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iwritenarrativesandstuff · 1 year

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Chapter 105.5 Thoughts: Control, Manipulation and Partnership

Or, how Chuuya is actually the most qualified character to land a victory over Dostoevsky.

I just want to preface this with: I think Chuuya has woken from the brainwashing. We can't see his eyes, he's holding his hat again, and look at the progression of his face and expression from the last few chapters with him (these are in order btw from left to right).

I'm not completely sure how he did this, but I chalk a lot of it up to sheer stubborn determination on Chuuya's part, mostly because it's funny and he was clearly fighting back before Dazai's speech. However, I find it likely the speech did contain some kind of code - others have pointed out how "Goodbye!" might be a reference to the original author's last unfinished book and we know skk's codenames for things generally are based off their real counterparts' works so, maybe he'd already broken out of it, maybe there was something in there that gave him the final push - who knows at this point honestly? Either way, it means Chuuya had the capacity to break out of the vampire curse on his own and that's incredibly funny to me for many reasons but mostly:

Fyodor: "Bold of you to assume Chuuya's ability can't overcome flooding."

Dazai: "Bold of you to assume Chuuya's personality can't overcome brainwashing."

But really, this highlights something interesting here, both in what Chuuya's role is ultimately intended to be in this arc, and in the way Fyodor and Dazai manipulate and value others in very different ways.

I've said it before but it bears repeating: we already know that Fyodor is an excellent long-term planner, while Dazai is effectively able to counter him because Dazai shifts into thinking like his opponent. They're foil characters for a reason; they're both highly intelligent, manipulative, and willing to play the long game for the sake of winning against their opponent.

Thing is, I also stand by the idea that personality-wise, they're not similar at all - and that has serious implications for the people they are connected with. The build-up to the prison escape arc really highlights this. Some examples:

Chapter 46: Fyodor believes that all people are sinful and foolish and that his goal is to remove sin. Dazai believes that all people are sinful and foolish but asks what's so wrong with that.

Chapter 64: They decide to have a "super-happy chit-chat" about their problems. Dazai's solution to Fyodor's issue with his lazy subordinates is to get them to think lazing around is a bad thing so they will put in effort of their own. Fyodor's solution to Dazai being unable to woo the waitress is to isolate her from her job, house and family so that she can only rely on Dazai.

Chapter 77: Fyodor believes god is perfection and harmony, and thus that the people capable of change are the superior ones with most control. Dazai believes god is the accidental and illogical and believes it is the ordinary people who fight and live in that uncertainty who create the greatest change.

So, what's happening here? Fyodor's manipulation is shown to be very exacting and direct. He leaves no room for error and regards people on a hierarchy - God above all, himself as a servant of God's will, and the sinful and foolish humans he has little regard for. Dazai's manipulation involves manipulation of the situation, and is often indirect. It involves people coming to the conclusion he intends for them to on their own. And from his later dialogue with Sigma, we see he doesn't regard the world in that same kind of hierarchy.

Now, look at the way Fyodor picks an item and Dazai picks a person when starting the game. Look at the way Fyodor refers to Chuuya respectfully but brainwashes him entirely and mocks Dazai for not being worthy of "using" his ability. Look at the way Dazai is a complete ass to Chuuya but ultimately lets him make his own choices (begging people to take note of that moment in Stormbringer where Dazai cuts himself off to correct his referring to Corruption as Arahabaki's true power to Chuuya's true power).

So, the actual strength Dazai has over Dostoevsky then, is not really his strength at all, it's the strength of others and their choice and willpower to act in the way they believe is best. It's the only means of getting a leg up on Dostoevsky, otherwise they will continue to go around and around in circles forever.

And Chuuya is the best candidate for finally throwing Fyodor off his game.

Firstly, let's just establish something: no matter how mad he is at Dazai, he's not going to side with Fyodor, not willingly. Fyodor threatened the Mafia in the Cannibalism arc by attacking Mori, first of all. I doubt he's forgiven him for that. Secondly, Fyodor embodies everything Chuuya can't stand about Dazai, at the very least, younger Dazai - the manipulation, the lack of consideration and connection with others, the callousness and lack of regard for life.

Well, perhaps he's not quite as irritating. +1 point for Dostoevsky I guess?

