As an healing persecutor / perse-protector, literally fuck that one blog

Are you kidding me? No system accountability? Pathetiiccccc.

!Abuser Based Vent, Read with Caution!

Wondering why we have so many ppl then recalling our abusers tell us to put a persecutor through the trauma of THEIR host, after like months of venting abt how fucked up and traumatic some of the in-sys experiences said host went thru

Idk man. The persecutor also simply stood up for everyone in-sys and pointed out how they seemed to make everything abt them, and showing how people were afraid to speak up against them.. IDK MAN.

The fact that Onyx is still standing to this day fucking shocks me- the fact I'M still standing to this day shocks me too. After dealing with several people who prey on me and my mental vulnerabilities, I'm still standing.

Get fucked, if you claim to be over a thousand years old in headspace then date 13-14 year old in their headspace maybe somethings wrong with you. Maybe u should get that checked out. Idk. Get on my DNI, you abusive will-i-wont-i groomer.

Would hand their username out to get ppl to block them but I know some ppl are gonna attack them so gotta stay quiet!

-Cometose (☄️)

MoonKnight’s Alters (that we know of)

Disclaimer: This is from my own research. I don’t have DID, but this is my view on the identities we’re seeing in Ep. 5. I have known a little about this disorder for a couple of years— I consider mental health an important topic. I am not claiming to be an expert, but I’m hoping I can bring a little bit of knowledge to anyone unfamiliar with how this disorder works.

Marc Spector is the core alter and protector/memory holder. Protectors are the ones who hold traumatic memories. Their focus is defending their system (identities/alters) from experiencing the trauma. They’ll take the front during any traumatic events that may take place.

*Note: calling Marc the “original” isn’t necessarily considerate of those with DID. Its like calling the rest of the alters “fake,” and the core the “real one.” This disorder is a way the human mind copes with trauma.

Steven Grant is a fictive alter, with the context of the show. We learn that Dr. Steven Grant is a character from a movie Marc enjoyed as a kid. This is usually the case with fictive alters— they come from a work of fiction someone in the system likes. Though Steve adopted the characters name, he has his own personality and traits. They have the ability to retain memories and hold trauma, but Marc has been preventing that.

It’s not confirmed, but there’s been theories of Marc’s third alter being in the show: Jake. In the comics, he’s a taxi driver, but he is a much more violent alter according to certain scenes in the series.

*Before I go into Jake, please remember: this show is fiction. Though this is probably one of the better representations of Dissociative Identity Disorder, do not make assumptions it’s 100% correct (same goes for this post). People with DID are not inherently dangerous. If anything, they are protecting themselves from harm. Is it possible for someone with DID to be dangerous? Yes, but might I add—EXTREMELY rare. That being said…

Jake is a persecutor alter. Persecutors are harmful, but have protective intentions. They use aggression and hostility to protect the system, though DID systems usually dislike them. Persecutors may also lash out or abuse the system themselves. This could be the reason Marc avoided the second sarcophagus in episode 4— if we’re believing the fan theory. Jake could be an outlet for internalized abuse and negativity, which is a persecutor characteristic as well.

We’ve been fakeclaimed once or twice (read: a lot) due to various things about our system. We switch very easily with a lot of control over the switches, have a fairly low alter count (10), and the first “trauma” we can remember happened at age 11, outside of the 6-9 age range people always say. We’ve come to accept there are reasons for those things and that they aren’t a sign of faking, but there’s still on thing about us that consistently makes us feel like we’re faking.

Our persecutor, Debra, and our little, LED, were “self made” alters. I can’t think of anything else to call them. Debra came around after a friend convinced me to “personify my depression” (note: they weren’t an endogenic/tulpa person, just a singlet who was scared for me at the time). They told me to imagine my depression as a person. That person was Debra. After I imagined her, she was just. Always there. And still is. And LED, she made, by being so horrible to me (persecutor FTW don’t worry she’s a lot better now). She messed with us a lot in a very triggering way, in the purposeful attempt to make us split. And then LED came around after she tried for about 3 days.

These are purposely made alters. That can’t happen. So what the hell am I? Im not endogenic or any of that, im a traumatized person who exists as multiple people, who finally feels like the pieces of the puzzle of my life fit together if im a system. Am I lying to myself? You can’t MAKE alters.

Well, that is an interesting set of circumstances.

