harley quinn (2000) #13

[ID: Harley Quinn staring pleadingly at Pamela Isley after asking her to run away from Gotham with her. Pam bluntly replies, “No. Can't.” Harley continues to look at her longingly as she slowly admits, “I thought we were friends, Ivy. I like you... Admire you, even. Always wanted to be strong and independent like you. But I guess you're so strong and independent... you don't need friends.” She leaves as Pam still doesn't turn around to face her, her face hidden in shadow. END ID]

Long Chaggie rant ahead

I think a reason Chaggie get called "boring" is that they are waayyy past that beginning stage of their relationship TV love to glamorize.

They've been together for three years and already have that comfort level with each other that not everything is a new discovery. They accept each other's differences and just support. That's what a well established relationship is like.

Of course they are still heavily affectionate and loving with each other because duh, they're in love. Society loves to repeat the bullshit "losing the spark" problem in relationships and how "marriage is so hard" but most of these situations are people that barely even like each other let alone love.

I think that's why media loves showing either beginning stage relationships OR trope-y enemies to lovers and variants of that.

ESPECIALLY in the case of queer relationships because it's only fairly recently that it's been normalized onscreen and I don't think we're used to seeing a normal queer relationship. Like think about it.

Media has always loved showing the gays as deviant and toxic because that's been the only way it was allowed to be seen. I think many of us have gotten used to seeing ourselves that way that it's been normalized.

Personally, I'm in the boat of I'm sick being seen as deviant and like it's bad and wrong thing to be in love with someone of the same sex. For me, Chaggie has been healing because it's just two women being a healthy happy couple. Something that society and even family have told me is not possible which hurts beyond words to hear.

So yeah, I love Chaggie. It is the best wlw canon ship in fucking YEARS and I have been craving representation like this. The very things that I get dirty looks at for irl, is completely normal with Chaggie.

They can hold hands, lean in together arm around shoulder, quick casual kisses in public, give each other goo-goo eyes, just general affection and couple-y behavior as well as the "been together for 3 years" quirks and routines. Like I swear I cannot remember any other wlw ship like this so yeah, it's gonna hit me hard in the feels.

And when characters like Lute and Adam are disgusted or fetishize it, it's very obviously portrayed as villainous behavior. Everyone else just accepts them as they are.

Of course it's not just the normalization of those things but specifically in the context of they've been together for 3 years and are still very much in love and have nothing to prove to each other and just face any conflicts as they come like a normal couple.

Most media especially TV have gay couples break up after that amount of time just for drama points and cuz us gays cant ever last in a long term relationship apparently 😒 And I feel like that especially goes for lesbian relationships on TV. I've seen wayyy more long terms mlm relationships than wlw in main roles.

(Wonder if that's cuz it's just so unbelievable that women could actually love each other cuz society just is so attached to the idea that all women hate each other)

Basically fuck Chaggie hate. We need more wlw long term relationships like this onscreen. I'm tired of being seen as deviant and likely to be toxic. And I'm not saying they need to be perfect. They're obviously not and have some issues but that's a good thing. Every couple has issues.

I'm just saying not all gay onscreen need to almost destroy their relationship in order to repair it.

I just really find it incredibly annoying that some will slap the "boring" label on Chaggie when it's more likely that a long term healthy happy wlw relationship is just that bizarre to them. Just let women actually love women for fuck's sake.

Lumity and Conflict

            We’ve all talked about Lumity being a really healthy relationship, a refreshingly healthy one at that, but we should also appreciate how the writers manage to have this AND portray conflict in a way that isn’t contrived, too.

         Take for example, Follies at the Coven Day Parade. It’d be SO easy to have the conflict come from Amity going ahead with checking Luz’s videos, and then have her and Luz argue over the breach of privacy, like in a lot of media. But instead, Amity KNOWS it’s wrong, but at the same time she can tell Luz has a problem and a tendency to keep it secret, which forces loved ones to call her out until Luz finally confesses and asks for help!

         So Amity’s conflict is whether or not she SHOULD go through Luz’s phone, and it resolves in a healthy manner because she goes to Willow for advice. That of course continues the plot thread of these two attempting to reconnect after their sorta reconciliation in Willow’s mindscape, and sets up the eventual confrontation between the two in Labyrinth Runners, regarding Amity still continuing to underestimate and condescend Willow, even if from a place of good intent.

         And that’s so much more interesting than Luz and Amity drama for the sake of drama, because now we get to throw in Willow and Amity’s dynamic and check up on how it’s developed, set up how it WILL develop, all while having Amity manage to do the right thing, but with some meaningful struggle and discussion, sympathetic and nuanced given her legitimate concern for Luz (rather than insecure snooping for the sake of it) and her issues of bottling up, on her way to do that!

         And we do see Amity struggle with insecurity over her and Luz’s relationship earlier, but she doesn’t take it out on Luz; Instead, we have her struggle with Hunter as the two are paralleled and contrasted in their relationships with people they care for and feel the need to impress, due to the abuse of their childhood! Again, more interesting and less stereotypical than Amity being the toxic, possessive lesbian trope.

         And Luz and Amity still have conflict WITH each other, like in Reaching Out, but it manages to avoid feeling contrived because it isn’t drama and jealousy for its sake, it’s about uncovering an aspect of Luz’s past, a fundamental experience, while also following through on addressing a character flaw she’s displayed for a while! Thereby advancing Luz’s growth instead of creating a reset for both girls to work through all over again. I like that Luz and Amity are allowed to be a healthy couple and have conflict, while also still navigating that conflict in a pretty healthy way.

         I think it’s a nice message to kids about how your relationships can be healthy and still not be perfect, if you put in the time to communicate and work through those problems, because every relationship will have issues. But what makes it healthy isn’t the absence of issues, it’s how both parties handle them together.

         Plus, Lumity still struggles with conflict, albeit together, both of them facing another problem; There’s stuff more lighthearted like Any Sport in a Storm, in which we get to see Luz and Amity struggle with an issue, but they do it mutually. There’s no drama or problem between them, it’s the two tackling a separate thing together and we get to see them interact and have fun with no concerns about their relationship. There’s still conflict and there’s still Lumity, but we see how they actually function as a duo together in synergy, how they approach outside things as a unit, without the dynamic itself at stake, just a shared objective. The conflict isn’t between Lumity, it’s Lumity VS Something Else.

         Then we have Clouds on the Horizon, which is Lumity coming together, to fight against Odalia and her control, her abuse and disapproval; It’s only Luz and Amity’s love for each other prevailing, no doubt about their standing with one another, against an outside force, Odalia. Dana said she and the writers intended Lumity to act as a sweet counterbalance to a lot of the angsty struggle, and indeed it provides some light-hearted relief seeing the two just get along and be happy together! But they still manage to balance and spice it up with some conflict sometimes, without jeopardizing the relationship because it’s not contrived conflict either.

         It’s Lumity against an outside force, or it’s Luz and Amity navigating being in a relationship, while being both relatively mature and understanding about it, AND allowing room for insecurities for them to feel and work through. Their relationship doesn’t feel more precarious or toxic because of the problems, it ends up feeling MORE healthy because Luz and Amity take the time to acknowledge and work on them (unlike Raeda, who are messy in their own compelling way).

         And we still do have Luz genuinely mess up (such as her and Amity’s separate conflict with Kikimora that episode), she gets to be a flawed individual who makes mistakes, but it’s not out of a macho disregard or apathy for her girlfriend; Likewise, instead of expecting Amity to settle as the unconditionally supporting, demure GF, the narrative does make a point to Luz that she has some responsibility to let Amity in, and that Amity can only take so much of it, and she’d be right to set those lines for Luz to cross! 

