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#hotd fandom critical
thesunfyre4446 · 27 days
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"but rhaenyra's line survived !!!!! she won!!!!!"
i don't.... care.
no fr, who gives a shit? if y'all think that rhaenyra's deeply traumatized son inheriting the throne as Aegon iii (meaning : there was an aegon ii), having a miserable life and dying in his 30's is this great big win for the blacks... then ok, they won i guess. rhaenyra & daemon died. most of rhaenyra's children died. the entire green bloodline died (and no, it's really not the win y'all think it is. it's sad and tragic). all of aegon ii young innocent children died. almost all of the targs dragons were killed, and the dynasty never recovered. yes, f&b is about misogyny, but it's also about the pointlessness of war. it's about a family with too much power that can't help but destroy each other - they literally have a dragon named cannibal who feeds off other dragons and can't be tamed - AND Y'ALL STILL DON'T GET IT???? like come on, it's not even subtle. this idea that a war can be honorable or rightful goes against the entire point of asoiaf. and the thing is, the targs literally go on to have another bloody succession war a couple of decades later because that's who they are!!! there is no lesson to be learned. there is no happy ending.
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bohemian-nights · 8 months
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People really are missing the point of a character like Nettles. Being the a non-Valyrian dragonrider is what makes her different(in every positive definition of that word) and helps to serve a larger purpose in this story.
Valyrian blood is not special. It’s not needed to do great things. No one is special because of what family they happen to be born into.
A non-Valyrian Nettles shows that we are more than the circumstances which we are born into. Our birth, our names, and our very blood does not define us. Our actions are what do. We can overcome so much and rise to become absolutely extraordinary with a little bit of determination, patience, and a dash of help along the way. Nettles exemplifies that to the fullest extent.
She's more than a Black Valryian. She doesn’t have to be Valyrian. She shouldn’t have to be Valyrian.
She’s a survivor. She’s a final girl. She’s a Black low-born girl likely without a drop of dragons blood that tames a wild dragon with patience that killed countless others who had dragons blood. She survived the Dance where others high and low alike fell and perished to become a firewitch to the Burned Men.
Her legacy is immortalized in the history books(and by the Burned Men cause they still worship her) as one of the last(if not the last) dragonrider(s) before Dany all without having any known Valyrian ancestry.
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Fun Facts:
You can like both Daenerys and Sansa
You can like both Arya and Sansa
You can like both Alicent and Rhaenyra
Many people actually like both characters in these pairings
Someone liking the Dany/Arya/Rhaenyra/Cersei grouping doesn’t mean that they’re a pick me
Someone liking the Sansa/Alicent/Helaena/Elia grouping doesn’t make them a raging misogynist
Stop pitting women against each other
I thought we all agreed that S8 of GOT doesn’t exist, why are we still doing this stupid Sansa vs. Dany stuff five years later (seriously - kids born during the airing of the final season are entering kindergarten this fall. This has been going on too long).
Can we all just be civil to each other when S2 of HOTD airs and not call each other rape apologists, cheer for the deaths of innocent children, or essentially write fanfiction about the other side’s fans? Please?
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alicentsgf · 1 year
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i hold no hatred in my heart for lucerys velaryon but if i see one more person use that poor kids death to justify blood and cheese i am throwing a luke is dead party à la aegon ii and you're all invited
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ride-thedragon · 13 days
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Oh, the writer hates this character. Oh, they hate that (insert male character) is popular and want to ruin it, oh the writers hate this ship.
The writers are confused and baffled at your lack of comprehension skills at their clear themes and while the pr team will simultaneously cater to you through marketing the writers are breaking down their interpretation and themes in more obvious ways in the hopes you understand the story they're telling.
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saintofaugust · 1 year
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just a little bit irritating when people who moan about hotd alicent not having ill intentions or lacking in cunning (aka not a #girlboss) are the same ones who hate her for how catty she gets or how shes basically a usurper like
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targaryen-madness · 10 days
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Hello all, in regards to fandom drama,
I don’t think anyone will read this or be too interested if they do, but I wanted to say something anyway.
