#and Helluva just so happens to be an indie show on YouTube
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So uh... what are some animated indie stuff that you like to watch?
For me its satina, humans b gone, and the june archives (technically an arg but ehh)
LACKADAISY.
Yeah, it's just a pilot. I have to admit I don't watch a lot of indie animation (hard for me to get into new things; I was technically never in the Helluva fandom either, my friend just wrote a lot about it so I followed along the first season). But I've been a fan of this webcomic for the past few years, so latest pointless drama aside, I'll stick up for that one until my dying breath. It's a goddamn masterpiece, I'm super happy that the Backerkit has made two million, and I remain hyped as all hell for the first season.
I also simp really hard for one of the characters. Crushes tend to help me stick around.
I've watched the Satina pilot and the first episode, though it was a long while back. I think I enjoyed it. Has any more of it come out yet?
#asks answered#is Salad Fingers indie animation? I've watched all of Salad Fingers to date#then again I'm not really ''into'' that either. though it's fascinating in a gross horrific way (complimentary)#I've always been into more studio-made stuff. WOY. Invader Zim. Gravity Falls. Villainous before the first season#not that it fell off after that I just never got around to watching it#I'm kinda lazy when it comes to new media hahah#I guess you wouldn't call Happy Tree Friends indie either? though with that one I was more about fanon than canon#I apologize if this is an underwhelming answer. I tend to hyperfixate on a select few completely unrelated things#and Helluva just so happens to be an indie show on YouTube#I think I also watched- CLIFFSIDE. The Cliffside pilot. that never became anything either huh#I've seen some nice opinions around on Long Gone Gulch so maybe I'll give that a shot too#aforementioned friend is into Murder Drones nowadays. which also is famously great. I'll have to check it out#and add to that the stuff you mentioned#see this is why I never get around to anything. my fun-things-to-watch list is unfathomably long and I get choice paralysis#admin talks
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I decided to watch helluva boss and imma do 2 separate posts for seasons 1 and two (why did I write it like that…?)
Season one
God I love this show. The writing is way more my speed than Hazbin hotel on Amazon, I enjoyed the writing in the pilot, but once Amazon took over the humor just didn’t really land for me, and tbh the plot took over and I started focusing more on that, and in general I’m more partial to the rapid fire YouTube dry comedy and this sentence is a friggin mess- I found HB SO FREAKIN FUNNY
Dude when he goes “FUCK, a new hole” I lost it
“Just try and sue us”
“We’re rich and we’re hot”
“I can just buy all the things!”
“You should commit die”
“Hehe, Trumpet!”
These are just my kinda lines, I don’t know how to explain it, I was wheezing all throughout the season
The music OH LORD when I say I’ve listened to stolas’s lullabye, lulu land, cotton candy, and house of ozmodius like 100000 times I’m… exaggerating but like you get the point the music here is friggin fantastic I also really like how a lot of the music is diegetic, I think that’s a fun touch. I don’t remember whether this is the case in Hazbin, but in this one it was like… I don’t know, it made sense that they were singing when they were singing… am I articulating myself well? I don’t care, iykyk if not, no prob
The animation is great, Viv loves them spinny shots and I am here for it. The amount of genuinely amazing action scenes is super impressive, and even the chill scenes have a ton of personality
The voice acting might be what steals the show for me, idrk anyone’s names cept Alex Brightman but BLITZS VA NEEDS AN AWARD, also slight tangent but I don’t know what it is with stolas’s va but he sounds a lot like a bird in the same sense that Gary Oldman sounded a lot like a bird in Kung Fu Panda 2, what is it that casting directors recognize in actors that screams bird?! Because both of these men are just SO BIRD DOES ANYONE GET WHAT I MEAN moving on, Ozzie’s voice was also effing PERFECT it slid silkily over me like… silk butter or smtg it was the perfect lust voice, I loved it. Everyone else was also great, but they were extra great.
It was also just so fun? Like in hazbin there’s very little just… shenanigans to enjoy, nothing wrong with that because it’s not that type of show, whereas this season is jam packed with them. Like I’ve heard that everyone hated episode 4, but like I don’t know I loved it😆 I just found it to be good old fashioned chicanery, and I liked the chaos and stupidity of it, made for some entertaining TV. This story engine is just mad entertaining for me.
I also enjoyed the writing of most of the characters (Millie, Moxxie, Loona, and Octavia still leave a bit to be desired imo, but whatever, they can’t all be winners and there’s nothing wrong with them) Blitz kinda reminds me of a Barney Stinson type character, which I really enjoy, and I also really like how his boss persona kinda infects everything he does while simultaneously being what’s screwing him over, his nature is kinda like a snake swallowing its own tail, which is tragic and beautiful, and Stolas compliments him well by being, not an enabler, but… I don’t know a clever way to say this… Stolas is a wreck in the best way and he just works. He’s short sighted, like extremely so, like how he thinks sleeping with Blitz will fill his emotional void so he does it but it just drives them further apart so it’s like he’s in a hole and in order to get out he’s gonna dig to pile up dirt so he can climb out but he’s an idiot and that’s a stupid idea and I loved his whole arc. Very enjoyable stuff drama.
Kinda random but whoever Viv’s foli artist is also deserves an award, the sound effects in this show are pristine and it’s incredible (yes I’ve seen the scene where the gun sounds go off a few seconds too late, and yeah, mistakes happen, but every bone crunch sounds and other stuff like that being so enunciated in an indie show is extremely impressive)
Anyhoo, very fun, very emotional, nice to look at, very funny, yada yada- altogether great season 1.
#ash#thoughts#helluva boss#blitzo#blitz#stolas#stolitz#helluva boss ozzie#helluva blitzo#helluva stolas#helluva loona#helluva fizzarolli#helluvaverse#helluva millie#helluva moxxie#helluva asmodeus#musings#season 1#testing a theory
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This might be my Last Post regarding Vivziepop
I'm just going to say this as a longtime fan since 2019 I was extremely disappointed, before all of this I started following her since 2019 and watched Hazbin Hotel and I thought it was good alongside Helluva Boss which I rewatched in the past of my Youtube Downloads bec the PLDT internet during the Coronavirus that started in 2020 was not great. I used to listen to her different music genres of her speedraws while I'm drawing and I also watch her speedraws and was amazed by the process on how her artworks was made. I even made a fanart about her for my college project
This is my fav Die Young music video that I made fanart for
Artwork I Made for Technicals in History of Graphics Subject in First Year College for my favorite artist and animator Vivziepop.
