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#it isn't being picky

chirpsythismorning · 1 year

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The Hellflire Club Foreshadows Mike's Monologue (and More Than You Think...)

Several fans have noticed already that there are direct parallels between Mike's monologue in The Piggyback, with Eddie's monologue in The Hellfire Club.

While we've been grappling with all sorts of supernatural creatures over the course of Stranger Things' entire run, here Eddie is warning us about forced conformity and how that is the real monster.

This has also led fans to joke painfully about the fact that Max 'died' because forced conforming; that's what's killing the kids, aka Mike's whole speech to El wouldn't have happened the way it did in the first place, had him, Will and El not been trying so hard to be who they think they're supposed to be, instead of who they truly want to be.

However, what I want to add to this discourse, because I haven't seen anyone else acknowledge it (correct me if i'm wrong!?), is that this scene at lunch has two extras with whom Mike sits between, which are very likely meant to represent Will and El.

We've seen a lot of (love) triangle blocking used with these three before, often with Mike between the two. This screen-cap below has gotta be one of the most iconic and so I feel the need to mention it briefly:

What also makes this shot relevant as an example for this post, is the costume choice for Will and El here: the same shade of dark blue (hints of gray), and the fact that this doesn’t align with the colors/style they usually wear as individual characters. However, this was presumably one of the few times Will and El have genuinely interacted beyond supernatural happenings. And so now, with both of them standing on either side of Mike, after two seasons of him having only one of them beside him, and while the other was out of reach, what we're seeing is that these two are more or less two sides of the same coin. Whether Will and El are actually blood related (I'm like 75% sure they could be) remains to be seen. However Mike's bond between both of them individually is causing him to sort of be at war with himself (and his identity).

Now bear with me, because I know so many of you see theories/analysis involving set design/blocking/costumes and you just instantly check out and stop taking it seriously. But I can assure you, this is the real deal.

What follows, is so outrageously easy to overlook. And yet upon thinking about what it actually requires to film a scene, especially a scene like this with dozens of background extras, along with how this scene actually turned out, I'm going to explain why there are several factors which make me feel fairly confident about what these two specific extras represent.

To start things off, we know how this scene begins, with Eddie dramatically reading a Newsweek magazine:

"The Devil has come to America. Dungeons and Dragons, at first regarded as a harmless game of make-believe, now has both parents and psychologists concerned. Studies have linked violent behavior to the game, saying it promotes satanic worship, ritual sacrifice, sodomy, suicide, and even... Murder."

After they give us a short introduction to some of the faces of the Hellfire Club (notably Eddie), they cut to this point of view shot from Mike:

Here we are instantly introduced to the two extras that are going to dominate a majority of this scene outside of the main characters themselves, aka Willel...

note: interesting they don't include Mike in the shot for that specific sound bite below... almost as if he considers himself a freak for a different reason...

Yes, on the surface this scene is establishing that Mike and Dustin are finding a place in High School, as the freaks and geeks, but a place nonetheless.

Though, is that really all there is to it?

You'll see what I mean.

note: there's no meaning behind the circles touching here. i just wanted to acknowledge here that the El extra is visible at first, only for her to become hidden the moment that the Will extra becomes visible.

Now, this shot right here below is kind of iconic, because it's what made me realize that this girl extra here in the scarf represents El.

To provide a little more context, the Will extra next to Mike has already been picked up on by a decent amount of fans. I've even posted about it at least once. This guy definitely resembles Will at certain angles, to the point where he could arguably be a stand in/stunt double for scenes that don't require a close-up of him.

Also keeping in mind, this is a scene of the party in high school, in a D&D club. Assuming Will could have stayed in Hawkins and went to high school with the party, he would've more than likely been right here beside them. So that's what I initially got out of this scene and still partially do get out of it, regardless of these other observations I'm discussing here.