Now, we are not professionals or anything, but we do know you're right about the fact that Alter's can't be made. It's not possible to will a specific Alter into existence just because you want to, we know that for sure.

HOWEVER... Alters can come from anywhere. That means anything can be a source. Now we're not here to fake claim, so in the interest of assuming you are in fact a System- Is it possible what you personified is in fact the source for Debra? What I mean is, it's possible what you envisioned became a sort of 'character' that you split a fictive of as your mind attempted to understand your depression? In other words, could it simply be the persona your persecutor clung to when it came about? Because that would be my best guess.

As far as LED goes, as I said anything can be a source. You persecutor tried for a while and created a lot of stress from the sounds of things and it doesn't sound like you were specifically setting out to make THAT person, it just happens to be what split. That's how this reads, to us at least. In that case.... times of high stress can create splits anyway. Your persecutor might be responsible for lowering your mental health to the point of a split.

To be honest with you, this isn't something we're entirely familiar with. It's a difficult circumstance to assess from such a distance and limited information. This is my takeaway, but I could be entirely off the mark.

I hope you're able to better understand your System soon Anon.

okay, so i get that, but know that you shouldnt refer to alters as 'bad'. persecutors and 'possessor' alters are not inherently bad, theyre doing what they think is right for the system, and a lot of it is a trauma response. please be careful with your language when referring to this mf alter as bad, it enforces the idea of a 'bad alter' which is a very harmful stereotype.

I didn't! Again did you read my did post? Cause I doubt you did -like you claim. In the did post- I defended the mf and said he was trying to protect Will.And that he was a misguided protector. And that persecutor/demon/possessor -alters are trying to actually protect the host/the rest of the system but need help/therapy to understand their methods aren't constructive and often do the opposite . And that the mf is acting negatively because of his own severe trauma and misconstrued idea that he's protecting . I literally repeated exactly what you said in my did post in great detail.. like 8 times ...in the mf section. So you didn't read my post ...

And are getting offended by something I never wrote . When my post articulated exactly what you wanted (and the opposite of what you assumed I'd write). Cause you didn't actually bother to read my entire post before complaining to me about it . You didn't bother to read my post -pretended to- then assumed I said the wrong things and propagated wrongful ideas did. Then had the audacity to claim and correct me with conviction that I said things I never did. When I literally said the opposite of what you claim . And said exactly what you just said. Seriously???? I did my research and made sure I was clear about defending alters . And not causing people to demonize them. Cause wrongful/negative stereotypes about alters and DID is already propagated by media. And I wasn't going to be a part of it!

I was incredible detailed in my description of how us demonizing the mf / demon alters/persecutor alters is wrong!!!!! Excerpts of my did post to prove my point.

This is all stuff i wrote in my did theory (in the mf section). Which you pretended to read and complain I said the opposite of what I did. There's a lot more detail i went into about this- and how we should feel bad for ww (aka the mf). I feel great empathy for Will the wise - aka the mf . Not my fault yall refuse to read what I said! I wasn't ambiguous about my stance! I haven't thought of or said the mf was "evil" or "bad" since I had this did theory. Others who don't believe my did theory still still call the mf evil constantly .But I don't! To me, the mf / ww isn't evil!!!!!he's a traumatized child!

Here's a link to my did theory. This time you could you know... actually read it instead of pretending to - and be pleasantly surprised by how I respect alters and actually did my research. Unlike you- who couldn't even bother to read my did post in the first place- before complaining to me about things I never said in that did post you pretended to read.Let me guess you read some lie about it on twitter or just made the assumption I would demonize persecutor alters like most media does. Well guess what - nope I didn't. I was very aware and angry about the demonization of such alters (in popular media) and used empathy and facts to illustrate why demonizing such alters is wrong! I wrote this post not only as a plot theory but to educate others about did- who have been miseducated (by tv/film) or ignorant about the mechanics of how did even works . But, I also approached the analysis - by seeing alters as people first- and begging the readers to be more empathetic and see their personhood, emotions, and individuality first ) .Cause many people use very dismissive and dehumanizing language when talking about alters. So i made sure to do the opposite. A huge inspiration to even writing my did post was to show how the mf isn't what we think he is. Since I believe this will also be a huge plot point later and I wanted people to see him from a more empathetic lens. Cause he literally is a child who is severely tra*matized. So yeah being accused of doing the opposite -by someone who didn't even bother reading what I wrote- is angering. Sorry. I'm going to be sassy about it.

