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somehow-a-human · 13 days

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Moonlight Serenade & Good Omens &... Lost...?

DO NOT ASK NEIL ABOUT FAN THEORY.

First off: I am a certified former band kid. I've been playing the trumpet for 17 years. I did marching band in high school & college, I served pep band march madness basketball realness, I'm a bona fide concert hall bitch, and I considered becoming a professional musician.

Because of this, the music of good omens is something I have been ACTIVELY avoiding! The risks of hyperfixating and spiraling into it are HIGH!!! I spent so much of my life deeply entrenched in music, all genres, all time periods & It's hard not to have a proclivity toward it. But I also expect it to be a huge topic and a deep hole to inevitably fall into.

But could I hold out forever? no. and something finally pushed me over the edge. Wait for it..... Lost. Yep. The fucking TV show Lost. WAIT WAIT, don't leave! STAY WITH ME!

Why Lost? And what does it have to do with Moonlight Serenade and WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH GOOD OMENS?! Well my lovelies continue under the cut with me and keep an open mind...

Okay so... Lost. Yes, the insane 2004 mystery plane crash island adventure drama. It's a wild ride, and a masterpiece and a little bit crazy, but overall pretty damn good. I've been on a rewatch spree and wouldn't you know it... parallels between lost and Good Omens kept popping up in my brain!! I mean they are both detailed intricate mysteries so it makes a tad bit of sense but there was one little detail that *might* be a *clue* so I figured I'd make a post cause why not? I promise you don't need to know anything about Lost to follow this!!

First off, what are some of the recurring themes of Lost the TV show you might ask?

Life & Death

Timelines & Time Travel

Literary Allusions (Catch-22, The Bible, A Tale of Two Cities)

Prophecies & Premonitions

Symbolism of Black & White

Yeah okay, that tracks, but look there are 121 episodes of Lost and 12 episodes (so far) of Good Omens so there's bound to be some overlap for these two ineffable mysteries.

You'll be thinking about now, "BUT WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH MOONLIGHT SERENADE?!" I'm getting there, shhh, lemme pet your hair gently and keep giving you background information to build it up shhhh...

If you've never seen Lost there is a very good chance you're mighty confused at this moment, so let me reassure you, you don't need to know anything about it to understand the connections I'm going to make. A brief synopsis is: Oceanic flight 815 crashes on an island. The plane crash survivors quickly discover the island is more than it seems to be and holds many secrets and mysteries. A lot of people die, most of them are murdered, it's giving Lord of the Flies. That's honestly all you need to know.

Time Travel & Alternate Timelines

Time travel is cannon in Lost. It's super confusing and I'm not even going to try to explain any of it here. It's honestly just not worth it. If you'd like to try and read about it, the abridged version is here, but I don't think the details are important. Just know it's real and confirmed and exists.

Okay so, In Lost season 2, episode 13 "The Long Con" two of the plane crash survivors are trying to find a signal on a radio they've found. While scrubbing they come across a signal playing Moonlight Serenade by Glenn Miller. One character mentions it must be from somewhere nearby, but the other counters that this type of radio can pick up signals from anywhere in the world. There is a beat and then another character jokingly adds "Or any time. Just kidding, dude."

It's later confirmed that the Lost characters in 2004 are indeed picking up a radio signal from 1940 that is playing Moonlight Serenade, a product of time travel.

Congratulations, you've made it to the point where I'm going to bring Good Omens into the mix. In season 2, episode 4 "The Hitchhiker" we open seeing Aziraphale driving back from Edinburgh late at night/early morning. Uncomfortable with the darkness and silence he asks the Bentley to "play something that's got a bit of swing? I'm in the mood for something modern."

The Bentley obliges the angel, as she always will, and we are shown a shot of the radio specifically lighting up, so we know she's tapped into the radio to play this for Azi.

But hold on. Aziraphale asked for "modern"? Moonlight Serenade is most certainly not modern. It was recorded in 1939! I'd say in 2023 it's anything but modern, maybe not in Aziraphale's long lived opinion, but certainly in the Bentley's opinion, given she's only a 97 year old car.

I think you can see now what I'm saying here. I think the Bentley picked up a radio signal from 1940, maybe 1941? Episode 4 is of course our 1941 blitz magic show bullet catch flashback extravaganza, so... it makes sense. I know we like to headcanon Crowley and Aziraphale listened to A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square in the bookshop in 1941 after the bullet catch, but what if they heard Moonlight Serenade on the radio instead?

What does it mean?

I think it could be a *clue*. A reference to this small moment from Lost and a nod to the first hint of the canonization of time travel in that series. We know Crowley can control time to some extent and we can see some evidence of time discontinuities and possibly time weirdness in season 2 so is it a hint that timeline funkiness IS happening? Do I want to get into the fact that the main character in The Hitchhiker, the Twilight Zone episode this episode is named after, is actually dead? No I don't, not now anyway.