What's so fascinating about the Will extra though specifically, is that they avoid showing his face as much as possible, which is a unique choice that we're just not seeing be applied to the other extras in the frame. They even let us see the face of the guy across from the Will extra (blue/yellow striped shirt guy) multiple times, but apparently they really wanted to avoid showing this guys face (there are a few notable, but fleeting side profiles from an outside POV), almost to keep up this guise that we could imagine this is Will and hell, it could be him, bc it's pretty damn close.

However, upon recently rewatching this scene, I remember looking for other points when this Will extra might have been prominent, to see if I could find anything else.

And that's when I realized this girl in the scarf, directly blocks the Will extra at the most convenient time.

And that's when it hit me...

FORCED CONFORMING!!!!!!!

The following images below is when it really starts to get obvious that there was an intended direction going on here with the blocking of these two extras, in accordance with Mike's placement in the frame.

What sealed the deal for me, was noticing how the other extras surrounding them (excluding Willel), do not seem to be granted much importance in the continuity of this scene.

Continuity between shots is pretty essential to filmmaking. It's gotta be the main thing about film that just bugs me, which is that you can tell very visibly when a shot is followed by another shot, but from a separate take (has the capacity to ruin the illusion that this is real and not all fabricated).

For example, what I gather from the beginning of this following conversation, is that there were at the very least 2-3 takes done for these reaction shots of Dustin and Mike, and it's because the extras in the background give it away. Sometimes they're in the frame, sometimes they're not.

The Will and El extras provide a contrast to all the other extras, in that the continuity for their blocking in the frame is fairly spot on each time, equal to the standards of the main cast arguably. Meaning they had a mark and they had to stick with it.

Check this out:

side note: star wars reference (luke & leia??)

The most obvious thing that gives away the importance of these two extras, besides the blocking, is them both sporting an almost identical color in their costume. While the Will extra wears a maroon shirt, the El extra wears a scarf in that same color.

This is so simple yet sort of genius, because again, from what I understand, no one has noticed this, and so it's pretty epic once you finally do pick up on it.

The Will extra is almost always in the frame on Mike's right? The El extra is facing the the opposite direction as them (not on the same page), and wearing a scarf, which is there to represent the tentacle choking her during Mike's monologue...

This theory does take a turn for the hilarious, when at a later point Eddie starts monologuing again, while Dustin and Mike look at him fondly (w/ Mike in focus), the Willel extras are now nowhere to be found...

I think this choice was made to indicate that Mike's attraction to Eddie is based on the most basic type of attraction, while what he shares for Will and El is so much more complicated (and deep). When you're just experiencing everyday attraction, you're not thinking about your significant other or your hearts desire in that moment, because this moment is just a blip encounter that isn't going anywhere, it's attraction and that's all there is to it. Whereas what he feels truly for Will is true love, while what he feels truly for El is familial love. This tiny moment isn't about his conflict over his romantic feelings, it's about the fact that Mike is attracted to men.

And then what follows directly after this, is that little snippet of Eddie's monologue, which echoes Mike's monologue to El at the end of the season...

Oh and look who it is?! The El extra has made a reappearance, just in time!

This is one of the few times they made a point to have the El extra in the frame while the Will extra wasn't, which I also think is intentional because it could be a hint to how Mike's speech about falling in love with El the moment he saw her is a fabrication (copyright to be exact), and it also doesn't resemble the love that Mike has for Will, hence why he was almost entirely left out of those shots. (Also similar to Mike's monologue at the end of the season, where Will was in certain shots but not others, because the words did/didn't match Mike's feelings for Will at those points).

Lastly, we get a Gap (gay and proud) reference for Mike. And low and behold, the Will extra is making a reappearance, just in time!

I think what makes this scene easier to understand on a basic level, without making it too complicated for yourself, is comparing the implications that come with it, to the implications that came with Mike's monologue.

The choice to put Will in most of the shots, directly behind Mike as he professes his love to El, who is lying before him unable to look in his eyes or even respond, leads those truly paying attention, to the conclusion that this is not how you shoot a satisfying love confession. Therefore it can't be a genuine love confession.

