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#have the start a poly relationship

crimeronan · 11 months

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i've seen a couple people in the notes of this very good post about fictional polyamory by @thebibliosphere say things along the lines of "oh, i've been doing it wrong :(" or "how do i know if i did this right??" or "i should probably give up and start over, i wrote this badly :(" and. no!!!!

(i AM seeing far MORE people say "oh, this clarified and helped me so much, i think i know how to fix issues i've been having with my own story" which. YES!!!!)

listen. if you're a monogamous person who's writing a polyamorous relationship, and you've been focusing mainly on The Triad and All Three Together All The Time as the endgame, that's literally fine. that's a perfectly acceptable and strong starting point for your plotting, imo. you do not need to give up on a story that you've started like this.

but the things discussed in the post Can and Should improve your execution!

you can keep the same plot beats and overall relationship arc 100%. polyamorous relationships are infinite in their formations, every one is unique. "basically a monogamous romance but with three people" Does exist, as a relationship type. you're not hashtag Misrepresenting (TM) poly people with it

BUT i do think it will help to read up on some poly people talking about how their relationships Differ from monogamous ones.

so i have outlined some basic important concepts about polyamory.

MORE IMPORTANTLY though, i've broken down some questions that you can answer throughout the writing process to strengthen your individual dyad relationships, your individual characterization, & your characters' individual feelings/experiences. this is a writing resource have fun

future kitkat butting in to say i spent over two hours writing this and it definitely needs a readmore. it is also NOT comprehensive. but everything should be pretty simple to follow! feel free to reblog if you find it helpful yourself or just want to reward me for how gotdan long this took KSLDKFJKDL.

i've grabbed quick links for a couple of the important concepts, some have SEO pitches in them but the info largely seems to be good. (if i missed anything Egregiously Gross on these sites i should be able to update the links with better ones later, since they're under the readmore.)

sidenote: this is NOT meant to be overwhelming, despite the length. if you can't read all of this, that's Okay. you do not need to give up on your writing.

here we go:

compersion!

compersion is a BIG thing in a lot of polyamorous relationships. it's joy derived from seeing two (or more) of your partners happy together, or joy derived from seeing your partner happy with someone else.

compersion is really important as a concept because it highlights that every individual relationship within a polycule is different -- and that that's a GOOD thing. it's sort of the inverse of jealousy.

by the "inverse of jealousy," i mean that instead of feeling left out and upset and possessive, you feel happy/joyous/content.

i can use personal experience as an example: it's a Relief for me when my partners receive joy/support/sex/romance/etc that i can't (or prefer not to) give them. and i love seeing my partners make each other laugh and be silly together.

it's 100% okay for a poly triad not to be together 100% of the time, it doesn't mean that the third member is being left out or not treated equally when two people do things alone together.

(i have individual dates with my partners all the time! PLUS larger 3-and-4-person date nights.)

if the third member DOES feel jealous or left out, then the polycule can have a conversation to figure out what needs/wants aren't being met, and solve that. this happens semi-regularly in my polycule, as it will happen in any relationship (including monogamous ones)! it's just part of being an adult, sometimes you have to talk about feelings.

metamours!

a metamour is someone who is dating your partner, but ISN'T dating you. this may not be relevant for people writing closed three-person romantic sexual triads, but it's a super helpful term to know.

the linked article also lists different types of metamour relationships with some fun phrasing i hadn't heard before. the tl;dr is: sometimes you'll be domestic cohabitation friends, sometimes you'll be buddies with your own friendship, sometimes you might not interact much outside of parties, every relationship is different.

there's no one-size-fits-all requirement for metamour relationships. sometimes polyamorous people will end up dating their metamour after a while (has happened to me), sometimes polyamorous people will break up with one partner for normal life reasons, but remain friendly metamours.

the goal of polyamory is NOT for EVERYONE to fall in love. it is 100% okay if this happens in your story, it happens in real life too! but it is also 100% okay for characters to be metamours without ever becoming "more than friends."

