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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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hey guys food for thought! you can make a lot of connor murphy/billy hargrove parallels. take that as you will :)

#stranger things #dear evan hansen #billy hargrove #connor murphy #if i have to suffer so does everyone else

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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all im saying is like ... u can hate billy hargrove all u want !! like everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it's an opinion i dislike

but can u ppl please stop saying billy deserved to die bc that's genuinely so hurtful to abuse victims. like if our trauma response isn't acceptable (in this im referring to his general aggressive tendencies. not how he treated max/lucas bc even as someone who likes billy treating ppl like that will always be unacceptable. like yes he had his reasons, still bad) we suddenly deserve to die ?? or just deserve it in general

also like maybe tag ur shit with SOME kind of warning for character hate bc most of the people who enjoy billy are abuse victims who relate to him and to go into the tag and get fucking attacked for relating to a character is . yowch

like i promise . most people don't like billy because he's racist or an abuser. some billy fans are bipoc (including me). most of us ARE abuse victims

please tell me why abuse victims would like a character if they were an abuser. please tell me why bipocs would like a character if they were vehemently racist

im just honestly so burnt out from shit like this ahahaha. if you don't like billy just block the tag and stop going out of your way to attack people for enjoying a nuanced character just. jfc

like i understand hating his character in of itself !! you have every right !! but hating the real abuse victims who enjoy his character and hating the exploration of him getting a better redemption is a lot more hurtful than u think it is

(also guess who's sending death threats/consistently doing things specifically to make other people miserable? it isn't the fucking people who like billy, is it)

maybe it's bc i was exposed to fandom at an admittedly far too young age but half the ppl in the stranger things fandom wouldn't have SURVIVED half of tumblrs fandoms. like ppl enjoy problematic characters. sometimes even i think the characters people enjoy have no redeeming qualities, but at the end of the day it's all behind a screen. nobody is actually hurting people because they enjoy a certain character. get the fuck over it PLEASE and just leave people alone

#billy hargrove #stranger things #rant #idk its just. mmm #cw: abuse #cw: racism

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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formally putting in my application as the little brother of the billy hargrove/harringrove fandom

#stranger things #billy hargrove #harringrove

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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I'm gonna fucking say it: Billy is the least bad of the human antagonists on that fucking show. Those little shits in season one literally made Mike jump off a cliff while holding Dustin at knife point. Jason whipped up a vigilante mob and got himself a gun at the drop of a hat. Brenner kidnaps and tortures children. Henry is a literal serial killer before anyone ever interferes with the trajectory of his life.

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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Adding onto this for a point I missed: the fact the Duffers allegedly wrote the last two episodes and those are the only episodes where Max suddenly truly despises Billy. Just proves the Duffer bros genuinely either hate or didn’t care about his character.

And lol sorry I’m clogging your inbox but info/opinions actors have on their characters should be taken into account.people who disregard Dacre and his thoughts on Billy for the Duffers are kinda silly bc Dacre seems to have put more thought into Billy than the Duffers. I mean the actors are the ones who ultimately interpreted what the writers gave them so their thoughts on why a character acts a certain way should be considered pretty important.

Also your anti duffer is on point. I’m not 100% on this but supposedly in s4 they only wrote the last two eps which is probs why they kinda suck and why there’s this weird whiplash between the last two eps and the rest esp with Max and her feelings on Billy.

It's all good! And yeah. Like for example last night I told my sister something along the lines of "I feel like Dacre's version of the character should be interpreted as canon because he's the one who did all the research" and she shut me down with "well the Duffers made the show."

Okay. Then in that case, let's disregard every headcanon or anything every other actor or fan has said, because they didn't make the show. Some people are so determined to hate Billy that they completely disregard Dacre's opinion, which seems? Shitty? Because in interviews Dacre seems to insinuate he and his father aren't on the best of terms, and imagine trying so hard to humanize your character based on your own trauma only for the show's producers AND a good majority of the fandom to still call your character an irredeemable jackass.