SO! There it is... weird little connection that I couldn't get out of my brain. It just seemed a bit too... ineffable.

As always this is all for fun and all for fans! Don't ask Neil about these things, they're for us to have fun with. And something else that I don't think some people on here understand about meta-analysis; the goal of it is not necessarily to be correct. It can be, if that's your thing. Refuting peoples posts, theories, analysis, and headcanons because you personally don't agree with them and telling them they're wrong and stupid doesn't achieve anything. Meta-analysis is an exercise in critical thinking and creative writing. You could write meta about how Spongebob is a critique of the loss of christian values in modern society and you wouldn't be right or wrong, you'd just certainly be a person who wrote that for sure though. Just, be kind to each other, share ideas, you're allowed to disagree with someone's ideas or have different ones of your own but don't be cruel in saying so, don't call someone stupid, that's just silly.

Love you all, do something kind for yourself today <3

ps. The moment I see Michael Sheen with blonde hair come January I'm gonna bark like a dog, that's all. Thanks.

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heronroseeros · 2 months

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super incredible personal life-changing vital to me that Storybrook's clock tower is set to 8:15 aka Oceanic Airways Flight 815 in the Once Upon a Time pilot. Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis deserve a fun treat for that.

#lost #ouat #once upon a time #ouat 1x01 #adam horowitz #edward kitsis #lost abc #hre: television #this should not be news to me but some of us watched these shows as children and are just now able to critically analyze meaningfully #television #oceanic flight 815 #oceanic airways

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justafanbutcurious · 6 months

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Lost

Series

(2004-2011)

Starring:

Matthew Fox

Evangeline Lilly

Josh Holloway

Jorge Garcia

Naveen Andrews

Dominic Monaghan

Terry O'Quinn

Yoon-Jin Kim

Emilie de Ravin

#lost #abc #finding new series #tv series #mystery #the others #oceanic flight 815 #jack shephard #emilie de ravin #evangeline lilly #island #dharma #Spotify

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pedroam-bang · 2 years

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Kate Austen, passanger of Oceanic Flight 815 - Lost (2004-2010)

#2004 #2010 #film #series #TV show #television #Lost #J.J. Abrams #Damon Lindelof #Evangeline Lilly #Kate Austen #Oceanic Flight 815 #4 8 15 16 23 42 #108

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vangold · 2 years

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Underlost - Chapter 1 - Part 2

Welp, enough of the sleeping. Lets have some fine chaos and rescuing and exploding statist-characters :P

Also we already get the first hint of it that - oh wonder in a comic of mine - not all of the surviving passengers have English as their mother tongue. No worries at least about the French guy tho. He currently panics a bit, on a normal base his English is rather fluid tho :)

#Underlost #tales of the underverse #undertale #UnderlostFrisk #Lost #Crossover #Oceanic Flight 815 #AU #Miki Kiyoshi #Undertale Comic #Jack Eustis #Lily Thompson #Dorothy Gardner #Alex Tailor #Phillip von Aschenberg #Walter Wite

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w1ng3dw01f · 4 months

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The Flower Called Nowhere And Lost

So, like, I need y’all to look at the lyrics of the Flower Called Nowhere by Stereolab with me.

“All the small boats on the water

Aren't going anywhere

Surely they must be loaded with

More than simple matter

Floating on top and gracefully

Tending to the same pole

All the small boats on the water

Going nowhere

Is it true that none of them

Will ever break free and sail?

Feel the night is made of rocks

The stagnant mass

Is it true that none of them

Will ever break free and sail?

Break free from the stagnant boats

Left in obscurity, left in obscurity

All the faces with their eyes closed

Giving a smile, weightless

Like a body that would vacate

To its own light

Is it true that none of these

Contented, happy faces

Will not ever hear a cry?

Won't hear a cry?

Is it true that none of these

Contented, happy faces

Will not ever hear a cry?

Filled with love, not with desire

Love, not desire

All the small boats on the water

Aren't going anywhere

Surely they must be loaded with

More than simple matter

Floating on top and gracefully

Tending to the same pole

All the small boats on the water

Going nowhere

Is it true that none of them

Will ever break free and sail?

Break free from the stagnant boats

Left in obscurity”

It reminds me of so many things regarding Lost!!

firstly, this feels like something Juliet would listen to because of Edmund Burke.

Secondly, with the lives The Others had on the island, like

they’re all tethered to the Island and to Ben if that makes sense.

Then, it also makes me think of how some of the 815 crash survivors never make it off the island.

Finally, it reminds me of how Richard specifically is tethered to the island and to Jacob.

