@gatorgenny asked (edited for length):
Generally speaking Donal Noye seems to be placed as a trustworthy voice by the author, and his role mainly seems to be giving Jon good advice (and yet more fuel for his whopper of a father figure complex)
But... Isn't he just wrong on like 2/3? Even if you ignore the fact that he's passing lifelong judgements on people who he hasn't seen for almost half their life (or more since Renly was like 5!) Robert's basically a bro-y jackass before then too. Charismatic? Yes! Strong? Yes! Smells good enough that Ned's still thinking about it more than a dozen years later? Yes! But Renly's got most of those strengths too, and is only a little more hollow, and as far as morality, Robert's tacit encouragement of the murder of children is already on the books.
[...]
I'm just having trouble squaring this circle. Donal is presented so strongly as a wise mentor, and Jon doesn't have a later moment of reconsidering that advice or anything else Donal meant to him (that I can remember)
I agree that Donal Noye is placed as a trustworthy voice by the author, even allowing for the usual Westerosi biases (patriarchy etc).
But I do disagree that he got Robert wrong. I think a large point of Robert's character is that he did have the potential to be a great king. That charisma is not something that can be written off. Robert used that in wars to get people to side with him. Robert appears to have far better martial chops than Renly ever did, not just in personal combat, but also at least reasonably capable in command himself. Robert had everything going for him...and he went to rust. Fast.
Plus there's the usual thing that the author wants us to think about: is a good king in a bad social system really good?
As for Stannis, Donal Noye is talking ACoK!Stannis. As you say, he's got no way of knowing the character development Stannis has been through over ASoS. While it might be a good idea for Jon to form his own opinions, it doesn't make Donal Noye wrong - and even if Jon concludes that Stannis is more flexible than initially thought, 'more flexible than cast iron' is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Jon can also see that there are things Stannis doesn't bend on. It can still be a useful character assessment even if it's outdated.
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jon stannis and edd’s miserable asses on the wall together how did it not collapse from the sheer woefulness emanating off them all
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Them beautiful eyes 😍
@xionthelostpuppet
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robert era westeros dashboard simulation
🫁 maidenless
JON ARRYN DEAD 🦀🦀🦀
🐉 rhaegarsvalyria—deactivated
imagine you are lost targaryen princess danaerys marrying your dear brother, prince viserys targaryen 🤍👰🏼♀️
📜 citadelscribe
deactivated… king robert got them
🐺 starkupdates
if you don’t speak politics ned’s basically saying ‘not this time, cunt - papa wolf ned isn’t letting you fuck with his pack. while we’re at it, you’re a terrible jouster, bitch!’ to jaime lannister. who else is doing it like him!!
🥘 bowlofbrown
crying at this they’re both lords they DO NOT care if you live or die. what’s wrong with you people
🌞 bowedbentbroken
aren’t their families literally intermarrying
🪵 riverlandspussy
serfs would stan a dog if it was landed
🐊 lizardlion
bracken dick would be good if they didn’t talk about how much better they fuck than the blackwoods the entire time
🌳 oldegodluvrr
why house blackwood stays 🔛🔝
🗝 livesbythefingers
i have terrible news about what blackwoods also talk about during sex
🔥 melisandre
the red represents projected support for STANNIS BARATHEON - king robert’s once and future HEIR
🦑 saltmalewife
shitting myself at this
🐦 muttonmouthed
stannis there’s doubts near the bloody gate watch out !!
💘 luckylikestcriston
🎭 silkyourstreet
every so often someone accidentally reinvents the fourth council of baelor
🦀 celtigwhore
how is crone not sweeping do you people hate women
🫁 maidenless
JON ARRYN STILL DEAD 🦀🦀🦀
🐴 littlestfrey
why are we celebrating? what did he do? /gen
📜 citadelscribe
known cuckold
🌞 bowedbentbroken
do you think littlefinger and varys ever no i shan’t say
🪸 patchpatchpatchface
on earth, the lords eat roast, and the peasants gruel !! in hell, the lords eat gruel, and the peasants roast !!