Instead what this scene more so depicts is a character having a confession practically wrenched out of him. And because of all the other details happening over the course of this season and just the series overall, we can gather that Mike feels pressured to go through with this because he thinks he has no other choice.

They didn't beat the big bad this time, instead they lost. Because forced conforming, that's the real monster.

With only one season left, they're going to have to face the truth if they want to make it out alive this time (and happy!).

#byler #stranger things #stranger things analysis #mike's monologue #stranger things theory #blocking #costume design #the hellfire club #the piggyback #these scenes could have taken a long time to film #when you've got dozens of extras #with upwards of at least 5-10 in the frame at times #you have to account for continuity and making sure each shot reasonably matches the previous #the problem is sometimes you get a take that's really good but the next part of that same take isn't good #so they have to go with whatever shot works best #sometimes that means having to settle for shitty continuity #and that happens a lot when there are lots of extras #because being picky would make you a pain in the ass to work with #especially when it comes to young actors #though it does seem to me like the willel extras were probably a big part of the framing of each shot including them #bc it's way too consistent in comparison to the other extras for them to not have been in the notes for the shot in some capacity #we also see other times when extras look like will #so this is a decenty common occurrence #i think it also does a good job of hinting at will being in the back of mike's mind at times when we least expect #which is also why will is in the back of the frame facing him constantly #bc in those shots will represents mike's feeling he has for will that he's repressing...#they've been doing that heavily since s2 this is not new at all

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mollymauk-teafleak · 2 months

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the most tragic of circumstances, finding a song with lyrics that perfectly describe your ship but you don't vibe with the melody

#it is me being unnecessarily picky about what melodies I vibe with #but look at the lyrics of cannibal's hymn by nick cave #and tell me that isn't huskerdust

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batsbolts-andfangs · 21 days

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Does anyone know if there are actual replycon templates out there? I don't want to go to a request account because usually they don't let you make changes and give to you as is, or they get annoyed when you request too many changes and don't tell you that they're annoyed. :( I'm working with someone to make a replycon but I also want to make my own to alternate between!

#🦇 ︴batty babbles #this isn't aimed at anyone btw- i am just really picky and that has annoyed others before so I don't want to risk being bothersome

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sketchy-scribs-n-doods · 1 year

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the way i wish there could be more good faith analysis and fic about billy having adopted racial prejudice from his dad and then learning to properly recognize it and grow past it in order become a better person. i wish there was more posts and fics that tackle the bullshit lucas has had to deal with as a black kid in small town indiana because the duffers never even considered it. but the sheer puritan black and white thinking and performative activism or moral virtue signaling or whatever the fuck that is so pervasive in this fandom means that even the few posts and fics that dare to try and actually tackle racism tend turn it into either a punishment narrative, are depressingly shallow about it, make it about hating and liking the 'right characters', or miss the mark entirely

like i get it, homophobia/transphobia is easier to explore and talk about for most fans. it's complex and multi-layered just like other types of oppression, but so much of fandom is queer and dedicated to shipping and labels that yeah, i can see how talking about it is just. easier for a lot of ppl. also a lot of fandom is white. and lots of white gays get weird about discussing racism in their spaces. y'know the deal, but i digress. from what i can see, very few ppl want to explore how racism affects our favorite characters and the stories they live in. i know some ppl are probably afraid of getting it wrong, or they don't know anything about it and don't feel like they should. it's like, my blorbo is queer and so am i, so why wouldn't i talk all day about that? i get it. but it honestly just means a lot when someone tries earnestly. i have read beautiful fics about trans love through hardship by cis authors and such genuine fics about connection in the face of racism's poison by white authors.

