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fanstuffrantings · 2 months

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I have a question about your RWBY au: how would you handle teams facing consequences when making a big decision that backfires?

My problem with RWBY is that despite making choices that should had have consequences (telling government secrets to Robyn hill, pointing a gun at Whitney, agrus incident etc) the characters instead get rewarded for their actions.

What will you do differently?

I apologize because this got long and maybe veered a bit from the original question but here we go.

For a TL;DR: we need better world building, more apparent character flaws the narrative actively calls out, and villains to be dangerous

I think the main issue with why RWBY never had proper consequences, is that it largely operated (and still somewhat does) on rule of cool. Characters are powerful when the plot demands it in ways that kind of make the stakes feel nonexistent.

To properly implement consequences for characters we need to know what their flaws are and what they could get as punishment if those flaws aren't handled.

Our characters have some referenced flaws, but often times their flaws either never get checked because the writers don't view them as flaws needing to be fixed, or they're excused in canon. Bad things don't happen to them mainly because they mess up, they happen because bad people do bad things.

While pyrrha is the character I'm most annoyed about with the lack of depth, all of them are written to be cool and kind of flawless. So first step is I'd set up clear flaws from volume 1 and have them face consequences that will carry over long term. Here are some examples.

Ruby: For Ruby I feel like she tends to focus on handling things herself. She's incredibly self reliant to the point that she makes a lot of choices to do things solo that ultimately could get her killed. But the writers never go that far. She faces off against Cinder twice and leaves unscathed, if we're going to have her track Cinder to the tower, Ruby needs to leave wounded. Allowed to live because Cinder let her. Give her a scar that remains on her for the rest of the series. Maybe it's normally covered but it's a reminder of the dangers she faces. And even then we don't have to have her learn her lesson yet.

Yang is one where her consequences will effect the Atlas arc. Because I want her semblance to make her black out when she rages. Something she never focused on fixing because normally she could direct it before she blacks out so that the only person hurt is the one who caused the rage. Her teachers keep warning her of the damage she does to the area around her and how her black outs get longer the angrier she is. But she kind of waves it off because she's had this semblance for years and she knows how to deal with it.

However during the vytal festival when there are several competitions between schools and we build up a rivalry between team villain and team rwby we see her anger boiling. She's containing it and does a good job for a while, but the Mercury fight is the last straw. When she attacks Mercury its not just that she hits him once, in fact the villains new her rage made her black out and expected her to hit once. She downs him bad. She has to be restrained and the entire of remnant bears witness to her building rage culminating in her pummeling a kid from a different school. And when she attacks Adam that's once more her lashing out before thinking leading to her arm loss. When she travels she's met with wariness and fear because people know her as the girl that destroys.

Her six month hiatus is not just full of her wallowing over her arm, but angry over everything and raging out sporadically. I'd honestly give taiyang the same semblance as her being the one to help her train to properly control it. But the shadow of her actions won't disappear and people will try to exploit that weakness if she doesn't curb it.

For Blake it would be her being a traitor and running. RWY need their trust regained by her that she'll have to actively work towards doing so but it won't just be them. In Atlas Ironwood knows her past because he would've run checks on any people if interest and found her connection to Adam who was one of the people leading the attack on Beacon and subsequently also was the leader of a group that attacked Argus. Finding out she was a loyal follower of him almost her entire life means that she isn't let into the inner circle and in fact spends most of her stay in Atlas monitored and on probation. The group vouches for her but that can only pacify someone like Ironwood slightly.

For Weiss I'd have her actually be very loyal to authority figures in a way that often causes arguments between her team and her. In Atlas it would cause a major fight because if Yang were to spill secrets to Robyn, Weiss would probably avoid speaking to her for a decent amount of time. I think by that point she'd not outright tell Ironwood herself, but she would be furious at the disrespect. It would mean that more often than not, she's causing unnecessary disagreements in the group but it would also mean that she knows best how to handle people in places like Atlas.

Largely I'd just have a big focus on how dumb choices they make effect their relationships with people outside of the core group. Revealing secret information leads to Penny becoming very disappointed in them and a slight breakdown in the friendship. Potientially if Yang did it without talking to the others it now means Yang gets into a verbal fighting match with the rest of the gang because everything starts to go wrong.

Going off to fight things alone or not properly training means you get into situations that could maim or kill you. Trusting anyone too easily can result in someone dangerous entering your group with the intent to cause harm.

In general I'd really just focus on building flaws, turning down power levels at the start, and making the world and villains more dangerous. Also I think making each kingdom distinctly different in its politics and government could've helped make it so that the group trying to approach all situations the same backfires a lot. It's something I'd have to rewatch the show for to list specific instances of things I'd make consequences for but those are my current notes.

#ask #grooveguylove #rwde #rwby critical #rwby rewrite #molten rambles

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cal-adia · 2 years

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MAJOR spoilers for Nona the Ninth. It’s been 24 hours since I finished Nona, and I’m finally have coherent thoughts.

We know Nona’s personality resembled other people, but there’s quite a few references to her brain specifically.

I’m gonna add a lot of images but tl;dr there’s three souls inside Nona and evidence that Gideon’s soul is incomplete/fractured

Page 56 The references begin off handed and dismissible, but it still sounds like Gideon (doodling) and Harrow (asking questions)

Page 252 and Page 381 Later on, the references start to become more absurd (brains plural, entire brain in her forehead). In the first quote, it’s like knowledge is being pulled from multiple sources.

Now in the second quote, we have to remember Harrow’s lobotomy and how she messed with her prefrontal cortex (the part closest to the forehead) because that’s where Gideon was. So when Nona is in need of endurance and agility (cavalier stuff), she’s unconsciously calling on Gideon.

Page 413 I included this whole section because it’s important for context. This happens after Nona was on top of the truck and Pyrrha tried calling her Alecto.

The whole book, by way of Alecto’s memories, John is telling Harrow how he ended the world. So it would make sense that Harrow might be far from the foreground (Nona’s cupboard behind a fake plank of wood). GtN and HtN are evidence of Harrow being touch averse, hence “Don’t touch me.” The part I still haven’t worked out yet is what she says after.

Page 439-440 At this moment in the River, they are looking at the early stages of Canaan House. The above, middle, and below of Nona’s brain recognizes what it is because John showed it to Alecto at the end of the world, and then the Lyctorhood Trials with Gideon and Harrow.

Page 470 This is the final and most crucial evidence. Earlier, when Pyrrha was going to call Nona Alecto, Nona said “Don’t call me that or anything like that … don’t make me remember. […] You won’t like it.” Then in this scene, once she hears the name, the middle brain disappears, suggesting that the above and below brains are Gideon and Harrow.

