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esther-dot · 1 year

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BNF will dissect each interaction or thought regarding Sansan to look the underneath meaning behind them. Despite writer is much more clear about their role and show how much Hound abused Sansa. BNF has no problem in shipping Willas and Harry with Sansa. Even when Willas never appear in books or met Sansa. And Harry appear in only one chapter in TWOW still people are expecting him to be Lord of Vale. Yet thinking that Jon and Sansa could be potential couple they feel it's crackship or people shipping them are delusional. Sansa being home safe and queen is absurd to them.

It is very, very amusing which ships are considered canon or noncanon by the fandom, and how, to them, certain things like say, verbal abuse, threats of violence, attempted rape, aren't an issue for a potential romantic relationship, but cousin marriage (in a story in which cousin marriage is unremarkable) is forbidden.

I think perhaps the problem is, we have read the story so differently, we look at the relationships / potential relationships in incompatible ways. For Jonsas, we look at this quote:

Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. "Life is not a song, sweetling," he'd told her. "You may learn that one day to your sorrow." In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound's voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. "Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants." (AGOT, Sansa VI)

and we think Sansa's story isn't that she should listen to the men who abuse and molest her. We think, that despite the horrors she faces, her belief in knights and heroes is already being validated by Jon and Brienne, that it is only a matter of time before her despair, "no one will ever marry me for love" will be answered by someone who does love her.

That conclusion means that men who marry her to rise to power, men who molest her, insult her, attempt to rape her, men who want her to give in and give up, that they can't be the canon romantic pairing Martin has for her, because for one of them to be, is contrary to the story he is writing. The monsters will not win.

Some of us ship Jonsa for funzies and don’t think it was ever going to be canon (books or show), but for others of us, Jonsa is meant to happen to allow Martin to end the sentence he began in AGOT.

There are heroes, there are true knights, Sansa will be loved.

Jon beheaded Slynt, Brienne exists, we've have reason to be optimistic!

As for the rest of it, there are Sansa fans and Jonsas who don't think she will be queen, but calling people delusional for believing she will end up in Winterfell when we have a prophecy about her ending LF there...I don't see the point in denying it. Most of us would be thrilled with KitN Rickon, so you can’t even argue her being queen is wishful thinking on our part. It isn’t necessarily anyone’s dream ending, it’s just the ending some of us think Martin is heading towards. 🤷🏻‍♀️

#anti the hound #anti sansan #jonsa #dot chat #<<< for filtering #I’d much rather sansa live the rest of her life without a partner than end up in one of those ‘canon’ ships

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thewindsofwolves · 1 year

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Jon Snow & Sansa Stark Book Parallels & Mentions 43/∞ : Sansa dreamt of a hero beheading Janos Slynt, and Jon became this hero

Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. A Game Of Thrones, Sansa VI

This is wrong, Jon thought. "Stop." Emmett turned back, frowning. "My lord?" "I will not hang him," said Jon. "Bring him here." "Oh, Seven save us," he heard Bowen Marsh cry out.The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, "Edd, fetch me a block," and unsheathed Longclaw. A Dance With Dragons, Jon II

#jonsa #jon x sansa #actuallyjonsa #jon snow #sansa stark #jonsa book parallels serie #my posts #gifs/edits by me #got #game of thrones #gotedits #asoiaf #asoiafedits #a song of ice and fire #sansastarkedit #jonsnowedit

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agentrouka-blog · 2 years

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I think general fandom had the idea that Jaime will kill Cersei(a mad queen) just because he killed Aerys(a mad King). According to them killing a mad King is somewhat similar to killing your own blood with who you have children.

I think anyone hoping to see their relationship reduced to one of "mad tyrant" v. "knightly tyrant killer" will be sorely disappointed.

There's probably a reason GRRM gave us the story of Aerys' murder of Brandon and Rickard Stark through Jaime. The same reason Lady Stoneheart used that same story as a mockery to torture and blackmail Brienne into doing her bidding to capture Jaime for her. A rope and a choice.

Did GRRM create the picture of love that cannot stop struggling to its doom, that strangles its vessel because it cannot relent, just to illustrate the madness of Aerys? I doubt it.

"When the fire was blazing, Brandon was brought in. His hands were chained behind his back, and around his neck was a wet leathern cord attached to a device the king had brought from Tyrosh. His legs were left free, though, and his longsword was set down just beyond his reach. "The pyromancers roasted Lord Rickard slowly, banking and fanning that fire carefully to get a nice even heat. His cloak caught first, and then his surcoat, and soon he wore nothing but metal and ashes. Next he would start to cook, Aerys promised . . . unless his son could free him. Brandon tried, but the more he struggled, the tighter the cord constricted around his throat. In the end he strangled himself. "As for Lord Rickard, the steel of his breastplate turned cherry-red before the end, and his gold melted off his spurs and dripped down into the fire. I stood at the foot of the Iron Throne in my white armor and white cloak, filling my head with thoughts of Cersei. After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me, 'You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him.' That was the White Bull, loyal to the end and a better man than me, all agree." (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

I think this image of a hopeless struggle to save someone, of a perversely self-inflicted strangulation - will come back again in the end for him and Cersei.

Cersei's own fatal prophecy contains this image of strangulation (by the valonqar), and the sword just out of reach - the sword that Brienne ends up yelling for - it may be the sword Jaime can no longer wield no matter how hard he trains with Ser Ilyn - the sword that once slew Aerys.

He's not going to assassinate Cersei. If he has a hand in her death, it will be closer to Brandon and Rickard. An inescapable trap built around love, and a shared death.

My money is on poison.

#jaime lannister #cersei lannister #jaime x cersei #strangulation

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daenerysstormreborn · 2 years

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After finishing reading AGoT, I have a brand new hope for a way the books may differ from the show. I want to see Sansa snap. I want Sansa to be violent. I want her to get her hands dirty!!

In the show, yes, she’s responsible for the deaths of Ramsey and Littlefinger, but they’re detached kills carried out by someone else. I’d much less likely she’ll kill Ramsey in the books since I know that her marriage to him was a show exclusive, but I wouldn’t mind a bit if she did it on behalf of Jeyne. And I can only hope she kills Littlefinger with her own two hands.

To me, Sansa seems like a character who has believed her whole life that that beauty, politeness, and grace are the keys to her safety. If she can be ladylike, she will be safe. I interpret her desires for Arya to be more of a lady as, at the heart, a desire for her sister to be safe. The songs tell of lovely, happy things, so if she can keep things the way they are in the songs, it will bring safety and happiness and the heroes will win. This is a reasonable conclusion a kid might draw. Kids often fail to recognize what they actually want and misidentify the true sources of their anxiety because they simply lack the self awareness. It wouldn’t be a stretch for a child’s internal, subconsciously narrative to take “the gentle and graceful ladies of the stories are happy and safe” and conclude that “beauty and manners will make a girl happy and safe.” Combine that with a desire for her family to be safe, and it all gets expressed as a desire for Arya to be ladylike. I could imagine that at her core, it’s not politeness that Sansa truly values. She has no reason to care if Arya likes dresses. It’s safety she wants, but she’s a child who doesn’t know how to voice that.

But it seems to me like the books are setting her up to learn that these things, these “feminine” qualities, will not save anyone. To be a lady means nothing. Lady was murdered. And I want her to be ANGRY about it. Angry that she wasted so much time and energy trying to be the perfect image of a noblewoman. And I want her to lash out. I think she definitely has it in her, based on her last chapter in AGoT. She thinks multiple times about wanting to hurt others. She is FURIOUS.

He did not hate her, Sansa realized; neither did he love her. He felt nothing for her at all. She was only a … a thing to him. “No,” she said, rising. She wanted to rage, to hurt him as he’d hurt her,

Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him,

A kind of madness took over her then, and she heard herself say, “Maybe my brother will give me your head.”

And my favorite:

All it would take was a shove, she told herself. He was standing right there, right there, smirking at her with those fat wormlips. You could do it, she told herself. You could. Do it right now. It wouldn’t even matter if she went over with him. It wouldn’t matter at all.

