GAME OF THRONES 2.02, The Night Lands

The scene when Janos Slynt and Alliser Thorne arrive at the Night's Watch and have a beef with the teen who lead the defense on the Wall will never stop being funny to me. Especially since, Jon gets his chance to let his sassiness to shine! Because he gets two idiotic superiors in the price of one. And ofc boy is roasting them right in front of their face ( and Janos is too idiotic to even notice that)

The Curse of Harrenhal: a Secret Sansa™ exclusive game for @harrenhals

“I dreamed of Bran,” Sansa had whispered to him. “I saw him smiling”

Sansa sat up. “Lady,” she whispered. For a moment it was as if the direwolf was there in the room, looking at her with those golden eyes, sad and knowing. She had been dreaming, she realized. Lady was with her, and they were running together, and... and... trying to remember was like trying to catch the rain with her fingers. The dream faded, and Lady was dead again

If she went to him and pleaded for mercy, she was certain he'd listen. He had to listen, he loved her, even the queen said so. Joff would need to punish Father, the lords would expect it, but perhaps he could send him back to Winterfell, or exile him to one of the Free Cities across the narrow sea. It would only have to be for a few years. By then she and Joffrey would be married. Once she was queen, she could persuade Joff to bring Father back and grant him a pardon

Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head

He'd owned a sword named Lion's Tooth, once, Sansa remembered. Arya had taken it from him and thrown it in a river. I hope Stannis does the same with this one. “It is beautifully wrought, Your Grace.”

That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so...

In Sansa's dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya

She had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half brother, but still... with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh it would be so sweet, to see him once again

Sansa Month 2023 : day five - hopes and dreams

Tyrion Lannister Appreciation Month

Day 5: Political Arc / Hand of the King 

Janos Slynt's Powerful Friends

so janos' "powerful friends" are pretty much a joke meant to show what a blustering oaf his character is, right? but theres also an undercurrent of something deeper beneath. because before hes executed by jon he says this:

“No,” Slynt cried, as Emmett half-shoved and halfpulled him across the yard. “Unhand me ... you cannot ... when Tywin Lannister hears of this, you will all rue—”

so we know exactly who his 'friends' are. but why does he put so much faith in tywin, half a realm away? and what exactly are he and allister thorne plotting, that jon is so afraid of the two of them?

lets take a look at alliser's part in the scene again.

“Lord Janos,” Jon said, “I will give you one last chance. Put down that spoon and get to the stables. I have had your horse saddled and bridled. It is a long, hard road to Greyguard.” “Then you had best be on your way, boy.” Slynt laughed, dribbling porridge down his chest. “Greyguard’s a good place for the likes of you, I’m thinking. Well away from decent godly folk. The mark of the beast is on you, bastard.” “You are refusing to obey my order?” “You can stick your order up your bastard’s arse,” said Slynt, his jowls quivering. Alliser Thorne smiled a thin smile, his black eyes fixed on Jon. At another table, Godry the Giantslayer began to laugh. “As you will.” Jon nodded to Iron Emmett. “Please take Lord Janos to the Wall—” —and confine him to an ice cell, he might have said. A day or ten cramped up inside the ice would leave him shivering and feverish and begging for release, Jon did not doubt. And the moment he is out, he and Thorne will begin to plot again. —and tie him to his horse, he might have said. If Slynt did not wish to go to Greyguard as its commander, he could go as its cook. It will only be a matter of time until he deserts, then. And how many others will he take with him? “—and hang him,” Jon finished. Janos Slynt’s face went as white as milk. The spoon slipped from his fingers. Edd and Emmett crossed the room, their footsteps ringing on the stone floor. Bowen Marsh’s mouth opened and closed though no words came out. Ser Alliser Thorne reached for his sword hilt. Go on, Jon thought. Longclaw was slung across his back. Show your steel. Give me cause to do the same. Half the men in the hall were on their feet. Southron knights and men-at-arms, loyal to King Stannis or the red woman or both, and Sworn Brothers of the Night’s Watch. Some had chosen Jon to be their lord commander. Others had cast their stones for Bowen Marsh, Ser Denys Mallister, Cotter Pyke ... and some for Janos Slynt. Hundreds of them, as I recall. Jon wondered how many of those men were in the cellar right now. For a moment the world balanced on a sword’s edge. Alliser Thorne took his hand from his sword and stepped aside to let Edd Tollett pass. —A Dance with Dragons

we see alliser considering open rebellion to jons order, but thinking better of it. clearly theres a close alliance between the two of them, with common enmity against jon snow. on my first read i didnt spend too much time thinking of alliser and janos other than generally occupying the "antagonist" role in jons chapters. but i think theres so much more going on here.

