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catofoldstones · 3 months

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The bemoaning of s@nsan's loss of popularity by shippers fascinates me because iv'e seen a lot of ancient fans stance on it was that sansa's flaw is liking pretty things/people so her lesson should be to marry the hound for humility yet not ONE of them look inside the text that all the men that attack/abuse/molest sansa all find her pretty or are infatuated with pretty women worst abuse them, the double standard of fans against sansa fascinates me as they ignore one of sansa's character traits is to treat people with courtesy,they also ignore every character has been attracted to pretty people even j0n yet not one person says that hes vain for liking val based on her attractiveness, the only person iv'e seen thats been as criticized is d@ny simply for her infatuation in daario and dismissal of quentyn and while we as readers didnt like that she did that she's also a teenager(and doesnt know quentyn) again there's huge double standard for girls and boys in this fandom yet no one saw it

im getting off track but basically s@nsan's loss of popularity shouldn't be such a surprise when there's a whole new generation of readers that might not have the same readings or bias from previous years especially when a lot of it was just misogynistic undertones

Has san/san lost popularity? It’s still heralded as one of the most iconic ships to come out of the game of thrones and late 2000s/ early 2010s in general, isn’t it? And the san/san posts I see have a good number of notes, always around and upwards of 400, which is a hefty number to me. But yes, it has definitely left major pop-culture discourse centres.

I have heard a lot about this “flaw” you are talking about and I consider myself extremely lucky that i didn’t join the fandom earlier. I absolutely cannot imagine being in the fandom from the 90s to 2018 as a Sansa stan, when hating her was the norm. I was just about to bring up this point you mentioned, that all men, who are full grown adults btw, lust after Sansa based on her looks. They consider her pretty and want them all for herself, and all the while she’s a 12 year old.

“Why should I be guilty? My wife wants no part of me, and most especially not the part that seems to want her.”

Tyrion VII, ASOS

“Give your Florian a little kiss now. A kiss for luck.” He swayed toward her. Sansa dodged the wet groping lips, kissed him lightly on an unshaven cheek, and bid him good night. It took all her strength not to weep.”

Sansa IV, ACOK

And these are just two people, with one out of many such instances each, among a hoard of men who think of her like that. A very simple answer to all of this is misogyny, in and out of the universe. Of course the entire san/san fandom has no hive mind, they were apparently the first ones to come up with the qitn Sansa theory while also coming up with the cottage theory, but shipping a 12 year old with a grown man who almost raped her at knifepoint is an open letter invitation for haters to find a settling point for making sansa suffer without actually getting called out for it. It becomes such a perfect cover for actively hating a 12 year old because even the haters realise how insane that actually is.

I think the “flaw rectification” argument was birthed to fuse the thought that yes, sansa did bad things, here’s how we can still enjoy her character while the undercurrent of unfounded hatred runs through the ship while we conveniently never acknowledge it. Obviously new readers came along who had never interacted with the fandom and realised “hey, what the fuck?” and had a different opinion of “that’s a defenceless 12 year old girl who actually did nothing wrong”. I’m sure there were voices who expressed such opinions before but were silenced. Internet is such a friendly place after all.

The “courtesy” thing is so true. She literally has no option but to respond the way she does. One wrong word and she might get beaten or killed. That girl is terrified and only trying to survive. Considering Sansa’s action as anything but survival mechanism is so superficial. This is so analogous to how women today are polite to men while because they’re scared that the men might hurt them/kill them. It’s the same shit, times ten, with Sansa. This also goes for when San/dor catches her during the battle of black water and demands a “song” from her (which is a thinly veiled euphemism for rape), and Sansa sings him a hymn of Mother’s mercy as a way to protect herself.

As for the Dany thing, I just want to say, what exactly is wrong about a teenage girl having a crush? Why is she termed as “lovesick” and “stupid” and “annoying” anytime she shows any interest in a guy? And it’s always the dudebros screaming this the loudest. Obviously, Daario is not a good choice and Dany herself acknowledges that.

“Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved. If I gave up my crown, he would not want me.”

Daenerys VII, ADWD

I mean, the other shoe will definitely drop with this guy but this the first time we see Dany have a consensual relationship, which I feel is important to her arc - the relationship and the man she has the relationship with. Moreover, she has bigger fish to fry like her governance/dragons/moving towards westeros etc.

And berating her over Quentyn? Wasn’t she supposed to get married the next day to Hizdar? Didn’t she herself say that she’s not sure if Quentyn is the real deal or not? Moreover, she remembers Quaith’s prophecy about the “sun’s son” and double backs (Dany and prophecies are a whole another thing which we can talk about later) and solidifies her decision to go forward with her wedding with Hizdahr.

“Enough,” Daenerys said. “Prince Quentyn has crossed half the world to offer me his gift, I will not have him treated with discourtesy.” She turned to the Dornishmen. “Would that you had come a year ago. I am pledged to wed the noble Hizdahr zo Loraq.”

“The sun’s son. A shiver went through her. “Shadows and whispers.” What else had Quaithe said? The pale mare and the sun’s son…”

Daenerys VII, ADWD

Although, the Martells will not understand that Dany didn’t order Quentyn’s death and might antagonise her so that’s a chekov’s gun waiting to go off. Clearly, Quentyn was clearly the first leg of a bigger arc that we’ll likely see in TWOW (consider Quaith’s whole prophecy) and a part of a bigger theme Dany has to fulfill. Her decision to make Quentyn wait was not based on whether she found him ugly or not, it was based on being right in the middle of a political crisis with another volatile variable being added that has the potential to uproot a lot of what she has struggled to maintain (which ultimately does happen). Dany does have a knack of picking the worst option and that does not bode well for her governance/politics but that is not the point here. The point here is how dare a 16 year old doesn’t find a guy attractive and another guy too attractive (which is a part of a bigger theme btw) and sometimes, it’s a thin line between misogyny and valid criticism. Let’s stop flattening female characters into digestible one-dimensional beings, especially when it comes to teenagers. The fact that they have more than one motivation to act a certain way, makes them so much more enjoyable and interesting and honestly, human, like you and me.

Let’s also stop pigeonholing (12 year old) female characters into high-school mean girl clique leader trope who is so shallow and superficial that she needs to be assaulted by an “ugly” middle aged man to come to her senses. Also, that is called projection. The character that we are talking about isn’t like that at all. But whatever 🙄

Sorry I got carried away and got angry, things like these piss me off so bad. Never change, fandom, never change.

#anti sansan #fandom misogyny #anon asks t

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princesssterek · 1 year

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Anne Rice, Gay Vampires and the Mistreatment of Claudia in Interview with the Vampire

This was my senior thesis so enjoy.

Intro

Anne Rice’s debut novel Interview with the Vampire (1976) was not well received at the time of its publishing. One reviewer for the New York Times, Leo Braudy, even went so far as to say “there is no story here, only a series of sometimes effective but always essentially static tableaus out of Roger Corman films, and some self‐conscious soliloquizing out of Spiderman comics, all wrapped in a ballooning, pompous language” (Braudy 1976). However, it is now widely considered to be one of the best-selling novels of all time, having been made into a film 12 years after its release and maintaining enough popularity to be turned into a television series in 2022, some 46 years later. While not well received by critics, audiences loved it then and still love it now. Interview is the first novel to allow the vampire to tell their own story; along with the erotic overtones of the novel is what captured the attention of audiences around the world and what kept their attention. Currently, on GoodReads.com the novel has an overall 4.01-star rating with one reviewer writing “Dark and enthralling. This book asks readers to reflect on the constitutions of love and loneliness” while another comments on the writing style, “Anne Rice really makes you feel the depth of emotion that The Vampire goes through.” Both reviews are from 2023. Not only is Interview still relevant because of its content but the impact it’s had on the vampire genre as a whole. It’s opened the door to allowing vampires to not only tell their own stories but to allow them to feel deeply.

Throughout the novel, there is a heavy overtone of erotic desire, often homoerotic desire, mostly between the main character Louis and his vampire father/husband Lestat but also with his later lover Armand. There are also instances of erotic desire with other characters as well; desire is often associated with the act of feeding. Many see the overall desire within the book as being gay, which is one of the reasons its popularity has persisted. While Anne Rice would later write openly gay vampires, this was not the time for that; instead, we are given subtle hints and overtones. After a conversation with Rice, Katherine Ramsland her biographer would write that “The new vampire is brought over into a dramatically changed existence with a gender-free perspective” (Ramsland 148), which confirms the homoerotic overtones within the book. Rice also claims to have attempted to write her vampires as androgynous and without male or female distinctions or as Ramsland said ‘gender-free’. The reality is that Rice has placed Louis and Lestat in traditional gender roles as parents while also feminizing their vampire daughter/lover Claudia. Claudia is also read as feminist through the way she is treated by those around her, in particular their failure to fully acknowledge her as a woman, not a child.

What the people say past and present

Vampires have always been seen as metaphors for various things from the hidden sexuality or desires of the author to a critique of society's values. As William Hughes, a Professor at the University of Macau, put it in his contribution to the book A Companion to American Gothic (2013), “The vampire, an enduring consensus suggests, is the perfect vehicle with which to express the myriad and conflicting cultural implications of human sexual activity and identity” (Hughes 340); vampire lit makes for a good space to explore sexual activity and identity. This idea can be further narrowed but adding gender into the equation. As Melissa Ames says in her chapter of the book Bitten by Twilight (2010), “The fact that the same gender critiques appear in both Dracula and in more contemporary texts suggests that the vampire narrative is a productive space to tease out problems of gender and sexuality, but that it is not a space that necessarily resolves such issues since they recycle decade after decade and text after text in similar fictional constructs”(Ames 44-45); seeing gender critiques within vampire literature has always been common and will continue to be. This idea was echoed in 2016 in the book Women and the Gothic, specifically by contributor Gina Wisker who points out that “female vampires destabilise such comfortable, culturally inflected investments and complacencies and reveal them as aspects of constructed gender identity resulting from social and cultural hierarchies” (Wisker 150), taking the idea of vampire literature critiquing gender a step further by focusing on the role of the female vampire.

Interview with the Vampire has been no exception to analysis or critiques of the portrayal of gender and sexuality within vampire literature. Many cite how Rice shows gender roles in the relationship between Louis and Lestat but most importantly they turn to Claudia and her mistreatment. Many see the way she is treated by those around her, including her vampire fathers, as placing her in a traditional female gender role, often through their lack of acknowledging that she is a woman trapped in a child’s body. Nina Auerbach notes in her book Our Vampires, Ourselves (1996) that Rice’s vampires are compulsive storytellers but Claudia never gets to tell her own story; only men tell her story (Auerbach 154-55). This is a starting point for the way many read Claudia as being placed in a gender role. Auerbach also points out how “Claudia is an adult male construction, a stunted woman who has no identity apart from the obsessions of the fatherly lovers who made her” (Auerbach 158), something that in 2013 Hughes similarly pointed out stating that “Louis’s narration, and his coda,[he] silently deflects the agency from her to him.” (Hughes 345). Claudia is placed in a gender role has persisted through time. The relationship between Louis and Lestat is no exception to a critique or analysis of gender within the novel. Most notably their gender roles are seen in the way they parent Claudia, but these roles can also be seen within their relationship and the way Rice has characterised them. Ken Gelder points out in his book Reading the Vampire (1994), stating that “Rice emphasises the differences between these two male vampires, with Louis as delicate and sensitive (i.e. feminised) and Lestat as aggressive and impetuous (i.e. masculinised)” (Gelder 112). Rice shows gender roles throughout the relationship between Louis and Lestat often feminising one and masculinising the other.

Pre-child Love

In order to establish a foundation of gender roles within the novel you must first look at the relationship between Louis and Lestat before they created/birthed Claudia. In particular, you must look at how their relationship can be seen as queer or as having homoerotic overtones. Iulia Pintilie¹ points out in her article for the Journal of Romanian Literary Studies that “a passionate tension between the male vampires is clearly suggested in the writing” (Pintilie 642), something that can be seen throughout the novel but most notably early in their relationship. When we first meet Lestat in the novel it is at Louis’s bedside where he thinks him a possible doctor or angel. We, like Louis, quickly learn that Lestat is not normal or human, he is some kind of creature. One that wants Louis to be like him so that he may take control of Louis's plantation (16).

Louis gives their relationship a homoerotic overtone when he, in response to being asked to describe his turning, tells the reporter “I can’t tell you exactly, any more than I could tell you exactly what is the experience of sex if you have never had it” (15); comparing the loss of virginity to his turning implying a sexual overtone. Their relationship and the turning itself are given further erotic overtones when Louis says “I remember that the movement of his lips raised the hair all over my body, sent a shock of sensation through my body that was not unlike the pleasure of passion” (19); again equating sex and being turned. After his turning Louis spends time staring at things like the buttons on Lestats coat or the trees and cobblestones, here Lestat breaks the erotic tone created in the turning scene. Lestats sends Louis to relieve his body of waste and upon Louis's return, he finds him already working on the plantation papers–cementing the idea that Lestat only wants him for his money. This is an aspect of their relationship that Pintilie describes as resembling “an eighteen-century aristocratic union in which the two husbands increase their family fortunes through their marriage” (Pintilie 647), though at this moment it's not yet a marriage.

