#anti mai | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

sneezypeasy · 1 month

Text

Why I Deliberately Avoided the "Colonizer" Argument in my Zutara Thesis - and Why I'll Continue to Avoid it Forever

This is a question that occasionally comes up under my Zutara video essay, because somehow in 2 hours worth of content I still didn't manage to address everything (lol.) But this argument specifically is one I made a point of avoiding entirely, and there are some slightly complicated reasons behind that. I figure I'll write them all out here.

From a surface-level perspective, Zuko's whole arc, his raison d'etre, is to be a de-colonizer. Zuko's redemption arc is kinda all about being a de-colonizer, and his redemption arc is probably like the most talked about plot point of ATLA, so from a basic media literacy standpoint, the whole argument is unsound in the first place, and on that basis alone I find it childish to even entertain as an argument worth engaging with, to be honest.

(At least one person in my comments pointed out that if any ship's "political implications" are problematic in some way, it really ought to be Maiko, as Mai herself is never shown or suggested to be a strong candidate for being a de-colonizing co-ruler alongside Zuko. If anything her attitudes towards lording over servants/underlings would make her… a less than suitable choice for this role, but I digress.)

But the reason I avoided rebutting this particular argument in my video goes deeper than that. From what I've observed of fandom discourse, I find that the colonizer argument is usually an attempt to smear the ship as "problematic" - i.e., this ship is an immoral dynamic, which would make it problematic to depict as canon (and by extension, if you ship it regardless, you're probably problematic yourself.)

And here is where I end up taking a stand that differentiates me from the more authoritarian sectors of fandom.

I'm not here to be the fandom morality police. When it comes to lit crit, I'm really just here to talk about good vs. bad writing. (And when I say "good", I mean structurally sound, thematically cohesive, etc; works that are well-written - I don't mean works that are morally virtuous. More on this in a minute.) So the whole colonizer angle isn't something I'm interested in discussing, for the same reason that I actually avoided discussing Katara "mothering" Aang or the "problematic" aspects of the Kataang ship (such as how he kissed her twice without her consent). My whole entire sections on "Kataang bad" or "Maiko bad" in my 2 hour video was specifically, "how are they written in a way that did a disservice to the story", and "how making them false leads would have created valuable meaning". I deliberately avoided making an argument that consisted purely of, "here's how Kataang/Maiko toxic and Zutara wholesome, hence Zutara superiority, the end".

Why am I not willing to be the fandom morality police? Two reasons:

I don't really have a refined take on these subjects anyway. Unless a piece of literature or art happens to touch on a particular issue that resonates with me personally, the moral value of art is something that doesn't usually spark my interest, so I rarely have much to say on it to begin with. On the whole "colonizer ship" subject specifically, other people who have more passion and knowledge than me on the topic can (and have) put their arguments into words far better than I ever could. I'm more than happy to defer to their take(s), because honestly, they can do these subjects justice in a way I can't. Passing the mic over to someone else is the most responsible thing I can do here, lol. But more importantly:

I reject the conflation of literary merit with moral virtue. It is my opinion that a good story well-told is not always, and does not have to be, a story free from moral vices/questionable themes. In my opinion, there are good problematic stories and bad "pure" stories and literally everything in between. To go one step further, I believe that there are ways that a romance can come off "icky", and then there are ways that it might actually be bad for the story, and meming/shitposting aside, the fact that these two things don't always neatly align is not only a truth I recognise about art but also one of those truths that makes art incredibly interesting to me! So on the one hand, I don't think it is either fair or accurate to conflate literary "goodness" with moral "goodness". On a more serious note, I not only find this type of conflation unfair/inaccurate, I also find it potentially dangerous - and this is why I am really critical of this mindset beyond just disagreeing with it factually. What I see is that people who espouse this rhetoric tend to encourage (or even personally engage in) wilful blindness one way or the other, because ultimately, viewing art through these lens ends up boxing all art into either "morally permissible" or "morally impermissible" categories, and shames anyone enjoying art in the "morally impermissible" box. Unfortunately, I see a lot of people responding to this by A) making excuses for art that they guiltily love despite its problematic elements and/or B) denying the value of any art that they are unable to defend as free from moral wickedness.

Now, I'm not saying that media shouldn't be critiqued on its moral virtue. I actually think morally critiquing art has its place, and assuming it's being done in good faith, it absolutely should be done, and probably even more often than it is now.

Because here's the truth: Sometimes, a story can be really good. Sometimes, you can have a genuinely amazing story with well developed characters and powerful themes that resonate deeply with anyone who reads it. Sometimes, a story can be all of these things - and still be problematic.*

(Or, sometimes a story can be all of those things, and still be written by a problematic author.)

