#wot episode 7
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MAIDEN HAND TALK!!!!
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"This is some of the most fun work we’ve seen from the talented actor Dónal Finn all season; he gets that Mat is a depressive character, and so when Mat has moments of joy and elation — whether that’s simply reuniting with his friends or realizing he was born to be the leader of the most legendary assemblage of heroes ever known — he really makes them almost radiate inner sunlight. It’s just a pleasure to see Mat happy." –Vulture
#wotedit#wot#wot on prime#the wheel of time#mat cauthon#mine#wot show spoilers#I WILL NEVER BE OVER THIS EVER#man!!!!!!!!!!!!#'why have they spent 7 episodes harping on about mat being dark and not letting him succeed at anything'#so that i would BAWL MY FREAKING EYES OUT DURING THE HORN SCENE that's why!!!#LOOK AT HIS FACE!!!!! he's so happy so relieved so emotional!!!#it's amazing that they were able to take the massive unplanned change to mat's story caused by barney's departure#and not just work around it but create such a beautiful and moving character arc out of it#show!mat IS different from book!mat. different and BETTER. there i said it
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Anaiya nodded. "We understand your reasons for disliking Elaida, even hating her. We do understand. But we must think of the Tower and the world. I confess I do not like Elaida myself. But then I have never liked Siuan either. It is not necessary to like the Amyrlin Seat. There is no need to glare so Siuan. You have had a file for a tongue since you where a novice and it has only roughened with the years. And as Amyrlin you pushed sisters where you wanted and only seldom explained why. The two do not make for a very likeable combination."
-The Fires of Heaven, Chapter 27: The Practice of Diffidence
Re-reading The Fires of Heaven has made me increasingly confident in the show's read of Siuan's character being book accurate (an opinion I originally articulated here). I always encourage re-reads of the books, but I would very much encourage re-reading The Shadow Rising and The Fires of Heaven specifically if you are doubting the choices the team made in episode 7.
Cause the thing is, Siuan's central character flaw- the one Anaiya is trying to gently cite above, the one on heavy display all throughout both books via Siuans treatment of those around her, is her complete lack of trust paired with a willingness to force and browbeats others into doing what she thinks is best.
It is, ironically, a trait she shares with Rand- both are unafraid to use their power (physical, magical, political- what have you) to make others obey, and both also are unwilling to demonstrate trust and good faith out of a fear of showing weakness. It's something born inherently of their shared insecurities about their respective positions of power- Siuan's young rise to the Seat and the fact that she is carrying on her conspiracy with Moiraine and Rand's belief that he isn't strong enough/good enough/hard enough to be the Dragon Reborn alongside the tendency of the people he cares about to get hurt or have their lives ruined by simple proximity to him.
Throughout both The Shadow Rising and The Fires of Heaven Siuan uses primarily tactics drawn form the same playbook that would later also lead Rand to disaster in the back half of the series: she comes to view those under charge more for their value to her agenda then as people she should be looking after, forcing Min to remain in the Tower against her will, refusing to make any effort to console or reassure those who care about Elayne (Gawyn, Galad, Morgase) that she is well, and engaging in many actions because their are expedient without regard for their moral implications (ordering Mazrim Taim's execution without trial, lying about Logain being set up by the Red Ajah, manipulation Logain so he has no choice but to follow along with her plan). And I don't think it's a mistake that many of those actions either lead to, or directly follow, Siuan's downfall in the Tower.
In fact, Siuan begins to make the turn in her character after encountering Mistress Tharne, which largely sets in motion Siuan's character arc for the remainder of the series: realizing that she can not force the word to conform to her will, not least of all because she is no longer the most powerful woman on the planet, but more over because it's wrong. Mistress Tharne's rough treatment of Siuan, her complete lack of respect or deference, is a wake call to Siuan that gives her empathy and understanding of the way she treated others when she held power. Much of her arc there after is about emphasizing that point, first as a stilled woman serving Aes Seadi, then as a restored but drastically weakened Aes Sedai.
In this way Siuan gets a taste of what it's like to be on the other side- forced and expected to obey, constantly fighting against a system rigged against her from the start, meant to keep her out of circles of power and away from the ability to make decisions as a woman who can not channel, and then as a Aes Sedai who does not stand high enough in the hierarchy. More over it gives her perspective on why things like the Oaths and the Tower's traditions matter- on the ways the Oaths protect ordinary people and the way Tower traditions like 'staying out of the business of other Aes Sedai' and 'respect secrets of individual sisters and Ajahs' help keep Aes Sedai working together and functional. But it's really her friendships, which she is able make on now even terms, with Nynaeve and Egwene, that help her gain empathy and understanding, and in particular allows her (via her mentorship of Egwene) to try and positively influence the Tower's future via reforms to make it more equitable, less mired and fractious and cracked.
As Amylrin, we're told, Siuan ruled by playing one faction in the Tower against another, widening the cracks between Ajahs and within them so that no one was able to effectively oppose her and her agenda- that is until someone came along who could rally support, to take advantage of those simmering frustrations and angers in order tear her down. But that person, Elaida, shared many of her faults and few of her virtues- instead of playing one faction against and brow beating, Elaida (with the Shadow's help) turned the Tower into armed camps ready to lash out at each other. Siuan's tendency (often cited by even herself) to send sisters to do penance on farms for opposing or annoying her, became Elaida using the same tool to humiliate and punish her enemies and using edicts to demote them to Accepted for being weak, and Siuan's precedent for keeping secrets and working around the Hall became Elaida plotting to kidnap Rand and 'make him supple' via Galina's embassy.
And it's a neat closing of the circle, the kind Jordan really likes to play with, that Siuan's redemption for this is her training of the woman who will replace both her and Elaida. Someone who will actually fulfill both women's ambitions of leading the Tower in the last battle- Egwene. Siuan's justice against Elaida is to help prepare an Amyrlin that will be more then either she or Elaida ever could- someone who will be free of their faults, who will be able to unite the Tower as both women dreamed of doing but never could- who can guide Rand and bind the nations to him, who can serve as a general of the Light strong enough to balance the worst of the Shadow. Siuan teaches Egwene how not to do the things she did, to fall into the traps that brought her down- the arrogance, the pride, the domineering, the compromises with her own morals- and it's that teaching which, in part, gives Egwene the ability to persuade the Tower that still saw her as a Novice....to raise her to Amyrlin of it's own accord.
Siuan still should have been allowed to kill Elaida though instead of the Suffa stuff, I will die on that hill.
#WoT#Wheel of time#WoT on Prime#Wheel of time on Prime#WoT Book Spoilers#TGS Spoilers#Siuan Sanche#Egwene al'vere#Rand al'Thor#wot meta#I'm stil baffled#months later about the reaction to Siuan's actions in episode 7#Part of that is a 'oh everyone says they support women's wrongs until their a little mean about it' but more then that#Complex situations without easy answers causing characters to make bad choices is a STAPLE of Jordan's writing#And what Siuan does is STILL not nearly as morally grey as what Rand and Moiraine do in that same episode via recrutiing Lanfear's help#anyways everyone should go back and re-read TSR and TFOH#their great#send tumble
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They've done my boy Rand so dirty 😭
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Rafe Judkins and all the other writers for WoT I have some very strong opinions for you!
(not tagging characters until others hat had the chance to explode with rage)
#the wheel of time#wot on prime#wheel of time#wot show spoilers#wot season 2#wot#wot on prime spoilers#wot season 2 spoilers#Episode 7
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Fandom: The Wheel of Time (TV), Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
Word count: 2451
Relationships: Moiraine Damodred & Lan Mandragoran
Summary:
Knowing they had been walking toward that end for twenty years did not lighten the burden. They both had grown complacent out of endurance, though their resolve had never wavered.
After her night with Siuan, Moiraine steps back into her responsibilities, confronts a few ugly thoughts, and lets doubt in.
#the wheel of time#moiraine damodred#lan mandragoran#wot fic#show compliant with book backstory#I haven't written in so long I cannot remember my writing tag#fantastic#it's probably a bit sad?#I think I was being overdramatic last time#L said it was okay#this is an episode tag for ep 7#but spoilers for New Spring#married to death#you're a cool one#this brooding man#itching paper
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Okay so I was trying to finish the wotch wot propaganda video before the episode is released tomorrow but that’s not gonna happen at this point, so I’m gonna shoot for Friday instead. But the video is still happening!!