But lastly, it is more advantageous for Chuuya at this point to help fight against Fyodor, especially since most of the Mafia has been vampirized by his organization. Helping the Agency stop the terrorist plot will help the Mafia by extension by undoing that. And we know from Stormbringer that no matter how much Chuuya is personally hurt, he considers taking out the threat to his people a higher priority. Always.

(You could make the argument that he was told whatever Teruko told Atsushi and decided to join, but not only do I find this wildly out of character, but if that was the case then there would've been no reason to brainwash him.)

That said, I don't think this was preemptive "Dazai's master plan #3057", and in fact, I stand by the idea that Dazai had no idea Chuuya was going to be in the prison. It is very, very important to me that for the rest of this arc, no matter what Chuuya does, that his actions are his own. Not Fyodor's, not Dazai's, but his. And not just because I hate that he's being controlled right now and that freedom of choice has always been important for Chuuya.

But because it makes narrative sense.

The vampires are a bit silly, yes, but they represent the way Fyodor and Fukuchi think - humanity will commit atrocities. They cannot be trusted to make their own decisions. They want to make a world that is free by... mind-controlling people so their plans work without a hitch. In short, they choose, on behalf of others, to sacrifice human autonomy for peace. So, if we are going to turn this arc around, we need to have characters breaking out of that control and thinking for themselves, in spite of the uncertainty of the outcome.

We already see this with Atsushi in the last chapter! He finally takes initiative and makes that choice to leave the room when he doesn't exactly know what the right thing to do is. And this is also why I don't think Teruko is wholly convinced by the DoA either - she lets him go. She gives him the freedom to choose what he does with that information.

Another one of the focus characters here is Sigma. Sigma is a guy who has no past, whose humanity is questioned, who keeps being used by organizations for his valuable ability, who has no home but desperately wants one... oh wait. Remind you of anyone's younger self? This could go one of two ways: Chuuya fails to assert his autonomy, leaving Sigma to learn from that failure, or, Chuuya succeeds in asserting his autonomy, leaving Sigma to learn from his success.

I think it, by necessity, has to be the latter. Sigma's at a tipping point right now, and I think seeing someone try to assert their freedom only to fail would damage him greatly. And I think it's a waste of Chuuya's character honestly.

Chuuya needs to assert his autonomy in this arc. Not just for thematic reasons but because I can think of no one else who can effectively break the "super-genius stalemate".

I keep hearing "Dazai knows Chuuya" in response to Fyodor calling their bond shallow, and that is absolutely true! But Chuuya also knows Dazai. Incredibly well. Odasaku knew Dazai's soul, but Chuuya knows Dazai's mind, knows his strategies and ways of thinking without even needing words. What's more, Chuuya has thrown off Dazai before and done what he didn't expect him to.

Which is nifty, because Dazai and Fyodor think a lot alike. Chuuya is in a unique position to thwart Dostoevsky because he may actually be able to predict him to a degree. Chuuya can absolutely land a victory against him, and it's excellent because it would be completely unexpected to Fyodor, who apparently thinks Chuuya's strength lies only in what his ability has to offer and not much else.

But listen. This also can't be skk's plan. I need Chuuya to sideline both of them. Both for the sweet, sweet catharsis of putting those two idiot geniuses in their places and also because I need Dazai to have screwed up. He wasn't wrong about people making their own choices in uncertainty. People need to assert their autonomy to create change. Dazai can't be wrong in this regard.

But with going ahead with the trap to drown Fyodor despite also having to drown Chuuya when he promised not to let him get killed... this needs to have been a mistake, otherwise the value of Dazai's emotional speech to him is diminished.

I want Dazai to try to laugh it off. I want him to say he always knew Chuuya would escape and then for Chuuya to deck him because "no, the fuck you didn't".

I really think Dazai hoped Chuuya would make it. Do remember that Chuuya was one of the first reasons young Dazai decided to try giving life a chance. The fact that he flashbacked to all his key memories with Chuuya says a lot. But his survival was no guarantee and it seemed very unlikely.

So, Chuuya is faced with the fact that Dazai nearly sacrificed him to kill Dostoevsky and save his new Agency friends.

And I hope he finally gets mad. I hope he finally expresses hurt on his own behalf for once. I hope they are forced to break their status quo that they have carefully maintained by not talking about anything ever. I hope they are pushed to uncomfortable places and that it is Chuuya who finally spurs this development.

Let Chuuya break the stalemate between Dazai and Dostoevsky. Let him shatter the status quo that him and Dazai have kept going for year after year.