That's why I say, when people conflate moral art with good art, they become blind to the possibility that the art they like being potentially immoral (or vice versa). If only "bad art" is immoral, how can the art that tells the story hitting all the right beats and with perfect rhythm and emotional depth, be ever problematic?

(And how can the art I love, be ever problematic?)

This is why I reject the idea that literary merit = moral virtue (or vice versa) - because I do care about holding art accountable. Even the art that is "good art". Actually, especially the art that is "good art". Especially the art that is well loved and respected and appreciated. The failure to distinguish literary critique from moral critique bothers me on a personal level because I think that conflating the two results in the detriment of both - the latter being the most concerning to me, actually.

So while I respect the inherent value of moral criticism, I'm really not a fan of any argument that presents moral criticism as equivalent to literary criticism, and I will call that out when I see it. And from what I've observed, a lot of the "but Zutara is a colonizer ship" tries to do exactly that, which is why I find it a dishonest and frankly harmful media analysis framework to begin with.

But even when it is done in good faith, moral criticism of art is also just something I personally am neither interested nor good at talking about, and I prefer to talk about the things that I am interested and good at talking about.

(And some people are genuinely good at tackling the moral side of things! I mean, I for one really enjoyed Lindsay Ellis's take on Rent contextualising it within the broader political landscape at the time to show how it's not the progressive queer story it might otherwise appear to be. Moral critique has value, and has its place, and there are definitely circumstances where it can lead to societal progress. Just because I'm not personally interested in addressing it doesn't mean nobody else can do it let alone that nobody else should do it, but also, just because it can and should be done, doesn't mean that it's the only "one true way" to approach lit crit by anyone ever. You know, sometimes... two things… can be true… at once?)

Anyway, if anyone reading this far has recognised that this is basically a variant of the proship vs. antiship debate, you're right, it is. And on that note, I'm just going to leave some links here. I've said about as much as I'm willing/able to say on this subject, but in case anyone is interested in delving deeper into the philosophy behind my convictions, including why I believe leftist authoritarian rhetoric is harmful, and why the whole "but it would be problematic in real life" is an anti-ship argument that doesn't always hold up to scrutiny, I highly recommend these posts/threads:

In general this blog is pretty solid; I agree with almost all of their takes - though they focus more specifically on fanfic/fanart than mainstream media, and I think quite a lot of their arguments are at least somewhat appropriate to extrapolate to mainstream media as well.

I also strongly recommend Bob Altemeyer's book "The Authoritarians" which the author, a verified giga chad, actually made free to download as a pdf, here. His work focuses primarily on right-wing authoritarians, but a lot of his research and conclusions are, you guessed it, applicable to left-wing authoritarians also.

And if you're an anti yourself, welp, you won't find support from me here. This is not an anti-ship safe space, sorrynotsorry 👆

In conclusion, honestly any "but Zutara is problematic" argument is one I'm likely to consider unsound to begin with, let alone the "Zutara is a colonizer ship" argument - but even if it wasn't, it's not something I'm interested in discussing, even if I recognise there are contexts where these discussions have value. I resent the idea that just because I have refined opinions on one aspect of a discussion means I must have (and be willing to preach) refined opinions on all aspects of said discussion. (I don't mean to sound reproachful here - actually the vast majority of the comments I get on my video/tumblr are really sweet and respectful, but I do get a handful of silly comments here and there and I'm at the point where I do feel like this is something worth saying.) Anyway, I'm quite happy to defer to other analysts who have the passion and knowledge to give complicated topics the justice they deserve. All I request is that care is taken not to conflate literary criticism with moral criticism to the detriment of both - and I think it's important to acknowledge when that is indeed happening. And respectfully, don't expect me to give my own take on the matter when other people are already willing and able to put their thoughts into words so much better than me. Peace ✌

*P.S. This works for real life too, by the way. There are people out there who are genuinely not only charming and likeable, but also generous, charitable and warm to the vast majority of the people they know. They may also be amazing at their work, and if they have a job that involves saving lives like firefighting or surgery or w.e, they may even be the reason dozens of people are still alive today. They may honestly do a lot of things you'd have to concede are "good" deeds.

They may be all of these things, and still be someone's abuser. 🙃

Two things can be true at once. It's important never to forget that.

#zutara discourse #the colonizer argument #anti anti zutara #text post #long post #anti maiko #anti mai #tagging just in case #anti purity culture #this is not an anti-ship safe space

260 notes · View notes

forevermore05 · 12 days

Text

Zuko and his protectiveness over Katara backfired on the show

I think we're all quite aware of the fact that Zuko is canonically very protective over Katara

Exhibit A

When he saves Katara from falling rubble in the Western air temple.