For the DID ask - 🖤,💀,💋? ~Rani @a-dragons-journal

🖤 - How many alters do you have? Can you tell me about them? Honestly, it's hard to give an exact number. Not because we don't know how many headmates are in our system currently but because we have a lot of people in our system of whom we don't know if they are alters or spirits. Most of these people are those who we know have been around since our body was little and back then we didn't keep track of how someone came to be here. We know for certain that at least 30 or so of us are formed by direct trauma, but there is at least that many who we have zero certainty into their exact origins. We keep trying to work out who originated how, but our trauma is so confusing to us we can't still quite make good since of it. It doesn't help that we can't decide where the headmates we know are or suspect were created by our issues with maladaptive daydreaming. (They're a lot like involuntary tulpas in how they came about, but the maladaptive daydreaming they spawned from was caused by dissociation due to trauma. So... mind scrabble and brain is weird.) Maybe one day we will make since of our past but for now it is still a work-in-progress of getting over denial, piecing together memories, accepting things happened, and organizing our own thoughts.   We treat our known or suspected alters the same level of respect and voice as we do any other headmate. Of course, given their connection to our body's trauma they have certain needs and require certain accommodations. Many of the known spirits in our system tend to try to help out as much possible though they are not as strongly connected to traumatic memories in our body because they weren't there and aren't as connected to our body due to their origins.  💀 - Have any of your alters ever integrated or disappeared? Integrated? Yes though only once. Kardegray is the merger of two alters. One was a persecutor by the name of Demon (how original /sarcasm) and another alter who had no name. It occurred when our body was only 14 so a lot of the details of the circumstances are lot to us. We do remember that Demon was tormenting others in our system both internally and via things he did while fronting. He and the other alter got into a fight, words were said, and somehow out of all of that mess Kardegray resulted. Kardegray himself early on still was kind of a persecutor but over time he has calmed down into more of a devil's advocate and now he is more of an older protective brother to most of the younger alters but still a bit of an loveable asshole/devil's advocate to everyone else.    As for disappeared sadly yes, though we have been correcting that. Long, long story short when we were in our late teens (circa 16-18) we first learned of multiplicity which sent us into a tail-spin of denial. Everyone tried to suppress everyone else as an 'imaginary friend" our amnesia issues hit its worst ever in our life, our depression got worse, our anxiety got worse - basically everything went to hell for several months. When the dust settled all but Earth Listener and Cavern-Risen had went into finding/suppression to get away from the self-destruction. Realizing how badly we messed up in trying to deny our multiplicity, Earth Listener and Cavern-Risen began to try to patch things up. They began to work on sharing memories, working together, building trust, started seeing our first therapist. Slowly people started coming back out of the woodwork. It took nearly a decade but we think we finally found everyone, but given how disorganized we're not positive. Either way, that event in our lives stands as a constant reminder how badly our life could turn if we were to ever turn on each other again and remind us why we have to work together.

💋 - How does your DID affect your relationships?

Our multiplicity hasn’t effected our relationships so much as our trauma itself has. Our relationship with our mother (a person who accidentally, but still did abuse us when we were a child) has improved though we still have a lot of trust and social intimacy issues with her. (But we have extreme social intimacy with basically everyone.) She knows about our multiplicity but doesn’t like us to bring our existence up. She also knows well about our gender dysphoria but won’t acknowledge it (which probably hurts worse because part of our childhood trauma was her punishing us for “claiming to be a boy”), which makes it feel like she still hasn’t truly changed. Friendship was always going to be difficult for us as it is because of our our autism but our trauma really messed up our comfort levels in sharing anything person. And a solid part of friendship is being personal and socially intimate with other people. We do have friends, one of them we’ve been friends with for over 20 years, but we find it hard to make new friends or have a lot of friends.  We’re getting better at trusting people again with therapy and time, but it is a struggle. Wishing people to accept and be okay with our multiplicity as part of a friendship is a hurtle, however.  Sexual/romantic relationships are out of the question to us. Our trauma is tied to sexual matters on at least 2 if not possible 3 different men/instances. We’re just not comfortable with the idea of sexual and romantic intimacy even after over a decade of therapy. We also don’t have any skills on how to socially interact in that way due to a combination our our autism and our childhood trauma that caused us to be socially shunned and stunted. We mostly just consider ourselves too “broken” to be in a sexual/romantic relationship outside of our own system and leave it at that. 