The sound of voices echoing off the vaulted ceiling brought him back to Castle Black. “I don’t know,” a man was saying, in a voice thick with doubts. “Maybe if I knew the man better . . . Lord Stannis didn’t have much good to say of him, I’ll tell you that.” “When has Stannis Baratheon ever had much good to say of anyone?” Ser Alliser’s flinty voice was unmistakable. “If we let Stannis choose our Lord Commander, we become his bannermen in all but name. Tywin Lannister is not like to forget that, and you know it will be Lord Tywin who wins in the end. He’s already beaten Stannis once, on the Blackwater.” “Lord Tywin favors Slynt,” said Bowen Marsh, in a fretful, anxious voice. “I can show you his letter, Othell. ‘Our faithful friend and servant,’ he called him.” Jon Snow sat up suddenly, and the three men froze at the sound of the slosh. “My lords,” he said with cold courtesy. “What are you doing here, bastard?” Thorne asked. “Bathing. But don’t let me spoil your plotting.” Jon climbed from the water, dried, dressed, and left them to conspire. —A Storm of Swords

what is going on??

ok. so it seems like the senior members of the night's watch--othell yarwyck, bowen marsh, and alliser thorne in the scene above--are attempting to decide whether or not to put their support behind janos slynt in the vote for lord commander, in order to best navigate the future of the watch amidst the turmoil of the war of the five kings, and are considering their options between pissing off stannis or tywin. tywin is in active communication with men of the nights watch (!!) outside of the lord commander's knowledge (!!!) (not that there was one at this time). so it seems like alliser thorne's allegiance is ultimately to the preservation of the watch, but to achieve those goals he is allied with janos slynt, who is tywin's man. its interesting that alliser seems to be playing on the same side as tywin in all this, since tywin is the one who forced him to take the black after robert's rebellion. imo this is meant to show that alliser--despite being an asshole--is ultimately a man who puts his sense of duty first.

where does this leave us in our understanding of night watch politics? we know that there was backdooring, that tywin supported janos slynt for some some mysterious purpose to become lord commander, with othell bowen and alliser convincing each other to put their stones behind janos 'for the watch.' now we just have to figure out what tywin's goal is in all this. as far as i can tell theres two two possible explanations. either 1) he's swaying the watch to give him arms so he can secure the north 2) he's planning on assassinating jon snow to complete his campaign of exterminating the starks. for the second explanation we have to look no further than the red wedding, another major time tywin used "quills and ravens" to gain allies in the north who would win his battles for him, in the hopes of crushing ned stark's household. the first notion is a little subtler, because if theory #1 is correct it wouldnt be the only time in the series a lannister in kings landing schemed to assassinate jon snow

She let Lord Merryweather fill her cup once again. “Another problem has arisen on the Wall, however. The brothers of the Night’s Watch have taken leave of their wits and chosen Ned Stark’s bastard son to be their Lord Commander.” “Snow, the boy is called,” Pycelle said unhelpfully. “I glimpsed him once at Winterfell,” the queen said, “though the Starks did their best to hide him. He looks very like his father.” [...] “Snow shares Lord Eddard’s taste for treason too,” she said. “The father would have handed the realm to Stannis. The son has given him lands and castles.” [...] Qyburn leaned forward with a smile. “The Night’s Watch defends us all from snarks and grumkins. My lords, I say that we must help the brave black brothers.” Cersei gave him a sharp look. “What are you saying?” “This,” Qyburn said. “For years now, the Night’s Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . .” “. . . to remove Jon Snow from the command,” Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. “That is just what we shall do.” She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father’s son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. “It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords.” This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration. “We have done good work today, my lords. I thank you. Is there aught else?” --Cersei, A Feast for Crows

cersei rightfully gets a bad rep in the fandom for making terrible decisions throughout feast, but people dont give her a lot of credit for being able to correctly pinpoint threats. the tyrells are a threat to lannister power bronn's loyalty to tyrion is a danger and jon's command of the nights watch is a thorn in her influence over the north. so in an attempt to lead like her father would, cersei plots to assassinate jon. maybe like cersei, tywin would have identified this threat too. only like his daughter, he would have been much subtler in his attempts to kill the lord commander, using key allies (like how he used the boltons and freys) as catspaws that receive most of the blame for the act itself.

this theory rly fits for me thematically because it parallels quite well with the Great Northern Conspiracy being cooked up by the stark loyalists down south, and because it interfaces nicely with the whole "nights watch takes no part" arc words jon struggles with throughout dance.

so in conclusion i think that janos' "powerful friends," although used to make a joke out of his character, also shows us that there were deeper things brewing beneath the surface of the nights watch

How do we separate killing from murder?