I can only hope that’s foreshadowing. I hope that, in an impulsive act of violence and rage, she pushes Littlefinger off the Eyrie. Nothing proper or calculated. A simple moment where that madness overtakes her and all the rage she’s had comes out in final shove.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #sansa stark

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waitingforwinterwinds · 2 years

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Game of Thrones - 15 SANSA (pages 133-146)

Sansa's lunch date with the queen is cancelled when folks from the capital arrive to meet the procession, so Joffrey takes her on an unsupervised date in the countryside that goes well, until it doesn't, and then it goes Very Wrong, Very Quickly.

The Septa was not appeased. "You're a good girl, Sansa, but I do vow, when it comes to that creature, you're as willful as your sister Arya." She scowled. "And where is Arya this morning?" "She wasn't hungry," Sansa said, knowing full well that her sister had probably stolen down to the kitchen hours ago and wheedled a breakfast out of some cook's boy.

Oh, that's interesting. "when it comes to (Lady), you're (as) willful" And again, with Sansa not taking an easy path to getting her sister in trouble.

"I hate riding," Sansa said fervently. "All it does is get you soiled and dusty and sore."

I know I need to stop projecting, but it's too late. I've head-canoned Sansa as autistic until further notice. ('Elle Woods' Autism specifically which isn't a medically real thing, but just a term coined by a youtuber iirc, for the type of "high functioning" (hang on, sorry just threw up in my mouth a lil.) autism found in girls where they become over invested in stereotypically girly things because it provides them with a set of rules to follow (and also keeps them away from some non-fun sensory squicks like dirt!) which some people think Elle Woods of Legally Blond might have. Not all autistic people are maths geniuses.)

-and lizard-lions floating half submerged in the water, like black logs with eyes and teeth.

Crikey! Lizard-lions are just alligators or crocodiles, aren't they?

Still Sansa wrenched away from him, and the Hound laughed, and Lady moved between them, rumbling a warning. Sansa dropped to her knees to wrap her arms around the wolf. ... -and Sansa realized that the two stranger knights were looking down on her and Lady, swords in their hands, and then she was frightened again, and ashamed. Tears filled her eyes. ... Sansa knew the name, and now courtesies that Septa Mordane had taught her over the years came back to her.

Lady is a Service Dog. That is Sansa's Emotional Support Wolf. No, but it is interesting (to me) that 'shame' ranks up there with fear for Sansa in this moment, because this whole exchange reads... look, let's just say: the head-canon is not getting less head-canoned. I noticed she also had some serious sensitivity to embarrassment, but she recovered pretty quickly once she got to start basically info dumping, when she's sharing knowledge from one of her special interests. Yeah, I'm just going to see how long I can read Sansa as Autistic~

Sorry if that was not the takeaway you expected from this read through~

He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against the evil Ser Morgil's slander.

Hmmmm, I'll give her Joffrey did tell of the Hound, but Ser Ilyn? Mmmmmm... Oh, Also: Neeeeeerd! jk, I love her. She is literally a member of Fandom. *Absolutely anything happens: "omg this is just like my blorbos! this totally has my ship's main vibes!"*

The touch of Joffrey's hand on her sleeve made her heart beat faster. "What would you like to do." Be with you, Sansa thought, but she said, "whatever you'd like to do, my prince." Joffrey reflected a moment. "We could go riding." "Oh, I love riding," Sansa said.

You know, like a liar. No but seriously, babe, I have done this, do not do this, faking your interest just to get along with someone is so taxing. Also, the touch making her heart beat faster could be anxiety, that's a thing that happens when strangers touch people. Anxiety.

No, but autism hc aside, she is trying so hard right now, willing to do something she really doesn't like just to spend time with the boy she's (as far as she knows) going to marry, trying to get to know him, to like what he likes. Unfortunately, he's a piece of complete trash.

She wanted to hit herself for being so slow. Her prince would never lover her if she seemed stupid.

Knowing how lowkey not good the mental health space around the Stark children was at Winterfell... oh look, a flag from the red end of the spectrum. Sorry but this smacks lightly of emotional abuse and reasoning "if I am X, I will be worthy of love."

They dined on trout fresh from the river, and Sansa drank more wine than she had ever drunk before. "My father only let's us have one cup, and only at feasts," she confessed to her prince. "My betrothed can drink as much as she wants," Joffrey said, refilling her cup. They rode more slowly after they had eaten. Joffrey sang for her as they rode, his voice high and sweet and pure. Sansa was a little dizzy from the wine.

Joffrey took her out unsupervised and got her drunk you say?

-but Joffrey was in no mood to listen. The wine had made him wild.

And this is why underaged drinking is Bad. Like Joffrey, who, lbh, probably would have picked this fight stone cold sober.

Sansa was afraid. "Arya, you stay out of this." *The violent t(w)eenage version of the "well that escalated quickly" meme

oh, if only Nymeria had finished the job, and the girls got their story straight. "oh, it was horrible, the pack of wild dogs came out of nowhere, Joffrey tried to defend us, but they just surrounded him and mauled him to death, if it hadn't been for Nymeria, his valiant dying efforts would have been in vain. UwU"

#a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #game of thrones #got #sansa stark #a chapter a day reading #haters get an automatic block okay?

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sherlokiness · 8 months

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Im one of your fans! Ive been following your blog recently and your thoughts on some things about jonsa and Lyanna are really fascinating. Im glad I found like minded person in the community. Really tired of seeing Rhaegar was a rapist rhetoric in the fandom. Can you tell me how you feel about Jon in the show or link me to one youve made before?

Hi, anon! Thanks for the ask!

Thank you so much for that? Hmmmmm. How do I feel about show Jon? I feel ill.🤣🤣🤣 Someone like him isn't worthy of Sansa Stark. At all. That's why I'm against jonsa happening in the Jon Snow sequel. I think Jon and Dany will have a sexual fling until he betrays her so show and books still have some intersection. There is just no conceivable way for Jon Snow to fall for Dany if villain Dany is on the cards imo. What would that make Jon? It's regressing him to Sansa who fell for Joffrey. He ignored Dany's red flags because what? She's beautiful and saved him?

A whole day with her prince! She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders.

Yeah. So did Joffrey. This reminds me of that Aegony gifset of Dany on a dragon calling her a warrior princess.😭😭😭😭😭😭

Once she had loved Prince Joffrey with all her heart, and admired and trusted his mother, the queen. They had repaid that love and trust with her father's head. Sansa would never make that mistake again.

Sansa's delusions about beautiful monsters was repaid by Ned's head. In the show, Jon admired and trusted the beautiful Queen Dany with all his heart but was repaid by the deaths of thousands in KL.At least Sansa was only 11 but what pray in hell is Jon's excuse?

"But what about her bringing her army and dragons?" Stannis also saved Jon when he came with his army yet we know that Jon has reservations against him, Mel and even Val. Let's not even start with Stannis hypocrisy as if him going to the Wall was his choice when there's no other place for him since losing Blackwater. Stannis also framed it as his duty but core is he still wants the Iron Throne and add Shireen to the mix. Oh boy. Dany's not gonna save the realm out of the goodness of her heart. Lmao. Tell me one thing that cost her that's not in line with her quest for the IT and doesn't benefit her? She dons the savior persona as long as it comes with the IT but when the greater good is Jon ruling then fuck Jon and the people of KL. Break the wheel as long as she's on top. She made sacrifices in "Jon's war" and expected people to lick her feet. 🤡🤡🤡 Newsflash Dany: You're not the only one who brought something to the table. She should have stayed in Essos at least the NK wouldn't have a dragon.😅😅

Requited Aegony only works if both of them are heroes because truthfully, what's not to love? I think that the show made it seem like Jon was really in love with Dany because otherwise there will be more hell if it turns out he was in love with another the whole time. It's just consolation for Dany fans whose turn is set in stone. Those writers did not leave room for Dany being an accidental villain like stans so badly want to happen. Oh no, they removed any room for doubt how Dany was always the hypcorite whose greed for the IT was masked as her duty as the last Targ. It all went to hell when she refused Jon and demanded him to live a lie. She didn't give up the throne for Jon, her supposed love and rightful King. Words and wind, anon. I say supposed bc I don't think Dany truly loved him. It was such a cheap love when compared with the IT. PolJon would even this out. They both choose their one true love in the end. 😮‍💨😮‍💨 Jonsa and PolJon are gonna save Dark Dany I tell you.