        There is conflict between Luz going off and being a hero, getting into trouble, and Amity having to back her up; But it’s a conflict that takes the side of Amity and others who played that role, which is refreshing to see. They both take care of each other, which I’ve already discussed how Amity does, but don’t forget Luz did it plenty in S1, then in Eclipse Lake, especially Clouds on the Horizon where she plays a role of support to Amity going out and getting into trouble, enables her GF to be the one up to mischief! It’s really neat, is all.

        There’s conflict in getting Lumity together, but for all the buildup of coming together in a relationship, we also get to see them navigate being together as the second half of their storyline, rather than the ending. So it’s the reward of Will They or Won’t They culminating in They Do, coupled with the narrative of them AS a relationship, not just becoming one, both ends of the spectrum. Wonderful balance. 

I'd make a longer post (and maybe one day I will) but since Lore Olympus, the story that introduced me to webtoons is coming to an end I'd like to say something:

I can't believe it is considered problematic. It has to be one of the sweetest, fluffiest, simplest stories I have read (hence why I still like it, it's a relaxing read before bed) and somehow it got too "kinky" for mainstream. It's laughable.

Everytime I dare to click on their tag or look for the # on Twitter or FB I see people clutching their pearls as if Lore Olympus were brainwashing teenagers into marrying a non existent God of the dead and have babies with him. What the hell?

The fact that people think LO is too dark makes me laugh. A single episode of Rick&Morty, BoJack Horseman or HQS has way more explicit content and dialogue. In fact!!! If it were up to me LO would have gotten genuinely kinky!!! All it does is have some surface spicy tropes that get sugar coated to not make puritans awkward and tbh that's sad. LO and the author get terribly hated anyway for daring to portray the most common female fantasy.

And this all makes me laugh but also mad because you'd think LO at least has some genuine dark themes but no? At most we have Persephone's trauma due to Apollo's abuse and yet that topic is treated as a therapy pamphlet because people couldn't handle an imperfect victim. Hades is a wife guy who shows little to no anger. Hera was re written to be sort of a feminist so that people stopped being annoying about women having emotions.

LO is a sweet, simple story with tiny spicy things here and there that were eventually pushed aside because people couldn't handle it. I wonder how Rachel feels about this, because at the beginning the story was extremely spicy and the only crime was being published in a platform as webtoon, full of people who can't differentiate reality from fiction.

Is LO a masterpiece? Idk! I enjoy the story, it's very self indulgent for me, but I won't go and analyze every detail to see how it should be labeled as it's not meant to be a perfect media. It's meant to be an entertaining, nice story of romance and it does that job very well. This need to demand perfect writing while also crucifying authors over "dark" themes is ridiculous and contradictory.

And I keep wondering, if these people loathe LO so much, why dedicate all that time to the infinte posts they make about how they would have told the story? And all those re tellings are boring! It's always "So Persephone and Hades won't ever kiss here because she's a lesbian. Also he doesn't appear at all. And Demeter isn't an abusive mom! Oh and everyone is ugly because gods shouldn't be beautiful! And Apollo isn't evil he's uwu baby. And no toxic relationships here, Zeus is a good husband!"

Sweet Gaia, you guys wouldn't handle Saint Seiya having Athena in the body of a teenage girl with big tits and who's constantly in the edge of breaking her virginity vows. These attitude screams of jealousy and puritanism and both are disgusting.

TLDR: LO being too problematic for people is both funny and annoying. I wished it actually were as kinky and dark as people insist it is. I'd pay for a toxic romance, but that being said, I LOVE it very much as it is and it's nice to have a re telling that, while not pretending to be loyal to mythology, didn't went for a route of sanitizing all the myths. I hope that once it ends haters will move on and let real fans and the author alone. 🙏

𝙰𝚕𝚕 𝚃𝚘𝚘 𝚆𝚎𝚕𝚕 (𝙱𝚊𝚍𝚊 𝙻𝚎𝚎 𝚡 𝚁𝚎𝚊𝚍𝚎𝚛) 𝙿𝚝. 8

Synopsis: an audio of your argument with Bada was leaked out, Bada is receiving bad press and affecting team Bebe's overall performance and you decided to step in.

Warnings: this is just an emotional piece. some cursing but i swear this is gonna be a happy ending.

(A/N: We're on the last part of this series. Thank you everyone for supporting this story from the start until now. Love y'all and again, thank you so much for the support.)

Prologue | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 |

Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8

🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁🍁

It's been days since that emotional encounter with Bada and the audio of your conversation with her somehow got leaked to the internet. Many people had criticized Bada, even throwing hate at the team members as well but then there were people criticizing you as well. Mean comments have flocked your social media that some of your friends have stepped in to defend you but you know what could get you and team Bebe out of this situation. As much as you would like to just let Bada get dragged through the mud from all this, it didn't sit well with you that her team is getting bullied by people who don't know what happened just because they're on the same time. It wasn't fair. It's yours and Bada's problem, not theirs. They were out of it.

"Yeni, I'm planning something. For my own peace and for team Bebe to not get involved in mine and Bada's mess.. It's unfair, they're suffering because we were stupid back then. It doesn't sit right with me." you told Yeni. You're not her girlfriend yet but you wanted to be transparent with everything. You don't want to blind side her about your plans especially when it involves Bada.

"Do what you have to do, alright? I'm just gonna be here for you. Do what you think is right." Yeni says and gave you a hug to comfort you. You sighed and hugged her back before giving Bada a call and telling her about your plan. She was a bit hesitant at first but her team's reputation is at stake her. She could lose everything but her team, her friends doesn't deserve that. If someone has to suffer, it should be her.

You met Bada at her apartment. It was the very same apartment that you used to live in with her. You sat on the couch and set up your camera as you waited for Bada to settle down. You wanted to do a live on insta so both of you can come clean regarding about your past. To put an end to the unnecessary rumors and criticism especially towards Bada's team because they're really just casualties from your mess.

"So uhm hello everyone. It's me, Y/N and Bada's here with me. We wanted to address the audio that's now circulating the internet that caused quite a stir among fans and haters alike.." you started and you glanced at Bada who looks like she in the verge of crying.

"Yeah.. To be clear, what happened between me and Y/N is from three years ago. I met her while I was in the states. We became friends as we met on a dance studio and because we were both koreans, we bonded. We've known each other for more than a year before I asked her to be my girlfriend when she graduated from uni. The problems started when I came back here, with her in tow." Bada narrates and you held back a sniffle as you remembered all too well what happened after that. You held her hand in a comforting way as she excused herself for a bit since she couldn't prevent her tears from falling.

"So uhh.. I told her that we needed to pretend that we're just friends because my parents didn't knew at that time that I'm lesbian. I didn't know how to come out to them at that time so I forced my girlfriend to lie to save my own ass. It just kept getting worse, I was abusive. I was toxic. God knows how much I regretted those times of my life, those times in our relationship. I didn't treat her well. I took her for granted, took her love for granted. Whenever she would try to leave, I'd come up with ways to make her come back to me. I wanted her to stay with me but I really didn't make much efforts to make her stay. All I did was continue destroying our relationship, hurt her and make her suffer." Bada confessed and looked at you, her eyes reflected guilt and sadness.

"I know, I had a lot of chance to leave her and to never look back but I couldn't bring myself to do it because I was so in love with her. I thought things would change, things would get better between us if I stayed but sadly, it didn't. So I finally left. It wasn't easy, there were times that I thought about going back and beg her to take me back. I was angry with myself, angry at her and angry at everything because of what happened. But now, as we sat together inside the apartment we once called home together, there were some things that I realized. That I've been angry for too long, that even if I said that I've forgiven her and forgiven myself from that incident, I still haven't. That's why that audio came to be. But believe me, the rest of team Bebe is out of this. They didn't know anything so please, we are begging you to stop harassing them and calling them enabler because they aren't. Please leave them out of this.." you begged and soon, you ended the live feed. You turned to Bada and she pulled you in for a hug. Both of you just stayed like that for quite some time before you pulled away.