It seems that there’s multiple souls inside Harrow’s Body, but they didn’t meld together. Harrow is in there because she comes back after physically touching the Corpse, Gideon is in there because of Kiriona Gaia’s behavior (she wasn’t mindful of Cam’s injuries and is bffs with Ianthe) (not to mention Nona knew how to wield a two-hander without instruction), and there’s Alecto because soul swap in the epilogue.

#this is also why i think that alecto has been inside harrow the entire time #alecto says that anastasias line in unbroken #harrows family has been passing down alectos spriti #the whole time #thats why she was able to the body #there was literally another soul in there with her #anyways #nona the ninth #nona spoilers #ntn spoilers #nona the ninth spoilers #ntn

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ficretus · 4 months

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Theory: Cinder will capture Jaune in Vacuo portion of the story

It's me, back again with another theory based on Joan of Arc story. This time, trying to figure out how her capture by Burgundians will be realized in RWBY story.... if we ever get to that part of the story. If it were to happen, it will most likely be in Volume 11 (I might make Volume 10 Joan of Arc theory one day).

I'd suggest reading my theory below to get better understanding of who do I read as what character and how do events that already happened figure out in their respective story timelines. If not, I'll still make quick tl;dr whenever something from that theory pops up.

First of all, let's start with why. Why would Jaune be captured at any point of the story? Jaune is one of the rare characters in the story who's primary inspiration gets captured in their story (other being Ruby), and no, I don't think Jaune being captured by Ace Ops will suffice for this. Joan of Arc' time in captivity was comparable to her time serving as a soldier (both being roughly one year), so I'd find it pretty weird if Jaune never gets captured as major plot point.

Timeline wise, it also matches. Volumes 4-5 match Loire campaign (pursuing the enemy, enemy fails to ambush them and suffers major defeat), Volume 6 is Rheims coronation (usage of Lantern/King is granted wisdom by Ampulla, both being oil containers), Volumes 7-8 are siege of Paris (both being greatest cities of their respective regions, Joan/Jaune suffers major defeat and retreats last over the bridge). I go over this in more detail in the timeline theory I linked above. Volume 9 is the only one I cannot connect to major event of Joan of Arc story, although that could be because Jaune becomes Rusted Knight during that portion of the story, temporarily ceasing to be Joan of Arc. This would make Vacuo portion of the story, theoretical Volumes 10-11, Joan of Arc' campaign against Perrinet Gressart, battle of Lagny and siege of Compiegne. Compiegne was the last battle Joan of Arc participated in, leading to her capture. So based on this, if Jaune ever gets captured, Vacuo portion of the story is the safest bet.

Cool, but why Cinder as his captor? Joan of Arc is captured by Burgundian army and Cinder matches Burgundian role in Joan of Arc story. Both side with enemy to achieve their goals (Burgundy sides with England, Cinder sides with Salem) ,both are power hungry with the goal of eventual freedom (Burgundy wanted to separate itself from France and become independent Kingdom), both have personal vendetta against enemy leader (Ruby reads as king Charles VII). On top of that, soldier that captured Joan of Arc was archer and Cinder is one of the rare characters in the series to use bow and arrow instead of firearms. Additionally, Joan of Arc was under shared jurisdiction of two enemy commanders, Lionel Bastard of Vendome and John of Luxembourg. Former had lame hand, latter had missing eye. If you overlay their injuries, you get Cinder again.

Why would Cinder capture him is different question who's answer will vary depending on interpretation of the events.

Now that I explained why do I think it's incredibly plausible thing to happen, let's get to the interpretations.

First let me start with interpretation I strongly reject.

Theory 1: Cinder won't capture Jaune, she will kill him on the spot. This is one of those obvious interpretations dating back all the way back to early Volumes, ever since Cinder was revealed to be the fire user. She is fire, he is Joan of Arc, bam, perfect match (I guess Cinder will give Jaune and Pyrrha matching sweaters). There are couple of reasons I reject this interpretation.

I am sceptical about Jaune having tragic ending to his story. While it does make sense on paper considering Joan of Arc is his literary influence, it doesn't quite work with Jaune's story. Joan of Arc has series of triumphs before losing some battles at the end and getting captured. Jaune basically gets none of that, or at least scraps of successes Joan had. On top of that, he gets significantly more failures and suffering compared to Joan. Killing him like this would be like kicking the man while he is already down.

Story seems to reject Jaune's martyrdom, ironically in his battle with Cinder back in Volume 5. He goes in admitting he doesn't care about his own life as long as others succeed. Issue Jaune has is lack of self worth due to his perceived uselessness. For him, character development would be learning to value his own life and not throwing it away for what he thinks is greater good. Having him die in combat basically invalidates that. Him throwing away his life wouldn't be an issue in that case, it's the fact he tried to throw it away at the wrong point of the story.

Having Cinder kill him would feel pretty weird. Common aspect of their encounters is that she can kill him at almost any point but for some reason chooses not to (be it arrogance, sadism or something else entirely), even when she logically really should (there is no reason to not go for a kill when Jaune denied her Maiden power). Having Cinder kill him would feel like she at some arbitrary point decided to flip metaphorical kill switch and finally do it.

Now to interpretations I find more likely

Theory 2: Jaune will be captured and then turned into Grimm. This is taking Joan of Arc story pretty straight forward with some twists. In this version of the events, Cinder will capture Jaune, but not kill him, most likely sadism or because of something Salem ordered her to do. Burgundians ransomed Joan of Arc to the English, which will be mirrored with Cinder giving Jaune to Salem. She will turn him into Grimm akin to the Hound and force him to fight his friends. This will represent Joan's death as heretic. Joan of Arc was re-trialed years later at the orders of king Charles VII, who is Ruby in this version of the story. Duke of Alencon (who I read as Weiss) was one of the witnesses during rehabilitation trial, so I guess she'll help out as well. Ruby will purify Jaune and save his life, symbolizing Joan's rehabilitation.

Next thing is not Joan of Arc related, but what the hell, when will I ever get an opportunity to mention this. There is a another Grimm fairy tale about Snow White, in which she has sister Rose Red. This always bothered me, since it works so well with Ruby and Weiss but story seemingly has no relevance in RWBY plot. They meet a talking bear they take care of. Then they meet evil dwarf several time, always helping him, but he is always ungrateful. In the end, bear kills dwarf, revealing himself to be cursed prince dwarf turned into a bear so he can steal his treasure. Snow White then marries cursed prince and Rose Red marries his brother, the end. So, what does this has to do with anything I said paragraph before? Well, if Jaune does become Grimm and he becomes let's say, Ursa like Grimm, then things get more interesting. He becomes cursed prince from the story that ends up marrying Snow White, making this effectively Whiteknight (Cinder can be then read as evil dwarf since she'd be one responsible for his curse and she stole his treasure, Pyrrha). This would also imply Rosegarden since Rose Red marries prince's brother (Oscar being another cursed prince).