I am a teeny tiny insignificant blog. I have a small handful of mutuals that I only sparingly interact with, and my presence here goes largely unnoticed.
In light of recent goings on, I’ll say that I follow multiple people from multiple sides of this conflict purely for the purpose of reading their fanfiction. However, I have never and will never take any sides and I do not wish to be involved in any of the fighting or mud slinging. I wish to remain an entirely neutral and mostly invisible party, and for all to know that I harbor no ill will to anyone at all.
I do acknowledge that I have some divisive opinions as far as black vs green on the show, but those are fictional characters, and again, I have no problems with any real people whatsoever. (except for minors, please go away)
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just a little rant here, but even among the people who are sympathetic to alicent on ao3 there are some big misinterpretations of criston's character
and some of them i understand! presenting him as a misogynist is reasonable from some of his lines (provided you remove context)
but I've seen more than one person say he killed joffrey lonmouth bc he was gay???
no??
criston killed him bc he was blackmailing him with the knowledge of him having slept with rhàenyra
even if you think that was consensual (it wasn't) - criston literally says in the show! that it would be merciful to chop his head off! i.e. much worse punishments could be levied!!! and viserys absolutely would have if he'd known
so joffrey I. basically said "hey if you tell anyone làenor and i are a couple ," (as if the entire kingdom didn't know...) "I'll have your head chopped off! or you tortured!"
enough to kill someone right on the spot?
absolutely not!
but! for some more context!
let's assume his sex with rhàenyra was consensual. since no one wants to admit he literally told her to stop.
even then! its not unreasonable for him to assume that bc the CROWN PRINCESS wanted him to take her maidenhead and break his vows, for which, again, he could be killed or worse, and she could be sent to the silent sisters for it, that she was in love with him?
like? presumably he thought she understood the magnitude of what they were doing?
so to reconcile this with his guilt he wanted to make a great romantic song out of it and run away together to get married
and she was like lol no? but you should fuck me whenever i want tho!
so that's his headspace when j.l. comes and talks to him. so it's kind of understandable that he lost it
not acceptable! but it makes logical sense
and if you actually do accept that it was nonconsensual......then in addition to all that j.l. was taunting him about his rape
in which case if he didn't hit him i would be more surprised tbh
so to assume it was homophobia on the basis of j.l. mentioning he's in a relationship with làenor is just a bit of a reach tbh, like. people absolutely do kill people just for being gay. but given all the previous context and the fact that surely if that were the case he would have gone after làenor too (or instead! since he's the one marrying rhàenyra)... it just doesn't track.
(just to clarify; i don't think rhàenyra is a rapist. i think she was (and is tbh) thoughtless and spoilt and never considered the consequences of her actions - bc her actions never have consequences for her so why would she consider them for others? (also she's still a teenager. another reason she might not have considered the consequences) not 100% her fault but still)
(i do think criston was attracted to her; i just don't think he would have slept with her if he knew why she was doing it. he gave in bc he had feelings for her and from the context of THEIR ENTIRE LIVES AND THE ENTIRE SYSTEM THEY GREW UP UNDER and the (apparently mistaken) assumption that rhàenyra is also aware of this he had the impression that in order to take this risk it must be incredibly important to her, thus she must return his feelings. so between that and the fact that while we know rhàenyra probably wouldn't have him punished for refusing her, he doesn't necessarily and also feels like he owes her literally everything, i don't think the sex they had could truly be considered consensual. especially since, again, he told her to stop! at best she took advantage of him.)
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thesunfyre4446 · 3 months
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can you stop making alicent's relationship with her children about rhaenyra?
even if alicent is \ was in love with her, it doesn't mean every single aspect of her life is about her. she doesn't love helaena because her silver hair "reminds her of rhaenyra", she loves her because she's her daughter. she loves her for the person she is, and not because she reminds her of someone.