#i have been less motivated to work on it the last few days cause the fandom has been a little fraught#since episode 7 was released#but I’m still finishing this video anyway#i am still having a good time watching it#wotch wot#Caitie speaks
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wot deeper dive 2x8: what was meant to be
So excited to take a scene-by-scene look at this epic episode. This post will be dealing only with show spoilers and there will be another post later on that includes spoilers from the books.
I really loved season one, but season two has been richer, deeper, and so emotionally powerful. Have loved it so much. Posts that I'm planning to do in the next few weeks: I want to do a post covering each main character's s2 journey, I'm gonna do some speculation for s3, and I've got some posts planned on the imprisonment/control themes and the 'alone-vulnerable; together-shieldwall' theme that was so beautifully realized in the finale, and more.
But that's for the future.
For now, let's get into the show-only deep dive!
I don't think I really talked about the opening scene in my previous posts about the episode, but I really enjoyed it! I hope that future seasons continue the theme of having the final cold-open of the season be something from the Age of Legends.
2. What they did with showing the close relationship with Lews Therin and Ishamael really plays well with how Ishamael feels a kinship with Mat and thus believes that Mat is vulnerable to the same kind of philosophy and influences that Ishamael fell victim to -- he sees that Rand and Mat are close in the ways that he was close with Lews Therin, and thus believes that Mat being Rand's downfall is what is most likely to tip Rand over to the dark (alongside Egwene, who is our modern-age Lanfear counterpart imo). I really love what they've done with this relationship and with how Ishamael essentially tricked himself into believing that he understood Mat when he was really projecting himself onto Mat, just as he's been projecting Lews Therin onto Rand.
And we get the symmetry of Ishamael asking for death here and being denied, and then Rand killing him at the end of the episode, like he wanted.
3. We get confirmation here that LTT sealed the rest of the Forsaken first and Ishamael is last. This is where we get another name drop: Sammael. So the names that we have for sure are: Moghedien, Graendal, and Sammael (plus Ishamael and Lanfear, of course).
4. It looks like the other Aes Sedai here are all men, which ties us into the discussion/argument that Lews and Latra were having in the 1x8 cold open.
5. "They say this seal is so strong, not even I could break it." And while the seals do appear to be weakened by this modern point in time, we saw the effort that Ishamael went to in 2x4 to break out Lanfear. He did that six more times in this episode before he went to confront Rand. He was worn out, y'all.
I do think it's interesting the ways that Ishamael's nihilism interacts with his behavior with Rand. Once he realizes that Rand is here, he knows that his plan for turning Rand to the Shadow has essentially failed. Because Rand's friends have come to help him, and because of Lanfear's betrayal, Ishamael knows that it's over. And part of him is grateful when Rand kills him, and relieved. He doesn't really believe that he's going to reach Rand on that tower and turn him to the Dark -- that's why he sets two back-up plans into motion: a) releasing the Forsaken and b) trying to get Rand gentled.
6. Lews Therin's resigned apologies to Ishamael here for trapping him into a Fate Worse Than Death vs Mat's frantic apologies to Rand after he accidentally stabs him with the dagger from Shadar Logoth -- Lews Therin has been forced into this because of Ishamael's choices, while Mat was tricked into hurting Rand (both here and back in 2x6, when he 'abandons' Rand).
And I love the pan-up and the reveal that the "Eye of the World" was the place where Rand and Moiraine were tricked to go in 1x8 to free Ishamael from his seal.
7. I missed the credits! Though I absolutely understand the team prioritizing getting a little more screen time in each episode, since they were forced to choose. The golden threads bursting out when Josha's name appears always give me chills.
8. Our episode proper starts with the Whitecloaks planning their attack on Falme. The way that the Whitecloaks get introduced with that fade-in from light is very intriguing. I'm not a military expert but Bornhald's strategy sounds pretty solid to me: non-military expert, lol. We can see that they're hiding in the jungle for now, and they plan to make the assault as quick as possible because they have to take out the 'witches' first or any assault is doomed.
The Whitecloaks estimate there are 28 damane with the Seanchan at this time.
I really like how we see the Whitecloaks' ranks shown by how their armor is designed. The costume design on this show has been so striking, this season even more than s1. There's an almost stained-glass quality to the bands on the armor, which helps enhance that 'church/inquisition' vibe that we are going to also get with the children swinging incense.
9. "But we have something they don't."
haha, you don't know how long it took me to realize that Bornhald was implying "we have the Light on our side". Which, funnily enough, the Seanchan ALSO believe! Both sides believe that they are the ones fighting in the name of the Light, not suspecting that here comes Rand al'Thor with the steel chair (of the Light).
But I really love how drenched this episode is in light, after a season that has been very dark (emotionally and frequently literally).
10. "The Watchers on the Waves called for help, letters to every queen, every king in the world, to the Amyrlin Seat herself, begging, but no one came."
This 100% explains the reaction of the people of Falme at the end of the episode, imo. They have been begging for help and no one has come, so they gave up hope and are just doing their best to survive each day. And then the Seanchan are driven out in a matter of hours and they see that huge-ass dragon on the tower (and this version of the story does have people knowing what a dragon looks like -- the book that Rand looks at in season one with the Karaethon Cycle has a dragon sketch in the pages (at 17:38 in episode 1x5 -- there is SO MUCH subtle lore in 1x5, y'all) -- so they know what it means when they see the dragon on the tower). They know exactly who saved them from their recent oppression.
It also ties into a theme from the books, where the different nations are so wrapped up in their own problems that they don't see the big looming apocalypse that is coming for everyone. Everyone was so busy with their own problems that they ignored the messages from Falme.
11. "These strangers are slavers and murderers. We fight them because we must."
Where's that "Heartbreaking: the worse person you know just made a great point" meme? lol. honestly, that's something that the show has been doing really well! Even people who are doing terrible things are not 100% terrible and are capable of making genuinely good arguments. And they believe in themselves and their cause. The Whitecloaks and the Seanchan are both scarier when we are seeing the True Believers in the cause.
12. And Dain brings up the prophecy here that "in Falme's greatest moment of need, the Dragon will return to us" which really gives me "King Arthur" vibes (which is fitting! one of the cool themes in the book is heroic archetypes and how the wheel turns myth into legend, and we also see the Heroes of the Horn bringing that theme into the show in the major way in this episode). So, once again, the people of Falme are going to know exactly who to credit for their big rescue and seem pretty primed to become strong supporters of the Dragon Reborn, given the information that we've gotten about the city.
Bornhald dismisses prophecy in general as "the lies of long-dead witches" and we intercut into Lanfear leading Rand & co through the Ways, which is a beautiful transition. That was excellent.
13. A lot of characters have mentioned the Falme prophecy but I don't think anyone has mentioned it to Rand, specifically. He's not coming to Falme to fulfill prophecy -- he's coming to try to save Egwene. Much like Mat's reaction to Rand was very much colored by how he abandoned Rand at the Waygate, Rand's reactions with Egwene are colored by how he abandoned her at the end of s1. We know why Rand made that choice, of course, but now he's seeing the unintended consequences of that choice.
14. Lanfear's full plan gets revealed over the course of this episode, not in a super in-your-face way, but clear enough to put all the pieces together of exactly how long she's been planning to screw over Ishamael and the rest of the Forsaken (... since the moment she woke up and learned that LTT's new incarnation was around). Some of the details of this plan go into spoilers, so I'll put it in the later post but, in brief: she's manipulated various pieces on the board to use Ishamael's own plans against him -- trapping Egwene and Nynaeve in Falme was an Ishy plan, but Lanfear was able to use Egwene's presence in Falme as a way to get Rand motivated to want to go there to rescue her and, incidentally, fulfill a teeny-tiny prophecy. After Rand killed Ishamael and was proclaimed the Dragon, she was planning to have Doman dump the rest of the Forsaken in the ocean and then she would have plenty of time to manipulate seduce her dearest Lews Therin Rand into loving her again.
And it almost worked! Well, I don't think seducing Rand a second time would have gone as well as she was hoping, but most of the plan really worked out for her.
15. It looks like the show just revealed here that Lanfear also has the Talent of being able to see fellow channelers even when they aren't embracing the Source. ("I can see it in you.")
I love Lan protectively trying to step in front of Moiraine even though he has zero chance against Lanfear. It's giving real "bless him, he tries" vibes.
Lanfear just yeeting them out onto the beach cracks me up.