Exhibit B

When he protects Katara from flames in that same episode when she is about to blood bend that fire nation soldier.

Exhibit C

The famous Agni Kai where he take lightning for Katara

Now why are these so significant? I think these are big gestures are to show Zuko's efforts to make amends after what he did to Katara. It could be argued these are very extreme ways of making it up to her because these came at the cost of his life. But this also goes to show his character development, as he is willing to protect Katara from danger. For me, one of the reasons why I ship them is because of his protectiveness. It's refreshing to see a character that has always been there to help and to be a support system to others be protected by someone else. I think it can be very fulfilling as a viewer. This effort that was made to write their relationship was so genuine, and it felt so heartfelt as the viewer, that it just made their dynamic one of the strongest in the show. Whether that be romantically or just platonically, their dynamic is probably one of the best in my opinion.

Now, with all that his protectiveness towards Katara immediately evaporate after the last Agni Kai which was pretty shocking, as they didn't get time to be able to talk about what happened. I feel like it removes a piece of genuineness from the show that the characters care for each other. And of course I know a reason why this could have happened is because, well, Kataang and Maiko exist. I think what made their dynamics so strong is because of their protectiveness for one another. Especially, Zuko's protectiveness over Katara. When it was removed in the comics, it felt like a bond had been destroyed because a big part of their dynamic was protecting each other and being there for each other, and having that level of communication. They were protecting each other through their communication and through their support for one another.

How I feel like it backfired on the show is that it created a bit of an emptiness in both of the characters. Especially when they interacted, it felt more distant in the comics, and it felt as if they were strangers. Zuko's writing, which leads to him being protective over her, is so poignant in their relationship that once it is removed it creates a hole in a way it makes his character feel more hollow in his relationship with Katara. It feels like an effort to create a divide and an erasure of their past and how significant his taking lightning for her was. A show that is built of meaningful character relationships took a piece of its own heart out and of its own show and stabbed it in front of all of us when it came to the erasure of Zutara. So they could push the canon ships. They were willing to remove that important element of character relationships for 2 poorly written couples.

I think it creates a level of ingenuity in this show. That is not shocking as many of Katara's other love interests met the same fate of ingenuity, whether that be Jet or Haru. Where she's never able to show her feelings about these people. Which I find quite strange seeing how the show aims to create depth and talk about feelings that actually provoke feelings in you. They don't actually go in-depth with what the leading lady's thoughts are about other people. For all the sake of keeping the focus on Kataang it costs the good writing for Katara to be able to feel complex emotions about the other male interests in her life. And it leads to a rough ending for a strong dynamic like Zuko and Katara that shows their desperation for Kataang at the cost of good writing especially for Katara.

#avatar the last airbender #zutara #zuko x katara #katara #zuko #zuko deserved better #katara defense squad #anti kataang #anti aang #anti maiko #anti mai #anti bryke #bryke critical

151 notes · View notes

geegers22 · 3 months

Text

I’ve seen lots of conversation on here about Zutara shippers opinions on aang and mai and i thought I’d give my point of view.

I want to start by saying that I think there should be more of a distinction between disliking a character because they are a bad person and disliking a character because they are written badly. With that being said, I can confidently say that, with the material of the main ATLA show, I dislike Aang and Mai because they are badly written characters. Meaning, if their arcs were properly finished, I would have no problems with them. This brings me to another topic of how I don’t really ‘hate’ characters who are bad people if they’re well written but that’s a conversation for another post.

I need to point out that I didn’t start disliking Aang and Mai until they had their arcs undermined when Kataang and Maiko became canon. With the arcs they were going on, they had so much potential to be really interesting and I enjoyed their personalities.

When it comes to Aang, I had no problem with him as a character until season 3 part 2 when I started to realize that his world view (which is flawed based solely on the fact that he is young and there is no way he’s going to have a nuanced pov) was not going to be challenged. Aang should have had to give up katara. Aang should not have just had everything handed to him with the lion turtle and the pointy rock.

Then there’s the southern raiders which I would argue, if Aang’s arc had been completed, would not illicit as many conversations and arguments about it as it currently has. Because his actions in that episode make sense (Sokkas don’t really but again-that’s another story) because he’s a kid. This episode should have been a big decider of his change in worldview. The problem is that the creators decided his flaws didn’t exist and that he was perfect. (At 12 years old?!?!?)

