#HotD characterization
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Master Post of Anti-Criston Cole-ism
He was Never Raped or SA-ed
A) [HotD] HotD's Episode 4, from the Actor and Writers
i)
🔗LINK to Entertainment Weekly Article that Describes Frankel & Writers Making this Scene Consensual Sex Scenes where Criston "Chooses" to Forget his Vows
Neither of these reveal that either the actor nor the writers or directors wrote the sex scene to be something Criston was afraid of or didn't want. The way it's talked about, with people "discovering" each other and themselves shows consent and enjoyment. Frankel wanted to play out his fear of Criston's own desire to break his own vows and facing the guilt of that; Rhaenyra never pressured him into anything.
REMINDER: He's still not "commonborn" nor Dornish, since:
he has a last name, which peasants don't have AND his father/house is House Cole, stewards of the Dondarrions...the Tyrells at one point were stewards to House Gardner in the Reach & they were still nobles of that time, stewards don't mean full fledged "servants"
Blackhaven is in the Stormland part of the Dornish Marches, not the Dornish part of the Dornish Marches...Samwell Tarly's family's castle is in the foothill of a part of the Dornish Marches, ....Barristan Selmy's family's castle, Harvest Hill, is based in the Dornish Marches in Stormlander territory, so is Barristan Selmy Dornish? Cole is a Stormlander!
Marchers hate Dornish people more than other nonDornish Westerosi do...Criston said his dad was a steward of the nonDornish Dondarrions...HotD has never shown us whether either of his parents are Dornish by origin so what proof do we have he is Dornish even in the show?!!! And we see no discrimination (hint or overt) the court has against Cole...
lets' say that Cole was Dornish...the Velaryons are black and realisitically, even rich Black people do not manage to avoid subtle racial discrimination (there's a black woman on TikTok from a wealthy family that talks about it, idk her name)...so if Criston faces racism and the Velaryons don't either the writers are incompetent or don't know racism
Not only is this a misreading of what the Dornish Marches are on the HotD writers'/producers' part, it's a misreading or understanding of race either in medieval times or the modern day, AND people have tried to use a supposed racial disparity b/t Rhaenyra (Valyrian-Targ princess) to argue that Cole (the racially-inferior) felt racial pressure as well to comply to sleep with her and avoid censure or punishment if she blabs...as if his race would give him the right to sleep with a teen girl who some have argued was also very drunk here-- even if Criston was Dornish!
ii) [HotD] HotD's Episode 4, from the actual Episode
People don't know what SA or rape actually looks like...can we just, please?...
B) "If the Roles were Reversed" [HotD AND the Original Story]
i)
Rhaenyra didn't "make" him do anything b/c she doesn't have the ability to take on that new level of risk. So much protest using the "if the genders were reversed", and yet no acknowledgment or breakdown of what their respective unique positions are.
A male heir =/= a female heir in terms of power and privilege, gender really matters even here, as every source on the matter--whether HotD or the original story--has made every single minute to point out and emphasize...the only reason we are even talking about the Dance is that it was a group of people arguing that no woman should go before a man inn any line of succession which comes from the belief that women are inherently insufficient military leaders. And female chastity is a whole concept in of itself where the woman/girl must be sexually "pure" as to ensure that a man's and his family's lineage remains "proven" to be inherited by someone blood-connected to them. To preserve that wealth and privilege. etc., within that family. Female chastity - female "obedience" or submission to male supremacy.
Women could never be knights so they can never be Kingsguard.
Brienne is not a knight...yet[?], and she exists YEARS after the Dance; even if there were female monarchs before, check out real history for how medieval people regarded female rulers if they didn't happen to be very "good" ones...I mean just check out Juana I of Castile!
We can never equalize these situations in matter of gender because this society structures on the inequality of its genders.
A World of Ice and Fire shows us glaring examples of women over men being brutally sidelined or physically attacked to make way for male leaders or candidates (Shiera Blackwood, Agnes Blackwood, that unnamed Lannister woman who had to marry a non-Lannister man so he could take her name just so he could lead the Lannister house instead of her, Argella Durrandon, Marla Sunderland); Fire and Blood has a bunch of girls raped, mutilated, SA-ed or sexually manipulated so the men can inch their way towards power or to just feel in control (Cassandra Baratheon, Lucinda Penrose, those Tumbleton 8-year-olds, the septas, etc.).
Making as if sexual violence against men or just general violence against men is treated the same, as frequent, and socially justified as violence against women and girls both in real life and in the ASoIaF/HotD/GoT universes is disingenuous. As long as we live in a society where enough people think a woman's body is never totally her own, it never will be.
ii) Let's play with this "Reversal" Anyway:
a) We already see Rhaenyra-Criston in the version of her approaching him...