You cupped her cheeks and wiped her tears away, you gave her a smile as you rested your forehead against hers. This'll be the last time you're gonna be like this with Bada. You wanted to be finally be able to step forward, have a new beginning with Yeni.

"We may have failed in this lifetime but if given the chance to meet you in the next one, I wouldn't think twice about loving you again. But right now, we both need to move on and let go. For both our sakes.. I love you but it's time that we really finish this. Goodbye, Bada.. It may not have been great but I genuinely loved you." you told her and she hugged you tight, just sobbing in your arms. When she calmed down a bit, she gave you a kiss on the forehead and tried her best to give you a smile.

"If given a chance that I meet you again in my next life, I would treat you better and love you right. It may not have been perfect but I loved you, Y/N. Thank you for loving me so unconditionally despite everything I did to you. Thank you for making me feel the realest love I've ever known." she says and you nodded. You gave her hand a gentle squeeze as you willed yourself to not cry anymore.

"I forgive you, Bada. I forgive you and myself for everything that happened. I hope that we both find peace and happiness even if it's not with each other." was your words before you finally left that apartment. It was bittersweet yet you know it was for the best.

After that live video, things went a bit better for team Bebe and people soon forgot about the issue. You continued to work as Jam Republic's translator and you started dating Yeni as you finally felt like you're ready for this fresh start and it was the best decision you've made. She treated you like the most important person in the world and made sure to give you everything you never experienced with Bada.

Meanwhile, Bada sold the apartment you once shared with her as she also wanted to move on. To let go of the guilt and the memories of you and her. She heard you were dating Yeni and she felt a pang of hurt at the news but she really hopes that Yeni won't make the same mistakes as she did. That hopefully you finally found your happiness in Yeni's love because you deserve all the good things in life.

———;

@lil-elliesgf @efyyylee @hwm1hyun @mikaleialt @bunnywonyo @badaswifey @mrs-grim-reaper @b1ackbunny @wifey-badalee

best wishes to anon because i feel this so hard with my parents. it sucks, i can't agree better.

The thing is, queer people are under constant pressure to Be Good Queers. Some of this comes from the toxic online purity culture spearheaded by often-young queer-identifying people who nonetheless deride the word "queer" itself as Problematic and are largely ignorant of the community's history, even its very recent history. (See the constant wank about what kind of queer media is Good Queer Media and what kind of queer representation is Good Queer Representation; i.e. in their minds often sanitized, sexless, devoid of difficult themes or narratives, and not containing anyone except Good Queer People. Bleh.)

The other half of this comes from straight/heteronormative mainstream society itself, especially now that the LGBTQ+ community is once more under such vicious and sustained attack. Individual queer people feel the need to be, indeed, Good Queer People, to put in the work to change harmful attitudes and beliefs, to try to reduce harm to other community members by challenging bigoted attitudes, feeling like it's "their fault" if they don't do so and therefore they might be indirectly responsible for perpetuating harm... etc. etc. It's exhausting, it's draining, and often leads to these people blaming themselves (or uh, each other) individually, instead of the massive revanchist theocratic/homophobic project currently being driven forward in the US by the nakedly fascist right wing. But it's a trauma response to that ongoing desperate effort to re-eradicate us (which they won't succeed at, obviously, but it's scary and will not automatically just go away without major pushback), and it should be seen as such.

Therefore, it's not the responsibility of every single queer person to actively attempt to change the mind of every single bigot they come across. It's just not. Those things rarely rely on logic or well-reasoned conclusions anyway; it's just something they find Icky because the Ideology has told them so. Yes, they can sometimes get past it and re-evaluate those beliefs and realize their harm, but it's also something that person generally has to do for themselves. They don't care about statistics or reality; they don't see the actual people affected by their beliefs as anything more than abstract Threats to something that they "know" is Right and Correct. Again, this can be overcome, but usually not by anyone except the bigot themselves. And it's hard enough out there for all of us to survive and get through the day. We don't need to be pouring constant emotional energy and labor into dealing with bigots who just don't want to hear it anyway. So.

Basically, this is my blanket permission for anyone dealing with a bigoted friend or family member where they feel they have a responsibility to fix their thinking and can't just walk away: you don't. You can walk away and set that boundary for yourself. If you want, you are even allowed to cut off contact and not remain as the Nice Queer Friend who they can use to justify their beliefs ("I can't be homophobic I have gay friends!" etc), or anything like that. It's hard out there right now in so many ways. Prioritize taking care of yourself and fighting the battles that matter, against the enemies who really matter. And never, ever feel guilty for HOW you're queer or how you interpret that or what you do to safeguard yourself, the end. Love, your cranky old lesbian internet spinster aunt/godmother.

HI!!! Sorry this might get long but I need read your thoughts on this 💕💕💕

Ok so u probably have seen Viv confirming that Vox and Val are at this point in the story not actually dating, right? I already sorta assumed that because Velvette called Valentino Vox’s boytoy kind of implies they’re closer to being fuckbuddies than being a couple, BUT WHAT I CANNOT HELP IS WONDERING IF THEY WILL ACTUALLY START DATING EVENTUALLY!!!

Because Viv did specify “at this point in the story” (tho arguably she was talking more about how the characters currently are and less about their relationship, but still) so it definitely doesn’t close the door for a future possible relationship.

Like I am conflicted because VoxVal is the only toxic relationship I can bring myself to enjoy in media because they’re BOTH just so goddamn awful. They lack this power imbalance and there is no actual victim like how there is with Angel and Val, but for some reason my brain always imagines how nice it would be if Vox and Val actually like fell in love FOR REAL and became more healthy?? Almost?? And thats just so stupid because why do I want that so badly???

Pls tell me your thoughts I’m actually super curious!

OUGHGH NO BECAUSE EXATCLY !!!! since they're just in a fwb-esque relationship, theyre still in a relationship, and i feel like her wanting to progress the characters could mean that goes further than just fwb!! theyre already close, we can see that (i mean fuckers literally made out at the end of ep 8), and i can imagine that gets to a point thats not just sexual anymore

also viv specifying that "at least in this point of the story" and because she says she's excited to get into their relationship, makes me feel like something more is gonna happen between them (WHICH I REALLY HOPE IT DOES)

but for now they're just two fuck buddies with a lesbian bestie thats going Fucking insane over them 99% of the time

ALSO UR SO RIGHT IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH. theyre so awful and toxic but not to each OTHER. they have an almost equal power balance and that could make them a lot healthier than you'd literally ever think they could be . which is SO something i want

Personally I find the chemistry between Luz and Hunter obvious and if the show was created even 5-10 years ago no one would have much of a problem with Hunter and Luz shippers. It would’ve been what everyone expected to be endgame. Sure, I love lumity, it’s a cute sapphic high school romance. But narratively, there’s a case to be made for lunter while lumity is more just to be cute. Plus Luz is bisexual so any argument about erasing her sexuality doesn’t make sense. Plus it’s not like fandom is on the same level as the actual tv show like if a group of people want to imagine Luz and Hunter dating that does absolutely nothing to take away from the canon sapphic romance! I don’t have anywhere I feel like I can express this without getting literalky DOGPILED by Twitter teenagers who think the end all be all of queer liberation is making cartoon teenagers kiss.

I somewhat heard that type of rant that I've been interested to discuss before.. But I think it's better if Hunter has been introduced first than Amity tho. To make Hunter as a Male Lead. Yet the romance plot of TOH didn't go on that route. Because (ugh, another straight couple in Disney)

Unfortunately, everything has been already set by arranging Willow and Hunter as a pair instead Hunter is compatible to be paired with Luz because, Luz is with Amity now and both had feelings for each other before Hunter came. So I can understand what they're trying to defend the sapphic canon ship because THEY NEED LGBTQA+ REP, so if there is a straight couple in their favorite cartoon/show, the fans will gone RIOT and they will forced to make the straight couple to stay friends or platonic then shove it to everyone's throats. But their annoyance of not wanting Luz (who is a CANON BI) had a chance to NON CANONICALLY be together with a GUY who has 10x potential chemistry than Lumity. (I also love Lumity too from enemies to friends to lovers). The thing is, Willow shows to become the heroine for Hunter yet still GoldenLuz/Lunter scenes has more sparks even tho they're jumping to make a side couple (Huntlow) alongside with Raine and Eda (Raeda).

