing Ai as a flawed person, draws for the sympathy of the viewers to love Ai for who she truly is. Which is exactly why Gotanda keeps insisting for Ruby to play the role, even when Aqua and Kaburagi have sensible recommendations for Akane and Frill.

At that moment, when Ai dies, Aqua will reveal his face, and openly declare that it was his father who orchestrated it all. Then he might even portray his father murdering Ryosuke himself, instead of the suicide that was reported in the media.

2. Aqua will use himself to bait his father out, and force Kamiki’s hand to kill Aqua.

The main reason why Aqua finds it necessary for the film to be a commercial success is because he needs the general public to be one hundred percent in agreement that Hikaru Kamiki is an evil man that deserves to be jailed. (Whether or not he reveals his name in the film, which he could but doesn’t need to.) This public lynching is his first control.

But here’s the thing: Kamiki didn’t directly murder Himekawa Airi and Hoshino Ai himself. At this point in time, Aqua is not aware of Katayose Yura’s murder either. And there is no evidence that connects Uehara Seijirou and Ryosuke’s suicides as murders by Kamiki’s hands.

And on top of all that, when these things happened, Kamiki was fully a minor.

Akane’s fears and interpretation was that Aqua would murder his own father because it’s the only form of revenge he could enact himself.

But she’s wrong, there’s one more thing Aqua could do: make Kamiki commit murder again. If he kills Aqua, there will now be a murder that the public agrees without a doubt was done by Kamiki himself.

He can go to jail once and for all, or he can also get stabbed by an angry fan--Aqua doesn’t care. All he cares about is that it’s a sure win, and it’s over forever. He launches his sister’s career into the spotlight, he keeps everybody safe, and he atones for the death of his mothers with his own life.

In summary: Aqua plans to get killed by his father, so that an actual murder has occurred for which he could be jailed or publicly ostracized or even killed.

And here’s why I think Aqua will fail:

Aqua’s assumptions about his father are incorrect.

He believes that Kamiki’s reason for killing Ai was because her pregnancy would ruin his reputation and career as a rising actor. That’s why Aqua tries to hit him there. And he believes defaming him might provoke him to get killed.

But I don’t think Kamiki cared about his reputation at all anymore. He left his career as an actor behind after Kindaichi kicked him out of Lalalai, and went on to graduate from Faculty of Science. He never went back in front of the spotlight, instead opening a talent agency around the exact time he believed his kids might be joining the industry.

I have reason to believe that Kamiki thinks murdering Airi and Ai was to protect his children or some other great act of justice against his rapist(s). And that even killing Katayose Yura was done because he didn’t want a liar like her to take the spotlight that was supposedly for his daughter Ruby.

I don’t think Kamiki will harm Aqua.

But I do think he will come forward and expose himself and his twisted justification, and he might even openly give interviews to the media.

Instead, I do believe Kamiki might pay attention to Kana’s honest acting--something he’s never seen before in a person, and try to get close to her somehow. And if Kamiki’s name is not revealed, and if the theories are true that Frill works for Kamiki’s agency, he might recruit Kana to join him.

All this is to say, get Kana out of this manga. Somebody, please save her.

#oshi no ko #oshi no ko spoilers #onk spoilers #onk fantheories #oshi no ko fan theories #Hoshino Aqua #Aqua Hoshino #Arima Kana #Kurokawa Akane #Hoshino Ruby #ruby hoshino #Hikaru Kamiki #Character Analysis #If you're reading these tags please know that Aqua is like Edward Cullen planning to walk in front of the Volturi in broad daylight #And Arima Kana is Bella driving a yellow sports car in full speed trying to not get him murdered #But seriously he blames himself so much we should get Robert P to play him in the live action good god #The Chuunibyou is strong with this one #These are the gambles #I am allowed to be incorrect

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itsscottiesstark · 2 months

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Okay but can we talk about this for a sec?

Crowley was actively trying to get Aziraphale to agree to help him stop Armageddon, mere hours after he delivered well, not delivered delivered, handed it over the antichrist.

By the time that happened, they'd already spent a significant amount of time at the park talking about this, then they had lunch. And when Crowley suggested they get drunk, they went to the bookshop.

Meanwhile, Aziraphale admitted, in the light of day, in the middle of the street where everyone could hear him, that he wasn't interested in helping him.

Only on the way there do we see Aziraphale say that "this is purely social".

My man didn't give two shits at that point about Armageddon. He wasn't spending his time with Crowley thinking about that. He was merely enjoying their time together.