(sidenote: try to kill any internalized "more than" that you have when it comes to friendship. friends are just as important and special and vital as partners.)

of course there are a million ways for messiness to occur with metamours within a complex polycule, exactly like with close-knit platonic friend groups. however this post is not about that! there's enough "here's how polyamory can go wrong" stuff out there already, so i'm focusing on the positives here :)

open versus closed polyamorous relationships!

i'm struggling to find an online article that reflects my experience without directly contradicting at least SOME stuff. so i'll give a quick rundown

google has a bunch of conflicting definitions of open relationships and whether open relationships are different from polyamory. the general consensus seems to be that an open relationship prioritizes one partnership (often a marriage), but that each partner can have extraneous flings or long-term commitments (most often sexual in nature).

this is not typically how i use the term wrt polyamory. the poly concept is pretty simple. a closed polyamorous relationship is one with boundaries like a monogamous one. there are multiple partners in the polycule, but they are not interested in having anybody new join said polycule.

an open polyamorous relationship tends to be more flexible -- it just means that IF someone in the polycule develops mutual feelings for a new person, it's fine for them to become part of said polycule if they want to! the relationship/person is open to newcomers.

some groups will need to negotiate this all together, others will just go "haha, you kids have fun." just depends on the individuals!

with open AND closed polyamorous relationships, the most important thing is making sure that there's respectful communication and that everyone is on the same page. but there's no one-size-fits-all way to do that.

i wish i could give you guys a prescriptive "You Must Do It This Way" guide, but that's.... basically the opposite of what polyamory is about, HAHA.

feelings for multiple people!

i was gonna tack this on to the previous section but decided it warranted its own lil bit.

a defining feature (....i'm told?) of monogamous relationships is that a monogamous person only has feelings for One individual at a time. they only want a relationship with one individual at a time. or, if they DO have feelings for multiple people simultaneously, they're still only comfortable dating one person at a time & being exclusive with that one person.

this is perfectly fine!

the poly experience is generally different from this. but once again..... polyamorous people all have different individual perspectives on this.

for me, i have never been able to draw hard boxes around romantic vs sexual vs platonic relationships, & i love many people at once. my personal polycule lacks many strict definitions beyond "these are my chosen people, i want to forge a life with them indefinitely, whatever shape that life takes"

some poly people feel explicit romantic or sexual attraction to multiple people at once, some poly people feel almost no romantic or sexual attraction at all. i'd say that MOST poly people feel different things for different partners, which is not a bad thing!

some poly people are even monogamous-leaning -- they have just chosen one romantic partner who is themselves part of a larger polycule. (so this monogamous-leaning person has at least one metamour!)

or alternatively, they might have one romantic partner AND a qpr, or other ways of defining relationships. (this is a factor in my own polycule!)

i made this its own point because if you're writing a straightforward triad, this is unlikely to come up in the story itself -- but it's worth thinking about how your characters develop/handle feelings outside of their partnerships.

like, is this sort of a soulmateship, 'these are the only ones for me' type deal? in which they won't fall in love with anyone else, and can be fairly certain of that?

that's pretty close to typical monogamous standards but you Can make it work. just be thoughtful with it

alternatively, can you see any of these characters falling in love Again after the happily-ever-after? and how would the triad approach it, if so? what would they all need to talk about beforehand, and what feelings would everybody have about the situation?

it's worth considering these questions even if the hypothetical will never feature in your actual canon, because knowing the answers to these questions will help you understand all of the individuals & their relationship(s) MUCH better.

i've been typing this for nearly two hours and there's a lot more i COULD say because... there's just a lot to say. i'll close out with some quick questions that you can ask yourself when developing the dyad dynamics within your triad

first, take a page and create a separate section for each individual dyad. then answer these questions for every pair:

how does each pair act when alone?

how do they act differently alone compared to when they're with their third partner?

are there any elements of this dyad (romantic, sexual, financial, domestic, etc) that these two people DON'T have with the third partner?

if so, what are they?

are there any boundaries or hard limits within this dyad that aren't shared with the third partner?

if so, what are they?

partner 3 goes out of town alone for a few weeks. what are the remaining two doing in their absence?