I can’t not associate this song with this show anymore.

I would like to know y’all’s thoughts on this.

#lost tv show #abc lost #lost abc #juliet burke #richard alpert #benjamin linus #song and tv show parallels #The Flower Called Nowhere by Stereolab #Oceanic flight 815 #Fellas I’ve been stewing with this information for WEEKS

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wickedhawtwexler · 10 months

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when an actor from lost is in fringe

#i just think the fringe team would have had fun investigating oceanic flight 815 #morgan watches fringe

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acerebral · 1 year

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some people in the From subreddit keep theorising about why all of the characters come from america but no one ever says that maybe it’s because it’s an american show written by americans who never think about the world outside of america

#from #same reason oceanic airlines flight 815 from sydney to LA had 90% american passengers and 5% australian

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linusbenjamin · 8 months

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19 years ago today, Oceanic Flight 815 crashed.

#lost #lostedit #tvedit #lost spoilers #jack shephard #kate austen #charlie pace #shannon rutherford #john locke #james sawyer ford #nikolatexla #the best show in tv history premiered 19 years ago today #i'll always be insane about this show #it has the best pilot best characters best plot best opening scene best soundtrack etc etc #i lowkey wanna gif every episode of lost like this according to the date it aired

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ljones41 · 14 days

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"LOST" Retrospect: "Who Ordered the Dharma Initiative Purge?"

Years ago, I had a written an article that speculated on which character from the ABC series, "LOST", was responsible for an incident called "the Dharma Purge". After a few re-watches of the series, I wrote this revision of the ARTICLE.

"LOST" RETROSPECTIVE: "WHO ORDERED THE DHARMA INITIATIVE PURGE?"

Seven years ago, I had written this article about a major incident on the ABC television series, "LOST". This incident happened to focus on the murders or "Purge" of the scientific research organization known as the Dharma Initiative. It happened on December 19, 1992; nearly twelve years before the series began and before the crash of Oceanic Airlines 815 flight.

In the Season Five episode, (5.10) "He's Our You", Oceanic Flight 815 survivor and later, time traveler Sayid Jarrah tried to murder young Ben Linus in 1977. In the following episode, another Oceanic time traveler, Dr. Jack Shephard, refused to treat the badly wounded Ben, who was near death. Eventually, two other time traveling castaways, James "Sawyer" Ford and Kate Austen, had taken Ben to the Others aka the Hostiles aka the Natives, a group of island inhabitants who served as its protectors on the behalf of the main protector Jacob, for treatment via Dr. Juliet Burke's instructions. Within a decade-and-a-half, Ben ended up ousting future billionaire Charles Widmore as leader of the Others.

Ever since the series had first aired, many fans had been uncertain of when Ben's tenure as the Others' leader had began - before or after the Purge. As I had stated earlier, the Purge occurred in December 1992, on the same day as Ben's birthday and during the same month as the Others' rejection of Widmore as their leader. Many fans and television critics had automatically assumed Ben had ordered the Purge. I have heard comments that compared Ben to Adolf Hitler. I have also heard comments that compared Ben’s younger self to a "young Hitler". Many people have claimed that it was Ben who had ordered the deaths of the Dharma Initiative members. However, I have my doubts.

During Seasons Three and Four, Ben had offered contradicting comments on whether or not he had ordered the Dharma Initiative Purge. In (3.23) "Through the Looking Glass", he had claimed responsibility of the Purge to Jack:

"Not so long ago, Jack. I made a decision that took the lives of over forty people in a single day"

Unfortunately, Ben had contradicted this claim in two other episodes. In the Season Three episode, (3.20) "The Man Behind the Curtain", he had said this to Oceanic survivor John Locke, while he displayed the remains of Dharma members at a mass grave:

"This is where I came from, John. These are my people. The Dharma Initiative. They came here seeking harmony, but they couldn't even co-exist with the Island's original inhabitants. And when it became clear that one side had to go, one side had to be purged, I did what I had to do. I was one of the people that was smart enough to make sure that I didn't end up in that ditch. Which makes me considerably smarter than you, John."

Ben never claimed responsibility for ordering the Purge to Locke. He had confessed to participating in the Purge. That same episode made it clear that his participation involved killing his abusive father, Dharma Initiative worker, Roger Linus. In fact, Ben also made the same thing clear in the Season Four episode, (4.11) "Cabin Fever", when he had the following conversation with another Oceanic castaway, Hugo "Hurley" Reyes:

HURLEY: So... This is where you shot Locke and left him for dead, huh? BEN: Yes, Hugo, I was standing right where you are now when I pulled the trigger. Should have realized at the time that it was pointless, but... I really wasn't thinking clearly. [Hurley steps back a little] HURLEY: Is that why you killed all these people, too? BEN: I didn't kill them. HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn't wipe out the Dharma Initiative -- BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn't my decision. HURLEY: Then whose was it? BEN: Their leader's. HURLEY: But I thought you were their leader. BEN: Not always.