In the five years that make up their relationship–some sixty pages of the novel–before Claudia’s birth/turning, Louis struggles to come to terms with what Lestat has made him. Louis often refers to how violent and unfeeling Lesast could be, noting early in their relationship how Lestat could go from one emotion to the opposite. Louis notes in Lestat's treatment of his father that “he’d been gracious to the old man, almost to the point of sickening, but now he became a bully” (23); Lestat goes quickly from one emotion to another. Louis also notes how easily Lestat is set off when he says that in response to Louis wishing to sleep alone, “he became furious” (34) before Lestat sets off in a small tirade over why they should be bunking together. Lestat’s repeated instances of enjoying violence or being unfeeling are what give him his masculised gender role whereas Louis is often repulsed by violence and feels deeply thus femisising him. Louis even notes Lestats lack of emotions when after describing his own deep feelings about being a vampire he tells the reporter “Lestat felt the opposite. Or he felt nothing” (31). Driving home the idea that Lestat is different from Louis.

In the five years prior to Claudia joining them, Louis experiences many things with Lestat from his own turning to learning to kill but never embracing it to his home being burned to the ground. Throughout it all Lestat remains a violent, emotionally unpredictable manipulator in Louis’s life, not unlike one would see in an abusive intimate partner. Louis even tells the reporter that “I had to stay with him” (35), going on to explain that Lestat was keeping information from him about his vampire existence as a way to force him into staying. Something Lestat continues to do even after turning Claudia. Eventually, towards the end of their five years, Louis finally decides he must leave Lestat when they flee to New Orleans city proper after an incident at the Freniere plantation. Louis tells the reporter “I have to leave him or die” (71), this decision comes only hours before he meets Claudia for the first time and days before they would turn her.

Post-child Love

When Rice chooses to have Louis and Lestat become fathers, she also makes them husbands cementing their “marriage” when they turn Claudia. While Lestat is the one to complete Claudia’s turning by feeding her his blood, Louis participates by having been the one to drain her thus making them both her vampire fathers. Louis is at first a reluctant ‘mother.’ He did not want to turn Claudia but Lestat forces him into it, using her as a way to trap Louis into staying with him. Candace Benefiel explains this scene best telling readers in her article for the Journal of Popular Culture² that “The whole scene reads like a couple having a child in an attempt to make a failing relationship once more viable” (Benefiel 267). In this case, it’s Lestat attempting to keep the relationship viable, he explains to Claudia after her turning that “ ‘Louis was going to leave us,’ (...) ‘He was going to go away. But now he’s not. Because he wants to stay and take care of you and make you happy.’ (...) ‘You’re not going, are you, Louis?’ ” (94). At this moment he is also revealing the truth of her turning to Louis as well. This plan of Lestat’s works, Louis tells the reporter that “Afraid of fleeing alone, I would not conceive of risking it with Claudia. She was a child. She needed care” (97), cementing his need to stay with the ‘family.’ As if Louis was a mother staying with an abuser to protect a child.

In making them parents Rice masculinizes Lestat–he is only ever the ‘father’ and feminizes Louis–he is called ‘father’ but acts as a ‘mother.’ Lestat takes on a more traditional masculine father role when Louis tells us that he “was loving to her, proud of her beauty, anxious to teach her that we must kill to live and that we ourselves could not die” (97). He is excited to teach her to kill, to be aggressive–traits that can be seen as more masculine. Louis takes on a more feminine or motherly role in that he is the one to educate her on things like “mortal creations”, poetry, music, and books (100), teaching her softer life skills that are seen as more feminine. While Louis’s dedication and attachment to Claudia can be viewed as ‘motherly instinct,’ you could also argue that it is simply parental the way he wants to protect her and keep her close throughout the novel, though it’s the juxtaposition of Lestat's masculine traits that give Louis’s a more ‘motherly’ feel. Louis even tells the reporter “At first, I thought only of protecting her from Lestat. I gathered her into my coffin every morning and would not let her out of my sight with him if possible. This was what Lestat wanted, and he gave little suggestions that he might do her harm” (97), implying Louis is a ‘mother’ protecting their child from an abusive ‘father’–Lestat. The three spend some sixty-five years living together as a family before tensions arise. Before their family comes apart, Louis continues to try to keep himself isolated from Lestat, now having Claudia join him when she is not off-killing with Lestat. Louis explains to the reporter that “there was no quarreling. We kept to ourselves (...) Claudia and I pursued our natural tastes and Lestat went about his lavish acquisitions” (104).

When tensions between Claudia and Lestat begin to rise so do tensions with Louis and Lestat. Lestat is frustrated with Claudia ignoring him or as Louis tells the reporter “she grew cold to Lestat” (105). This leads to Lestat lashing out at Louis after Louis attempts to stop him from lashing out at Claudia and later to another argument. An argument where Louis cements seeing himself as Claudia’s mother telling the reporter “ ‘What’s the matter with her!’ he [Lestat] flared at me, as though I’d given birth to her and must know” (105). It’s in the issues or tensions that we can once again see the relationship between Louis and Lestat as abusive. Particularly with Louis as the victim and Lestat as the abuser; this is one of the main ways that Rice has applied gender roles to their relationship. She makes the relationship reminiscent of a heterosexual one by making Louis the ‘mother’ figure to Claudia. This is shown subtly when after Claudia tells Louis they must leave Lestat they begin to plan their escape (118-119). Louis explains to the reporter that before now he’d “grown accustomed to him, as if he were a condition of life itself” (118). Louis had grown complacent in the relationship content to keep himself and Claudia from Lestat but never leaving. Louis goes on to explain that while he planned to buy their freedom (119) he “did not believe it would be possible to escape him [Lestat]” (119); reminiscent of the emotions a victim planning their own escape may feel.

Louis’s ‘motherly’ instinct is seen again towards the end of the novel when the Theater Des Vampires come to collect Louis, Claudia, and Madeliene for trial. Louis tells the reporter that “the instinct to protect Madeleine and Claudia was overpowering” (294), he also attempts to bargain with Lestat for her life saying to him “ ‘You let her go, you free her…and I will…I’ll return to you’ ”(296). In both of these cases, Louis is attempting to protect Claudia the way a mother or parent would. In the second instance, Louis even attempts to stand up to Lestat as a means to protect Claudia or at the very least justify her actions against him by telling the others “how you treated us, that we didn’t know the laws, that she didn’t know of other vampires’ (296); he is attempting to get Lestat to own to his part in Claudia’s attempting to kill him, to admit to abusing his power over them.

Claudia as treated by her ‘fathers’

It’s not until Claudia has lived with Louis and Lestat for over sixty-five years that Loius begins to acknowledge that she is in fact not a child but a woman trapped in the body of a child remarking to Lestat that “She’s not a child any longer,[...] I don’t know what it is she’s a woman” (105). Louis only begins to realize this after she has been ignoring Lestat, resenting him for being her “father.” Both men realize that she is grown again only after she begins to question her origins and subsequently wants to leave Lestat to free them from him saying to Louis “And we’ve been his puppets, you and I; [...]. Now’s time to end it, Louis. Now’s time to leave him”(118). Claudia tells Louis that she will kill Lestat to free them of him. Not because she believes it’s the only way to free them but because she wants to, she repeatedly tells Louis “ ‘I can kill him. (...) I want to kill him. I will enjoy it!’ ” and “ ‘I want him dead and will have him dead. I shall enjoy it’ ” (124). They proceed to argue over if Lestat even can be killed and after she comments she may inherit Lestats power after killing him, Louis becomes angry. He tells the reporter “ ‘I was enraged now. I rose suddenly and turned away from her’ ” (124) but he quickly reverts back to seeing her as childlike in her innocence, seeing her wanting to be free of Lestat like a child throwing a tantrum and making idle threats. It's not until she attempts to kill Lestat that he again sees her as a woman though it is at the expense of also being repulsed by her. After Claudia kills Lestat, Louis tells the reporter “I turned away from her. I was unable to look at her (...) I would not look at her (...) I couldn’t stand the sight of her” (139-140). Though once Claudia shows distress at Louis's reaction he reverts back to treating her like a child rocking her as she cries in his arms.

Lestat never sees Claudia as a woman or an adult; to him, she is simply a means to keep Louis with him, and as a toy or as Lestat calls her a “doll” for him and Louis to play with. Lorna Jowett points this out in her article “ ‘Mute and Beautiful’: The Representation of the female vampire in Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire”, telling readers that “In neither case is Claudia of importance for herself; rather she is simply an object to be used in the struggle/relationship between two male vampires” (Jowett 56). Lestat eventually comes to see Claudia as a child, his and Louis, but by the end of the novel he sees her as the enemy and never does he view her as a woman.

Throughout the novel both Louis and Lesta refer to Claudia as a doll; Louis often refers to her by material things as well. After first presenting the idea of turning Claudia Lestat even tells Louis to “think of all the pretty dresses we could buy for her” (75). Louis even goes as far as explaining that after her turning Lestat hired dress and shoemakers to outfit Claudia; that he “played with her as if she were a magnificent doll, and I played with her as if she were a magnificent doll (99). Both men also treat her like a doll up until she begins to ask questions often dressing her and doing her hair. Katherine Ramsland notes in the book The Vampire Companion⁴ that “Lestat and Louis treat Claudia like a doll, despite the fact that her mind matures into that of an intelligent, assertive, and seductive woman” (Ramsland 69); even after her maturing they continue to treat her as a doll. Louis further feminizes Claudia by placing emphasis on more material items like her clothes and hair. Gabriella Jonsson says this well when in her article for the Journal of the Fantastic in the Arts³ she claims “Claudia’s “feminity” is expressed only through clothes and hair, making her gender identity fluid, easily disruptible” (42). Louis often refers to Claudia's dresses, hair ribbons, or even her blonde hair as a way to not only give her physical description but to emphasize her femininity and adolescence. As we know from Louis she is often dressed in colorful puffed sleeves, hair ribbons, and slippers like you might see a doll wearing. Even in her death, Claudia is defined by material things, Louis knows she is dead after seeing not only Lestat holding her yellow dress and her golden hair.

Claudia as perceived by others

Other vampires aside from Louis and Lestat tend to overlook Claudia, something Louis notes when telling the story of his and Caludia’s first night with the Theater Vampires, stating to the interviewer “Knowing what I also knew and what they [the female vampires] seemed unable to grasp: that a woman’s mind as sharp and distinct as their own lived within that small body” (243).The other female vampires Estelle and Celeste– the only two to get named– take an interest in Claudia’s beauty, having her flaunt her looks the first night they meet. Though they quickly reveal their true feelings towards Claudia, Estelle tells her in front of the other vampires that “black was the color for a vampire’s clothes, that Claudia’s lovely pastel dress was beautiful but tasteless” (244) causing everyone to laugh at her. Louis also notes that Celeste appears to not like Claudia early on when in response to a question she asks he claims “her [Celeste’s] eyes reflected a certain contained hostility” (244) only further cementing the notion that these two vampires do not like Claudia. The other vampires like Santiago see her as neither child nor vampire. To them, she is simply a toy, something they can play with to soothe their boredom and allows them to indulge in their cruel nature. They do not see her as an equal which could be because she appears as a child but they feel the same lack of intellectual interest in Louis, who is only saved from being their target by Armand's interest in him. Armand overlooks her simply because he has no interest; he is more concerned with getting Louis to leave Paris with him, to become his companion. Ultimately Armand has no personal feelings about Claudia only seeing her as an obstacle to getting Louis, something Claudia is aware of. She tells Louis after their first meeting with him, “Do you know what he said….that I should die'' (249), explaining to Louis after that “He would have you, and he would not have me stand in the way” (250). Armand notes to Louis that it was cruel of them to turn Claudia seeing as she will never be a full woman, that is a woman who has reached physical maturity, telling Louis that if he were in a position that required him to turn his human child-blood-slave he would not, “because he is too young, his limbs not strong enough, his mortal cup barely tasted”(252). It would be a disservice to turn him, a “flaw” as he calls it. He notes the problem with turning a child, the disservice that her creators did in making her, saying to Louis “And then there is this mysterious child: a child who can never grow, never be self-sufficient” (252), telling him that most other vampires wouldn’t turn anyone who could not be self-sufficient. Having this vampire child with him is part of the reason the other vampires have taken an interest in them, it's quite unusual. Also, Louis and Claudia are not unfeeling vampires (he still holds onto his humanity), making them stand out in a way that makes them easy targets for a group like the Theatre Vampires.