And the biggest and shittiest agenda they've got in the TOH fandom is to make these two characters (Luz and Hunter) as sibling-coded into their dynamic which is a HEADCANON. But FOR THEM IT'S A FACT because of the quarrel, all that banter and starting to helping and protecting each other away from danger/harm. And yet they theorize that when we look at Lunter, it's like there are both young Philip and Caleb.

So the issue of Lunter is because the TOH fandom can easily took it down or banish the ideas and options about Luz and Hunter to become a non-canon ship especially boy x girl ships in general media where the main protagonist is a BISEXUAL/GAY/LESBIAN or part of the LGBT rep. Some of them are a bit oversensitive by the "non-canon" ships might be ruined their canon gay/sapphic ship. Like only you can ship this MC with their same gender and NOTHING ELSE. I tried to keep away from the shipping discourse because the majority wants Lunter to see as siblings, and then they will despise somebody in every fiber of their being who ships Luz and Hunter where they are both BI for each other. Like who are they to have a right to demand a person who just wanna ship without their validation? Toxic TOH fans ain't had a right to accuse somebody because they LIKE a ship that they DON'T like. Yet also the Lunter shippers didn't wish for Lunter to be canon as well. Because they can ship them without a problem canon or not-canon as long as they don't attack nor cause such any harm to others. Yet these antis has so many claims to prove that their ship Lunter is wrong and there's nothing to support of shipping them romantically. So they will non-stop accusing Lunter shippers based on their ship which i migt turned out to become 'problematic' by many.

Luz and her bisexuality is the purest rep where she likes and attracted to guys and girls. Yet when they keep telling to such people that it will erase her sapphic love between her and Amity if Luz is going to be with Hunter in the long run.. That doesn't mean Luz isn't Bisexual anymore. How can these people pushing the hatred towards Lunter where they haven't heard the word "multishipping?" So every shipper has options which good ships to be shipped with this character. They never acknowledged poly ships too so, it's too late to speak up to toxic anti Lunters out there. Stubborn as hell lol. As a Bisexual, people must understand that they cannot ruined their Bisexuality by liking or dating a guy!

New Pinned Post, Yahooo

Fucking hey and welcome to our corner of the internet!

Our name is Juniper and we are a 9 alter plural system!

We mainly made this blog to express ourselves and chat about our special interests. Expect Horny posting and potentially nudes Feel free to dm us! The asks are open regardless of who you are.

Selfies are under #Juniper Selfies , Our alter tags are listed below!

We'll update the pinned as things change or if we have new alters, so check frequently!

No Minors, Have your age in bio or pinned please! Additionally, if you are not comfortable with Men or masc aligned individuals interacting with your blog, do not reblog our nudes and selfies!! We have a couple of masc butches as well as some masc enbies. Our blog is not for you if you are not comfortable with that.

We blog way too much about homestuck, and other funny animated media we are obsessed with. You can also find our writing kicking around here, as well as whatever is on our minds.

For pronouns:

System/collective: She/They 🏳️‍⚧️

The Juniper System!

Joan (She/They)

Soft-Spoken, Bookworm, Mousegirl, Thinks Pavlov could've gone a bit further, Toxic type: Catgirls

Quincy (He/They)

Femboy, Terezi Kinnie, Unethical kink extraordinaire, Wants a pussy the most out of all the alters

Elizabeth (She/Her)

Precise, Tea Snob, cat girl, spoiled bratty princess with a tendency for an ostentatious amount of camp, Horny for robot girls

Elliot (It/It's)

Bubbly, Bouncy, Cute, Certified silly enby Kobold, May or may not actually be a dragon, Wants a horde more than anything else. Gender is a construct and sister I am jailbreaking it

Madeline (She/Her)

Certified Bad butch here to blow some minds. Loud lesbian, gender fuck, punk ass motherfucker. Vriska Serket Fictive, do not be annoying about it.

Alex (It/Pup/Pups/Pupself)

Puppyboygirl, emotional support lesbian, service top (occasionally a dom~~), wants to pick you up so badly; Lender of the girlfriend jackets, needs you to hold her leash while she fucks you

Xander (She/He)

Wolfboygirl, bigender, teddy bear, perpetually tired, likes it when you're a lil mean, switch currently leaning sub, Sadly needs to be responsible. Mom vibes.

Percy (He/They/She)

Squirrelboy, anxious as fuck, definitely the one who got a lot of the artistic brainrot, loves to write, especially overly complicated and stupidly verbose bullshit, the definition of a sad gay theater kid

Castor (She, Fae, He, They, It)

Gay nonbinary space cow, enjoys all things shiny and has a habit of collecting anything foil. Incredibly Pagan, Always excited to discuss tea recommendations or gardening. Loves you very much. ---

In light of recent events: we have a discord!!! Its: Dr.Wuffles . Even if we haven't dmed pr followed back here, shoot us a friend request and tell us your blog name! We'll gladly add you and let you know what platform we moved too. Who knows? Maybe with enough folks we'll make a server.

Be safe yall, we love you🩷💙💚💜🩵💛❤️🧡🤍

WARNING: LONG RANT AND EXPLANATION

I feel like I have to stand up for myself now when I’ve seen the way some of the people in this fandom have been spreading rumors about me on Twitter.

I’m going to take this from the beginning.

//

In November, I was kinda new on Twitter. I remember seeing a tweet in my feed, it said “Let Robin say lesbian in season 5” and to me, who lives in Sweden, the word lesbian isn’t a very “bad” word. It’s actually a very common and normal word here, and we have a bunch of movies and tv-shows when lesbian girls and women simply say: I’m lesbian! So to me, I had NO IDEA that in the US, it’s seen as a “bad” word and that’s why the fans wanted her to verbally say it. I totally get that now, but I wasn’t aware back then. Silly me then made a comment, because a very cute and funny little moment popped up in my head and I felt like: AH I need to write this. It was something along with:

“Or gay, because imagine how cute it would be if Will came out as gay, and Robin would say “I’m gay too”, and then a stunned Dustin (or someone) would say “Okay, so while we’re at it - does anyone else want to come out of the closet?” And then Mike slowly raises his hand.”

I didn’t think much more about it, and the next time I logged into Twitter I had gotten like 50 qrts with: LOADS of death threats, gifs with people murdering people, people calling me lesbophobe, people mocking my grammar, my age, people saying weird things to me about Will etc. I was in such shock, I deleted the tweet right away and had a panic attack. What the hell just happened? How did that made me a lesbophobe? I’m bisexual myself, and I LOVE lesbians. I have also a bunch of wlw ships that I love. But all that shit just because I didn’t know that the word lesbian was very uncommon for americans to say in American media and how they wanted to change that.

Anyways, I deactivated my Twitter because all these horrible rumors about me triggered my suicidal thoughts (I suffer from depression), I made a new one and people figured me out right away so I changed alias and pfp/header but people still figured out it was me.