Autonomous action in the face of uncertainty is necessary for change.

#am i assigning too much narrative importance in the main manga to chuuya? perhaps #will i stop? no #unfortunately this meta doesn't include gogol which is an oversight because he absolutely has to play a role as well #i'm just not quite sure what yet. same as chuuya i suppose #either gogol asserts his autonomy or he... fails. yeah. either he gets dostoevsky killed or... he fails.#i just don't know where he fits in with everyone else is the thing #listen though. it is significant that gogol decided not to play his dying role in the doa's plan though.#gogol is the free spirit of the doa and yet he's closer to sigma and bram in terms of how he is more controlled than controller #anyways sorry this is so long. just my two cents on the matter #bsd #bsd spoilers #bsd chapter 105.5 #bsd chuuya #bsd fyodor #bsd dazai #bsd sigma #bsd meta #i don't even know if this makes sense anymore. here.#storyrambles

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lover-of-mine · 5 months

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Our love's misaligned...

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klanced · 5 months

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when adam met 11yo keith he immediately knew that keith was gay and was like i have GOT to support this kid!! (runs into traffic) meanwhile shiro spent years operating under the assumption that keith had like a gender thing going on

#do you see my vision #voltron #shiro #keith #adashi #people are like 'haha voltron renaissance!! klance 4ever!!' meanwhile i'm still stuck in the adashi mines #shiro wasn't entirely wrong but adam was more right.#i like to imagine young adult adam and shiro are going to bed and adam is like 'we need to talk about keith.'#shiro (immediately): don't listen to iverson that guy has it out for keith.#adam: no that's- it's really cute how you always immediately have keith's back. but no i'm talking about supporting keith as he grows up #adam: because i think keith is like Us. if you get my meaning.#shiro: huh.. (oh!! Gender.) i wasn't sure if i should bring it up but yeah i've noticed a couple things.. what's our game plan?#adam: (giving a heartfelt speech about making sure keith always feels loved and cherished)#shiro: (earnestly listens but also in the back of his mind he's planning on how to casually introduce gender-neutral pronouns to keith)#adam is waiting with bated breath for keith to bring a boy home meanwhile shiro is like geez this egg is taking a while to crack...#shitpost #wait this post makes more sense if you buy into my other vision which is that shiro is transgender. always assume im writing trans shiro.

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backpackingspace · 2 months

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Anyway I love hua cheng has """kidnapped"""" xie lian fics. It's about the chaos. The shenanigans! The duality of the heavenly Court freaking out! Cut to hualian having a cute date! Jun wu mentally trying to rearrange his plans realistically sending xie lian to investigate should have disrupted their relationship why are they now getting married??? Xie lian popping in to the heavenly group chat going I'm FINE!!! Please please stop sending people to rescue me. Yes I've definitely been kidnapped let it go!!

#Tgcf #heaven official's blessing #Fanfics #hualian #Xie lian #Hua cheng #Jun wu #Hua cheng “kidnaps” xie lian #Xie lian : injured and lying about it #Hua cheng: gege actually I changed my mind you're no longer an honored guest you're now my prisoner so you must do what I say #Hua cheng: I'm an evil ghost king after all I would hate for things to escalate if you don't listen #Hua cheng: now take your goddamn medicine and let me change your bandages and brush your hair #Jun wu: ling wen have we tried plan 57 yet?? It's really cramping my style and triggering me that xie lian has so many people in his life #If anyone has any recs pls pls send them my way

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starcurtain · 4 months

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Outing myself as the dead-opposite of a Genshin rarepair lover to say that my favorite brand of Zhongli/Childe is definitely:

Grandpa's Mid-Life Crisis Retirement Checklist:

✅️ Flawless human disguise (no one suspects a n y t h i n g)

✅️ Part-time side hustle

✅️ Self-planned funeral (the flowers were fire 👌)