Alternatively, Madeleine only sees Claudia one way, as an immortal child. As we know Madeleine is grieving the loss of her own daughter so that's what she sees in Claudia. When Louis is asking Madeliene if she will care for Claudia he also asks “Is that what you believe her to be, a doll?” (267), though she responds with “ ‘A child who can’t die! That’s what she is,’ ” (267). This interaction tells us that while Madeliene may not see Claudia in the same doll-like way Louis and Lestat once do she still does not recognize her for what she is–a grown woman trapped in the body of a child. After her turning Madeliene becomes obsessed with Claudia, making her clothes and furniture that are proportionate to her size. Beyond Madeliene's grief-induced obsession with Claudia being an immortal child that she must provide for, we know nothing else of their relationship or Madeliene’s perception of her.

Claudia on her situation

Claudia is not ignorant of her position within her family and in the world, understanding that she will always appear as a child so no one will treat her as a woman, a point of great frustration and struggle for her. Before her demise in the novel, she has come to terms with her situation and has chosen a new caregiver for herself so that Louis may be free. Though she must beg him to do so. Louis only concedes after speaking with Madeliene–an adult–emphasizing that Louis does not see Claudia as an equal (adult). It's in the turning of Madeliene that we can see Claudia as other or less womanly in the eyes of men; it brings Louis great pain to turn Madeline causing him to see Claudia as absurd or monstrous. She must ask Louis to do this because while she is a vampire she can never turn another, that is create children, due to her size. Lestat points this out, stating “You don’t have the power. Either of you” (Rice 132) after Claudia makes a comment about the three of them filling the world with vampires. She must beg Louis to do it for her, once again emphasizing her child and womanly-like helplessness, telling Louis in response to his hesitance at turning Madeliene “ ‘Because I cannot do it.’ Her voice was painfully calm, all the emotion under the hard, measured tone. “I haven’t the size, I haven’t the strength! You saw to that when you made me! Do it!’ ” (260). It's in this instance, of Claudia begging Louis to turn Madeliene, that we can see her awareness and frustration with her situation. She tells Louis that had he waited “six more mortal years, seven, eight…I might have had that shape! … I might have known what it was to walk at your side.” (261-62). This is also where we can see her acceptance of her situation as she explains to Louis that he must “Give her [Madeliene] to me so she can care for me, complete the guise I must have to live! And he can have you then! I am fighting for my life!” (265). She points out how she will not survive this world alone; she must be forever tied to another. We can also see her anger in having been immortally bound to a child's body when she calls Louis a “monster” and in her killing of Lestat after discovering he was the one to turn her. This anger can be seen in how his initial “murder” is not one of passion but is intricately planned with Claudia poisoning him to make him an easier target though his later “murder” is one of self-defense seeing as Claudia is attempting to protect herself and Louis from Lestat’s attack that final night in New Orleans.

The other women

Women are not often seen–that is given speaking roles or even names– in the novel. There are a few like Babbette Freniere–a human that Loius and Lestat knew before Claudia’s creation, Celeste & Estelle–the only other female vampires noted in the novel, Madeliene the doll maker turned vampire, and of course, our main female figure Claudia the vampire child created in an attempt to save her ‘father’ relationship.

Babette takes up little space in the novel only being initially significant because of Lestat’s interest in killing her brother and Louis's concern for their family plantation. Before Louis and Lestat must flee to the Feniere plantation for aid Babette is only mentioned when Louis advises her to keep the plantation after her brother's death. Louis shows his respect for Babette not only in advising her to keep the plantation but before then when he describes her to the reporter as “not only as smart as her brother, but far wiser” (43). We see the downfall of Babette when after Louis and Lestat go to her for aid, she attacks Louis attempting to kill him because she believes him to be “from the devil” (65). The last time Babette is mentioned is when Lestat mentions that now some sixty-five years later the Freniere plantation is meant to be haunted. This causes Louis to remember Babette, he tells the reporter that she “died young, insane, (...) insisting she had seen the devil” (130); an insanity caused by discovering that Louis is not human. Babette is also used in the novel as a tool to further Louis’s self-loathing. She acts as a symbol of him holding onto his humanity and what was left of his human life. She even validates his thoughts that he is from the devil when she tells him such and calls him a “monster.” Overall we only know Babette as the human Louis saw his humanity in, a human who descends into madness.

In contrast, there are the two notable female vampires Celeste & Estelle who are often characterized as what you could call ‘mean girls.’ They are initially introduced as part of the Theater des Vampires, women who at first seem to take to Claudia fondling her and having her turn about for them (243). Louis is quick to note that Celeste's eyes “reflected a certain contained hostility” (244) and that Estelle is condescending to Claudia when she points out that “black was the color for the vampire’s clothes, that Claudia’s lovely pastel dress was beautiful but tasteless” (244) causing everyone to laugh at her. We also know from Armand that Celeste is jealous of Claudia, he notes “She is jealous of the child’s beauty” (254); another reason they can be characterized as ‘mean girls.’ Overall they can both be viewed as catty ‘mean girls’ who are jealous of Claudia and only wish to play games with both her and Louis. In the end, they are killed, in fact, no female vampire survives the novel.

Madeleine is the last woman in the novel to be named. Not only does Madeliene die by the end she is only in forty-five pages of it. While she is used only as someone to replace Louis as Claudia’s caretaker we do get to see the beginnings of her descent into madness. When we first meet Madeleine it is after Claudia has brought her home to have Louis turn her; her only significance is in replacing Louis. We quickly learn though that while Claudia intends to have her as a guardian, Madeleine only wishes to relieve the guilt of having lost her own daughter by replacing her with an immortal one; Madeleine notes this to Louis “A child who can’t die! That’s what she is” (267). Her madness starts quickly after her turning when Louis notes that she burned her dead child's belongings and that he “had to lead her away from men and women she could no longer drain dry” (273). He even outright calls her mad when talking about those few nights before her death. Louis also notes that Madeleine had become “accustomed to dreaming; and that she would not cry out for reality, rather would fee reality to her dreams, a demon elf feeding her spinning wheel with the reeds of the world so she might make her own weblike universe” (273); he gives his explanation for what was happening to Madeleine. In the end, Madeliene is only remembered by Louis not only for her madness but for her cries as the Theater Vampires took them away.

Conclusion

The claim that Anne Rice has made of writing vampires as being without male or female distinctions or as being “gender-free” (Ramsland 148) is disproved through a close reading of Interview with the Vampire. The main characters within the novel Louis, Lestat, and Claudia present to readers the gender roles which Rice claims to have not made. Through the relationship that Louis and Lestat share–both pre and post-Claudia–you can see how she has made Lestat masculine in a way that gives Louis a femininity. Through Claudia and her mistreatment Rice once again shows that she has given her vampires' gender distinctions. One can also see Rice’s gender distinctions in her treatment of women in the novel as a whole but it is most notable in Claudia. Claudia the immortal woman-child whose story is only told by a male vampire in relation to a male vampire.

End notes

¹ “GENDER CONVENTIONS: HOMOSEXUAL EROTICISM AND FAMILY LIAISONS IN ANNE RICE AND NEIL JORDAN’S INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE.”

² “Blood Relations: The Gothic Perversion of the Nuclear Family in Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire.”

³ “The Second Vampire: ‘Filles Fatales’ in J. Sheridan Le Fanu’s ‘Carmilla’ and Anne Rice’s ‘Interview with the Vampire.’”

⁴ The Vampire Companion: The Official Guide to Anne Rice's "The Vampire Chronicles"

Works Cited

Auerbach, Nina. Our Vampires, Ourselves. University of Chicago Press, 1996.

Benefiel, Candace R. “Blood Relations: The Gothic Perversion of the Nuclear Family in Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire.” The Journal of Popular Culture, vol. 38, no. 2, 2004, pp. 261–273.

Braudy, Leo. “Queer Monsters.” The New York Times, 2 May 1976. NYTimes.com, https://www.nytimes.com/1976/05/02/archives/queer-monsters-interview-with-the-vampire-vampire.html.

Click, Melissa A., and Melissa Ames. “Twilight Follows Tradition: Analyzing ‘Biting’ Critiques of Vampire Narratives for Their Portrayals of Gender and Sexuality.” Bitten by Twilight Youth Culture, Media, & the Vampire Franchise, Lang, New York, NY, 2010, pp. 37–53.

Gelder, Kenneth. “Vampires in the (Old) New World: Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles.” Reading the Vampire, Routledge, London, 1994, pp. 108–123.

Interview with the Vampire (The Vampire Chronicles, #1). https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43763.Interview_with_the_Vampire. Accessed 3 Apr. 2023.

Jönsson, Gabriella. “The Second Vampire: ‘Filles Fatales’ in J. Sheridan Le Fanu’s ‘Carmilla’ and Anne Rice’s ‘Interview with the Vampire.’” Journal of the Fantastic in the Arts, vol. 17, no. 1 (65), 2006, pp. 33–48.

Jowett, Lorna. "Mute and Beautiful": The Representation of the Female in Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire." Femspec, vol. 4, no. 1, 2002, pp. 59

Pintilie, Iulia-Mădălina. “GENDER CONVENTIONS: HOMOSEXUAL EROTICISM AND FAMILY LIAISONS IN ANNE RICE AND NEIL JORDAN’S INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE.” Journal of Romanian Literary Studies, no. 07, 2015, pp. 642–53.

Ramsland, Katherine. Prism of the Night: A Biography of Anne Rice. Penguin, 1994.

Ramsland, Katherine. The Vampire Companion: The Official Guide to Anne Rice's "The Vampire Chronicles". Ballantine Books, 1995.

Rice, Anne. Interview with the Vampire. Ballantine Books, 1976.

Wisker, Gina. “Female Vampirism.” Women and the Gothic, edited by Avril Horner and Sue Zlosnik, Edinburgh University Press, 2016, pp. 150–66. JSTOR, https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3366/j.ctt1bgzdfx.14.

A Companion to American Gothic, edited by Charles L. Crow, John Wiley & Sons, Incorporated, 2013. ProQuest Ebook Central, https://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/stedwards/detail.action?docID=1388810

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user-needs-new-hyperfixation · 7 months

Note

Do you have any tips for getting rid of the fear of writing bc your scared of writing the characters out of character?

I feel like its really hindering me and I just don’t have the time to do as through of character research/analysis as I want but i still wanna write them while i still have motivation

First off, thank you for reaching out! I'm so happy to hear you've got the itch to write!

I think I'd offer three tips here --

A. Remember that fandom first and foremost should be about having fun. Authorial intent and canon characterizations do matter, because the creators are also people who (hopefully!) love the things they're writing. So I don't want to like...just say "screw that!" without any acknowledgement of their passion and intention.

But at the same time, we're all going to hone in on different things in a text, or in the case of say a manga, maybe read different things from a character's expression, etc etc. And fanfiction is transformative work. Some fics are like, "this was painstakingly researched and could slot perfectly into canon," and other fics are more like, "I know it isn't, but what if the smirk in panel 3 of page 8 in chapter 29 was Character A putting the moves on Character B*??" And both of those kinds of fic are fun, and have their place in fandom!! And fandom should be fun!!

B. Acknowledgment goes a long way. Slutty (affectionate) Fanon!Albert is a pretty well-established thing at this point, but I know we can't chapter-and-verse prove it from canon. If anything canon lends itself to him being sexually repressed (I'm going to write that someday, I swear). But slutty Albert is fun, and I enjoy writing him, so I do...but I make no bones about admitting easily and readily when I'm playing fast and loose with canon. I admit when I'm being silly, or pulling headcanons out of a hat, or just haven't reread parts of the series in so long that it's all a vague blur.

Just saying, "I'm not really trying to be canon-compliant at the moment" goes a long way towards settling down anyone who might otherwise feel compelled to correct you (if you're considering writing for us though, the Yuumori fandom overall is wonderfully chill and not at all prone to offering unsolicited criticism, so don't worry too much!)

C. It's pedantic and fussy of me, but for me personally, good grammar and punctuation and formatting goes a long way. A fic could be perfectly in character and I'd never get far enough to find out if I click it and it's all one big block of text, or uses dashes instead of quotation marks, etc. Now I'm a hypocrite here, because I use commas like the world is ending and they're every joy on earth rolled up into one last hurrah, but I excuse that because I'm writing in a Victorian setting and Victorian writers did that too. So I'm pretending it's a stylistic choice instead of a bad habit. 😂 But I think what I'm getting at here is: make your fic easy to read -- not in subject matter or word choice or anything like that, but in the most basic visual sense. Make it easy on the eyes, and people will stick around to get to know the characters as you write them, even if that's not overly canon-compliant. (Just from the format of your ask, btw, I think you're already doing well in this area. Your ask was easier to read than this response probably is.😅)

*joke specifically for those reading Yuumori on mangadex

#asks #trials of fic writing #writing #moriarty the patriot

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munchbuddi · 5 months

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i wanna gush about all the lil things I really enjoy from the new Scott Pilgrim anime, but I will wait to talk about specifics because I know it just came out, but it's really good.