Extra: --I miss saw the emoji and answered the wrong question so have a freebee question answered--:  👄 - How does your DID affect your communication? We used to have the usual issues with communication between alters. Amnesic barriers between people for those who fronted and inside everyone mistrusted just about everyone else so there was no sharing of anything. Not too long after accepting our multiplicity we began to really eat away at our amnesic barriers and internally we got better at sharing information. Sharing information internally came rather quickly due to the fact there were so few of us actively around and as people slowly came back we were able to gain their trust and work though feelings of betrayal and fear at a gentle pace. By about age 21 is about when we started to achieve some level of co-consciousness and by about age 24 we attained near perfect constant co-consciousness. (This progress was greatly helped by Lacunae, the librarian of the library that represent our memories in our innerworld reappearing and starting to maintain our memories once again.) More or less nowadays every memory someone has is available to everyone else in the system without much if any issue. We still occasionally have hick-ups, but thanks to our level of internal communication we easily smooth out the occasional fumbles. It isn't perfect but we're a work in progress in so many ways and we're proud of how much we have improved ourselves.- Miushra

The Force Awakens and fairytales: part two. Prince Lindworm.

This is the second and (probably) last part or my essay “The Force Awakens and Fairytales”. This time I wanted to describe the Norwegian folktale about Prince Lindworm (which can you read HERE) which, in my opinion, is the most accurate summary of Kylo/Ben & Rey relationship. First, I will discuss a theoretical framework and concepts that I will need to conduct proper analysis of the parallels between TFA and “Prince Lindworm”. But don’t get discouraged! Throughout this essay I will continuously get back to the movie.

Some time ago Pablo Hidalgo tweeted that „long time ago in a galaxy far away” should be read as a begenning of a fairy tale. Surely it means more than just a fact that every movie in Star Wars trilogies is similar to popular tales like Snow White or the Beauty and the Beast. A myth or a folktale is, as Karen Armstrong describes it “in some sense is an occurrence that happened once and happens over and over again”, because it takes place inside each of us when we read, adapt and reenact it. “Mythology, just like poetry and music, should open us to a sense of wonder, even in the face of death or a threat of annihilation.”

This notion reminds me of your posts that I see frequently on my dash: those where you described how reylo helps you in dealing with difficulties, how you find yourself in various traits displayed by the characters, how they can voice your feelings and thoughts. Because every fairytale has also a therapeutic aspect, which manifests itself in the said sense of wonder, described by Rudolf Otto as a numinotic experience. Numinosum is an encounter with Mysterium tremendum et fascinans:

Mysterium which is a source for the English word “mystery” has its roots in Greek “mysterion” which originates from “myein” which can be traced in “mustism”, a condition in which a person is deprived of an ability to speak. Mysterium is a superhuman revelation which we experience in silence because it is both tremendum, as you can guess – tremendous, terrible – and fascinans, fascinating. Igen wrote:

“Our religions and psychotherapies offer frames of reference for processing unbearable agonies, and perhaps, also, unbearable joys. At times, art or literature brings the agony-ecstasy of life together in a pinnacle of momentary triumph. Good poems are time pellets, offering places to live emotional transformations over lifetimes. There are moments of processing, pulsations that make life meaningful, as well as mysterious. But I think these aesthetic and religious products gain part of their power from all the moments of breakdown that went into them.”

There is an intimate relationship between the numinosum and trauma, often conceptualized as a rupture in continuity of personal narrative. On the other hand, experiencing the numinosum –through physically inconsequential process of identfication with fairy – tales characters and participation in their adventures as well as struggles – is a factor that could restore unity to individual’s inner world. To paraphrase Kalsched’s claim: a fairytale describes psyche’s self-portrait of its own archaic defensive operations; in other words, it illustrates a psychological process and even though the events from a fairy tale never took place the material world, they take place inside any of us during the lecture. The Force Awakens, just like the story of a dragon or a snake Lindworm is an example of a type of story about a traumatic event, dissociation or a fissure in personality, and the need for internal integration. In this sense the only hero of the story is Prince Lindworm – or Kylo Ren, whose ego (i.e. self) breaks, or is dissociated.

