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#sequels
animentality · 1 year
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prokopetz · 1 month
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If I ever got to write the script for a sequel to a popular open-world video game I would go out of my way to establish that the canon outcome of the previous game was something no normal player would ever think to do. Not anything impossible within the established framework of play, not a too-clever "all outcomes are true at once" sleight of hand – merely a very unlikely sequence of events. Like, you know the people who speedrun Disco Elysium with the explicit goal of simultaneously maxing out their political alignment in both Communism and Hypercapitalism in the same playthrough? The canon player character is That Guy.
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w1ldspace · 5 months
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iii. the king, finn
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blcodyhell · 1 month
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Random Rey Skywalker moments: 134/?
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mformarsala · 4 months
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hux was perfectly positioned to be THE villain of the story and to show how an ordinary man can be much scarier than a force wielder but NO
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hjbender · 2 months
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*Implying that the total number of works will only ever be two.
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physalian · 14 days
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8 Signs your Sequel Needs Work
Sequels, and followup seasons to TV shows, can be very tricky to get right. Most of the time, especially with the onslaught of sequels, remakes, and remake-quels over the past… 15 years? There’s a few stand-outs for sure. I hear Dune Part 2 stuck the landing. Everyone who likes John Wick also likes those sequels. Spiderverse 2 also stuck the landing.
These are less tips and more fundamental pieces of your story that may or may not factor in because every work is different, and this is coming from an audience’s perspective. Maybe some of these will be the flaws you just couldn’t put your finger on before. And, of course, these are all my opinions, for sequels and later seasons that just didn’t work for me.
1. Your vague lore becomes a gimmick
The Force, this mysterious entity that needs no further explanation… is now quantifiable with midichlorians.
In The 100, the little chip that contains the “reincarnation” of the Commanders is now the central plot to their season 6 “invasion of the bodysnatchers” villains.
In The Vampire Diaries, the existence of the “emotion switch” is explicitly disputed as even existing in the earlier seasons, then becomes a very real and physical plot point one can toggle on and off.
I love hard magic systems. I love soft magic systems, too. These two are not evolutions of each other and doing so will ruin your magic system. People fell in love with the hard magic because they liked the rules, the rules made sense, and everything you wrote fit within those rules. Don’t get wacky and suddenly start inventing new rules that break your old ones.
People fell in love with the soft magic because it needed no rules, the magic made sense without overtaking the story or creating plot holes for why it didn’t just save the day. Don’t give your audience everything they never needed to know and impose limitations that didn’t need to be there.
Solving the mystery will never be as satisfying as whatever the reader came up with in their mind. Satisfaction is the death of desire.
2. The established theme becomes un-established
I talked about this point already in this post about theme so the abridged version here: If your story has major themes you’ve set out to explore, like “the dichotomy of good and evil” and you abandon that theme either for a contradictory one, or no theme at all, your sequel will feel less polished and meaningful than its predecessor, because the new story doesn’t have as much (if anything) to say, while the original did.
Jurassic Park is a fantastic, stellar example. First movie is about the folly of human arrogance and the inherent disaster and hubris in thinking one can control forces of nature for superficial gains. The sequels, and then sequel series, never returns to this theme (and also stops remembering that dinosaurs are animals, not generic movie monsters). JP wasn’t just scary because ahhh big scary reptiles. JP was scary because the story is an easily preventable tragedy, and yes the dinosaurs are eating people, but the people only have other people to blame. Dinosaurs are just hungry, frightened animals.
Or, the most obvious example in Pixar’s history: Cars to Cars 2.
3. You focus on the wrong elements based on ‘fan feedback’
We love fans. Fans make us money. Fans do not know what they want out of a sequel. Fans will never know what they want out of a sequel, nor will studios know how to interpret those wants. Ask Star Wars. Heck, ask the last 8 books out of the Percy Jackson universe.
Going back to Cars 2 (and why I loathe the concept of comedic relief characters, truly), Disney saw dollar signs with how popular Mater was, so, logically, they gave fans more Mater. They gave us more car gimmicks, they expanded the lore that no one asked for. They did try to give us new pretty racing venues and new cool characters. The writers really did try, but some random Suit decided a car spy thriller was better and this is what we got.