In F&B, we already have one verison of what happened b/t them in Mushroom telling us of a situation of Rhaenyra approaching Criston and Criston denying her, with no material consequences for him...and he freely decides to hate and try to destroy her anyway ("A Question of Succession"):
Even IF Rhaenyra approached Criston and in this way, she does not go to Viserys to ruin Cole or do anything else to him. She sleeps with Harwin instead. And why doesn't she go to Viserys to fuck Criston's life up? Bc he has been her trusted guard for ages, but also because of what I say below in section b) below and i) above.
Reminder, Viserys in both the show and book forces Rhaenyra to marry Laenor, and book!her explicitly is rumored to say she wanted Daemon. She faces censure or punishment, not Cole.
Show!Rhaenyra has also been "friends"/friendly with Cole for years; what reason do we have to expect or fear that she'd complain to Viserys? How much does Criston really expect Rhaenyra does, since he's the said friend in her "confidence"?
b) Occam's razor
Since women cannot be Kingsguard in Westeros, the female-Cole would either be a lower-ranked noble woman or she would be like Jonquil Darke, the female sworn-shield of Alysanne Targaryen (who still wasn't part of the Kingsguard). JD was also a Darkling bastard.
It's so very unlikely that even if female-Cole become the guard to young/older male-Rhaenyra.
That's inconceivable to these people. Why would the probably already-sword trained male-Rhaenyra need a personal female-guardsman when they'd have an actual Kingsguard knight (still all male) as the male-Rhaenyra's guard before a female warrior is ever considered? This is the mindest of these royals and nobles, btw.
And again, Jonquil was the protector of Alysanne, not Jaehaerys. But Jaehaerys did use Jonquil to stop Saera from running away, and this proves that Jonquil's "final boss" is and always has been Jaehaerys, aka, the Monarch, not the person she was protecting. If a male-Rhaenyra approached a female-Cole (but not a bastard) who was a sort of Jonquil Darke person, even with that female-Cole being well-versed in swordsmanship or anything physical to defend herself, the social consequences of that woman sleeping with a royal man while not being married to him is still as real and worse for her than for him. She'd be less willing to fully engage with him and dread the consequences of his growing angry with her.
What if female-Cole was just a regular noblewoman, either ranked high from a prestigious family/Great House (Starks, Martell, Hightowers, Lannisters, Manderlys] or from a lower ranked or not-as-prestigious and influential family (Tarlys, Selmys, Boltons, Wyls)? And male-Rhaenyra took a liking to female-Cole but didn't want to or expect to marry them?
Because female-Cole is a female noble and had grown up knowing that women & girls are socially condemned for actually practicing sexual autonomy, they'd be much more cautious and vulnerable to censure in either scenario:
If the female-Cole was from a more prestigious or "Great" House, male-Rhaenyra wouldn't as likely approach them unless they thought they'd be good for marriage because that house is powerful and important enough to put some pressure on them IF they ever found out. An affair is very possible, and depending on female-Cole's age and assessment of her own abilities and worth growing up female, we don't know whether they'd be willing to pursue a true consensual affair with male-Rhaenyra without there being a hope or guarantee for marriage. Because, like Lysa Tully, they still run the risk of tainting their family/house' image and face punishment or abuse from their own family if such affairs were made public. (If I have to explain Lysa Tully to people, they either forgot what happens b/t her & Petar Baelish or never read the bks, and if the latter they should not speak on anything to do with any character in things like this that requires lore knowledge AND some objectivity. Or they don't see what happened to her as "a big deal"...) Still, there is room for her to not want the attention because women are not a monolith of the exact same personalities or circumstances for us to believe every single woman would go for a real affair regardless of there being a desire or expectation of marriage. Thus what I describe below for lower ranked women/girls still counts. If anything, the stakes can be said to be higher because her family's prestige or power is so high that they could also take the path of blaming her. Therefore, a woman/girl of this group could still feel cornered.