Although despite Vivziepop's success as an Indie animator and for running Spindlehorse, I cannot deny she's a very controversial person to any video or tweets about her is always related to her past controversies, while I do see that there are unfair accusations thrown against her I still wish she addressed her other controversial stuff that she didn't addressed whether she's aware of what she did or not and I'm not going to mention any names bec I do not want to be involve deeper in the drama bec I've seen there are other tumblr and twitter posts calling her out, not to mention the fanbase is divided with diehard fans, neutral fans, haters, stalkers and critical fans. Also the reason why I'm really dissapointed with her bec any controversy that is meant to call out her attention she blocks people on Twitter whether the person is criticizing her show and her actions and not to mention she started becoming unprofessional lately. I can understand if blocking is meant to avoid harassment, if that's the case, but when it comes to criticism she was acting unprofessional and not to mention not addressing in a professional manner can make people go unprofessional against the creator, if I'm being honest she needs a PR Manager or Assistant to guide her. At the end I'm disappointed, I expected better from her, being a longtime fan since 2019 deeply hurts me, for me this might be my last post including the tumblr fanart works I liked related to the show. I just hope she won't get the worst Cancellation that might make her leave the internet and cancel Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss and her other projects, bec that is the worst thing to happen and I wish she needs to step up her game and try to improve her behavior including the writing of her shows. Only time will tell until she realizes this, and I don't follow Viviziepop or Ayy Lmao anymore, and I'm all for valid criticisms for Vivziepop just as long as the people were not harassing her or sending death threats and also making false accusations against her and just because you may not like her as a person does not give it a free pass to make up false accusations and lies against her and is not acceptable, the fandom should do better. Until then, goodbye Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss fandom, I used to be a fan of the show but I cannot support Vivziepop anymore, and it's time for me to leave.
BTW the art that I made for college will not be removed despite my mixed feelings about Vivziepop it would be a shame for me to delete it with all the hardwork I made it. So it will not be deleted from my Deviantart and my tumblr post including my other Hazbin Hotel redesign edits and Beelzebub redesign edits in my Deviantart account if you guys also want to check out my work there.
If Charlie Morningstar the Princess of Hell will redeem sinners by making Hazbin Hotel a place to rehabilitate sinners and make them become better people, then I hope Vivienne Medrano who uses her creativity through her artworks and being an indie animator to inspire her fans and artists like me, but she needs to grow up and become a better person.
#helluva boss#hazbin hotel#die young#vivziepop#vivziepop critical#vivziepop criticism#helluva boss critical#helluva boss criticism#spindlehorse critical#spindlehorse criticism
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As a lackadaisy fan who dropped helluva 5 episodes in, I think you’re overestimating the effect of the fandom has on things outside of itself because you are inmeshed in it. You don’t have the outside view. Don’t get me wrong, it sounds like a toxic shit show, but it doesn’t have a ‘monopoly’. If all it took to gain a monopoly in entertainment was to have a horribly rabid fanbase that won’t take the smallest bit of criticism, the history of indie entertainment would be very different.
(TW: LONG POST, mentions of Vivziepop's behavior, also if you're another lackadaisy fan that's curious about what's been happening over at the Hazbin fandom PLEASE DONT SKIP THIS POST!)
"If all it took to gain a monopoly in entertainment was to have a horribly rabid fanbase that won’t take the smallest bit of criticism, the history of indie entertainment would be very different."
Hm...
As a Helluva Boss fan who's seen how many views most indie projects have nowdays, plus what Vivziepop did here, especially since this wasnt just about the fanbase to begin with:
(Psst. Vivienne, these people got bills and families to pay for, so maybe dont try to push them away from other projects just because you like Hazbin Hotel? You can hire other people, you've done it millions of times before- let other projects thrive, and let them have different projects so they can be successful too! Far-Fetched barely has as any workers compared to you, so maybe stop being selfish and share the load so other projects can get all the help they can get? Especially when you rush out 5+ episodes a year and treat your staff like shit? So maybe... I dont know... treat them better so "A BUNCH!" of people from Spindlehorse wont think of even having to do so much extra work, day jobs and all, when there's 40+ million bucks sitting from your shows RIGHT THERE?! There's a reason why "a bunch" of people would be brought to do other projects at the same time. -and it's not because of all the red...)
I think it's pretty safe to say that theres an obvious monopoly going on. Why else would these episodes be getting 20+ million at a time, for years, while other just as good projects get next to none in comparison. Honestly, look at how much views, how many trends the shows follow, how much mainstream appeal, how much merchandising fills the "shelves" of Sharkrobot, how many episodes were shilled out in 2021 alone, how much it dominates the indie industry, and try to tell me that Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are " not a monopoly!" Shilling out multiple Helluva Boss episodes full of softcore porn and bright colors a year to keep Spindlehorse's shows on top of the trending tag on Youtube EVERY YEAR SINCE 2019! -and end being what millions end up being reccomended. Though many people dont know that HB exists, many others do, and it's almost constantly being mentioned with indie animation while equally beautiful looking, or much better written projects get only 50,000+ views. Even in spite of Exxes and Oohs situation:
Season Two's premiere got 4+ million views in 15 hours.
While when I was watching the premiere of Exxes and Oohs with my freinds a couple of weeks ago after it premiered:
I noticed that it only had 1 million views in 5 hours, and then pretty much stayed that way throughout the entire week with only about 3 million for several days after Ep 1 had 4+ mil in only 15 hours.
While the premeire of Season Two passed 4+ million in LESS THEN TWENTY FOUR HOURS! -and the last episode is barely over it's despite being over 5 months apart. It's been a whole month, yet Seeing Star's views are still similar to when it was released and Exxes and Oohs is barely surpassing Seeing Stars despite a whole month having passed, while for Season One, in 5 months there would be 20+ million views and at times... more!
-and just to make this worse...
Hazbin Hotel.. a show with a pilot with over 70+ million views:
It's anniversary/sneak peak into the official show got only-
Get this...
THREE MILLION VIEWS!
-when FIVE WHOLE MONTHS have already passed and the fandom's still popular! While most of the previews for the pilot got OVER 3.5 million and the most popular being 20+ mil!
So it's really just people not caring to see the literal anniversary of the show since most were turned off by Helluva Boss or moved on because they grew out of all the stereotypes. It's got only about 0.8% of the views Hazbin's pilot has gotten despite the fact that people have been waiting for this show for THREE YEARS now and the fandom is bigger than ever. So even for that monopoly, it's slowly falling, and people barely cared about Hazbin's anniversary and release date reveal despite having waited for 3+ years.
So "Seeing Stars's" views has barely budged since release, Season Two's premiere has 20+ mil, but has also been that way since over three months ago, Exxes and Oohs only had 1 mil after even 5+ hours and onward, and Hazbin Hotel, a show with billions of fans, it's anniversary got only 3 mil- while the past season made OVER A YEAR AGO continues to receive views regularly. Meanwhile, Lackadaisy, had 6+ million in only TWO WEEKS while Exxes and Oohs barely got passed that in that time period (I remember it having maybe 5+ mil in about two weeks last time I checked, or even less that that.) and has been stagnant in views for 3+ weeks while Lackadaisy got over half of that in only 2+ weeks.
Which now makes it Helluva Boss's very first competitor.
While Murder Drones has Seeing Star's level of views after an ENTIRE YEAR so this is really saying something about the quality of Helluva Boss's latest episodes as Season One still skyrockets, the latest episodes stay stagnant even after 3+ weeks, and Helluva Boss now has a direct competitior due to this lowering in quality and just how many reviews are now criticizing it while Lackadaisy's reviews are majority positive with little to no hiccups in between.