Interesting. He had admitted to trying to kill Locke in "The Man Behind the Curtain". But he denied being the one who had ordered the Purge. Also, Ben had been truthful when he told Hurley that he had not always been the Others' leader. The series had featured three other leaders - the ageless Richard Alpert (who eventually became the future leaders' advisor), Eloise Hawking and Widmore. Although some fans remain convinced that Ben had ordered the Purge, there are a good number of fans who hold Widmore responsible.

Thanks to a flashback in the Season Five episode called (5.12) "Dead Is Dead" - viewers learned that Widmore had definitely been the leader of the Others back in 1988. And in another Season Four episode called (4.09) "The Shape of Things to Come", viewers learned in a flash forward scene set in London that Ben had taken the leadership of the Others away from Widmore:

WIDMORE: I know who you are, boy. What you are. I know that everything you have you took from me. So... Once again I ask you: Why are you here? BEN: I'm here, Charles, to tell you that I'm going to kill your daughter. Penelope, is it? And once she's gone... once she's dead... then you'll understand how I feel. And you'll wish you hadn't changed the rules. [Widmore shifts in his bed.] WIDMORE: You'll never find her. [Ben turns to leave.] WIDMORE: That island's mine, Benjamin. It always was. It will be again.

I found it interesting that Widmore had regarded the island as "his". And there were other aspects of Widmore that I found interesting. The Season Five episode, (5.03) "Jughead", had revealed Widmore as a member of the Others, as far back as 1954 (when he was seventeen years-old). As one of the Others, Widmore (along with Richard and Hawking) had participated in a previous purge - that of U.S. Army personnel, who had brought a hydrogen bomb nicknamed "Jughead" with them to the island. On other occasions, Widmore had this inclination to kill anyone he deemed a threat to the island's secrecy. He killed a fellow Other to prevent the latter from leading Locke, Sawyer and Juliet to Richard's location in 1954. The 1988 flashback from "Dead Is Dead" revealed Ben's refusal to kill Danielle Rousseau and her baby, Alex. Instead, he claimed Alex as his child and threatened Danielle to stay away. This decision had angered Widmore, who had expected Ben to kill both. Why were Danielle and Alex's deaths that important to Widmore? Ironically, Widmore finally got his way regarding Danielle and Alex, thanks to Martin Keamy, the mercenary he had sent to the island to snatch Ben in Season Four.

So, when did Ben Linus replace Charles Widmore as leader of the Others? Before December 19, 1992? Or after? The photograph below from "The Man Behind the Curtain" hints that Ben had remained a worker for the DHARMA Initiative during that period, despite joining the Others sometime in the 1980s:

But had Ben assumed leadership of the Others by then? If not, does that mean Charles Widmore was still leading the Others in December 1992? Both the LOSTPEDIA and the WIKIPEDIA sites claimed that Richard Alpert had led the Others' purge against the Dharma Initiative in 1992. But neither site made it clear who had ordered the Purge. And "Dead Is Dead" never gave a clear date on Widmore's exile.

One would assume my choice for the man responsible for ordering the Purge would be Widmore. And you would be right. There seemed a good deal of evidence making him responsible. He had already participated in an earlier purge back in 1954. Ben had revealed time and again his willingness to use violence - even kill those he deemed a threat to himself or for emotional reasons. But the series had also revealed Widmore's willingness to do the same and especially kill in the name of protecting the island. Even ordering Ben to kill an emotionally unstable Danielle Rousseau and her infant child. Widmore had also sent the murderous Martin Keamy to the island in late Season Three-Season Four to snatch Ben. He had claimed to Locke in (5.07) "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" that he had done so to give Locke the opportunity to become the Others' new leader. Yet, his words to Locke contradicted his words to Ben in London, when he had claimed the island as "his". This scene had occurred nearly a year or more after the events of Season Four.

There is also the matter of whether Keamy had another agenda - namely to kill any of the Oceanic survivors that remained. In "Cabin Fever" he had demanded Sayid reveal the number of other Oceanic survivors and their location. Fortunately, the latter had refused. In a confrontation with the freighter's Captain Gault, Keamy revealed his intentions to "torch" the island. Some claimed that this had been Keamy's angry reaction to his men being attacked by the Smoke Monster. But there was the revelation that Widmore had set up a false location for the missing Oceanic 815 plane - with a plane wreck and dead bodies included. This is merely an assumption of mine, but I believe Widmore had sent Keamy to not only snatch Ben, but kill the remaining Oceanic survivors as well to maintain the narrative. I found a good deal of clues that led me to suspect Widmore had ordered the Dharma Purge.