This interpretation does rob Jaune of lot of agency post capture since he'd be esentially mind controlled, but it does hit enough Joan of Arc story beats for me to consider it plausible. This would also shift Cinder to being primarily Weiss' rival since Jaune would be out of commission.

Theory 3: This is step 1 in Cinder's redemption arc. Time to get back to that particular rabbit hole, this time with 100% more Stockholm syndrome. This one will have whole lot speculative canon, but I'll try to reinforce each point with Joan of Arc parallel.

Ok, how the hell does that work? Well first, we need to get back to that double timeline theory I linked at the beginning. To sum it up, timeline 1 goes from Joan's arrival at Chinon to her heresy trial, timeline 2 goes from Joan's childhood to her victory at Orleans. These 2 timelines overlap creating complete narrative (V5 is both Joan's Loire campaign and trip to Vaucouleurs, V8 is both siege of Paris and Joan's village being sacked, etc). I go into reasons why I use this method in that theory.

Anyways, last event I traced to 2nd timeline is Joan's village being sacked. She spends her time in city of Neufchateau before departing for Vaucoleurs to meet Robert de Baudricourt for the third time. Quick tl;dr, Cinder is Baudricourt in this timeline since both dynamic and timeline placements of her meetings with Jaune match Baudricourt's meetings with Joan. Both times, Baudricourt dissmisses Joan (first time borderline publically humiliating her), but third time he relents (motivated by his desperate circumstances and Joan's correct prediction of king losing key battle near Orleans) and sends her to king Charles' castle in Chinon. Sidenote, Cinder also plays the role of Charles VII in timeline 2 (backstories match, both have a crown that they cannot reach, both were raised by powerful queen dowager after running away from their home) which I don't feel is contradictory for the reasons I go more in my timeline theory. Additionally, Joan gained favor of two of Baudricourt's soldiers, Jean of Metz and Bertrand de Poulengy. This surprised Baudricourt considering both were notorious troublemakers. I translate those two into Emerald and Mercury in my timeline theory.

Cool, but what does this has to do with Joan's capture? Well, we overlay this portion of timeline 2 onto Compiegne portion of timeline 1 to get the full story.

First to get back to Compiegne: Burgundian duke Philipp broke the peace treaty with king Charles VII and attacked Compiegne. Joan went there with relatively small army and in some sources, against king's orders. She rallied out to fight Burgundians, holding well, but ultimately getting captured. Burgundians were unable to take Compiegne (or they did but it was quickly recaptured, I've seen both).

So full translation to RWBY would be: Cinder manages to outsmart Ruby and gets into position where it's likely she'll take Maiden power and Relic. Jaune shows up as the last line of defense, likely fighting her together side by side with Emerald and Mercury (I believe Mercury will be redeemed in Volume 10, partially due to Joan of Arc story). This can be interesting callback to either Cinder, Emerald and Mercury taking on Amber or Jaune confronting Cinder with Emerald and Mercury by her side like in Volume 5 (their roles now being reversed). Similar to Volume 5, Jaune will likely hit several sour spots for Cinder (this is reference to Joan telling Baudricourt her visions and them turning out to be true). They lose after putting up a good fight but buy enough time for others to reinforce and prevent Cinder from obtaining the Maiden power and Relic (or Cinder takes too much damage in the fight). Cinder makes spur of the moment desperate decision and captures Jaune while running away (this matches Compiegne, Jaune gets captured but enemy doesn't achieve their objective). Capture kind of works with timeline 2: if Cinder is both Baudricourt and King, then she is effectively sending Jaune to herself, that to me reads like capture.

Several of her comrades try to free Joan, but by the time they reach the place where she is held as prisoner, she is already moved to different castle. This can also happen in the show, breaking the trend of main cast successfully rescuing their captured friend from previous volumes. Jaune would then be taken to Salem with Cinder (who'll likely get punished for her failures) arguing she can exchange Jaune for location of Relic of Choice (maintaining the part of the story Joan is held for ransom). Similar to theory 2, I'd expect Jaune's capture to last at least one full volume.

Ok, that's cool and all, but what does this have to do with Cinder's redemption in any shape or form:

They are forced together for extended period of time. Additionally, there will be nobody else for them to interact with. Eventually, they'll have to interact in some shape or form. I would expect lot of initial setbacks considering Joan of Arc attempted to escape twice. But still, it would be pretty weird if they just grumbled at each other whole time and then go back to fighting. Come on man, they are foils that don't know they are foils, do something with that.

Neither can hurt each other. Jaune cannot hurt her since he is her prisoner, she cannot hurt him without risking the prospect of deal falling off (and as shown when threatened by Neo, Cinder considers her death plausible outcome if she screws up the Relic). That means Jaune can meaningfully verbally challenge Cinder without the risk of dying (hello Watts). This also wouldn't be reach to happen, considering he does similar thing in Volume 5. Basically, Cinder will be stuck with Jaune as voice of consciousness entire volume without being able to get rid off it.

This transitions relatively well into Indecisive King story. In that story, Widow (basically Jaune) spends time in King's castle before eventually confronting him over Relic of Choice. Joan of Arc similarly spends time in King's castle at Chinon. In both stories Jaune coded character spends time with Cinder coded character before eventually changing them for better.

As usual, I decided to make Cinder portion needlessly long and complicated. Anyways, what are your thoughts? Did I miss any plausible interpretations?

#rwby theory #cinder fall #jaune arc #rwby jaune arc #rwby cinder fall #knightfall #rwby knightfall

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lilithfairen · 3 months

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Another RWBY "fix", another impression on my desk (CW: suicide!)

So I recently became aware of yet another RWBY "fix", this one purporting to resolve all of the supposed problems of the series with just one change. And having read numerous RWBY "fixes", including by the same creator, and seeing how every single one of them is motivated by wanting to diminish the roles of anyone who isn't a white dude, I expected this one to suffer from many of the same shitty writing flaws that they all do.

So like any intelligent person who knows they're wading into crap, I decided to watch that video. Hey, I may be stupid, but at least I'm not stupid and pandering to misogynists.

Anyway, the premise of this "fix" is that supposedly it makes Team RWBY more proactive and makes them the main heroes of the story. Let's see how well it accomplishes those goals, shall we?

(Spoiler alert: of course it doesn't~)

The "fix" starts off as usual, except instead of Glynda Goodwitch coming to Ruby's aid, it's Cinder Fall! Because in this "fix", Salem is the Headmistress of Beacon and Cinder, Mercury, and Emerald are teachers' assistants. (The fourth member of Cinder's team is Trivia, a.k.a. Neo.) They talk with Team RWBY instead of the teachers during their character-development stuff in Volume 1. Also, instead of Team SSSN being involved with Blake's arc, it's Team CFVY. Just because the author likes Team CFVY. Torchwick and Neo are the ones who break in and plant the virus in Volume 2.