#sherlokiness ask #ice and fire boy and nothing so sweet #anti-aegony

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istumpysk · 2 years

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Operation Stumpy Re-Read

ACOK: Sansa VIII (Chapter 65)

My little kumquat! 😘

King Joffrey sat above them all, amongst the blades and barbs of the Iron Throne. He was in crimson samite, his black mantle studded with rubies, on his head his heavy golden crown.

Joffrey is dressed like a Targaryen. Remember this, we'll circle back.

+.+.+

The Lord of Casterly Rock made such an impressive figure that it was a shock when his destrier dropped a load of dung right at the base of the throne. Joffrey had to step gingerly around it as he descended to embrace his grandfather and proclaim him Savior of the City.

✨ metaphors ✨

+.+.+

Pride of place was given to Mace Tyrell, the Lord of Highgarden, a once-powerful man gone to fat, yet still handsome. His sons followed him in; Ser Loras and his older brother Ser Garlan the Gallant. The three dressed alike, in green velvet trimmed with sable.

[...]

Ser Garlan Tyrell, five years senior to Ser Loras, was a taller bearded version of his more famous younger brother. He was thicker about the chest and broader at the shoulders, and though his face was comely enough, he lacked Ser Loras's startling beauty.

Kind of interesting, kind of not: at the end of the last Sansa chapter we learn Renly Baratheon saved the city. Fast-forward to this chapter, where they're recognizing all heroes and their deeds during the battle, and Renly is never once mentioned.

Extremely confusing for the reader, and I don't think we get any clarification until the next book. The only clue is the Tyrells dressed in green, and a description of Garlan's body type.

George loves being a little shit.

+.+.+

"The roses support the lion, as the might of Highgarden supports the realm," proclaimed Joffrey. "If there is any boon you would ask of me, ask and it shall be yours."

And now it comes, thought Sansa.

[...]

"Your Grace," Garlan said when the king approached him, "I have a maiden sister, Margaery, the delight of our House. She was wed to Renly Baratheon, as you know, but Lord Renly went to war before the marriage could be consummated, so she remains innocent. Margaery has heard tales of your wisdom, courage, and chivalry, and has come to love you from afar. I beseech you to send for her, to take her hand in marriage, and to wed your House to mine for all time."

King Joffrey made a show of looking surprised. "Ser Garlan, your sister's beauty is famed throughout the Seven Kingdoms, but I am promised to another. A king must keep his word."

Queen Cersei got to her feet in a rustle of skirts. "Your Grace, in the judgment of your small council, it would be neither proper nor wise for you to wed the daughter of a man beheaded for treason, a girl whose brother is in open rebellion against the throne even now. Sire, your councillors beg you, for the good of your realm, set Sansa Stark aside. The Lady Margaery will make you a far more suitable queen."

[...]

Joffrey raised a hand. "I would like to heed the wishes of my people, Mother, but I took a holy vow."

The High Septon stepped forward. "Your Grace, the gods hold bethrothal solemn, but your father, King Robert of blessed memory, made this pact before the Starks of Winterfell had revealed their falseness. Their crimes against the realm have freed you from any promise you might have made. So far as the Faith is concerned, there is no valid marriage contract 'twixt you and Sansa Stark."

[...]

Sansa leaned forward, her hands tight around the gallery's wooden rail. She knew what came next, but she was still frightened of what Joffrey might say, afraid that he would refuse to release her even now, when his whole kingdom depended upon it. She felt as if she were back again on the marble steps outside the Great Sept of Baelor, waiting for her prince to grant her father mercy, and instead hearing him command Ilyn Payne to strike off his head. Please, she prayed fervently, make him say it, make him say it.

This whole scene is scripted, but the author reminds us Joffrey doesn't always follow the plan. I would not be surprised to learn George meant to convey Joffrey was waffling, and that look from Tywin was necessary.

Side note, we have betrothals being broken by Kings in back-to-back chapters. Sadly, one side is more crafty about it.

+.+.+

"Yes. But if I'm not to be queen, what will become of me?"

We don't have to worry about that.

+.+.+

The queen was irritated by that. "You should have learned by now, none of us get the things we want."

Oh, but Sansa does. We already know that.

+.+.+

Next came four of lesser birth who had distinguished themselves in the fighting: the one-eyed knight Ser Philip Foote, who had slain Lord Bryce Caron in single combat; the freerider Lothor Brune, who'd cut his way through half a hundred Fossoway men-at-arms to capture Ser Jon of the green apple and kill Ser Bryan and Ser Edwyd of the red, thereby winning himself the name Lothor Apple-Eater; Willit, a grizzled man-at-arms in the service of Ser Harys Swyft, who'd pulled his master from beneath his dying horse and defended him against a dozen attackers; and a downy-cheeked squire named Josmyn Peckledon, who had killed two knights, wounded a third, and captured two more, though he could not have been more than fourteen. Willit was borne in on a litter, so grievous were his wounds.

Ser Kevan had taken a seat beside his brother Lord Tywin. When the heralds had finished telling of each hero's deeds, he rose. "It is His Grace's wish that these good men be rewarded for their valor. By his decree, Ser Philip shall henceforth be Lord Philip of House Foote, and to him shall go all the lands, rights, and incomes of House Caron. Lothor Brune to be raised to the estate of knighthood, and granted land and keep in the riverlands at war's end. To Josmyn Peckledon, a sword and suit of plate, his choice of any warhorse in the royal stables, and knighthood as soon as he shall come of age. And lastly, for Goodman Willit, a spear with a silver-banded haft, a hauberk of new-forged ringmail, and a full helm with visor. Further, the goodman's sons shall be taken into the service of House Lannister at Casterly Rock, the elder as a squire and the younger as a page, with the chance to advance to knighthood if they serve loyally and well. To all this, the King's Hand and the small council consent."

Sorry for making you read that, but I get super paranoid when we spend this much time on four random nobodies.

Ser Philip Foote is a one-eyed knight who is given Lord Bryce Caron's lands after he kills him. In ADWD, Philip's claim to those lands will be challenged by Lord Bryce Caron's bastard half-brother.

Lothor Brune enters the service of Littlefinger. He will eventually protect Sansa from Marillion, and develop a crush on Mya Stone. He has been promised land and keep in the riverlands when the war is finished.

Nothing noteworthy about Goodman Willit, but the man he serves, Ser Harys Swyft, is trapped under a horse during the battle.

Josmyn Peckledon, or Peck, shares commonalities with Podrick Payne. He'll later become Jaime Lannister's squire, and frequently sleep with Pia. He burns Cersei's letter to Jaime.

There might be something here, but I feel like I have to bend myself in a pretzel to get there.

+.+.+

A more significant lordship by far was granted to Ser Lancel Lannister. Joffrey awarded him the lands, castle, and rights of House Darry, whose last child lord had perished during the fighting in the riverlands, "leaving no trueborn heirs of lawful Darry blood, but only a bastard cousin."

Oh yeah? A Lannister is going to claim the lands and castle of a decimated family with no trueborn heirs, with the exception of a bastard cousin?

Is Kevan Lannister going to marry his son Lancel to Amerei Frey, the eldest daughter of the female heir to Darry, to strengthen his claim over the Darry lands?

Stealth jonsa. Pretty sure that bastard is still alive too.

+.+.+

The Imp was said to be dying as well, from a terrible cut to the head.

As if I'm that lucky.

+.+.+

Sansa had not heard of Littlefinger doing anything especially heroic during the battle, but it seemed he was to be rewarded all the same.

Ser Kevan got back to his feet. "It is the wish of the King's Grace that his loyal councillor Petyr Baelish be rewarded for faithful service to crown and realm. Be it known that Lord Baelish is granted the castle of Harrenhal with all its attendant lands and incomes, there to make his seat and rule henceforth as Lord Paramount of the Trident. Petyr Baelish and his sons and grandsons shall hold and enjoy these honors until the end of time, and all the lords of the Trident shall do him homage as their rightful liege. The King's Hand and the small council consent."

