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nebraska-is-a-myth · 11 months

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Abuse in 'Runaway Max': A Stranger Things criticism

One thing I know to keep in mind is that the book is told from Max’s perspective, so it's her eyes we experience the world from, and her opinions that guide us through the story. For that we have to value her as a somewhat unreliable narrator, considering she is thirteen at the time and dosnt understand certain things.

A quick timeline to keep in mind because the book handles time very messily:

Billy has just turned 17 by the time Max and Billy first meet.

After Halloween in season 2, Max says she’s known Billy for 7 months, which takes us back to early May.

They move in together three weeks after the wedding in late June, meaning Max and Billy have lived together for a total of 5 months by the time they get to Hawkins.

Neil confiscates Billy's car keys for two months in June, so I’ve taken an educated guess that Max first witnesses Neil's abuse somewhere around august, then in September/October Billy breaks Max’s friends arm, leaving for Hawkins late October.

Now onto the deep dive:

In 'Runaway Max', we learn about the terrible Hargrove family dynamic, and how the Mayfield's learn to navigate that. Max gets a very graphic front row seat of Billy's abuse in chapter 10, and during that chapter Max responds to that situation as any 13 year old would, scared and confused. Despite this however, Billy's image doesn't change in Max’s mind. She has no visible compassion for Billy at any point of the book except from this chapter, and after that she states that she’s actively trying not to care about “his stupid life and his cruel dad”.

From a writing standpoint, choosing this to be a part of Max’s character takes away from her complex experiences in an abusive household. Yes Max is a hardened character, but not exploring these difficult topics of disliking Billy while also feeling sorry for him makes her feel like just another pawn for the audience to make them dislike Billy. The writers could have made the step-siblings dynamic much more interesting to have them navigate this terrifying experience together. But I understand the duffers just wanted another one dimensional antagonist for season 2.

"I'd watched the Hargroves in action. Neil standing over billy with the belt - calling me a stupid little girl - making it clear that he thought I was weak and pointless. Knowing Neil believed that still wasnt as bad as the way Billy had hated me for trying to help him"

I have mixed feelings about this. I feel this description Max gives dutiful to anyone going through that situation, that they would feel disheartened by someone rejecting their help, and verbally berating them for it. However, it’s vitally important to understand the context of Why Billy reacts to Max this way.

During the assault on Billy that Max witnesses, Max calls out and interrupts Neil, trying to diffuse the situation. Neil responds not to Max, but to Billy “Is this the son I raised? A worthless loser who needs a little girl to fight his battles for him?” And then strikes billy again.

Max assumes this to be an attack on her, however that's not what's happening at all. Neil is using Max against Billy. He takes Max’s intervention as a sign of Billy's own weakness, a softness. “Any hint of softness and he would never let me forget” In a way Billy had been trying to teach Max to harden herself so that Neil couldn't find anything to target her for, Billy had been making her more likeable for Neil. And now this softness that Max is showing for Billy, by standing up for him, is getting him punished. It’s been implied before that this was the case, but now we are seeing it explicitly that Billy is being punished for Max’s actions. This chain reaction forces Billy into a position where he cannot be on Maxes side, he cannot be friends with Max, because siding with anyone other than his father equals punishment.

After Neil leaves, we circle back round to the sentence “Sometimes Billy acted like we were in on some big, crucial secret together / like we were in some sort of secret club together - like we could be on the same team” Billy had been trying to tell her from the beginning, they were both members of a club trying to navigate life with Neil Hargrove, bonded by shared experience. They were supposed to be on the same team too, victims of Neil, but Neil has made that impossible by using Max against Billy. “I could see all the ways he hated me” Neil isolates one from the other, Billy resents Max for getting him hurt, and Max resents Billy for rejecting her.

During most of the sections of the book that happen in Hawkins, Max continues to call Billy a “Monster”. However, never Neil. It’s not untrue that Billy has a mean streak, he can be cruel and heartless, most notably when he breaks the arm of one of Max’s friends. The only time this level of violence is seen in Hawkins is during the fight with Steve.