I think, ESPECIALLY if you are a person who enjoyed the Scott Pilgrim comic/movie in your youth, you with find a lot to enjoy in the new anime, and maybe feel a lil bit of closure for some of the characters who didn't get enough screentime in the original versions.

although, I will maintain the idea that the original comics are SUPER FREQUENTLY given a bad rep by people who read it and can't fathom the idea that writing a story about a flawed character is not an endorsement of their behavior. The Scott Pilgrim comics are a coming of age story starring 20-somethings who refused to grow up after high school. They are in their 20's, but are still really immature and that the POINT. It's not a story about mature people, and I think it generally does a good job showing that even these fuckups can get their shit together. It's a story about getting your shit together. It ends with Scott getting his shit together, and realizing he was the fuckup! How more blatantly can the comic acknowledge that Scott Pilgrim wasn't READY to date Ramona, because he was the same type of immature as the guys in the League of Evil Exes!

Please acknowledge the intent of the piece, instead of going "umm, actually Scott is a shitty dude, and the comic glorifies shitty dudes". EVERYONE in the comics tells Scott that he is kinda a piece of shit! I wish the movie handled it better, but even THAT clearly shows his friends giving him shit for being a dirtbag. I'm begging you to practice thinking critically about the intent of the media you consume!

(also, anyone who thinks Scott did nothing wrong missed the point even harder. Please read the text)

anyways, go watch the anime. Even if you hate Scott Pilgrim, the animation and music is FANTASTIC, and if you hate Scott's guts as a CHARACTER, I think you will be very into this adaptation.

BELOW STARTS DISCUSSING MILD DIFFERENCES IN THE INTENT OF THE ADAPTATIONS. PLEASE GO WATCH THE ANIME BLIND RATHER THAN READING FURTHER. (also, if you never read the comics/the old movie, perhaps consider those first. I think this anime would make no fucking sense in a vacuum)

The original comics and movie only really bother to give character arcs to Scott and his friends. I think this new show shifting the focus to Ramona and the Exes is really fantastic. They BARELY had any development in the original and this show does all of them wonders (especially Roxie, Matthew, and Lucas). I'm sad to see some of Scott's pals get sidelined as hard as they did in this adaptation (Stephen Stills, my beloved), but it's definitely and really really good choice to finally spend some time letting Ramona mature and have a character arc, rather than letting Scott punch all her problems away.

it's super meta, but I think this new anime simultaneously works as a really good CRITICISM of the surface level story of the older Scott Pilgrim stuff, while also doing a really good job doubling down on things the series did right, and letting us see a whole new side of some of the characters who basically went away immediately in the comics.

I kinda miss the parts of the comic that were very Slice of Life-y. I know it's mostly because of the amount of time they have to tell the story, but the comic was "Real World, but with fantastical rules for comedic effect" and this adaptation went full in on cartoon silliness. The action kicks ass tho, so I definitely think it was the right choice.

anyways, enough rambling. Go watch it.

#scott pilgrim #scott pilgram takes off #scott pilgram vs the world #munchposting

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awinfield1589 · 7 months

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October 2, 2023

Fisher et al. Chapter 4: Collaborative Reading and Writing: Learning in the Company of Peers

Fisher et al. Chapter 5: Small-Group Reading Instruction: Targeted Support Through Guided Learning

Chapter 4 Big Takeaway: In a balanced literacy classroom, it is important to intentionally design routines for students to follow when not working with the teacher so the teacher can effectively meet the needs of students in small group instruction so that meaningful learning still takes place outside of that small group.

Chapter 5 Big Takeaway: For literacy instruction to be balanced, small group instruction is critical and allows the teacher to intentionally meet the needs of students in a smaller setting more apt to individualized scaffolding to help students grow as readers.

Chapter 4 Nugget: One thing I found particularly interesting in this chapter was the five mechanisms of deliberative practice. I have seen and experienced how practice away from the teacher can quickly turn into monotonous work with no real learning occurring. These five mechanisms are critical in allowing meaningful learning to happen in this kind of setting, especially noting the spaced practice rather than mass practice. The mechanism that stood out to me the most was the fifth, “an idea of what expertise looks like” (p. 95). Even in college, I still have moments where my motivation to get work done lessens and my focus decreases because I find myself stuck on what expertise actually looks like and what the expectations are. I know that for myself, I work better, am more focused, and learn more when I have a solid understanding of what the expectations are for my final product and what mastery or expertise looks like.

Chapter 5 Nugget: I really enjoyed the discussion on needs-based versus interest-based reading groups. In my experience, small groups with the teacher were always needs-based. I liked how Fisher et al. pointed out that groups do not always need to be formulated this way. Even though needs-based groups are typical for this kind of small group instruction, students in mixed-level groups can still benefit from the reinforcement of individualized scaffolding.

Readerly Exploration:

For my readerly exploration, I chose an activity from the reading a text deeply section. My mentor and I are currently reading through the book of Colossians and have also been working through a devotional titled “Colossians on Work.” With that fresh in my mind, I decided to read Chapter 4: Collaborative Reading and Writing: Learning in the Company of Peers, through the lens of faith to deepen my understanding of the chapter. In using a faith lens while reading, my understanding of the application of this chapter grew immensely. Something I read recently in my devotional was the idea of working strenuously, not to the point of burnout, but to the point (and for the reason) of doing work well in order to make Christ known through our work. Crafting routines for students for individualized practice while you as the teacher are meeting with small groups takes a lot of time and effort, but the dedication towards student success and learning can be fruit from our faith. If I have the desire to work in a way that honors Christ, I then need to work in a way that honors my students, in a way that loves my students well, that acknowledges their needs, that emphasizes patience when they make mistakes, that gives grace, that extends compassion. All of these things can be found in the creation and implementation of the kinds of learning strategies talked about in this chapter so that small group instruction can simultaneously occur. Small group instruction in and of itself is another example of how the fruits of my faith can pour out into my work. Small group instruction takes extra planning to meet students where they are; it serves them right where they are and allows me as the teacher to be patient with them, extend kindness and encouragement, and use my knowledge and expertise to help them find their lightbulb moments, learn, and grow. What a gift it is to be able to serve students in this way, and the processes discussed in this chapter are a means through which I can be intentional about working well for the sake of Christ. This was such a unique experience in being able to integrate my faith in a meaningful way with an assigned course reading-- using a faith lens helped me translate what I read into meaningful application!

Included are screenshots from my devotional, Colossians and Work, and a screenshot of Colossians 3:12-14, verses that I kept in the back of my mind while reading and thinking about these readings.

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radishwizard · 1 year

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some vaguely incoherent yelling about goblin emperor + politics + genre beyond the read more (just to be clear by some i mean a whole wall of text)

(fyi goblin emperor is one of my favorite books i just also like engaging with things i like in critical ways)

i started my day by verifying at approx 4 am that maggie stiefvater named herself after margaret thatcher (true btw) so i've been thinking about neoliberalism and --

i've always really disliked celehar's letter at the end of goblin emperor because for a guy that in theory is an impartial investigator it reads to me as incredibly dismissive and judgmental of the Curneisei philosophy: like yeah i mean i don't disagree there's stuff there that's questionable but also there's some stuff that isn't re: wanting more power for the working class -- celehar even acknowledges this by saying that he can understand and sympathize with the desire to improve their lives. (they are, presumably, underpaid, overworked, and experiencing dangerous labor conditions.) (i disliked this letter + celehar by association so much that i put off reading witness for the dead for ages lol but i was very brave and read it this week and i enjoyed it. tea culture!)

(in contrast i actually like maia's interaction with shulivar -- i think that it makes sense that maia would have a somewhat naive understanding of the impact of the existence of his government and would be shocked and discomfited by the truth of shulivar's words -- so it feels to me less like a good/bad moral judgement is being passed (as in celehar's letter) and more like a broadening of maia's worldview. i also like that shulivar presents his actions as just a beginning, not an end-all to change)

similarly the plot against elhokar in words of radiance (stormlight archive) has also always really bothered me -- i know there's a lot of other stuff going on there with like moash's personal vengeance and the Diagram and whatever but -- if you have like, a societal problem (class/racial inequality) just putting a different king in power who will still 100% uphold that system is ??? not ??? going to solve anything ???? you'll just have another shitty inbred ruler a couple years or decades down the line.

i guess my point here is that it's kind of wild to me that in both of these worlds this kind of "gentle neoliberalism" is upheld by even the most extremist radicals (change for the better as a result of only a change in leadership; social change as a result of individuals in power being "good"; rebellion seeking change only through that leadership turnover and not anything structural or systemic -- and even that kind of rebellion being denounced as unethical because of its impact on individuals). it's a viewpoint that exists in actual real life politics ("vote and all our problems will be solved!") but i think it's also kind of a genre problem? like i'm very much anti-monarchy irl but when it's zuko fire lord post-canon fanfic suddenly i'm like yeah okay king! i guess part of it is being invested in the individuals in power as people with their own narratives more than the (fictional) society and its injustices (a very different perspective than with irl politics), but i do think there's also a genre expectation of a fantasy setting having some kind of hereditary leadership. i am much more willing to accept a monarchy in a book with magic in it than i am in real life. (maybe that's just a me problem.)

i feel like most of the fantasy i read is either like this (monarchy is ok when we like the characters involved in it) or has the government as No Nuance Big Bad. i'd love to read more fiction that does both: monarchy is a bad idea but also we like the people who are doing it so it's complicated. and fiction that has rebellion for actual societal change beyond just killing one king to get another (please !) -- i mean don't get me wrong i still want to read things that are hopeful and are optimistic about social change, just maybe that's like, the power fantasy of a bunch of teens tearing down a government entirely rather than just those teens putting a different person (a "good guy") on the exact same throne. (in fairness to zuko btw the atla extended lore does tackle some of this and i have read some pretty solid fanfic that does even more)

within the world of goblin emperor, i feel like there are moments that get close to the "it doesn't matter whether you're 'good' because the system itself is broken" -- things like varenechibel also wanting to build the bridge across the istandaärtha or maia being able to delay vedero's marriage but not change that he still controls the fate of the drazhadeise women -- but it could go further. i would really love to see maia having to confront the implications of being an emperor beyond what we've seen thus far: things like learning the history of the conquered peoples within the empire and having to come to terms with whatever genocide and cultural erasure shaped the ethuveraz. (i haven't read grief of stones yet so i can't speak for that but i don't think we've seen that aspect of empire in canon. also i'm lying i don't actually want to see that bc i really don't want a direct sequel to TGE but like maybe indirectly through the amalo books or maybe just in fanfic) also i think a like, shulivar pov in the style of "fantasy novel where the good guys take down bad government" would be incredible.

any way these are my takeaways:

i will read more books

(maybe not raven boys though)

happy new year! :-)

p.s. also i dont really know what i'm talking about i'm just a guy on the internet who is trying to connect dots i'm not a political scientist or anything please don't yell at me (do dm me to talk about goblin emp tho my only friend who's read it is still asleep. goddamn time zones) p.p.s. i'm using neoliberal here to refer to a kind of attitude of "a particular kind of status quo is good actually (even though at least nominally we want social change)" which is how i typically see it being used in Internet Discourse. i think there's prob more poli sci definitions out there that are more specific/accurate

p.p.p.s. if you're interested in this + like reading things that are actually coherent try this (altho i hate the title. i know here it's probably for clicks so whatever but infantilizing non-infant characters is a big pet peeve of mine. the phrase "cinnamon roll" my beloathed)

#somewhat critical of goblin emp and also brando sando (WoR) and a bit about atla so don't click through if you don't want to see that #+ includes spoilers for all of the above

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epiphany333 · 2 years

Text

I find it really weird how dismissive people are of modern readings and criticisms of classic books. Take 1984 for example, it has been analyzed in-depth and criticized by feminists for decades because its contents reek of misogyny, but people are quick to defend it. They allege that the misogynistic elements in it are there on purpose to critique and demonstrate how the dystopian society Winston lives in has created individuals who don't know how to interact healthily with people of the opposite sex. It is an argument that paints the work in a better, much more interesting light, but if that was Orwell's intent, well, he still failed to convey in his narrative that Winston's thoughts and ideas are not excusable. Winston's misogynistic ideas are never refuted or condemned, and he never realizes why they are incorrect; they just pass unchanged and unadulterated throughout the novel. Instead, as we see things from his point of view, we empathize with him because we see how things affect him, we are put in his shoes. We are expected to sympathize with him, and any criticism of his ideas is derived from the readers' critical skills than from the narrative itself because it is more concerned with us feeling for him.

We know that Orwell was a misogynist. There are countless analyses of the way womanhood and gender roles are presented in his works, and of what he thought of women in his private life through his letters, affiliations, and relationships. Even if we can't completely say that 1984 is misogynistic from its contents alone, is it so difficult to believe that Orwell's stances and thoughts on women might have made their way in his own work, even if subtly? Is it so difficult to think that a white man from a past century might have written something inappropriate, in a time when these prejudices passed largely uncriticized and were internalized by the majority?

And the defense that these works and their troubling messaging are just a product of their times doesn't work for me. We can acknowledge that yes, these ideas were much more prominent at the time these authors wrote these classics and that they probably were not completely conscious of how permeated their works were by their bigotry (because they didn't see it as such). At the same time, I don't think it is a good enough defense. There were people of all ages who disagreed with these commonly shared ideas, and who were against the misogynistic and racist treatment of other people.