✅️ Friends know I'm not actually dead

✅️ Liyue flourishing

✅️✅️✅️ Russian mail order husband

#genshin impact #genshin impact shitpost #zhongli #childe #tartaglia #zhongchi #tartali #listen I don't understand how the fandom couldn't settle on #chili #as the ship name #PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY #(but I'm right though).#Other adepti's retirement plans:#meditation #inventing #cloud gazing #contemplation of nature's virtues #Rex Lapis' retirement plan:#Cause the biggest fucking commotion #throw myself the sickest retirement party #find the one (1) boy in Liyue Cloud Retainer would NOT approve of #whirlwind romance with a sexy young abyss-corrupted enemy of the state #Neuvillette voice: He blew up our courtroom???#Zhongli voice: *happy sigh* That rascal.#OKAY BUT BEING SERIOUS #What I actually mean is that I love Zhongli/Childe fics and art #that recognize that Zhongli had lost his sense of purpose #and begun to question whether his existence was even needed anymore #and Childe is so full of the will to live no matter what #to keep growing and improving just for the wild joy and sake of existence itself

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canyoureallycallthisablog · 1 month

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Oh yes my favorite duo, 'AAWEHEHEGWGWV 🥺🥺' and 'I'm barely tolerating your ass'

#Deltarune #utdr #ralsei #kris dreemurr #i don't actually believe in the 'Ralsei is actually in love with the player' i just think the idea is funny #in tea theory terms: kris getting 60+ health probably means they like ralsei enough considering the circumstances #but them barely tolerating him because he's putting an annoying uwu vibe to please the player is a way funnier #people in the fandom worrying over Ralsei being all suspicious but I'm here to show you that's actually a good thing #imagine how unbelievable funny it would be if his cute face just dropped the second the player isn't looking #and ralsei tries to explain to kris that they should also act a bit more put together for the sake of their plan #'kris professionals have standards' and proceeds to do his dumb looking down blushy face #anyway thanks for listening to my insane ramblings about sus ralsei

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royalarchivist · 2 days

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Quackity: Excuse me, I've never seen a bird fly. Can any of you please show me what a bird flying looks like?

I wasn't planning on watching Rust, but seeing Quackity BS his way into people's good graces and get treated like a king despite being butt-ass naked for over an hour sure is something else.

#Quackity #Rust #I wasn't planning on clipping anything but I literally haven't laughed that hard in frickin years #I don't think this is as funny if you haven't seen him be absolutely cringefail for the last hour and a half but whatever #May 25 2024 #(Don't worry I'm still gonna be posting old QSM/P clips I'm just busy on the weekends)#I've been doing a lot of cooking and been listening to this in the background #Genuinely I haven't laughed that hard in ages I had to lean on my frickin desk #full on hand slapping the table #it's just so stupid and this moment after an hour and a half of buildup just killed me #I don't know the names of these other two people though D:

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fortes-fortuna-iogurtum · 1 year

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I've been reading Exodus lately and I've just gotten to the portions where God gives the first commands to the people via Moses (twice), and then goes on to give detailed instructions about the tabernacle and how it should be built, and I'm just... we think art is unimportant?? we think things only mean as much as their functionality?? we so easily fall into the trap of believing that beauty means nothing, that it's cheap and only worth whatever mindless distraction it brings, that it's barely more than a cheap sensual thrill, that buildings should just be practical and plain and cheap, that everything should be functional but ultimately disposable, that paintings and dresses and mugs and curtains and carpets are just pretty but have no real value, that beauty is fleeting and vain and therefore shouldn't be thought about too much, if even looked for at all... we fall into these traps so easily, and we forget that there are chapters upon chapters of painstakingly detailed plans to build one portable worship tent, and those plans have been handed down through thousands of years of human history, because beauty and art and skill in craft is important

#I have to go get ready for work now but I will come back to this #and don't even get me started on the parts about God calling specific craftsmen *by name*#he called them!! by name!!! he said 'this man is good at his job. he creates beautiful work. he will build my temple and make it beautiful'#and even more--God inspired him!!!! it was a calling of GOD for him to create beautiful carvings and tapestries and candlesticks!!!#look even if you're not jewish or christian or religious at all you have GOT to see what it means that all these incredibly detailed plans #for building this tent-temple are extremely important #because even if you don't believe in God and don't think that this is all significant bc he personally gave the instructions #and then helped preserve this record of them so we could still read them today #you do have to see how important they were to the people of that time who first wrote them down #and the extreme care that was taken to record all of those detail #AND the fact that it's been preserved for so long and we can still read all the care that was put into creating this incredible piece #of artwork and worship they made #gurt says stuff #I just. gahhfhhfj. I'm feeling emotional about chapters of the Bible that I can't even fully force myself to pay attention to #bc there's so MUCH and I'm bad at visualizing this stuff and I tend to zone out while listening to it #but the fact that it IS that much!!! that there SO MUCH DETAIL and it goes on for SO LONG that I even struggle to pay attention!!!#that this was THAT IMPORTANT to the people who wrote it and to God!!! as an artist and someone who has always cared about art #this means so much to me ok #christianity #bible verse #bible thoughts #exodus #art #theology

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unbidden-yidden · 7 months

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Genuine question for those of you who say that you want the dissolution of all states. What do you envision in place of states in terms of:

Logistics (i.e. making sure every area has the basic resources it needs in order to function and people not die for lack of water, food, fuel, medical supplies, etc.) Like not assigning these things necessarily but literally just getting them to various far-flung places.