It also was really great in terms of how it set Moiraine up not as one of the main players fighting in the battle, but as support from the side, smoothing the way. When Rand and the rest of them come down from the tower and are greeted by the grateful people of Falme, none of those people will know that Moiraine and Lan had anything to do with Rand's success. It feels like such a natural progression of her role -- in s1, she was the driving force that led them all to the Eye of the World... and that ended up being a massive screw-up. This time, they all find their own ways to Falme, and none of our main six young heroes are there because they're planning on fulfilling prophecy or fighting the Last Battle. They're there to save one of their own (first Egwene, and then Rand). "Think not of glory but of salvation". They didn't quote it, but the thought is there in the action of what happened in the episode.
16. "How can you think I'd ever trust you again?"
"I'm the only one who actually cares about you, Rand. Everyone else -- Ishamael, Moiraine -- they just care about what you can do."
Lanfear attempting to use her manipulating wiles on Rand. Of course, at the end of the episode, he's going to get a big reminder that she's incredibly wrong and there are a bunch of people who care about him for who he is, but even in this moment, he doesn't look like he's falling for it. And Rand didn't walk away from his friends at the end of s1 because he believed that they didn't care about him. He walked away from them because he believed that he was dangerous to them.
(and she tried to use this tactic on Rand in 2x6 as well, but she failed there too, though she may believe that she succeeded, because Rand does still extend trust to Moiraine in 2x7 when she asks him why he was leaving Cairhien and he tells her everything that he knows/believes, including very much implying that he thinks Lanfear wants to kill him after he's been proclaimed Dragon)
Lanfear lost Rand's trust when he found out who she really was and that she had been manipulating him for months. And I think she's massively underestimating what she would need to do in order to earn any of that trust back.
17. After the Maidens warn Perrin that they are getting Bad Vibes and are pretty sure that today is going to be filled with people getting killed, Perrin asks Hopper to stay behind, trying to keep him safe. Oh, Perrin, that never works. And Hopper has just as much right to be in the fight as you do.
18. Lanfear accidentally screws over her own plan because she can't bring herself not to gloat before her future husband Rand kills Ishamael. This is the big moment when we see how much Ishamael and Lanfear's plans are diverging from each other (and Ishamael sees it too). Ishamael had been planning to play the long game with Rand, keep him away from Falme until he was ready to be turned to the Shadow. Now Lanfear has jumped the gun and brought Rand at a time when Ishamael only has two of Rand's friends in hand (Egwene and Mat) and even those two have not been broken yet. He's not ready for Rand to be here! There's still so much work to be done!
19. After this conversation, Ishamael is aware that he's potentially fighting a losing battle. But he doesn't give up -- he sends in Fain to try to accelerate Mat's corruption; he prepares Suroth for the possibility of gentling Rand. He won't give up without a fight.
Ishamael does sound so intense when he talks about how Rand isn't going to "choose us".
20. ...is Lanfear wearing a dragon earcuff? I think she might be wearing a dragon earcuff/earring. That is not subtle.
I like that it seems like Lanfear believes that she's tricked Ishamael, at least in part, just like she believed that she'd tricked Rand a lot more successfully than she had (since he was very much still lumping her together with Ishamael when talking to Mat and Moiraine).
21. ...I don't ever really have much to say about the fighty-fight part of battles. The image of the Whitecloaks galloping out of the incense/fog was pretty cool.
22. Nynaeve really does have a very rough go of it in this episode. While she does manage to help, that help is in the realm of "get Elayne to the tower so that Elayne can do something". And while I understand the frustration from her fans... her block needs to actually be a problem for us to understand why she wants to get rid of it. This episode made her block a problem, one that she wasn't able to overcome at the last second when it was desperately needed. Much like Mat's low ebb this season was intentional so that we could get the amazing high of the Horn scene, Nynaeve is entering a low ebb. At the beginning of the season, she was showered in praise and special attention that she didn't want. Now she wants the power that had earned her all that praise and she can't reach it (this is similar to how Rand's lack of training needs to actually be a problem so that we understand why he needs to get some training).
23. Oof, it's hard to watch Renna with Egwene. We do get clarification that the dark facepaint is for going into battle.
Renna cutting off Egwene's braid... much like the tree she forced Egwene to burn down, she's trying to attack something that she knows brings Egwene comfort.
Egwene's eyes when she's feeling at her shorn braid. Baby!
24. I've been finding it interesting to think about What's Up with Padan Fain. So far this season, he's stayed within Ishamael's orders (to our knowledge) but when Ishamael orders him to give the dagger to Mat, we hear the whispers of it calling to him. Once Ishamael is dead, does that free Fain to follow the call of the dagger? Because when Mat was under the influence of the dagger, he still was not a fan of the Shadow. Different kinds of evil. The evil of Shadar Logoth scared the Trollocs enough that they weren't willing to chase our people into the city. I will keep an eye on future developments!
25. Poor Mat has been having a Fucking Time of it. First, he has to watch Rand leave, knowing that he's apparently fated to kill his best friend with an evil dagger. Then he gets hit on the head and wakes up across the continent? With a scary lady who insults him? Then ol' flame-eyes is here and his eyes aren't flame anymore and Mat is just so exhausted and tired and he takes this tea that gets REAL trippy and depressing and tells him that he's destined to be awful forever. And then he's locked up alone in a room. And then... Padan Fain shows up???? With the dagger from Shadar Logoth?????
The one Mat is destined to kill Rand with?
Like... he has been having a time of it.
26. Oof, hard to watch Nynaeve torturing Seta. I understand why Elayne needs to keep looking away. Nynaeve wants so badly to find Egwene and save her. We actually get a lot of ruthlessness from the ladies in this episode -- Nynaeve with Seta; Egwene and Renna; and Moiraine's willingness to "kill a thousand innocents if there's even a chance [Rand] will live". But I think the show did a good job of showing you why each of these characters is driven to be so ruthless at this moment in time.
27. Rand confirms with his own eyes that Egwene is here in Falme, as he sees her and the other damane being led out of the kennels. And he sees the gag in her mouth -- I wonder if part of the reason for that part of the costuming was to make it easy for Rand to see from far away part of the indignities that are being forced on Egwene (obviously, he also saw what horrible conditions she was enduring in her cell back when Lanfear showed him Egwene, but now he knows for certain that what Lanfear was showing him was true).
28. Mat and Fain's conversation with Fain here is interesting because I think Mat is figuring it out -- so many people keep telling him over and over that he's destined to do the stupid thing; that he's worthless; that he's going to be like his dad; that he abandons his friends. Padan Fain is saying the exact same thing that Liandrin was saying (you abandoned your friends for the dagger). Having his old peddler from back home showing up to say the same things that the Aes Sedai who had kept him captive for months had said... that's kinda suspicious, bro. That kinda seems like someone else is supplying the script, bro. Because Mat is not in the same kind of despair here when he's listening to Fain as he was when he was listening to Liandrin. He's paying attention to who the messenger is (and who sent the messenger), not just the message itself.
The first time through watching this scene, it can feel like Mat is trying to convince himself when he smiles at Fain and tells him that he's not going to touch the dagger. But... he doesn't touch it. Instead, he inspects the room and comes up with a plan to escape that doesn't involve touching the dagger. It wasn't just bravado, when he was talking to Fain. He meant it. All these people, they keep telling Mat that they know him better than he knows himself. That they are the ones who really know his inner darkness. That they can guess what he's going to do next.
And Mat... he decides right here, I think, that he is going to prove them wrong. Maybe he WAS always terrible in his past lives? Well, then he'll fucking do better in this one. He makes the decision to do better BEFORE he learns that his past lives weren't rotten, and I think that's so important.
29. Moiraine and Lan's scene here is very sweet. I think this was a really sweet capstone to Lan's journey through the season and an affirmation of Moiraine trusting and allowing Lan and Rand to help her at the end of the last episode. Though the main culmination of the "alone we are vulnerable, together we are a shieldwall" comes in the fight against Ishamael, Moiraine has been very much a parallel with Rand this season in how she's been pushing people away so that she can face the danger alone, so her literally allowing Lan to share in her burden is a lovely little illustration of that same point. Plus the weaves and music here are just gorgeous. I really do love the intimacy here, between a man and woman who are fundamentally connected but not in a sexual or romantic way.
Meanwhile, Lan's journey goes back to a similar point as Mat's, I think, in that he accepts the idea that Moiraine views him as inferior and says he wants to help her anyway, before he gets rewarded with learning that she sees him not as an equal but as better than her. "Okay, what if this horrible thing, this thing that I don't want to believe could be true... what if it IS true and then I keep on doing the right thing anyway?"