There's a nice article that talks about the "product of its time" defense I'd like to link.

Maybe it's time for us to find some new classic authors we can give our accolades, instead of refusing to see the negative stuff present in our favorite dead white writers. We can read these old texts with an open, critical eye, and we can also start to appreciate classical works from marginalized groups and by poc whose stories have been largely ignored despite existing in our proximity. I'm not asking white people to stop reading their own countries' classics, but to enjoy them critically, and to diversify their reads. There's so much more out there than the repertoire white academists and scholars have put on a pedestal as the culmination of western literature, especially when some of these works have aged horribly.

#1984 #media criticism #media literacy #critical thinking #classic literature #western literature #misogyny

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cryptidqueerr · 1 year

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I posted 4,084 times in 2022

That's 95 more posts than 2021!

109 posts created (3%)

3,975 posts reblogged (97%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@drownedinlight

@ukulelekatie

@bushy-haired-know-it-all

@ximajs

@windewehn

I tagged 499 of my posts in 2022

#he lives in queue - 170 posts

#text - 167 posts

#cr spoilers - 26 posts

#critical role - 22 posts

#gideon the 9th - 21 posts

#tlovm - 14 posts

#tlovm spoilers - 11 posts

#the locked tomb - 8 posts

#laura plays d&d - 6 posts

#critical role spoilers - 5 posts

Longest Tag: 139 characters

#i’d add to this that miyazaki took a book written by an english woman who lived through wwii that had war as a backdrop but centered people

My Top Posts in 2022:

i’m your biggest fan, i’ll follow you because i love you, nosfer, nosferatu

117 notes - Posted October 1, 2022

i s2g if you’re new here from twitter you had better not bring all that over-the-top asshole behavior over here and start trying to bully our nice celebrities out of town. this isn’t like twitter, this isn’t a vehicle for your stunted rage, you don’t get to just throw bullshit around and get a power trip off being a dick to someone more famous than you. they’ve been here longer than you and by god they’ll be here after if I have anything to say about it

145 notes - Posted November 9, 2022

me every day reading a new letter from my friend jonathan harker or, alternatively, receiving no new communication from my friend jonathan harker:

496 notes - Posted May 18, 2022

okay real serious talk from your internet big sister: i really need y’all to be prepared for conservatives to retake a lot of societal ground in the next few years. there are so many younger people, especially young queer people, who don’t remember the bush era, don’t remember the 2000’s, who only see society as it is now where left/liberal ideologies really dominate the general social fabric and are going to have a really rough time when conservatives start controlling a lot of the social dialogue. a lot of what we’ve been used to being able to avoid because the really blatant conservative messaging has mostly kept to itself might be about to become mainstream. their beliefs are going to start to show up the TV you watch, the advertising you see, the music you listen to. it’s going to feel like losing ground, losing time, being pushed out of spaces where you were welcomed and acknowledged.

this isn’t to scare you, honestly. we lived through it not so long ago and still pushed through and got here, we’ll do it again. it’s just to make you aware and let you know that if you do start seeing those kinds of messages or start seeing the representation that you love go away, it’s going to be okay. people haven’t suddenly regressed around you - the assholes just got louder. you’re still loved and welcomed and you can still find places to have a home, they just might be a little harder to find for a while. but people will always work to push things forward again, and even if we lose now we will get back one day ❤️

4,792 notes - Posted May 13, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

i am here to tell you that it is okay for there to be good things in your life right now. to celebrate the little, local, personal wins. it is okay for today to be a good day for you, even when there is so much bad in the world. actually, if you’ll permit me to tell you a secret: it is absolutely imperative when the world at large is this bad that you enjoy the moments that are good. sing because you are in love, for the first time or for the first time in a long time. celebrate a good grade, good work feedback, a successful dessert finally achieved. sleep in a bit of sun and enjoy feeling safe and warm and comfortable. it doesn’t mean you don’t care. it doesn’t make you callous or cold. you know bad things are happening but you also need, desperately, to know that not all things are bad. find it when you can, and enjoy it without guilt, and if you need permission then here it is, freely given

7,338 notes - Posted June 27, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review #false

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comradekatara · 3 years

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intro post (please read this)

this blog was made in july of 2019 as a place for us to discuss avatar: the last airbender. we had no idea that within the following year, netflix’s upload of the show to their platform would result in a “revival” of the fandom, and if we had, we very likely would have never started this blog. as it is, i still enjoy talking about atla, and continue to run this blog, but i barely, if ever, interact with the rest of the fandom outside of responding to the questions in my inbox.

i post atla art on a frequent basis. check it out! or don’t im not ur mom.

for the record, our old url was lesbians4sokka, but since there is only one person running this blog at this point, the url no longer made sense. i changed it to comradekatara in reference to this comic i drew, and also because it’s just a banger url. that said, anyone else with either of those usernames on other platforms are not me! i have been notified that other people are impersonating me or claiming that i am on other platforms; i am not, and they are mistaken and/or flat-out lying.

the following post will not attempt to explain any of my opinions on the show itself. please read the faq for more on this matter. this post will instead detail a list of guidelines i humbly request you follow when engaging with this blog.

there is an overwhelming & upsetting amount of fan-generated content for this show that is racist and misogynistic in nature. try your very best at all times never to contribute to that culture. make sure that your writing or art supports the humanity of all characters, and avoids tropes that put female characters, indigenous characters, and disabled characters in dehumanizing situations. when you produce content for the fandom, ask yourself what your content does for marginalized people in real life.

when criticizing media – for example, atla – you should always cite the text. i think that multiple interpretations of the same text can be equally compelling and “true” (though i also firmly believe that some interpretations can be more correct than others), but that one’s analysis must be rooted in the text itself to hold any interpretive weight.

please remember to cite your sources. whether it be reposting art without credit, or lifting someone’s else’s ideas verbatim without acknowledging that you are quoting them. i am morally opposed to plagiarism, and find myself increasingly frustrated by how many of my ideas i have seen consistently stolen among this fandom without any acknowledgment of their origin. please give credit to other people’s art, writing, or ideas, both among fan communities, and in general.

instead of assuming one’s values, ask them. instead of playing a game of broken telephone in which you have decided someone holds opinions they have never stated due to assumptions made by others, the most prudent thing to do at all times is to go to the source. putting words in one’s mouth or assuming they hold values one does not believe based on extraneous reasoning is hurtful, as no one enjoys having lies spread about them. if you disagree with the opinions expressed on this blog, that is perfectly fine, but make sure someone actually holds the opinions you claim they do before publicly denouncing something they never actually did or said. that way, any misconceptions can be clarified before they snowball into greater and greater falsehoods.

please stop trying to foster a parasocial relationship with me!!! yes, i have more followers than i know what to do with, but that does not entitle anyone who does not actually know me to information about my life, or the right to freely share information i did not ask for about yours. it makes me deeply uncomfortable when people act too familiar with me when i do not actually know them, and yet they seem to be under the impression that because they follow me on some silly little bloggue, that somehow makes us friends. i am not your friend unless i am your friend. if i do not even follow you, please do not think of me as your friend and act uncomfortably familiar, even if i have been polite and friendly with you in the past. i have no desire to be projected onto or seen as any kind of public figure when to 99% of my followers i am simply an anonymous stranger sharing her thoughts on a tv show.

no anonymous messages. if you have an opinion you want to express, you should stand by that opinion and attach your name to it. anonymous messages tend to be more hostile than messages that are signed, because the freedom that comes with not having to answer for your actions gives users a feeling of immunity that often leads to unkind and/or inappropriate behavior. if you are unwilling to stand by what you want to say, think about why that is.

stop adding unnecessary captions to my posts. no one likes it when strangers reblog posts with an added caption of zero value or substance to someone’s else’s post. before you make an addition to a post you reblog, please heavily consider whether or not your addition could, instead, simply remain in the tags, or whether it even needs to be said at all. this also applies to adding image descriptions to posts that already have an id included in the alt text. (copy pasting from alt text into plain text is fine, but please refrain from editorializing in your id on someone else’s art, especially if there’s already a description there!) despite ever so bravely refraining from adding your completely unnecessary 2 cents to someone else’s post, i promise you’ll live.

dear god, please read. far too often, people on this platform do not bother to actually source or critically consider the information they imbibe and subsequently believe. read posts in full before responding to them. consider differing perspectives, and then try to figure out where you individually stand, instead of simply agreeing with whichever voice best confirms your preexisting biases. read as much as you can, and form your own opinions.

and finally, please remember that i am just one person, talking about a show, when i’m bored and sitting in my room. i do not have “clout,” i am not a “public figure,” i am simply one individual gorgeous young woman who likes to dissect fiction. if i make a joke that is not to your liking, that’s fine! unfollow me! i am not making jokes for you (i don’t even know you!) i am making jokes for me. at all times, i am posting for an audience of one, and occasionally my friends i suppose. whatever. it’s rly not that deep. just think critically & be normal ok thanks <3333 mwah

#housekeeping #edit as of 10/14/23 im putting this post under a readmore bc i don’t think these guidelines are as relevant anymore #for a while this blog was gaining a lot of traction and I felt like I had been swept up in a wave of discourse #with which I had no intention of actually engaging #and so I felt a disclaimer was necessary #but I don’t really feel that way anymore #which is a good thing #but im still keeping the post up because I think stating my values when engaging w fandom is nevertheless still important #but reading it is a choice not a requirement

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tempenensis · 3 years

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Nanami: the duality(s) of man

Nanami Kento (七海建人) is arguably one of the more complex characters in jjk. A lot of contrasts are packed in one character, it’s actually amazing. And yet, he is still so relatable.

Nanami’s name in kanji is actually interesting. His family name, Nanami (七海) is written with “seven” (七) and “sea” (海) kanji, but it also can be read as “seven” (七 = nana) “three” (三 = mi), a suggestion to his cursed technique. His given name, Kento (建人), is written with “build” (建) and “man” (人) kanji.

1. Office worker and Grunt work

Nanami is introduced by Gojo as his peer and junior, a trusted and reliable friend. He is depicted in a full suit and tie, with neat haircut - nothing less than salaryman image Gojo calls him. Without his unique glasses, you won’t be able to differentiate him from common office worker. He’s the stiff seriousness formality in contrast to Gojo’s easy, overly friendly and overly informal attitude. Even during their first meeting, he demands a formal introduction from Itadori. He also returns Itadori’s formal introduction with one of his own, even if it’s used for comedic effect.

“Where moderate effort is sufficient, use moderate effort.”

His words in answer to Itadori’s excitement and going all out when the boy is finally getting his chance for mission in the field. Only people who is familiar with routine, boring works in office can say things like this. Routine work is indeed, sufficient with moderate effort, nothing anyone should exert too much effort. In addition, during combat or “work”, he is strict with his time allocation. At a glance, it looks like another part of his salaryman image - even if it is actually something else.

All these formal conducts are direct reflection of his nickname of an ex-salaryman. But compared to his image, his cursed technique is far from the image of an office worker.

Nanami’s innate technique is called Ratio cursed technique (十劃呪法 : Tookaku juuhou), where he forcibly creates a weak point in his opponent by dividing them into tenths and hit it on the critical point of seven-to-three. He uses a wide sword wrapped in seals for it. It is a technique that demand physical strength and excellent eye-hand coordination of the user - which are usually not attributed to office worker, but rather, manual laborer who uses their physical strength.

Unfortunately, I’m working overtime now

Here, the original text of Nanami’s Overtime Work is 時間外労働 (: jikangai roudou). 労働 (roudou) can be translated both as general term of working and manual labor. During Overtime work, the technique he uses is Collapse (瓦落瓦落 = garagara, literally “Tile fall”, but it’s also an onomatopoeia for rattling sound), which is fundamentally similar to Itadori’s attack - a physical blow from his fist infused with huge amount of cursed energy.

2. Anti-social and people-magnet

Nanami is someone who thought himself to be distanced from people, either normal people or the same jujutsushi, but in actual... well, people-magnet is not the right term but Nanami is someone who is attracted to people. He come off as stiff and cold, but he is highly empathic to others, just like Itadori.

Right on their first meeting, after introducing himself, Nanami said that he doesn’t acknowledge Itadori as a jujutsushi, because even if he doesn’t like it, he still follow the rules. He asks Itadori to prove himself despite housing Sukuna.

Itadori is Sukuna’s vessel. He should be executed immediately as per jujutsu rules. It’s only because Gojo’s protection that he still breathes, even get to be educated as jujutsushi. Not too long ago before this moment, he was killed by a special-grade that Gojo suspected to be a foul play from the upper management. And even after this, Itadori is targeted by other jujutsushi who want to kill him without first trying to know the human he actually is.

Nanami at the first glance looks like he is too serious, too fixated to the rules imposed to jujutsushi. However for Nanami, a rule-abiding jujutsushi, willing to cooperate with Itadori - the Sukuna’s vessel that others want to executed - on a mission, give him a chance to prove himself, and even teach him stuffs, speaks how he is actually not so cold-hearted as he makes himself to be.