Like. I'd be pissed.

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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i honestly applaud you for being more open-minded and intelligent than billy antis who are the same age as you! you seem very cool and I would like to be internet friends!! <3

Thank you so much! Yeah, Billy antis are entitled to their opinions, but their behavior makes me think a lot of them have a really loose grasp on abuse victims. Because, loathe as they seem to admit it— some people do have trauma responses like Billy's. Not all abuse victims have just depressive reactions to their trauma. There is so much more to it than that. Unfortunately for them, not every abuse victim is someone for them to coddle like a child. That's just life.

#stranger things #billy hargrove #answered #cw: abuse

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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And lol sorry I’m clogging your inbox but info/opinions actors have on their characters should be taken into account.people who disregard Dacre and his thoughts on Billy for the Duffers are kinda silly bc Dacre seems to have put more thought into Billy than the Duffers. I mean the actors are the ones who ultimately interpreted what the writers gave them so their thoughts on why a character acts a certain way should be considered pretty important.

Also your anti duffer is on point. I’m not 100% on this but supposedly in s4 they only wrote the last two eps which is probs why they kinda suck and why there’s this weird whiplash between the last two eps and the rest esp with Max and her feelings on Billy.

It's all good! And yeah. Like for example last night I told my sister something along the lines of "I feel like Dacre's version of the character should be interpreted as canon because he's the one who did all the research" and she shut me down with "well the Duffers made the show."

Okay. Then in that case, let's disregard every headcanon or anything every other actor or fan has said, because they didn't make the show. Some people are so determined to hate Billy that they completely disregard Dacre's opinion, which seems? Shitty? Because in interviews Dacre seems to insinuate he and his father aren't on the best of terms, and imagine trying so hard to humanize your character based on your own trauma only for the show's producers AND a good majority of the fandom to still call your character an irredeemable jackass.

Like. I'd be pissed.

#stranger things #billy hargrove #the duffer brothers #dacre montgomery

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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I feel like if Billy was played by someone who looked younger and closer to his cannonical age of 17-18 people would take Karen’s bs in s2-3 more seriously. Like ily Dacre. You’re amazing for the role and your changes made Billy hella interesting but you don’t look like you’re 17. Idk but I think bc none of the actors of the young characters are really near their characters age it messes with people’s perception of what’s ok and not for them.

Yeah, that's definitely true. But even with that, it wouldn't take a lot of research to know what Karen did was several shades of wrong, and the fandom is hyping up a groomer. While putting down an abuse victim in the same breath.

#stranger things #billy hargrove #karen wheeler #cw: grooming

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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I forgot to add this, but the Duffers also use racism as a plot device. Constantly. They will throw racial fucking slurs into their script, but they refuse to have a single scene where they actually discuss racism. Shows how much of a fuck they really give.

Actually, you know what? I'm already screaming. Here's one last post about Every. Bad. Writing. Decision. The Duffer Brothers have made (in order!)

Killing off every friend Nancy has so they don't have to bother with dynamics. Why bother giving Nancy any character she could have chemistry with besides Steve and Jonathan? I can understand Barb's death, because she was a key point in establishing the show's center conflict (though that brings up my problem of using character's as plot devices, but I digress). Keeping Fred around? Oh, God forbid. That would give Nancy autonomy beyond her love triangle with Jonathan and Steve! Honestly, Nancy's entire character sometimes reeks of fucking misogyny.

Killing off any independent female character who's arc might not revolve around another male character. Once again. Misogyny. Even with Robin, you can argue her character sometimes relies to heavily upon her friendship with Steve.

Using abuse victims as throw away plot devices. Glad to know that's all we're good for!

Allowing Billy a fleshed out backstory and then backpedaling and calling him an irredeemable sociopath. Let's not even talk about how harmful that is to say to those who suffer from actual sociopathy.