The elements your sequel focuses on could be points 1 or 2, based on reception. If your audience universally hates a character for legitimate reasons, maybe listen, but if your audience is at war with itself over superficial BS like whether or not she’s a female character, or POC, ignore them and write the character you set out to write. Maybe their arc wasn’t finished yet, and they had a really cool story that never got told.
This could be side-characters, or a specific location/pocket of worldbuilding that really resonated, a romantic subplot, whatever. Point is, careening off your plan without considering the consequences doesn’t usually end well.
4. You don’t focus on the ‘right’ elements
I don’t think anyone out there will happily sit down and enjoy the entirety of Thor: The Dark World.  The only reasons I would watch that movie now are because a couple of the jokes are funny, and the whole bit in the middle with Thor and Loki. Why wasn’t this the whole movie? No one cares about the lore, but people really loved Loki, especially when there wasn’t much about him in the MCU at the time, and taking a villain fresh off his big hit with the first Avengers and throwing him in a reluctant “enemy of my enemy” plot for this entire movie would have been amazing.
Loki also refuses to stay dead because he’s too popular, thus we get a cyclical and frustrating arc where he only has development when the producers demand so they can make maximum profit off his character, but back then, in phase 2 world, the mystery around Loki was what made him so compelling and the drama around those two on screen was really good! They bounced so well off each other, they both had very different strengths and perspectives, both had real grievances to air, and in that movie, they *both* lost their mother. It’s not even that it’s a bad sequel, it’s just a plain bad movie.
The movie exists to keep establishing the Infinity Stones with the red one and I can’t remember what the red one does at this point, but it could have so easily done both. The powers that be should have known their strongest elements were Thor and Loki and their relationship, and run with it.
This isn’t “give into the demands of fans who want more Loki” it’s being smart enough to look at your own work and suss out what you think the most intriguing elements are and which have the most room and potential to grow (and also test audiences and beta readers to tell you the ugly truth). Sequels should feel more like natural continuations of the original story, not shameless cash grabs.
5. You walk back character development for ~drama~
As in, characters who got together at the end of book 1 suddenly start fighting because the “will they/won’t they” was the juiciest dynamic of their relationship and you don’t know how to write a compelling, happy couple. Or a character who overcame their snobbery, cowardice, grizzled nature, or phobia suddenly has it again because, again, that was the most compelling part of their character and you don’t know who they are without it.
To be honest, yeah, the buildup of a relationship does tend to be more entertaining in media, but that’s also because solid, respectful, healthy relationships in media are a rarity. Season 1 of Outlander remains the best, in part because of the rapid growth of the main love interest’s relationship. Every season after, they’re already married, already together, and occasionally dealing with baby shenanigans, and it’s them against the world and, yeah, I got bored.
There’s just so much you can do with a freshly established relationship: Those two are a *team* now. The drama and intrigue no longer comes from them against each other, it’s them together against a new antagonist and their different approaches to solving a problem. They can and should still have distinct personalities and perspectives on whatever story you throw them into.
6. It’s the same exact story, just Bigger
I have been sitting on a “how to scale power” post for months now because I’m still not sure on reception but here’s a little bit on what I mean.
Original: Oh no, the big bad guy wants to destroy New York
Sequel: Oh no, the big bad guy wants to destroy the planet
Threequel: Oh no, the big bad guy wants to destroy the galaxy
You knew it wasn’t going to happen the first time, you absolutely know it won’t happen on a bigger scale. Usually, when this happens, plot holes abound. You end up deleting or forgetting about characters’ convenient powers and abilities, deleting or forgetting about established relationships and new ground gained with side characters and entities, and deleting or forgetting about stakes, themes, and actually growing your characters like this isn’t the exact same story, just Bigger.
How many Bond movies are there? Thirty-something? I know some are very, very good and some are not at all good. They’re all Bond movies. People keep watching them because they’re formulaic, but there’s also been seven Bond actors and the movies aren’t one long, continuous, self-referential story about this poor, poor man who has the worst luck in the universe. These sequels aren’t “this but bigger” it’s usually “this, but different”, which is almost always better.