On his knees, Littlefinger raised his eyes to King Joffrey. "I thank you humbly, Your Grace. I suppose this means I'll need to see about getting some sons and grandsons."

He does not mean with Lysa.

I can't tell if this is sloppy writing, or if Roose and Tywin are already fully allied, and Littlefinger knows everything.

We'll learn at the end of this chapter that the plot to kill Joffrey is in full motion, and only a month away. Killing Joffrey, when Robb is still alive, is a great way to turn the tides in favour of House Stark and ensure you never get your castle.

Either Littlefinger already knows Robb is a dead man (Impressive, given the marriage alliance with House Frey was just broken), or George didn't think the timeline of this one through.

Or maybe he really is an agent of chaos.

+.+.+

Lord Paramount of the Trident, Sansa thought, and Lord of Harrenhal as well. She did not understand why that should make him so happy; the honors were as empty as the title granted to Hallyne the Pyromancer. Harrenhal was cursed, everyone knew that, and the Lannisters did not even hold it at present. Besides, the lords of the Trident were sworn to Riverrun and House Tully, and to the King in the North; they would never accept Littlefinger as their liege. Unless they are made to. Unless my brother and my uncle and my grandfather are all cast down and killed.

Arya can't figure out what princess is betrothed to a Frey, meanwhile Sansa's over here piecing together the plot of ASOS.

I'm SORRY, it's funny!

+.+.+

Robb has beaten them every time. He'll beat Lord Baelish too, if he must.

Sorry hun, your brother can't be relied upon, you're going to have to defeat him yourself. We believe in you.

+.+.+

More than six hundred new knights were made that day. They had held their vigil in the Great Sept of Baelor all through the night and crossed the city barefoot that morning to prove their humble hearts.

[...]

Some had bloody feet from their walk through the city, but they stood tall and proud all the same, it seemed to Sansa.

+.+.+

But no sooner had that one been dragged away than a knight of solemn mien with a fiery heart on his surcoat shouted out, "Stannis is the true king! A monster sits the Iron Throne, an abomination born of incest!"

"Be silent," Ser Kevan Lannister bellowed.

The knight raised his voice instead. "Joffrey is the black worm eating the heart of the realm! Darkness was his father, and death his mother! Destroy him before he corrupts you all! Destroy them all, queen whore and king worm, vile dwarf and whispering spider, the false flowers. Save yourselves!" One of the gold cloaks knocked the man off his feet, but he continued to shout. "The scouring fire will come! King Stannis will return!"

Are we sure this is about Joffrey?

+.+.+

Joffrey lurched to his feet. "I'm king! Kill him! Kill him now! I command it." He chopped down with his hand, a furious, angry gesture . . . and screeched in pain when his arm brushed against one of the sharp metal fangs that surrounded him. The bright crimson samite of his sleeve turned a darker shade of red as his blood soaked through it. "Mother!" he wailed.

With every eye on the king, somehow the man on the floor wrested a spear away from one of the gold cloaks, and used it to push himself back to his feet. "The throne denies him!" he cried. "He is no king!"

[...]

They say the Iron Throne can be perilous cruel to those who were not meant to sit it.

Hey, remember how Joffrey is dressed like a Targaryen? :)

+.+.+

"The queen will never let you go, never. You are too valuable a hostage. And Joffrey . . . sweetling, he is still king. If he wants you in his bed, he will have you, only now it will be bastards he plants in your womb instead of trueborn sons."

My stance is there will be no bastards in Sansa's womb.

+.+.+

"When?" Sansa asked. "When will we go?"

"The night of Joffrey's wedding. After the feast. All the necessary arrangements have been made. The Red Keep will be full of strangers. Half the court will be drunk and the other half will be helping Joffrey bed his bride. For a little while, you will be forgotten, and the confusion will be our friend."

"The wedding won't be for a moon's turn yet. Margaery Tyrell is at Highgarden, they've only now sent for her."

"You've waited so long, be patient awhile longer. Here, I have something for you." Ser Dontos fumbled in his pouch and drew out a silvery spiderweb, dangling it between his thick fingers.

It was a hair net of fine-spun silver, the strands so thin and delicate the net seemed to weigh no more than a breath of air when Sansa took it in her fingers. Small gems were set wherever two strands crossed, so dark they drank the moonlight. "What stones are these?"

"Black amethysts from Asshai. The rarest kind, a deep true purple by daylight."

"It's very lovely," Sansa said, thinking, It is a ship I need, not a net for my hair.

"Lovelier than you know, sweet child. It's magic, you see. It's justice you hold. It's vengeance for your father." Dontos leaned close and kissed her again. "It's home."

Tiny clues already hiding in the text.

Dany's tight silver collar was chafing against her throat. She unfastened it and flung it aside. The collar was set with an enchanted amethyst that Xaro swore would ward her against all poisons. - Daenerys III, ACOK

Anyway, more sloppy writing:

Littlefinger and Lady Olenna have already planned Joffrey's murder at this point (Great job sending Littlefinger, Tyrion), so how come Lady Olenna interrogates Sansa over Joffrey's character in the next book?

Are you telling me she's on the fence? Sansa has to convince her to go through with it? Because I don't think Littlefinger would accept her backing out of something like that, nor do I think he requires her participation.

Am I missing something? Usually I am.

Final thoughts:

Tyrion is never once mentioned or thanked during their wank fest in the throne room, and I was smiling about it the entire time. Loser.

-> return to menu <-

#operation stumpy re-read #acok #sansa viii

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fedonciadale · 2 years

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Sansa and prayers

So for #sansamonth2022 24 prayers I unearthed one of my older posts where I talked about Sansa, her prayers and how they are fullfilled (or not).

There can be no doubt that some of Sansa’s prayers come true, if not immediately.

Fulfilled prayers/fervent wishes are the following:

I hope he falls and shames himself, she thought bitterly. I hope Ser Balon kills him. When Joffrey proclaimed her father's death, it had been Janos Slynt who seized Lord Eddard's severed head by the hair and raised it on high for king and crowd to behold, while Sansa wept and screamed.

Morros wore a checkered black-and-gold cloak over black armor inlaid with golden scrollwork. On his shield was the bloody spear his father had chosen as the sigil of their new-made house. But he did not seem to know what to do with the shield as he urged his horse forward, and Ser Balon's point struck the blazon square. Morros dropped his lance, fought for balance, and lost. One foot caught in a stirrup as he fell, and the runaway charger dragged the youth to the end of the lists, head bouncing against the ground. Joff hooted derision. Sansa was appalled, wondering if the gods had heard her vengeful prayer. (ACOK, Sansa I) -> this is very interesting because it might foreshadow what will happen to Harry the Heir

And finally, toward the end, she even sang for Tyrion the Imp and for the Hound. He is no true knight but he saved me all the same, she told the Mother. Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him. (ACOK, Sansa V) -> that one worked, since the Hound did not rape her, makes you wonder about all the other things Sansa prayed for while singing as we see in Sansa VII

Please don't kill me, she wanted to scream, please don't. She could feel him twisting the point, pushing it into her throat, and she almost closed her eyes again, but then she remembered. It was not the song of Florian and Jonquil, but it was a song. Her voice sounded small and thin and tremulous in her ears. (ACOK, Sansa VII) -> It’s almost a miracle that the Hound really lets Sansa go. Tells you something about the power of her singing.

She felt as if she were back again on the marble steps outside the Great Sept of Baelor, waiting for her prince to grant her father mercy, and instead hearing him command Ilyn Payne to strike off his head. Please, she prayed fervently, make him say it, make him say it.

Lord Tywin was looking at his grandson. Joff gave him a sullen glance, shifted his feet, and helped Ser Garlan Tyrell to rise. "The gods are good. I am free to heed my heart. I will wed your sweet sister, and gladly, ser." He kissed Ser Garlan on a bearded cheek as the cheers rose all around them. (ACOK, Sansa VII) -> Sansa wants to be free of the betrothal to Joffrey and at that moment, she is.

Please, she prayed, don't let him start to twitch and shake. Not here. Not now. Maester Coleman would have made certain that he drank a strong dose of sweetmilk before the feast, but even so. (TWOW, Alayne I) -> As far as we know Sweetrobin did indeed not shake at the feast.