I blocked every single toxic person I came across, a few months passed and one day I was on Twitter again. This time, it was about an analysis of a scene in Stranger Things. Me and an iconic Byler here on tumblr were analysing the scene when everyone says goodbye at the end of season 3. First, Mike looked uncomfortable af when El kissed him, and later on he looked uncomfortable when she was close to him, hugging and touching and making a forehead touch. In one of the gifs, to ME it looked like the hand movement from El was kinda harsh when they made that forehead touch and I just couldn’t understand how people thought it was cute. It was a personal opinion and just a harmless analysis. Both me and this other person were also saying “Nothing against El though, she’s a kid, but I guess if the roles were reversed - if Mike would be the one to kiss El with her not kissing back, with open eyes, looking uncomfortable and shocked, I guess people would have accused him for SA or something. Not that we did, but we know that it would look a lot more bad if Mike was the one who kissed her and not vice versa simply because of the statistics. WE NEVER ACCUSED EL FOR SA. We both love her and she’s my favorite female character in the show. I just don’t like the SHIP Mlvn and I didn’t get how people thought that scene was cute. It was simply an analysis, nothing more. Not an accusation. Not a hate post. That post had over 200 likes and LOADS of reblogs with people who thought the same. But still only me and my friend were attacked. That also lead to ANOTHER accusation: of me being antisemitic. Why?

In year 2006, I first started my YouTube channel. I was very interested in learning how to edit, so thanks to tutorials I learned by myself how to edit. I was 14 years old when I read Anne Frank’s diary for the first time and I saw so much of myself in her. I also loved the way she described her relationship with Peter in the diary, so I watched “Anne Frank: The Whole Story” from 2001 and thanks to my family I could get that movie on my computer so I could make tribute videos of her since she inspired me so much, to never give up on my dreams and to ALWAYS follow my heart and believe that every person is truly good at heart. I made my own trailer for the movie, because there was none to be found on YouTube. My edits became very popular for being back in 2007, and soon loads of people found them. 90% was so happy I made these tributes, that I let the memory of her and all the people who tragically was murdered by the nazi’s back in the 30/40’s live on. But there was also a bunch of REAL antisemitics who called Anne a bunch of horrible stuff in the comments, people who claimed the holocaust never happened etc and I was defending her and the other victims for dear life. I was so proud of my edits, like I said: I was 14 years old and she was my biggest inspiration. My parents also watched these and they didn’t think they were problematic in any way so of course I trusted them and their moral.

And yes, I also made two tribute edits of her and Peter (I didn’t even knew about the term “shipping” back then) but this person on Twitter said I was making “ship edits” about Anne Frank. I have made all of my old videos private now, mostly because of the bad quality but also because of this person who now made me embarrassed of them instead. I wouldn’t make these edits today. Here’s a glimpse of one of them:

Is this antisemitic in any way?

Anyways, because of this person + a lot of others, this made me and my friend to eventually deactivate our tumblr accounts. I hade SO much going on in my personal life back then too, so this was just too much. They found out things about my family situation and that made me freak out, I was threatening them with the cops just because they were attacking and stalking me and my family on a personal level. They were harassing me on TikTok. On DM. On Twitter. People were leaving me and I felt like shit. Luckily there was a bunch who still were standing by my side through all of this and I am SO grateful for you all. Never forget that, you guys made me come back here.

Also, now when one of my tweets became popular on Twitter, of COURSE these people found me and started spreading these rumors again. I found that out from some of my friends here, sending me ss.

I just can’t fucking believe these people. All because of a silly little tweet which ended up in a total DISASTER.

End of rant. I hope at lease some of you understand.

why did i think i was trans? how did i delude myself? it's complicated.

hiya. i'm a butch lesbian woman who was confused since i was 12 year old ish and thought i was transgender -- mostly nonbinary though with some periods where i thought i was a trans guy -- up until 2022. many factors played in that whole mess that went on in my brain and my life. i'm going to be putting it ic because it's ridiculously long :') but feel free to reply etc. i hope stories like mine can make people feel less alone in these experiences and maybe help pain like mine be prevented. i want trans people to be respected while also doing what is best for society and women's rights too.

anyway. here's my story.

to preface, my feelings about transness in general -- i do love many trans people, i saw all the good parts their community has. i still think i do believe in gender dysphoria and sometimes surgeries/hrt being required to help people be safe and happy, but i think alternate routes need to be explored and we need to push for people to unpack their internalized misogyny and homophobia BEFORE they label themselves. the mix of LGB and TQ has created a lot of infighting. with homosexuality it's behavior-driven, attraction-driven, but with being trans it's an identity thing and a disconnect in the brain, it pushes you to change your body or presentation in some way, or ask others to alter how they naturally would treat you with different terms or pronouns. i think there will be more and more detransition stories like mine, the numbers will grow bigger and bigger unless something urgently happens. bc the trans community does NOT or at least VERY RARELY tells someone to slow down the questioning of their gender identity, they do NOT ever question anything, they don't look for internalized sexism in how people describe their gender, they don't do the work to unpack that stuff in their community. and that's just straight up dangerous.

so yeah. how did i get here? honestly i think part of why i thought i was trans was bc i wanted to fit in and i saw the gender euphoria in other ppl and was like wow i want a feeling like that. and honestly in my personal case it was just me having fun doing drag and lowkey cosplaying as male characters i was obsessed with in media. and my DID added to it too bc i would sometimes dissociate and feel that part of me was male or genderless and that's not bc those parts of me were trans that's bc they are a manifestation of my traumas!!! on top of my eating disorder, dysmorphia and psychosis. i really wish ppl i talked to as a teen on tumblr hadn't jumped to "omg you hate your body? you wish you were a boy under patriarchy? you have suuuch trans vibes bestie you'll make the perfect lil softboy uwu" bc then i was extremely lonely at school and at home and just felt soooo excited at the attention i felt happy to fit in, and honestly even my "dysphoria" after that was that i looked like other trans ppl and i thought they were the coolest, i just felt deep admiration. and then i'd show pics online and ppl would hype me up just bc i identified as trans. so then it snowballed into me feeling terrified to go out bc i was scared i'd get misgendered since i was visibly afab and all my friends were trans and very toxic sjw stereotype so i saw cis people as toxic and untrustworthy and i got to write angsty posts about it that got somewhat popular which i loved bc i'm a writer and i loved to fantasize and imagine a sense of justice alongside other warriors... not unlike how i felt joining into the trans community. when deep down i knew i was being the annoying little sister trying to gain older kids's approval and trailing behind lol. the first trans person i met online was this awesome trans guy who did photography and he was a good bit older and i just wanted to look like him so bad so that he would like me. he ended up ghosting me. but i was still obsessed w him so i looked up trans stuff and fell in head first without even a questioning phase :/ which is 100% on me of course! i was just a very impulsive kid and the trans ppl around me lived in this big colorful world full of identities and drama and unconditional support... but i do wish someone had slowed me down and showed me alternate paths, the path of just being gnc.

i was also like. okay i know i'm queer but idk how, but i want to be in this community bc i'm so lonely (as a baby dyke). so i looked at the most opposite identity ever and gay trans man was the furthest away i could go from myself & my gay attraction & my body & my female masculinity. i was constantly dissociated, constantly. i was living in my yaoi fantasies lol like the "perfect" romance bc it wasn't hetero stuff which had scary power dynamics, and it also wasn't lesbian bc that hit too close to home and i'd start to have panic attacks. so i avoided those, tho sometimes i'd read fanfics w a side lesbian relationship.... but pretended to hate them and not care at all. that was actually part of me accepting my attraction to women, like moving slowly over to lesbian ships in fanfics and finally seeing what it would be like. it felt too good. so then i repressed it again or only showed my lesbian attraction when flirting with men online lol. bc of course there needed to be a voyeur, otherwise it's too real and gross and bad. tfw trauma and internalized lesbophobia.