Anyway, the only change to involve the main characters comes when, instead of the scene about Pyrrha being chosen as a new Maiden, Qrow talks about making Ruby a "Guardian". Qrow teaches Ruby about calming her emotions, because every "good" RWBY "rewrite" revolves around men telling the main characters how to protagonist. Anyway, it's revealed that Salem built the schools and Vaults and apparently the God of Light made very difficult trials to retrieve the Relics. Salem has her own "Witches" as equivalents to the Maidens. But the Relics aren't in the Vaults anyway. Anyway, Salem is considering Pyrrha, Weiss, and Velvet as "Witches" because of reasons entirely unrelated to any willingness to fulfill whatever objective Salem has.

Anyway, instead of Emerald using her Semblance to cause Penny's death, Penny gets hacked instead and that leads to her death. Everything happens as in canon, but when Ruby shows up to confront Roman and Neo, Qrow shows up! Because instead of Ruby outsmarting Neo and the rejection of Roman's nihilistic worldview, this scene is about Qrow going "we'll explain everything" and Ruby just going along with it. Neo makes Ruby look like Trivia, they go into the Vault, there's a random fight, and Ruby randomly uses her Silver Eyes—which accidentally kills Pyrrha, because Salem was grafting Grimm parts onto Pyrrha. Which comes out of completely nowhere, incidentally.

Everyone wakes up at Patch. Team RWBY doesn't get separated, because what are character arcs. Because this is a scene with a bunch of women, the author decides to have them all start screaming and throwing stuff around. I'm sorry, what the fuck?! Anyway, Ozpin finally shows up, and they use the Relic of Knowledge (which Qrow has on him) to show Team RWBY the whole backstory of this rewrite.

...wait, if this is all stuff Ozpin and Qrow know, why are they using the Relic of Knowledge to show Team RWBY this?!

Anyway, tl;dr: Salem made kingdoms, trains Huntsmen to find Relics, wants to destroy world, Ozpin planned the attack on Beacon to cut off global communication and turn the Huntsmen against Salem—

I'm sorry, what the fuck?! Your idea to get the Huntsmen on board with you and against Salem is...a terrorist attack on one of the Academies and destabilization of global society by knocking out communication capabilities? Which, yes, means that Ozpin was responsible for Penny's death? This is fucking stupid.

But anyway, Salem let Ruby into Beacon because she actually wanted to get Ruby killed, but didn't realize Roman was working for Ozpin...because of fucking course he is. Make the shitty white dude into a protagonist, why don't you. Fuck you. Anyway, Team RWBY question his story, but Tai and Qrow vouch for him. So this rewrite about supposedly making the heroines of the story more proactive has them immediately quiet down when told what to think by men.

Then, to prove he was cursed with reincarnation, Ozpin kills himself.

WHAT THE FLYING FUCK

Note that there's no content warning of any sort for her "fix" having a character casually kill themselves just to prove they can reincarnate.

But more so, it highlights how every RWBY "rewrite" and "fix" is so incapable of coming up their own story that they need to leap giant and stupid distances in order to have events correlate with 99% of canon anyway.

So this leads to Team RWBY setting off to fight Salem. And the author claims this "fix" achieves her goals of making Team RWBY more proactive because now they will have to travel and fight against enemies like the Grimm and Salem's minions and Team RWBY are labelled as wanted criminals. You know, like they do in the show. She also claims that this makes Team RWBY "the main heroes", supposedly unlike the show, except now we've established that Team RWBY is firmly following the yoke of Ozpin, Qrow, Roman, and the rest of Ozpin's psychotic murderous terrorist conspiracy against Salem. Rather than emphasizing how Team RWBY themselves makes the choice to go out and discover the truth, they're just spoon-fed it all, effectively given their mission by male characters, and forced into working with Ozpin due to the male characters' actions.

The author also claims a "plot hole" of why Salem didn't do anything until the present, except the canon story constantly insinuates that Salem was responsible for various past conflicts. She also thinks it's a good thing for Team RWBY to have to work with Roman and Neo instead of other Huntsmen, because simping.

At this point, the author just starts rambling about vague ideas, having no concrete storyline beyond V3. Most notable is when she gets to Adam Taurus, whom she describes as wanting the Relics to help his people. (Of course.) This then leads into plenty of rambling where the author talks about everyone else's roles in the story aside from Team RWBY, which really highlights the fundamental problem here:

This is a "fix" that, like every other RWBY "fix", is for people who don't give a fuck about Team RWBY themselves.

Contrary to the creator's claims, this is a "fix" about making Roman and Neo into protagonists. This is a "fix" about making the main characters more obedient to male characters. This is a "fix" about randomly changing the roles of just about every other character except for Team RWBY themselves, where female characters put into different roles simply follow the same story but male characters put into different roles drastically reshape the plot around them.

Because that is your brain on RWBY HTDM logic: a fundamental understanding that, no matter what you claim about the show and its supposed flaws, you're fully aware that you're pandering to an audience that's motivated primarily by really fucking hating women being heroes.

#rwby rewrites #misogyny in hatedom #cw suicide #tw suicide

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thunderon · 2 years

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Why did Pyrrha shoot Wake (in Cytherea ) at the end of Harrow the ninth and do we think she's proper gone gone

alright idk if we ever get an outright answer but here’s my speculation. first let’s review the death scene when pyrrha (in g1deon’s body) shows up and shoots wake (in cytherea’s body). here’s how gideon (in harrows body lol) describes wake’s expression when pyrrha shows up:

1) swoon

2) interesting, right? considering they were trying to kill each other a few chapters ago, why would wake be relieved to see pyrrha?

let’s rewind a few chapters (back to when wake was haunting harrow) and examine a note:

(HIM - G1deon; SHE - Pyrrha; WIZARD SHITS - A & M)

now here’s my supposition. to me, it feels almost like wake and pyrrha worked out a pact. wake agreed to give g1deon (and by proxy pyrrha) a quick death, and i feel like pyrrha is returning the favor. i mean, wake is tied to a chair, in the possession of john, with no way out and no hope of rescue. in a lot of ways, death is a mercy, and wake seems to know that pyrrha is going to give it to her.

and it’s very telling when later pyrrha and gideon (2.0) are stuck with the options of dying being crushed by water, pulled down to hell, or (on their own terms) shooting themself with pyrrha’s revolver and she says:

so tl;dr: i think it was a mercy kill as a favor to wake

whether or not wake is gone gone? well if we take this on face value:

then ya she dead dead. but. i stopped taking things on face value with this series a long time ago lol. i feel like i don’t quite have enough information to confidently say yes or no. im kinda torn to be quite honest. but tbh i feel like it’d be a little cheap for muir to pull the “shes alive” card after making such a huge deal about her dying like this. you can only resurrect characters so many times before character deaths stop having an impact on readers, ya feel? but also i love wake as a character so i would happily get off my high horse and eat my words if she ends up showing up down the road

#the locked tomb #if anyone else has thoughts chime in id love to hear em #also lol #i really didn’t need to include that quote from the actual scene #but i love that passage describing wakes smile so i included it anyways #asks #harrow the ninth

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thoughts-of-loyalty · 6 months

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Took a while to get this one rolling, but here we go: my fourth Nitpick November nitpick!