After watching the series more than once, I find it increasingly difficult to hold Ben responsible. His actions against the Oceanic castaways featured spying, kidnapping, harassment, threats and manipulation. He rarely resorted to murder - aside from his attempt to kill Locke and his order to kill Sayid, Jin Kwon and Bernard Nader during the events in the Season Three finale, (3.23) "Through the Looking Glass, Part 2". If Ben was truly capable of ordering the Purge, he would have wiped out (or tried) the Oceanic survivors after getting Jack to remove the tumor from his spine. The man seemed incapable of following Widmore's orders to kill Danielle and Alex.

In the end, viewers know that Charles Widmore had been the leader of the Others in 1988-89, when ordered Ben Linus to kill Danielle Rosseau and her infant daughter . . . and he refused. Viewers also know that Richard Alpert led a group of Others in the Purge against the U.S. Army in 1954. He also led the Others' purge against the Dharma Initiative on December 19, 1992. On that same date, Ben killed his father, Roger Linus, in a similar manner – by toxic gas. And viewers know that Ben eventually replaced Widmore and exiled the latter off the island. Personally, I suspect Widmore had ordered the Purge against Dharma. But I suspect it was an order he did not make lightly. But I cannot say with any authority that Widmore had ordered the Dharma Initiative Purge. If we only knew exactly when Widmore had been exiled, perhaps this mystery of the Purge will finally be cleared.

#lost #lost tv show #lost tv series #lost tv #lost 3x20 #3x20 the man behind the curtain #the dharma initiative #the dharma initiative purge #the dharma purge #ben linus #michael emerson #charles widmore #alan dale #richard alpert #nestor carbonell

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lowcountry-gothic · 5 months

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Lost Tarot Cards: Mr. Eko as The Priest.

Armed with a ‘Jesus stick’ carved with Bible verses, the soft-spoken Eko serves, for a time, as a spiritual leader to the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815, building a makeshift church and doling out wisdom with either a scowl or a sweet smile. While certainly not without sin, Eko's own bitter experience with faith and doubt make him a wise man often capable of seeing past appearances and looking true darkness in the eye without fear.

#mine #tarot #lost #lostedit #lost tarot #mr. eko

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rixareth · 2 months

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Top 5 lost ships

Jack/Kate is my favourite Lost ship. They really took me by surprise! At first, I didn't think Jack/Kate was going to work for me; it felt like the show was pushing them at each other too hard and too early. But I ended up finding them really compelling. They have such weird, intense feelings about each other!

In second place: everyone/everyone. I enthusiastically ship pretty much all the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 in a big poly mess.

Sayid/Kate! They had really good chemistry and worked well as a team. My heart skipped a beat when he kissed her hand.

Honestly, Kate had something fascinating going on with Edward Mars, the marshal who'd dedicated himself to catching her. It was clear they'd come to know each other well in their time as enemies. I always wanted to know more about their relationship.

I sidle up to the microphone, whisper, 'Boone/Shannon was interestingly messed up,' and run away while people throw rocks at me.

#lost #ask

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erikiara80 · 2 years

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Stranger Things analyses and theories

Parallels with other stories

BYLER-POLIVIA parallel and other parallels with Fringe

Big parallel with IT-The Dark Tower: Will and the god-like Turtle

If Will is paralleled to the Turtle, El is paralleled to the cyborg Bear

The mystery of the only person who went missing before Will (1923)

More on the 1923 mystery

Ghostbusters parallel could explain why the library is important

The mystery of the suicide in 1961

8:15pm, parallel with LOST Oceanic Flight 815

Will, The Last Dragon and the power of the Glow

The Dark Crystal poster in Mike's room

THEORY: a car crash in the winter of 1976 changed everything

Hints that a car crash separated the Hopper family (Part I)

Hints that a car crash separated the Hopper family (Part II)

Kali, Jopper and Terry's message

- WILL BYERS: theories about powers, birthdaygate, his role in S5

About Will: S5 spoilers, UD flashbacks and Nina flashbacks parallels, Will's connection to Vecna/UD

Why Byler and Will having powers wouldn’t come out of nowhere

Vecna took Will at Castle Byers. The Demogorgon wasn't alone

Is Will in a Vecna vision at the end of S4?

How did El recognize Will in the photo?

Birthdaygate: he writers didn't forget Will's birthday: all the birthdays references since S1

Birthdaygate and Will the Wise

Birthdaygate: a different take + possible clue on the ST IG account

(A bit of) birthdaygate: connection Arcade scene in S2 and roller ring scene in S4

Will’s powers, Forever Clock and Cerebro (+ parallel with My Little Pony)

Did Will cast Fog Cloud in the tunnels in 2x06?