Not joking, the first thing you get when you search "Seeing Stars Review" is thousands of negative reviews because of Vivienne, Adam, and Brandon Rodger's refusing to improve in their WRITING- you know... WHAT THEY WROTE ON A DOCUMENT?! The thing people have been CRITIQUEING?! Not "a personal, useless preference" but ACTUAL CRITICISM that they keep ignoring to look "near perfect" and to keep the monopoly going while other indie shows continue to get mediocure level views in comparison to Helluva Boss.
The views have been stagnant since near release. I remember seeing 17 million 3 weeks after it came out- and now it wont budge!
Yeah, im sure those statistics and thousands of people getting upset for actual reasons are "bad faith!" too. Adam- FUCK OFF! People aren't "bad faith" for telling you that using anti-black and fatphobic stereotypes in your show is awful! Also- you're show is now getting genuine competition so I suggest not being an egotistical jerk to your own fans and to actually listen to them for once before shit hits the fan and you have to further get hit by your own karma!
While look at all of the positive reviews Lackadaisy's getting!
Lackadaisy has almost all positive reviews, is catching up with Helluva Boss's latest episodes, all the other episodes in Season Two are also still static in views and Season One continues to get thousands on a daily basis, and yet is still- and I mean- still, Barely scratching Daisy's success! In comparison to how you'd think these "still being rewatched a lot" last episodes would be doing since this is HB, the monopoly of indie animation, that we're talking about!
So i'd say that Helluva Boss Season Two has been getting it really rough for the past 8 months in comparison to the success Season One still has, and even then, the first episode still has 54+ mil and yet most of the episodes continued to decrease by the millions each release. So even in Season One, the signs that people were losing interest were already there. -and Ozzies and Truth Seekers have just now caught up with Season Two's first episode (You know... the one people got hyped as all hell by but then lost interest once the episode started getting slammed for how terrible it was?) despite being the ones that are praised often, while Season Two's premiere has barely budged for the past year- making this a receipe for MILLIONS of lost views in total, and this is a fandom that constantly says "I binge watch the episodes a ton!" and yet Season One has barely budged in one and a half years. Its been in 30+ mil I think since last year... it's April now. -and they're now all catching up to each other and are about the same views, which would mean that they're barely going up by the thousands for ENTIRE MONTHS and Season Two, is getting even less because of the negative reviews from not a "useless personal opinion" but OBJECTIVELY BAD WRITING!
Season Two stays stagnant in views even after 5+ weeks and onward since the difference in views is that small.
THEY NOW HAVE A COMPETITOR! So Vivienne really needs to start giving a shit or WOOAH boy things are going to get intense!
So though Helluva Boss is still on top, it's falling over, and now has competition to worry about after only two weeks.
-and even then, it's still on top, because of Vivienne manipulating both her audience and staff into meeting constant demands and giving it constant praise regardless of quality under the threat of being seen as a "bad person" for not doing so.
Helluva Boss having almost billions of dollars in merch, 40+ million views with many of their episodes, a majority celebrity cast with little to no indie actors, Vivziepop having basically tried to put down Far Fetch from having any actual success by trying to not get her team with a show of BILLIONS of views to not work on it just because Hazbin is her "favorite project!" when these people have BILLS TO PAY and a FAMILY that can't be held up just by one project- which is why people like Erin had to work extra jobs, overnight, despite this show getting millions of dollars each day, in the first place! Yet to Vivienne, what mattered the most was her project, and not their lives. Which is the reason why she overworks her staff, and according to people who worked there, aren't even actually allowed to work on other projects, including Far-Fetched, either. While Far Fetched has not nearly as many people working on it and everything we see there has with has 100,000+ or less while Helluva Boss continues to monopolize the industry. (in case you're asking: Yes, it was also her supervisor's fault, but she's a million dollar creator, can't she just hire someone else instead of getting in the way of other people's lives other a cartoon show? Most freelancers do multiple projects, how else are they going to pay the bills?)
Yeah, Erin was lifted from a few things- but did they still have to work an extra job just to support themselves despite working for a 40+ million dollar show, did most people in Spindlehorse end up having to suffer even worse to meet those kinds of demands?
YES!
So does that make all the "Erin's not a real victim" or "Erin Frost's mistakes, as a human being, makes everything people say about Vivienne's behavior "not true" just because we beleive people who bootlick Vivienne but not people that she's hurt despite both people "only" using word of mouth. Except no, because no the ex-staff have evidence and yet the current staff who threatened to punch the people who spoke out about Vivziepop's behavior have nothing but word of mouth but we'll still beleive them just because they give us softcore porn! :D" comments now complete bullshit?
YES!
-and with Ashley Nichols in particular:
You'd think that Vivziepop would try to help Ashley... A LOT!
-since Ashley gave her projects millions of views in publicity and support with Hunicast and having actually worked on Hazbin!
But instead, Viv prioritized herself in the situation, fired all of her indie voice actors and replaced most of them with celebrities when she could have easily found other indie vcs but choose to use her status to get an actor from Grey's Anatomy and NORMAN REEDUS- and most likely will get more celeberties for Hazbin just because "famous = don't accociate with indie actors." appparently despite her main thing being "Support indie creators guys! :("
Vivziepop, again, pulling herself up while she's already been the top of the indie industry for the past 4+ years, while other projects continue to be pushed into the mud of a "cult classic" grave.
So in reality- Helluva Boss isnt "helping" the indie industry grow stronger, it's causing a monopoly which gets in the way of people's shows, their careers, their jobs, and even their mental health.
-and many people having little to no mentions of other projects outside of "Look at this pretty cool project I found- Ok, BACK TO HELLUVA BOSS AND HAZBIN HOTEL WOOOOAH LOOK THIS IS THE BEST INDIE SHOW EVAR!1!" is a literal monopoly in it's most capitalistic, trend serving, overproduced form.
Ashley even saw Vivienne trying to blacklist yet another staff member just because that staff member was upset about how much they were being rushed and overworked in order to meet even near the same demands, even with a few things being lifted since they have ADHD, they were still overworked, and for the rest of the staff it was even worse since they were overworked and bullied in order to meet the demands of said monopoly and stay in Spindlehorse.
Far Fetched got announced years ago- yet Vivziepop hasnt even mentioned it once as far as ive seen, she fired Ashley's partner and seeing how HB is, is likely going to replace him with an non-indie voice actor when apparently she could have easily kept them if she just paid a fee, when she has MILLIONS of dollars in support for her show now, lives in LA, and could easily use her platform to support THOUSANDS of indie projects. But as usual, she pulls herself up, bullies her own fandom by saying that they're "NOT A WRITER!" and "CANT UNDERSTAND WRITING!" for giving her any feedback and has basically manipulated her audience into seeing her and her shows as "NEAR PERFECT!" to continue said monopoly with HB's continous trending and high reviews regardless of quality. While other projects are only "secondairy". -and despite having worked on Hazbin Hotel, Far Fetched has gotten the average amount of acknowledgement for indie animation- Which, isnt much... at all.
Compared to that of mainstream shows, and especially Hazbin Hotel!