Other prayers wishes have been fulfilled on the show:

Help me, she prayed, send me a friend, a true knight to champion me (ACOK, Sansa II) -> Brienne has come, a true knight.

Come to the godswood tonight, if you want to go home. (ACOK, Sansa II) -> Sansa has come home

I pray for Robb's victory and Joffrey's death . . . and for home. For Winterfell. "I pray for an end to the fighting." (ACOK, Sansa III) -> this is fulfilled only partially. Although Robb won many victories he still died, but Joffrey is dead sure enough and Sansa is back in Winterfell an we actually might get an end to the fighting at the end of the books

"Let him." When Sansa had first beheld the Great Sept with its marble walls and seven crystal towers, she'd thought it was the most beautiful building in the world, but that had been before Joffrey beheaded her father on its steps. "I want it burned." (ACOK, Sansa IV) -> Boom, there went the great sept in season 6, episode 10. This will happen in the books as well, I’m certain.

Prayers that might still be fulfilled in the books:

"I went to the godswood to pray for the safety of the king." The lie sounded better this time, almost true. (ACOK, Sansa II) -> will this be fulfilled at some point when she prays for Jon or Bran?

A lady's armor is her courtesy. Alayne could feel the blood rushing to her face. No tears, she prayed. Please, please, I must not cry. "As you wish, ser. And now if you will excuse me, Littlefinger's bastard must find her lord father and let him know that you have come, so we can begin the tourney on the morrow." And may your horse stumble, Harry the Heir, so you fall on your stupid head in your first tilt. She showed the Waynwoods a stone face as they blurted out awkward apologies for their companion. When they were done she turned and fled. (TWOW, Alayne I) -> her immediate prayer worked here: She did not cry, We’ll yet have to see what will happen to Harry. My money is on him indeed falling in his first tilt.

Wishes that worked (for now)

"Take him to Maester Frenken." Lancel was one of them, yet somehow she still could not bring herself to wish him dead. I am soft and weak and stupid, just as Joffrey says. I should be killing him, not helping him. (ACOK, Sansa VII) -> I really wonder how long Lancel will survive? He already lived long enough to wreak havoc on the relationship of Jaime and Cersei

Wishes that might work, but not in the way Sansa thought

"I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies." (AGOT, SAnsa III) -> We’ll see about that?

I don't want any Lannister, she wanted to say. I want Willas, I want Highgarden and the puppies and the barge, and sons named Eddard and Bran and Rickon. (ASOS, Sansa III) -> She might yet get the children she wants, if not with Willas

It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love. (ASOS, Sansa VI) -> We’ll see about that.

She smiled just for him, and said a silent prayer to the Maiden. Please, he doesn't need to love me, just make him like me, just a little, that would be enough for now. (TWOW, Alayne I)

Wishes that worked (and not for Sansa’s good)

"I didn't do anything wrong," Sansa pleaded with him. "I don't want to go back." (AGOT, Sansa III) -> She stayed in King’s Landing, poor Sansa

Prayers that didn’t work:

Ah, poor sad thing," sighed Varys. "She is only a babe, my lords, she does not know what she asks."

Sansa had eyes only for Joffrey. He must listen to me, he must, she thought. The king shifted on his seat. "Let her speak," he commanded. (AGOT, Sansa V) -> Sansa begging for Ned’s life sadly failed.

Laugh, Joffrey, she prayed as the juice ran down her face and the front of her blue silk gown. Laugh and be satisfied.

Joffrey did not so much as snigger. "Boros. Meryn." (ACOK, Sansa III) - Isn’t it interesting that her power fails when it comes to Joffrey?

"I . . . I pray you will have long years together, and many children, and be very happy in one another." It had been years since Sansa last saw her mother's sister. She will be kind to me for my mother's sake, surely. She's my own blood. And the Vale of Arryn was beautiful, all the songs said so. Perhaps it would not be so terrible to stay here for a time. (ASOS, Sansa VI) ->O.k. Littlefinger’s marriage to Lysa was short-lived.... very short-lived. Her wish certainly was just a courtesy

Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her once again. "I wish that you were Lady," she said. (ASOS, Sansa VI) -> Lady stays dead. No chance to bring back the dead.

Sansa doesn’t have great confidence in her prayers ans she rarely notices that her prayers are answered and this is a gradual development. In the beginning she has confidence in her prayers

"I want to go home."

The queen was irritated by that. "You should have learned by now, none of us get the things we want."

I have, though, Sansa thought. I am free of Joffrey. I will not have to kiss him, nor give him my maidenhood, nor bear him children. Let Margaery Tyrell have all that, poor girl. (ACOK, SAnsa VIII) -> Later Sansa realizes that this is an illusion, that she is still at the mercy of the Lannisters.

"Hush, child, the gods will hear you."

"Why should they? They never hear my prayers."

"Yes they do. They sent me to you, didn't they?" (ASOS, Sansa IV) -> poor disillusioned Sansa

The gods heard my prayer, she thought. She felt so numb and dreamy. My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel. Her hands moved stiffly, awkwardly, as if they had never let down her hair before. For a moment she wished Shae was there, to help her with the net.

When she pulled it free, her long auburn hair cascaded down her back and across her shoulders. (ASOS, Sansa V) -> and in this case her prayer is not really answered, because she won’t be entirely free with Littlefinger. So Sansa is mistaken about when her prayers are answered.

Sansa followed unresisting. I could never abide the weeping of women, Joff once said, but his mother was the only woman weeping now. In Old Nan's stories the grumkins crafted magic things that could make a wish come true. Did I wish him dead? she wondered, before she remembered that she was too old to believe in grumkins. (ASOS, Sansa V) -> She prayed for Joffrey’s death and yet she is unsure, if she’s the cause of his death. She is though. Without her the Tyrells would not have killed him.

Another new day. It was the old days she hungered for. Prayed for. But who could she pray to? The garden had been meant for a godswood once, she knew, but the soil was too thin and stony for a weirwood to take root. A godswood without gods, as empty as me. (ASOS, Sansa VII) -> She has lost her confidence that there is someone who listens.

They hadn't, though, not for a year or more. Sansa had prayed to the Seven in their sept and old gods of the heart tree, asking them to bring the old man back, or better still to send another singer, young and handsome. But the gods never answered, and the halls of Winterfell stayed silent.

But that was when she was a little girl, and foolish. She was a maiden now, three-and-ten and flowered. All her nights were full of song, and by day she prayed for silence. (AFFC, Sansa I) -> Interesting that Sansa has lost her confidence in her prayers. I wonder when she will get that back? When she learns that Janos Slynt has died by Jon’s hands?

O.k. As you can see prayers and fervent wishes of Sansa’s have a tendency to be fulfilled, a power she is completely unaware of, the further we come along in the books, the less confidence Sansa has in the Gods even listening to her not to talk about fulfilling her prayers.

Sansa’s magic comes from the heart, from fervent wishes, and while she has the suspicion once or twice that her prayer has been fulfilled, that suspicion is drowned in her doubts about the gods and their goodwill. I would say that it is more fate and destiny and maybe the Old Gods working magic for her than Sansa herself working magic with the exception of her singing for the Hound. Her magic is singing and I think that we’ll see that at work once she sings for Jon at the wall and he’ll remember his human soul. I do think that of all the Stark children, Sansa’s magic is the least sinister, the least harmful. Even the people who die after she wished for them to die, had it coming.

#Sansa Stark #sansamonth2022 #Day 24 #Prayers #Sansa's prayers #Sansa's magic

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jackoshadows · 2 years

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Sansa sighed as she stitched. “Poor Jon,” she said. “He gets jealous because he’s a bastard." - Arya, AGoT

“Only Robb and his baseborn half brother Jon Snow had been old enough to be worth his notice. The bastard was a sullen boy, quick to sense a slight, jealous of Theon's high birth and Robb's regard for him.” - Theon, ACoK

Something to note here is that it’s the two characters not close to Jon who attribute jealousy to Jon because of his low birth. We don’t see similar comments or thoughts from Arya, Robb or Bran - the siblings who know Jon well. From Jon and Arya’s POV chapters, we see no jealousy from Jon of Joffrey’s high birth and from Jon’s own POV I don’t think we read of any jealousy towards Theon’s high birth.