Then there’s Mai. She’s a much smaller character but that doesn’t mean she deserves less of an arc. Mai is a character whose personality I love! (I’m all for gloomy depressed women!) There’s two ways Mai’s character could have developed, and I think both options are great, the problem is that Bryke decided to go in neither direction.

On the one hand, Mai could have been a representation of unlearning the propaganda she was taught in the fire nation throughout her whole life. I think this direction would make Maiko more believable, although I still don’t think they are a good couple because their personalities create a toxic dynamic and Mai’s story with Zuko is meant to represent that toxicity.

The second option would be to have her views not change, like we see in the show, and have her not get back together with Zuko. This is the more interesting path in my opinion because it’s more realistic. I don’t think the problem with Mai’s arc lies with her personal views of the fire nation, more so with her relationship with Zuko. As we have it in the show, Mai’s views don’t change. Therefor, it doesn’t make sense for her character or for Zuko’s for them to get back together like nothing ever happened.

When it comes down to it. Both Aang and Mai had their arcs sabotaged because the creators rejected Zutara. Even without Zuko and Katara getting together these were the wrong decisions. Both characters had potential to be well written, but in the end, the creators chose the path didn’t allow that to happen because they just couldn’t kill their darling. (Kataang)

Sorry for rambling, this is kind of just my take on the whole “Zutara shippers hate Aang and Mai” take.

#is this a meta?#atla #avatar the last airbender #anti aang #anti Mai #anti kataang #anti maiko #anti bryke #zutara #ayo fuck bryke all my homies hate bryke #atla critical #aang critical #Mai critical

183 notes · View notes

darklinaforever · 29 days

Text

The horrible writing of Katara's character has nothing to do with Zutara. And even when we Zutara shippers talk about Katara's horrible treatment in the comics and TLOK, it's never when talking about the ship. But simply how the canonical character was managed and by extension his relationship with Aang which are real disasters whether you like it or not. There are literally tons of comparisons between Katara and the other members of the gaang that prove how she has been neglected as a character. I've already made several posts explaining my point of view on Katara's treatment, so I won't repeat myself here. But it's still an argument that comes up often, I have the impression among pro Kataang people accusing pro Zutara of being misogynistic for not accepting the life that Katara has led, when it's only a question of criticism. objective on how the character was managed! In any case, these people tend to only see the surface, refusing in-depth analysis to only see what suits them... Not to mention all this attempt to negate the fact that Maiko is a toxic couple and that Mai herself is a character with overall writing problems.

Anyway, can we really expect much from someone who is clearly a ghost blog ?

And then when we see what some pro Kataang say :

We wonder who is really saying misogynistic remarks... Especially sorry, it's mainly the pro Kataang who keep repeating that Katara is the avatar's girl, his forever girl over and over again, as if she were Aang's property. But apparently no, the problem is the Zutara who point out the misogynistic writing of a female character.

70 notes · View notes

stardust948 · 3 months

Text

Half Off Chocolate

Prompt: They fight over discounted Valentine's Day chocolate while arguing over who had it worse.

Katara didn’t know why she didn’t just go home.

Her makeup was smeared from crying, dress wrinkled, and hair slipping out of its neat bun. She was a messed and felt even worse inside. Maybe that is why she stopped at the nearest convenient store for some well deserved and frankly overdue, sweets.

The store was a ghost town. Scattered pink and red merchandise laid abandoned on the floor and nearly empty shelves. Of course. Though it was still Valentine’s Day, the hour was late and most of the good stuff was long gone.

Katara wandered to the candy section, feeling like a lost spirit herself; haunting the remains of a once beautiful dwelling now succumbed to ruin. The candy ail was picked clean, as expected. Even the less popular treats were gone. Nothing left except a lone heart shaped red box. An ugly orange sticker slapped hastily on read the box was 50% off due to damage.

‘How fitting. A damaged heart for a damaged heart.’ Katara thought to herself.

A bitter half smile grew on her face as she reached out to pick it up. She did not notice the other hand reaching at the same time until they both grabbed the box. Katara gasped, more out of annoyance than surprise.

The person was a Fire Nation man about her age. He wore a fancy suit with the neck tie partly undone and had long black hair that spilled onto his face. Bits of red peaked under the hair on his left side, probably from a rash or blemish he was trying to hide. Despite this, he was admittedly attractive in his own way.

Katara glared. He must have forgotten what day it was, hastily threw on the fancy outfit and rushed to the store to buy sweets for his disappointed partner. Well too bad! Katara needed it more!

“Excuse you.” Katara said coldly. “I had that first.”

“What? No I did.”

“You’re wrong.” Katara yanked it, but the man held firm. “Let go!”

“I had it first! You let go!”

“No you!”