“I’m being torn apart. I want to be free of this pain”

In TFA it happens when Ben Solo symbolically kills his former self and gives himself a new name. He tells Han that “his son is dead” but you know that it is not true and those two identities are alive and at war with themselves. In the story about Prince Lindworm this division is marked in the moment of his birth. Lindworm was one of the pair of twins. Cirlot writes in his book of symbols: “dual nature of twins has two sides, one light and one dark, one giving life and the other bringing death; […] However, the night craves to become the day, evil admires righteousness, life is heading towards death.” This duality often serves a certain narrative purpose and can, for example, be used to avoid the taboo of parricide, like in “Enchanted doe” where one of the brothers kills their mother. In The Force Awakens it is not Ben Solo, Han’s son who murders him, but alien to him Kylo Ren.

It is said in the beginning of the tale that “And this [that they couldn’t have children] often made them both sad, because the Queen wanted a dear little child to play with, and the King wanted an heir to the kingdom”. Then, it is quite possible that the duality of twins is used to illustrate the process in which all unacceptable affects – anger, aggression, defiance – are placed not in the firstborn son but in his shadow, his evil brother. What supports this thesis is the fact that after the happy ending another wedding is prepared but not a word is spoken about Lindworm’s brother. In TFA Kylo Ren represents the same qualities as Lindworm, while Ben Solo is a boy who was born to the light.

This is not the only split visible in the characters of the narratives. The “Prince Lindworm” fairytale belongs to quite popular type which describe the story of monsters which hunt innocent girls, like Bluebeard, the Beauty and The beast and almost all vampire stories.

Their common point is the motive of a malevolent figure, abducting and captivating defenseless woman. What seems most interesting, is that every time a vampire, a sorcerer, or a terrifying creature is both a persecutor and a savior. In the fairy tale of Bluebeard, the protagonist wants to test his wife, but instructs her how she can get out of his jail. Similarly Count Dracula, who in the Coppola’s adaptation allows the woman and the men protecting her to catch him. As Suzy McKee Charnas writes in the "vampire tapestry": the monster is a "predator paralyzed by an unwanted empathy with his prey".

The titular vampire of the story recalls yet another fairy tale, when he accuses the main character that she wants to seduce him. He mocks her, saying: “Unicorn, come lay your head in my lap while the hunters close in. You are a wonder, and for love of wonder I will tame you. You are pursued, but forget your pursuers, rest under my hand till they come and destroy you"  That's where the title of this novel came from, and this is what medieval tapestries and paintings depict.  Nowadays we think a unicorn is a beautiful, enchanting horse. Once upon a time it belonged to the catalog of wild beasts and in many works of art it is depicted as a dangerous predator, tearing animals and people into pieces.

The ‘Hellsing” manga describes vampires as follows:

It seems that in the depths of his heart the creature from a fairytale wants to be killed. The human part of the monster is suffering because of the terrible fate he was condemned to.  It is the girl who impersonates this dissociated, human element of the monster who wants to be defeated and liberated by death.

“You, a scavenger”

Typically, these women are described as virgins or poor peasants – which in the “Prince Lindworm” tale is underlined many times – the narrator often speaks of their bare feet, as in the Snow Queen tales in which Gerda sets out barefoot to the snowy land to save her beloved Kay from Snow Queen. The Lapland shaman says about her: “I can not give her more power than she already has. Can not you see how great she is? You do not see how men and animals are obliged to serve her; How she travels the whole world with bare feet? This power does not come from the magic, it comes from her heart!…”

Still, the bare feet of heroines or their virginity do not symbolize - as we would expect - their innocence. On unicorn tapestries there is often a scene in which a unicorn sleeps in a woman's embrace, and then the hunter's arrows reach him. In this situation, the victim puts her persecutor in a mortal danger. Similarly, Rey is “no one”, lowly scavenger from a desert planet, uncivilized and uneducated. But she is the one who brings the prince to his knees.