The character we do read Jon being envious of his high birth is Robb Stark - which makes sense considering they are Ned’s eldest sons but Jon is denied what Robb gets - and yet Robb himself fully trusts Jon to do the right thing after being legitimized by Robb’s decree.

I thought this was as an interesting point to add to the other Sansa/Theon similarities -

Wanting Stannis to come rescue them from KL/Winterfell -

He’d owned a sword named Lion’s Tooth once, Sansa remembered. Arya had taken it from him and thrown it in a river. I hope Stannis does the same with this one.- Sansa, ACoK

Theon never believed a word of it. He would dance this dance for them because he had no choice, but afterward … He will give me back to Ramsay then, he thought, and Ramsay will take a few more fingers and turn me into Reek once more. Unless the gods were good, and Stannis Baratheon descended on Winterfell and put all of them to the sword, himself included. That was the best he could hope for. -The Prince of Winterfell, ADwD

GRRM’s poetic description of the snow in both the Vale and Winterfell -

Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover’s kisses, and melted on her cheeks. At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams.” - Sansa, ASoS

When he raised his head, the snowflakes brushed his cheeks like cold soft kisses. He could hear the sound of music from the hall behind him. A soft song now, and sad. For a moment he felt almost at peace.- A Ghost in Winterfell, ADwD

Sansa and Theon united in thinking their abuser’s lips look like worms...

Sansa stared at him, seeing him for the first time… She wondered how she could ever have thought him handsome. His lips were as soft and red as the worms you found after a rain, and his eyes were vain and cruel. “I hate you,” she whispered. - Sansa, AGoT

His lips looked like two worms fucking. - Theon, ACoK

LF telling Sansa in book one that life is not like her songs and Theon acknowledging that harsh reality

Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. “Life is not a song, sweetling,” he’d told her. “You may learn that one day to your sorrow.” In life, the monsters win - Sansa, AGoT

In songs, the hero always saved the maiden from the monster’s castle, but life was not a song, no more than Jeyne was Arya Stark.- Theon, ADwD

Point to note here. Theon is another deconstruction of tropes by GRRM. This traumatized, mutilated man is the hero who ends up saving the maiden from the monster’s castle proving both Sansa and Theon himself wrong.

It’s Theon who rescues Sansa’s bestie Jeyne Poole just like Sam saving Gilly or Arya stepping in to defend Mycah or Brienne being a true knight or Tyrion/Jaime/Sandor jumping in to help Cat/Brienne/Sansa etc.

It’s a philosophy that GRRM embeds into a lot of his books - that ‘heroes’ don’t have to always be the handsome, high born, good-natured, beautiful chivalrous knights of the songs that Sansa romanticizes and loves.

#Theon Greyjoy #Sansa Stark #Jon Snow

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kitnjon · 8 months

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Jonsa Halloween 2023 - Day 04 - Weapon

‘Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes’ ~ A Game of Thrones - Sansa VI

"If the boy thinks that he can frighten me, he is mistaken," they heard Lord Janos said. "He would not dare to hang me. Janos Slynt has friends, important friends, you'll see …" The wind whipped away the rest of his words.This is wrong, Jon thought. "Stop."

"Oh, Seven save us," he heard Bowen Marsh cry out.The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, "Edd, fetch me a block," and unsheathed Longclaw.’ ~ A Dance with Dragons - Jon II

#jonsa #jon x sansa #jon snow #sansa stark #jonsa halloween #jonsa halloween 2023 #gameofthronesdaily #asoiafsnet #gotasoiafsource #jonsource #sansasource #edits: original #my post #blood tw

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goodqueenaly · 3 years

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Is there really a need for a "culprit" for Ned Stark's execution? Beheading him and calling it a mercy is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect Joffrey to do; the only one who truly accuses Littlefinger is Varys, the man whose main blind spot is children having agency; and I can't really see Petyr trusting Joffrey with an execution that goes against Cersei's plan when Joffrey could easily blurt out "I can't believe even Littlefinger has more guts than you!" or something like this.

Here's the thing about Joffrey, though - he was not a particularly clever, subtle, or strategic sort; the height of Joffrey's cunning, as Tyrion wryly notes in ASOS, was to have sent his catspaw with a dagger very obviously belonging to his father to kill Bran after the royal party left Winterfell. That Ned's execution was clearly a planned-ahead event is evident from the fact that both Janos Slynt and Ilyn Payne were immediately ready to follow Joffrey's orders; these were men clearly, and given the nature of their roles probably separately, approached to make sure they knew what to do on the day in question. To me, that sounds much less like a boy with one, clumsy assassination attempt under his belt and much more like a man who already had a means of control over both of those men.

Littlefinger did not have to trust Joffrey with much of anything to have been behind the execution; all Littlefinger has to do is nudge Joffrey in the right direction and trust that Joffrey's own inherent cruelty will win out over what his mother, Varys, and the rest of the small council (save, of course, Littlefinger himself) had already prepped Joffrey to do. Littlefinger operates well with the subtle suggestion: we see this from his work with the Tyrells (both in "prais[ing] [Joffrey] to the skies ... whilst [his] men spread disturbing tales amongst Lord Tyrell's servants" and in having "men in [his] party supplied grisly tales about how the mob had killed Ser Preston Greenfield and raped the Lady Lollys" while "slipp[ing] a few silvers to Lord Tyrell's army of singers to sing of Ryam Redwyne, Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight") as well as his convincing Joffrey to sanction the jousting dwarfs (by playing on Joffrey's eager cruelty toward his disabled uncle). That same strategy would have served Littlefinger well with Joffrey regarding Ned's execution: remind Joffrey that, say, "a strong king acts boldly, he doesn't just talk", remark, say, how unfortunate it is that treason should go unpunished, and I think Littlefinger would have gotten the ball rolling in Joffrey's head that he could, nay indeed should, have Ned killed.

And in turn, which is the more interesting explanation for the event - an explanation that, unlike those for the murder of Jon Arryn and the attempted murder of Bran (the latter of which was of course explained by Joffrey's own personality), has been left unanswered, I think deliberately so, by the author? (And I say deliberately because the author has specifically brought it up, on multiple occasions, without ever providing an answer, while openly stating who was not behind it.) What does it do for the reader if it turns out that this was Joffrey's plan the whole time, except confirm (as if it needed any more confirming) that Joffrey was a terrible and cruel person? By contrast, what does it do - especially for Sansa's story - if it turns out that this was Littlefinger's plan? For a girl being groomed by Littlefinger himself to embrace his thesis on truth and lies and to forget that she ever had a father named Eddard Stark, the reveal that this would-be father arranged the murder of her true father (combined with the reveal of what he did to Jeyne Poole) will be, I think, the motivation she needs to denounce him and bring him to justice.

I'll add as a final note here that the "Enhanced Edition" of ASOS - which, as all the Enhanced Editions do, includes authorial annotations - adds the following annotation when Littlefinger describes to Sansa how he convinced Joffrey to have the jousting dwarves perform at his wedding:

Littlefinger's secret influence on the king may provide an answer as to who whispered in Joffrey's ear and convinced him to execute Eddard Stark.

#asoiaf meta #littlefinger #petyr baelish #joffrey baratheon #eddard stark #agot

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esther-dot · 3 years

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Sansa was enchanted by joffery chivalry before trident incident. She was infatuated with Loras when he gave her flower and dream about kissing him. She dream about domestic life with Willas and admire Garlan and his quips when he danced with her. She also enjoyed sassing Harry and he did apologize for his rude behavior. Antis think sansa is superficial for liking these guys but it tells what she wanted in her life partner. Contrast these instances with those pedos who only enjoy humiliating her.

I love how you explained this, anon. The fandom collects a lot of stuff about Sansa under the umbrella of "shallow" when they ignore that Joffrey's behavior charms Sansa, not simply his appearance:

"It would be my pleasure, Mother," Joffrey said very formally. He took her by the arm and led her away from the wheelhouse, and Sansa's spirits took flight. A whole day with her prince! She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders.