Not all kills are murder, obviously. I feel like we'd agree killing during a battle is not murder because both sides know what they're doing, but some cases are murkier:

1. When Jon Snow killed Janos Slynt. Don't get me wrong, I cheered, but could that be seen as murder? Jon didn't have to kill him. It wasn't even his first or second instinct

2. When Tyrion Lannister killed Tywin (again, I cheered), but Tyrion could have just left the castle and he caught Tywin unarmed and unguarded.

3. Even with Aerys Targaryen and Jaime. Given that we know the circumstances of it, is it murder? Even if Aerys had a sword, he doesn't have a prayer to defend himself against Jaime

Like where is the line? Or is there one even?

Jon Snow executed Janos Slynt for insubordination, which is a problem in a military organization, especially one that has such a shortage of manpower. Definitely not murder.

It was definitely a murder. Tywin wasn't threatening Tyrion.

Given that Aerys had openly ordered the execution of half a million civilians, it could be construed that Jaime was acting in both self-defense and the defense of other innocent people to ensure that other pyromancers didn't carry out Aerys's murderous orders.

As always, it depends on the context. Of course, the reasons for legal executions are always a matter of the society that lives in them - our own conceptions of just killing differ from country to country, legal system to legal system, and time period to time period. The easiest way to distinguish killing from murder is intent and justification.

Almost all societies recognize the right to self-defense (save in the pursuit of another crime - after you start a firefight you're still responsible even if you take people down who are trying to take you down). In societies with corporal punishment, some crimes warrant the death penalty, which would make them not really murder (unless you hold the opinion that no crime is serious enough to warrant execution). Militaries typically punish insubordination quite harshly (along with desertion), because it impacts good order, discipline, and unit cohesion.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

I always find it surprising that Jon Arryn being a strong Hand of the King is a popular opinion. Jon Arryn is one of the worst political players of Ned's generation or maybe in any generation of Westeros, IMO.

Okay, I understand that it's politically expedient to ally with house Lannister after Robert's Rebellion. However, why didn't the Hand of the King keep an eye on the Lannisters and try to mitigate their political power in KL. Under Jon, Cersei becomes Queen, the KG who broke his oaths and literally backstabbed the previous king is made Kingsguard again - that's already two Lannisters close to the King. Tywin keeps lending more and more money to the city making it in debt to him. Considering that House Lannister won KL through treachery - wouldn't it be wise to keep a check on them?

Janos Slynt. How is it that Jon Arryn keeps selecting the worst people? It's Jon who promotes Janos to the position of Lord Commander. Stannis spends hardly any time in KL and yet he believes Jon Snow over Janos Slynt because as he says he 'Knows Janos Slynt'. That's how obviously terrible Slynt is and we see how terrible he is whenever he shows up. And yet Arryn makes him LC of the gold cloaks. By the time Jon Arryn decides to remove him, it's too late. 

Littlefinger. Who is it that appoints LF to the small council as master of coin? You guessed right! It's Jon Arryn again! And even if it was Lysa who convinced him to hire LF, it's not like Arryn didn't know Littlefinger himself - LF was in charge of customs at Gulltown and Arryn would have interacted with him. Tyrion Lannister thinks of him as a dangerous man. And under Littlefinger, the crown starts losing more and more money. And it looks like Arryn didn’t do anything about this. 

Lysa. There's of course a moral failing here, with Arryn's marriage to a girl young enough to be his daughter in return for Tully support in the rebellion. However, the fact that he didn't perceive or care enough about her unhappiness and emotional state or figure out her relationship with Littlefinger also informs on his detachment from his family. As we see over the course of the books, Lysa Arryn is not particularly smart. She's easily manipulated and impulsive and the fact that she managed to not raise any suspicions in Jon Arryn about what was happening to him is telling.

Think about it. Who were the people responsible for Ned Stark’s downfall? Lysa writes to Catelyn telling her of a conspiracy brewing in KL and this is what provides the impetus for Catelyn convincing Ned to accept Robert’s offer.