At first, on the mission, they don’t get along. Itadori who can make friends with people he only just met in a heartbeat, has a hard time reading Nanami. Not only because of their different personality, but Nanami is also protecting Itadori as a child. For an adult to be able to see the Sukuna’s vessel as an actual child, even protecting him, it really speaks something.

And further down, he also protects Itadori as the more experienced jujutsushi. He wants to protect Itadori’s innocence as young jujutsushi as long as possible.

Itadori is highly empathic of other people. His motivation is to give people proper death - whoever they are. Nanami realizes this when Itadori gets angry about the transfigured human they fight in the cinema, that their death are wrong in his eyes. This mission is the worst early mission for Itadori - someone who is highly empathic but has to face an enemy that transfigure human. Killing people will hurt him emotionally. That is why Nanami forbid Itadori to go after Mahito with him.

Nanami works as jujutsushi after he retired from being an office worker. And before that, he ran away from jujutsu world because of the accident with Haibara. Haibara was his friend in the same grade who was killed one year after Hidden Inventory arc.

後は頼む (I’ll leave the rest to you)

It is possibly the final words that Haibara said to Nanami, making him realized how shitty jujutsushi are - as he was forced to abandon the live of his friend for the sake of other people. The death of Haibara hurt them badly - it did not only made Nanami run away from being a jujutsushi, but also the final push that made Getou finally stray from the “right path”.

And ever since, Nanami distanced himself from jujutsu world, and to an extent, people. He called his office job to be “out of human cycle” and poured all of himself into earning more money. He forced himself to be apathetic. It didn’t matter if he had money - or so he thought.

He just exorcised a small fry to make the baker’s feel better, but the emotional effect of the passing gratitude on Nanami is very deep. He stopped to be a jujutsushi because of people, but he also returned to be one because of people. He is even still empathic to transfigured human used by Mahito in their fight, despite claiming that he doesn’t bring his personal feeling to work.

3. Adult of adult

Finding more hair loss on your bedside, your favorite deli bread disappears from local convenience store... The accumulation of those little despairs is what makes someone an adult.

The way we move on from despairs, little or big, the way we accept it as part of ourselves, let it mold us to be the person that we are today. Nanami refers the “despairs” to come from the smallest things. But accumulation of small things can become a mountain - and vice versa, a mountain is accumulation of small rocks.

The death of Haibara is something that he has to "accumulate”, shaping Nanami to be the adult that he is and maybe even forcing him to be “an adult” earlier. Ijichi even calls Nanami 大人オブ大人 - adult among adults, due to his maturity despite being younger than Gojo. The way he protects Itadori as a child is mainly because he is still affected by this tragedy during his youth and doesn’t want Itadori to face the harsh reality of being a jujutsushi so early, as Itadori is still pretty new not only as jujutsushi, but also to the overall jujutsu world.

Unfortunately, the harsh reality decides to go right to Itadori’s doorstep - and the only thing Nanami can do is to trust Itadori to do the right thing, as he believes Itadori has what it takes to be a proper jujutsushi.

4. Greed and Acceptance

I am a human who never related to “things worth doing” or “things worth living for”. I’ll earn suitably until 3,40 years old, then I’ll enjoy living easily in country with low living cost.

Retiring early was Nanami’s main drive after he left Jujutsu high. He worked away from people and wanted to retire to a place also away, especially from his kind of people. And all that’s left for him to cling to is the greed to earn more money.

But Nanami is far from actually greedy. Being greedy implies to die with regrets and as Principal Yaga said, no jujutsushi dies without remorse. If Itadori won’t regret the way he lives, then Nanami is the person who is actually able to die without leaving any regrets. And that alone speaks how much closer and similar Nanami actually is to Itadori compared to others.

There are only a few moments Nanami smiles - and both instances are when he is on the verge of death. First before he was saved by Itadori (more accurately Sukuna) from Mahito’s domain, and then his actual last moment, he smiles as he passes his last words to Itadori. The same last words that Haibara said to him before his death.

I’ll leave the rest to you

From Haibara to Nanami, from Nanami to Itadori. He passes this words with heavy feeling, as it will “curse” Itadori to keep moving, to keep being a jujutsushi and walk in this harsh reality. It is not something that Nanami want Itadori to face - even young Nanami couldn’t bear the burden of being jujutsushi.

But this is the path that they have decided to walk on, and the way of living that they won’t - and in Nanami’s case didn’t - regret. And the only option left for Itadori is to continue walking on this path with all its harsh reality.

And now, Itadori is “cursed”.

#jujutsu kaisen #nanami kento #brain vomit #character analysis #jjk meta #jjk manga spoilers #yes i cried #tags please don't fail me now

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nona-piccolo · 3 years

Note

Obey Me you say ?? Oh HECK yeah, I’ve been thinking of a bunch of stuff ! Feel free to just respond to ones you enjoy, and I wish I had a preference of the brothers or others but that’s also really just up to you! The gender neutral pronouns are amazing, thank you !!! Now that that is out of the way, on to thoughts and questions!

How do you feel the brothers or others would react to a very blunt and honest MC? Like one that is nice as heck, but will not hesitate to tell you their actual thoughts on things- for example the constant bashing on Mammon or maybe helping Solomon out in the kitchen with friendly suggestions kinda vibe !

How do

Oh I love this one! A part of me thinks that the brothers truly need a blunt MC in their lives, especially with how they treat Mammon and such sometimes LOL Because there is no preference, I decided to only do the brothers for now. But I do feel bad, because my Asmodeus, Beel, and Belphie ones appear to be much shorter… Thank you for the request though, I really hope you enjoy the answer 💗

How the boys react to blunt MC

Characters: Lucifer, Mammon, Leviathan, Satan, Asmodeus, Beelzebub, and Belphegor

Reader: gn!reader

Warnings: none :)

Lucifer

I think it’s well known that Lucifer is not the softest guy when it comes to words.

Not only does he say whatever is on his mind, no matter how harsh it may be, but he also doesn’t care at all whose feelings he hurts in doing so. And yet there has never been anyone else to try and voice their opinions fullheartedly towards him.

So when he first begins spending time with you, truly, he was lowkey shocked at how blunt and honest you were.

Especially when it was towards him.

“Lucifer, did you just hang Mammon from the banister… again??” you ask, barging into his office without knocking. He was quite used to this however, and the demon had long since given up trying to scold you for it; it was no use, you would just keep doing it.

It’s not like he minded though. In fact, your presence made his head feel light after the many hours of paperwork he was going at.

“Yes, I did actually. Why do you ask?” he replied, glancing up to see you situated in front of his desk. You had your hands on your hips, obviously looking displeased. For a second, he thought your irritation was directed towards him.

“Why do I ask?” you replied back, no hesitation in your voice. “This is the third time this week. Mammon clearly hasn’t learned to fix his behavior after the first few times, and it’s obvious that hurting him won’t solve a thing!”

Oh… your irritation was directed towards him

Lucifer blinked up at you, his red eyes trying to read your face. No one ever had a problem with him punishing Mammon in the creative ways he could find; in fact, his younger brothers appeared to love watching Mammon suffer.

Apparently… you had not.

“Y/N, I-” Lucifer sighed, hell bent on just straight up telling you that Mammon will never learn.

“No. Stop doing it. He doesn’t deserve that.” You cut him off, the frustration still showing on your face. And before the demon could reply, you had turned around to whisk yourself out of his office.

The only thing left in the room was him and his thoughts--- and the sound of his pen slipping from his fingers to bounce onto the desk.

Ohhh boy, Lucifer had never had someone stand up to him like that. It wasn’t even like you were trying to be mean, or be the more ‘dominant’ one… you were just saying what was on your mind. And Lucifer wasn’t blind.. He knew how much his other brothers meant to you, so for you to care so much as to voice your opinion to the very avatar of pride himself--- maybe, just maybe, he could give Mammon a break from punishments.

Even though people like to portray Lucifer as someone who is super strict and would want to be around I guess more ‘submissive’ people who would obey him, I think he would certainly not like an MC who allows people to walk all over them. You are the perfect balance between kindness and honesty, making you a trustworthy companion.

And a good ol’ honest comment could never truly hurt Lucifer’s feelings. His skin was as thick as bone, so to finally be around someone who isn’t intimidated to speak their mind around him… it’s almost relieving

I guess you could even say he finds it attractive….

Mammon

Mammon had always enjoyed spending time with you

From the moment he met you, you had always given off a fun and compassionate aura, and so the demon was ecstatic to finally have a partner-in-crime!

Ehhhh… it wasn’t like that though

Although you found humor and joy in going along with his harmless schemes, there were some where you put your foot down without a grain of hesitation.

When you first voiced your opinion on how bad of an idea it was to try and snap a picture of Lucifer when he was sleeping, he instantly thought you were a debby downer with a goody-goody type of attitude. Mammon had groaned out in frustration as if he was a 3-year-old child.

“Oh come on! It’ll be fun! It’s not like Lucifer will even see ya coming,” he responded, pulling out his phone to text Satan and Asmodeus his plans.

You had stared at him after that for a solid minute, your arms crossed and your eyebrows furrowed as if you were thinking. It wouldn’t take a genius to recognize how bad of an idea that was.

“Mammon, you’ll probably be punished again. Respect Lucifer’s privacy please. Besides, I think it’ll be more fun if we watched a movie tonight! What do you say we rewatch the TSL series together?” you had brought up an alternate solution to keep him out of Lucifer’s wrath, hands folded together and eyes wide as you hoped he would agree and listen to you. Mammon was just confused though, looking at you as if you were crazy.

You’d rather watch that series all over again instead of trying to cause trouble for Lucifer??

Ugh… but look at your expecting face… he couldn’t just let you down.

Surprisingly, and begrudgingly though, he had agreed.

And guess who wasn’t thrown from the banister that night?? Mammon.

Your honesty doesn’t just stop there though.

As the family punching bag, Mammon was so used to taking the hits for his stupidity and then moving on. He never fought back. So when you decided to voice out how ridiculous it was that he was being called “stupid” and how ironic it was that Asmodeus was calling Mammon an “attention-seeker” or that Satan was referring to Mammon as an “asshole”, he was whole-heartedly surprised.

Apparently so were his other brothers.

Everyone just sort of sat there in silence as you shot comments back at them, scolding them for treating Mammon like he was dirt. It wasn’t just one instance either; Every. Single. Time. You told them to knock it off.

And just like that, the harsh insults towards Mammon began to disappear, especially whenever you were around.

The avatar of greed never had anyone to stand up for him in the ways that you had. And he feels his heart swell up with warmth as you berate Lucifer of all people for hanging Mammon upside; the fall causing his sunglasses to slip and break, much to his disappointment.

Mammon made it a goal to always be near you when he voiced his opinion around others; because not only would you acknowledge what he said, but you also made sure the others wouldn’t shoot him down for simply being himself

It was like he could breathe when he was around you. Like every single thing he said wasn’t nitpicked apart and thrown away as a stupid thing. You were different. You told him what was wrong and gave him constructive criticism.

BUT-- that honestly doesn’t protect him from himself

No one is safe from your blunt persona, not even Mammon.

I think this is what he truly needs in his life though; because I believe honesty and bluntness comes from a place of love and comfort. You are blunt because you want Mammon to be the best that he can be, you are blunt because you want to see Mammon succeed, you are blunt because you care about him.

Every honest thing you say about him is to protect him.

So whenever Mammon sneaks into Leviathan’s room at night for a limited edition figurine, or slips down Diavolo’s corridors to try and snatch a vintage portrait that could make him some potential money… he always pauses to think of your reaction to his late night greedy urges. So that when he hesitantly puts down the portrait, he can sleep comfortably knowing that you’d be proud of him.

Leviathan

To be honest… I think it would make him very nervous when he observed that you were an honest person

Even though his brothers are equally as harsh to him-- for example, they don’t hesitate to call him a nerd, or a weeb and otaku-- he doesn’t seem to mind it anyways, since Leviathan has fully absorbed and accepted his otaku persona.

But this situation is a bit different… because even though Leviathan is used to his brothers being honest with him, it’s a whole different thing when Y/N does it.

Someone out of his family circle telling him that he’s a weirdo??

Yikes, he doesn’t think his heart could handle that.

So to cope he’ll at first just stay in his room… far away from you… so he could get to his usual activities.

He is already so used to being locked up in his room away from prying eyes and others’ opinions, so as soon as he takes notice of your blunt tendencies (especially when you had first voiced your thoughts to Lucifer), Leviathan shies away from being close to a normie like you. Besides, he doesn’t even need to leave, right? He has an emergency built stash of food for when he needs to eat, and he could just do school work on his own computer.

He has this whole imaginary field of comfort that he had built up for years and years; a room full of figures and merchandise-- his own personal utopia.

Leviathan doesn’t want you to judge him; he doesn’t want you to think that he’s weird or a loser. His poor introverted otaku heart couldn’t handle it

Clearly, he didn’t understand you at all...