Yet as usual, Vivziepop manipulates her followers into contuining to put her on top regardless of her channel's ever reducing quality, and even views since it's lost millions since debut. With people constantly making excuses such as "ITS JUST BEEN UP LONGER!" and "ITS NOT LOSING VIEWS THE PANDEMIC HAS JUST ENDED AND PEOPLE ARE OFFLINE MORE NOW!"
Yeah-
Say that to how Lackadaisy has 6+ million in only two weeks despite being another show altogether, despite the show also having been produced in the pandemic since 2019.
It's been only two weeks yet it already has almost just as many views, and if this keeps up, will likely even have more than HB's latest episode while "EXXES AND OOHS!" has been only at 13+ since it was released. It barely has moved on inch in a entire month while Lackadaisy keeps going... and going... and going...
While Helluva Boss's latest episode has barely scratched the surface despite being just as new with only a month difference.
It's honestly messed up how Ashley was shafted after supporting Vivziepop and working for her after all this time. Same for all the other artists who worked for her. -and as Erin said:
-and seeing how Far Fetched is doing right now, this couldnt be any more evident of just how much of a capitalistic, worker mistreating, monopoly that Vivziepop's channel has become to the point where people who worked with her FOR YEARS still end up getting the short end of the stick or even outright harassed by her and her fandom, and she doesnt even defend them, she just... let's the bullying happen, let's her ex staff get slandered, let's her staff threaten to HIT THEM while only caring about shippings involving literal FICTIONAL CHARACTERS! -and last time I checked... going to the levels of not just trying to manipulate people into thinking that Vivienne is a "perfect little lamb" to gaslight people into not looking into how she treats her staff- but also THREATENING VIOLENCE over the fact that someone was actually honest about what was happening in Spindlehorse- Isnt exactly what i'd like to call "good treatment" of your staff since Vivienne let you do this to people. Hell- is- IS THIS EVEN ALLOWED ON TWITTER?! Is it even allowed for people on the platform to threaten to hurt someone on Twitter in their guidelines, hell, is it even legal to threaten to hurt someone like this at all?! Especially if it's being used to threaten people into not speaking out about actual workplace mistreatment?!
HOLY SHIT! Just let these people tell you that you need to do better, and going to the levels of threatening to hit someone for critiqueing Vivienne for her behavior even once and then going out of your way to call them "GLASS JAWED MOTHER FUCKERS!" is genuine hostility and honestly, I dont even think it's even legal to verbally harass and threaten people to this extent. WHAT THE FUCK?!
I looked into this and... yeah! What Monica did was against Twitter guidelines by threatening to hit people who were in the studio that said anything about how Viv was actually acting.
I also checked to make sure, but.... yeah, she actually wanted to hit people for saying that Vivienne was overworking her own staff by rushing and also having to work full day jobs despite Helluva Boss continuisly ranking in millions of dollars. Which means that they were getting a small percentage of pay compared to what ends up being used for Vivziepop's "spectacle!" animation. So this isn't just acephobia, but also threatening genuine violence towards people for saying that they don't deserve to be mistreated. This is vile.
Hell, even without those guidelines- it's disgusting that Vivienne let her staff talk to people this way and then also mistreated Spindlehose for all these years too. NO ONE deserves to be treat this way for speaking out, especially if all they're doing is saying what happened to them in a studio that they worked in, and the fact that everyone demonizes Erin Frost for a few mistakes but then lets Vivziepop's "favorites" threaten to HIT SOMEONE is actually horrifying.
Honestly.
Helluva Boss isnt even "INDIE" anymore, it just fills up space in the indie community while clearly being a million dollar, mainstream show that has Norman Reedus and other celebrities in it to give the "We're indie so we can do what we want just because we're smaller than Disney!" excuse to be assholes to other people for even saying something as simple as "tone down the saturation a bit."
It's a monopoly. A monopoly built on years of breaking trust, threats, more bullying, betrayal, prioritizing in fame over indie creators, worker mistreatment, rushed projects, fanbase manipulation, and it's why I have so much faith in Lackadaisy. It gives me hope, it gives me hope that one day Vivienne will finally get told to "WAKE UP!" through all that's been happening. That the monopoly will end, that the indie industry will become more balanced again, that freelance artists will be treated better and receive more respect for their craft instead of just being used to meet corperate demands. That hope... is why, that though I like Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, that I also wish for other creators to get the spotlight and that one day... maybe... just maybe... that a new franchise will take Helluva Boss's place.
So to answer your question:
Yes. By defintion Helluva Boss has become a monopoly. It's taking a large chunk of the indie animation industry, and the creators overworked their staff to meet high demands for it to get trending almost every year through high amounts of demand and episodes in 2021 alone. It's taken a large amount of control over the industry and it's come to a point where creators have to rely on supporting Vivziepop to even get a piece of what HB has. Honestly, how is that fair? How is it "fair" to overwork her staff and appeal to even the bottom of the barrels of trends to keep her show trending while most of the other indie shows on Youtube suffer for it?!
It's making the indie animation community almost as corperate as the very companies that caused these people to steer towards indie animation in the first place. Which is such a shame, because there's so many good projects out there- yet to be discovered by most people. -and yet HB gets the trending almost every time because it appeals to as many mainstream trends and porn accounts as possible through all it's fetish and ship bait content and mass amounts of merchandising, and from mass amounts I mean HUNDREDS OF PIECES OF MERCHANDISING every year, even after the show already has 40+ million dollars in it's budget so it's just capitalism and mainstream pandering at this point. The indie community went from going against corperations and capitalism to BECOMING corperate and capitalistic.
It makes me miss back when all we had mostly were just fun short films and play dough animations. It's like people in the indie community have forgotten why we even make all these animations in the first place.. Not just for money and sucess....
But for fun, to animate away from corperations... for fun.
#helluva boss season two#helluva boss criticism#lackadaisy#helluva boss critical#not putting this in helluva bosses tag since im not in the mood to be harassed and sent racial slurs by hazbin fans today.
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Not sure I mentioned it on this account but my old one was deleted or something so allow me to explain something brief before going into this post.
I am a big fan of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. I love animation with a passion, and have been taking film classes for 2 years now to become a director so I may make my own cartoons. I helped to fund the Ramshackle pilot (which some may not know, but the webcomic is fantastic, highly recommend it) and I quite enjoyed Long Gone Gulch pilot and currently enjoy Murder Drones. Indie animation recently has been excellent.
That said, I want to mention Lackadaisy.
Oh Lackadaisy, if only I had the words to express just how much I adore you! This pilot comes from a webcomic that started when I was like, a toddler, sometime in the early 2000s (I am 18 now but that's irrelivent). Lackadaisy's pilot came out last week on YouTube, I caught it 6 hours after it uploaded, and let me tell you.
It began, Rocky was introduced first, and I just fell in love. Rocky is such a wonderful character, a thespian, a lunatic in a way, oh I just love him dearly! His friends Ivy and Freckles? Perfect sweethearts, love em to death, but this post isn't about that.
I wanted to make this post because people are (supposedly) comparing Lackadaisy to Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. Truthfully I haven't seen any of the comparisons, only people mentioning them, and I'd like to explain why I think the comparisons are being made.