Though I've never had the issue with Lan's storyline that I feel like I've seen some other book readers have. The only time his story felt 'slow' to me was through my first watch of 2x4 and even that changed when I did my rewatch and saw how much we were getting told about Alanna & her Warders and how it was leading up to Alanna getting folded into all the big plans. But, yeah, my main interest in Lan was never how many enemies he could kill per minute and the show has made him a much more interesting character to me than the books did.
30. I suspect all this 'getting the Horn' stuff might have been expanded on if we'd gotten ten episodes but there's enough information there to make it clear that Lanfear (as 'Selene') gave them the Horn so that her future devoted husband Rand would get his special toy before he fought Ishamael. Heists can be fun but we did get the info a couple of episodes ago that the Horn was barely being guarded, so that also tracks with it being easy for a 'slave' and a 'guard' to be able to sneak in and grab it.
...the Seanchan uniform actually looks really hot on Ingtar.
31. Perrin finds out here that Egwene is in Falme, and he instantly pivots to that information -- Egwene has been captured by the Seanchan; we have to help Egwene. We know that Perrin has been worried that all of them being isolated away from each other makes them vulnerable and here is proof! Obviously, if Egwene is here, then she has to be the priority over the Horn.
"The Horn of Valere summons the dead heroes of the past. It's the key to the Dragon winning the Last Battle."
Yeah, the show was very clear about what the Horn does. Even if you miss Ingtar's line on an initial watch, a rewatch would instantly clear it up (especially with the knowledge of what it does when Mat uses it). The fascinating thing is that Ingtar NEVER SAYS that the Dragon needs to use it, but that's clearly what Perrin assumes (and a lot of show-only reactors assumed it too, and were surprised by Mat being able to use it).
I like Loial's little speech. He shames Ingtar right out of his determination to leave the city with the Horn.
32. The way that Renna and Egwene's power struggle comes to a head in this episode was really effective I think.
We see Egwene not being able to bring herself to attack until she sees the Whitecloaks, and she takes care to place her fireball where it will only hit Whitecloaks and not any cilivians.
33. I have to admit, the view that certain book fans have that Rand did nothing in this episode are baffling (Nynaeve didn't do 'nothing' either, but both she and Rand ARE going to, I'm sure, seek ways in the new season to do more because they were both clearly frustrated by being 'blocked' from what they wanted to do). Rand did less than he wanted to do, because he got shielded -- motivation for him to want to search out some training next season, because there were several moments this season when his lack of training has been pointed out! -- but in both the Turak scene and the Ishamael scene, Rand ends the fight almost effortlessly (once he's free to do so, in the Ishy scene).
Turak and his guards stood literally no chance against Rand -- he raised his chin and looked, and over a dozen people died (but only the ones with weapons, not the Voice who wasn't a threat). I'm sorry, that is power. The idea that Rand indulging in a sword fight would have shown more power than what he actually did is ridiculous. He would have been a cat playing with a mouse instead of just killing it (and every show-only reactor that I've watched so far has had a BIG reaction to Rand doing this).
We've been shown throughout this season with the Forsaken that the less effort channeling takes and the more casual that you are with it, the more powerful you are. And that's exactly what Rand shows in this scene. Not only does he create and send the projectiles, they are precisely aimed to only target combatants.
Which means that Rand gets to see another aspect of Seanchan culture here -- the main slaves of a High Lord kills themselves when their lord dies. It really does show how deeply the brainwashing goes in Seanchan culture. And you can see that Rand is disturbed by the violence that he just did, but he has to move on, so he does.
34. I really do love how Josha embodies the physicality of Rand's channeling. He does move to channel but it feels very natural, like an extension of himself. It was that way in s1 as well. Rand channeling just... idk it hits different for me than any of the other channelers we've seen, as beautiful as the weaves can be.
35. "The Forsaken fought amongst themselves as much as they fought the Dragon," feels like a very important note for s3 -- the six Forsaken that Ishamael released are not going to be going after Rand together. Just as Lanfear ended up undermining Ishamael's plans, with the goal of killing him, getting rid of the other Forsaken, and living happily ever after with Lews Therin Rand, the other Forsaken will each have their own agenda too. So it's not complete doom and despair that they've all been released.
36. So even as Lanfear is making plans to dump the rest of the 'Chosen' in the ocean, Ishamael is busy at work releasing each of them, one by one. We learn here that Lanfear has been manipulating events in Moiraine's storyline from the very beginning of the season.
Ishamael brushing the dust of the remaining seals from his hands as he talks to Suroth: a+, lol. But to make matters even worse for him, he learns here that Turak is dead and the Horn has been stolen. And everything was looking so rosy for him before Lanfear showed up!
Ishamael's "shit, Lanfear betrayed us" back-up plans:
step 1: free the rest of the Chosen
step 2: get Rand shielded ASAP
step 3: Maybe seeing Mat and Egwene in dire straits will be enough to turn Rand to the Shadow? (it's confirmed here that Ishamael made sure to have Egwene ordered to the tower where "the whole city can see her")
*fails*
step 4: okay, we'll gentle him and then work on breaking him once he's less dangerous
*fails*
step 5: maybe I just kill him?
*fails*
step 6: well, guess I'll die. At least I screwed over Lanfear on my way out. The rest of the Forsaken will have to handle things from now on.
37. I love Mat working out a way to use the dagger without touching it. Also it kinda cracks me up that he ties the dangerous thing to a bedpost because... um... Lanfear tied Rand to a... I think that's maybe only funny to me. lol
We see here that Mat understands how the dagger works, probably a lot better than Ishamael did or Fain does. It nearly killed him last season! He's aware of how dangerous it is... but also how useful it can potentially be at the moment.
And I love that Rand's stubborn 'ACTUALLY, Mat is amazing and one of the best people who has ever lived, so jot that down' attitude from 1x7 gets proven correct here. Rand knew Mat better than anyone else, from what we saw at various points in s1, and now his certainty that Mat Is Good, Actually gets to be proven (including, very importantly, Mat himself... until the Accidental Stabbening gives Mat a brand-new guilt complex).
38. We can see here that the fireballs coming down from the damane in the tower are hitting ordinary citizens as well as the Whitecloaks -- not everyone is being as careful as Egwene.
She sees it too -- that's what makes her spit out her gag and refuse to help anymore. And this moment (among some others) really sells why this addition to the costuming works because Egwene actively and literally reclaims her voice here.
And the Whitecloaks attack on the tower work, killing many of the damane and sul'dam at the top of the tower.
39. While earlier, we saw that some of the Whitecloaks were helping pull civilians out of the way, once again, not everyone on their side is being that careful -- the Whitecloak archers shoot Seta, dressed as a damane, but they also shoot Elayne, dressed as an ordinary citizen. Both the Seanchan and the Whitecloaks are causing innocent people to get caught in between them and die.
And I do think it's clear here that Nynaeve is overwhelmed and scared, not angry. That's why she isn't able to reach the power. Her block is now officially a problem for her, one that she has a very good reason to try to get it fixed next season. This is a similar lesson to what they've been showing us in Rand's storyline: raw power isn't enough. You also need control, or other people will be able to control you.
40. And that ties into what Egwene does too -- both Mat and Egwene think outside the box in order to find clever solutions to their problems in this episode and not be limited to what their captors thinks they're capable of. They both choose an unlisted option.
She seizes control over herself and her situation, because she understands her power now. Egwene, Mat, and Moiraine all reclaim themselves after having gone through a long, rough period of being put in a situation where they feel inadequate and broken down.
And Egwene figured it out by being clever and putting together the information. We also get more confirmation here that only channelers can see weaves.
41. Reunions! Mat and Perrin's reunion here is very sweet. It's also much more straightforward than the more complex and fraught (though just as sweet) relationship between Mat and Rand. Perrin and Mat share a good long hug! Mat holds his shoulder for a moment! But when the hugging is gone, they pull away from each other and don't constantly stay all over each other like Rand and Mat were in their initial reunion scene in 2x6 (or like Rand and Mat will do in their upcoming scene, post-stabbening). So I love that we see that Mat and Perrin are very good friends and they love each other and... and it's not quite the same as Mat's friendship with Rand.
42. Poor Egwene really is so burnt out, emotionally, by her experiences and so traumatized, and we can really see how exhausted she is by everything that happened. She needs some real processing time.