That doesn’t stop you from hanging around him either. You insist he shouldn’t have to wait up all night alone for tickets on Zaramela’s new worldwide tour, and you had dragged Mammon along with you to give Leviathan some company.

He felt cornered, deciding to let you in to stay up late with him. And while Mammon had fallen asleep (much to Levi’s anxiety), he was left to try and entertain you to the best of his ability.

Leviathan hesitantly hopped onto his gaming console, turning on a classic favorite of his. It was simple, it was easy, and he was very familiar with it, especially considering he had played it and completed it over 25 times.

Perhaps his movements will be more shaky and unsure, however. When you sat down to watch him play his video games, he may mess up more often, to his dismay. Your distance to him was decent enough, and you couldn’t help but smile as you watched him begin to get absorbed into the game.

“You know, you’re very good at the game…” you mutter, looking down at his fingers flying across the controller. You wonder for a moment how Leviathan can even stare at the bright screen for so long without any permanent eye damage.

Apparently he took your comment as a sarcastic one, lightly scoffing. “Okay I get it… we can do something else… like uhh..” his eyes flitted down to a random CD he had discarded on his floor a while ago. “We could watch The Girl Whose Grandparents Travelled Back in Time to Tell Her She Was a Princess,” he casually brought up airily; already in the process of turning off his video game. He reached over to grab the CD, realizing too late that this was one of the animes he didn’t really like...

You were a bit confused at the offer though. “Um no thanks. It’s a total rip off of The Girl Whose Parents Time Travelled To the Past to Tell Her She Was a Princess.” Your response was automatic, looking at the CD as if you were bored.

Leviathan paused. “What?! Y-You noticed that too??” he questioned, tossing the CD back onto the ground where it originally was. “Finally someone who understands!! The heroine was almost a complete carbon copy, I can’t believe the studio got away with that!”

You nodded your head, a serious expression on your face. “What a let down. Besides, the original had a better soundtrack 100%.”

Leviathan almost jumped on you with excitement.

Apparently not even Leviathan knew how harsh of a critic he himself was. All that harsh judgement he does on animes and video games… Perhaps you being just as blunt would be new to him. You were somehow both one in the same.

All in all, Leviathan didn’t understand how much of a blessing having an honest person in his life could be. Especially as someone who doesn’t judge; your honesty never crossed the line into personal territory.

Instead, you gave him an opportunity to gain feedback on animes that you two binge watch together

And for the first time in forever, Leviathan felt like he had someone to indulge in.

Satan

He really really enjoys this

Satan pegs me as the type of guy that would find humor in hearing your honest opinions--- and you notice that whenever you speak your mind towards Lucifer, you can briefly hear a quiet chuckle escaping Satan’s lips.

Of course, as mature as Satan is, it’s not that he actually finds what you say humorous; he just never thought he’d see the day where some mortal human would stand up to a group of demons as intimidating as they could be.

You remind him of himself in some ways… both of you unafraid to speak your minds and both of you able to stand up for what you truly believe in.

And because of this, he registers the fact that instead of going to Solomon or Asmodeus for opinions on his books or feedback for his many essays, he goes to you.

Especially when Satan needs proper and honest feedback from someone who wouldn’t sugarcoat it. And unlike Leviathan, Satan relishes in some proper assessments.

Satan feels more drawn to you than the rest of his brothers, coming up to you for some of his more diabolical actions--- like the many pranks he kept under his sleeve for Lucifer

“Do you think Lucifer will see this one coming?” he asked you casually, sliding you a piece of paper containing a scribbled down--- yet well thought-out and detailed scheme to cause trouble yet again.

You quirk up an eyebrow, glancing away from your phone and down towards the sheet of paper. With a small sigh, you decided to give in and at least entertain the idea. He just didn’t give up, huh?

“Hmmm… didn’t you try a plan like this similar to before?” you replied, eyes raking through the pencil marks.

“Have I?” he mumbled, leaning in to feign involvement. “Yes,” you answered, dropping the paper and acting like you didn’t need to see any more.

“And it didn’t work that time. I don’t think it’ll work this time either Satan. Sorry…”

“Don’t be sorry,” he grinned.

It’s not like it was just Satan who enjoyed your presence; you would grow increasingly more and more comfortable about voicing your opinions around him. There’s only one thing better than a straightforward honest person--- and that is someone who can actually appreciate the honesty

After you recognized that Satan truly does not get bothered by whatever is on the tip of your tongue, things only got better.

I can imagine late nights where you and Satan would stay up until your eyelids became like lead and you couldn’t continue without sleep. Those nights were filled with honesty and intelligence. He thought you had a beautiful mind. He wanted to hear every opinion that popped up in your head

Asmodeus

Hmmm… Asmodeus is a bit trickier.

As an outward and bubbly extrovert, Asmodeus was bound to hear all types of opinions from all types of different people. And judging by his insane amount of confidence, he doesn’t let any of that negative energy affect him (He says it’s bad for his skin).

It’s not like you’d say anything mean to him to begin with, especially purposefully--- but I feel everyone takes criticism differently, and some take it to heart more than others

Considering you don’t fall for Asmodeus’s mind-controlling charm, your honest and blunt nature just adds the cherry to the cake on what kind of person you are. This just makes you more natural and pleasant to be around.

So instead, he makes his use of it, making sure to drag you along with every one of his shopping sprees around town.

You wouldn’t suck up to him, or brush off his hyper enthusiasm by simply saying ‘yes’ to everything--- much like his brothers do to him

“Y/N, Y/N, do you think this color will look good on me??” Asmodeus excitedly asks, holding up a beige scarf to his neck. Both of you couldn’t care less about the wandering eyes that followed trailed towards the loud demon of lust. “I think this color looks good on me, but definitely not with the outfit I’m wearing currently.”

You smile at his animated gestures, nodding your head in agreement.

“I do think the color suits you, but didn’t you get a beige outfit a week ago? Maybe a cream color will look better,” you mention, shifting through the scarves on the rack.

Asmodeus pauses to pose in the mirror that was conveniently placed on the store wall. “You could be right~ I heard cream is more in style right now anyways. Thank you darling 💗.”

Beelzebub

Beelzebub doesn’t even notice you’re more blunt and honest; like, he doesn’t isolate that as your special quality

Instead, he just thinks that that is how you were as a person.

Honestly, it’s quite cute.

Whenever he eats off of the plates of others, or realizes that he just vacuumed down the cookies that you were supposed to deliver to Luke, you don’t hesitate to voice your disapproval.

“Beel, please don’t eat other people’s food. It’s not nice,” you reprimand gently, noticing that no other brother on the table was going to say anything to reprimand him.

He quietly gulps down the rest of the food that he had finished chewing in time. “Oh… sorry,” Beel mumbled, wiping the remaining crumbs of the cookies that he knew you worked on for Luke.

He didn’t even realize he reached over to take the food.. One moment his stomach grumbled hungrily, and then the next moment he smelled the cookies you had spent all morning baking.

Whenever he ate his brothers’ food, they would always sigh and complain to Lucifer about it---which in turn caused Lucifer to tell them to just grab some more.

He really really didn’t mean it…

You sighed quietly, grabbing a napkin off of the table to aid in ridding the crumbs all over his shirt. “It’s okay Beel. Try not to do it again, kay?” It looks like you needed to throw together another batch of cookies in order to get them delivered to Luke before it got too late.

You glanced behind you, watching as Beel followed you to the kitchen again. The redhead noticed your questioning glance, and he only grinned in reply.

“I’m going to help you make more. It’s the least I can do…” he said.

The gesture must have made you happy, because he could see you return the grin instantly.

Beelzebub also happens to be lowkey blunt in his own way, because while he may hold back in speaking a lot of the time, much of what he does say (besides things food-related) is actually quite honest. He isn’t afraid to tell people what he thinks about them, but on a much lower scale than you.

I think this mixture of two similar people is wonderful---

Remember how I said some people take honesty and criticism to heart more than others?? Well… Beel takes to heart what you say and attempts to fix anything he can within his power.

Belphegor

Ha ha ha… ahhh Belphegor. Okay correct me if I’m wrong, but he’d totally be the type to purposefully do things that would make you snap at him or cause you to be more blunt.

He always knew you were kind-- I mean, you were the one to help get him out of the miserable attic. You were also the one willing to deal with Mammon, so… ya know.

But his level of respect for you rose when the demon took note that you were no welcome mat.

No one could step all over you, and for a human, that was damn impressive to him.

For example, the first time he had fallen asleep in a weird position in front of you was when you, Beel, and Belphie decided it would be fun to bake some muffins for everyone. He was assigned the role of mixing together the mix and well… he fell asleep.

While standing…

You quickly snapped him out of it, voicing your opinion on how it was not the time to be sleeping--- especially if these muffins were to be done before dinner

He liked getting your attention in that way though

Belphegor was another demon with thick skin, and yet another demon who also happens to be blunt and honest (probably one the most in the family)

“You look like shit,” he mumbled into his pillow, watching you trudge into the room tiredly. You had dark under eye circles, probably due to the lack of sleep you had within the past two days, and your hair was unkempt. The strands thrown about your head like a cyclone just hit you. Belphegor had heard that you were taking extra magic lessons with Satan and Solomon, and he only assumed this was a result.

You grunted, flopping down onto the bed right next to him.

“Well, you don’t look too good yourself. But I guess that’s what 10 hours of sleep will do to you,” you bit back, the words were a bit slurred and muffled due to your face plant on the bed.

He chuckled lightly, scooching over to toss his blanket over you.

Belphegor would ask about your little magic experience later on; the loads of opinions you probably had would make due for an interesting listen.

#obey me #obeyme #reader x obey me #Obey me MC #headcanons

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toxicsamruby · 3 years

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1/2 i think the thing that makes it harder to engage with race in supernatural (at least for me, idk abt white fans) is that at the end of the day, the actors are white. the characters are white. the writers are white. there's no such thing as race-coding the way there is with gender or queerness. like, we talk about how supernatural accidentally gave us some (poor, but doesn't-matter-bc-it's-still-fun) queer rep and we can take that and deconstruct it and project/investigate the inherent

2/2 queerness that main(!) characters have and we can even speculate about [GUNSHOT] and we get something out of it! something good and fun! but engaging with race on supernatural.. like, what is there to get? examining the way poc are treated is just traumatic (again, at least for me), and thinking about people using it as tumblr brain food when it's actually emblematic of white supremacy narratives being upheld and /real/ actors of color constantly being sidelined just. does not sit right with me

i understand what ur coming from and i absolutely didnt mean to say that anybody especially not white fans should take the racism in supernatural lightly or use it as “brain food.” its absolutely a serious matter! but race is present in the text from premise to execution to audience and the fact is that valid readings of the text MUST include a reading of race, white supremacy, and eugenics. no, its not a fun topic to think about, and it’s one that maybe people are scared to address bc they’re worried abt being canceled or whatever, but the fact is that when you engage w deeply racist media such as supernatural you cant in good conscience say Well it bothers me to examine the presence of race in this story so i’m going to focus on analyzing aspects of the text that are more fun for me.

this DOES NOT MEAN that anybody (ESPECIALLY not white people) should take racism lightly. it doesn’t mean they should turn it into an abstract intellectual exercise. it definitely doesn’t mean that white people should feel that they have the same expertise in deconstructing characters and narratives of color as they do in deconstructing female or lgbt characters and narratives. what it DOES mean is that race MUST play a part in how you read the text. people who claim to engage with supernatural on a deeper level (and by that i mean people who regularly read/post meta or talk about “the secret good supernatural in our heads”) MUST ALSO engage with racism. it isn’t enough to say Yeah supernatural is racist but i’m still going to enjoy and consume and create transformative fan content that replicates the racism embedded in supernatural. christianity as the underpinning law of the supernatural universe, monsters as inherently Other and in need of extermination, the consistent sidelining and villainizing of characters of color, these are all things that people need to start interrogating, and interrogation of these things HAS to become a part of mainstream fan culture in the same way interrogation of, for example, dean’s relationship to masculinity and femininity/castiel’s relationship with gayness and authority and free will/sam’s relationship with monstrosity as a function of lgbt coding has become a part of mainstream fan culture.

because the fact is that That is what engaging critically with a racist text MEANS. it doesn’t mean acknowledging that it’s racist as lip service and then moving on. if race is not an active and ongoing part in fan discussion and analysis of the show, then fans are not engaging critically, they are just consuming and excusing a racist text. either you’re actively discussing and pushing against racism in supernatural, or you’re accepting it. and honestly if, for whatever reason, you aren’t comfortable with interrogating the element of race in supernatural and integrating it into your analysis of the show, you really should just not engage with supernatural.