If female-Cole came from a lower/less prestigious house, male-Rhaenyra is more interested & likelier of pursuing an affair or making female-Cole their paramour/mistress. Same situation, but the girl has even less reason to believe that there would be a marriage bc her house' rank/prestige/powers are so low for a possible marriage to the future King. She'd have to be either be mentally incapacitated (Priscella Hogg), under another immense pressure, or very young to believe that. So in this case, there is a stronger likelihood that if she sleeps with male-Rhaenyra, it's because she was cornered or felt she couldn't avoid him and had no assurances to avoid him later on. Or that he'd later feel slighted and begin rumors of her in court and her reputation gets ruined either way.
in either case, because male-Rhaenyra is a man while female-Cole isn't and men are far more likely to use physical force to intimidate or push a woman down then the reverse; men on average feel entitled to women's bodies' and attention, what more a royal prince like Aegon & Aemond? (I didn't use these examples by accident: that 12 yr old "paramour" Septon Eustace informs us and Alys Rivers)
And male-Rhaenyra would be the heir, still. There would be no doubt against male-Rhaenyra because she'd be male, male leaders are credited their deserving to rule armies by being male. His path to ascension is clearer than what real-Rhaenyra currently and will have to face. Male-Rhaenyra has no reason to even be all that secretive with female-Cole if he did intend on making her his paramour & he thought he'd get away with just making her his paramour...which is most likely a woman in a much lower "rank" or of a family with much lower powers than some others. Yes, Viserys would say that he is acting "unseemly", he could be called stupid or reckless, and some lords and ladies would think he's acting too licentuously...but no one would begrudge or hate male-Rhaenyra long for extramaritally/premaritally sleeping with a woman of any origin as to say they were a "whore" or try to use this as their primary reason be shouldn't be the next King. The "new" greens don't as much shit to stand on. They'd look silly(ier) for actually using this as a reason to say he shouldn't be King.
Female-Cole has little to no leverage against a male-Rhaenyra in the specific moment of a sexual cornering bc there is simply more risk for her than for him based on their respective genders AND ranking. We can't separate the two, they will inform the other.
Cole-Cole has more social leverage than a woman actually corned by a male higher-ranking noble/royal bc Rhaenyra-Rhaenyra's reputation can be ruined a lot easier than a male heir's. In any iteration, female-Cole rather than Cole-Cole has more risk & pressures in because women are given less grace in events where it's known they extramaritally/premaritally sleep with a man. Because she's already side-eyed or doubted to be a capable leader or worthy, censures against her lack of practicing female obedience and chastity would make her seem less deserving of the throne and give her enemies more fuel to fire their own agenda.
Again, this hierarchical feudal society is built on making gender, class, etc. essential differences that grant individuals privileges over others.
Finally, Criston Cole, his relationship with Rhaenyra, AND their sex /how it happened cannot be compared to a modern-day boss-employee-relationship/sexual harassment sort of sex-reversed MeToo! situation. Viserys is, as many have said on both camps, Criston's real and unequivocal "boss". Really, this whole argument then diminishes what actual SA is and the MeToo! movement's focus on holding mainly male professional superiors accountable for willfully using their positions to assault those under them.
The writers trying to make Rhaenyra the one in with more psychological control over Criston when canonically there' isn't much evidence to support that is very suspicious.
Reasons to Hate Cole
A) Show/House of the Dragon
i)
Let's really think about Criston's suggestion to run away and marry.
The guy said this in episode 5 of season 1:
I've soiled my white cloak. And it's the only thing I have to my fսck¡ng name! I thought if we were married, I might be able to restore it.
Criston's logic reveals he's more concerned about retaining his own sense and perception of his honor and not "honor" in general bc running away to elope would bring great disgrace to both his and Rhaenyra’s families & houses. Not just Rhaenyra herself. If it is Rhaenyra's "duty" to marry Laenor, she would be breaking her vows to become Queen. If she runs away, she arguably broke her vows to "protect" the realm from the Others as by her and Viserys' conversation about Aegon's prophecy. Cole may not have heard this from Rhaenyra, but he didn't want to hear anything from her because all he wanted was for her to go along with what he wanted, not to actually listen to her any misgivings she may have had.
He looked at marriage as a way to "bring back" a sense of honor for himself. Vows hold "sacred" honor. Criston is trying to distance himself from the very idea of freely and willfully “soiling” his cloak by trying to "replace" his brken vows with new marriage vows.
Remeber, he consented to sex with Rhaenyra, so it was his willful decision to sleep with her and "soil" his own "cloak". The writers and the actor, again, both work in the understanding that Cole "chooses to lie with Rhaenyra" [top of this post].
Criston absolutely knows that she can't marry him in the usual, open way and still retain her position as heir or even as part of the royal family. He's asking her to abandon her entire family...let that sink in. It shows a gender disparity that does not justify "if the roles were reversed". Lower-ranked-Female-Cole would never and could never hope to convince the male-Rhaenyra to run away with her and start an entirely new life, abandon both of their families (for marriage specifically) bc he doesn't have to in order to marry her. He may lose some people's respect if he marries her, but the consequences for him versus a female heir are not the same. A female heir would have to run away & not be among other Westerosi nobles, become a peasant, etc. to marry someone like Cole. *EDIT (3/17/24)* Example: Prince Duncan and Jenny of Oldstones. *END OF EDIT*
He was attracted to her, but his main motivation was to escape the shame of his soiled cloak and soiled honor. That his honor is actually a lie, a made-up thing in itself. That he, himself, soiled it and thus he, himself, has made himself a liar.
ii)
He has been living in court being Rhaenyra’s personal guard for years. Some of us thought that he should have known that nobles largely do not follow the same rules that excuse their positions through rumors. That they withhold and lie to protect themselves. (And generally, humans are wont to try to bend their own rules to satisfy their own desires.)