I belive the reason the comparisons are happening, even though they are VERY different from each other, is that Hazbin Hotel came first. It was a pilot that got so much attention, so much love and adoration along with plenty of controversy, but this combined gave it popularity. Hazbin Hotel got ATTENTION. It was an indie animation, but it was of good quality and decently entertaining, even if it was a bit offensive to some, but to do well you have to take risks.
Hazbin Hotel, with it's popularity, had quickly brought attention to indie animation. People started to notice that, hey, anyone can make something, and with enough effort, it can be GOOD! And with that, animators started taking risks. They decided to risk putting time, effort, money, everything they had into making a pilot, just one, but one would be enough, one is all they needed, because now indie animators had people's attention. People wanted more. More unique, fun shows made by people who would put in the effort, the soul needed to make something good. Streaming service don't do that anymore. They want to play it safe, stick to what we know, which is why there are so many ugly, low quality adult animations, but nothing as good as Lackadaisy.
Hazbin Hotel, though fairly controversial, brought indie amination out of the dark and into the spotlight. It paved the way for animators to make something they have always wanted to make but were to afraid to do, or to even make something new they never would have thought about if it weren't for the sudden love indie animation was receiving.
Another thing, I noticed people calling Hazbin Hotel "bad" animation wise, and I'd like to add: it's not. It isn't bad, it's just not to some folk's preferences, and that's okay. Hazbin Hotel's pilot was sharp, fast, a little strange, but it wasn't bad. The animation to me feels more modern, like they were Taki g advantage of what you can do with computers in animation now, meanwhile Lackadaisy feels nostalgic, smooth, soft, comforting, like the old hand-drawn new frame every time old Disney type animation, and of course that's going to recieve more positive feedback, nostalgia and comfort always do.
All of the indie pilots you see on YouTube are good in their own way. Hazbin Hotel was so good it got picked up by A24 and is therefore no longer indie! Each show, each pilot, has been excellent in their own ways, and each one deserves all the love it can get. We should all stop worrying about which is better, which might be too offensive, and focus on which ones we like. You can ignore the ones you don't like and focus your love on the ones you do like, in fact you'll be happier if you do that!
The era of indie animation is here, and it going to be excellent. Please, go show your love for the indie animations of your choice. They deserve the love.
I am so happy we can live in a time with such quality, but I am also sad that there isn't many willing to fund these creators.
Sorry for the rambling, I am just feeling very passionately right now. Animation has been my dream longer than I can remember.
#animation#indie animation#hazbin hotel#helluva boss#ramshackle#lackadaisy#long gone gulch#murder drones#youtube#cartoons
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Hello!
I'm Short Form Drip! I know that's a strange name, so feel free to just call me Drip for short.
Once upon a time, I used this blog to work through my depression. I posted about my thoughts, I wrote poems, and I reblogged other folks posts whenever I identified with them.
It's been several years since then. Now, I'm doing much better!
I saw conversations from here that were reposted to YouTube and it looked like Tumblr was a fun place to be. So, I rushed over and logged into my old account. It's genuinely everything I could have hoped for! I'm loving the atmosphere! These days I mostly reblog artwork I like, and boy is there a lot of great artwork here!
I tend to post and reblog about things I like, including:
* Western Style 2D animation in general
* Indie Animated Shows like Murder Drones, The Amazing Digital Circus, Lackadaisy, Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, etc.
* up-encoming artists, art tutorials, and beautiful works of art that don't have anything to do with fandoms I'm a part of.
* Voice Actors I like, including people like Michael Kovoch, Elsie Lovelock, Steve Blum, Keith David, etc. And Voice Acting in general.
* skateboarding, hiking, paintball, camping, and the great outdoors
* And really just anything beautiful or cute, or anything that happens to strike my fancy.
If you also like things like that, feel free to follow! I'm a bit shy, but I enjoy chatting with all sorts. I also enjoy participating in the various games, polls, and such I've seen floating around, although I don't always understand how they work. This is still pretty new to me after all!
No matter what, I appreciate you stopping by, and I hope you're doing well ❤️
#love you all#good luck out there#thank you#welcome to my blog#shortformdrip#lackadaisy#murder drones#digital art#animation#western animation#the amazing digital circus#glitch productions#webcomic#lackadaisycats#voice acting#voice actors#michael kovach#elsie lovelock#keith david#steve blum#the great outdoors#skateboarding#hiking#paintball#cute#artists on tumblr#indie animation#independent animation
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The Indie Animation Boom Continues in 2022 [part 1]
In August of 2021, I wrote about the boom in indie animation, consisting of almost exclusively crowdfunded animations. Earlier this month, I expanded on that and wrote about various indie animations, specifically noting Hazbin Hotel and Wild Card which are in development. As storyboarder Amber Avara put it on January 7, “2022 is the year of sick indie animation, let’s make it happen!” Various creators are making it happen. Due to the number of indie animated series being produced, it is near impossible to mention all of them. Despite that limitation, this article will highlight over ninety indie animated series, giving you a snapshot into the existing boom of indie animation at the present time, with particular notice to those currently airing.
Reprinted from Pop Culture Maniacs, my History Hermann WordPress blog on Jan. 21, 2023, and Wayback Machine. This was the ninth article I wrote for Pop Culture Maniacs. This post was originally published on January 27, 2022.
On January 27, the fourth episode of Gods’ School, a French indie animation about Olympian gods and Greek mythology, will air on YouTube. The series is created by one animator, Gaylord Cuvillier Philippe Libessart, on his own! In 2018, the series received support from the French National Center for Cinema and Animation, which gave Libessart the “opportunity to start the production and make the pilot episode.” The first episode aired in January 2019, telling the story of Eris, a goddess trying to find her place among gods and goddesses on Mount Olympus. Gods’ School has been described as having animation as “gorgeous as classic Disney,” and it is adorable, really cool, an addicting and amazing cartoon that should be more well-known, and praised for its talented voice cast. Some have drawn fan art of the show’s characters. As of the writing of this post, three episodes of the series have aired.
Other indie animated series currently airing include Wisdom Nunn’s Bob’s World, Vivienne Medrano’s Helluva Boss, and Nico Colaleo’s series, Ollie & Scoops. Helluva Boss also includes several LGBTQ characters: Blitzo is pansexual, Moxxie is bisexual, Stolas is gay or bisexual, and Sallie May is a trans woman. In the latter series, there was an episode in October 2020 centered around a teacher, Binnie, admitting she liked a fellow teacher, Wendy. Just as prominent is Eddsworld, a long-running animated series which began in December 2004. It continues to rack up millions of views on its YouTube channel, even with its Eddsworld Beyond season, which began in 2021 with Matt Hargreaves as a showrunner.
Additional currently airing series include the spy mystery series SCP Origins, where incompetent spies try and take down villains, an adult animated comedy named Nora and Zin, and an ongoing series named The West Patch which describes itself as “a dark look at the side effects of consequence-free children’s programing.” For the latter series, at present, there have been two episodes so far. There are spinoffs also like Space Triage and The Following Call. Also currently out for viewing are the Instagram clip show Ronzilla, an original animated web series in which all the characters are dolls with the name of Project Infinity, and a murder mystery series named The Marvelous Adventures of Danny DeComp. The majority of these series air on YouTube. This again makes clear the preference of the video sharing platform as a place to share series, making it even more popular than somewhere like Newgrounds.