Joyce really sees Will in 1x04: parallel with 2x05

Will’s role in S5 in a super short post

Another super short post on Will’s role in S5

The russian prisoners, the lab kids, Will, El and tears in time and space

KALI

Spiders and butterflies

All the signs in 2x07 that make Kali sus

Parallels and connection between 2x07 and 4x07

WILLEL AND TWELVEGATE theories

Terry’s memories are different from El’s

Hints in every season that Jopper were married in the OG timeline

Why so many mentions of Barb in S4? Because it's not just about Nancy, Barb is paralleled to El

Will and El parallels in 4x05

Another Jopper scene with hints at them being married

Hint that Joyce is the biological mother of three kids

Brenner and Twelvegate

Little parallel Jonathan-Will and Jonathan-El

Jancy’s first lie scene in S2 could be a parallel with Jopper and the curse

Joyce and Hopper communicating with Will with or without words

Jopper sweet scene in Russia that could hint at Willel twins

Willel, Byler, Twelve and labyrinths

Willel and Twelvegate: Will, El and Joyce parallels

Analysis of the newspapers: inconsistencies are hints

Terry and Joyce connection in the S1 articles

Analysis of the Hawkins Post article in S3

Ray Carroll (S2) and the hidden connection to Hopper and Vietnam

Connection El-basketball article in 4x01

THE FIRST SHADOW

Something about Alice/Virginia's age

The cast

Brenner-Henry, Lonnie-Jon, Hopper-Will

WILL AND JONATHAN

A beautiful bond

BYLER

Why Will won’t be rejected by Mike (about the 80s and queer love)

Keys, Willel and Byler

Mike’s respect and admiration for Will

Will’s painting is even on Dustin’s shirt

Analysis of 3X03: Byler and other theories

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #st s5 spoilers #el hopper #st s5 #will has powers #henry creel #the first shadow spoilers #st the first shadow #the byers brothers #jonathan byers #timeline theory #time loop theory #st theory #st analysis #st vecna #stranger things

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aaronsrpgs · 9 months

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On Finishing Lost in 2023, In an Alternate USA From the One Oceanic Flight 815 Was Headed Toward

I started watching Lost with a very treasured friend on August 6, 2022. She'd seen it multiple times before, including when it was first airing; she'd even gone to Hawaii and experienced a "Lost tour" where she got to see the sets.

I'd seen half an episode while drunk circa 2008 and knew there was a smoke monster, time travel, and a despised final season.

Watching the show with my friend was a great social experience, and the social experience seems like it'll continue as I encounter other people who have seen it. And I liked the show okay! Like, a solid B. I give the same grade to the final season and the final episode. Which brings some angry responses from some people I've talked to.

Spoilers for Lost below.

FLASHBACK People who watched the show as it aired often went to message boards to discuss theories and to conventions to ask questions of the writers and producers of the show. There is a feeling (from people I've talked to who were there) that promises were made: everything will be explained in the end.

And the show's many mysteries, catalogued on forums and fan sites, were NOT explained (the story goes). And so the show was ruined. END FLASHBACK

Before going any further, it might help to watch this video essay, "Annihilation and Decoding Metaphor" by Folding Ideas. Basically, he explains that some stories are metaphorical, and as such, they don't always make literal sense. (I'm doing the essay a disservice explaining it that way; go watch it if you have time.)

Lost works best when viewed this way, as a metaphor, and I was lucky to experience without the paratext of message boards, creator commentaries, and an enforced weekly timeslot across six years.

So what are the themes of Lost, and how does it use its components to explore those themes?

First, Lost is a Robinsonade. Like Robinson Crusoe, it puts a bunch of people on a (seemingly) deserted island to see what they do. Key to most Robinsonades are:

What do we bring with us (personal, material, and cultural)?

What do we leave behind (personal, material, and cultural)?

And from those questions, how do the enforced scarcities (lack of food, water, infrastructure, human company and social structures) keep us from building our idealized form of society away from the world? And how do our internalized notions of what society should be keep from enjoying a potential Eden?

Before it gets tied in to any metaplot about the history of the island and the other people on it, Lost is a cast of people who are deeply traumatized, usually by fathers, wealth, and a mix of the two.

John Locke is directly traumatized by his father, who is responsible for him being in a wheelchair. Jack is trying to please his hyper-competent, also-alcoholic father who is now dead, making him impossible to please. Kate's stepfather is abusive, and her real father is gone. Sun's father is a wealthy businessman/gangster who also holds sway over Jin (who has the only nice dad). Hugo's dad disappeared and only comes back when Hugo wins the lottery decades later. Desmond is in love with a woman whose dad thinks he isn't good enough. Charlie and his brother get too famous too fast in a band inspired by their patriarchal heritage. Michael is himself a dad, and often a bad one (an example of the show's ongoing bad portrayal of people of color). Boone and Shannon are part of a fucked up family. Claire's dad is missing, as is the father of the baby she carries. Woof!