(and i'm not seeing any "rhaenyra only loved jace and luke because their brown hair reminded her of alicent" posts)
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bohemian-nights · 11 months
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HOTD has a misogynoir problem and it’s the reason why the fandom refuses to see Rhaenyra as a “villain” in Nettles story
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The HOTD fandom has divided itself along the lines of the two factions of the Dance, team black vs. team green as if they themselves are actual members of the teams they root for. The inability to see nuance has resulted in major disagreements between the two camps. However, there is something seemingly that the majority of fans irrespective of their chosen team will agree on.
When it comes to the Rhaenyra, Nettles, and Daemon situation, Rhaenyra is viewed as an unquestionable victim of equal, near equal, or in some cases greater status to Nettles.
Despite the fact that she is the one that orders Nettles to be executed in her sleep, she’s somehow a woman we should all feel sorry for and take pity upon because she just had a little “breakdown.” It’s really Mysaria’s fault because she told a “lie” that Daemon and Nettles were sleeping(according to Team Black). Or it’s Daemon’s fault because he “groomed” Nettles like Rhaenyra(according to Team Green).
To put it plainly, Rhaenyra’s victimhood is due to the fact that the fandom will not view a “white” woman as the antagonist of the situation when a “black” woman is involved. It does not matter that she orders the death of an innocent young woman for merely sleeping with her husband. It does not matter that she used classism and racism(before you say “Rhaenyra isn’t a racist,” go ahead and replace “low creature” with the “n-word” then get back to me) to justify murdering said innocent woman.
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Her actions are labeled as a result of stress brought about by the loss of her children. Pinning or rather passing the blame upon others who are less sympathetic. Mysaria(who though white in the books is now half Asian in the show and book(s) she is both a foreigner and a prostitute) and Daemon(who’s a white man). The HOTD fandom will not see Rhaenyra as being in the wrong because they view her as an innocent white woman. This article details this assumption, particularly in this paragraph:
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In the case of Nettles, who is a brown-skinned black woman, while Rhaenyra does not cry she does have a strong emotional outburst that fans sympathize with. Nettles is seen as a victim, but the woman who tries to perpetuate racially motivated violence against her is also seen as an equal(and depending on who you ask greater) victim. Thus her own victimhood and innocence is lessened.
As far as the “lie” and the “grooming” accusations go, that too can be blamed upon fans' inability to see past their own innate racial bias.
To these fans, Nettles is only an acceptable and likable character when they can put her into a specific box of characterization. That box being that she is unquestionably a child.
She could not have slept with Daemon because she’s a child(she’s his child or he sees her like his child). Or she was groomed by Daemon because she’s a child. She can not be competition, sexual or otherwise, to Rhaenyra because she’s a child. If Nettles is a child she is not a threat because who is threatened by a child?
(Note, this is the whole reason why fans will “fawn” over Rhaena and Baela, when they don’t ignore that they exist or when they are trying to prop up a dead deformed fully white baby, because they aren’t “competition” in that way since they are Rhaenyra’s stepdaughters. Plus they are “white” in the books).
Nettles is a child in their eyes even though by Westeros standards she is an adult:
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She did not sleep with Daemon even though the text explicitly frames their relationships as being romantic and sexual(unless you consider it normal for a father to bathe with his daughter).
She was groomed like Rhaenyra(again bringing in Rhaenyra’s victimhood so as to take away from her crimes) even though she’s an adult and her relationship with Daemon is described in a different manner than Daemon and Rhaenyra’s relationship beginnings.
This:
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Versus this:
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The only similarities are the gift giving and even then the gifts are of a completely different nature with a different motivation attached to them.
Nettles literally was homeless prior to the Dance so Daemon gifting her clothes, a hairbrush, and a mirror was actually what she needed. Daemon gifts these items and his affection without getting anything in return besides her company.
Daemon’s most selfless acts are done for Nettles. When it comes down to it, he is even willing to lay down his life for her. He sends her away to save her life, the life of a bastard girl who is looked down upon by even her defenders (like Corlys who calls her dirty and ill-favored) at the expense of his own. Disobeying his wife and queen's orders in the process, thus if he is grooming her, he sure is going about it the wrong way.