Not bothering to write Robin an actual unique love interest and just making Vickie a carbon copy. Because, oh no, writing queer love stories actually takes a smidgen of effort! She doesn't even get a last name.

Turning the eldritch horror of the Upside Down into something controlled by one man. It immediately made the show 100x less interesting.

Anyway, my point is, I should write for Stranger Things. Sure, I haven't even graduated high school yet, but I'd do a far better job! /J

#stranger things #racism

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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Actually, you know what? I'm already screaming. Here's one last post about Every. Bad. Writing. Decision. The Duffer Brothers have made (in order!)

Killing off every friend Nancy has so they don't have to bother with dynamics. Why bother giving Nancy any character she could have chemistry with besides Steve and Jonathan? I can understand Barb's death, because she was a key point in establishing the show's center conflict (though that brings up my problem of using character's as plot devices, but I digress). Keeping Fred around? Oh, God forbid. That would give Nancy autonomy beyond her love triangle with Jonathan and Steve! Honestly, Nancy's entire character sometimes reeks of fucking misogyny.

Killing off any independent female character who's arc might not revolve around another male character. Once again. Misogyny. Even with Robin, you can argue her character sometimes relies to heavily upon her friendship with Steve.

Using abuse victims as throw away plot devices. Glad to know that's all we're good for!

Allowing Billy a fleshed out backstory and then backpedaling and calling him an irredeemable sociopath. Let's not even talk about how harmful that is to say to those who suffer from actual sociopathy.

Never once bringing up the fact Karen groomed Billy? Having Karen groom Billy in the first place?

Not bothering to write Robin an actual unique love interest and just making Vickie a carbon copy. Because, oh no, writing queer love stories actually takes a smidgen of effort! She doesn't even get a last name.

Turning the eldritch horror of the Upside Down into something controlled by one man. It immediately made the show 100x less interesting.

Anyway, my point is, I should write for Stranger Things. Sure, I haven't even graduated high school yet, but I'd do a far better job! /J

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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The duffers shouldn’t get credit for most of the show honestly other than perhaps the main storyline. Anything that made the show’s characters interesting was typically the actors not them. Steve actually being good and not an assaulter was Joe’s work. Robin being gay and not Steve’s next love interest was Maya. Ofc Billy being a victim of abuse and not just a one sided villain was Dacre. Eddie flirting with Chrissy was how Joseph wanted to play the part not how it was written.

They are just so out of touch with what their characters are like it’s knots like they never watched their own show lmao. Billy is the most evilest character in their eyes while Dr. Brenner who literally experimented on and tortured kids has this semi-redemption in s4 and is deemed ok. Jason who started a lynch mob for some kids is excused bc he lost Chrissy. 001 is also not so bad despite being a murderer. God forbid any of Billy’s actions be explained and explored because he was a one sided villain to them jfc. Anyways the Duffers contribute fuck all to the show and everything that drew me into the show was the result of actors changing shit not them.

Literal-fucking-ly! If it weren't for the actors input, the show wouldn't be half as fucking popular because it would be full of the same one-note eighties stereotypes. Robin and Steve would've been pretty boy meets eccentric girl and they fall in love. Billy would've been the shitty jock asshole. Eddie would've been the corrupt drug dealer to turn golden girl Chrissy bad. Guess who saved us from the Duffers' boring characters? I'll give you a hint— it wasn't them changing their minds!

Like, I get they're the producers, which means they have full reign over how they want their show to be perceived. However, this doesn't mean they're like. Right.

Anyway, yeah. I'm convinced the Duffers only write in abuse victims as plot devices. Remember Patrick? Probably not, considering he got fuck all when it came to screen time and his abuse was used to shovel Vecna's choice of victims into the show. Same with Chrissy when it came to her mother.

