Reminder that queerbaiting is “characters in this show were intentionally & definitively advertised as being queer in order to increase viewership with queer people, when the show itself doesn’t depict the queerness advertised.”

Queerbaiting is not “these two characters seem to have lots of romantic chemistry to me & even though there has never been any explicit evidence of queerness & the creators have in fact politely denied the romance rumors multiple times, I’m convinced they’re just hiding the secret gay love agenda, and when it turns out that wasn’t the case, I’m going to absolutely crucify the creators/actors/show.”

Recently I've seen a lot of people in many different fandoms go after those who express interest in shipping characters who aren't together in canon, which is just...wild to me. Like these people cite a lot of different reasons why the ONLY right relationship people can ship is the canon one, and some of the takes are even valid, but the core argument is just nuts to me as a person who's been around in fandom for a long time. Idk. I have no solid theory or anything but it feels like this weird shift somehow corresponds with the end of Supernatural or events around that time. It was like Destiel became "canon" and the show ended and now fandom people today have forgotten how shippers were literally ready to burn down the CW to claw the most lukewarm canon acknowledgement of a non-canon ship out of the writers' hands.

Like buddy, do you know what shipping IS? Do you know the history of that term?? The literal definition (you can go google it right now if you don't believe me) is created from people's desire to put two characters together in a non-canonical relationship. The act of shipping has been NON-CANON by nature from the start. So for some (many young, some not) fandom people to say nowadays that you can ONLY ship things from canon?? It's...absolutely revealing a flaw in how we share and perpetuate fan history. Absolutely baffling that the very term created to refer to something could be weaponized against that very same thing. We need to do a better job educating people on how all the fandom staples like AO3 and ship culture came about lest we lose them to the very things they were created to combat.

Do I hate that ship or do I just hate the shippers, a novel by me

Destiel, Sterek and Johnlock fans after the Buddie fandom tried to down play the amount of queer baiting and bullying they went through

(Meanwhile, in the early 2010s)

House MD: We’re the queerbaitingest adaptation of Sherlock Holmes

Guy Ritchie films: No, WE’RE the queerbaitingest adaptation of Sherlock Holmes

BBC Sherlock: [pulls up] both of yall can hold my dick and balls

The fucking funniest scene is I just saw someone say everyone is making Buck's coming out arc about Tommy (someone who is genuinely a major part in Buck's journey) meanwhile I have had to literally scroll past so many fucking posts that just complelty made every important moment for Buck slowly accepting that he might not be straight about how Buck and Eddie (who is currently still a straight man with some heavy religious trauma) can finally get together and cheat on their respective partners.

The call is coming from inside the house you all.

Me when Marianna and John shared a room:

Hello wonderful guru of all things Sherlock! 👋🏼

I was curious if you or your groupies know of any fic that has Sherlock NOT immediately in love with Rosie? Every parent!lock that I have read with Rosie in it seems to always have Sherlock love becoming a co-parent with John and thinking that Rosie is the smartest, most beautiful, lovable angel baby ever born. She's always portrayed as a mini Sherlock, that usually looks like John and rarely takes after Mary at all.

I had a thought that what if he's NOT absolutely enamored of having a baby, even if she is John's? What if he finds her annoying, and messy, and simply 'too much'? She takes John's attention, and time, and isn't a perfect baby/toddler; she cries all the time, or is colicky, or doesn't like Sherlock either. Or once she's older, she's more like Mary than John? Sneaky, a liar, a troublemaker? A bully, a psychopath, a sadist? How would John and him deal with her?

Nothing against Rosie personally, I generally don't mind her when I'm reading parent!lock. But it would be interesting to see a different point of view of her character, and how it affects Sherlock and John's relationship.

I've had no luck searching for something like this on AO3, maybe I'm not searching properly? "Evil Mary" or "Bad Mary" show up easily, but not so much for Rosie 😂.

Any help out there?

Hey Nonny!

Ahh, hmm, good question! Unfortunately I only have "positive" parentlock fics I can personally rec, but I am sure that there are fics out there! Never actually considered the opposite.

Anyone have any that they can offer for Nonny?

It's kinda hilarious but mostly sad for me that from the moment I muted the JohnLock tag because I was tired of seeing so-called TLJCers "meta posts" from 8 years ago and was looking in vain for Sherlock fans who had other interests than a non canon ship, I just... Don't see Sherlock related posts anymore? Except for a couple of Adlock and Sherlolly posts, but I don't engage with these ships either so 🤷

I took my Sherlock x OC fic off AO3 because I ended up losing interest. Never did I take off a fic from AO3 after only three chapters! And it wasn't even because it wasn't read: I was actually surprised to see it bookmarked, receive several kudos and even a couple of lovely comments. The kudos were anonymous for most of them but so what. It was nice to see the attention anyways. So it's not a case of "woman bitter because her shitty fanfic wasn't successful". Considering I had only three chapters online, it was a promising start.