🪨 dragonstoner
another patchface banger
🦑 saltmalewife
the man cannot miss
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grrm said that only nobles have their heads cut off as a sign of respect and lowborns are hanged but when stannis is constantly threatening to execute jon (a lowborn) he threatens him with beheading proving that his murderous threats are a sign of affection bc jon is his favorite son he never had, his little rascal, his angel face smoochie bear, one could even consider jon to be, his special boy. heightened only by the fact that jon is his closest living male relative. that’s uncle stannis (cousins. but that’s not as fun to say) i could even tell you that jon is his true lawful heir but that might make a lot of you throw up and die
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The time has finally come…
From the amazing talents of 32 individual artists, I’m bring you…
A TAROT OF ICE AND FIRE
Cover art: mkur_art (Instagram)
Patchface: @samiligia
The dragon eggs: @mursartifice
Melisandre: @wweskywalker
The conquerors: @fkaluis
Bran Stark: Dr3adLady (twitter)
Jon & Daenerys: @toadpeee
Drogon, Viserion & Rhaegal: ilona_vvww (twitter)
Brienne of Tarth: taliesart (twitter & Instagram)
Stannis Baratheon: oynon (Instagram) & @toadpeee
Geroge R. R. Martin: @toadpeee
Ned Stark: ilona_vvww (instagram)
Tyrion Lannister: pulksten (twitter)
Lyanna Stark: @polluxxxart
Rickon Stark: @jimmymmtz
Arya Stark: @arte072
Sansa Stark: Sansapilled (twitter)
Olenna Tyrell: highgardenart (twitter)
The World: @toadpeee
Jorah & Daario: @jimmymmtz
Missandei: @reynyra
Oberyn Martell: mrm215555 (twitter)
Podrick Payne: @wodania
Renly Baratheon: @wodania
Robert Baratheon: @laurellerual
Catlyn Stark: Sali_alenn (twitter)
Tywin Lannister: @cyareaxes
Samwell Tarly: @laurellerual
Greyworm: @shikadraws
Rhaegar: @faeporcelain
Margaery Tyrell: highgardenart (twitter)
Jon Snow: Nataa_draws (instagram)
Robb Stark: rozesdoesart (instagram)
Tommen Baratheon: @francy-sketches
Varys: Alorescott (twitter)
Jaime Lannister: talisart (twitter)
Joffrey Baratheon: mrm_215555 (twitter)
Sandor Clegane: @banadraw
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“Lord Eddard was no friend to me, but he was not without some sense. He would have given me these castles.
Never. “I cannot speak to what my father might have done. I took an oath, Your Grace. The Wall is mine.”
Because Stannis & Jon’s interactions remain some of my favorites.
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stannis is the general manager of the world's worst olive garden. davos is his favorite assistant manager and sometimes stannis takes him into the walk-in and licks the stumps of his fingers in a normal way. jon is his least favorite but he runs that shit like the navy which stannis respects except he's literally held jon down before to wipe the eyeliner off of his face because he hates emos. jon cries in the walk-in. after the fingersucking. oh also it's important that you know in this au stannis did still cut off davos's fingers himself and that's not like normal they're just fucking crazy. the pasta at this place sucks shit.
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Stannis: Why did my brothers, The Party Kings, inspire so much love and loyalty while I, Guy Who Let’s A Witch Set People on Fire-
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sorry that you view stannis as a chad- sigmamale-based-womanfucker. you're really missing out on the real stannis 'autistic eldest daughter middle child repressed gay accountant girlson-failure' baratheon
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A tale they said was TOO SHOCKING for the screen.
Ladies and gentlefolk, American International Pictures presents the CINEMATIC EVENT of 1961:
A SONG of ICE and FIRE!
A Roger Corman production. Music by Albert Glasser.
Starring... well, you'll see. (Will this be a "good" movie? Absolutely not. Will costumes and hairstyles be woefully anachronistic? For sure. Will many casting choices be questionable? Indeed. Will major plot points be changed to comply with the morality clauses of the Hayes Code? You betcha!)
Starring
RICHARD CARLSON as EDDARD STARK - an HONORABLE man caught in a WEB of political intrigue!
MARIE WINDSOR as CATELYN STARK - the mother who will do ANYTHING to protect her own!
COLEEN GRAY as CERSEI LANNISTER - the BEAUTIFUL QUEEN with a TERRIBLE SECRET!
JOHN AGAR as JAIME LANNISTER - the DASHING SWORDSMAN who SHOULDN'T be TRUSTED!
MICHAEL DUNN as TYRION LANNISTER - the HALF MAN with BIG APPETITES!
BASIL RATHBONE as Tywin Lannister - the STRATEGIST with a HEART of ICE!
RAYMOND BURR as ROBERT BARATHEON - the king who LOVED WINE - almost as much as he LOVED WOMEN!
JUNE KENNEY as DAENERYS TARGARYEN - the PRINCESS from an EXOTIC LAND!
ROBERT REED as RENLY BARATHEON - the HANDSOME KING all of Westeros WANTED!
GLENN LANGAN as STANNIS BARATHEON - the HEIR who WOULDN'T BACK DOWN!
ALLISON HAYES as MELISANDRE - the sultry RED WOMAN no king could deny!
With...
ANTHONY DEXTER as the SCHEMING Petyr Baelish!
LON CHANEY JR as the TERRIFYING Sandor Clegane!
and TOR JOHNSON as THE BROTHER who MADE him a MONSTER!
...And Introducing...
MICHAEL LANDON as JON SNOW - a TORTURED SOUL at the EDGE of the WORLD!
JOHN ASHLEY as ROBB STARK - the BOY KING marching to his DOOM!
DOLORES FAITH as SANSA STARK - the fair princess TRAPPED by a WICKED queen!
DAWN BENDER as ARYA STARK - a LITTLE GIRL with LOTS OF FIGHT!
and newcomer JACK NICHOLSON as THEON GREYJOY - the rogue who HIDES behind a SMILE!
THE INTRIGUE
THE SUSPENSE
The Song of Ice and Fire!
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stannis victim of misogyny untenably real
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