They're more interested in giving the man who— and I'm not going to sugarcoat it— tortured children a fleshed out redemption arc than the angry abuse victim, who they just said "he died for everyone! God, aren't we great at writing character arcs?"

Jason is an entirely different issue, because you're gonna say Jason's reaction to his girlfriend dying is fully justified (y'know, him forming an entire fucking lynch mob) but Billy's reaction to eighteen years of abuse with zero-to-none support is evil? Especially when Billy did nothing close to what Jason did. I guess you can bring up him beating Steve's ass, but they were two almost adult teenagers, and this is after Billy discovers teenage Max, the sibling he's supposed to protect or else he gets beat, is hanging out with what's nearly an adult. Meanwhile, Jason literally fucking shoots at and beats the shit out of Lucas, a teenager, (when Billy did fuck all but vaguely threaten him and push him around a little? It's still not justified, but it's nowhere near what Carver did), not to mention sending his goons to chase a little black girl. And even if he hadn't done that, his lack of action literally wouldn't have had near the consequences Billy would've gotten! But guess who gets more sympathy? Poor little fucking rich boy Jason Carver.

Anyway, yeah. Me 🤝 you: despising the Duffer Brothers and the fact these fuckers cannot write characters.

#billy hargrove #dr brenner #jason carver #the duffer brothers #stranger things #answered #cw: abuse #cw: torture #cw: violence

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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One thing that really annoys me is that technically speaking, the canon version of Billy that we got is Dacre's and not whatever fuckery the duffle bags wanted. Like, what we see on screen is what Dacre did with that character and the rest (oh he is so loathsome and evil) is something that is said outside of canon (and specifically contradicts what's shown on screen, like...really? a 18yo abuse victim that we see actively fighting the MF possession is your idea of evil without redeeming qualities and the most vile creature in your story duffles? you sure about that??)

If they wanted an evil character they shouldn't have let Dacre change the story instead of trying to "fix" it in interviews (and being problematic about it bc again, the fuck are they making the abuse victim a monster for huh?)

Exactly! You get it so much.

They're basically disregarding everything Dacre said about his own character. Like fuck the opinions of your ACTORS, right? Let's just throw all the hard work of understanding their character right out the fucking window!

The way they talk about Billy is genuinely so hurtful to abuse victims, too. Like, you're telling us if we have an "inappropriate" trauma response (in quotes because there are very few responses to trauma that make you a bad person), we're loathsome and evil? More loathsome and evil than, say...

The literal child/animal murderers (001) and the people who EXPERIMENT ON CHILDREN (Brenner)? That's not loathsome and evil? You expect us to feel more sorry for them than the abuse victim who had no support system? Whatsoever? Like, sure, 001 never really had a chance to change, but Brenner did and didn't change his behavior until the very end when he had so many more chances than Billy. But yeah, we should feel more sorry for HIM.

Hell, they want us to feel more sorry for Neil. Yeah, Billy's abusive father left because "he couldn't tolerate the loss of his son" or some shit, but Billy, the abuse victim, was "loathsome and evil".

Didnt expect my answer to be so long, but the Suffer Bros have a clinical lack of brain cells, holy shit.

#billy hargrove #stranger things #dacre montgomery #cw: abuse #cw: murder #cw: experimentation #the duffer brothers #my mortal enemies.#answered

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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just so everyone knows when i say "i love billy hargrove" i am EXPLICITY talking about dacre's version of the character. it is a completely different character from the d*ffer bros version! call me kate bush because i am (dying) on that hill

#billy hargrove #dacre montgomery #stranger things #screw the duffers #i have many feelings for them and the main one is hatred!

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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Billy Hargrove & Intermittent Explosive Disorder

"Anthony, when will you stop posting about Billy Hargrove's trauma?"

Never. Next question.

Anyway, obviously I'm not a licensed psychologist. I'm literally a 16 year old junior in high school. But lately, it's been a little worm in my brain on what mental illness Billy might possibly suffer from as a result of his trauma, besides the obvious PTSD.