Security (how do you prevent people from outside the area coming in and taking everything including resources, land, people, etc.) How do you prevent authoritarian groups coming in and occupying your formerly peaceful, non-hierarchical society?

Supporting people outside of affinity networks or within rigid social systems (a lot of disabled people, queer people, and other people on the social, familial, and religious outs are gonna die without some kind of appropriate systems in place to meet these needs.)

Addressing major environmental challenges that require cooperation over vast areas of land, if not global cooperation.

Rule of law, especially when it comes to human rights, freedom of movement, freedom of religion/culture, dispute resolution between governing bodies of whatever variety that doesn't involve war, etc. but also just like, basic laws governing interpersonal relationships (preventing rape, murder, theft, etc. and addressing the aftermath of those things in a humane, just way.)

Peaceful transition from states to whatever it is you imagine taking their place, without hemorrhaging lives from the most vulnerable populations.

And like, there's more that I'm sure I'd have questions about too, but these concerns are so basic that I just cannot continue the conversation without knowing what the plan is for these essential tenets of an organized society.

Don't get me wrong: I don't love states and wish we had a better system too. I am also painfully aware that states are failing many if not most of these all the time. However, what I would need to know is how what you are proposing is better than trying to improve what currently exists and isn't going to come at the cost of catastrophic loss of human life, human cultures, animal life, and land destruction. And not in a pie-in-the-sky way, a realpolitik way.

#yes this question was originally prompted by the ''I'm not [just] anti-Israel‚ I'm against all states everywhere'' leftists #but I'm not talking about that specific conflict in this post #I am genuinely asking what you envision in place of all states everywhere in the world and how we get there #it's not enough to just say ''states bad''#that's a long-range criticism that's valid but unactionable without a real plan that doesn't get people killed #if your answer is ''just dissolve [X]'' and you don't have a Plan B?#you are a deeply unserious person and I will be giving your geopolitical opinions the corresponding weight #if your answer is ''the future we work towards should have in mind the replacement of states with a different system but #for now we will try to improve things in [X] [Y] and [Z] ways'' then sure #I'm listening #if you have a plan for an immediate overhaul I'm deeply skeptical but listening

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antianakin · 5 months

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There is exactly one criticism that I agree with my, very anti-Jedi, cousin on and that's the Jedi were TERRIBLE Generals. Generals may TRY to make sure their men mostly come back. But useless sacrifices are not only acceptable, but expected, the men are mostly expandable in war. The Jedi did not consider sacrifices like that acceptable or expected. Sure it did happen. It was WAR. But they tried their best to make sure it DIDN'T. The Jedi were terrible Generals. But they were the teachers and Leaders the CLONES NEEDED.

I'm not sure I'd ENTIRELY agree with that. I think I'd be willing to agree that the Jedi were perhaps less CONVENTIONAL Generals, and they definitely do seem to at least TRY to place the lives of their men above just tossing them away for an easy victory, but you can just as easily claim that keeping the men alive to keep fighting is a good strategy in and of itself.

The biggest piece of evidence I'd point to that the Jedi were actually perfectly good Generals is the Citadel arc and Tarkin's criticisms. The one real criticism he makes of the Jedi as military leaders is that they're occasionally too soft and will abandon a mission if it looks impossible to win without near total casualties (on either side). But he's generally fairly positive about the Jedi and if they were truly awful at their jobs, I don't think TARKIN of all people would hold back on saying so, even to the Jedi's faces.

And we DO see the Jedi willing to make sacrifices and accepting that this is a necessary part of war. The Citadel arc is, again, a perfectly good example of this. Obi-Wan and Anakin go in with like 3-4 men each I think and they come back with a grand total of 3 (Rex, Cody, and Fives). A LOT of clones die on this mission that they all KNEW was basically a suicide mission because the Jedi themselves decided that getting the information about the hyperspace lanes was vital enough to the war that it was worth losing multiple lives over (including their own).