And so we think that he should have done the same--patiently withhold information and observe what happens so he could adapt to it--while Alicent was getting to ask if Rhaenyra had slept with Daemon, and not if he slept with her.
It may not be faithful to one's vows, but if he actually knew what kind of person Rhaenyra was--that she would never run away with him (as he should after so many years of being with her and thus I think he did know but asked anyway, this he never really cared about her but himself)--then he should have never brought up the suggestion of running away or thought she'd ever marry him. What exactly did he think would happen for him after sleeping w/her? And as I argued, he had much more choice than some may think and took advantage of it. As nobles often do.
And yet, he decides that Rhaenyra is responsible for what he freely chose for himself AND what he could have easily avoided as a man/Kingsguard and her being female. And he does so so he can avoid accountability. Rhaenyra is much less likely to be able to & doesn't want to, once again, "make" him do anything with her. And Rhaenyra does not control Criston Cole's conscience nor his penis nor his reasoning.
Occam's razor again.
iii)
He decides to take it out on the Velaryon boys, as clued by what happens in the training yard of episode 6. It's obvious he refuses to treat them similarly to the green princes and train them at the same level. He's also much more physically rough with Jace than with either green boy. Finally he presses for Aegon to get more violent than necessary against Jace, clearly taking pleasure in vicarious revenge against Rhaenyra.
He's a loser who uses children's pain to inflict his own frustrations. And no, "illegitimate" children are not less human than "trueborn" ones.
B) Fire and Blood (The Original Story)
These are the versions of what happens b/t them, Septon Eustace's vs Mushroom's ("A Question of Succession"):
Really, alinahams already tackled this HERE, so check them out.
Excerpt:
In both versions, Criston is never involved with Rhaenyra in any way. Both versions take care to mention how it was all about Rhaenyra's choices about her life and body that bothered Criston and made him hate her. It's never about Criston being used and discarded.
That is what makes Criston an Incel and a villain. Rhaenyra never did anything wrong to him. She didn't do anything to deserve his life long hatred and betrayal. It was his own twisted madonna/whore complex that ruined his friendship with Rhaenyra.
Criston decides to make it his life mission to destroy Rhaenyra because he couldn't handle her making her own decisions, bc honestly even if she (a 16-17 yr old) had decided to try to seduce him as Viserra did with Baelon...did Baelon hold it against Viserra or say that she was a whore or try to condemn her or get back at her for daring to "disturb" him in his grief over his dead wife, their sister, Alyssa?
Even with Baelon being a prince to Criston's Kingsguard, we see that both Viserra & Rhaenyra were desperate to have some sense of control over their own bodies through sex--and for Viserra through a marriage to a more powerful man--because it is through sex and marriage that their entire autonomy is being taken away or suppressed. And some in this fandom have argued that Viserra was bad or amoral for trying to seduce Baelon in his grief, and some have even said she was trying to take advantage of him! But does Baelon think this way or try to "avenge" himself on her? No.
Why try to ruin her and her kids' entire lives? Once more, Rhaenyra, even in Mushroom's version, does not ever complain to Viserys or try to ruin Criston. So....
#criston cole#criston cole's characterization#fire and blood characters#hotd characterization#rhaenyra and criston#rhaenyra targaryen#rhaenyra's characterization#hotd episode 4#hotd episode 5#asoiaf#fire and blood#hotd#book vs tv show comparisons
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emma is really very good characterized as a targaryen, I think she's even much better than milly in the characterization (young Rhaenyra's wig is horrible) but i must say that emma and matt really don't have chemistry for me, she has charisma with olivia, and Milly and Matt are too creepy for me guys, I'm sorry...
I think visually Emma looks great as a Targaryen and perhaps if Emma was playing a different type of Targaryen(maybe someone along the lines of Visenya) I’d see it characterization-wise as well, but so far the performance is not like book!Rhaenyra.
I do agree that Milly’s performance is overhyped (she’s new so that isn’t a knock to her, but I wasn’t blown away by what I saw on screen) and I’m not seeing the chemistry people are talking about with Milly and Matt either.