but yeah anyway me obsessing over yaoi really made me think of boys very fondly -- always boys, never men -- and feel this deep warm happy feeling in my stomach. thinking of two boys together was total equality bc there was no woman involved, so no misogyny or weird "too real" feelings. if it had a woman i'd eventually have a total freakout bc i would keep pretending i was the guy in that scenario, which was BAD bc it made me sound like a DYKE. and boys had an actual personality (bc there very few genuine complex female characters at the time so they were all dumb or mean or bland) and they could do sooo much more than girls could so they were Better somehow. but of course if u say boys are better you're a misogynist, so i wanted to BE a boy so i could talk about how much i loved boys. and i loved boys bc i admired them. i wished i could be a "more male" version of a girl. i wanted to embody maleness so that i could create myself a better girlhood. and not even call it girlhood, so it was even cooler. i didn't want to be like the other girls, who were all loser straight boy crazy bullies. or even if there were cool girls with me, they would just annoy me (bc i was always depressed and exhausted from mental illness and untreated disabilities and it made me irritable). so yeah. boys were it. specifically boys bc men sounded almost triggering from my misogyny trauma. like men are the kind that hurt you. but boys are soft and sweet and special and harmless. they're the right kind of male person. the good ones. and they have such vivid relationships with one another and are such complex beings, unlike girls. and now that i'm a boy i'm gonna be the boy with the best morals and no toxic masculinity whatsoever, just a soft little uwu bean with a soft beautiful very typically girly flat chest, like an afab person before puberty, and no facial hair of course except for maybe a slightly lower voice and less fat (i thought it was good riddance at the time bc i was anorexic lol so that just reinforced it). i had this perfect image of myself. but it was always wavering, so i would never feel fully secure in my gender identity but i also couldn't lose my grip and question that i'm not nonbinary/trans bc then i'll have to accept that i'm an afab lesbian with a boring ass female gender. and i would have to disappoint everybody, and worst of all make them look bad for detransitioning. 

but yeah.... i actually am feeling less bad abt just being a bland woman. like i don't need to be special, i can blend in and people won't hurt me bc i'm a loser like in highschool. normality and domesticity are blissful actually, like i'm Just A Girl and i'm basic af or whatever. but there's other boring, gnc girls, and they're cool but they're also in the highschool situation of being "not the kind of girl that gets asked out and family is kinda broke and not noticeably pretty and has failing grades and untreated disorders so therefore an even bigger loser." so yeah i wanted to be different. to be noticed and thought about, and go against the grain. ie, cishet normative things. usually secretly, but then at some point i came out to my family and they got transphobic but also just said gross things to me that made it so that even if i had been wobbly on my identity i now didn't trust them to talk about it so i just repressed feelings and held onto a trans identity even harder. but then i started thinking of girls a LOT and envying lesbian women. who didn't have to worry about gender stuff, and also got to be gay in a way that... suddenly i noticed could be cool too. i had never allowed myself to notice it. but then i did. and i freaked out bc i was dating someone who wasn't a woman kgdkjgk and it felt transphobic af so i just resolved myself that i MUST be trans.

i was deep in the closet lesbian-wise and my brain tricked itself bc i just wasn't ready to accept being a lesbian. i just wasn't. i've only become ready this year!! and that's around the time that my ex broke up w me (or well we both came to the conclusion that i'm a lesbian so being w them would be wrong, and that it turns out they're only into men/enbies). and then i tried to be nonbinary again bc i wanted to get back w them so bad but then i realized it just wasn't me, and i started getting comfy w gay womanhood. and i came to terms with being a single butch lesbian!!! i'm so much better now that i'm radically accepting myself. it was a LOOONG stressful upsetting journey bc i wasn't being myself. but now i am being myself. and i'm clumsy af and kinda dumb and SUUUUPER inexperienced as both a girl loving girls and also just an adult woman in general. like being an adult woman is HARD and idk what i'm doing and i'm barely scraping by and i'm so behind everyone else. but now i gotta deal with it, actually deal with my issues :/ no more internalized lesbophobia & misogyny!! society often defeminizes girls like me and takes womanhood away from marginalized women but no!!! i'm still a woman. i'm weird but i'm just a weird woman and that's fine. some girls are freaks and weirdos and something different but not the differences that were considered "cool" on leftist tumblr as whichever community is most oppressed and has the most funky flags and ultra-microlabels. and i'm sorry to say, it's embarrassing as hell. but i did fetishize transness. i did think of trans people as unironically cooler than regular non-bigoted close-minded cis people, more interesting, better morality, cooler, smarter, etc. and i wanted to make friends and trans/enby online communities were super vibrant in fandom spaces that i was in. so yup. there it is. i'm a trans faker actually, though i was super out of it during it all, i wasn't doing it consciously. i just was ignoring my true identity, being a butch lesbian woman. it's so sad that i felt the need to repress myself like this, it breaks my own heart to think about it. but i did repress myself. i was soooo cruel to myself and was bigoted towards myself. but never again. never again!!! nope sir!!!

another thing -- i think i also used having a trans/nonbinary identity as a way to have an excuse to go no-contact with my abusive family. i was told they were bigots for being vaguely supportive but confused about trans stuff and struggling with the vocabulary and sudden identity discourse, asking embarrassing questions (that i had no answers for bc i wasn’t actually trans but ofc real trans people would) when i told them i was a boy so i get to use that as a reason not to talk to them. bc otherwise they just would never leave me alone. at least that’s how i rationalized it lol. so yeah. here i am. a complete doofus, with very little bit of stubble coming out of my chin that i have to shave daily. and a slightly transmasc-typical voice. i completely blew it, i repressed being a lesbian soooo deeply even though my family wasn't even that homophobic, all things considered, so i definitely could've lived as my true self. i was just ashamed and stubborn and believed all the things in the media and from homophobes. and thought ppl would be scared of me bc the only other lesbian in school was a creep. idk. it's all so embarrassing. but there ya go.

I find it so funny when people try to dissuade people from shipping same sex pairing by using the "We need more representation of close and intimate male friendship. People need to stop making everything gay" excuse. But the reality is that the friendship who is truly under representated is male/female friendship. Ask anybody if 2 guys can be friend? Of course! Ask if 2 girls can be friend? Obviously! Now ask if a a guy and a girl can be friend? "Well, hum ... not really ... the guy probably want to fuck the girl if she is pretty ... the friendship isnt real." Clearly society lacks representation of healthy male/female friendship. Tv shows, anime etc ... give the MC a whole harem of girls (girls who are supposed to be just friends and he thinks of as only friends at the beginning) pining for him or love the trope of the good guy friend who is waiting for the girl to stop dating assholes and finally notice him. Which also lead to the gay best friend trope bc its the only guy who can be the girl's friend.

Representing male/female friendship not only help against heteronormativity but also misoginy. The idea that women arent fun to be around and are boring perpetuate the thought that women are just good at being fucked, at being wifed etc, and not fun enough to just have a good time doing friends stuff ... So men end up thinking they can only return romantic or lustful feelings toward women.

All that to say that those people clearly do not care about friendships representation. They are just annoyed that people prefer same sex pairings to the holy straight pairings. And "feminist" women who cheer because their queens finally got to get the dicks they wanted are advocating for the wrong thing. Celebrating their faves girls being used as sequel factories or for disney happy ever after the heteronormative and misogynist society craves so much, isnt the big flex they think it is.

Well said anon.

Yes, I agree there is a dearth of healthy and realistic m/f friendships in media and they are surely underrepresented. Lately, more creators are portraying m/f friendships in their films/series etc. But yeah, it's such a stereotypical thing to reduce m/f relationships to romantic or lewd isn't it?

I liked how the character of Amy in Gone Girl talked about the Cool Girl trope. How men wanna see women they wanna hang out with in a certain way and outwardly, it seems this is a fun girl, with a free, liberal and casual devil may care attitude yet still have their personalities revolving around the desires and fetishes of men. I also liked how again, the character of Amy in a film called Chasing Amy portrayed a similar issue, even though the film has its own problems. How men see lesbian women and even though their sexual interests don't intersect, men nevertheless feel righteous about constructing sexual fetishes around it, objectifying lesbians because women, by the simple grace of being women, simply cannot do without men, that their whole existence is nullified if men aren't in it.