Official art of Umi, Port, and Jolly Roger in Port by the Sea
In January of this year, non-binary Argentine artist, Moon, creator of the sci-fi series in development, Indigo, asked indie series creators to promote themselves. Many people responded. Georden Whitman shared news about his animated pilot in development, Port by the Sea, which focuses on two kids (Umi and Port) sailing the seas to “find pieces of their broken moon, before an ancient deity swallows the world in ocean.” Matt Acuña shared information about The Garden Age, a series in development focused on “cute bugs on their journey to stop a lawnmower from destroying their world.” Andre Grandpierre noted that he is developing Long Way from DelArte, an animated series about friends traveling around the world, in hopes of “achieving their artistic dreams.” Some said that they were developing hand-drawn animated films or animated series, all in distinct stages of development. [1] Of these creators, some had some prominence in the animation industry. For instance, Whitman is the creator of Nomad of Nowhere and Acuña is the Production Coordinator for Bob’s Burgers.
There is more “indie animated goodness,” as Whitman termed it. This includes series in development with a focus on magic and adventures like Warlocks of Wrath High, Century Park, True Tail, Stars Align, Wimp Witch, and Evelynne Doom. There are many other animated series in development. [2] One example is a series about a non-binary sheep who is making their way through high school titled Sheepish. Another is a cop buddy show between an ace cop and a succubus entitled Succubus Cop. Two others, Band of Mythix and Stellapie are action series, with the former a musical series as well.
In addition, Mugshot & Pollen is about two best friends hanging out, Starmakers, an action/adventure series, is about a bisexual girl named Astra who joins a guild and teams up with people to fight monsters after escaping those who want her as a “source of power.” There is a sci-fi, comedy, and horror series with the title The Heroes of Tomorrow and a series about wolves called Wolves of Cecila. It is one of the many wolf-related series out there, with those in development including Demon Soul, the concluded series All Lone Ones, and The Shadow Marked. An animated “homage to 8-bit retro gaming” named Bit Wars and a sci-fi series which may be released in June titled Monkey Wrench are just two more examples of potential upcoming indie animated series.
The creators of The Descendants said they would pitch their show this year. The series Lumi and the Great Big Galaxy had a fundraiser while the show was in pre-production. Amber Avara, mentioned at the beginning of this article, continued working on an indie anime named Nocturne, sharing information about the character, images of color tests, and character sheets with her followers. Alpha Betas is going ahead, according to its Twitter and listings on its YouTube page. It appears that Long Gone Gulch, by Tara Billinger and Zach Bellissimo, is also going onto the next stage of its development, either by submitting the pilot, or becoming an indie animated series beyond the pilot. It’s hard to know where Long Gone Gulch goes from here, whether it will stay on YouTube or end up on a major network.
Screenshot from opening of Wild Card
The indie, adult murder mystery series about lawyers set in a Boston where “elite legal universities rule the legal system,” titled Wild Card, keeps moving forward. A pilot episode is in development and there was even a webcomic created on Line Webtoon to generate interest in the series and tell some stories using certain characters. The series’ official Twitter account, and additional social media accounts associated with the series, shared news, test animations, and music in the series. The show features LGBTQ characters like the show’s bisexual protagonist, Jack, based on show creator Alex Bahrawy (who is also bisexual), and a non-binary character. Some called the series, which has been in the works since 2016, “one of the coolest indie productions,” and “really cool.”
Since my last post, Cartoon Connect‘s series Little Ron Ron, Gotta Be Mo, Lumen, or Loyalty High have not been continued. He appears to be working on a new animated series called Kenny Quick, asking for voice actor auditions in November 2021. The same is the case for Brandon Wright – it looks like his animated series Silver Lin is unlikely to continue. The same appears to be the case for Guardian Instance. Despite this, Diver appears to be on track, as a video this month noted that a new episode was being developed. The Quickening, with a pilot airing in July 2020, and Ascendants, a series which appeared to be in development, are dead in the water. [3] While those shows may be ending, unless something miraculous happens, Howdy Cloudboy, a Western genre series with a main cast who are “all black lqbtq+ folks,” is being developed by a Black and Queer led studio named Faeduck Studios.
The Far-Fetched Show, created by Ashley Nichols and Dave Capdevielle, who both previously worked on Hazbin Hotel, has gone ahead. The official account put out a call for more animators and clean-up artists at the beginning of this year. Far-Fetched is a horror comedy about Rue Cervello (voiced by Nola Klop), a young woman who loses her chaotic canine, Kira (voiced by Jazmine Luevanos), and joins a bunch of musical misfits (Quinn, Griff, Piper, and Warren) who are part of the band Sesamoid. They work together to fight and survive in a place where science clashes with the supernatural. There are two villains: Drain (voiced by Michael Zekas) and Blair (voiced by Lauren Landa).
At one point last year, there was a post of the show’s official Twitter, showing the characters holding LGBTQ flags. Rue holds a sweater saying she is questioning, Quinn Hickley (voiced by J. Michael Tatum) holds the demisexual panromantic flag, Griff (voiced by Jacob Takanashi) holds an asexual flag, and Piper Stubbs (voiced by Dani Chambers) holds a lesbian flag, while Kira and Warren Webber (voiced by Jonah Scott) are allies. This was clarified by Nichols. The show’s current route is to fully fund the pilot themselves, then launch a larger crowdfunding campaign and merchandising to give the series “longer episodes” and make additional “bonus content.”
Presumably, shows like Satina, a dark comedy, will include LGBTQ characters. Hopefully, Satina will premiere this year. Like Satina, which continues to be in development if anything can be gleaned by creator Hannah Daigle’s YouTube channel, once the episodes of Far-Fetched are finished, they will be on YouTube. Comics of the show’s characters will likely be released.
© 2022-2023 Burkely Hermann. All rights reserved.
#indie animation#crowdfunding#youtube#hazbin hotel#wild card#gods school#disney#bob's world#ollie & scoops#eddsworld#nora and zin#newgrounds#port by the sea#long gone gulch#lumi and the great big galaxy#mugshot & pollen#alpha betas#adult animation#satina#far fetched#far fetched show
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You know indie projects should be propping up regular old VAs or giving new comers to the industry a chance
But Vivziepop instead decides to hire already established celebrities.
But she instead burns through funding which she isn't guaranteed to maintain an equilibrium of profits. Like youtube could ban or age restrict Helluva for whatever reason tomorrow or as we are seeing people dropping the show at a rapid rate.
Like sexy Loona can only fund so much if you are losing basically the youtube equivalent of backers rapidly.
So why is Vivziepop wasting money she can't afford.
At least with Norman we know he was the one who offered to voice a character.
Bee can't even appear again because of her VA unless they recast but knowing Vivziepop she will just make her mute. This also makes casting Kesha completely pointless because Bee feels like she might come back.