I'm glad that we got Rand's apology to Egwene here, even if I think she's maybe only half-processing it at the moment.
43. I love how quickly Mat gives out the info of "Rand is alive, he's here, he's headed to help Egwene" to Perrin here. And that he takes another dig at Rand's hair, lol. When Rand regrows his hair, Mat gets the credit for it, lol. I also miss Rand's curls, Mat! You are not alone!
44. Ishamael is talking here like he's knows that it's over. He does not expect his appeal to Rand here to work -- like he told Lanfear, it's too soon. Egwene isn't broken. Mat isn't broken. He doesn't even HAVE Nynaeve or Perrin in hand. "Maybe next time it'll be different," Ishamael says, because he already knows that his primary goal of turning the Dragon to the Dark has failed.
I love the echoes of this scene to the one from the cold-open.
45. "You're his only hope" vs "betrayer of hope". I talked about this in one of my earlier posts I think, but the contrast still hits me hard.
Here we have Ishamael, blaming Lews Therin for his fall to the dark (and the stories say that it was LTT's 'fault' that Lanfear turned to), but it wasn't LTT's fault. It was Ishamael's choice. And it's Mat's choices that make him different from Ishamael.
But, yeah, this is another of those things that just gets extra weight to Mat and Rand's friendship vs Mat and Perrin's or Rand and Perrin's.
46. Dain and Perrin meet on the battlefield and get to fight back-to-back for a moment. I think everything with Perrin & the Whitecloaks & Hopper is well-done, but it's tough to talk about. Hopper does get a lovely send-off, as he see him leaping the way that he did when he told Perrin his name. Also, the tension between Dain and Perrin the next time they see each other (narratively, they have to see each other again, with all this set-up) is going to be fantastic.
Hopper's last sending to Perrin is so beautiful. And it's so easy to understand Perrin's rage here, just as it was easy to understand Egwene's need to kill Renna.
47. I like how Elayne (in agony!) is doing her best to help Nynaeve get to a place where she can help Elayne. She really takes charge of the situation and is able to bring a level of calm to it, even when she's under significant distress herself.
Nynaeve is trying so hard to channel here and she can't even embrace the Source. I do think that her 'block' probably got some reinforcement when her most recent use of the Power directly led to Ryma's capture.
(speaking of Ryma, since we don't see her in the tower or on the ships, it's entirely possible that, as a brand-new damane, she was still in the kennels and can get freed after the battle here is done; I would like that for her very much and - if they do decide to have the Wondergirls go back to the White Tower, Ryma could be the one to take them there, as she delivers the news about the Seanchan. That's one of the few reasons that I can see for the Wondergirls to think it will be safe for them to go back to Tar Valon, after they hear Moiraine's news, tbh)
But, yeah, I'm glad that Nynaeve can't just Bruce Banner "I'm always angry" at her problems. That her block is now something that is causing her distress in times when she desperately needs to be able to channel.
48. Mat blowing the Horn is such a beautiful moment. Time slowing and the music changing and the effects of how the Heroes appear. This is a moment of intense despair for everyone and Mat blowing the Horn here turns everything around. I think they did a really good job in making this the turning point of the episode. Mat blowing the Horn did bring back the hope of winning. It didn't win the battle, but it gave back hope. Instead of Mat being ~just like~ Ishamael, he is instead Ishamael's opposite. Instead of betraying hope, he creates it.
And it's such a joyous moment. Mat gets to have his self-worth affirmed by an outside source, gets to feel connected to something bigger than himself, after feeling alone for most of the season. It's really beautiful.
Just... gorgeous. And when Mat remembers and is able to get that validation that he is not destined to be a 'damn prick', just like his father, that he isn't rotten to his core... witnessing him going through that moment is so lovely. Cannot say enough good things about it, A+ television.
49. We also see that, after Mat says that he 'remembers', that he's handling his weapon differently, more familiarly, and he can now speak the Old Tongue. So we can see the impact that remembering his past lives has on him.
And, of course, we see here that Uno is one of the Heroes of the Horn! It's a nice hint to viewers who maybe weren't listening to Ingtar earlier that the Horn brings back the dead. Because we definitely all saw Uno die.
50. And, of course, being magically-fast ghost warriors, the Heroes absolutely can make sure that they only target active combatants and that no civilians get caught in the cross-fire.
Uno saving Perrin. <3 And then lending him a magic shield! Useful! I'm guessing it probably also fades away after the Heroes do.
And once the arrow is out of Elayne's leg, everyone is on their way to the tower.
51. Rand is able to push himself to his feet, despite the effects of the shield on him, and tell Ishamael, point-blank, "I will never serve him. In a thousand lives, I never have. I'm sure of it."
Ishamael knows that his main plan is a bust. It's only back-up plans and failsafes from here on out.
52. Mat's throw is a really good throw! Unfortunately, Ishamael is a trickster too, and it goes right through the illusion of him. This moment is incredibly traumatizing for Mat who only literally just now regained his sense of self-worth -- while we are going to end up with our heroes triumphing over Ishamael and the Seanchan and saving Falme... they all end up damaged and traumatized by it.
Mat just clutching onto Rand here in the wake of accidentally stabbing him. Oh, wow, it really gets to me. And Rand's anger is 100% (and very appropriately and accurately) focused on Ishamael.
And Ishamael is so distracted by this moment that he doesn't realize that Egwene has gotten up from where he threw her.
53. I love how delicate Elayne's healing weave is. And the wound left behind looks very nasty. And Rand getting healed by Elayne and then seeing the sun shining in her hair. What a way to be introduced to someone for the first time! They save your life like that and are literally wreathed in sunlight.
54. Moiraine and Lan getting on the same (ruthless) page when it comes to supporting Rand/the Dragon. And we get to really see Lan let loose with his fighting as Moiraine lets loose with her channeling.
55. I was honestly a little nervous about the idea of them actually doing a sky battle because I could not possibly picture how that would not be cheesy. I trusted the show's team but... I was nervous. What the show did was not at all cheesy. It was heartfelt and epic, but not cheesy.
I love how everyone works together to make it work. The team did such a good job of playing out this theme of having the characters be isolated and showing how that made them vulnerable, and then rewarding us with this beautiful coming together. They can be there for each other and protect each other.
And I'm confused about anyone feeling like this takes away from Rand because... they all contribute so that Rand can strike the final blow -- because Rand is the only one who could have done that part. Moiraine freed Rand from his shield and Elayne healed him, Egwene and Perrin were able to block Ishamael's attacks, but Rand absorbed Ishamael's attacks into his own weave to strengthen it, and then he wove the One Power directly into his sword and we can see the results -- instead of getting back up again, Ishamael crumbled to dust.
Ishamael himself was aware that he had lost as soon as Rand was unshielded, imo. He makes another attack after that, but it's clear that he knows that he lost. There's a reason that Ishamael's first big move in the scene with Rand is to get him shielded by the damane. That's the only way he even has a chance in this fight and he knows it. Egwene isn't able to go on the offense against, Ishamael in any way and we can see what a toll it's taking on her to hold up her shield against him - holes develop in her shield before Perrin shows up.
Minor Cauthor note: I love how after Rand gets rocked by being unshielded and he realizes that Mat got pulled away from Mat, he grabs Mat's hand again. Cute, even in the middle of a pitched battle.
56. Our poor traumatized babies! Let's count up the trauma:
a. Rand felt shielded and helpless for much of the fight and now has a wound in his side that Elayne wasn't quite able to heal. He's also very aware that his lack of training is causing big problems. And he's got a heron brand on his hand now.
b. Egwene is deeply traumatized from her time as a slave.
c. Nynaeve spent this entire battle feeling helpless and her only contribution was bringing Elayne here so that Elayne could heal Rand. Nynaeve may even blame herself for the state Rand's wound has been left in, wondering if she could have healed him fully if she'd had access to the Power.
d. Perrin just lost his new wolf BFF in a traumatic way.
e. Mat stabbed his best friend with an evil dagger (after spending months being psychologically tortured).
f. Elayne has a pretty nasty leg injury. Also, she has to be the most confused person here, by a mile. She likely knows about the prophecies and the Dragon Reborn as general concepts but had absolutely no clue that she was accidentally stumbling into the middle of them. She's gonna have so many questions.
57. But this whole section really is beautiful. Just... I love the fire-illusion dragon so much. Moiraine is always So Extra, all the time.