“This, but different now” will demand a different skillset from your hero, different rules to play by, different expectations, and different stakes. It does not just demand your hero learn to punch harder.
Example: Lord Shen from Kung Fu Panda 2 does have more influence than Tai Lung, yes. He’s got a whole city and his backstory is further-reaching, but he’s objectively worse in close combat—so he doesn’t fistfight Po. He has cannons, very dangerous cannons, cannons designed to be so strong that kung fu doesn’t matter. Thus, he’s not necessarily “bigger” he’s just “different” and his whole story demands new perspective.
The differences between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are numerous, but the latter relies on “but bigger” and the former went in a whole new direction, while still staying faithful to the themes of the original.
7. It undermines the original by awakening a new problem too soon
I’ve already complained about the mere existence of Heroes of Olympus elsewhere because everything Luke fought and died for only bought that world about a month of peace before the gods came and ripped it all away for More Story.
I’ve also complained that the Star Wars Sequels were always going to spit in the face of a character’s six-movie legacy to bring balance to the Force by just going… nah. Ancient prophecy? Only bought us about 30 years of peace.
Whether it’s too soon, or it’s too closely related to the original, your audience is going to feel a little put-off when they realize how inconsequential this sequel makes the original, particularly in TV shows that run too many seasons and can’t keep upping the ante, like Supernatural.
Kung Fu Panda once again because these two movies are amazing. Shen is completely unrelated to Tai Lung. He’s not threatening the Valley of Peace or Shifu or Oogway or anything the heroes fought for in the original. He’s brand new.
My yearning to see these two on screen together to just watch them verbally spat over both being bratty children disappointed by their parents is unquantifiable. This movie is a damn near perfect sequel. Somebody write me fanfic with these two throwing hands over their drastically different perspectives on kung fu.
8. It’s so divorced from the original that it can barely even be called a sequel
Otherwise known as seasons 5 and 6 of Lost. Otherwise known as: This show was on a sci-fi trajectory and something catastrophic happened to cause a dramatic hairpin turn off that path and into pseudo-biblical territory. Why did it all end in a church? I’m not joking, they did actually abandon The Plan while in a mach 1 nosedive.
I also have a post I’ve been sitting on about how to handle faith in fiction, so I’ll say this: The premise of Lost was the trials and escapades of a group of 48 strangers trying to survive and find rescue off a mysterious island with some creepy, sciency shenanigans going on once they discover that the island isn’t actually uninhabited.
Season 6 is about finding “candidates” to replace the island’s Discount Jesus who serves as the ambassador-protector of the island, who is also immortal until he’s not, and the island becomes a kind of purgatory where they all actually did die in the crash and were just waiting to… die again and go to heaven. Spoiler Alert.
This is also otherwise known as: Oh sh*t, Warner Bros wants more Supernatural? But we wrapped it up so nicely with Sam and Adam in the box with Lucifer. I tried to watch one of those YouTube compilations of Cas’ funny moments because I haven’t seen every episode, and the misery on these actors’ faces as the compilation advanced through the seasons, all the joy and wit sucked from their performances, was just tragic.
I get it. Writers can’t control when the Powers That Be demand More Story so they can run their workhorse into the ground until it stops bleeding money, but if you aren’t controlled by said powers, either take it all back to basics, like Cars 3, or just stop.
Sometimes taking your established characters and throwing them into a completely unrecognizable story works, but those unrecongizable stories work that much harder to at least keep the characters' development and progression satisfying and familiar. See this post about timeskips that take generational gaps between the original and the sequel, and still deliver on a satisfying continuation.
TLDR: Sequels are hard and it’s never just one detail that makes them difficult to pull off. They will always be compared to their predecessors, always with the expectations to be as good as or surpass the original, when the original had no such competition. There’s also audience expectations for how they think the story, lore, and relationships should progress. Most faults of sequels, in my opinion, lie in straying too far from the fundamentals of the original without understanding why those fundamentals were so important to the original’s success.