Unlike Nettles, Rhaenyra was actually underage(14 seeing how she was born in 97AC and the events detailed here happen in 111AC) by Westeros standards when Daemon begins his “courting” of her.
(The last little tidbit also proves that Daemon can not be Nettles' biological father seeing how he was in the Stepstones from late 111 AC until 115 AC and since Nettles turns 17 in 130 AC she was born on Driftmark in 113 AC).
Keep in mind that many of these fans who call Daemon and Nettles relationship abusive, label it as grooming, or deny it exists will gleefully ship Daemyra or Alysmond while saying that they are #toxic couple goals in an approving manner, that they are an epic romance and are or are going to be the OTP of the show, or wanting to see them be a #power couple.
Daemyra is straight-up grooming and as established earlier, even by Westeros standards Rhaenyra was actually a minor.
As far as Team Greens ship goes, Alysmond has the same power dynamic problems Dattles(Daemon x Nettles). Alys is a 40+ year(s) old woman(she’s described as being at least twice Aemond’s age). While Aemond is 19 or 20 in the books and 16-18 in the show.
Aemond is a prince while Alys is a bastard and a wet nurse. When Aemond takes Harrenhal he kills her entire family while sparing her and taking her as his mistress or rather a spoil of war. The stuff of romance novels people. (Note, I do like Alysmond, but to say it’s somehow better than Dattles is a huge stretch).
What do Daemyra and Alysmond have that Dattles does not? All parties involved are white. Fans don’t mind or are willing to overlook and ship emotionally manipulative incestuous based relationships or questionable power dynamic relationships, as long as both partners are white.
Both sides of the fandom infantilize Nettles to give her a sense of innocence, of blamelessness to the circumstances that befall upon her, while at the same time protecting Rhaenyra’s innocence by giving them a shared “villain.” Usually Daemon(and in some cases Mysaria).
The fandom can only sympathize with her when they view her as a child because a black woman who is a victim of racial violence at the hands of a white woman isn’t relatable. It just shouldn’t be because Rhaenyra is innocent.
Ultimately Nettles is not viewed as a dynamic character who is worthy of a complete arc that includes a heterosexual (I imagine fans would cheer on Rhaenyra and Nettles being together a la “Rhaenyra and Laena” which many fans cared more about than Laena’s relationship that she had with her husband, the father of her two girls who she had a loving marriage with in the books) romantic relationship. Especially with someone like Daemon.
She has to be a child because otherwise if Nettles is seen as a fully sexual being capable of making her own decisions, capable of consenting to a romantic relationship with a man who wants her in turn, a man who is willing to choose her over his white Valyrian(Aryan) wife, a wife who in her anger and jealousy seeks to enact violence upon her as a result of said consensual impossible relationship, she disrupts the natural order of things.
This phenomenon of desexualizing Black women characters who are love interests isn’t new or unique to HOTD. In fact, it’s pretty common in fandoms and is born as a result of misogynoir. This article is on the character Nyota Uhura from Star Trek, but it mirrors what is happening to Nettles right now:
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The whole blog is a goldmine on fandom racism, particularly fandom misogynoir. I urge you to check it out especially if you are going to “speak out” on Black female characters when you yourself aren’t Black(this includes other “WOC”).
And before you say, “But Bohemian people ship Nettles with Daeron or Jace so they aren’t trying to completely desexualize her nor do they care about her being with white men because both Daeron and Jace are white,” hold onto that.
While there are some genuine fans of these crackships(neither have any basis in canon and Nettles never even meets Daeron) most of these “fans” are doing so because they know that it looks racist to desexualize Nettles, the only in-canon black character, to the point where she’s the only one without a love interest.
Yes, both Daeron and Jace are white, but you need to look at who their characters are. Daeron has no love interest in book canon so Nettles doesn’t threaten any white woman’s desirability since there is none to threaten.