58. This is the first time any of them have seen Rand channel! Even though they can't see the weaves, they can see Rand walking through Ishamael's attacks without flinching, they can see his sword glowing red, and Ishamael turning to dust. And they heard Ishamael call him "Lews", probably.
It's also another incredibly intimate stabbing, though in a different way than Mat 'stabbing' Rand was. He looks directly into Ishamael's eyes the entire time and, afterwards, he stays focused on Ishamael until he's turned to dust.
59. Yeah, Falme looks pretty all-in on the Dragon Reborn. He saved them from the Seanchan and (given what the dude in Atuan's Mill said) he also saved them from the Whitecloaks. At their greatest hour of need, the Dragon really did come to save them. We also get the confirmation here that these Aiel Maidens, at least, believe that Rand is the Car'a'carn that they've been searching for.
60. At this point in time, Lanfear is feeling pretty damn happy with herself. Step one of her plan was a complete success! Ishamael has been taken care of. Lews Therin Rand has been publicly proclaimed the Dragon! Her happy ending is within her grasp!
Then, as Lanfear is basking in her victory... she discovers that Ishamael took action when he realized she was betraying him. We meet "softly, softly from the shadows" Moghedien and see her stand toe-to-toe with Lanfear. All of the Forsaken are now loose.
Love the vibe they've given to Moghedien.
We can see here that those conflicts that Moiraine talked about between the Forsaken are clear and present. Lanfear and Moghedien are definitely not on the same page when it comes with how to deal with the Dragon.
Moghedien says that "him" and "all five of them" are now the other Forsaken's business and that Lanfear is to stay away from Rand in particular.
And she vanishes before Lanfear is set free and our last words of the season are Lanfear saying, "Light help you, Rand al'Thor."
Interesting in two ways! Acknowledgement of him as Rand, not Lews Therin, and calling upon the Light to aid him. I feel like it does a good job of setting up some very clear issues for the next season.
Hope we have a shorter wait this time!
#butterfly watches wot#wot#wheel of time#wot on prime#wot show spoilers#wot prime spoilers#wot s2 spoilers#wheel of time s2 spoilers#wot 2x8 spoilers
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So my other obsession of the month is wheel of time and I saw episode 7 and boy o BOY do I have major thoughts and I need to get them out.
Siuan?? What the hell? Following LONG ass post is in defence of Siuan because the general consensus there is right now about Siuan just doesn't rhyme for me.
ONE thing all of Siuan actions did, it brought out SO MUCH .
Liandrin drew out 1 dark friend (Moiraines nephew) and he consequently got locked away (or killed).
One Forsaken showed herself to an entire city, no more hiding or denying (at least not from the Aes Sedai because there were like 14(!) there)
Siuan clearly has doubts about Verin and Verin acted exactly as expected (now I think Verin has a lot more going on but hey 🤷🏼♀️)
When Siuan shields Rand, she pushes Moiraine to say all of her intentions with Rand and their decades build plans in front off Rand as if he is not there. Which Moiraine does to protect Rand from Siuan.
Siuan asks Rand if he has channelled carefully and deliberately (not verbatim but this is the general idea), which he hasn't. She scolds him for it and says that he hasn't learned much in 6 months, which is absolutely true.
Which leads to:
Moiraine is shielded (something I do not think Lan figured out on his own) and subsequently released of said shield by Rand when she tells Rand that she trusts him. When last season Moiraine very clearly showed that she doesn't. Rand needed to hear that from Moiraine. It pushed Rand to actually use the one power very DELIBERATELY and CAREFULLY otherwise, Moiraine dead. Now who again scolded Rand about that I wonder hmmm 🤔
Which brings me to the following and perhaps most important point:
Rand now 100% trusts Moiraine, he believes Moiraine does want to protect and guide him to save the world, which previously he didnt. He was confused about what was going on and felt like a toy being played from all sides. Siuan put Moiraine in an impossible situation and Moiraine chose Rand, the dragon reborn because she knows that is the right thing to do. Rand needed to be shown Moiriane will give everything to save the world including turning away from Siuan and being made to do something she does not want (closing the gate).
It is VITAL that he does because Moiraine will be the only one capable of providing Rand the protection and guidance that he needs to save the world. He only does at the end of this episode, which is nearly at the end of this season. They already lost too much time. Drastic extreme measures are unfortunately required because Siuan was right, Moiraines way wasn't working.
At the end of this episode due to Siuans actions, he doesn't trust any Aes Sedai, which is good because you know Black Ajah and doesnt trust the Forsaken, but he very clearly does trust Moiraine, and that WILL set him on the right path.
If I can trust book readers, Siuan is a very powerful channeler. However, like Egwene, it's her intelligence that is actually her greatest power. She is a crazy smart woman and nowhere near as impulsive, brash and stubborn as Moiraine, aka Pufferfish.
Something that stuck by me is that Siuan said "you have given everything, Im going to row beside you now". Siuan knows Moiraine will absolutely not let her. Moiraine is like Nyneave in that way. She would rather die than let anyone she loves do that.
Siuan has given up a lot this episode and put power back with Moiraine, leaving herself incredibly vulnerable, having lost her one true ally, Moiraine. Going back to a tower filled with enemies, she's f*cked, and she knows it, but she needs Moiraine focused on her mission, not on Siuans' potential downfall. Because that will definitely be a distraction for Moiraine.
There is no way in hell a Master chess player like Siuan would move her pawns so early and openly like she seems to be doing in this episode. That is not Siuan. Everyone in WOT world, though, needs to believe that she is (including Moiraine).
#siuan sanche#wheel of time show#wheel of time tv series#wheel of time#moiraine damodred#moiraine x siuan#siuraine#siuaraine#siuan x moiraine#all theories of course#but im not buying that this is what she wants#caging rand#working against Moiraine#im not buying it#she is too smart and too commited to not only the shared cause Moiraine and Siuan have but also to Moiraine#there is a reason we saw exactly what we saw from Siuan and Moiraine in the opening#they are committed and they DO want the same way#Moiraine is not only more brash and impulsive but also#STUBBORN#as hell#but i guess we will only see#if my theory is correct next season#which is 2 effing years so ridiculous#anyways#big rant#over
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spoilers for WoT s2 e7
ok so just binged wheel of time season 2 in one night, staying up until 2 am, which I now regret lol. But episode 7 emotional destroyed me, but also left me with a faint glimmer of hope. So here’s my theory/reasoning for why Siuan did what she did:
—when Lan tells Siuan that Moiraine has been stilled, she is shocked. Siuan and Moiraine have been conversing for months and Moiraine has made not one mention of this. Siuan has no idea what to expect when she goes to Moiraine, as all the letters she’s received are now questionable and confusing. She has no idea what to expect while going going to Caihrien so she brings backup. She wants to trust Moiraine but is confused why Moiraine never made one mention of being stilled. Siuan is starting to doubt her trust in Moiraine.
— Siuan arrives in Caihrien and immediately sets up a meeting with Moiraine. In this meeting, Moiraine is cold and distant, unlike how she usually is when alone with Siuan. Siuan questions her but Moiraine doesn’t directly answer and instead throws questions back at Siuan. Siuan keeps trying to appeal to Moiraine’s emotional side but Moiraine never relents. When Siuan puts her hand on Moiraine’s cheek, she is trying one last time to brung Moiraine’s armor down. You can see for a split second, Moiraine leans into the touch but only a second later she pulls away. Moiraine, who usually lets down her guard for Siuan, is just as guarded, if not more, the she is with everyone else.
—now when Siuan goes to meet with Rand, she finds out that Moiraine hasn’t trained him or prepared him at all. She is losing her trust in Moiraine and all their planning is meaningless. All the time and sacrifices they have made seem futile. So Siuan does the one thing she had not tried yet: follow the rules.