It is creepy, especially that brothel scene 🤢(and it’s supposed to be creepy so the people saying it’s not really are an interesting bunch).
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i dont think otto and daemon had an actual serious relationship but i do think that as a part of daemon's pyschosexual fixation on his brother he drunkenly hit on otto and when otto reacted homophobically daemon got offended because?? wym you dont want to fuck me im literally daemon targaryen?? and otto was like. im not a filthy degenerate (same tone as 'or you, her childhood companion'). and daemon was like. clearly. whatever loser im too cool and hot for you and then went to his chambers and stared at the wall for twenty hours. the next day he met mysaria.
#otto hightower#daemon targaryen#hotd#asoiaf#ottomon#is that their ship name? lowkey fire…#im actually soooo excited for lady misery in season 2 i hope she gets an actual characterization and isnt just a plot device
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It's really weird how a lot of people in the got/hotd fandom don't seem to accept how grey grrm's characters are? Idk maybe I'm just on the wrong side of tumblr/tiktok, but...several things can be true at once.
Cersei Lannister can be an abuser, a killer, AND A VICTIM. She can love her children AND have deeply unhealthy relationships with them. Alicent Hightower can resent her children, have unhealthy relationships with them, have no idea how to parent them, and still love them. Rhaenyra can be the rightful heir to the iron throne with good intentions, and still seemingly have no idea how to rule. Viserys can make Rhaenyra his heir and talk about how much he loves Aemma and be a sh*t dad and partner. Sansa Stark can be mean to Arya and also a child whose behavior is reinforced by a guardian (the septa, who she is told to obey and learn from). Joffrey Baratheon can be a sadist who had to die for the good of the realm, and still a child. Robert can be funny and Ned's friend, and a terrible father and husband. Ned and Catelyn can be some of the best parents on either show, love each other and their kids, do everything for each other and their kids, and still have failed to prepare their children for the world they live in. The whole POINT of grrm's characters is that they're not good or evil, they're not black or white, their cruelty has a reason and they are all functioning within an inherently unjust society, and doing the best they can.
#alicent hightower#hotd#game of thrones#cersei lannister#sansa stark#rhaenyra targaryen#viserys targaryen#king viserys#ned stark#catelyn stark#joffrey baratheon#gray characteres
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i know hotd is still on season 1 and thats the reason but i want more discussion on aegon ii outside the family dynamics. aegon who made his sigil gold because thats his dragons color. the claimant who had to be convinced to take a throne he never really wanted. whose family and advisors were only too eager to fight a war on his behalf that was never his idea to begin with. the boy who was out of commission for most of his own war, recuping from injuries he took while dancing with dragons. the boy who fought again despite that, who flew to dragonstone, who avenged his sons. the king whom they had to poison to finally kill. isnt that what all the boys want in the stories? to bond with dragons and ride and fight, and be brave even when it hurts?
none of this need have happened. the pain did not make him better. but all the same, a man was forged from the boy amidst the fire of war.
#hotd spoilers#fire and blood#aegon ii targaryen#sunfyre#aegon the elder#obviously being a man in this story is not always about being a good person#and often goes hand in hand with being the chain and prison to the women in your life#and ofc its hard to empathize with his character when the shows first characterization of him was as a rapist and the books imply it too#but for one moment i wanted to celebrate the positive aspects of aegon ii#because i dont see it being done really#valyrianscrolls
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i love it when the voices start speaking to me and they make me realize that the reason i sympathize and feel bad for alicent’s children is because i AM alicent’s children.
i’m the child being overlooked in favor of someone else, the ones who have to watch their mother beg for their father to realize that his inactions are harming me. the one being scorned and sneered upon while being told that my father figure isn’t my father, he’s my authority figure, the one who holds the rod instead of being my nurturer.
i’m aemond after he loses his eye, and is watching alicent beg for viserys to do something to help him. i’m aegon slowly wasting away as he tries to live up to the mantle of king that was forced on his head. i’m heleana who speaks of the misfortunes of her family but is ignored and pitied.
i feel like every person who has been emotionally, physically, mentally, etc. abused in their childhood can find pieces of themselves within each of the green children because they’re just the beacon and poster child of how the same abuse can make so many different types of adults.
#idk….i got kinda self aware tonight and i don’t think i like it but fuck it we ball#grrm idk if you were actively thinking about that while you were characterizing alicent’s children but i applaud you#i can literally sit here for hours and talk about how alicent being abused shaped her into becoming an abuser and how her abuse toward her#abuse toward her children made them the way they are#hotd#aegon ii targaryen#aemond targaryen#heleana targaryen#dance of the dragons#asoisf#team green#alicent hightower#rhaenyra targaryen#daemon targaryen
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The changes the writers made to Alicent, Aemond, and Aegon have too many modern connotations and it disturbs me that so many people find those connotations "sympathetic."