So it's not that the Jedi don't understand that sacrifices are necessary in war or even that they avoid it entirely, they just avoid what they see as UNNECESSARY sacrifice for what might amount to a fairly minor victory. Keeping more of their men alive might, in the long run, be a better strategic choice than losing all of them on one campaign, especially if it's over like one uninhabited moon or something like that. There's nothing to say that the losses the Jedi deem acceptable are things that would've changed the entire tide of the war had they chosen to push forward instead.

The other good evidence that the Jedi acting this way would've been the WORSE choice is the Umbara arc. We are told and then see that Krell IS the kind of General who is willing to lose a lot of clones in order to gain victories in battle, and the clones do recognize that he has a lot of victories under his belt. But never once do they discuss whether those victories really MEANT anything or had a large impact on the war effort. It certainly never seems that the Republic is majorly pushing back the Separatists because of Krell's victories, nobody ever mentions that Krell gained them a major advantage with those victories or took out anyone of any consequence on the Separatist side with his strategies. And by the time he gets to Umbara, he's explicitly using this strategy to WEAKEN the Republic side and cause a loss. Several of his strategies WOULD'VE meant the Republic lost on Umbara and it's only the clones utilizing different strategies that put fewer of them at risk that they actually end up continuing to HAVE victories at all.

I'll also point out that the Jedi continuously getting their men killed en masse would've bankrupted the Republic a LOT earlier because they'd have to be paying for more clones a LOT more often than they did in canon and I can't imagine anyone would've considered that a particularly sound strategy and at some point I'm sure the Senate would've felt obligated to put a stop to it anyway and insisted on strategies that kept more clones alive for longer. So I'm not sure it's fair to claim the Jedi were utilizing BAD strategy by not just exclusively using tactics that meant most of their men were killed for every single victory.

So the ONLY criticism we EVER see of the Jedi's ability as military leaders is Tarkin claiming they're "too soft" and Tarkin is the kind of person who would likely say that until the Jedi started carpet bombing entire Separatist planets. Would it give them a victory? Yeah, sure, maybe, but that's the exact same strategy the Separatists are using and look how well that works out for THEM. Everything else we ever see seems to showcase that the Jedi are in fact perfectly good Generals, not just in that they're kind to the clones and are unwilling to carpet bomb Separatist planets, but also because they're just... good at this. They CAN be strategic, they CAN run wars if they want to. And I think that's the whole point of the Jedi in some ways is that yes, they CAN make war when they need to, they just actively choose NOT TO every time they can. THIS is why Qui-Gon tells Padme that he and Obi-Wan are there to protect her but that they can't win this war for her and they end up going off to fight off a Sith while Padme has to actually win the war with her own people and the Gungans instead. The Jedi don't WANT to be in the position of doing nothing but fighting, but they're absolutely capable of this kind of work.

That's the tragedy of the war in some ways, the Jedi ARE good at this no matter how much they wish they weren't sometimes. But being good at it means they can actually protect the Republic, their own men, and even the Separatist civilians better, so they're not going to just sit there and do things that will screw over a bunch of people. Yes, they're going to fight the war in such a way that they reduce casualties as much as possible, but reducing casualties also requires doing enough to not LOSE the damn war, too. It's a delicate balance they're trying to hold on to and I'd argue they manage it better than anybody else would've ever done in their position.

#star wars #jedi #pro jedi #clones #clone troopers #the clone wars #listen i am not a strategist #i CERTAINLY am not a military strategist #but just looking at what we're shown and told by tcw and the films i think it's fairly the clear the jedi were GOOD at being generals #regardless of whether they LIKED that or not #yes they wanted to protect the clones but they weren't idiots and they clearly weren't causing the republic to lose all the time either #there's a difference between strategically retreating from battles that can only be won by massive casualties with little to no reward #and prioritizing saving the clones OVER necessary victories in the war #the jedi are doing the former to my perspective #if they weren't i think the republic would've been a lot worse off just in general #unless we're about to start claiming that the clones and/or civilian officers were doing all of the real work instead of the jedi #which i personally would not #esp since we see the jedi sitting there going over battle plans and coming up with their own strategies quite often #tarkin's opinion on the matter is suspect - don't take his word for it when he says the jedi are too soft

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