At the end of the story, it is said: " No bride was ever so beloved by a King and Queen as this peasant maid from the shepherd’s cottage. There was no end to their love and their kindness towards her: because, by her sense and her calmness and her courage, she had saved their son, Prince Lindworm”. Stories about young men tell about their courage that helped them in the process of becoming a hero; correspondingly, the girl from “Prince Lindworm” is not fearless, but brave when she decides to oppose the hideous snake, or, in case of Rey, to defy someone who might as well be a monster under his mask. When the girl says "Prince Lindworm, slough a skin!" (just like Rey when she wants Kylo to take his helmet off) he replies, " No one has ever dared tell me to do that before". He hissed and showed her teeth, but the girl was not afraid (“you! You are afraid…!”) and persuaded him to do as she commanded. At first we do not know if Lindworm, outraged by her impudence, will not eat her alive, but there is  this part of Lindworm which wants to obey and – by revealing his weakness to the girl – make him mortal, easy to hurt. And indeed, "And there was nothing left of the Lindworm but a huge thick mass, most horrible to see. Then the girl seized the whips, dipped them in the lye, and whipped him as hard as ever she could. Next, she bathed him all over in the fresh milk. Lastly, she dragged him on to the bed and put her arms round him. And she fell fast asleep that very moment. "

As it has been said, girl’s compassion is the key to Lindworm's transformation but before this act is completed, "the girl confronts Lindworm with his violence on his own terms." Only after reflecting and recognizing his - and consequently her own - destructiveness and aggression (just the way Rey did during the duel on Starkiller Base), the prince-monster is bathed in milk – which symbolizes the milk of his mother – and can be born anew – so he can lay in the arms of woman. Bettelheim said: "If we do not want to be ruled and - in extreme cases – torn apart by our ambivalences, we must recognize them, deal with them in a constructive manner and reconcile with ourselves and our personalities."

Her grief is nothing more but the mercy shown to a monster by a man in him. It is then that the integration of his "ego" with the numinosum happens. As Anna Freud wrote, "The most pressing task of man is to resurrect what he has annihilated in a defensive reaction, i.e. recreate what has been repressed, return to the previous place what has been displaced what he moved, to return to the old place, and integrate what he dissociated.”

 It seems that Ben Solo has a lot work to do! ;)

re: system resets

So, we've said from the start of our blog that we don't support the idea that resets are a thing, but here's why. There's probably even more to be said, so comments are welcome!

1) Before we even go into the impossibility of it, it's abusive. The concept of a system reset is purposefully "hard-resetting" an entire system. Previous members are lost, and the brain makes new ones. We honestly don't think an entire system would consent to that? It'd be essentially death. That's really frightening. If resets were possible, how would you feel as a headmate if someone else could just erase your existence? Like you weren't a living being with a right to your own autonomy? 

We unfortunately saw this first hand. A very long time ago, when the concept of a reset was introduced, our persecutor immediately tried. Nothing happened, but it was still frightening.

2) People who say they've performed resets are most likely mistaken. What's more plausible:

Shutdowns. It's entirely likely they actually experienced something we've seen called a "system shutdown," which is when something (stressful/traumatic) destroys system functioning. Unintentional integration, dormancy, dissipation, probably internal deaths* occur, and any "survivors" feel incredibly disconnected from the rest or might remain dormant/form new identities and generally change. Dissociative barriers get screwed up, and everything gets very messy. This is what we hear described most often by people who use the term "reset."**

I don't think they quite understand what's occurred, and it ends up harming other systems because it continues the idea that Point 1 is a valid and acceptable (not to mention possible!) idea and headmates are more like playthings than actual people in a bad situation, like in 2.

3) There's no evidence or sources. Even for the most mocked parts of being multiple, there's some kind of evidence somewhere for others experiencing it. Resets were "coined" by the blog thatmultiplefeel. No one has been able to find evidence of this being an actual thing beyond TMF's account and one anon, who very well could've been mistaken like on the above point.

Things TMF also claimed/did: schizophrenia can cause a system, so can OCD, you can make a system by "sheer will alone", suggested yelling, insulting, pushing and otherwise abusing a crying headmate who wouldn't leave front until they went back inside...

I don't feel comfortable trusting anything TMF spawned, honestly. You can click that text for a more in-depth explanation of what's wrong with their content written by @whynot-dissociativedegu.

We have no idea what's actually going on in systems who proudly claim to have reset, but we hope everyone's goddang okay.

*Yes, death. The idea that headmates can't die is bull, but we'll discuss that another time. 

**Did we describe this right? We were having a lot of trouble getting our words to work, so advice is appreciated. 

- Homebase System