They yelled and tugged on the chocolate box like a couple of kids fighting on the playground.

“Do you have any idea what I’ve been through?!” Katara spat. “I’ve earned that chocolate!”

“Earned?! I need it more!!!”

“It’s not my fault you forgot Valentines’ Day and had to last minute shopping!”

“I didn’t forget! My girlfriend dumped me today of all days!”

“Oh boohoo! My long term boyfriend proposed today-“

“Well congratulations!” His voice dripped in sarcasm.

“After I caught him cheating, you prick!” Katara snapped. “He didn’t even apologize! Just pulled out a ring and thought that would fix everything!”

“You think that’s bad?! My ex dumped me by bringing the guy she was cheating on me with for the past 2 years!”

“My ex brought his fangirls to the proposal! The very ones who treated me like a maid and constantly threatened me just because I was dating him!”

“My ex threw a glass bottle at my head just for dating another girl while we were on break!”

“My ex threw a lit candle at me because I didn’t want to kiss him right then!”

“My ex did kiss me just to shut me up from talking about confused emotions!”

“My ex purposefully kept me away from my family and constantly belittled my culture!”

“My ex insulted me just for having different opinions from her!”

“My ex compared my grief of my mom’s murder to losing his pet! Then scolded me for giving a witness report against the murder in trail!!!”

“My ex told my sister where I was knowing she’ll tell my abusive father!!!”

The box ripped in half, sending them flying back and pelting them with chocolate. The two stared at each other in stunned silence before the owner came storming up and kicked them out. The slammed door echoed across the bare parking lot as the two continued to stand there awkwardly.

“Did she really do those things?” Katara asked in a hushed tone.

“Yeah.” The man rasped. There was no hiding the sadness in his voice. “Yours’s?”

Katara nodded. “Yeah…”

“Sounds like a really crappy person.”

“Yours’s too.”

There was another brief silence before he spoke again.

“We’re better off without them.”

“Are we?” Katara asked. “We were just fighting over discounted chocolate 5 minutes ago.”

“Okay, maybe not tonight specifically… But in the long run, we’re better off.”

Katara rubbed her necklace as tears formed. She wanted to agree but a large part of her life was tied to that relationship. Tied to him. Katara shook her head. The stranger was right.

“We are better off.”

“Sorry about…” He gestured to the store behind them. ”That.”

“I’m sorry too.” Katara undid her messy bun, letting her hair fall free, then extended her hand. “I’m Katara.”

He accepted with a firm grip. “Zuko.”

#ficlet #atla #atla au #zutara #zutara au #katara #zuko #valentine's day #meet ugly #anti kataang #anti maiko #anti aang #anti mai #to be safe #star's writing

64 notes · View notes

miss-sweetea-pie · 7 months

Text

I just saw an interesting maiko post. I didn’t want to comment or reblog because I figured that person didn’t want to have a discord considering the tags and some times tumblr recommended things to you. I probably wasn’t meant to see it honestly, But now I want to talk about it.

It was about how Zuko and Mai are just teenagers who don’t understand each other sometimes and then fail to communicate.

Also about how Mai’s emotionless trait collides with Zuko’s need for emotional validation and Zuko’s controlling possessiveness collides with Mai’s need for freedom. But they care for each other that doesn’t make them a bad couple, and Mai is not a bad girlfriend.

Honestly it a really good way to frame the relationship. I would also call it incompatible, maybe even toxic? it doesn’t make them bad people, but sometimes people do bring out the worst in you. Technically, this is true for Zuko, considering he went back to the fire nation, and he started dating Mai at the same time. Mai is the first person we see him speaking to after betraying his uncle and the show wants us to know he made the wrong choice. Mai is use as a narrative tool for Zuko’s lack of support in the fire nation,he’s miserable when he goes back home, and the one person, you would think he could connect with, his girlfriend, is cold and emotionally withdrawn. The show used Maiko to explore the the emptiness of being home in the fire nation, the empty promises of fire nation glory he been chasing and it doesn’t resonate with him anymore, also the impossible standard of gaining conditional love. (Sorry but Maiko is Zuko centric so it does makes Mai hard to read at best and abusive at worst)

I don’t deny that they care about each other in someway they’ve known each other since they were children, it’s safe and comfortable. but love is not enough. Honestly most toxic relationship in irl continue because they love each but they are not good for one other. Zuko and Mai they don’t understand each other and it seems like they don’t really want to understand each other. That’s the problem. (Mai mostly).

Maiko is really just a toxic cycle of their needs not being met

This scene where Zuko want to talk about his feeing and open up to her

Mai: *yawn* I just asked if you were cold not for your whole life story.