#im concluding with the general you not pointed at the asker specifically #and this answer is a general answer bc this is something that ive been meaning to articulate and post #it's not aggressive towards you the asker at all im actually really glad you sent this because i HAVE noticed the response ur talking abt #as in white people saying things like yeah race in supernatural is a critical perspective on it that we can joke abt and take lightly just #like gender and sexuality perspectives #so thank you for asking #asks #this is okay to rb btw i actually want people to rb this

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sketching-shark · 3 years

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I think we should start a protection squad (although they don’t need it because they can protect themselves) for Sun Wukong and Guanyin

“Begone monkie kid fandom trying to down grade these really interesting characters with interesting personality’s and backstory ( the both of them like seriously Guanyin backstory is so cool) to a villain wile trying to justify your angsty backstory (that are no where near as cool as monkey who fights gods and Person who has 1000 arms and heads to help people in need) for the actual villain”

So who wants to join

Me:*raises my hand*

Ps: sorry if I got Guanyin backstory wrong am not an expert on it.

Haha okay so some critiques on the jttw & associated media western fandom & fandom in general coming up, so please skip this upcoming text wall if you don't want to encounter my undoubtedly ~devastating~ words (i.e. don't like don't read as people love to say, & if I have to be inundated with images of my notp every time I go into the sun wukong tag then I imagine people can be chill with me expressing my opinions & giving people fair warning that I WILL be critiquing common fandom trends, but no need for you to see that if you don’t want to. Cool? Cool.)

-----

PFFFFFTTT oh man there are many times when I feel like signing up for such a protection squad...when it comes to the current western jttw & Sun Wukong fandom I do feel like I'm often swinging at a rapid pace between "well it's fandom & people are allowed to make the stories they want" & "I am once again begging my fellow monkie kid enthusiasts (& sometimes creators) to do more research into the og classic/show it more respect so you can avoid any potentially offensive/off-the-mark misunderstandings of the status & cultural context of the characters in their country of origin (I promise it's super interesting & I can provide you with links to free pdf copies of the entire Yu translation, i.e. the best one ever created, so feel free to ask!) & maybe also stop constantly stripping away all the nuance of Sun Wukong's character for the sake of either making him an entire asshole so your little meow meow can look completely innocent in comparison and/or making the monkey king's entire life & character revolve around said meow meow."

Like I get that fandom's supposed to be a kind of anything-goes environment, but one thing that honestly seems to be true of a lot of fandoms--and the western one for Sun Wukong & co. is certainly not immune from this--is that there often seems to be a kind of monoculturalization at work in what stories are created & what character interpretations are made popular. Across a multitude of fandoms, you frequently see basically nothing but the exact same tropes being made popular & even being insisted on for the canonical work (especially hasty redemption arcs & enemies to lovers these days), the exact same one-dimensional character types that characters from an original work keep getting shoved into, the exact same story beats, etc. And I get it to an extent, as fandom is generally a space where people just make art and fic for fun & without thinking too hard about it & without any pressure.

This seems to, however, often unfortunately lead to the mentality that it’s your god-given right to do literally whatever you want with literally any cultural figure without even the slightest bit of thought put into their cultural, historical, and even religious context, even (and sometimes especially) when it comes to figures that are really important in a culture outside your own. For such figures--even if you first encounter them in a children’s cartoon--you should be a little more careful with what you do with them than you would with your usual Saturday morning line-up. It of course has to be acknowledged that there exists a whole pile of absolutely ridiculous & cursed pieces of media that are based on Journey to the West & that were produced in mainland China, but for your own education if nothing else I consider it good practice for those of us (myself certainly included) who aren’t part of the culture that produced JTTW to put more thought into how we might want to portray these characters so that at the very least (to pull some things I’ve seen from the jttw western fandom) we’re not turning a goddess of mercy into an evil figure for the sake of Angst(TM), or relegating other important literary figures into the positions of offensive stereotypes, or making broad claims about the source text & original characterizations of various figures that are blatantly untrue, or mocking heavenly deities because of what’s actually your misunderstanding of how immortality works according to Daoist beliefs. Yet while a lot of this is often due to people not even trying to understand the context these figures are coming from, I do want to acknowledge that the journey (lol reference) to understand even a fraction of the original cultural context can be a daunting one, especially since, as I’ve mentioned before, it can be really hard & even next to impossible to find good, accessible, & legitimate explanations in English of how, for example, the relationship between Sun Wukong and the Six-Eared Macaque is commonly interpreted in China & according to the Buddhist beliefs that define the original work.

That is to say, I do think it’s an unfortunate, if unavoidable, part of any introduction of an original text into a culture foreign to its own for there to be sometimes a significant amount of misinterpretation, mistranslations, and false assumptions. There is, however, a big difference between learning from your honest mistakes, & doubling down on them while dismissing all criticism of your misinterpretation into that abstract category of “fandom drama.” The latter attitude is kind of shitty at best and horrifically entitled at worst.

Plus, as I’ve discovered, there is a great deal of interest and joy to be drawn from keeping yourself open to learning aspects of these texts & figures that you weren’t aware of! I can say from my own experience that I’ve always really enjoyed & appreciated it when individuals on this site who come from a Chinese background--and who know much more about the cultural context of JTTW than me--have taken the time to explain its various aspects. It often leaves me feeling like woooooaaaahhhhhHHH!!!! as to how amazingly full of nuanced meaning JTTW is like dang no wonder it’s one of China’s Four Great Classical Novels.

And I guess that right there is the heart of a lot of my own personal frustration and disappointment with the ways that fandoms often approach a literary work or other piece of media...like don’t get me wrong, a lot of the original works a fandom may grow around are just straight-up goofy & everyone’s aware of it & has fun with it, yet the trend of approaching what are often nuanced and multi-layered works in terms of how well they fit and/or can be shoved into pretty cliche ideas of Redemption Arc or Enemies to Lovers or Hero Actually Bad, Villain Actually Good etc...well, it just seems to cheapen and even erase even the possibility of understanding the wonderful complexity or even endearing simplicity that made these works so beloved in the first place. Again, I feel like I need to make it clear that I’m not saying fandom should be a space where people are constantly trying to one-up each other with their hot takes in literary analysis, but it would be nice and even beneficial to allow room for commentary that strives to approach these works in a multi-faceted way, analysis & interpretations that go against the popular fandom beliefs, & criticism of the work or even of fandom trends (yes it is in fact possible to legitimately love something but still be critical of its aspects) instead of immediately attacking people who try to engage in such as just being haters who don’t want anyone to have fun ever (X_X).

----

Anyway, I know I didn’t cover even half of the stuff you brought up in the first place anon, but I don’t want any interested parties to this post to suffer too long through my text wall lol. I was asked to try my hand at illustrating Guanyin, but as with you I’m nowhere near as informed as I should be about her, so I want to do more research on her history and religious importance before I attempt a portrait. I’ll try my best, and do plan to pair that illustration with my own outsider’s attempt to summarize her character. From what little I do know I am in full agreement that her backstory is so incredibly amazing...just the fact that she literally eschewed the bliss of Nirvana to help all beings reach it, and even split herself into pieces in the attempt to do so (with Buddha granting her eleven heads and a thousand arms as a result)...man, I can see why she’s such a beloved & respected deity.

----

As for what western fandom commonly does with everyone’s favorite god-fighting primate...I can talk about this at length if there’s interest, but for this post I’ll just say that I guess one lesson from all of this is that for all the centuries that have passed since Journey to the West was first completed, literally no one drawing inspiration from the original tale in the west (lol) has come even slightly close to being able to equal or even capture half the extent of the nuance, complexity, religious, historical, and cultural aspects, and humor that define Wu Cheng'en's story of an overpowered monkey who defied even Buddha.

So thank the heavens we'll always have the original.

#journey to the west #jttw #guanyin #sun wukong #monkey king #monkie kid #fandom #fandom critical

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fatalism-and-villainy · 3 years

Text

I’m going to preface this post by saying that I am well aware of the circumstances that have given rise to the kind of rhetoric I am about to be critical of. I know that there is a vast contingent of fans who make incredibly aggressive, vitriolic, and bad faith attacks on MDZS and its author, and that a lot of the positive discussion of the novel has in many ways been constrained by this context. I am myself generally defensive of the novel, and I think the amount and nature of the backlash it has received is awful. This argument is also not directed at any particular person or post - it’s the product of a conglomeration of numerous posts and the general impression I’ve gotten from them.

That said, there is a particular kind of defense of the novel that I think is misguided, and misguided in a manner that actually capitulates to the premises of a lot of the criticism, and does the novel a disservice. And that defense is, specifically, how the sex scenes or general romantic development are discussed.

To be more specific – I definitely appreciate the commentary on the themes of consent in Lan Wangji’s arc, and how that ties into the development of the novel’s central relationship, and more broadly the way in which MDZS constitutes in some ways a self-aware engagement with its own genre. But I think a lot of these defenses are framed so as to downplay the fact that, regardless of its subversions or active engagement with the parameters of its genre, MDZS is, ultimately, still a romance novel.

And I say that not in a disparaging manner, but rather to emphasize that the structure of the work, and the reader response it is broadly geared towards, are difficult to separate from this. Assuming that sexual appeal, or romantic fantasy, are not intended components of MDZS, or that it would weaken the novel if they were, is I think, wrongheaded, and it does a disservice to MDZS (and the romance genre more broadly) to assume that the appealing or titillating elements of its romantic plot or sexual content need to be downplayed in order to argue for its quality as a work of art.

(I don’t want to imply that this is the intention of anyone making these kinds of arguments, but the combined weight of these talking points, or rather the frequency with which I’ve seen them invoked, is starting to give off that subtext to me.)

To be more specific – I see objections to the nonconsensual Phoenix Mountain kiss being countered with arguments about the role of that scene within the narrative, and Lan Wangji’s struggle with his parents’ history and the themes of consent that tie into that. And I agree with this reading! I think that is certainly the way we are supposed to connect the dots. But I have seen the general implication of “Well of course that scene isn’t sexy! It’s a commentary on consent!” To which I make the reply, “why can’t it be both?”

For me, that scene is operating on multiple levels. It is a moral breach (as Lan Wangji himself acknowledges when they talk about it at the end) on a more grounded and realist level, as well as an important bit of characterization of Lan Wangji as complex and dealing with some considerable internal struggle. But, on a different storytelling level, the more romantic, wish-fulfillment level, it’s a fun little titillation fantasy! The idea of a powerful person being so overcome with passion for you that they have to have you and can’t be held back by their own moral values, is a pretty common fantasy! I think that it flattens the scene considerably to erase that aspect of it, because I think the way it balances both of those realities is actually a triumph of MXTX’s writing, and one of the things that makes the novel so rich.

I will also say that something else I appreciate about that scene, along with Wei Wuxian’s post-resurrection harassment of Lan Wangji, and the way the drunk sex scene is negotiated (or… not negotiated), is the fact that it doesn’t operate based on a rigid set of interpersonal principles. Or, to put it another way, I think the development of Wangxian’s relationship in the novel is very much a demonstration of the fact that people often do cross boundaries, make mistakes, and commit ethical infractions in their interpersonal relations with others, and that that’s not actually the end of the world and doesn’t make you irredeemably bad. It is entirely one’s right to cut off contact with someone who commits such infractions, but it’s not actually necessary to do that if your general relations with that person have been positive or you think they have demonstrated considerable evidence of improvement. I think a lot of people who attack the novel are operating on a very rigid moral framework when it comes to evaluating those situations, and I would rather not concede to that view in my evaluation of them – which I think downplaying the expectation of reader enjoyment of scenes like that does effectively do.

I’ve seen similar criticisms of other sex scenes responded to in similar ways – when people have some objection to how a sex scene is written, whether of a moral nature or simply a personal preference nature, I often see that countered with “well it’s not supposed to be hot, it’s there for characterization/theme purposes.” And I understand this impulse, considering the current backlash against sex scenes and the accompanying disavowal of the value of sex scenes in developing characterization. But, honestly, I don’t think it’s reasonable to chastise people for wanting the sex in a romance novel to be sexy. It is generally part of the structural contract in the genre that a romance will culminate in sex, and that the sex is there, at least in part, for fanservice. And there are plenty of people who enjoy the sex scenes in MDZS, or who do think they’re hot. The fact that they don’t appeal to everyone (which is inevitable) doesn’t mean they’re not meant to appeal, or that theme, characterization, and other components of the craft of writing can’t coexist with that intention.

There is a broader strain of literary criticism that I disapprove of that follows this sort of logic – that any sort of more visceral reader enjoyment (and not just sexual enjoyment – aesthetic enjoyment also qualifies) constitutes a lack of critical thinking on the part of the reader, a lack of awareness of the fact that the author actually meant you to be critical of this thing that looks appealing on the surface. But they are not mutually exclusive. And I think it’s a fairly conservative view of sex in particular to assume that sexual appeal or arousal precludes critical thinking. And with MDZS specifically, I feel as if some defenses of the novel have the unintentional effect of flattening the novel into didacticism. Which is a shame, because I think the way MXTX engages the themes surrounding consent, and associated expectations of the romance genre, is actually quite subtle and nuanced. It’s not a text that spells out all the answers about this issue, and, despite what the detractors say, it doesn’t have to.

Anyway. The sex scenes do some fascinating character and thematic work, and they’re sexy. And that’s not a bad thing.

#mdzs #my meta #mdzs talk #dubcon/noncon discussion in the post

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