#and my GAWD do their fans get angry when you point out those very glaring and intentional connotations#no it's not insensitive to point out that Aemond is a shoot shooter when his main trait is aggrieved entitlement#No it's not insensitive to point out that Alicent is a Woman for Trump and a White Woman™ when that's how she was intentionally written#Do I think that it's overly simplistic writing? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that that's how the story is written#asoiaf#hotd#hotd critical#team black#asoiaf fandom#fire and blood#anti team green#hotd sexism#I will defend people who argue that Cole is not an incel though. He's not. He's actually something worse#And his characterization is actually better rooted in the European Medieval time period than the others - to an extent
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While there isn't that much to book! Helaena but what we know so far that she was a happy, gentle, and brave girl who claimed a fierce and old dragon like dreamfyre when she was only 11/13. Who was also so loved by the smallfolk apparently and was politically involved before b&c destroyed her, i just don't understand how and why the showrunners tried to minimise Helaena's role (it was already small in f&b) and turned her into a lonely somber character who has no personality traits beside being obsessed with bugs, even her prophecies only makes her a walking talking spoiler it's not even written in an interesting way like asoiaf!bran or dany or melisandre etc.... and then they have the nerve to call their writing feminist 💀
Hi anon! I really had to think about this one, because I agree that compared to her brothers, show!Helaena gets a pretty shallow characterization. One of the problems I think with show!Helaena is that while they've given her more of a personality, they haven't given her a motivation. There is nothing wrong with her being a neurodivergent bug girl with prophesies, and I think even her visions could be an interesting twist to her character, but the show failed to convey what drives Helaena, or even show how she feels about the conflict.
Granted, Helaena's characterization in the book is kind of thin, but I'd argue that book!Aemond's characterization, for instance, is also thin. Aemond is a mean asshole with a chip on his shoulder, but the show went out of its way to humanize him by giving him motivation, backstory, and an arc that will likely follow him through the show. Even Luke, who literally exists within the story to start conflict, is given doubts about being the heir to Driftmark and the need to prove himself. But Helaena? We have no idea what drives her. I want to know how Helaena envisions herself within this conflict! So she has prophesies, and she tries to communicate them, but that's not working. Now what? She and Aegon are both crying at his coronation, but we have a good idea why Aegon is crying. What about Helaena? Is it because she's seen their doom? Is she sad for Aegon? Does she feel like her family is doing the wrong thing on a moral level? And has she told anyone how she feels? And this is where the prophesy part gets lost because if Helaena's visions are coherent enough that she knows crowning Aegon is a bad idea, then why does she only speak them in cryptic riddles? She's capable of expressing herself relatively clearly otherwise, so the riddles are a contrived way to keep anyone, including Helaena, from acting on those visions, or the rest of her family from realizing she has them at all. So the visions add a tragic element to her character, but don't actually give Helaena anything to do, plotwise. This is a character whose death is the catalyst for the riots which drive Rhaenyra from the city, so there is certainly material there to work with.
And the thing is, Blood and Cheese, an absolutely inarguably evil act, is going to happen to Helaena early on in the second season, and when that happens, Helaena becomes the so-called "perfect victim." Helaena's character is something of a cipher, someone that the viewer can project their own values and assumptions onto. We have Helaena who is secretly in love with Aemond, Helaena who had a loving relationship with Rhaenyra, Helaena who was a good wife to Aegon, Helaena who loved Aegon as a brother but not a wife, Helaena who was Otto's favorite, Helaena who didn't care about the family feud, and all of these Helaenas exist simultaneously without really directly contradicting anything that was shown on screen. And because she remains this blank slate character, it is acceptable to sympathize with her even though her side is in conflict with Rhaenyra. The viewer can say, "well Helaena didn't deserve that, she was innocent!" But the thing is, no one deserves what happened to Helaena and her children. Helaena does not need to be perfectly neutral for her to be a victim, to have never held an unkind thought against Rhaenyra for her suffering to matter. This idea that someone cannot be worthy of any sympathy or empathy unless their hands are completely clean absolutely permeates this fandom (just look at the reaction to Alicent), and online discourse at large, and whether the show realizes it or not, they've played into it by making Helaena the "true innocent," as if she were a child with no agency of her own, when she is actually a beloved queen, an adult, a dragonrider and a mother.
That's not to say the show couldn't give her more to do in season 2, they could. Maybe Blood and Cheese will motivate her and she will take action. Hopefully, if the show follows the book and makes her beloved of the smallfolk, it will be for something other than how beautifully she suffers.