there is just SO much untapped potential in exploring lucas and max and billy and patrick and argyle and all the other characters directly and indirectly affected by bigotry and racism within the narrative that never got the acknowledgement it deserved. plus it's super weird being used as a 'gotcha!' by white fans that hate billy (as if poc fans of billy aren't capable of seeing it for the bullshit it is) or seeing lucas' treatment in the show get brushed aside like it's nothing or how argyle gets sidelined an awful lot in the fandom (and don't even get me started on how messy the classism in this fandom can be, the borderline erasure of eddie's poverty and its effects on who he is as a person in fic is insane sometimes)

anyway. idk if any of this makes sense, but i can count like maybe 3 good fics and maybe a dozen good posts about billy that actually address this in good faith and only maybe a dozen more for every other character i mentioned. and i desperately want more. i am brown and queer and i want healing and love for all of these characters and i am going to have to start churning out more of it myself at this rate.

#the dozen or so good posts are all by my mutuals at this point lmaoo #and 1 of the like 3 only good fics is ALSO by one of my mutuals #oh actually i forgot about TOWNIE make that 4 good fics and 2 written by my mutuals lol #billy hargrove #i cant tag any of the other blorbos bc then ppl will start acting stupid in my notes #i may already be playing fast and loose bc i mention my man argy #this is super incoherent bc its late for me so im not in the mood for clowns #it's rly mostly bc either billy is painted as horrible bad racist who is either forever so or needs to grovel and suffer to redeem himself #OR ppl who like him dont rly know how to tackle the obvious racial prejudice in his actions and try to toe it aside #like yea i love him but that boy isn't gonna magically free himself of any bigotry without some in depth introspection #or some very specific headcanons about what he got up to in california and what was motivating him when he treated lucas like he did #and even then you gotta acknowledge it #idk man maybe im just picky like no one is obligated to write fic this is mostly me bitching #except for the overt racism and classism n shit in this fandom that im being deadass about #but yes TOWNIE + Spin Me Right Round + Yourself or Someone Like You fic supremacy #if you have recs. hand them over pls. i have a Need.

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luimagines · 1 year

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Your current tags so far from what I've seen, Pinky. Hope this helps!

Monster!Reader: Used for any Reader who is inhuman and monstrous whether in appearance, temperament or abilities. EX: MAG!Reader, standard Monster!Reader, Onimusha!Reader, MAG!Reader, Baoh!Reader, Altered Beast!Reader

MAG!Reader: Used for Reader whose been Magnified, made into a berserker type giant supersoldier.

Digimon!Reader: Used for Reader whose involved in Digimon in some way. EX: Wild's Spouse, Cyber Sleuth!Reader

Pokemon!Reader: Used for Reader whose involved in Pokemon in some variation. EX: Pokemon Trainer!Reader

Dream Jester!Reader: Used for Reader who came from the Dream World and is performer like in nature

Persona!Reader: Used for Reader whose involved with Personas in some way. EX: Wildcard!Reader

Modern!Reader: Used for Reader who came from the Modern Era or real world. EX: Songbird!Reader, Digimon!Reader, Pokemon Trainer!Reader

Wizard!Reader: Used for Reader greatly skilled in magic usage

Android!Reader: Used for Reader whose mechanical in nature such as cyborgs or androids. EX: Inspector Gadget!Reader

Little Link: Used for any Child Link not part of the Chain. EX: Sweets (SonicAsura's OC)

THANK YOU!! DX

There's so many. I just wasn't sure if I tagged it as Mag! Reader or MAG! Reader or even mag! Reader.

Like that picture of Toby Fox's coding where he wasn't sure what he named the file for Undertale so he just coding in all of them. Like (Undertale, UnderTale, undertale or UNDERTALE.. I think that's all four of the options he had).