(Not going to lie, that was funny but it’s still a very dismissive thing to say, especially to your partner.)

Zuko is actually a little bit more sympathetic when she tells her “sob story” he didn’t yawn

Zuko: I like when you express yourself.

(her being off and on with her anger. Is like a metaphor for him being in the fire nation, trying to make something work and it’s not working. Constantly feeling like he said or does the wrong thing)

and It just bubbles over until they finally blew up

Zuko’s possessiveness is a reaction to after he feels like he has done all sorts of stuff to please her. it’s zuko reaching his breaking point. Boy is really insecure in this relationship because the feed back he gets from her is contempt. Sure we could argue and say that doesn’t make mai a bad girl friend maybe this is just her sense of humor or personality. well, it doesn’t mesh well with Zuko therefore, they are incompatible, and a bad couple with each other.

( also Zuko is not nice here that’s kind of the point he hads regressed in his character arc so to speak.)

and then they get back together by making out.

Sure she says she cares but why when did she actually show it? Actions speak louder than words! We never get a moment where Mai gets it and really understands him.

#anti maiko #anti mai #just to be safe #zuko #they deserved better #pro zuko #pro zutara

141 notes · View notes

eponastory · 22 days

Text

So I guess I'm going to talk about Maiko... again.

So, when there is an underdeveloped character like Mai who is literally put into a position to subvert expectations, it's actually bad writing.

It really is. It's not that Mai is problematic, it's that she is just a placeholder. This is the reason I don't find Maiko attractive at all. I'm an experienced writer (21 years now) that utilizes all the characters in a way that makes the story progress along. Mai doesn't really do this unless she is in the same frame as Azula.

Let me put it this way, she has a better relationship with Azula than she does with Zuko. Why? The only example of a relationship with Zuko we get is a flashback to where he's I'm a fountain with her. This is, of course, after we see them together on a ship. He is banished at 13, we don't see Mai before that. Then when he is allowed to return to the Fire Nation, Azula and Ty Lee set him and Mai up on a date. Its... lackluster at best. We are supposed to just fall in love with this ship when there is really no context given to us about how or why. It's a shoehorn. She is shoved into this relationship to subvert the relationship that the writers want to happen with two other characters. It's awful, I hate it, and it lacks development to make me really care about Mai.

It's a huge flaw.

We are given the line 'why don't we order a few servants around, that will make you feel better' is actually gaslighting Zuko into feeling the way she wants him to. That is the problem that people see. Not that she enjoys ordering servants around, but that she invalidates Zuko's feelings when he is really struggling internally with something that is ultimately a difficult decision. He's not happy to be home like he thought he would be. Zuko doesn't really fall for that, though, because he knows it now. It's been done to him all of his life by his own father. He recognizes it now. Which means he is growing. Mai, unfortunately, doesn't get that opportunity until later in the comics, and even then, her growth comes with realizing that her relationship is filled with secrets.

So, yeah... Mai isn't a well fleshed out character. If she was, then maybe I'd like her a little better and ship Maiko. But I don't see that as someone who is familiar with character development and dynamic. Mai is pretty static, where Zuko isn't.

Zutarians don't need to validate themselves to the Antis for not liking Maiko. We love what we love. And it's also pretty fun to write metas.

#my bearded dragon has more braincells than this take #its just bad writing #anti maiko #anti mai #zutara works better

32 notes · View notes

starlight-bread-blog · 8 months

Text

Masterlist 🦋

A collection of posts I put the most effort in. Some are marked by emojies.

Decryption

💙 – Personal favorites

💎 – Partly/majorly dated

VIVZIEPOP (CRITISISM)

💙 Helluva Boss Is Mean To It's Audience

💙 Why Stolas is the Worst

(Tw: Sa) Ozzie and Valentino on consent

Stolas Is A Terrible Father

"Helluva Boss's Pilot Was About Characters"

"Blitzy" and Control

Why Stolitz doesn't work (and how to fix it)

Stella Being Abusive Is A Retcon

Blitzø And Messing Up (Critique)

Helluva Boss's Stock Villians

Stolas And The Biology Of Stolitz

💎 (tw) Angel Dust is Victim Blamed In Ep4

AVATAR: THE LAST AIRBENDER

On Aang Sparing the Fire Lord

Zuko Unlearning Violence

The Last Agni Kai is a Tragedy

My Interpretation of The Southern Raiders: Aang & Zuko

Mai's Redemption Wasn't About Her

💎 Katara Isn't Irrational

💎 Defending Katara's Grief

ZUKO X KATARA (A:TLA)