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artist-issues · 6 months
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"Rian Johnson was mocking Star Wars fans for expecting Star Wars tropes in TLJ!"
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No. Star Wars fans just happened to have the exact same flaw that the character, Rey, had: too much focus on her parents. That made her easy to relate to. But the whole point, down to the first movie she was introduced in (which WASN'T written by Rian Johnson) was that her parents were never important.
Star Wars fans should've expected that reveal. It was already set up. Maz literally tells Rey in the first movie to quit focusing so much on her parents. The filmmakers literally told you "she's wrong to put so much stock in who her parents are" in The Force Awakens. He just carried that theme on and y'all weren't ready for it because you never wanted to accept it in the first place.
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Same thing with Snoke. Kylo Ren was introduced as a character who only wants one thing: strength. He thinks that strength will solve his emotional frailty. He's insecure. (Because reasons, to do with his family and their lack of faith in him.) Rey straight-up discovers that his biggest fear is "never being as strong as Darth Vader" and says it out loud so that the audience will get it.
You really think, when he was introduced as a character who believes killing mentor-father-figures will make him feel stronger and therefore more secure, that Snoke ever had a chance of getting past the second movie alive?
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They straight-up introduced these characters with certain flaws, which lead to certain motives, which so happen to lead to different conclusions than common Star Wars fan theories.
Because that's the beauty of the Sequels. They acknowledge the legendary status of the Original Trilogy Tropes, then grow beyond those tropes.
Or at least. They were starting to. Until Star Wars fans threw continued hissy fits because they didn't want a story, they wanted a 💫 Star Wars Checklist Cleverly Disguised as a Story.💫
Then the powers-that-be were like "okay they're really not looking for a good story, just give 'em the checklist they were looking for." And you got exactly that in The Rise of Skywalker.
But Rian Johnson wasn't mocking you. He was just taking the next logical, compelling step in the previously-established arcs of well-written characters. And carrying on the Sequel's initial trademark of "appreciate the past by growing beyond it." Y'know. Like a good writer.
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wildwestzine · 7 months
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Yeehaw! Take a closer look at the bundles and our stretch goals we have in our shop! Preorders end November 20th!
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samaspic31 · 2 years
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It's so funny to me that Disney even managed to disappoint EVERYONE with the rise of Skywalker. Usually, displeasing a part of a fandom at least means another part is getting catered to. But the rise of Skywalker? Pissed off EVERYONE.
The bigoted fans were mad at the 2 second gay kiss and 2 black characters existing, the anti-racist fans were mad finn's sidelining was continued and rose barely on screen, the gay fans were mad at disney using the gay kiss for marketing while removing it in homophobic countries, and no finnpoe despite both actors and directors agreeing with the fandom that it made sense. The people who hated reylo were mad they kissed, the reylos were mad kylo died. The people who like good villains got palpatine AGAIN. The people who like cohesive stories got a mess of storylines barely holding together full of plot holes (remember that sith dagger in the shape of the death star wreckage?). Aside from lando and wedge, not even that many good cameos. The stakes felt meaningless, a whole planet blew up and nobody gave a fuck because.... it was riddled with criminals? I guess?? The people here just for action scenes didn't get anything extraordinary.
Astonishing how well it frustrated every fucking body no matter what you're watching star wars for
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machetelanding · 7 months
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glitchblack · 5 months
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Your son is gone. He was weak and foolish like his father, so I destroyed him.
ADAM DRIVER as KYLO REN in STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS
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prokopetz · 4 months
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Boring: Video game sequel establishes that the secret "true ending" with lots of fiddly unlocking criteria is what canonically happened.
Also boring: Video game sequel establishes that the unlockable secret ending is a counterfactual "what if" scenario and the standard ending is what canonically happened.
Not boring: Video game sequel establishes that the non-standard game over you receive if you somehow manage to die during the tutorial is what canonically happened.
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w1ldspace · 5 months
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soldier, poet, king.
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blcodyhell · 4 months
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Random Rey Skywalker moments: 123/?
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wronghands1 · 19 days
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