Like Vivziepop doesn't understand what to do with guest stars.
They are meant to be a one time special occasion so showrunners make them self inserts with no plot relevance to the overall narrative or a special character that is super cool that you can justify them never coming back.
By casting Kesha as Bee someone probably plot relevant it begs the question why get her at all.
If Bee was just a random pop star with an awesome presence who happened to be voiced by Kesha then its reasonable somewhat.
But Vivziepop just needed Kesha to be cast as an important character at least once
I legitimately don't think Vivzie even considers that any of the decisions she makes, be they financial or writing-wise or personal, might be bad ones.
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So, if you told me a month ago that I’d be making a post about The Amazing Digital Circus, I would probably call you a liar.
I DID hear of it. You cannot go anywhere on the Internet right now without someone saying “Have you seen The Amazing Digital Circus?” And/or “Wow, Disney has gotten so bland they’re losing to indie animation”
My hesitation to watch it, plus RWBY not working for me, (and still doesn’t tbh), makes people think I hate/don’t support indie products. That’s not the case. I’m an aspiring indie writer. I’m SO HAPPY that indie animation is getting so much attention, so much that I’m interested in watching Helluva Boss (haven’t had the time to do so yet). I’m SO HAPPY that there’s people who are not major corporations and executive demands control their creativity and passions, and are getting success by making what they want. It’s VERY inspiring and the rise in recognition has helped me in motivation on working on my original books that I’ve lacked the past few months.
I just didn’t want to watch Digital Circus at first, because fanbase.
Yeah that CAN drive people away from products more than you think.
This may be the next Undertale in more regards than one.
I usually wait till the hype dies down before I see something with great reviews. I did that with the first Spiderverse movie, and I didnt see it until over a month after the release. Then I became a fan, saw the appeal, and couldn’t wait to see the second movie in theaters.
And… well. The hype has NOT died. Not even a little. On YouTube, it was recommendation after recommendation to watch the pilot. My sibling watched it and told me to watch it. (I never listen to them cause it just made me think “Oh so it’s a Five Nights At Freddy’s knock off. If my sibling likes it.”)
What made me decide to see it was the news that it was MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN DISNEY’S WISH.
Like… WHAT?! HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?!
This is an INDIE product, and it’s way more successful in views and critical reception than one of THE most major animation companies of all time?!
I threw my hands in the air and decided, “Alright FINE. You win. I need to see what the appeal is.”
So I watched the pilot just a few days ago…
Okay, NOW I understand the appeal wholeheartedly.
This pilot alone pressed all of my buttons. Beautiful smooth clean animation, stellar voice acting, unique amazing character designs, the dark humor not unlike Total Drama (though not as crass as that show), the very memorable bits and lines that live in my head rent free now, the world building and the intriguing mysteries behind what’s happening. The existential horror of it all (that I personally think is more compelling than regular jumpscare heavy horror). I became loaded with questions that I really wanted to figure out the answers to. I care about the mysteries of the digital circus world, what happened to these people, how was it made, and what were these peoples lives before entering. I care about Pomni’s struggles to get out of her situation only to be grappled with a very real depiction of an existential crisis. I want to know more about these other characters and what their stories are. This is honestly the most addicted I’ve been to a show since Ninjago.
Do I a think it’s perfect? No. I have some nitpicks. But that’s where my criticism ends. Nitpicks.
Seriously, I hope and pray the remainder of this show lives up to the hype. And I’m perfectly content with waiting several months each, if it means the show stays this good. Quality over quantity. Any day.
So… yeah. I kind of joined the hype train.
It’s a real shame that I almost didn’t want to, because fanbase, because this honestly deserves the recognition it’s getting.
Seriously, to my followers, if you somehow have not seen the pilot, check it out. You’ll thank me later.
#the amazing digital circus#amazing digital circus#digital circus#indie animation#indie animated series
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Launch Announcement
When I laid out my goals for 2023 in January this year, I mentioned how I had ambitions to make a feature film called Empty Pages. It would be an anthropomorphized version of Laika and the Sputnik 2 mission, showing her fate as the first animal to ever go into orbit with tragic results. I picture it being an animated adult drama, influenced by movies like When the Wind Blows, Apollo 13, Titanic, and the Plague Dogs. I’ve been quietly planning and preparing it for well over a year at this point. I had to research historical details, learn how to make a screenplay, constantly revise the writing, design the characters, get feedback from friends, etc. With today being the anniversary of the real Sputnik 2 launch, it’s only fitting that things go public now.
The first phase of work is just about done. A new draft of the screenplay is in progress, and I’m feeling confident that it’ll be a good foundation to build upon. So the next phase of work, which I’m calling Project Star Dog, will have four main parts to it:
1.) Storyboarding the entire script from front to back, and editing the stills together into a full-length demo reel for the movie.
2.) Hiring a cast of freelance voice actors to dub over the storyboards and create guide tracks for all the main characters’ dialogue.
3.) Composing a full soundtrack for the storyboards, potentially with professional music software if I can afford it.
4.) Adding basic sound design, foley, and audio mixing to the storyboard reel as the finishing touches.
On top of all this, there’s also character model sheets to make, environments and props to design, concept art to draw, and trying to get the word out. The voice actors will be by far the costliest part, and so far I’ve been saving up my own money to afford them when the time is right. I’ve set up new social media accounts to help promote the project and share updates on it as I go. If my current plans work out, I hope to have this storyboard reel finished by the end of 2024. I’ll most likely post it to YouTube once it’s ready. What will happen then? At this stage it’s too early to tell, and I’ll be honest and say I’m not sure where it could go from there. But until then, getting a full storyboard reel is the priority, so that’s what I’m putting everything I have into.
Although I picture most of this being a solo project for now, I’m more than open to collaborating with other artists and creators to help speed things up. If you think you have something to offer the project, send an email or DM me at any of the links listed below. I don’t have a ton of money to spare, but I’m willing to work out payment agreements for anything that could help artistically. Even just following one of the accounts or sharing things around would be an enormous help for getting this campaign as far as it can go.
Online indie animation is currently in a renaissance. Things Helluva Boss, Lackadaisy, Murder Drones, Digital Circus, etc. are paving the way for a new era of the medium. Combine that with the long-overdue victories won by the WGA strikes this year, and the future feels brighter than ever for the scene. I want to try throwing my hat in the ring with a story I hope will connect with people, and emotionally resonate with them. The process of getting there will be hard and time consuming, but at this point, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Business email: [email protected]
LINKS:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ProjectStarDog
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ProjectStarDog
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMsdX2ysfKxEwCCIcYHOyvQ
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/project_star_dog
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/projectstardog.bsky.social
Newgrounds: https://projectstardog.newgrounds.com
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Hazbin Hotel Season 1 Review (Any %)
I think the best way of defining my experience with Hazbin Hotel, and VivziePop as a whole, is progressively getting uninterested with something you previously liked the more baggage with you end up getting, I'm not saying this in a 2010's angry critic type of feel of just making bad faith arguments about every frame of the midia you are talking about and exaggerating every phrase to feel as if the world would end because a piece of ficcion exists and somehow that makes the world worse, you can pick examples like Nostalgia Critic, CinemaSins, Lily Orchard, you name it, I know you have your own personal examples, I say that as someone who previously enjoyed VivziePop's works, praised every new thing that came out and for a time was excited for Hazbin Hotel, but lost interest after the first 3 episodes of Helluva Boss Season 2 because I was getting tired of the series decline of quality on the writing department and because episode 3 was so bad that I ended up dropping the series and distancing myself from anything related to it... Until Hazbin's first 4 episodes released on Amazon Prime and just reminded me that "OH YEAH, the series isn't an indie Youtube production anymore, is part of A24 now" and so I watched the series and I honestly feel like I didn't lose anything significant from dropping on VivziePop's content.