What My Zutara Endgame Would Look Like

Zutara in Ember Island Players

The Fortune in The Fortune Teller

On Katara's Lines in Ember Island Players

"Katara Just Needed To Heal Zuko's Scar"

"Zuko and Katara Would Be Toxic"

"Katara Needs Aang to Balance Her"

Katara's Canon Interest in Aang

💎 Speculation On Fire Lady Katara

💎 Zutara Shippy Moments

(ANTI) LOKI SERIES

Why Lokius Should Have Been Canon

Loki Shouldn't Have Died

What About Thor (Loki Series)

MIRACULOUS CRITISISM

💙 The Adrigami Breakup Was Hot Garbage

Why I Dislike MLB's Nino

OTHER WORKS

💙 #Bes Talk – Og Blue Eye Samurai posts

💙 ADHD Is A Disorder

Mean Girls 2024 Doesn't Understand Janis

Enemy Vs. Abuser: Catradora

The Blood Moon Curse Was Real

Notes On Fight Club

Charlie's Bullying (Critique)

61 notes · View notes

waywardbananawolf · 2 months

Text

Mai, Ty Lee, Ursa, Iroh they are simple extensions of Zuko's story, sometimes I can't even process them as their own characters, thanks avatar comics for making me hate them and the worst thing is that it not only affects these secondary characters but also affects the main ones with Aang, Katara or Sokka.

I'm tired of the fact that the Avatar universe is so focused on Zuko, the worst thing is that you can't demand a higher narrative quality without finding yourself with a horde of Zuko stans in which you can't criticize the narrative.

#critical atla #atla #critical ursa #critical zuko #critical mai #critical ty lee #anti zuko #anti mai

22 notes · View notes

marshmellowtea · 16 days

Text

i'm sorry but mai making zuko leaving his abusive father and imperialist shitty nation behind about her is so fucking annoying lmao

#i forgot how actually irritating this scene is like wow girl get a grip please #maybe i do dislike her actually SKSJGLKDSJF #avatar the last airbender #anti mai #anti maiko #putting those tags on there for filtering reasons ofc #marshy speaks

16 notes · View notes

the-badger-mole · 3 months

Text

What Being a Zutara Shipper Means for ME!! (not YOU...necessarily)

Where is this idea that Zutara shippers are monolith coming from? I'm soooo bored with people thinking that there's any sort of requirement to shipping this couple. A lot of Zutara shippers ADORE Aang and Mai. I'd go as far as to say most like at least one of them. And that's cool. That's cool...

Hating Aang and Mai is fun, though. They are problematic in different, but oddly similar ways. Picking that apart is a completely valid way to enjoy the fandom. It's not required. No one should have to hate them to enjoy Zutara, but if you do hate them, hate them as loud as you want. They are terrible characters. They have abusive tendencies. Aang, as a character, absolutely perpetuates the Nice Guy myth that as long as you're persistent enough and not a Chan, eventually the girl who's never shown any interest in you will fall for you. Because you're "tH3 r3@L H3r0OOooO!" It doesn't matter that you've violated your crush's consent. Twice. Or that you go on to flirt with anti-miscegenation on a whim and only don't go through with it because it would effect you personally. No biggie!

I know it's a bit harder to hate on Mai. After all, Zuko did have the audacity to talk to her, his girlfriend about his feelings. He was SO out of line for that. How DARE he want support from her? Doesn't he know emotions and human connection are like garlic to emotional vampires like Mai??? Still, hating Mai is fun, so I'll do it anyway. I know it's so quirky, edgy goth of her to threaten him with death if he ever broke up with her again and then go on to not let him know her own father is trying to assassinate him, but I'm not a fan. Sorry 🤷🏾‍♀️

You know what, though? I found my people, as few as we may be. And I did it without telling people how they should or shouldn't feel about any characters. It's a good thing I figured out how tagging and blocking works. 🙃

#atla #zutara #anti aang #anti kataang #anti mai #anti maiko #no one's REQUIRED to hate any character to ship other characters #but it's fun #feel however you want #don't let anyone shame you for your opinions about fictional chracters #a...rebuttal #because i HATE it when someone thinks they have the authority to tell someone how to enjoy fandom #go moralize about irl politics #fandom is for everyone #even haters

177 notes · View notes

sneezypeasy · 1 month

Text

This is why I prefer to let other people take the mic when it comes to fandom/moral critique. Even on my best day, I couldn't publish a fandom-critical take half as comprehensive and coherent as this one.

Reposted anonymously with permission from OP, who understandably does not want to deal with hate comments/hate asks for expressing these opinions.