Jace does have an in-canon love interest(s), Baela. and Sara Snow. They might change it up in the show, but in the books, Jace and Baela aren’t really a couple for long since he goes to the North and meets Sara Snow who he may have married. Sara Snow is a controversial character.
Most fans either don’t believe she exists(and they think she’s Cregan) or they don’t want her to exist(the fandom has a classism and a bastard problem in addition to racism, but again I’m not getting into that today).
Daeron hasn’t even shown up on the show yet(so mostly book fans are invested in him)and while he’ll probably be popular I doubt he’ll reach Daemon let alone Aemond’s popularity.
Jace dies soon into the narrative(he might die this upcoming season). He’s pretty boring in the show and outside of him being one of Rhaenyra’s baseborn sons I don’t think too many people actually care about him.
People are comfortable with putting Nettles with characters like Daeron and Jace solving many birds with one stone while not really stepping on any toes(especially the toes of white women who they actually care about).
It stops people from shipping Nettles with Daemon, because he is too desirable to be with a black woman especially when it would impact his Valyrian queen, it gives Daeron a love interest, keeps Sara Snow from showing up, and keeps the racist allegations off fans back. They are the comfortable choices. They are the non-threatening choices.
So to wrap this commentary up, the HOTD fandom has finally found something which to unite both the Greens and the Blacks. Trying to pidgin hole black female characters into narrow boxes of “acceptable” characterization that desexualizes them which serves to protect white female characters, who they sympathize with, innocence and desirability. As always, nothing brings together a fandom like good old-fashioned racism repackaged as “caring.”
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alicentsgf · 1 year
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that person who said alicent in a modern setting would be a #boymom christian mommy influencer is the funniest person alive and they don't even know it
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Y'ALL CAN EXCUSE RACISM?
Let's get one thing straight: I have no part in this chaotic mess (infact, I have blocked all the accounts mentioned below), but it's grinding my gears how it's devolving into another petty fanfic drama: case 607. I know this drama is getting the attention for certain individuals who are demonstrating mean girl behaviour and gossiping about other writers behind their backs. However, I am solely focused on addressing the racist and discriminatory remarks made by these individuals in the leaked text messages.
For those not in the loop, there's been a huge drama in the fanfic community involving leaked text messages from a group chat of four prominent members. In these messages, two users - Fae and Bel - have admitted to sending hate anons and talking smack about other writers behind their backs. Two other members left the group after it was revealed that B tried to make amends with someone who these two, Em and Ange, don't particularly care for. As a move to clear their names, Em exposed all the texts, trying to prove that Fae and Bel are the real villains here.
But wait, there's more! In these same chats, Bel not only mocked fellow non-English speakers but also bragged about sending rat emojis to an 18-year-old Pakistani writer who was already receiving racist anons. While everyone is focused on getting back at these two women for being shady af, it's mind-boggling how Em and Ange are suddenly jumping on the anti-racism train.
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These two ladies stayed in the same chat as a fellow Pakistani writer was driven away because of racism, knowing full well that one of their own was contributing to it, and said NOTHING! Zero discouragement, no condemnation - they only hopped off when things got personal.
So here it is… I've had it with all of you hypocrites. You praise and encourage these women at every turn, feeding their egos like they're the second coming of Beyonce. But let's not forget who's always stirring up drama in this fandom - hint: it's these same people with a sense of entitlement the size of a planet. The issue is groupthink and y'all have all jumped on the bandwagon. You're worse than HBO's marketing department because just like their shitty teams, everyone involved here SUCKS ASS. You don't have to pick a side because they are all petty, mean losers. Bel and Fae are facing the consequences of their actions, which they rightfully deserve.
However, Em's exposé on Bel's racism seems more like an opportunistic move and it's disappointing that so many of you are supporting it. It's a predictable cycle now; there will be a half-hearted apology, an announcement of a hiatus, and then tons of people will flock to their inboxes to shower them with praise and excuses. It's ridiculous! I know there are many who feel the same way as me but are afraid to speak up because they don't want to upset the "village elders" and risk losing their connections and engagements. It's a joke atp!