Out of the way, the biggest problem the series has is pacing, there's this one phrase I used after the release of episode 5 and is that "A normal episode of Hazbin Hotel feels like it's on 2x speed, late for a job interview filled with anxiety" it's a phrase I would say as a joke to people close to me who weren't watching the series but were curious to know what is about, having watched the whole series I think this is more of an honest description of the show than just a joke comment about one of ther aspects because the series has no patience whatsoever to introduce the audience (or at least part of the audice that aren't VivziePop's superfans who know everything about the lore and the universe the series is set in because of previous interviews, lives and posts on social midia she did explaining things to the public) to the universe, characters, etc, the series is rushing throught everything they possibly can so they get to Point A to Point B on the plot as soon as humanly possible, a speedrun of a show basically.
I remember back on 2019 when the pilot dropped there was this fandom spread and well accepted speculation that the series wasn't going to be plot focused but character focused, like the episodes would be all about trying to put Charlie's plan of redeeming sinners in practice, getting new residents and throught the series know about more and more about the main cast, what are their motivations and how they would overcome their struggles, which makes total sense when you consider that the characters in Hazbin are one, if not the biggest, selling point of the show due to how immediately appealing they are, just look at the amount of fan-content was made from before the pilot in 2019 up until now, it's only natural to think they would follow this line instead of the final product, because let me tell you something, it really didn't worked, I'm not saying disappointed fan who got their expectations too high by engaging too much on fancontent, what I'm saying is that by rushing everything to get to the battle against Heaven on the season finale ends up debilitating the characters and their own plots A TON because they didn't fleshed them out enough and whenever something important happens to them on the series it doesn't feel earned because they speedran a good chunk of what would be necessary for it to work, in the end is just a lot of dramatic scenes that are really pretty and well excecuted when they are isolated from each other but putting all together just feels like a lot of artificial weight made to play with the public's emotions without making an effort to make these emotions come out organically.
In short, the next seasons of Hazbin Hotel HAVE to be different from the first in order for the public not to pick it up on the writing problems the series has the same way that happenned to Helluva Boss.
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Man.
I'm watching Hazbin Hotel and I have thoughts.
Episode 5 and 6 spoilers, a little
1) i watched the pilot when it came out and it feels good to watch a project unfold, especially watching an indie hit it big.
2) helluva boss has been fun, even with the...er...writing woes. All the songs from HB has been great, or at least fun!
3) Jeremy Jordan has me by the throat right now and when I heard he was playing Lucifer, I had to watch it.
And. Uh.
Man, the show is suffering with the 8 episode season huh?
I can feel it trying so hard to do more than the mandatory "we can't skip this" plot and character beats, but it just doesn't have time for anything else.
No time for us to really get to know the characters (and there is such an influx of them). I feel like I need to do deep dives, find what Vivienne and her team has posted in the past for this show which...sucks. I want to just watch this, not do homework, not watch essayists on YouTube so I can be hand delivered the info im lacking...
I feel like I know the V's better than I know the Hotel...
And the shows story is...suffering from the pace. We go from six months to extermination to one month in five episodes. And we find that out in one line I didn't catch my first watch through.
Everything that happened in episodes 1-5 could've all happened roughly in the same month, imo. We are missing so much time.
Yes, in episode 5, Charlie mentions that the last time she called her dad was five months ago, and that was in the pilot, but... there's just no sense of time in the show. Her saying that flew over my head the first time I watched it. Legitimately, episode 5 feels like it could've happened a few days after 4, and, uh, when does episode 4 take place? Cause, again 1-4 feels like they all could've happened in the same month.
Yes, Charlie is stressed at the start of 5, but?? Eh?? She's been shown to be very emotional?? It didn't read as "we have like four weeks to execute a plan and I've got shit" to me. First watch, I thought she was just...still upset about messing up with Angel and drowning herself in her work, looking for solutions and hitting a wall... but we still time, she's just stressed and sleep deprived, not that we had...less than a month before the angels come back?
But... between 5 and 6, I feel its implied a few weeks pass, maybe? Like...unless Lucifer got Charlie a meeting immediately. Which...it kinda felt like from watching the episodes back-to-back...
There's just no time in-between.
So, the story feels very fast, way too fast. There's no time to breathe.
This show would've benefited from even 12 episodes for the season, or maybe longer episodes?
We need the characters to breathe. We need to feel time pass.
We need goofy side-adventure episodes in this show, where we see shenanigans at the Hotel. We need more of the hotel characters just...living with each other; Angel's slow but steady improvement. Charlie maybe having more ideas for rehab then summer camp activities. More of Vaggie finding who she is.
And, going back, we...we needed more of Carmilla and her daughters? Like, I dont know them? And her song, though nice... it would've been better if I knew who she was.
It just...there is so much love poured into this, I can feel it, but the audience gets...a compromise.
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I’m pretty sure we can all agree, it doesn’t matter if we like either Helluva Boss or not, it’s going to hang around until Vivziepop gets bored of it and moves on. And given her track record of starting and abandoning projects, I’d say it’ll happen some day.
Can’t say she can abandon Hazbin Hotel since A24 is involved. Hate to break it to you all but you can’t just walk away from a company backed indie project like you can with an indie YouTube project without some sort of repercussion.
Oh yeah, she'll definitely get bored with it, though who says the project has to end if she's no longer creatively involved? A notable mainstream case of this is Spongebob Squarepants, from which Stephen Hillenburg stepped down as showrunner. While the subsequent seasons arguably weren't of the same quality as they would've been with Hillenburg at the helm, Helluva Boss has much greater potential to improve in its creator's absence.
That seems callous to say, but think about it: The animation's solid. The voice acting is solid. So are the character design, storyboarding, layout, and compositing (for the most part, anyway. Some designs and boards could use tweaking). The show's biggest issue by far is the writing, in which Viv's been heavily involved. If she silences her ego and lets other people take over in the writers' room, it'll hugely benefit the show.
Spindlehorse could establish its own Youtube channel to host the new episodes, and kick off a crowdfunding campaign for the next season to ensure everyone on the project is paid what they deserve. And maybe down the road when the studio's more financially stable, it could fund and showcase its animators' own personal shorts a la Pixar. That's the bright future Helluva Boss and Spindlehorse could be headed for, but Viv needs to consider whether her choices prioritize their best interests or her own.
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