(doesn't have to be anything special, it's just to get a sense of how the two interact on a day-by-day basis without the third there)

what is something that each partner in the dyad admires about the other -- that they DON'T necessarily see in the third partner?

what problem do These Two Specifically need to solve in the story before their relationship will work?

how is that problem DIFFERENT from the problems being solved within the other two dyads?

doing this for ALL THREE dyads is VITAL imo. that way, you develop complex and nuanced and different relationships that all have unique dynamics.

those questions should be enough to get you started, i hope

then After you've charted the differences in relationships, you can start to jot down similarities in the overarching triad. what does one person admire in Both of their partners? what are activities that all three like to do together? what are boundaries or discussions that all three share?

but the main goal is to figure out how to Differentiate each relationship!

a polycule is only as strong as the individual relationships within it. if two people are struggling with their own relationship, adding a third person won't fix that.

(UNLESS the third person is the catalyst for those two to, like, Actually Communicate And Work Their Shit Out. i just mean that the old adage of "maybe if we just add a third-" works about as well to fix a miserable non-communicative marriage as, uh, "maybe if we have a baby-")

AND FINALLY.

if you're not sure whether your poly romance reads organically to poly people, you can hire a sensitivity reader with poly experience. if you can't afford that, you can read up on polyamorous resources like a glossary of terms & articles actually written by poly people. (and stories written by poly people!)

you can also just.... ask poly people questions, if they're open to it. i like talking about polyamory and my own relationships so you're welcome to send asks if u want, i just can't guarantee i'll answer bc my energy levels fluctuate a lot and i don't always have time.

polyamorous people are in an uphill battle for positive representation right now & so the LAST thing i want to see is authors giving up on their stories bc they're worried about getting things Wrong. well-meaning and positive stories that treat this kind of love as normal, healthy, & aspirational are So So So Needed. even if you guys end up with some funky-feeling details.

seriously, if you're monogamous then you probably don't have a full idea of Just How Nasty a lot of people can get about polyamory. i wish it DIDN'T mean so much for you guys to want to write nice stories about us, but it does mean a lot. and it means a lot that you want to do it WELL.

in conclusion. this is not a prescriptive guide, it's just a way to raise questions. and also, you all are doing FINE.

#thebibliosphere i apologize for tagging u when we don't know each other at all i just want u to get credit for the initial discussion #given that it is so much more thoughtful and clear than anything i'd think to write.#i did NOT mean to spend multiple hours on this but once i started writing i was like #oh god i actually do have like a lot i can tell monogamous people about writing poly people & the poly perspective #anyway. i mention it in the post but people can send me (respectful. obviously) asks if they have questions #i cant promise to answer all of them bc i am bad at this. but if i'm well enough then i'll try #polyamory #non-monogamy #ethical non-monogamy #writing #my writing #writing advice #relationships

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icy-book · 10 months

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Consider, if you will, AU (either with canon post-s1 pre-s2 events but D.A.D.D.I.E.S. solves things before season 2 would start, or no Doodler/betrayal but Nicky still has to leave because FBI or other reasons) in which Terry Jr is the full time drama teacher for Teen High. Nicky returns from wherever he's been and is like "Well I want to be an active part of my kid's life and try and make up for lost time. I should go to his parents' evening, find out how he's doing in school, and meet his teachers. Especially this Mr Marlowe guy, Taylor seems to think he's awesome." And walking right into that classroom/hall to find his ex-boyfriend best friend sitting there in a dorky sweater and tie combo

Cue Terry, without missing a beat, greeting them as if nothing is wrong

Internal: when the FUCK did he come back and oh my god this is so awkward fuck I have to be professional how do I tell this guy that his kid is a loveable little shit after everything that's happened oh god oh fuck

Externally: "Hello Taylor and Mr Close-Foster-Freeman. I'm Taylor's drama teacher" *shakes hand* "Would you like to take a seat?"