—when Moiraine escapes with Rand and Lan, Siuan quickly goes after them, now not knowing who to trust. Her fears seem confirmed when she find Moiraine channeling, just after she found out she was stilled. She believes Moiraine has lied to her, making one of Siuan’s worst fears seem confirmed: Moiraine has betrayed her and turned to the dark. Siuan wants to believe in Moiraine but she can find no other meaning for what had happened. The only way for Moiraine to have lied to her is to break one of the oaths, a feat that can only be accomplished after turning to the dark. Moiraine tells Siuan that she has not lied to her, but now Siuan has no idea what to believe. The door has opened and Moiraine is taking Rand with her. So Siuan does the only available option left to her, force the oaths. This will make either one of two things happen, one: the oaths will work, closing the door while also proving that Moiraine hasn’t turned to the dark, or they won’t work proving that Moiraine has turned to the dark. Siuan activities the oaths and they work. You can see a slight look of relief in Siuan’s face when the oaths work
-- and now Lanfear arrived. Siuan tries to fight but Lanfear is too strong. Lanfear opens the doorway and is angered when she sees Moiraine with Rand. You can see that Siuan is not totally unconscious when she is knocked down, she sees Lanfear go up to attack Moiraine but Rand protects her. This is again proving that Moiraine is not sided with the forsaken. Rand and Lanfear go through the doorway and Moiraine is caught between Siuan and Lan. Lan is asking her to follow them, but Moiraine has paused and is staring at Siuan. Siuan murmurs one last thing before she finally goes unconscious, “Moiraine please”
this could be interrupted in many ways. It could be Siuan telling Moiraine to stay and help her, or it could be to tell her to follow Rand. Moiraine eventually makes the decision to go after Rand but just as she walks into the doorway, she looks back and locks eyes with Siuan.
there are many things exchanged in this one second. It is letting Siuan know that Moiraine loves her and she doesn’t want to leave her behind. It is a promise that they will see each other again.
you can see a slight smile on Siuan’s face as she falls unconscious, despite all the events that have occurred, she trusts Moiraine.
#wheel of time spoilers#wheel of time#moiraine damodred#siuan sanche#siuanraine#fishwives#moiraine x siuan#analysis#s2 e7
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reddit:
literally every other WOT viewer in the world:
#they've been saying this ever since the finale aired and it drives me CRAZY#have your personal opinions all you want but to say that 2x08 was objectively a weak episode is simply not correct#cinematography acting vfx choreography music EVERYTHING was at the absolute top of its game#and despite being an Exciting Battle Episode it was completely anchored in character moments & emotional resonance which is no easy feat#so much going on yet there was time for every major character to get a huge developmental/emotional beat#(yes even those like nynaeve whose beat was a loss rather than a victory)#every season arc was either wrapped up in an immensely satisfying way or was set up for a deeper examination next season#and 90% of the general audience absolutely loved it#and yet reddit acts like it's an Accepted Fact that it was poor quality#just bc the book-to-show changes in that episode weren't to THEIR PERSONAL taste#touch grass#wot#seeing as season finales will always have the biggest moments it's kinda inevitable that hardcore book fans#will always be the most sensitive to any changes made in those particular episodes#not to mention that the changes made in eps 1-7 will snowball and culminate in the finale#so i feel like finales are always gonna be judged the most harshly by readers#like if dumai's wells isn't an exact 1:1 recreation of the book version#readers are 1000000% going to flip their shit no matter how objectively good the show's version actually is#wot book spoilers#for the replies
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Since it's my birthday my friends got me the amazing gift of 'watching the Wheel of Time show while occasionally stopping to discuss/let me loose my mind' for which I am incredibly grateful. A few random observations from this time through, as I attempted to view it through the lens of the entirely WoT uninitiated (as my friends are)-
The group shots, where the camera passes from one of the Emond's Field 5 to another, do this clever trick where Rand is never actually standing on his own. He's always standing beside or behind someone in one of these shots, so the camera doesn't actually have to cut or pan away from someone else to get to him. This serves the purpose of highlighting him in contrast to his friends, but also to subtlety downplay his presence to the audience, and build up to the Dragon reveal in episode 7 very effectively.
The cinematography in general is so exceedingly rich and delicious- the stark white of the Whitecloak camp contrasted with the bloody reality of their actions. The bright primary colors used to make the Aes Sedai visually pop and feel magical and strange, even as they are dressed (for the most part) practically for their traveling (a complaint I had about the Witcher, aside from everything being brown and grey all the time, is that the mages show up to battles dressed in ballroom dresses instead of you know, clothing that would make sense). The subtle use of lighting and camera angle to create a sense of vast isolation of Shadar Logoth, fear and danger in the Ways, and cramp sweltering heat in the Blight.
Moiraine's opening narration in episode 1 is essentially a summary of the information we get from one of the epigraphs at the ending of the Eye of the World prologue, to whit:
"And the Shadow fell upon the land, and the world was riven, stone from stone. The oceans fled and the mountains where swallowed up. and the nations where scattered to the eight corners of the world. The moon was blood and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the shadow, and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon." - Aleth nin Tearin alta Camora, The Breaking of the World, author unknown, the Fourth Age
"The world is broken. Many many years ago men who where born with great power attempted to cage darkness itself. The arrogance. When they failed, the seas boiled, mountains where swallowed up, cities burned, and the women of the Aes Sedai where left to pick up the pieces. These women remembered one thing above all else, the man who brought the Breaking of the World. And him, they. named Dragon." - Moiraine
This makes me suspect their was an earlier version of the script that actually used the epigraph (maybe even both of them). I have mixed on feeling on this, as the epigraphs are one of my favorite artistic choices of Jordan's and really help emphasize the history and depth of his world, but I think filtering it through Moiriane and making it slightly less opaque was a smart choice to convey the information to the audience. I also think this works on a character level as well- here is Moiraine's understanding of this information, shaped by her biases.
Every re-watch also makes me more and more comfortable in my 'the show is a future/past turning of the wheel from the books, the broad events and truths being the same, but seen in one of those endless variations we hear about' interpretation of the series. The heart of the story and characters is the same, and the broad strokes and framework are the same, but it's in the details where things emerge as different. This interpretation has the benefit of fitting really really well with the meta-narrative stuff Jordan always liked to pull, and in freeing I think the show expectations of being a one-to-one recreation.
That said I defiantly felt the cracks in the final two episodes as a result of the Covid shutter and loosing Barney Harris more strongly this time- some of that being that this is my first re watching of season 1 since I've seen season 2. You can practically see the things they wanted/planned to do that had to re-worked because of circumstances beyond their control. Mat's absence in the group argument scene (and the 'I am so tired of you two fighting over her' line that was clearly meant to be Mat's), as well as the lack of bigger/more cohesive battle scene in Tarwin's Gap. You can also tell they hadn't quite figured out how they where going to re-work season 2 yet given that the ending for season 1 had to be changed last minute (for example, their is no reason for Moiraine to just outright admit that she released Lan's bond unless they hadn't yet decided that was where their arc was going yet).
I think the show does an exceedingly good job of structuring it's exposition to the un-intiatited, trying to stagger it so that audience is largely learning new things in pace with the characters. I know people where frustrated that things like the War of Power have yet to come up in earnest even in the Latra and Lews scene, but I think the slow and steady reveal of things matches both the core idea of 'their is always more you don't know', and trying not to overwhelm the audience. My friends had no trouble following what was going and picking up the bigger implications/subtext that underpins a lot of information. 'But why did the Dragon try to cage the Dark One? It doesn't seem like it was that simple.' came up a few times especially.
The detail that what jump-starts Perrin's wolf brother connection is having his wound healed/cleaned by the wolves in that scene from episode 2 is so incredibly clever, and a good twist on the traditional 'werewolf bite' mythology.
I love the deliberate choice to incorporate so many random ruins and remnants of things in the background of shots. Not just the 'dilapidated stone buildings' that the characters camp in, but things like the trio of carved faces that Egwene and Perrin run past while fleeing the Whitecloaks, or the boundary stones Mat and Rand pass on the road, or even just the small carvings and pillars scattered about the cave where they are holding Logain. It all helps to make you feel that ancientness, that brokenness of this world more effectively.
The reoccurring use of the Dragon's Fang to symbolize violence and destruction: the Trollocs using it as a scare tactics, it appearing in the blood in the pool after Nynaeve kills the Trolloc, being burned into Siuan's ruined childhood home....and the way that contrasts with it's use in the finale episode, when we see it whole and unbroken in the seal/yin yang symbol for the first time was really really clever. One of my friends actually gasped out loud and went 'oh' at the first shot of the whole seal when it clicked.
The show does an exceedingly good job of maintaining that core idea of the series that it's about our relationship to violence- violence never being casual or simple or easy, but always raw, hard and bloody and a little bit ugly. EVen subtle things like the way the show depicts Moraine hurling stones at the Trollocs with uncomfortable frankness, trying to literalize what in most fantasy media would be an abstract. Take it from I cast stone 2, to I inflict horrible blunt force trauma on another creature. And of course everything re: Perrin and his ax.
I have more thoughts, but I think I'll save some of them for after we watch season 1, because they relate strongly to stuff from there.