Both of these big outbursts of rage are built up by attacks from Neil. Note: Billy is still an asshole, these are not excuses for his actions only explanations.

Yes, there are two occasions in which Billy grabs hold of Max’s arm, but there is an argument to be made that this is just normal sibling behaviour. Have you never pushed or shoved your sibling before, or been on the receiving end of that physicality. It’s not always pleasant, but it’s not uncommon for siblings to get physical during disagreements. Max is also only distressed by this on the first occasion, “He caught me by the arm, and it wasn't the first time he’s ever touched me, but other times had always been to push me out of the way in the kitchen or flick me on the end of my nose. This time, his fingers closed hard around my elbow” - however the second and last time goes like this “He reached out fast and caught me by the wrist”. Those are the only times Billy is ever physical with Max.

Despite this, Billy is still the monster. “Billy was the closest thing to one that I had ever known - this was what it meant to live with the monster.” Monster singular. Billy is the most terrible thing living in the Hargrove home, not the man who beats his son.

Personally I find something off putting with Max ranking Billy as a worse monster than Neil. During the night at the byers she says "I understood now that Neil was in his head, and that meant he was just as dangerous as his father. Worse because Neil was cruel and frightening but he cared how things looked on the outside. Billy was crazy" Max isn't stupid, she knows Neil is a bad person, and maybe from Maxes point of view Billy is worse than Neil because Neil hasn't ever physically hurt her. But from a writer's point of view, to say that the victim is worse than the abuser? That is both dangerous and honestly disgusting. To call Billy crazy, and insinuate that he’s acting like a ‘bad victim’ because he doesn't pretend that everything is normal is so hurtful to victims of abuse who see themselves in Billy.

Continuing this thought, Max then goes on to compare Billy to a recently possessed Will. Which, first off, comparing abuse is never okay. But what Max says is almost worse, "Will had turned into something terrible and frightening, but even with the mind flayer working through him, he was trying not to let it. He'd almost gotten us killed, but you couldn't blame him because he didn't ask for this. He was trying so hard to stop it" Is the author trying to say that Billy should try harder to not let the abuse he has been experiencing at the hands of his father since before he was ten, affect him? Because if Brenna Yovanoff is using Will as a ‘good’ example of a victim of parental abuse, and using him to discount Billy's own experiences, then I’m sorry but who let this book go to print?

Obviously as a character Max choosing this comparison means very little to her because she doesn't know about Lonnie, but the writers do. Comparing Billy to will is a choice.

Billy and will have both experienced abuse from their fathers. Will is on one side of the spectrum of victims, quiet, timid and apologetic. Billy is on the opposite end of that spectrum, his experiences have hardened him, made him angry about what's happening to him. Billy isn't quiet, he’s an asshole and he has issues with authority, but the one thing that sets Billy and Will apart is the fact that Billy is still experiencing that abuse.

Will is a survivor, Billy isn't.

To imply that "you can't blame Will because he didn't ask for it", but it’s okay to blame Billy, does that mean we are supposed to think Billy is asking for it?

There are choices writers make in the information they reveal to their readers, the phrasing that is used and the comparisons they make. It speaks volumes that while Will is praised for his experiences and bravery with his dad, Billy is called a monster for acting out because of those same experiences.

I mean, tell me you're a writer who doesn't understand the complex reactions to abuse without telling me you only care about “good” reactions to abuse.

#stranger things #billy hargrove #max mayfield #runaway max #stranger things book #neil hargrove #abuse mention #stranger things meta #I have a lot of feelings about the way Billys abuse is portrayed and mostly forgotten about in the show #runaway max makes me physically sick with how it describes billy and max's indifferance to Billys abuse #I love when shows have no idea what theyre talking about when it comes to the spectrum of abuse #nebraska speaks

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stranger-rants · 1 year

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The lock outside Billy's bedroom door (to lock him in) is likely a set error, but it would have been excellent environmental story telling given we don't know what exactly happened to Billy after the events of season 2. It makes sense. Too much sense, that Neil being the controlling person he is would lock Billy in his room as a punishment. Crazy how this stuff just happens on ST by accident.