#Nicky: I should go to Taylor's parents evening #Cassandra knowing full well that Terry is the drama teacher: you know what that sounds like a great idea #Both Terry Jr and Nicky afterwards sent her the So was anyone going to tell me blank meme #Nicky spending that night freaking out to Cass like #Did he get hotter??? I swear he got hotter in the 13 years I've been away #It's not fair Cass his eyes are even pretty in the school's shitty lights that they don't have the budget to fix #He looks so good in a tie Cassie. WHY DOES HE LOOK SO GOOD IN A TIE #Also when the fuck did he get married #WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE HAS A DAUGHTER #....Cass he would be so good with kids I think I'm going to die #(Nicky was wrong as Terry is so bad with teenagers)#Cassandra completely unimpressed just trying to do her woodwork #But also very indulgent towards her ex-husband's tomfoolery #Nicky: do you think his wife is okay with poly relationships #Cassandra: a) I'm pretty sure Terry would require a minimum of 6 months joint and individual therapy for both of you #Before you can start dating again #And b) if she is let me know because Veronica is a Snacc #I have many thoughts about this if you can't tell #Which I may expand on it requested #terry jr #dungeons and daddies #terry stampler #dndads #terry jr stampler #dndads s2 #dndads terry jr #nicholas foster #nick close #nicky freeman #nicky close foster

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lastoneout · 1 year

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ngl I shoulda known I was poly and ace sooner cuz I watched Bridget Jones’ Baby and was genuinely shocked to the point that it Ruined The Entire Film For Me when she actually picked a guy at the end. I just didn’t get it. In my little queer head the whole film seemed to be building to her deciding that she doesn’t need to be in a relationship with either man for them to like, be equally important parts of her life and for her to love them(or that she could be with them both) but then??? At the end she picks one???? I remember the scene where she’s going into labor and both guys hold out their hands for her to hold and it’s like symbolic of the “choice” and I was so ready for it to be this beautiful moment where she grabs both hands because she needs and loves both of them(or neither bcs she can do it on her own) BUT she grabbed just one and I was like ??????? Excuse me???????

Anyway being queer really does color everything about how you view the world even if you don’t get it yet and I am still so fucking upset about the end of that movie lmao

#I WANT MORE POLY RELATIONSHIPS AND QPRS IN FICTION AND I WANT THEM NOW #Literally being poly and aspec RUINS those 'you have to pick' stories for me absolutely ruins them #I keep getting my queer heart broken when the character chooses in the end #OR FUCKING THAT AHAREN-SAN ANIME #Don't even get me started that shit was setting up the most GORGEOUS ot3 but then OFC NO #I'm so mad about this all the time #this is why my ass falls for ot3s so much btw #it isn't cuz I don't like x ship or whatever it's because I LITERALLY WANT THEM TO ALL BE TOGETHER FFS

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3gremlins · 3 months

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i like how all the guides are like "noble/soldier" are the best backgrounds for a paladin and I'm like, shut your faces, kier's (they/he) bg is URCHIN which means they look out for kids/the downtrodden and have bonuses to sleight of hand checks. also they're a drow so you know that was an extra rough childhood. like i rented rooms in the elfsong just for fun and he got inspiration by like just having a real place to stay that wasn't the ground T.T it was neat that the camp moved indoors (including scratch and the owlbear lol, hopefully the inkeepers don't mind owlbear pellets lol)

anyway i really like a character choosing to be a paladin after having a harsh life, you know? it feels more earned than if they grew up in the lap of luxury (noble) or even if they're just a dutiful soldier following orders (*obvs* soldiers can have harsh lives too but the vibe is different). i like that there's so many lost kids in this game you can help too (i realize the guides are just like "oh this bg gives you helpful bonuses" but i think it's more fun to play against type sometimes)

#baldur's gate 3 #kier #paladin #tav #bg3 spoilers #more paladin musings #second playthrough #q #text post #sort of half assed the romances so far tbh #like started one with astarion but he seemed more like he needed a friend (so might've accidentally nixed that)#they're sort of in a thing with halsin too #have exceptional relationship with shadowheart but i think we missed the boat on her romance?#idk i hate that you can't late game start something with an origin character #urchin bg #also got to exceptional with wyll but sort of missed his romance start i think (i feel like my tavs are always bffs with wyll)#idk maybe kier will just be friends with everyone else they all seem like they just need friends lol #also the romance starts feel super final and i am the most indecisive bisexual of all (wish more of them were truly poly)

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dollfairy · 3 months

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sometimes on the poly subreddit you'll get posts from people being like "is this normal" and they say it's their first relationship. ever.

and sure some people might feel inclined toward non monogamy from the start, just like some people know early on they have no interest in sex...people know things about themselves at various points in their lives, and there's no judgment from me for being early in their journey, and wanting to check in with people who have more experience.

but then you'll get posts like "hey it's my first relationship, he's married and has 9 other partners but he gets jealous if I date anyone else, is this normal???" and I have to wonder if they've ever like...met another person???