As I alluded to during my previous nitpick, this one also concerns the openings, and in particular openings 2 and 3 again (funny how that works).

I feel like the 2nd and 3rd openings for the show was kinda a weird middle point for the early openings: Volume 1's was pretty generic and didn't suggest much, and Volumes 4 and 5 felt like they had at least enough of a grasp on the show's general direction to make their openings better cohere to the story.

Now, that's not to say that I don't like anime openings or endings that don't really have anything to say, or are relatively mindless fun. As a random(ish) example, One Piece Opening 3 (HIkari E) is one of my favorite openings to One Piece, and it could charitably be described as "the crew's adventures on the high seas having fun, interposed with cool action shots." It's relatively meaningless, mindless fun that's just to get you in the mood for the upcoming show you're about to watch. Heck, I'll readily admit to enjoying both openings 2 and 3 of RW/BY despite how I've taken to critiquing them, that's the fun we have here sometimes.

But at the same time, it feels like RW/BY WAS trying to do one of those "even if the action is meaningless, there's hints to things that would be playing out in the show," at least to some extent. Stuff like the Grimm crawling up Beacon Academy in Volume 3's opening to hint at the Fall of Beacon, or the paralleling of the moment in Volume 1's opening where Pyrrha puts her hand on Jaune's shoulder by having Jaune do that for Pyrrha (likely trying to hint at how Jaune needed to take his turn of being there for Pyrrha in Volume 2... kinda? It's not exactly the cleanest, but they were trying).

So where my nitpick comes in is them kinda playing up Team SSSN in those openings.

Now, I won't pretend SSSN as a whole was ever really advertised or intended to be as majorly important to the story, but they were present in two openings, to an extent relatively comparable to CVFY - they're in one of the brief flashes of the less-important teams in Volume 2...

And in the sequence where they pan between teams - they're literally between RW/BY and JNPR!

I was always a fan of their designs, being a particular fan of Sage and Scarlet, so it was a real shame IMO that they were both effectively nonentities beyond their one fight and some smaller scenes in Volume 3. Really felt wasteful that cool designs like theirs could go so wasted, not to mention characters from outside Beacon the cast could bounce off of.

So, tl;dr: I was a SSSN (or, well, SSS) fan, so their presence in the openings felt disproportionate to their actual roles in the story, and thus I really lament that the show made me feel hyped for characters that ultimately amounted to very little beyond Sun (and to an extent, Neptune).

#rwde nitpicks #nitpick november #rwde

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kitkatopinions · 11 months

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When are people gonna stop ignoring that both Blake and Yang are bi because I’m getting really sick and tired of how often I’m seeing Yang be labeled a lesbian when she’s literally not and the text has went out of its way to show that

The thing is, people are one hundred percent valid to headcanon Yang as a lesbian and either just ignore her attraction to guys in the first season or headcanon it away as Yang having not realized she's a lesbian yet (which would sort of make sense because she's only seventeen, I didn't realize I was attracted to women until I was already an adult,) or comphet (although I've heard that the writers claim there's no bigotry or discrimination outside of Faunus discrimination, that's not reflected in their work due to the writers' inability to deconstruct their own bigotry.) There are plenty of characters that I personally headcanon to be exclusively attracted to their same sex despite pursuing relationships with the opposite sex in canon. Weiss and Neptune are the two I can point to in RWBY. I headcanon away their flirting, asking out etc as just them performing what they think is expected them, but really, slowly breaking away from the controlled life she's lived helps Weiss realize she's actually a lesbian and Neptune has been in the closet for years to everyone but Sun and eventually starts feeling comfortable enough to be more open and stop his 'cool guy player' act. But, those are just headcanons, and that's what I think people need to realize about Yang.

She's not a canon lesbian, nor is she a character that's only displayed attraction to women in the actual canon of the show itself, she's openly leered at a group of shirtless men and been animated with a lustful expression and written to say how much she approves of their shirtlessness before being voice acted to purringly growl at them - when the only person she's even talking to is her little sister and the person she's least likely to pretend around. And Yang feeling like she needs to perform 'normalcy' has pretty much never been part of her character, and neither has secret keeping tbh, which makes her the least likely of the main four RWBY girls to be performing comphet. And despite Yang's attraction to men, people will say she's a canonical lesbian, or even worse, attack anyone who dares to headcanon Yang as bi or pan or any other identity that isn't 'exclusively attracted to women only.' It's biphobia, which is rampant in this fandom tbh. Blake at least is allowed to be called a bisexual even though people will still be attacked for daring to ship her with a man and other people try their darnedest to pretend Blake has never actually romantically liked or been attracted to any man ever, but Yang? People have been attacked just for saying 'she's not canonically a lesbian.' It's wild.

TL;DR Lesbian Yang headcanons are super valid! But they are not canon, and Yang's early display of attraction to men doesn't just no longer matter at all. If people are like "But I want more lesbians in rwby!" Like... Me too, babe. Hey, you know who could do something about that? The rwby writers, by expanding their LGBTQ+ rep past a couple of side characters and two out of arguably ten main characters we currently have not including people who were main characters like Pyrrha, Penny, and Sun.

#rwde

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azurish · 2 years

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Pyrrha Dve and Pyrrha of Thessaly: Survivors of the Flood

“If I’m God, I can start over. The flood, you know? You can wash things clean. That’s all the end of Earth was … making things clean.” --Nona the Ninth, p. 435

“You want Gideon the First, and Gideon the First is dead. He’s not coming back. Oh, God, Gideon,” said Pyrrha, suddenly. “Gideon … G—, you died for nothing.” --Nona the Ninth, p. 390

tl;dr: Pyrrha Dve shares a name with Pyrrha of Thessaly, one of the only two survivors of Zeus’s great deluge in Greek myth, which might connect to why Pyrrha alone seems to remember G1deon’s real name from before Jod’s “flood.” Unpacking this allusion brings to light other suggestive parallels between the two Pyrrhas’ stories, including:

Zeus and Jod’s destruction of the Earth with the intent to replace flawed humanity with a new, pious version of humankind who would worship them as gods

how the Greek Pyrrha survives without Zeus’s knowledge by hiding in her husband’s “chest” (sound like someone we know?)