#billy hargrove #neil hargrove

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genderflu1dwh0r · 9 months

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Are you stupid?

You can be racist and have POC friends, Jason is way worse than Billy any day. Jason isn't the one being abused by his father everyday, he isn't poor, he didn't get taken from his home and live with a step sibling that he didn't know that well.

Jason is a horrible person and got his friend to tackle Erica, then he held a gun at Lucas. You can't tell me that that isn't racist, you can't tell me that's worse than what Billy ever did. Jason said "I thought you were one of the good ones". That. Is. Racist.

Billy got his bad traits from his father. Billy got beat by his father. Billy was crying into the phone for his mom to come home. Billy had no support system. Steve was the only person that Billy bullied and tormented, and in my opinion, Steve is a worse character than Billy.

Steve threw slurs, while Billy got slurs thrown at him by his own father. Just because you don't care about abuse victims, doesn't mean you have to spread your hate.

I think that Billy just wanted Lucas to stop hanging around because if Neil found out, Billy would be the one getting beat. Neil would probably hurt Lucas way more than Billy could have ever done. Billy was protecting Max and himself, he was scared that Neil would find out. He did care and love Max, he just showed it in some confusing ways.

Also, the Duffer brothers are racist, they wanted Dacre to say the N word. Dacre protested and it ended up not happening. Billy saying the N word isn't canon, cause it didn't happen in the show. Stop always going to that excuse for him being a bad person. He never said any slur.

People say "if the actor wasn't hot, then people wouldn't have liked him" and I disagree. His character is very interesting. He has a backstory, he has trauma, he has an actual interesting plot unlike any other character. Dacre is also a very amazing actor, he was able to make Billy even more interesting.

Dacre has said that his art imitates his life. He put his own life into the character, he didn't have a great relationship with his dad, he has said this.

Max is a horrible person too, she drugged Billy with something that she didn't know was in, almost hit him with Steve's bat, screamed at him before leaving and stealing his car. Billy could have died on the floor, he was drugged and had no car. Tell me that that isn't abuse. Just because Billy grabbed her wrist ONE time, doesn't mean it's abuse.

Siblings fight all the time, it's just what happens. Especially how their family dynamics was. I and many others have fights with our siblings. You get over it in like a day. That doesn't make Billy a bad person. He did some really shitty things, yes. But that doesn't excuse all the hate he gets. He's a complex character, no other character is like him.

That's why he's my baby boy. I relate to him, I'm an abuse victim, I love knowing that I have a character to relate to. Stop blaming abuse victims on how they grew up, they can change. He could have changed if he didn't die. He could have, but nobody let him.

Nobody tried to help him. He didn't have a support system. The people who compare Jonathan to Billy are wild, cause Jonathan did have a support system, his mother did so much. Billy had nobody. His father beat him, hi stepmother did NOTHING to stop Neil, she just watched. She was clearly abused too, but she's the adult, she has to be there for Billy. She has to get Max away from all of this, which in season 4, she did. But she turned into an even worse mom.

Right here. He was trying to get help, he was trying to get the MF to get out. He wanted someone to help him. He kept fighting, and that's how he saved everyone on the day he died. He knew he was going to die, he was sobbing.

Try to think before talking bad against Billy.

Why do people say Vecna/Henry/Jason/Troy/James/Angela are better than Billy?

Vecna/Henry literally tried to kill children and the whole world. Billy wanted to have some fun and games, he would never go to prison for killing a child. He was never going to hit Mike, Lucas, Dustin, or Will.

Troy/James made Mike jump off of a fucking cliff while wanting to take Dustins teeth out. Tell me that isn't fucked. MIKE WOULD HAVE DIED IF EL WASN'T THERE!!

Jason held a fucking gun to Lucas's head and got Erica hurt. He sent a witch-hunt over Eddie and that ended up killing that poor boy. Literally, he was poor and Jason is a rich christian white boy. Tell me that isn't classist. Jason also did this to get information out of a kid.