And in the end, when it came to narrowing it down from bipolar to borderline, I landed on IED: intermittent explosive disorder.

Most of my information is coming from Mayo Clinic, so I'll just be copy and pasting information from their page on this disorder and attaching instances of Billy's behavior that fit the descriptions.

"Intermittent explosive disorder involves repeated, sudden episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which you react grossly out of proportion to the situation."

I think this one is pretty self explanatory. This is behavior Billy exhibits throughout quite literally the entire show.

"These intermittent, explosive outbursts cause you significant distress, negatively impact your relationships, work and school, and they can have legal and financial consequences."

Throughout the show, Billy seems to constantly be under duress. You can attribute these feelings to his situation (let it be his abuse or possession), but you can clearly see how upset he gets after he explodes at Neil over Max not being his sister. It's no question the way Billy acts isolates him from the rest of the party, either. There's not much insight into the last two I can pull, so I won't go into them.

"Explosive eruptions occur suddenly, with little or no warning, and usually last less than 30 minutes. These episodes may occur frequently or be separated by weeks or months of nonaggression. Less severe verbal outbursts may occur in between episodes of physical aggression. You may be irritable, impulsive, aggressive or chronically angry most of the time."

A lot of the time time, there's no build up to Billy's violent episodes. They often last for short periods, as well. These episodes occur constantly throughout the show, and when they're not involving violent physical altercations, Billy is either yelling at Max or someone else. I don't think I need to go into detail on that last point: one of Billy's key traits is his constant anger.

"Aggressive episodes may be preceded or accompanied by:

Rage (Self-explanatory.)

Irritability (ALSO self-explanatory.)

Increased energy (If you watch some of Billy's body language, you can see he is CONSTANTLY moving, especially when he's angry. I.e:

Tingling (See below.)

Tremors (Hi. This is below. I say that because tingling is essentially internal tremors. And when do we see Billy tremoring? Once again, nearly all the time.)

Palpitations (Billy seems to constantly be in an intense state, so it'd be no surprise for his heart to palpitate.)

Chest tightness (This can go with what I said above.)

"The explosive verbal and behavioral outbursts are out of proportion to the situation, with no thought to consequences, and can include:

Temper tantrums (Billy is almost always constantly angry or sobbing.)

Tirades (Whenener he goes off on Max or her friends.)

Heated arguments (Almost every interaction of his with Max.)

Shouting (Almost every interaction in general.)

Slapping, shoving or pushing (How he fights with Max/his dad on occasion.)

Physical fights (His altercation with Steve.)

Property damage ("You know what happens when you disobey me? I break things.")

Threatening or assaulting people or animals (His constant threats toward others.)"

"You may feel a sense of relief and tiredness after the episode. Later, you may feel remorse, regret or embarrassment."

Billy seems almost burnt out after every outburst he has.

"Intermittent explosive disorder can begin in childhood — after the age of 6 years — or during the teenage years. It's more common in younger adults than in older adults. The exact cause of the disorder is unknown, but it's probably caused by a number of environmental and biological factors.

Environment. Most people with this disorder grew up in families where explosive behavior and verbal and physical abuse were common. Being exposed to this type of violence at an early age makes it more likely these children will exhibit these same traits as they mature.

Genetics. There may be a genetic component, causing the disorder to be passed down from parents to children.

Differences in how the brain works. There may be differences in the structure, function and chemistry of the brain in people with intermittent explosive disorder compared to people who don't have the disorder."

You don't see Billy's anger in a lot of his flashbacks, but it's a focal point of his character in the seasons he's present within, in which he's a teenager being on the cusp of young adulthood. It's no question that Billy grew up in a troubled environment or that Neil also has the disorder, so those are two EXTREMELY likely causes for him to inherit the disorder.