Pyrrha of Thessaly’s role in repopulating Earth by disturbing her “mother” Gaia’s grave and casting her bones (aka stones) to the ground, from which arose the new human beings (who else disturbs “Earth’s” Tomb?)

and some other more out-there parallels, including a connection to the tower in the River; some thoughts on Zeus, Jod, and cannibalism; a verrrry tangential connection between Pyrrha and Gideon Nav; and thoughts on other survivors

So, following the release of Nona the Ninth, we’re now all familiar with Jod’s conception of the end of the Earth as a literalization of the flood myth with him as God. Afterwards, he claims he brought back all his friends without their memories – and, based on his discussion of renaming Ulysses and Titania and the fact that the Lyctors’ old names are all dashed out, many of us have assumed with new names. But somehow, Pyrrha Dve seems to remember her necromancer’s original name. What’s going on with that?

I don’t have an explanation, but I do have a very interesting parallel, which is almost entirely not the same thing while still justifying writing meta! :P (I mean, if you’re looking for an explanation, my best guess is that Jod talks about altering memory through changing the brain’s biological structures, suggesting that the soul still remains a blind spot of his. Pyrrha no longer has her physical corporation/brain and is solely existing in Gideon’s body, so maybe there’s something there? Soul memories, idk lol.)

Lots of past meta I’ve seen about Pyrrha Dve’s name has focused on Pyrrhus of Epirus, who gave his name to the term “Pyrrhic victory”: a victory whose losses were so severe as to call into question whether such a “victory” was really worth it at all. On that reading, Pyrrha’s name is a nod to how attaining Lyctorhood was a Pyrrhic victory for Gideon and the other Lyctors, because they had to sacrifice their most beloved companions (brother, wife, best friend, etc.) to achieve this “lesser”/imperfect Lyctorhood. I’ve also definitely seen people point out how the name Pyrrha itself comes from the Greek adjective “πυρρός”, which can mean flame-colored or redheaded: clearly apt for our girl/my wife Pyrrha. I think all of that is right, and also I think tazmuir was drawing on yet another mythological parallel for Pyrrha’s name: that of Pyrrha of Thessaly, survivor of the Flood.

Pyrrha of Thessaly and Pyrrha Dve

In Greek myth (well, more or less, depending on the version – I’m quoting Dryden’s Ovid here, so Roman reception, but I’ll stick with Zeus to make things easier), Zeus decides to wipe the Earth clean after judging humanity irredeemable. When he shares this plan, the other gods immediately complain that, should he destroy humankind, “Neglected altars must no longer smoke,/If none were left to worship, and invoke.” Interestingly, he immediately reassures them: “Lay that unnecessary fear aside:/Mine be the care, new people to provide./I will from wondrous principles ordain/A race unlike the first, and try my skill again.” In other words, after the cleansing flood, he’s going to create a new crop humanity to worship him and his pantheon at those neglected altars … sound like anyone we know yet?

However! Two humans survive Zeus’s deluge: Deucalion, ruler of Phthia in Thessaly, and his wife Pyrrha. Here’s where it gets especially intriguing, because depending on the version you read, this Greek Noah and his wife survive for different reasons! Ovid’s Metamorphoses has them surviving because they’re the two best people around – the most holy, upright, worthy, etc. But in other accounts, such as that in the Bibliotheca of Pseudo-Apollodorus, they actually sort of sneak past Zeus. Deucalion’s father is the Titan Prometheus (whom you may remember from other Zeus-defying escapades like “giving humanity fire”), and Prometheus instructs Deucalion on how to build and provision a chest that will survive the flood. Thus, when Zeus goes to destroy humanity, Pyrrha survives inside Deucalion’s chest until the flood ends and the two reach dry land and propitiate Zeus. (OK, so it’s an actual physical wooden trunk, BUT ALSO Pyrrha survives by hiding in her husband’s chest I’m just saying.)

After surviving, the two ask the gods (usually Zeus through an intermediary) how to repopulate the planet. They are told to “throw … your mighty mother’s bones” to the ground – a suggestion that horrifies Pyrrha, who refuses to defile her mother’s grave, crying out, “Forbid it Heav’n, said she, that I shou’d tear/Those holy reliques from the sepulcher” (we’re back to quoting Ovid here btw). But after carefully pondering their instructions, they find a different meaning: perhaps, Deucalion suggests, “This Earth our mighty mother is, the stones/In her capacious body, are her bones.” So they gather up “Gaia’s bones”, i.e. rocks from the ground, and when they cast those stones behind them, new human beings spring up from where they fall.

Pyrrha’s calling Gaia her mother, her disturbing Gaia’s remains from their “sepulcher,” and Gaia’s “bones” repopulating the Earth are all very interesting! It probably goes without saying that there’s a Gaia-Alecto connection here (in fact, I think you could even say John makes that connection fully textual when he calls himself John Gaius, if you read it as a Lyctoral name). I read the Greek Pyrrha’s identifying Gaia as her mother as a neat inversion of the parental relationship between Pyrrha and Nona (note that in the myth, Gaia isn’t Pyrrha’s actual mother – that’s Pandora, while her dad is Prometheus’s brother, Epimetheus (which technically makes Gaia her paternal great-grandmother)). Our Pyrrha is, obviously, involved in unearthing (heh) Alecto’s body from the Tomb, just as the Greek Pyrrha felt she was being called to disturb her mother/Gaia’s resting place.

Alecto the Ninth Speculation: Gaia’s Bones and the Resurrection

All of the above I think is reasonably textually supported, but with the last “parallel” – the repopulation of the planet from Gaia’s bones – I’m going to step off the deep end, lol, and move away from literary analysis of existing parts of TLT to pure speculation about the future. First off, the key caveat is that, obviously, I don’t think Tamsyn Muir is trying to write a literal beat for beat version of the Greek flood myth with Pyrrha Dve, so I think the actual likeliest explanation here is that the actual limit of Pyrrha Dve’s connection to Pyrrha of Thessaly is just that both (sort of) survived their respective divine “floods.” But I do have a couple thoughts about directions that “Gaia’s bones” and the resurrection could point at, which I’ll list roughly from most to least likely; and I’m also interested in hearing others’ ideas.