The touch of Joffrey's hand on her sleeve made her heart beat faster. "What would you like to do?" (AGOT, Sansa I)

and his ability to behave how he needed to manipulate people is mentioned later when she is worried about Margaery:

She did not want Margaery to suffer as she had, but she dreaded the thought that the Tyrells might refuse to go ahead with the wedding. I warned her, I did, I told her the truth of him. Perhaps Margaery did not believe her. Joff always played the perfect knight with her, as once he had with Sansa. (ASOS, Sansa II)

Sansa's belief in the songs isn't just cute, she truly sees things through that lens, and she does this with Loras too:

Ser Loras was the youngest son of Mace Tyrell, the Lord of Highgarden and Warden of the South. At sixteen, he was the youngest rider on the field, yet he had unhorsed three knights of the Kingsguard that morning in his first three jousts. Sansa had never seen anyone so beautiful. His plate was intricately fashioned and enameled as a bouquet of a thousand different flowers, and his snow-white stallion was draped in a blanket of red and white roses. After each victory, Ser Loras would remove his helm and ride slowly round the fence, and finally pluck a single white rose from the blanket and toss it to some fair maiden in the crowd.

His last match of the day was against the younger Royce. Ser Robar's ancestral runes proved small protection as Ser Loras split his shield and drove him from his saddle to crash with an awful clangor in the dirt. Robar lay moaning as the victor made his circuit of the field. Finally they called for a litter and carried him off to his tent, dazed and unmoving. Sansa never saw it. Her eyes were only for Ser Loras. When the white horse stopped in front of her, she thought her heart would burst.

To the other maidens he had given white roses, but the one he plucked for her was red. "Sweet lady," he said, "no victory is half so beautiful as you." Sansa took the flower timidly, struck dumb by his gallantry. His hair was a mass of lazy brown curls, his eyes like liquid gold. She inhaled the sweet fragrance of the rose and sat clutching it long after Ser Loras had ridden off. (AGOT, Sansa II)

Not only does it mean she places these people as certain "characters" who must be a certain way, she believes their actions mean something about their feelings. She thought Joffrey cared when he didn't and she reads motives into Loras's actions that aren't there either:

"At the Hand's tourney, don't you remember? You rode a white courser, and your armor was a hundred different kinds of flowers. You gave me a rose. A red rose. You threw white roses to the other girls that day." It made her flush to speak of it. "You said no victory was half as beautiful as me."

Ser Loras gave her a modest smile. "I spoke only a simple truth, that any man with eyes could see."

He doesn't remember, Sansa realized, startled. He is only being kind to me, he doesn't remember me or the rose or any of it. She had been so certain that it meant something, that it meant everything. A red rose, not a white. "It was after you unhorsed Ser Robar Royce," she said, desperately. (ASOS, Sansa I)

She truly thought the red rose indicated something about how Loras saw her, poor girl. I know at this point some think she's still shallow, but to me, her thoughts about Willas are...well, pretty mature for her age. Not just the fact that she only wants safety/peace, but the end of this quote where she thinks about her expectations and purposes to control them:

Sometimes she would whisper his name into her pillow just to hear the sound of it. "Willas, Willas, Willas." Willas was as good a name as Loras, she supposed. They even sounded the same, a little. What did it matter about his leg? Willas would be Lord of Highgarden and she would be his lady.

She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge. If I give him sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa's dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya.

She could never hold a picture of Willas long in her head, though; her imaginings kept turning him back into Ser Loras, young and graceful and beautiful. You must not think of him like that, she told herself. Or else he may see the disappointment in your eyes when you meet, and how could he marry you then, knowing it was his brother you loved? Willas Tyrell was twice her age, she reminded herself constantly, and lame as well, and perhaps even plump and red-faced like his father. But comely or no, he might be the only champion she would ever have. (ASOS, Sansa II)

Sansa's dreams have shifted significantly here. She wants peace and safety, not for a song to become reality, but most of all, she longs for love:

She would wear her new gown for the ceremony at the Great Sept of Baelor, she decided as the seamstress took her last measurement. That must be why Cersei is having it made for me, so I will not look shabby at the wedding. She really ought to have a different gown for the feast afterward but she supposed one of her old ones would do. She did not want to risk getting food or wine on the new one. I must take it with me to Highgarden. She wanted to look beautiful for Willas Tyrell. Even if Dontos was right, and it is Winterfell he wants and not me, he still may come to love me for myself. (ASOS, Sansa II)

and

"You are very beautiful, my lady," the seamstress said when she was dressed.

"I am, aren't I?" Sansa giggled, and spun, her skirts swirling around her. "Oh, I am." She could not wait for Willas to see her like this. He will love me, he will, he must . . . he will forget Winterfell when he sees me, I'll see that he does. (ASOS, Sansa III)

There's a consensus in some corners that Sansa is still shallow because of her refusal to meet Tyrion's needs which is unfair to Sansa because Tyrion offers for her to marry Lancel instead, mentioning that he's better looking. This is Sansa's reaction:

I don't want any Lannister, she wanted to say. I want Willas, I want Highgarden and the puppies and the barge, and sons named Eddard and Bran and Rickon. But then she remembered what Dontos had told her in the godswood. Tyrell or Lannister, it makes no matter, it's not me they want, only my claim. "You are kind, my lord," she said, defeated. "I am a ward of the throne and my duty is to marry as the king commands." (ASOS, Sansa III)

She would prefer Willas over Lancel. Marrying Tyrion or Lancel is an equivalent evil, because the problem is he's an enemy of her family, not his appearance.

When it comes to Harry, I think I disagree with you there because I didn't think Sansa liked him, but however you interpret their interaction, there is no comparison between him and the men who molest Sansa. He isn't a monster, but he is an ass, and when we compare their dance with the description of Sansa's experience dancing with Garlan, I don't see anything to make me believe Sansa was charmed, only that she is more capable than she knows of charming others:

It was so sweet and silly that Sansa had to laugh, despite everything. Afterward she was absurdly grateful. Somehow the laughter made her hopeful again, if only for a little while. Smiling, she let the music take her, losing herself in the steps, in the sound of flute and pipes and harp, in the rhythm of the drum . . . and from time to time in Ser Garlan's arms, when the dance brought them together. "My lady wife is most concerned for you," he said quietly, one such time. (ASOS, Sansa III)

Above, we get an experience this is comforting and enjoyable for Sansa. I don't see that in her dance with Harry, only the need to win him over and her success in doing so:

Say something, she urged herself. You will never make Ser Harry love you if you don’t have the courage to talk him. Should she tell him what a good dancer he was? __No_, he’s probably heard that a dozen times tonight. Besides, Petyr said that I should not seem eager._ Instead she said, “I have heard that you are about to be a father.” It was not something most girls would say to their almost-betrothed, but she wanted to see if Ser Harrold would lie.

“For the second time. My daughter Alys is two years old.”

Your bastard daughter Alys, Alayne thought, but what she said was, “That one had a different mother, though.”

“Yes. Cissy was a pretty thing when I tumbled her, but childbirth left her as fat as a cow, so Lady Anya arranged for her to marry one of her men-at-arms. It is different with Saffron.”

“Saffron?” Alayne tried not to laugh. “Truly?”

Ser Harrold had the grace to blush. “Her father says she is more precious to him than gold. He’s rich, the richest man in Gulltown. A fortune in spices.”

“What will you name the babe?” she asked. “Cinnamon if she’s a girl? Cloves if he’s a boy?”

That almost made him stumble. “My lady japes.”

“Oh, no.” Petyr will howl when I tell him what I said.

“Saffron is very beautiful, I’ll have you know. Tall and slim, with big brown eyes and hair like honey.”

Alayne raised her head. “More beautiful than me?”

Ser Harrold studied her face. “You are comely enough, I grant you. When Lady Anya first told me of this match, I was afraid that you might look like your father.”

“Little pointy beard and all?” Alayne laughed.

“I never meant…“

“I hope you joust better than you talk.”

For a moment he looked shocked. But as the song was ending, he burst into a laugh. “No one told me you were clever.”