A male/female relationship which is platonic and based on equal terms can do so much to give some resolution to this issue.

As for the 'feminist' fans in this fandom, it is interesting to see how Sakura or Hinata stans think cheering their faves is a holy act of feminism while understanding nothing about feminism and female representation in media. It has created such a toxic environment in this fandom, and I am sure others. To a huge extent, I blame the industry because the target group of this genre is so impressionable, it's so easy to misinterpret things, especially with how these women are written. While I get why Kishi did it with these two female characters, given they would be paired up with his two main (and clearly gay, living in a homophobic world) characters for the sake of the sequel and that he writes other female characters much better than theirs, it still is very problematic. Because they were never condemned in the actual story. They were never called out. Never made to face consequences for their actions. And this, THIS, makes their fans so insistent about the apparent goodness of them, while sweeping the rest under the carpet. While it doesn't take a genius to spot their faults, it certainly takes a certain level of understanding of narrative, visual language, themes and understanding of the world.

I can talk about narrative subversion till my lungs give out but unless one shows an inclination to learn how narratives are built, they would keep sticking to their token understanding of concepts such as representation and feminism. Which is such a sad phenomenon. It is almost hurtful how so many fans are so willingly tone deaf and blind, all because of some shallow relationship they wish they had. It's amazing to me how well fortified their delusions are. How strong their willingness to be courted by a hot popular boy. How fine they are with having their fave character revolve around some guy for the most superficial of reasons. This is what their understanding of feminism amounts to. All this nonsense for some cheap self insert.

Even Sasuke stans who are anti SNS. They prefer thinking of Sasuke as some cool, badass, revolutionary man archetype who sleeps around and struts with his massive dick out. And this is how they facilitate their Sasuke*fem reader smut. These Guevara extremists who think homosexuality only exists in western societies, who also consider themselves uber feminists, who think Sasuke casually slept with Karin (because why wouldn't he? He is a man and he has a dick and a willing girl is around, it all makes sense lol), are fine with self inserting into a female character, as long as the badass revolutionary would casually fuck her and then throw her away or let her die without a second thought after his demands have been met. Because yay, feminism. Like irony goes to anti SNS and SS/NH to die a horrible death.

Hinata stans would get triggered at SNS posts or anti NH posts and share the same four Spanish panels of photographs of Naruto with his family because that's their understanding of a happy family. Orchestrated studio pictures. Because gay men living in a het marriage have never been clicked. Because gay men in het marriages don't exist. That's their extent of understanding a relationship. A family picture. It is certainly not a flex.

Just look at how SS apply all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify Sasuke staying away from his family for 12 freaking years. Like you can certainly feel bad for SS stans who even after Gaiden, had the courage to ship this ship. The levels of desperation. And to what ends? What is even their payback? Where is their reward? Kishi certainly isn't giving them any.

You know sometimes I feel shipping is a strong word for what I feel for the story. Because Naruto is just a love story about two boys. If I want them to be together, is it shipping? Shipping is such a fandom term. If that's what the story has led me to, to hope for the two main characters to have a resolution that the entire narrative has painstakingly led me to, is it really shipping? I am just an ordinary reader/audience who wants a good ending to this story. The way the creator wrote it. All I did was to follow what he wanted me to see. Is it then shipping or just a natural conclusion to the story? To want them to be with each other?

As for those fans who say 'we need more representation of men being friends, stop making everything gay' are so fucking silly. Like damn, don't we have enough representation of platonic male bonding? There are entire tropes based on that dynamic. Cop buddies, bro code, band of brothers, big brother mentor, bromantic foil, bros before hoes, brother from another mother and this goes on and on and on. I can count like forty films and twenty books off the top of my head that use these male bonding tropes. Just say you are a homophobic piece of shit. Why circumvent facts? Like we live in a patriarchal, heteronormative world and suddenly stories about men being friends are in jeopardy. Like c'mon, cut the utter bullshit. Lol.

There are only a handful of sane voices in fandoms. Because the rest of them leave and I totally understand why. Hehe. But while you are here, do what you can and then get out. This shit is not good for anyone long term.

Queer rep is not a vacuum

There is so much debate over what is and is not queer rep and it seems to change with each new show. For this I’m going to explore four series that I’m personally a fan of and break down their rep individually ;LOK, SPOP, TOH and Arcane. I will do it this way because Queer rep is not a vacuum.

It is first important to understand the perspective I’m coming at from this: so Yaama, if you don’t know me I’m a queer [Enby and Demi sexual lesbian]and indigenous [Australian] writer; I mainly write about queer people for queer people. I also want to say that I am not bashing any of these series, I love them all.

1. Korrasami

Korra and Asami have a slightly rocky relationship when they first meet but they become fast friends. Both characters are confirmed Bisexual and their relationship is far more obvious from a  queer perspective. They are far less explicit than other shows on this list but that is due to studio censorship.

The ship itself is really sweet. Both women are close and support each other with Korra writing to only Asami at one of the roughest times of her life.

This ship, being the first queer rep in Avatar, followed by Kya being confirmed as a lesbian, gets a lot of flack for being too subtle and not built up enough. As much as I do not like Some writers on the Avatar team, I do genuinely believe they were trying their best here.

The ship itself isn’t problematic and came at a time when there was little rep in mainstream media, let alone kids media. While it has it’s issues, it is some of the first rep kids in my generation saw. Sue me, I’ve got nostalgia.

2.SPOP

This is a contentious one but it cannot be denied that SPOP was full of Queer rep. Spinetossa, catradora, None of the princesses were straight and Double Trouble.

SPOP is unashamed of it’s queer rep and as world where no one is straight, no one is homophobic. This provides escapism that we as queer people sometimes need.

While Catradora has it’s criticisms, it’s a beautiful ship that underpins the narrative  and drives the plot. to call it “toxic” or “abusive” ignores the nuance of the story.

Spinetossa is a solid relationship that provides fluff and comedic relief in the darker episodes. they’re background characters but the nature of their relationship is clear from the start. they’re always together, they wear chokers with each other's colours . From the get go, before we even hear the cute nicknames we know they are a unit. 

Double Trouble , while  stemming from a problematic trope, is a solid character with complexities and comedy gold to spare. While the trope of making nonbinary characters non human is dodgy at best in a show where cis characters are also not human they don’t stand out too much so they can have a pass.

3. TOH

TOH is also unashamedly queer, Eda, Raine, Willow’s dads, Lumity, Edric.I’ve also seen commendations on the Neurodivergent rep  but that’s not my place.

Disney was obviously trying to censor things earlier on but around late season two A Dana stopped giving a shit and good for her. We got Edric having a partner, to quote his sister Emira “ After he accidentally sent  a love poem to THEIR mum”. Love that for him. The first Lumity kiss and them getting together and everything after it.

Willows dads’, minor and cliched as they may be do not come of a tokenistic, a nice change from other shows there the Mc’s best friend’s queer parents is often some of the only rep.

And Raine, a nonbinary person, who while not quite human isn’t an alien/robot/demon/spirit. They’re also a prominent character and their relationship with Eda is just a delight.

Cool Aunt Lilith, AroAce queen and all the flags in season three and it’s only the first episode.

there are some issues with Luz dating her friends ex bully but they address it and smooth it over.

4.Arcane

The biggest thing to come out of Arcane was CatVi/Violyn. I’ve seen some people ship Caitlyn and Jayce but that’s a small group.

Both character’s are confirmed as lesbians.While I love Luz I do find that lesbians do often get left behind in representation or claimed as Bi when they aren’t.

there’s not much else in terms of queer rep for Arcane but it’s very clearly a world where homophobia isn’t an issue.

The CatVi relationship is also important to the story and builds up over the first season. the show isn’t concerned with it but it’s nice to see.