I think this parallel could pay off in one of two directions: either the Resurrection in the past or something in the future, in Alecto, involving a collaboration between Nona/Alecto and Pyrrha. In the past, we obviously don’t know yet how the Resurrection actually went – John’s confession in Harrow’s Alecto-dreams didn’t extend that far – but it’s easier to speculate (and to pick out speculative parallels). It certainly seems apparent that Jod’s going to be majorly drawing on Alecto’s power to do it – just as Zeus claimed he was creating a whole new crop of humanity to worship him, but was actually digging up Gaia’s bones to make the magic happen. Making bodies from earth and stones is a classic mythic motif, so I don’t think the Pyrrha flood myth is necessarily being referenced here, but there sure is something neat about John’s making Alecto’s body “from the dirt, my blood, my vomit, my bone.” Beyond that, some versions of the Greek flood myth suggest that humanity’s nature was changed by being reborn from stones, with Ovid writing, “Hence we derive our nature; born to bear/Laborious life; and harden’d into care” (the Greeks were generally huge fans of the pun possibilities between λαός (people) and λᾶας (stone)). You could maybe connect that to the suggestion that there seems to be something slightly off in Jod’s new version of people – the sickliness that affects necromancers? (I don’t think that’s quite right, though, because you’d expect stones to be harder, not brittler and easier to break.)

But the myth isn’t just about how Zeus uses Gaia’s bones to resurrect humanity – it’s also about how Pyrrha and her partner (Deucalion/G1deon) bring back humanity. Maybe the importance of Deucalion in revitalizing humanity via Gaia could pay off if it turns out G1deon has a key role in the Resurrection (Jod keeps talking about how he has “big plans” for Gideon’s arm, and he even says that “G—’ll be easiest” to bring back, although in context I think he just means that he won’t have to wipe as much of his memory because he wasn’t even at the compound)? I think that’s a reach, though, and that the arm is just important so he has biomaterial on hand (lol). But the reachiest possible connection here is to say that maybe Pyrrha’s going to play a role in some future Resurrection: something in Alecto the Ninth that resolves Jod’s “missing math” (the people he didn’t bring back, possibly the souls clogging up the river?) and brings more people back, or brings back people “correctly.” Certainly, in terms of any role Pyrrha could play in collaborating with Alecto/Gaia in something like a resurrection or rebirth of humanity in the next novel, it’s worth noting that she is now strongest remaining link from Alecto back to Nona, with all of Nona’s compassion and love.

Remaining Errata

OK, that’s all for immediate parallels from the meat of the Greek flood myth! But there are some remaining pieces of the myth that caught my attention, so those get to go at the end of this piece of meta.

The Tower

Whatever’s going on with the massive new Tower in the River is obviously going to be important! I have a LOT of thoughts about this, but that is for another meta. What I’ll say here is that, while I think the clearest reference there is to the Tower of Babel (what with Nona being the only person who can still understand all languages), another famous mytho-religious tower-y structure often identified with the Tower of Babel is the towering pile of mountains that the Greek Giants built to reach the gods when they tried to challenge Zeus et al. Per Ovid, observing the Giants’ building this tower was one of the things that made Zeus despair at the current state of the world and decide to set off the flood that Pyrrha survived in the first place.

Cannibalism

Other reasons Zeus was angry enough to flood the earth: eating human flesh! One of the impieties that drove Zeus to damn the first version of humanity was King Lycaon daring to test whether Zeus was truly omnipotent by serving him human flesh. Go on, dive in, I know y’all are thinking of that bit in Harrow where Jod says, “Ten thousand years since I’ve eaten human being, Harrow, and I didn’t really want an encore.”

Gideon Nav as Pyrrha Dve’s Achilles?

Finally, Phthia, which Deucalion and Pyrrha ruled, was later Achilles’s home. You could possibly say something here about our Pyrrha and G1deon as not-parents to Gideon, who ~invaded~ the planet of Priamhark Noniusvianus, just as Achilles invaded the city of Priam in the Trojan War. I think that’s probably squinting too hard, buttttt you could still make the case. Also, that takes us full circle back to the other Pyrrhus that Pyrrha could be named for, because Plutarch seems to suggest that Pyrrhus (he of the Pyrrhic victory) got his name from family tradition because Deucalion and Pyrrha were the first rulers after the flood in Epirus.

Other Flood survivors?

OK, I have no idea what to do with this piece, but obviously Pyrrha isn’t the only potential “survivor” of Jod’s “flood” – the fleeing trillionaires (or potentially other human outposts?), etc. Similarly, some versions of the Greek flood myth suggest that in addition to Pyrrha and Deucalion, a few other humans slip through, such as Cerambus, grandson of Poseidon. This seems kind of tangential, but hey, if someone named “Cerambus” shows up in AtN and seems to know a lot about Earth without Jod’s blessing, we should probably listen to him! ;)

Sources

Ovid’s Metamorphoses The Pseudo-Apollodorus Other Greek and Roman flood accounts overview Pyrrha and Deucalion in Greek and Roman writing On Pyrrha, Deucalion, stones, and puns

#tlt meta #pyrrha dve #john gaius #nona the nonth #alecto the ninth #gideon the first #alecto the first #nona #alecto speculation #nona the ninth spoilers #ntn spoilers #the locked tomb #the locked tomb meta #meta #pyrrha of thessaly #i have no idea what else to tag this. huh.#locked tomb

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lunatriense · 8 months

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Should Pyrrha be able to fly with her semblance?

Okay, so Pyrrha calls her Semblance "polarity", and talks about magnetism for it, but then we see her using it on soda cans (which are aluminium) and her weapons (which appear to be some kind of copper alloy), which wouldn't be ferromagnetic. So, does she have actual magnetism control or does she have what amounts to metallokinesis?

If she has metallokinesis, then she should be able to "fly" via moving her armour (or holding/standing on her shield and moving that). If she has actual magnetism control, then things get much more interesting. See, everything has some reaction to magnetic fields, we just tend to think of things that are ferromagnetic as "magnetic" because they have a much more pronounced reaction — specifically attraction — than other, "non-magnetic" things. Buuuuut if you have a strong enough magnetic field, you can manipulate those other things too; you can, for example, levitate frogs or mice or whatnot because the water in their bodies is diamagnetic (repulsed by magnetic fields). So what does that mean for Pyrrha? Well, we've seen her fling around things that aren't ferromagnetic, so she has to be able to create some really strong magnetic fields. If they're strong enough, then she'd be able to fly via repulsing the diamagnetic water in her own body, but that's not all. At incredibly high strength — the kind that you can't ever find on earth, but some celestial bodies produce — magnetic effects get really nasty. As in, "shut down your nervous system" nasty. As in "rip you apart at the molecular level" nasty. But even at lower, terrestrially-possible levels, magnetic fields can blind people with light that only exists in their own retina, make then nauseous and/or vertiginous, and more. And on top of that, magnetism and electricity are two sides of the same coin, so if she can control the one she could generate and control the other.

Tl;dr — she should probably be able to fly, or simulate flight anyway, but if she can control actual magnetism she can probably do a lot more.