#WoT#Wheel of Time#Wot On PRime#Wheel of Time on Prime#WoT s1#WoT Meta#Wheel of time Meta#WoT Musing#Rand al'Thor#Moiraine Damodred#Perrin Aybara#Egwene al'Vere
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Ok reminder for the Wheel of Time season 2 premiere
I will be live-blogging when the episodes drop at 7 pm CST on Thursdays. I will use the following tags so you can black list as needed:
- “wot book spoilers” for any posts that references spoilers from the books that hasn’t played out on screen yet (yes for the entire series im not tagging book by book sorry)
- “wot on prime” for anything that is about the show specifically, even things not necessarily considered spoilers
- “wot show spoilers” for anything that occurred in the latest episode specifically (I’ll use these for a few days at least depending on how major the spoiler is)
- “wot liveblog” for my reactions while watching
- “wheel of time” for just any and all Wheel of Time content
If I miss a tag feel free to point it out but don’t complain if you saw something I posted and didn’t blacklist.
Also this was a problem last season, so just please remember to be aware that all of the posts in the tags are not from book readers and I might reblog some of those posts. Last season I had to threaten to start blocking people if they didn’t stop spoiling show fans i reblogged so like be fucking aware please I wanna be able to interact with people without feeling bad about it
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At the very end of the recent Judge John Hodgeman podcast episode Criminal Elm-ement he mentions wanting fantasy-themed disputes to adjudicate. An example given was
“Which is the wildest Wheel of Time? (Never read any of those.)”
So not only is this is a perfect chance to hash out your beef with me on a podcast (I’m kidding please don’t do this unless we’re mutuals and then let’s talk) I also now need to know which is the wildest WoT book.
To make it fit in a Tumblr poll, I am sticking to the original Jordan books 1-11 and also merging books 10 and 11 because it makes the most sense narratively to smash them together.
#wheel of time#judge john hodgeman#poll#fyi all cursed Ogier facts are in book 11#I am undecided tho so please defend your choices
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of course i have things to say about lim life and bdubs. you know its funny and great- of course i would love his pov. but i still feel satisfied by what i saw and i dont feel like i do. there is something very different about witnessing a player this way, something we really havent had at all. and of everyone its bdubs. the guy who is associated with time and the guy who acts out so well to the narrative in front of him. and we dont lose anything- bdubs is still bdubs.
after double life we see him team up with people he hadnt from LL-DL. something fresh. together they create a family themed around time and at the center of the map they make a clock tower. they watch every death that spawns for entertainment. regardless of his need to stay with the clockers he continuously shows attachment to TIES/etho (mostly etho). it may be in jest but the clockers point out numerous times that this behavior doesnt shock them, that of course hes like that with etho and of course its muddying his alliances. and lets not forget the grudges held by most members of TIES (eventually Skizz on the list for a bit due to killing him), a neat detail in this funny little situation.
and then for a good whole episode it does make a problem- in the sense it confuses him and everyone else as to where he lies. he later defends the hell out of etho even from the meta jokes of being washed up, later in game of putting himself in front of a group that wants to kill etho, again in offer his life that etho doesnt take. we dont get to hear his thought process, whatever commentary he may be giving about why he really wanted to be with etho again and why he struggled to make it happen. we see it through everyone else. cleo, who is amused at bdubs' very typical behavior but evermore trying to convince him to not go wot etho. etho, who gets glimpses at bdubs from afar and a few moments where they meet in private, having a connection only two close friends could have alone. the rest of TIES who takes him in in brief moments but never hearing more. overall in the end hes around and hes trying to do good, hes "trying his heart out", theres attempts being made but we can see them slip and falter from things outside of his control. the timing is never right.
but no im not done actually. his attempt to help isnt just tied to etho. bdubs has shown himself to be caring and kind, and putting himself out there in order to help others. i think thats where he fell apart- he wanted to keep it all good between clockers and TIES, despite the family dynamic putting in stone that it wasnt possible. as a whole he wanted to be in the middle and this extended to many other interactions. there wasnt a single person that bdubs was actively against this season (yes including skizz- their dynamic was on the same level after he first fight so it became mutual imo), no long building hate, and the clockers were welcoming to others too in their alliances but bdubs did still stand out as the clockers denied TIES and he held on to them. further in we get to the moments where bdubs then offers himself up. its like there was a realization on the game in episode 7, they were far enough in that he thought maybe he could help just before it got worse. he went up to jimmy who's known to die first (yet someone he hardly interacted with) and desperately and repeatedly asks to be killed and of course jimmy takes it, hes only a few minutes away. and then of course he tries again with etho, twice, including helping a fight and etho doesnt take it. you can hear bdubs in the background still laying out what etho could do.
as the season reaches its end let me wind back a bit to deaths in general. bdubs earliest death was certainly an interesting one, one fight he was so confident about and completely failed at, missing numerous hits. and this isnt a surprise to me. bdubs was actually pretty.... well he lacked a lot of kills this season. and not knowing his time for sure through the episodes made this all more interesting to watch, you know? he never seemed like he was really seeking it out. even in a stream before session 8 scar and grian both say they have no clue what bdubs' time is. im sure someone added this up but for everyone else and the average watcher, we see him fumbling or giving his time all while not thinking at all about what he had left just before the end. and then hes the first one to go out in episode 8. its not that it wasnt expected, but his time being in the dark for so much of the series leaves you not thinking about it. it didnt seem like he died that much, it didnt seem like his timer was that now- you wouldnt know for sure unless you saw his pov. most of all, we never really hear him asking for time? there arent any key moments with him saying he really needs to kill. hes fighting, hes helping, but theres barely a hint of desperation to hunt people down- he just stayed in the place he usually was, around the tower, hoping to lend a hand.
and death again. how does his series end? unexpected, completely unknowing to what would kill him. impulse had killed him once earlier and tried to a second time and the cute thing about it? they were laughing the whole time. this could be the moment where youd say impulse got the kill he wanted. and then we get to bdubs' perma death and its impulse again and he never saw it coming- out of the game first that session and left to spectate everyone until the next start to die. quietly until he gets in the chat.. not unlike LL, but not for nearly as long.
and of course, so much of his time is spent in around the clock tower. this led to all of the clocker's demise, with ow dangerous of a location it became, and its all the more in character for each of them to go out there. theres of course something poetic to take from that.
so what does bdubs give us this season? why does it still mean something despite his pov? well it can mean whatever you want it to mean, it can add up to whatever narrative you took from limited life. i dont know if we will know for sure why bdubs didnt upload outside of what he loosely stated on stream. but forever hes someone i look to for an act that has so much to take from it. intentional or not hes putting something in i never see from anyone else. there doesnt need to even be an artistic reason for his choice to not post but his choices always add up to something and i do think he goes out there knowing full well what he can do. he played a type only he can play, because its inherently just who he is and he will never stop being him and that is so great. ill never doubt his decision no matter if it was purposeful, or personal. bdubs is still bdubs and that is all that i wanted.
#limited life smp#limited life spoilers#trafficblr#bdoubleo100#and guys please this IS a meta analysis on bdubs as a whole#this is about his ever evident and existing personality!#this is about every step we saw on the outside#and what it could mean#what it could be#and how i love him for whatever hes done and i never doubt his choices#if he didnt upload for personal reasons he deserves to do that#if he didnt upload for a specific narrative reason hes all the more allowed to#and looking at what he laid out for us in this circumstance#is something unique and not seen before
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Excited to see Moraine and Siuan back on our screen again 1x06 still lives in my mind rent free 😭
Oooh, yes! I'm so excited but also a little nervous. I'll be going on a two week trip the week after next, without my laptop, so I can watch ep 6, but I won't be able to watch ep 7 or 8 live. I didn't realize when I booked my tickets how it'd work out with WoT, though obviously I wouldn't have scheduled around TV shows anyway (just Pogo Community Days :P) but if there's any significant Siuan/Moiraine in ep 7 or 8 I will be soooo upset. Well, not at there being content, lol, just that I'll miss it.
Nobody spoil me, even now, if you know which ep(s) they're in, and DEFINITELY not when I'm gone! I'll just blacklist everything and catch up when I get back. I'll also miss 4 and 5 of TMS but at least I'll get to watch the Shelter finale. :o
But yesssss, 1x06 is truly one of the best f/f episodes of all time, if not THE best? Maybe there's another that's like, I dunno, a finale or wedding or something, fine, but definitely in the top 5!
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