He's so in love, help-

#they're in love #aziraphale loves crowley #good omens #crowley #aziraphale #crowley x aziraphale #david tennant #michael sheen #good omens season 1 #good omens s1 #good omens Armageddon #good omens antichrist #adam young #ineffable partners #ineffable idiots #ineffable husbands #ineffable plan #good omens episode 1 #good omens theory

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chirpsythismorning · 2 years

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Something we should definitely not overlook, because it feels relevant to birthdaygate, is the individual character posters for season 4.

There's actually even an interview with the Duffer Brothers, where they were asked about this theory:

Though, I should clarify, this interviewer got a few details wrong, as it appears Max was actually looking away from the camera, not directly at it. Not only that, but she also wasn’t the only one to do so. She was one out of four total...

Looking directly at the camera: El, Hopper, Murray, Will, Argyle, Steve, Dustin, Robin, (not shown above: Karen, Lucas, Erica, Nancy, Eddie)

Looking away from the camera, to their left: Joyce, Mike, Jonathon, Max

We could deduce that this visual choice was foreshadowing Max getting cursed by Vecna in season 4, and Matt did sort of elude to this in his response to the question, seeing as it was focused only on her. But what could this possibly mean for the other three then?

Initially, it didn’t seem like we got anything substantial enough in s4 that could have possibly paralleled Joyce, Mike and Jonathon to Max's situation, or even being cursed by Vecna like she did for that matter. Well, except—

I do find it interesting that the same episode we see Max slowly discover she has been cursed, in an episode literally titled 'Vecna's Curse', it's March 22nd, Will's birthday, and in real time we are seeing the three people who would definitely never forget Will's birthday, presumably forget.

Because undeniably, the first thing that crosses my mind when it comes to what could possibly connect these three characters with each other, is Will. He's what connects them all. But even more specifically, THIS scene below is what connects them all, a scene which, might I remind you, has a major emphasis on the word 'remember':

Joyce: Do you know what March 22nd is? It’s your birthday. YOUR birthday. When you turned 8, I gave you that huge box of crayons, do you remember that?

Jonathon: Do you remember the day dad left?

Mike: Do you remember the first day that we met?

Vecna:

Not only do I think this means that Vecna most likely took away these three's memory of Will’s birthday, I also think it means he took away this specific memory and all the memories mentioned within it.

If it's all coming full circle and everything leads back to Will, it would make sense that Vecna 'took notes' during this whole incident in 2x08. These memories and these specific people in Will's life played a role in thwarting Vecna's plans last time, so obviously, he's not going to give them the chance to do that again.

This also brings up some interesting questions:

Were those weird POV shots of the Cali gang, that looked oddly stalker-ish, meant to represent Vecna keeping a close eye on them, to make sure his plan was still in motion?

How long will this manipulation (curse) Vecna has on these three last? And to what extent? Will it all just come to a head right away in early season 5, at a moment when they're trying to save Will, but they inevitably fail because all of the relevant things that saved him last time, are now missing from their memories?

And last, but definitely not least, is it possible Mike wouldn’t have gone through with professing his love to El, the way that he did, even going as far as to say his life started the day he found her in the woods (the day Will went missing), if he had remembered already doing the exact same thing with Will…? If he had remembered the best thing he'd ever done was ask Will to be his friend? Because if this theory is correct y’all... MIKE DOESN'T REMEMBER!!!???

Well, that's all (for now)

Please be sure to check out this post if you haven't already, but even more importantly, scroll down to the bottom of that post, because there I have linked all the most incriminating evidence thus far.

And trust me, once you read all of it, it's pretty much undeniable.

I also hope this gives some validation to those of you out there who denied vehemently that Joyce, Mike or Jonathon could EVER possibly forget Will's birthday. Because you were right. Technically, they didn't. Technically it required an inter-dimensional monster for this to be possible at all. So props to ya'll and your faith in these characters! YOU WERE RIGHT!

#stranger things #will byers #stranger things meta #stranger things theory #birthdaygate #stranger things 5 #st5 headcanon #also hate to be the bitch to bring this up...#but you know how we always joked about how jonathon would be the only one to save will bc he knows his favorite song...#well.. in that scene in the shed back in s2... jonathon mentions that memory...#which means he doesn't remember #WHICH MEANS WILL IS FUCKED BASICALLY #yeah it might be good to go back and see everything they mentioned #because it's basically a free for all in terms of vecna swiping those memories right out of their brains #will byers im praying for you #that whole thing about s5 going back to s1 vibes has me scared...#but also there's a lot of foreshadowing that mike is in danger.?#so im not totally convinced he doesn't somehow mess up vecna's plan yet again...#maybe that's how him and will both end up stuck in the upside down together...#yes I will turn this around so it benefits me #what about it?

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