#like theres dating inexperience and then theres not having any inkling of basic human interactions and standards????#also full disclosure im not gonna judge a newbie for dating poly on their first relationship but also #gonna side eye ppl who start off with super complicated dynamics w zero relationship experience #bc thats a recipe for everyone getting burned

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butterflydm · 2 years

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rand & min: a self-fulfilling prophecy?

So, we’re told in text, by Min, that her viewings always come true. She definitely believes it. But the evidence we get in text is somewhat more fuzzy.

It seems to me that there are four broad categories of Min’s viewings:

Sure, seems like a legit prophetic viewing.

Requires some massaging of the events to make it fit the viewing.

Viewing only seems to come true because of active work by Min, or someone she has told about the viewing.

Viewing fails to come true but Min has forgotten about it and doesn’t mention the failure. (note: I do believe that, out of world, we are supposed to believe Min’s viewings are infallible and chalk up any changes in events to a mistake/changed mind by the author but I am noting this for completion’s sake)

Categories #1 & #2 are definitely the largest and I would definitely say that Min’s viewings are mostly reliable. Category #3 is actually the one that I find the most interesting. How much do Min’s viewings rely on her active participation to come true?

Because, for someone who firmly believes that fate is inevitable and there’s no point in fighting against it, Min shares her viewings and acts on them quite frequently (she’s always saying that she hates sharing her viewings but she also shares them constantly, so she’s another of the characters who lies a lot to herself, which is common with WoT characters). And a big example of that is her relationship with Rand.

In my reread, I’ve noticed that Min does not appear to love Rand ‘for’ any particular reason except that she’s certain that she is destined to love Rand due to her own viewing.

After having double-checking through her PoVs in the books, this is a sampling of her comments as she ‘falls in love’ but before they actually reunite in LoC:

Light, I don’t want to fall in love with a man that I’ve only met once, and a farmboy at that.

She goes on for a WHILE about how he isn’t the type of man she finds attractive while following the Pattern’s bidding to take care of him after the battle in Falme. She has one positive comment about him: he has silky hair. Two, I suppose, if you include, “you’re not bad-looking.” A glowing endorsement!

She compares the upcoming love square as “flies caught in a spiderweb”.

“I don’t know if I want you to choose me.”

She blames her being in Tar Valon in TSR as ‘doing fool things for a fool man’ (Rand has neither asked her to go nor even is aware that she has gone to the White Tower).

She blames him for her own choices: The Light burn Rand al’Thor for getting me into this.

Siuan: “Yet you do love him.” Min: “I don’t have any choice.”

re: being in a dress - Was this how Rand wanted her? Would he actually see her, if she wore dresses and simpered at him like a brainless chit?

There’s a whole tirade about how it’s his fault that she’s wearing a dress right now, despite it explicitly being Siuan’s fault. And she makes assumptions that he’s “staring at some Tairen woman with half her bosom exposed at this very minute”.

She wished they had never learned she was in love with Rand al’Thor. Sometimes she wished she had never learned it. A man who barely knew she was alive, a man like that. What he was no longer seemed as important as the fact that he had never looked at her twice, but it was all of a piece, really.

Burn him, if I’d never met him, I wouldn’t be in this pickle!

re: Leane flirting - If I could do that to one particular man, I’d be more than satisfied.

Now she was thinking about changing what she was, for a man.

She wished she knew how to make Rand look at her like those men were looking at Leane.

What she saw was always true. It always happened. She knew the same way that she had known the first time she saw Rand al’Thor that she would fall desperately, helplessly in love with him, the same way she had known she would have to share him with two other women.