#rwde #answers

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denimshortsdean · 9 months

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ruined by the jorts

Due to realising that it's 2023 and everyone is cringe, therefore I'm the only thing stopping me from being exactly as feral as I want to be, I will be back on tumblr

TL;DR: ✿ queer, genderfluid, he/she/they ♡ destiel 'til i die ♡ ꕤ Pyrrha Dve please step on me ✶ terfs get off my fucking lawn ☽ gays get in my inbox ❀ everything tagged for my own navigation purposes

✦Icon by @werepires ✦

I will once again be posting about supernatural. Destiel brainrot. Good omens beat me up in a dark alley. The locked tomb made me go lie face up in the ocean to just Consider. FIGHTING ROBOTS FUCK YEAH (Pacific Rim)!!!!!

Acquired a lot of legend of Zelda knowledge while I was away, still a big fan of animation, art, and obviously jokes. yard sard still kills me every time!! Text posts for days. Probably some misc book things too. Primarily supernatural but multifandom I guess? Is that still a thing ppl say?

I have a custom blog theme because I'm still living in the 2014 pimp your blog era

I love to use tags as my personal diary heehehe. My own thoughts/posts tagged "it's ya gal rach", "it's ya boi rach", or just "it's ya rach". block all three for full coverage in case you hate me <3 My navigation page is under construction because it's been a million years since I've done HTML coding and tumblr apparently hates custom theme pages now, but if there's anything you want to find then go ahead and search for it, everything is tagged! if i may suggest gay little lip thing, silly little faces, the sads, or hee hoo, these are all some personal favourites

If you have questions or just want to be friends then PLEASE DO!! My inbox/chats are always open and new friends welcomed with open arms 🥹

#it's ya gal rach #it's ya boi rach #text #welcome #pinned #it's ya rach

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liesmyth · 1 year

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do you have any anastasia thoughts/theories?

Some! First of all, I firmly believe that she was hot just based on vibes. This is very important to me.

Various thoughts / headcanons, in no particular order:

She was the first of the Second Gen disciples, and arrived at Canaan House before Cyrus and Valancy.

I’m absolutely never ever letting go of the fact that she created Teacher by Frankestening together a bunch of souls. (Terrifying! And hot). Also, her research notes are the reason why the Reverend Parents were able to make sure Harrow was born a necromancer.

I think she was born on the Eight! Because her work focused on souls, but also because the fact that the Eight fucking hates that the Ninth exists takes on a delicious ironic tinge in this case.

I think Samael wasn’t the father of her child, but I don’t feel super strongly about it. Also, I’m neutral on the theory that she was pregnant when she tried to ascend, but again I wouldn’t mind it at all if it turned out to be true!

The child who suceeded her as a Tombkeeper was born after she left Canaan House but ngl I like that theory going around that Samael may have been her son. I don’t think it’s super likely but it’d be cool if it was.

Theory corner! This is more wild speculation that vibes.

I wrote a long-ish post on what I think happened during Anastasia’s failed Lyctoral ascension here (tl;dr: she tapped into Alecto’s power and backfired /IMO) and I stand by most of it except I think there’s a nonzero chance Anastasia may have made her attempt even before G1deon and Pyrrha did.

Another theory I’m fond of: I think she walled herself into the Tomb so that the thanergy from her death would add an extra boost to the wards. John tells Harrow that it’s not true that the wards have to be maintained since he set them himself, but I think he might be unaware that Anastasia messed with them after he’d already left the system, years after they were set up.

(To be clear, I think Anastasia walked into the tomb, walled it in and killed herself for the thanergy boost when she was Crux-aged or close to it, not that she pulled a Cristabel immolated herself on Alecto’s coffin)

My wild guess is that she added a failsafe that would trap in anyone who entered the inner chamber if they weren’t of the Tombkeeper line. It wouldn’t trap anyone who can travel through the River, ofc, but I think that if Wake had been able to open the Tomb she would never have gotten back out.

#Anonymous #ask #anastasia the first #tlt thoughts #tlt theories #tlt

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fanstuffrantings · 3 months

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I have a question: what made you completely change Pyrrha?

I know she dies in this AU but why change her personality if she is going to die still?

This is going to be a bit hefty. I've explained my issues with canon Pyrrha a bit before but I'm always willing to do it again so I hope this makes things relatively clear:

When volume 1 of RWBY was still airing, I used to tell anyone that would listen that I believed Pyrrha would either die or go through a villain corruption arc. I told people this not because something was setting it up, but because Pyrrha in canon has a personality that embodies the dead wives you see in videos husbands play. They're characters made not to be characters, but to be missed. To be loved and adored by the audience without the creator going in and giving them flaws or traits that make them anything more than a concept to be revered.

It's like the writers didn't trust that the audience could miss or mourn a character who wasn't completely perfect. They seemed so afraid of making her controversial that they barely made her at all. Canon pyrrha doesn't exists outside of Jaune and what she can do for other characters until volume 3. We don't start getting a pyrrha arc until barely a handful of episodes before she's killed off. And after she's gone she's almost never brought up in a context that doesn't include Jaune in some way. Volume 4 has JNR and Ruby traveling together but outside of Jaune's grief we get no hints or indication of the rest of the group dealing with the grief of her passing or avoiding the topic as they pretend they've moved on.

I don't even hate characters like Pyrrha, when handled well it can be a good way to add an emotional center to a characters story. But pyrrha is an actual character we know for 3 volumes who is supposed to feel like her own person with hopes and dreams.

I want her to be human. To be someone flawed and messy that is still growing because she's a person who can change. I want her to exist beyond this idea of being in service to others and instead exist with the idea that because she's been raised to believe she's so fantastic by everyone that she's started to believe it and it's negatively shaped her image of others and how she can connect to them. It gives her a character arc that can then be interrupted by the maiden, while also maybe giving us a reason that Ozpin wasn't immediately willing to speak to Pyrrha about them.

There's also the fact that she's based on Achilles but her personality lends much better to a Joan of arc type (Jaune) than to a demigod known for feats of brutality. There are countless stories floating around of Achilles being horrific and cruel, yet outside of her semblance, skill in combat, and visual inspiration drawn from ancient Greek armor, the writers don't really show any evidence Pyrrha is based on Achilles.

To me her being imperfect and unlikable, only to be killed before she fully grows and changes is far more tragic. Someone with the capacity to be a better version of themselves never getting to grow into it but clearly trying to do so. It would also add emphasis to the fact that Pyrrha was a child when she died, she was 17 maybe 18 if we're being generous. That's so young.

TL;DR: canon pyrrha felt like the writers were shoving a character at us and telling us to love her/miss her then tying her to a man she'd never be separate from.

#grooveguylove #ask #rwby critical #rwde #molten rambles #rwby rewrite

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