All this to say, Queer rep isn’t a vacum, just because one series shows wholesome queer people and another shows messy,complicated queer love does not make either superior to the other. To put wholesome queer relationships over messy ones perpetuates respectability politics. Both can be good queer rep, both can be bad queer rep.

Sorry to ask but why did you call Adria sexist? What has she done?

I don’t mind the question. I think it’s important to back up my claims so here we go.

If you watch her interviews, she's weirdly consistent about this really odd opinion she has about women.

Here she basically says men and women have different attributes when it comes to strength and toughness (which is sexist). Talking about her character that is known to "talk like a woman, walk like a woman," I don't even know what this means. But it comes off that she thinks there exists a single way a woman should act. Her character being a typical feminine-damsel type also implies her preference for this stereotype.

Reading through her other interviews she has a very narrow idea of what a woman should be, especially when it comes to ‘taking care of men’ and whatnot. I want to be clear it is one thing with having personal preferences to how you want your female characters to be presented, which is totally fine, preference is preference. But why this is problematic and moves past mere preferences is because she is saying one is better than the other. That women should be represented in this certain way.

She's done this not with just her latest character, but a lot of them.

Here she says her character is a "real woman" implying that there is a way to be an authentic woman as opposed to an inferior type. She also implies that her character is a real woman because she takes care of people. I don't feel the need to explain the issue with idealizing this.

It's again, her weird notion there's a difference between "tough" and "strong". Here she adds that women should 'own their femininity,' as if the opposite is what women are experiencing.

Not that this completely applies but it’s common for women who perceive other women to be adopting too ‘boyish’ of traits, to believe they are misogynists and rejecting their own kind. But this generally isn’t true— and the real issue with this is that it’s actually those that show conventionally masculine traits that are typically a minority and/or marginalized across women. Studs, butches, and tomboys helped pave the way and redefined culture for all women. In reality, they can be considered the epitome of feminism – proving that you don’t have to look, think, or act “like a woman” to be a woman.

It's, again, fine she may have had a preference. But to make a whole career where women are meant to be portrayed a certain way is such a red flag for me. Especially when she likens herself to them.

The rest of her snippets, to be very honest, it's just a bad fucking vibe I get from her, man. Like why would you say this?

and this?

"Sexist," one might say, might be a rather strong claim for someone who may, arguably, insist on a certain portrayal for women?

No, it fits because not only is this "preference" already largely overrepresented in media, but there are several ways of being sexist. The actress especially is exhibiting what is known as benevolent sexism, a more socially accepted form of sexism prevalent among both men and women.

Examples of benevolent sexism include:

basing a woman’s value on her role as a mother, wife, or girlfriend

focusing attention and praise on someone’s appearance rather than their other attributes

believing that people should not do things for themselves, such as manage money or drive a car, because of their gender

A lot of these can be done without intentional malice very easily! It could be seen as a complement telling someone "wow! I love your braids and lipstick, you really look like a real woman," or "my character is special and great because she is such a good friend and so loyal to this male character" without adding anything else. These, no matter the intent, are still very stupid and sexist to say.

I guess it's important to note where I am coming from and it is that I fucking hate toxic radfems. I hate how lesbian spaces drown out studs and mascs. I hate terfs and people who gatekeep identities because a certain representation isn't good enough for them. And while this actress's crimes are likely a misdemeanor compared to these awful gatekeepers, I cannot stand the stupidity of any hint of lateral violence. Especially when you’re relatively rich and famous you have a responsibility to not hold people back.

I can see that for others it’s not a big deal, hence “socially acceptable”. But it’s ideas she spouts like these that are poisonous to progress. The point should be that there should be no expectation for women. You can be anything you want because you want to. It's when I see comments to the things she says that make my blood boil like “yea! I love women who aren't so in our face ” (aka I don't want female characters with agency or opinions or as the lead) or “this is what a real woman is, sensual and feminine” (aka sexualized, long hair, tits, and ass).

I’m not above giving her the benefit of the doubt that she’s just kind of dumb. Like she’s not out here with a tradfem agenda or whatever. Outside of sexism she’s just bad at explaining anything. This is the last time I’ll probably criticize this woman because I already blocked her tag and she’s a flop anyway so she's easily ignorable. I really hate hating on women because they’re criticized enough, but there is a standard to be met when it comes to being aware and respectful. I wish I was cherry picking but I found all these interviews in like a 20 minute Google search and that's pretty damn telling of her career. She's also like 30 something years old. It's difficult watching a full adult infantilize her own character or see people believe she's "just naïve" when you can just say that they're being sexist.

So I'm going to spoil the article for you. Kitty x Yuri is ranked #1 and I am so freaking happy about that and I agree. Yes of course I am biased because I am a lesbian and want the lesbian ship to be endgame but also the reasoning the article gave makes sense. I will say that I think that the Min ho x Kitty ship and the yuri x kitty ship are on similar levels but I hate how many people have blown Yuri off by saying she is toxic when Min ho is as well.

It just really is homophobia again at its finest. Kitty currently actually really likes Yuri and feelings can't always be explained. Her and Yuri connected the first time they met. There was chemistry there before the drama started and they figured out who the other was. We get to see a beautiful growth in both of them in just the course of 1 season as they allow themselves to get to know the other better. They were beginning to build trust and a good friendship that are beautiful foundations for a lasting relationship.

We have seen the Min ho and Kitty relationship before. I would claim that it dominates media. Honestly I don't want or need to see another one. I don't want to see another representation of the boy that dislikes the girl in the beginning, treats her like crap, and then suddenly realize he loves her. I don't want to see another representation of a girl discovering the rude guy's personality is just a mask and falling for him. I would love if they became supportive friends for each other but I don't want another straight romance like that. We have so so many of those already. And don't anyone take this the wrong way. Please. I am not shitting on straight people or men. I just want queer people, especially queer women, represented and celebrated more than they have been.

I will be honest and say I just really hope the writers end up having Yuri and Kitty be endgame. It would be a beautiful, complex love story for them to end up together which more shows need to do for queer characters. It would be amazing if Kitty ended up with her and they gave us the queer representation we really fucking need. So many shows with sapphic relationships at the forefront get canceled and I really want this one to be different. Show me growth and challenges. Show me healthy resolutions and perseverance of a relationship between two young women.

We need this representation and I am manifesting, praying, hoping that they do that.

you are so right. the most popular m/m ships are just... so uninteresting. tbf a few of the popular f/f i find to be just as baffling but i try not to be a hater because they still have such a small fraction the dudes' popularity.

okay yes most popular f/f also sucks ass let’s talk about THAT. most of the time it’s feminine (not femme) white women bumping lips on a cw show or girlies from a 2 dimensional children’s cartoon and the basic golden retriever dykes eat that shit up but i cannot even blame them because we basically have no good options. and to be clear i love bubbline, shoot, korrasami, sashanne, like i am not immune to these aforementioned examples (root and shaw are cbs not cw and at doesn’t actually count as a 2d children’s cartoon but like. potato potahto lmao). i haven’t read those locked tomb books because it doesn’t rly seem like my thing, but if there are in fact insane butches in that then i do totally understand why those books have so many tumblr lesbians in a chokehold, bc we urgently need more insane butches populating our fictional ecosystem. i think ppl who desperately try to generate f/f content from thin air out of some misguided feminist desire to center female characters in fandom are kinda pathetic (just engage with more women-centered media first of all) but the desire (from dykes) to see more dykes is always noble. like ppl will talk abt “toxic yuri” or whatever but they’re not even talking about women half the time they’re talking about a straight couple or a gay (dude) couple and it’s like give me a fucking break. so i do understand the impetus. thankfully revolutionary girl utena exists and every day people make more and more gorgeoust amvs of anthy, utena, juri, nanami, shiori, wakaba, and even kozue, sometimes even set to mitski songs if we’re lucky.