"Risk factors

These factors increase your risk of developing intermittent explosive disorder:

History of physical abuse. People who were abused as children or experienced multiple traumatic events have an increased risk of intermittent explosive disorder.

History of other mental health disorders. People who have antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder or other disorders that include disruptive behaviors, such as attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), have an increased risk of also having intermittent explosive disorder."

It's also no question that Billy grew up in a physically abusive environment with Neil, and it's clear he already suffers from PTSD. Two very clear risk factors.

—

So, anyway. All that being said, I believe there is a VERY likely chance Billy has intermittent explosive disorder. I know this probably wasn't an intended choice on the part of the Stranger Things crew, but I like thinking of Billy more realistically suffering from his trauma. The most we see as a reaction is his angry and depressive outbursts, and that's simply not all there is to trauma stemming from childhood abuse.

Also. I'd kill for someone to use this as a fic concept.

Feel free to add onto this if you please! This is just my brainrot.

#billy hargrove #cw: abuse #neil hargrove #mental illness #intermittent explosive disorder #stranger things #character study

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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TW: ABUSE

•••

Now that I think about it, Billy Hargrove is a great case study into the topic that nobody gives a shit about abuse victims once their trauma stops being digestible.

I'm not gonna try and excuse his actions, because I'm well aware that's bad. There's still a whole post up on my Tumblr of me defending his actions (with additions!), and I keep it up to remind myself that abuse does not equal an excuse.

But you know what his actions don't also equal? Harping on that he fucking deserved it!

Like, antis have no idea just how fucking harmful that rhetoric is. Just because his trauma resulted in anything other than him being your coddled little "traumatized baby" uwu, suddenly he deserves everything that happened him? Suddenly Billy, SOMEONE WHO HAD BEEN ABUSED FOR EIGHTEEN FUCKING YEARS, didn't deserve better?

I literally dare you fuckers to find someone with a trauma response similar to Billy's and say that shit to their FACE. Say that they deserve everything bad that's happened to them (or GOING to happen to them) because their reaction to their trauma wasn't appropriate for you. Maybe then you people will get a fucking grip on how harmful what you say is.

You guys will excuse Mike's actions as a reaction to his trauma but not Billy's. And you know why? Because Mike's trauma was digestible! So yeah, you'll cut Mike the slack. And in of itself, there's no shame in that.

It's when you turn around and say another character's reaction to their trauma suddenly makes them irredeemable and deserving of everything that came to them, that their reaction to their trauma suddenly means they didn't deserve any better than what they got.

And sure, you can say "Billy's trauma hurt the people around him that didn't deserve it." And that's true. But Mike's trauma ALSO hurt the people around him, and nobody seems to beat on him the way they beat on Billy. There's no real underlying big meaning to that point, it's just me pointing out a double standard.

Taking words away from another post, when Billy antis start talking, they start sounding a lot like Neil.

But, yeah. Billy deserved it because his trauma response wasn't acceptable to you.

Go fuck yourself.

(P.S.: The way everyone says they "only hate" Billy for being prejudiced, being violent towards the party, being violent in general, and especially for "going after" Karen Wheeler and not because of his trauma still sounds a lot like victim blaming. If you're gonna make those points against Billy, I beg that you keep in mind the one person who could've shielded him from the behavior and rhetoric Neil exposed him to ended up leaving, and after that, there was no point in time he was exposed to a decent support system. So maybe you should blame Neil? Karen Wheeler is a different story, but whatever. Just remember your "girlboss!" is a groomer.)

#stranger things #billy hargrove #rant #pro billy hargrove #wouldnt really consider this pro billy. just anti anti-billy #im so sick of this fandom bro #neil hargrove #abuse

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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nice

#fanfiction #ao3 #kudos

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anthonysfuneral · 2 years

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hahaha hey guys what if i wrote a steddie they both die at the end au. just a thought. a mere hypothesis

#stranger things #steddie #steve harrington #eddie munson #they both die at the end #fanfiction #au

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