-but she still had a personal goal. Making a man who had never looked at her twice fall in love with her before he went mad. Maybe she was as mad as he was destined to be.

Rand bloody al’Thor. Fall in love with a man, and you ended up doing laundry, even if it did belong to another man. When she marched into the kitchen to demand a washtub and hot water, she was snarling every bit as much as Siuan.

You’ll be whatever you think he wants you to be.

Before they meet up again in LoC, she doesn’t seem to know very much about him except that he was a shepherd (when she dislikes country-related things) and he’s “not bad-looking”, yet she constantly blames him for her own choices and makes assumptions about his personality that don’t match what the readers have seen in his behavior. Despite spending a winter in the same place in between TGH and TDR, she doesn’t appear to know him at all as a person. In all of her PoV chapters before they finally reunite in LoC, she’s named one positive quality about him: he has silky hair. That’s it. That’s all she’s got.

Yet she is so convinced that she is destined to love him -- desperately and helplessly -- that she talks herself into leaping into love without having a single reason for actually being attracted to Rand as a person (either physically or his personality).

All so that she can hurry on with: a. making him to love her back and b. clearing a path for herself by his side. Very pragmatic but not terribly romantic.

Now, again, from a pragmatic point of view, her actions do make sense -- she believes absolutely in her viewings and her viewings have told her that these three specific women will fall in love with Rand but she doesn’t know whether or not he will love them back. Obviously, being desperately in love with someone who doesn’t love you back kinda sucks.

But if Min had had all her other viewings but not the one about Rand’s three beautiful women, would she have considered herself ‘in love’ with him enough to go to him in LoC? The only reason she has given at this point for loving him is the viewing. How would her actions have been different if she hadn’t had the viewing and would they have ever ‘fallen in love’ at all?

We know that Rand is attracted to her, as well as to Elayne and Aviendha, because we have a sneak peek into his dreams. But we also know, because of his own destiny, that Rand doesn’t view himself as a desirable figure to get involved with and would never make the first move. And lots of people are attracted to people that they never actually pursue. Being attracted doesn’t inevitably lead to a relationship.

How would Min’s actions have been different if she hadn’t had that viewing?

She might not have tried to get close to Elayne if she didn’t have an extra reason to do so. Either way, Elayne wouldn’t have heard anything about needing to ‘share’ her husband but still would have learned of the idea of ‘sister-wives’ from Aviendha in TDR (so Elayne and Aviendha would still be on a relatively similar path if Min’s viewing were removed; I actually have Some Thoughts about Aviendha’s silver rings visions as well but the vibes on that are overall more positive because it actually pushes her away from Rand for quite a while and she’s forced to begrudgingly admit she likes him after being in his company for a book and a half. I think that it’s likely Aviendha and Rand actually could have gone through basically the same emotional journey in TSR/TFOH even if she hadn’t seen him in the silver rings at all).

Her love for Rand does feel to me like it was created by Min’s viewing, an odd little time-travel-esque paradox. She loves him because she saw that she would love him, but never actually does the emotional work of ‘falling in love’ with him.

In terms of ‘out of world’ reasoning (Doylist) for why Min has the viewing about Rand’s three women, I think it was likely the author trying to make it so that the reader wouldn’t be surprised by Rand ending up with all three women.

But it does (unintentionally, I assume) give a gloss of ruthless pragmatism to Min’s character, the way she is so focused on getting Rand to fall in love with her because she is certain that she’s destined to love him (there’s a strong Min/Mat comparison to be made in this regard, but I will get there in a few more books lol) rather than exploring her own heart and seeing if she actually DOES love him or if she can go against her own viewing. Instead, she takes it as a given and goes from there.

#wot reread #lord of chaos #this slots in here #wot meta #wot book spoilers #wot spoilers #rand al'thor #min farshaw #wheel of time #wot #a mental exercise on viewings and forcing fate to happen #anyway this is all very much about book!min #i think that the show has an excellent chance of improving the rand x min relationship #and have already started doing so by removing Min's attempt to sabotage Rand's relationship with Egwene #next step: don't have her subtly trying to manipulate elayne into accepting a poly relationship #let that be something elayne actually wants on her own!

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