(Sayid is the only one seemingly free of hangups about wealth and dads. This often frees him from the rest of the group's hangups, letting him solve problems that no one else could. He is instead traumatized by war and his role as a torturer; no one gets off scot free in a soap opera.)

And while the show initially seems interested in some of the material scarcities of living on an island (food, medicine, water), all of this is ameliorated by the start of season two, with mysterious shipments of food and a hatch full of living supplies. Lost is clearly more interested in the personal and cultural hangups of a Robinsinade, only occasionally using material scarcity to heighten those personal issues. This isn't a show about creating new foodways for a post-capitalist world. It's about fucked up people who may or may not want to become less fucked up.

So let's talk about that! Lost's island is magic. It heals the sick (John Locke and Rose prime among them), giving them another chance at life. It's also unstuck in space and time, and there are forces at work that keep people from leaving. So even if you don't want another chance at life, you're FORCED to try. You can't get home, back to the systems you're used to, so you either have to try something new or constantly work against the people who are building something on the island.

The people who have the hardest time with this are Sawyer and Jack. Sawyer, despite seeming like a rebel, is entrenched in his life as a con man, a life he initially pursued for personal vengeance. But now he's done it so long, he doesn't know how to do anything else. And Jack has spent so long trying to please his doctor father by becoming a perfect doctor himself, through constant discipline and eschewing personal relations, that he can't do anything else on the island; he seizes control and tries to be perfect at everything.

But the island is unrelenting at its insistence that you try again to become a better person. There is something at its core ("negatively charged exotic matter") that produces all these strange effects. A group of people, the Others, have been on the island guarding for thousands of years at the instruction of Jacob, who inherited guardianship from a strange and violent woman. He follows the tradition she sat down without question. She's kind of a dad in that way.

So here are a bunch of people fucked up by capitalism and the patriarchy. John Locke had offered his trust over and over back in the old world, and he always came out worse for wear (betrayed, eviscerated, paralyzed), but he is resilient enough to keep trusting. He wants everyone to live a beautiful life on the island. (He gets betrayed and killed for his efforts. More on that later.)

People being people, though, they continue to fuck up their new chances at life. They steal, murder, and betray. They break promises. That's one constant in Lost: whenever anyone takes a moral stand, they inevitably change their mind. When two sides are formed in opposition, the boundaries are always permeable, and people go back and forth. The characters are weirdly realistic that way, and they resist becoming metaphors; they're slippery.

Even the Others, promised to protect the magic and sanctity of the island, fuck up. Benjamin Linus, the man in charge (and son of a bad dad, and bad dad in his own right) is a weird hybrid of islander (believer in the power of the island) and outsider (wanting to harness the island). Even with everyone changing their minds constantly, he manages to switch sides the most. And the victim of this is John Locke, who decided to trust Ben just like he tried to trust everyone else.

John Locke was the person who most embodied the possibilities of Robinsonade, who had a new chance at life and wanted to give that gift to everyone else. But Benjamin Linus was too tainted by scarcity: if someone else got what the island promised, that meant he couldn't have it. He split the force that was so huge as to be unsplittable.

So when everyone's ruining the possibilities of a Robinsinade, insisting on returning to their own lives or bringing the worst parts of the world to the island, the island gives them another chance. It sends people back in time. It gives them more understanding of its possible powers. It shows them life back home so that they'll be ready to try the island again.

And then Lost shows us its foundation. It shows us Jacob and his unnamed brother, indoctrinated by a murdering woman who is as unwilling to share the island's power as Ben is. The unnamed brother seems clever, and he seems ready to learn how to share the island's power to free people from scarcity and tradition. And the murdering mother seems to see him as an end to her own trauma. But Jacob, who lacks creativity, gets jealous and throws the nameless brother into the negatively charged exotic matter (which we never see; we only see light).

Lostopedia says the brother becomes the smoke monster, an evil force that longs to escape the island, which Jacob insists will bring evil to the world. But it seems more like Jacob released the smoke monster or created it by committing an evil act, insisting that the island's power can't be shared, and using it to limit life instead of freeing it. The nameless brother dies. The smoke monster persists. This smoke monster goes on to influence Ben, who feels the same way about the island's power.

People are so fucked up, right?

And eventually, aggressively confident Jack becomes the new Jacob. He inherits the traditions that Jacob hands down and tries to do the same things Jacob does. But in the end, perhaps influenced by all the chances he's had at remaking his life alongside influences from John Locke and his other fellow castaways, he sacrifices himself to save the island, and he names Hurley as his successor.