It was LF and Lysa who were poisoning Jon setting off the whole cascade of events. It was the discovery of Cersei and Jaime’s incestuous adultery that leads to Ned’s arrest. It was because of Cersei, Littlefinger and Janos Slynt that Ned’s plans fail. Littlefinger, Cersei, Jaime, Lysa and Janos - all put there by Jon Arryn. Jon Arryn unwittingly build the nest of vipers that Ned Stark found himself in.

And yeah, we can criticize Ned for not figuring out Littlefinger and Cersei and Slynt etc. However, he only knew them for months. Jon Arryn knew them for years!

And that’s not even getting into the morality of his actions. The condoning of what was done to Elia and her babies by rewarding Tywin Lannister. As high as honor? More like as low as dirt. Robert’s reign started with the murder of babies.

On the whole, Jon Arryn comes across as a poor politician who was manipulated and maneuvered and in over his head as Hand of the King to Robert Baratheon. An useless king and a poor Hand lead to the pressure cooker situation of KL that ended up exploding when Ned Stark got there. There was really not much maneuvering Ned could do considering all the pieces that his mentor Jon Arryn had moved into place - from there it was a very quick move to a checkmate.

Slynt's neck was purpling. "Lies, all lies! A strong man makes enemies, Your Grace knows that, they whisper lies behind your back. Naught was ever proven, not a man came forward . . ." Samwell Page 1076

All of the candidates for the Lord Commander of the watch, gather in Stan’s solar to plead Stanis admonishes them to stop wasting his time on the election of the Lord Commander. Janos Slynt tries to sell himself as the best candidate for the job based on his leadership of the gold cloaks, seemingly forgetting Stannis's contempt for him. In a matter of minutes, he’s accusing all of the things that Stanis has to say about him as lies.

I assumed that this solar was the same room where Lord Mormont entertained Tyrion in Game of Thrones. To show this I put included a small bit of the same tapestry.

"If you have any last words, now is the time to speak them," he said, expecting one last curse.

Janos Slynt twisted his neck around to stare up at him. "Please my lord. Mercy. I'll....I'll go, I will, I...."

No, thought Jon. You closed that door. Longclaw descended.

"Can I have his boots?" Asked Owen the Oaf, as Janos Slynt's head went across the muddy ground. "They're almost new, those boots. Lined with fur."

Jon glanced back at Stannis. For an instant their eyes met then the king nodded and went back inside his tower.

-A Dance With Dragons

I know "fetch me a block" is a great line, but theres also something cathartic about Janos acting all huffy going

"If the boy thinks he can frighten me hes mistaken, yes, very mistaken."

Only to cut to a new angle, and get punched in the ears by the sound design boosting the fuck out of the bass, as the block gets suddenly slammed down onto the platform as the camera then refocuses back to Janos in the same shot, now stopping terrified in the background.

Towards the end of ASOS:

very excited to get to the part where jon executes janos slynt 🥰

the full circle of it. ned stark’s blood standing over slynt as he’s on the block the way slynt did to ned on the steps of the great sept

poetic cinema

Sansa Stark's Wishes: A hero to cut off Janos Slynt's head.

I've tweeted before about long traditions of religious tolerance in Westerosi society (something they actually share with both Valyria and many of the Free Cities) and it's true but there's a couple of things I want to add after reading more.

First is that religious tolerance in the Iron Islands declined after Greyjoy's Rebellion. This is referenced a few times. Asha remembers "The woman was so old that a septon had once said she must have nursed the Crone. That was when the Faith was still tolerated on the isles." On the other hand, character like Baelor Blacktyde are able to openly display their faith so it looks like the Faith of the Seven is not tolerated as an institution (septs closed, septons expelled) but it's permitted in term of individuals' beliefs.

The other is the War of the Five Kings has led to its decline in the South (ie in Lannister territory/the Crownlands/the middle really). It's less pronounced than the Iron Islands (let alone Melisandre being literally the worst) but you start to see increasing bigotry towards the Old Faith (and even ethnic bigotry towards the First Men). This is particularly pronounced when Janos Slynt turns up at the wall and uses it to attack Jon in his not-quite-a-trial but the Cersei etc make comments about it too. One of the Sparrows' main things is "demon worship" and Cersei latches onto that and says the Old Gods and R'hllor are demons. Tbh idk if that's what the Sparrows actually mean but they don't seem to complain so kinda makes sense tbh.