Instead of taking responsibility for their own wrongdoings, they will come up with a list of 10 different cyber crimes by others to divert attention from their own nonsense. These very same women have confessed to creating multiple fake accounts, secretly stalking servers without mods noticing, and constantly harassing individuals through anon messages.
Yet, we are supposed to consider them as examples of moral integrity and ethical behavior? 😒
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rhaenin-time · 26 days
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That awkward moment when you realize that Rhaenyra is blamed for any bad action of the men who support her, yet not given credit for the accomplishments of those acting under her orders and quite possibly her own ideas.
Then she's just a spoiled, lazy whore too emotional to make a decision who'd rather spend all her time eating. One who was so unworthy of respect that even she could acknowledge it enough to let her husband 'shame her' by sleeping around, until one day she went mad and made a decision that she definitely made and definitely made out of jealousy in the very way that men who have an interest in destroying her image describe even though it was behind closed doors?
You do realize that's the narrative Gyldayn was trying to craft, right? You're not supposed to take it at face value? In fact, you're supposed to see it as part of Rhaenyra's story, that whatever she did or might have done, it doesn't matter, because people are determined to craft those narratives around her?
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ride-thedragon · 8 months
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I keep posting prompts to stir other's inspiration, and what ends up happening is actually that I tend to have to write it.
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fuckalicent · 10 months
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one thing i hate ab the hotd fandom is that back in my day u could just like joffrey and not get crucified for it because we had the brain capacity to understand that yes he is a terrible terrible person and a literal tyrant but he’s still a fucking compelling character. w hotd everyone is desperate for some moral high ground and it’s soooo annoying. let us like our fucked up characters in peace nobody here is perfect, that’s literally the point of the dance. they all commit atrocities and comparing them like this just to shame each other and prove one side is better than the other is such a waste of time.
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pterodactylterrace · 11 days
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Laenor does not accept the Strong boys as his trueborn sons.
He admits it HIMSELF, but apparently everyone missed it.
Season 1. Episode 6.
Rhaenyra: “Dark rumors are hunting us Laenor. They nip at our heels. Questions about our son’s parentage. Vile, disgusting insinuations.”
Laenor: *scoffs* “Insinuates, are they?”
Rhaenyra: “They are our sons!”
Rhaenyra goes on about how their son’s “true father” won’t abandon them now. Laenor insists that he has played his part for the last ten years.
That sounds a lot more like Rhaenyra forcing him to play happy family in public and not him ‘accepting them as his own’. He admits he doesn’t think of them as his when he laughs at the idea that people are only insinuating they aren’t his. Even he knows how laughable the situation is. Rhaenyra then uses her station to prevent him from going to war and to stay by her side.
Y’all are aware that Rhaenyra is actually pretty abusive to Laenor, right? She isn’t above making snide homophobic remarks at him when he isn’t on her good side.
“Guzzling all the ale in flea bottom along with gods know what else” insinuates fellatio
“Wagging your sword around and winking at sailors” that’s just straight homophobic, imo. Double entendre for penis handling, and mocking him for flirting with men.
Forces him to play happy family.
Refuses to allow him to go fight like the knight he is.
That was all from a single scene, mind you! To add on, she expects him to be grateful because he has a lavish lifestyle.
Thing is… the Velaryons were one of the richest houses in the seven kingdoms. He already HAD all those things to begin with. So really, what does he even gain from this relationship? Seems like he gains ridicule from everyone that knows he is a cuckold and free berating from his wife over something he can’t even control.
Seriously, the more I watch this show, the worse I feel for Laena and Laenor. Both trapped in loveless marriages to a Targaryen that cheats on them. Oof.
(There is a deleted scene of Daemon flirting with a man while in Pentos. He was unfaithful to Laena, they chose not to show it. Hopefully because they realized what a bad look it was for two POC to be cheated on by light skinned blondes known for being obsessed with blood purity)
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