You're so sweet though for sending this. Thank you so much <3

#pinky replies #Ok- well.... Little Link isn't entirely correct. But that's me being nick picky #little link was used mostly for Lucky and other characters that would fit his same role within the parameters of the chain and this au #like Sweets #or for the Luminous Stone??? (au)....god #that might be the wrong name

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kaitcake1289 · 1 year

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i reaally wanna know what people think about dana's character development throughout the series

like in season 1 she was presented as a young somewhat timid but passionate and friendly person who was mostly shown as rachel's love interest

in season 2 she was shown to be a determined upcoming coder that idolized both poppy and ian, less timid but also more headstrong while also dating rachel

in season 3, she starts to branch out as a character away from just her relationship with rachel, where she grows more and more fed up with poppy and ian the more she gets to know them while simultaneously revealing she has an almost inane sense of confidence, and is invested in crypto which sorta came out of left field for me and many others

my main source of confusion is how she's essentially, like poppy said "out-ianing ian" this season and while i admit this isn't something i'm 100 percent against it's strange given that she had seemed to take on this change completely off camera between the gaps of season 2 and season 3 as by the end of s3ep2 she's already bonding with ian because her and him are somehow extremely alike

tldr dana progressing into a mini ian was definitely jarring as it was never hinted she was anything like him before this season and she virtually turned into him out of pure coincidence off camera but that may just be me misremembering/misinterpreting her character

#sorry for being overly critical and nit picky all the time im just like this #im unsure about a lot of things this season but i love having discussions about them sue me #this change isn't unwelcomed it sorta just comes out of left field but maybe that's just me #mythic quest #dana mythic quest #ian grimm #kaitlinshottakes

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arctic-hands · 10 months

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My datemate is starting up a new campaign and since my character carries a leather journal around they bought me this 🥰

[Image Description: a smallish, (a little less than A5 but not as small as A6, by just eyeballing it) dark brown leather journal with brass corners and a long strip of leather around it to tie it closed. End I.D.]

Lookit! It's bulleted!

[Image Description: the journal opened to show brownish paper, with a dot grid over the pages. End I.D.]

Am I tempted to use this as my regular journal? Absolutely not! The leather is real but the paper quality is atrocious, and less tan-toned or dyed brown and more like old mass market paperback book quality paper. Which is why I guess a leather journal was only twenty bucks, but as long as it handles mechanical pencil I look forward to chronicaling the campaign!

#for the record i chose the journal they just bought it for me so this isn't me being snide #I'm just picky about paper for most of my projects #but it doesn't matter for a game log as long as the pencil doesn't tear the page #anyway #dnd #little gremlin characters in pointed hats

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sunbudc · 2 years

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i also think robin's mom should look not so much like her daughter. just a bit.

[ID: Two colored cell-shaded drawings of Nico Robin and Nico Olvia from Shōnen Jump series One Piece by Eiichirō Oda, side by side. They are depicted in portrait form here for both. Nico Robin has thicker eyebrows and a more pronounced nose compared to her canon anime iteration. Likewise, Nico Olvia is changed more substantially; she has brown eyes, slightly thicker eyebrows, a rounder diamond-shaped face shape, and a small yet defined nose. Robin is turned to the side with a smile, away from the camera. The drawing on the right of Olvia defiantly looks at someone level to her height. End ID.]

made this back in october when i finally watched the enies lobby arc and started hollering about weird same-face syndrome lmao remnants of my haphazard notetaking are under the cut <3

[ID: A screenshot capture a collage of images. The first two are of pre timeskip Nico Robin and her mother Nico Olvia from One Piece as shown in a flashback. The third is of those two images superimposed via overlay and burn functions in an art program on the other, showing that the two are nearly exact copies of the other visually. The fourth, captioned with 'me rn', is of a man sitting despondently on a sofa with a bottle of alcohol.

Additional notes are scrawled throughout, including:

"wtf wtf"

"???????"

"*overlayed w/burn*"

"LMAO NO" End ID.]

#waugh okay understand that me being picky about how a character looks is not reflective of them being a badly written character #bc that is supremely unfounded and kind of insane actually. don't do that.#i just want olvia to look.. idk maybe a bit rounder? maybe smaller features? visible stress via hints of eye bags and sunken cheekbones?#just something that isn't robin but with white hair #one piece #fanart #op nico robin #op nico olvia #coby draws stuff

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