Angela deserved the roller skate to the face for what she did to El. I would have done the same thing, El never deserved any of what she went through there.

Anyone going to object? Cause you can't, my points are spot on. Why aren't we gonna get mad at Jamie Campbell Bower over saying he relates to Vecna/Henry? If Dacre is bad for doing so, why can't we shame Jamie for the same thing?

I would count the MF taking over Billy like that as a reference of sexual assault. His body gets taken away from him, he is crying for help, he is scared and tried to tell someone. I've talked to SA survivors and they agree.

Anyway, I am pissed at Billy antis and I am just so done with them.

#stranger things #billy hargrove #st billy #stranger things billy #dacre montgomery #neil hargrove #max mayfield #steve harrington #jason carver

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c0bblenygma · 2 years

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OK BUT CAN WE TALK ABOUT NEIL LEAVING SUSAN AND MAX AND MAX SAYING ITS BECAUSE HE COULDNT HANDLE BEING THERE WITHOUT BILLY?

FUCK YOU DUFFERS

YOU DONT GET TO DO THIS

YOU DONT GET TO MAKE NEIL SEEM LIKE A GOOD FATHER WHO MISSES HIS SON

YOU DONT

HE WAS AN ABUSIVE PIECE OF SHIT

FUCK YOU VERY MUCH

#billy hargrove #neil hargrove #stranger things 4 spoilers #stranger things 4 #stranger things spoilers #stranger things #st4 #st4 spoilers

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imsodishy · 1 year

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people who say they're happy that Billy died, and in particular are happy for Max that Billy died have missed a really obvious and simple fact which is that Max's life got demonstrably worse after he was gone.

And I don't just mean her struggling with guilt and grief (although obviously I mean that too). I mean look how happy and carefree she was in S3 doing whatever she wanted and facing no consequences. Hanging with friends all day, going to movies with her boyfriend, sleepovers with El. She's joking and happy and not worried about anything, least of all Billy, who's obvious peril she tries to deny until she simply can't anymore.

Once Billy was gone their parents started fighting, because Billy wasn't there to absorb Neil’s anger and keep the rest of the house on a relatively even keel. The marriage quickly dissolved and her mother crumbled. Underlying, prexisting issues of her parenting got pushed to the forefront and Max suffers for it.

Billy was used to spackle over all the cracks. He was forced to be a stopgap parent when the real parents couldn't be bothered. He was a scapegoat for everyone else's shit, so they could pretend that they were fine, and Billy alone was the problem.

Billy was not the problem. He was not the disease, he was just the most obvious symptom of the cancer in that house, made all the more obvious by the fact that excising him fixed nothing.

#billy hargrove #neil hargrove #susan hargrove #max mayfield #billy and max

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maltedmilkks · 1 year

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was rewatching some stuff and noticed some things during the scene where neil hits billy:

1. billy becomes more defensive after neil calls him the f slur

2. neil makes billy apologize to SUSAN, who, afterwards, says “it’s okay, neil, really.” not even acknowledging billy, only neil

3. the delay in the door shutting and billy crying definitely means susan saw him cry

4. billy only cries after neil leaves

5. they were FOUR HOURS LATE and just expected billy to drop everything to continue watching max, further solidifying that neil really wanted him controlling her whole life

6. susan watches this whole thing go down. does nothing about it. who knows why! neil is a confirmed wife beater, so. idk. but it still irks me.

7. billy’s lack of eye contact and small tone of voice when first told max was gone, trying to soothe the situation “im sure she went to the arcade/she’s with her friends/im sure she’s fine”

the 80s were a time where kids ran off and did stuff like this REGULARLY. it’s not uncommon. neil is just strict and controlling as fuck and wants billy to do his bad bidding. anyway see ya

#stranger things #billy hargrove #stranger things 2 #neil hargrove #neil hargrove explode challenge

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mrsblackruby · 11 months

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Am I the only one in the Billy fandom who thinks Neil is the type of abuser who takes advantage and uses every single one of Billy’s own genuine shortcomings as wiggle room to mistreat him. It’s probably the most common opportunity for Neil to “justify” his abuse towards Billy. Neil gives me goosebumps. Billy probably has no idea how to even cope with his own issues cuz he doesn’t want to give his abuser an inch. While at the same time feeling he’s to blame for his abuse because of each misstep he’s made. I know I’m not the only one. And everyone time i see this scenario in a billy centric fic it guts me. It’s tooo good.