#asks#helaena targaryen#hotd critical#to be clear other characters have flimsy characterization#laena gets similar treatment
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“If Daemon wanted to get rid of his step-sons he would do it right after Aegon III’s birth”
If Rhaenyra thought Daemon was a serious threat to her sons she wouldn’t have married him. We don’t fully know the ins and outs of Daemyra’s marriage but we do know Rhaenyra. The honest truth is she’s more likely kill her husband and feed him to her dragon if she got even a whiff of a threat to her kids than turn a blind eye whilst he pulls an Alicent Hightower.
Daemon knows that, he entered this marriage fully aware any son he has isn’t going to become King. So he cut his losses and accepted Baela and Rhaena as the future Queen Consort and Lady of Driftmark.
#asoiaf asks to me#daemon targaryen#daemon's characterization#fire and blood characters#rhaenyra's characterization#rhaenyra targaryen#daemyra#hotd characterization
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People really are missing the point of a character like Nettles. Being the a non-Valyrian dragonrider is what makes her different(in every positive definition of that word) and helps to serve a larger purpose in this story.
Valyrian blood is not special. It’s not needed to do great things. No one is special because of what family they happen to be born into.
A non-Valyrian Nettles shows that we are more than the circumstances which we are born into. Our birth, our names, and our very blood does not define us. Our actions are what do. We can overcome so much and rise to become absolutely extraordinary with a little bit of determination, patience, and a dash of help along the way. Nettles exemplifies that to the fullest extent.
She's more than a Black Valryian. She doesn’t have to be Valyrian. She shouldn’t have to be Valyrian.
She’s a survivor. She’s a final girl. She’s a Black low-born girl likely without a drop of dragons blood that tames a wild dragon with patience that killed countless others who had dragons blood. She survived the Dance where others high and low alike fell and perished to become a firewitch to the Burned Men.
Her legacy is immortalized in the history books(and by the Burned Men cause they still worship her) as one of the last(if not the last) dragonrider(s) before Dany all without having any known Valyrian ancestry.
#nettles doesn’t need Valyrian blood to be great#nettles#hotd#hotd spoilers#nettles asoiaf#nettles f&b#hotd fandom critical#bncommentary#hotd commentary#nettles characterization#🐑🐉#house of the dragon#netty#she’s not daemons kid guys#the dates don’t align for that but keep trying it#surprise surprise most of the ones cheering this crap on aren’t black themselves 🤦🏽♀️#I see what’s happening here which is ironic because any other time she isn’t Black#but now she is because you can use that#how does having valyrian blood benefit nettles at all#how does it add to the story GRRM is trying to tell#she can be valyrian but it shouldn’t be requirement#that thinking is backwards#what did tyrion say? never forget who you are wear it proudly#nettles likely isn’t valyrian let’s be proud of her claiming a dragon without dragons blood#nettles is great because she’s nettles#no dragon blood required and I love that 🙌🏽
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A day may come when I stop developing unhealthy obsessions with characters that have long pale hair and psychological issues…but it is not this day…
#lady maria#bloody crow of cainhurst#lord’s blade ciaran#aemond targaryen#honestly Thranduil and Galadriel count too because i had periods a while back where i was obsessed with them#“It’s about the psychological torment and complex characterization”#I say that like at least three of these characters have almost no dialogue and minimal backstory#I am not to be judged lol#But no guys i’m down bad someone slap me#Writing a huge ass fic about Bloody Crow and watching HOTD with a legitimate mood of#“Idc about the teams i’m team whatever the hell Aemond does”#That guy has me in a chokehold#How was i immune to the Legolas syndrome but not this guy#it’s the chaotic evil with a hint of understandable motivations vibe isn’t it#And don’t even get me started on how I wrote Crow#Guys i swear it’s the hair lol#Why they all gotta look like that#Ik i’m insane#CrowNotes#soulsborne#HOTD#LOTR
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Perhaps the death of Balerion during the reign of Viserys I represents how the Targaryen family lost sight of Aegon's dream around that time. The Targaryens supposedly united all Westeros under their rule to defend against the threat of the Others. But during the Dance of the Dragons, and the many Blackfyre rebellions that followed, the Targaryens became preoccupied with which individual sat the Iron Throne. Balerion's death is perhaps symbolic of the Targaryen family becoming more interested in destroying itself (for nothing) than in looking ahead towards the imminent threat.
#i love viserys' characterization in hotd#for all his talk about aegon's prophecy#he does just about all in his power to destroy the unity of the targaryen family#by undermining rhaenyra's claim to the throne at just about every point#of course viserys was balerion's last rider#and of course balerion died during his reign#because once again#if i look back i am lost#asoiaf#making a dragon uquiz right now and so i'm thinking a lot about the dragons
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'Nettles characterization wouldn't work if she's older."