Yet, I lost interest because my passion for the show wasn't fed by exchanges with other fans. I mean, I had a few very nice discussions, -I don't want to tag anyone but the three of you I have discussed Sherlock with several times should easily recognize themselves 💜-, but before I muted the JL tag I spent more time scrolling down than anything else. I think it's a shame because there was so much to this show than a ship. With my story I wanted to explore Sherlock's past, uncover a potential trauma caused by something else than Victor Trevor's death, open a discussion about this, about his relationship with his brother, his sister and his parents.... And I KNOW that Sherlock's relationship with John, wether it's considered platonic or not, is very important. I just wish I could find something else to discuss than Sherlock's feelings for X or Y, or his sexuality.

Some could say it's pretty much the same thing for the Hannibal's fandom: there's no doubt that if I muted Hannigram I wouldn't find any Hannigram related posts. Or I'd probably find anti Hannigram posts, ew. The big difference to me is that Will and Hannibal's relationship is at the core of the show. The show is called "Hannibal" but it could just as well be called "Hannibal and Will": even if you don't ship them, take the relationship out of the equation and the show has nothing left to say, like... Literally.

Don't get me wrong, Sherlock without the pair Sherlock/John would probably be crap, but it would still have Sherlock's relationship with his family to cover. And boy there's much to say, imho. While Hannibal has no one else than Will. Will has no one else than Hannibal. That's the story. Also Hannigram is canon. So it makes sense to me that most of the fandom's posts are focused on Will and Hannibal. It hasn't stopped me from starting a pre-Hannigram fic because I'm very intrigued by the professor Lecter had an affair/student Alana Bloom storyline they hinted at in season 2, but I know I won't lost interest in this fandom anytime soon, because I feel fed by it. And this weird/toxic/and yet very romantic relationship between these two weirdos keeps fascinating me, even after four rewatchings! Besides, most Hannibal fans are unhinged which is I must say, a quality I appreciate very much 😁

do you guys remember when benedict cumberbatch played the dragon in the hobbit movies and everyone shipped the dragon with bilbo baggins because martin freeman was playing bilbo. what was that all about

it’s weird to me that so many people ship johnlock bc of bbc sherlock when the original acd dynamic is SO MUCH gayer. like Watson is always saying how much he loves holmes’ hands or whatever (despite being straight up married) whereas in the bbc adaptation they’re literally like ‘no we aren’t dating’ in the most Uncomfortably Straight way.

anyway what I’m trying to say is that imo acd Johnlock seem like they would make out even if they were both straight, but bbc johnlock wouldn’t date even if they were both gay.

Hard pills to swallow: moftiss didn’t queerbait j*hnlock shippers, you guys just latched onto the idea of 2 white men who barely even like being around each other kissing & ignored the writers every time they told you it wasn’t gonna happen

wait explain to me the destiel hatred i’m curious what abt it angers u that doesn’t apply to the other two ships

great question! the answer would unfortunately require 3 hours and a powerpoint presentation, so i will try to do a brief summary:

a ship sucking only ever has about 25% to do with the ship itself. destiel is bad in the sense that i think dean winchester is an annoying character that gets treated with kiddie gloves by the narrative, which makes him irritating to see on screen, because i personally dislike it when "men are angry and abusive because they just love too strongly, and don't know how to express it :(" is played straight as a character's primary internal conflict. especially over 15 seasons. it's boring, he's boring, and 35 year old men shouldn't be going to colleges trying to figure out which freshman girls are legal or not. hate him.

however the real sin of destiel, beyond the fact that dean winchester and i have beef that will only ever resolve when i get to reincarnate as the rusty nail that kills him, is that the fans are so so so fucking annoying. like yes the narrative frames dean as a golden boy who can either do no wrong, or "well, i guess he did wrong there, but what about how tortured he is :(" but good god. at least the show isn't trying to convince me that destiel is some groundbreaking lifechanging love story, complete with "omg this moment" montages where they romanticize scenes that feature dean either insulting, threatening, or humiliating cas. like this entire show (post season 5) is dean chronically either infantillizing and attempting to keep cas under his control, or holding him up as the only person he can rely on, thus giving cas expectations that are impossible to fulfill.

and don't get me wrong! people can like a shitty person and a fucked up ship. that's basically everything i enjoy on here. but at least like. acknowledge it. aldfkjalka. and if you're gonna like a shitty person and a fucked up ship, at least write about it in an interesting way. 90% of fic and posts written about destiel aren't even about destiel as presented in canon, they're about two generic men with generic personalities who suffer from the world's most generic tropey problems. cookie cutter ass basic relationship. the high school au of ships. boring.