(Hopefully the screenshots load properly on tumblr, I know the first one is incredibly long 😅)

#zutara discourse #anti anti zutara #the colonizer argument #fandom analysis #anti purity culture #anti ship war #anti kataang #anti maiko #anti aang #anti mai

187 notes · View notes

forevermore05 · 17 days

Text

I know it is okay to dislike characters. Their not real so it won't hurt them. However in terms of Aang and Mai when people say "I like Mai and Aang but hate their writing" I think what they are trying to say is that they like the on-paper potential of these characters. Heck Im a culprit for saying this common phrase. Because I do like the on-paper potential for these two. Many people like the idea of these characters and what they could be. They could have been good characters if their writing was not terrible. I rewrote Mai's arc to be about her and her growth. Aang can be fixed if we remove Nice Guy TM and a whole lot of other things (won't get into that now). However, this could be just my perspective.

#avatar the last airbender #zutara #katara #zuko x katara #zuko #anti kataang #anti aang #anti mai #anti maiko #but like not really #but just in case

92 notes · View notes

burst-of-iridescent · 1 year

Note

Can I get your thoughts on this post claiming Mai and Toph are very similar (and that Zuko clicked with Toph immediately because she reminded him of Mai)? https://at.tumblr.com/i-was-talking-to-momo/everyone-else-took-a-really-long-time-to/nyh2nz26iuay

whoooo boy, there are a lot of (sometimes just blatantly untrue) assumptions being flung around in that post.

much of what op says about mai reads more like headcanon than anything actually shown to us in the show (when was mai stifled to "the point of being incredibly depressed and borderline self-destructive"? when do we learn in the show that mai taught herself to throw knives out of boredom? how did mai "never learn to interact with people her age" when she's been friends with ty lee for years and seems to have no problem socializing at a fire nation party?) or is barely substantiated within the show (mai's alleged "repression" at the hands of her parents is told to us - not shown - in a single scene in the third season).

on the other hand, there is actual proof for toph being sheltered and repressed by her parents: we see the difference between who she is on her own/with the gaang vs with her parents. the toph who fights in earth rumble tournaments and picks her toes and speaks her mind without hesitation is not the same toph who wears dainty clothes and allows herself to be led around and meekly obeys her parents' wishes despite her own desire for freedom. there is a clear distinction between who toph feels she has to be, and who she really wants to be, and this is made clear from her very first episode.

by contrast, mai has the same apathetic, indifferent demeanor almost all the time, no matter whether she is with her parents, her friends, or her boyfriend. even in the rare cases that she does show emotion, usually smiling or smirking around zuko, it is undercut by the lack of true understanding and connection in their relationship, which makes her show of emotion feel meaningless and shallow (the only time that mai does seem to show genuine emotion and vulnerability is around ty lee, but unfortunately these moments are too far and few between for me to consider it real depth and growth for mai, much as i ship mailee). unlike toph, there are no real cracks in the facade with mai, which seem to imply that the way mai acts is who she really is, not who she feels she has to be.

i also have to laugh at this part: "Out of the entire gaang, Toph is the one that Zuko understands and empathizes with the most."

toph is the one zuko understands and empathizes with most, huh? that must be why toph was the first person in the gaang zuko felt a kinship with and reached out to - nope, that was katara. well, that's why he opened up about his deepest conflict and trauma to her and she did the same in return - whoops sorry, katara again. never mind, at least zuko and toph took an intimate field trip together related to their moment of connection over their shared trauma - oh wait.

i don't disagree that toph and zuko would have a strong friendship, or that they wouldn't be able to bond over similarities in their upbringing, but unfortunately the show just didn't expound on their relationship as much as it did with zuko's relationships with aang, sokka, and (especially) katara. it's blatantly false to imply that zuko bonded or clicked with toph the most out of anyone in the gaang, and even more so to say that it was because she reminded him of mai - both because toph is vastly different from mai, and because zuko himself didn't truly understand or click with mai in the first place.

ultimately, much of the problem with mai's character comes down to the fact that she's extremely underdeveloped (and the season that tries to expand on her character is also the one where her arc revolves almost entirely around her boyfriend) so comparing her to toph - a main character who received far more depth and development in a single episode than mai did throughout her whole arc - is a task doomed to fail from the start.

#anti mai #anti maiko #toph #zuko #toph meta #don't get me wrong i LOVE me some toph and zuko friendship #but it's just blatantly wrong to say that they were the closest/clicked the most out of anyone in the gaang lmao #we deserved more for sure but the show didn't give it to us #imo toph was also a victim of the inconsistent shoddy writing in book 3 and her character did kind of get shafted #but she did get DEVELOPMENT which is more than mai can say #asks

131 notes · View notes