He has good teeth, she thought, straight and white. And when he smiles, he has the nicest dimples. She ran one finger down his cheek. “Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want.”

He grinned. “I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?”

“You may not. It is promised to… another.” She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone. (TWOW, Alayne I)

The moment when she sees his dimple and touches his cheek could be interpreted as her responding to him, but we already had this moment earlier in the chapter

Harry, though...

My Harry. My lord, my lover, my betrothed.

Ser Harrold Hardyng looked every inch a lord-in-waiting; clean-limbed and handsome, straight as a lance, hard with muscle. Men old enough to have known Jon Arryn in his youth said Ser Harrold had his look, she knew. He had a mop of sandy blond hair, pale blue eyes, an aquiline nose. Joffrey was comely too, though, she reminded herself. A comely monster, that's what he was. Little Lord Tyrion was kinder, twisted though he was. (TWOW, Alayne I)

which was followed up by Harry humiliating her and making her cry. So, again, he isn't the worst, but I don't think Sansa is moved by his beauty, she is now moved by kindness and love, and he blew his introduction big time.

Anyway, I 100% agree with your main point that is, antis ignore a lot in order to maintain their "Sansa is shallow" belief, and the truth is, they have to do that to justify her ending up with their molester of choice. If she is shallow than they can insist she will end up with someone she isn't attracted to/who isn't attractive, and they can dismiss his bad behavior because the ending is necessary to show her character progression. Gross. As soon as you realize that all the poor girl wants now is safety and to be loved for herself, none of the pedos are options.

#ask dot #sansa stark #anti sansan #anti sanrion #anti petsa #anti littlefinger #anti pedoships #dot chat

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butterflies-dragons · 3 years

Text

Chopping off heads is a love language

Nothing says true love like decapitation

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa VI

* * *

“You are refusing to obey my order?” “You can stick your order up your bastard’s arse,” said Slynt, his jowls quivering. […] “As you will.” Jon nodded to Iron Emmett. “Please take Lord Janos to the Wall—” […] “—and hang him,” Jon finished. […] This is wrong, Jon thought. “Stop.” […] “I will not hang him,” said Jon. “Bring him here.” “Oh, Seven save us,” he heard Bowen Marsh cry out. The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, “Edd, fetch me a block,” and unsheathed Longclaw. […] The pale morning sunlight ran up and down his blade as Jon clasped the hilt of the bastard sword with both hands and raised it high. “If you have any last words, now is the time to speak them,” he said, expecting one last curse. Janos Slynt twisted his neck around to stare up at him. “Please, my lord. Mercy. I’ll … I’ll go, I will, I …” No, thought Jon. You closed that door. Longclaw descended. “Can I have his boots?” asked Owen the Oaf, as Janos Slynt’s head went rolling across the muddy ground. “They’re almost new, those boots. Lined with fur.”

—A Dance with Dragons - Jon II

As you can see from the two famous quotes above, Sansa wished for a hero to cut off Janos Slynt’s ugly head as punishment for his participation in Ned’s death, and four books later Jon Snow beheaded Janos Slynt using his sword Longclaw, honoring the Stark way, to avenge Ned’s death.

You might think that only shippers would think that beheadings are romantic, but did you know that, in universe, “heroes chopping off heads” actually has romantic connotations?

Because, believe it or not, inside the A Song of Ice and Fire Universe, chopping off heads is a love language. Let’s see:

One of the Mountain’s men had tried to rape the girl at Harrenhal, and had seemed honestly perplexed when Jaime commanded Ilyn Payne to take his head off. “I had her before, a hunnerd times,” he kept saying as they forced him to his knees. “A hunnerd times, m'lord. We all had her.” When Ser Ilyn presented Pia with his head, she had smiled through her ruined teeth.

[…] “Ser Harwyn says those tales are lies.” Lady Amerei wound a braid around her finger. “He has promised me Lord Beric’s head. He’s very gallant.” She was blushing beneath her tears.

Jaime thought back on the head he’d given to Pia. He could almost hear his little brother chuckle. Whatever became of giving women flowers? Tyrion might have asked.

—A Feast for Crows - Jaime IV

Credits to this clever anon.

But these two examples from Jaime’s A Feast for Crows fourth chapter aren’t the only ones. The most romantics examples are brought to us by the flamboyant Tyroshi, Daario Naharis:

“Khaleesi,” he cried, “I bring gifts and glad tidings. The Stormcrows are yours.” A golden tooth gleamed in his mouth when he smiled. “And so is Daario Naharis!”

Dany was dubious. If this Tyroshi had come to spy, this declaration might be no more than a desperate plot to save his head. “What do Prendahl na Ghezn and Sallor say of this?”

“Little.” Daario upended the sack, and the heads of Sallor the Bald and Prendahl na Ghezn spilled out upon her carpets. “My gifts to the dragon queen.”

[…] “Why?”

“Because you are so beautiful.”

[…] “Draw your sword and swear it to my service.”

In a blink, Daario’s arakh was free of its sheath. His submission was as outrageous as the rest of him, a great swoop that brought his face down to her toes. “My sword is yours. My life is yours. My love is yours. My blood, my body, my songs, you own them all. I live and die at your command, fair queen.”

—A Storm of Swords - Daenerys IV

* * *

The Tyroshi sellsword was not a good man, no one needed to tell her that. Under the smiles and the jests he was dangerous, even cruel. Sallor and Prendahl had woken one morning as his partners; that very night he’d given her their heads.

—A Storm of Swords - Daenerys V

* * *

Strong Belwas seized Ser Jorah by the arm and dragged him out. When Dany glanced back, the knight was walking as if drunk, stumbling and slow.

[…] “You need not even say the word, my radiance. Only give the tiniest nod, and your Daario shall fetch you back his ugly head.”

—A Storm of Swords - Daenerys VI

* * *

On the road to Yunkai, when Daario tossed the heads of Sallor the Bald and Prendahl na Ghezn at her feet, her children made a feast of them.

—A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys II

* * *

“Kill them all and take their treasures, I say. Whisper the command, and your Daario will make you a pile of their heads taller than this pyramid.” “If I knew who they were—”

—A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IV

* * *

Other nights she tossed in her bed, imagining that he’d betrayed her, as he had once betrayed his fellow captains in the Stormcrows. He brought me their heads.

—A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys V

* * *

“Marry me, and we can have all the nights forever.”

If I could, I would. Khal Drogo had been her sun-and-stars, but he had been dead so long that Daenerys had almost forgotten how it felt to love and be loved. Daario had helped her to remember. I was dead and he brought me back to life. I was asleep and he woke me. My brave captain. Even so, of late he grew too bold. On the day that he returned from his latest sortie, he had tossed the head of a Yunkish lord at her feet and kissed her in the hall for all the world to see, until Barristan Selmy pulled the two of them apart. Ser Grandfather had been so wroth that Dany feared blood might be shed. “We cannot wed, my love. You know why.”

—A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VII

Credits to this clever anon. And to this one and to @chispas-and-broken-bindings for this compilation.

See? Nothing says true love like decapitation (credits to themiddleliddle for the tag).

Jon Snow doesn’t know he’s made a maiden’s wish come true, Sansa doesn’t know that Jon has became the hero she wished for. And their mutual ignorance of each other’s actions and wishes is what makes the execution of Janos Slynt truly romantic.

And something tells me that Sansa’s reaction when she find’s out that Jon Snow chopped off Janos’s ugly head won’t be different from Pia’s smile or Lady Amerei’s blushing or Dany’s bold passion and public exhibition of affection.

Only in the World of Ice and Fire you can build romance with beheadings and stuff [wink to @riahchan].

More about Jon/Sansa and Janos Slynt here:

Jon Snow: The silent, unknown and unthought answer to Sansa’s hopes

Jon Snow: The silent, unknown and unthought answer to Sansa’s hopes 2.0

Sansa: There are no heroes / Jon: Hold my beer

GRRM and Janos Slynt’s execution

Jon, Sansa and courtesies

Janos Memes

* * *

Excerpt from this post: Sansa Stark & Beheadings

#sansa stark #jon snow #sansa x jon #jon x sansa #jonsa #janos slynt #jaime lannister #daaro naharis

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