At this point, Hurley is the only non-white member of the main cast who hasn't died. He's similar to John Locke in that he's trusting of people and sees the good in them, but he also had his life literally destroyed by wealth and fame. And now he's in charge of the island's power.

(Jack had to sacrifice himself because the island's power/light was uncorked by Desmond, who thought he would be "sent somewhere else" by doing so. Desmond, you shouldn't be somewhere else! You should be on the island building a new life! You abused the island's power. But like everyone else, you get another chance.)

The final season, instead of flashing back like most of the show, flashed "sideways." At first, it seemed like a parallel universe where everyone's life was different, less traumatic, from the start. In the finale, this is revealed to be a kind of purgatory where everyone went after they died. Another chance to get it right. Things are better than the main plot of the show, but things are still bad! But they get to find each other here without the trauma of crashing on an island, without going to war with the Others, and in doing so, they gain the benefit of those situations without causing those problems. And when they find each other, they get to move on into more yellow light. Maybe to a more permanent resting place, but probably to another iteration, where they try again with a bit more experience, a bit more help, and a lot less taint of capitalism and bad dads.

Some other random thoughts: we get to see Hurley in charge of the island in the epilogue, and he's not following the same rules. He isn't out preaching the power of the island, but people are a bit more free to come and go. Folks can get acclimated to the possibility of freedom, little vaccine boosters of freedom and magic against the ongoing diseases of society.

And what about the unsolved mysteries? The numbers?! I don't know. If we believe a series of numbers is important, we make note of them everywhere. We assign meaning to their repetition. But there are only ten numbers. Of course we see them everywhere. And each time we see them, we bring new meaning to them. Another chance to see ourselves. Another chance to get it right.

Or at least that's the meaning I brought to the show in 2023, when freedom from capitalism and bad dads feels both impossible and closer than it ever was.

#lost #tv

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books-movies-anime-shows-games · 1 month

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The Lost Novels - tales of unnamed passengers of Oceanic flight 815 🧐

#my stuff #lost #lost series

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fereldanwench · 2 months

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so i finished my lost rewatch last week, but i have this problem in which i often cant just let a show end and i have to immediately restart it, which means I'm watching s1 again lmao

s1 i think will always have comfort show status in the spirit of the x files or roswell--i had the box set in college, and i pretty much always had it on when i was chilling in my bedroom. plus the star wars RPG i was really involved with at the time also had a lot of lost fans (soooo many face claims were actors from the show), which added to a fandom coziness

anyway, i just really like having it on in the background

but this also means i have Thoughts of varying import and controversy so under the cut it is

there have been a lot of jokes over the years about how oceanic flight 815 had a ridiculous amount of hot people on it, which is true, but i feel like shannon and boone are like a time capsule of early aughts hotness which i find kind of fascinating. shannon especially--tall, skinny, blonde, tan, square face--she is like the epitome of what was supposed to be hot for young women in 2004. which, uh, as a curvy brunette teen i thoroughly resented and probably contributed to some of my disdain for the character at the time lmao

still not really a huge fan of her character, though, even with that envy and contempt long behind me. and i will never understand what sayid sees in her--sayid has always been a fave, and i liked the scenes with him and shannon bc he's such a romantic and i love that about him, but i just have a hard time believing he'd be attracted to her personality-wise

i actually noticed there seems to be a little bit of chemistry between him and kate early on, which, yanno, she's obviously got her hands full with jack and sawyer, but i was like hmmm, that could be an interesting dynamic to explore. I'm not invested enough to read lost fanfic but if i was, that'd probably pull me in

i've also found myself liking claire a lot more now, although i will always find emilie de ravin's voice SO grating. and it's not the accent--her (bad) American accent in roswell didn't help either. she just sounds like she's always 3 seconds away from sobbing and i just wanna tell her to take a deep breath

i was always on the fence about charlie, and while there are things about his character i find sympathetic (namely his struggle with addiction), I've decided i don't like him lmao I've teared up quite a bit during my rewatch, and i remember crying when he died in s3 when it aired, but it did nothing for me this time around

you know what does make me tear up every single time despite knowing it's doomed (or maybe bc i know it's doomed)? the scene when they get michael's raft into the water in s1. hits me every time

i watched a video recently that showed the top googled shows over the past 2 decades or so, and while i was never super involved in the lost fandom, it did occur to me when i saw it listed as the number one show for a while that i think lost was probably the last major fandom to enjoy a pre-social media community. i mean it was like right on the cusp of web 1.0 and 2.0: a lot of the social media juggernauts like facebook and twitter would launch while it was on air, but i think most of the community still existed on personal sites and forums

#t: wench watches stuff #shows: lost

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