#tw neil hargrove #neil hargrove #billy hargrove #harringrove #mungrove #I just wanted to appreciate this trope #projecting

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lovebillyhargrove · 1 year

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Neil Hargrove liked it when everything went as it was supposed to. According to the plan, no surprises.

That night he finished work at 6 pm, got into his truck and drove home where his wife was waiting for him to have dinner together. Family dinner.

Two months ago Neil lost his son in the terrible fire that happened in that newly-built mall just outside of Hawkins.

So now Neil's family consisted of his wife Susan and his step-daughter Maxine. If you asked Neil if he loved his family, well, of course he would say yes. What a ridiculous question.

If you asked him if he loved his son, of course, he would say yes as well. It's just that Billy was always very difficult, and Neil had to discipline him ardently, but that's what fathers are for, right? They have to teach their sons respect and responsibility, must show them how to become real men. By all means possible.

Real men don't cry. Neil did not cry when he got the news of his only son's death. He was devastated, of course. Did he ever think that he might have done something wrong along the way?

He didn't. Neil Hargrove was always right.

The evening was going its course, and Neil drove home and parked his truck in the driveway. Susan had been planning to cook roast beef tonight, and Neil was looking forward to having a good dinner, a can of beer after and a baseball game on TV.

When he got out of the truck and headed to the door, something attracted his attention. A car was going down the road, and the car seemed oddly familiar. It also looked .. demolished, as if it drove right out of a scrapyard. One front light was smashed, there was a huge dent on one of the sides, minor dents all over it, the paint seemed to have peeled off. It looked as if the car had been in an accident .. and in a fire. How was it physically possible for this pile of scrap metal to actually drive?? It was dragging itself along the road, an eerie rattling sound of the engine that seemed to be on its last gears. What the hell??

In those rare places where the paint had stayed, Neil saw that it was blue. Deep blue like .. like the sea.

The car was slowly driving in the direction of 5280 Cherry Lane, and Neil stopped in his tracks, changed his course. Curiosity got the better of him. Instead of going inside the house, he went to the road to get a better look. It couldn't be happening. It couldn't be happening, his son Billy was dead, and his car, an invalid, was rotting away on the outskirts of Hawkins, in an abandoned junkyard. What was it doing here, how was it possible for it to drive, who was behind the wheel?? The sun was already reaching the horizon, and it wasn't easy to see in the settling evening twilight..

What Neil saw, turned his blood into ice.

There was no driver. The car .. was going down the road by itself. Like a headless horseman. Neil was still standing on the curb on the sidewalk, looking at the familiar car in sheer horror.

He knew he had to run.

He couldn't move.

The car started to drive faster.

And Neil knew he had to fucking run.

His soles were glued to the asphalt.

A second later, the inconceivable happened. Something straight out of a horror movie. The car - which used to belong to Neil's dead son Billy - the camaro Billy had bought back in California for 350 bucks and had breathed second life into, lovingly repairing everything with his own hands -

The car caught on fire.

Out of the blue, it .. self-ignited? What in god's name was happening?

Neil knew he had to move, to run, to get out of there.

The camaro was driving directly at him at a much faster speed now, and when Neil finally turned on his heels realising that it was already too late, it ran into him, crashing his body, ran him over, crushing his bones,

And drove away, flames slowly dying down, leaving Neil Hargrove's breathless body, having caught fire, behind it.

***

Had an idea of Billy's Camaro taking revenge on certain Hawkins residents after Starcourt. (Might've seen a couple of gifs from "Christine"). Want to write a fic. Part 2/3/4

Part 2

#billy hargrove #Billy's Camaro #the car which comes alive #sort of #billy and neil #neil hargrove #supernatural stuff

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