Phrases I think [tumblr] needs to learn.

They are. Temporal context. Periphery demographic. Queerbaiting. Collateral damage. Three of which a lot of people use incorrectly to their advantage. And another that I’m 90% sure they’re ignorant about the actual meaning of. So for the purposes of this post I’ll be listing them along with the meanings and some examples. Like so:

Temporal context. Understanding that when a show, film or book is made and/or set more often than not influences its contents. For example. Stranger things. Friends. Harry Potter. Original star trek. Classic doctor who. You cannot and should not approach these with a 2022 mindset because things made and set twenty or a hundred or hell even five years ago are never going to match the current morality system you’ve cultivated through social media. Either continue being mad that a show set in Reagan’s America hasn’t said the words gay or lesbian to describe its two lgbt characters yet or acknowledge they’re doing a helluva lot more than an actual show from the eighties would’ve done, move on and enjoy what they’ve done so far. Trust me. You’ll be so much better off if you do

Periphery demographic. Why we aren’t getting actual canonical lgbt characters in mainstream Disney movies while the current old guard are still around. It’s all very well and good to go on about how “don’t they know what I would’ve done for representation as a kid?” But they don’t. Because they don’t care about the Tumblr demographic. They care about entertaining the five year olds and the parents with the money to spend on the film who might not want to take the kids to see it if there’s anything they might find objectionable in it. And sadly. Quite a few believe that lgbt content kids films is poisonous to their precious offspring. It’s a truly, truly, horribly shitty belief system. But still. It’s the ugly truth.

Queerbaiting. I’ve heard of it. I’ve never seen it. And all the pairings I’ve seen labelled as it. Ain’t it. Destiel. Supercorp. Swan queen. Byler. Johnlock. That’s not queerbaiting. That’s fans latching on to something that isn’t there and going ballistic and quite frankly terrifyingly entitled when it doesn’t happen. Just because you think a character that’s only ever been interested in the opposite gender is secretly gay and in love with your obsession doesn’t make them gay or make you right. No matter how much meta, fanfic or gifsets you make and consume. Clothes, eating habits, hair and way of speaking doesn’t make someone gay. Do you know what does? Actually being homosexual. Which Dean, Kara, Emma, Mike and John are not. Headcanons are fine. But if you have to change every single little thing about a character to enjoy the show. Then you shouldn’t be watching said show.

Collateral damage. Audrey Rose in descendants. Lindsey Lister in Gilmore Girls. Side characters (Lindsey) or antagonists (Audrey) that exist to be a background character in the main characters story. Unfortunately. Many fans latch onto these characters are bleat about how they deserved better. When they didn’t. Especially in Audrey’s case. Lindsey existed purely to show that Dean Forester, that poor poor mistreated boy, wasn’t over Rory. Audrey existed as the stereotypical bitch that the boy leaves for the better option. And when they tried to give her depth. Her still didn’t get wet. I hate Audrey. Always have. Always will. And I don’t care about Lindsey. But they served their purpose. And fans should leave it at that.

So there you go. Four phrases that [tumblr] should learn. If you do. Then you might wind up being ever so slightly calmer than you were before.

Ohh what's the tea with the Buddie shippers and Destiel/Sterek/etc??

Basically Buddie shippers are trying to say Destiel, Sterek and Johnlock weren't baited nor were the fans mocked for shipping it

Like they're actively denying the Jeep thing and Castiel telling Dean he loves him.

I'm honestly so close to just leaving the 911 fandom because of it

Another unpopular opinion: I might be one of the very few here who absolutely loathes anything I have seen from the original scripts of Sherlock circulating around. I find them HORRIBLE, so 1) I am really glad they didn’t make it to the final scenes, 2) I hate them so much that I am even desperate enough to hypothesise they are fake additions to sway fans, even though there is no reason for that let’s be real, 3) it makes me think that I have given Moftiss way too many benefits of the doubt as it turns out the ending product came out the way it did out of a combo of the actors’ common sense and sheer luck and 4) at least we can be thankful it took Moftiss until the fourth season to indulge in themselves fully. Thank goodness.

But the deleted scripts especially from TSOT…. I now get why Freeman considered that script bullshit. Wouldn’t surprise me if he was the one to throw the first draft in their faces and be like “do it again or I am outta here”

And of course I say this as a Johnlock and Sheriarty shipper, although many people apparently were into these scripts….