A smart, foul-mouthed, dirty, twenty five year old who manages to be the only person since Old Valyria to claim a wild dragon.
A thief and loner whose sexual promiscuity is built into the narrative.
A home rennovator and big sister type at the same time, in the same family...
Her knowing Marilda as a peer on Driftmark
Understanding her background through her well into adult mannerisms
Self preservation without kids at that age
Potential sapphic undertones
Daemon pulling someone age appropriate.
A woman in ASOIAF whose sexual relationships don't affect her innocence in the narrative and actively serves to save her.
What's not working?
Where is the Ayo casting announcement?
Are you not a Natasha Lyonne Fan?
Are you LGBT?
#hotd#house of the dragon#nettles#nettles asoiaf#a song of ice and fire#netty#nettles thoughts#nettles headcanons#nettles characterization#active sapphic decision making#she'd be a 25 year old teenage girl
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................. not to rain down on anyone's parade but barely characterized 14 year old lucerys could never have the swag eleanor or henry had
#1#2#3#4#5#again you do you per carità i'm not here to judge anyone's taste because then i'd be a fucking hypocrite#but this still made me laugh#maybe because i never really understood the hype around luke/aemond. i mean i get it on a intellectual level#but there are so many juicier pairs in hotd that while i understand why people would ship it i'm not sure why it's so popular#no hate to the pairing or anything of course. you can ship whatever you want!#but this reeks of the usual inflated m/m ship with one (or two) fictional men with weak or barely acknowledged characterizations#while incredibly complex female characters (at least in comparison) are JUST THERE#again this is not a hate post about the ship or slash pairings (OBVIOUSLY!!)#but still. in any case the eleanor/henry dynamic fits better with rhaenicent or maybe daemyra tbh#like... even when i love a ship with all my heart i wouldn't assign *every* possible au to them but only those who fit their characters bes#if my otp is a etl ship i wouldn't want to read or write a childhood friends to lovers au because what i like about them#is that they fucking hate each other's guts and perpetually try to kill the other (before falling in love... and sometimes even after)#if a pairing is more p&p like i really couldn't get into a wuthering heights au even if i'd recognize it's magnificently written#because that's not what these characters and their dynamic are. it would be projection#at this point i would prefer to read/write about two ocs ngl#again in fandom you can do whatever you want i'm no one and i could never tell you what you can or can't like. that'd be ridiculous#and idw the op of that post to feel bad about it. it's just my personal preference/opinion on fanworks that's all#val speaks#val rambles in the tags#txt
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#I mean they also could have just made the Targaryens biracial but sOmEtHiNg tells me that was never on the table#asoiaf doesn't share our structure of “race” but it's CERTAINLY not colourblind#And it's a little disappointing that they spurned the chance to explore diversity in a world without our system of white supremacy#Like I'm sorry you can't pull the “colour-blind” card and proceed to reduce the roles of all the characters played by Black actors#just to make room for green characterization that didn't exist in the books#while simultaneously exaggerating the importance of the Velaryon boys' appearances#I'm begging HBO to just take the answer the fandom offered#and establish that Valyrian features are passed down regardless of our world's concept of race#and that either Corlys's mother or grandmother was Black. It's that easy.#hotd#hotd critical#asoiaf#hbo#hbo racism#hotd racism
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Rhaena deserves be the symbol of hope for the Targaryen dynasty. She’s the last dragon rider and has pure Valyrian blood. An arc with her wanting to unify both factions of the family but to no prevail as it’s out of control. After the war, she works to pick up the pieces and bring benevolence to the Hightowers. Daemon wanting to “restore the dynasty” but the daughter he ignores actually takes steps in doing so while he’s killing dragons. It’s *chefs kiss* writing. She’ll finally get a dragon and feel officially Targaryen but only after the family is torn apart so she wants to become peacemaker. This fits her so much more than fans urging the writers to make her claim a dragon and become just another dragonrider with no purpose other than being on a team and fighter. She’s not a fighter, she’s a lover and unifier.
#Saint Rhaena#how people try to characterize her vs how she actually comes off is not correlating#I also feel like Daeron would support her#house of the dragon#house targaryen#rhaena of pentos#rhaena targaryen#hotd#asoiaf#morning#daemon targeryan#laena velaryon#baela targaryen#team black#anti hotd#fire and blood#a song of ice and fire#grr martin#daenerys targeryan#targ dynasty#rhaegar targaryen#ryan condal#sara hess
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