#ml derision spoilers
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hi I didn't check tags fast enough to watch with subs however I wanted to express how deeply I agree with u in that adrien should be allowed one murder. as a treat
#ml derision#derision spoilers#ml spoilers#derision#ml derision spoilers#miraculous#miraculous ladybug
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there is genuinely not a single thought going on in his head. if u looked inside his mind all you’d see is xuppu clapping a pair of cymbals.
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ML derision spoilers no context
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Guys.
All this time, Adrien has been thinking that all of Marinette’s stammers, inability to talk or stay close to him or even hold his hand was that because she struggles with expressing her romantic feelings. Right? And now he finally knows that in reality it’s because she’s been hurt and traumatised so badly in the past, she can’t help but feel like he’ll do the same to her and that must STING.
And you know what’s worse?
She’s right.
He killed her in another timeline by accident as Chat Blanc.
And once the reveal does happen and his past akumatisation comes to light, how is he ever, ever gonna cope with that?
#ml spoilers#miraculous ladybug#miraculous ladybug and chat noir#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#derision spoilers#derision#yes i will somehow make everything related to chat blanc and no you will not stop me
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the puppeteer 2 statue “prank” scene in retrospect hnnnnnnn
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Ml Analysis: Marinette's crush on Kim
You know, Marinette having a crush on Kim in the past in "Derision" checks out so much more than people give it credit for.
Marinette is a kid who got bullied on an sometimes even extreme level on a daily for years by Chloé and by the power she has over the school environment (or more accurately, Chloé's parents) and under these circumstances that we saw it makes perfect sense for why she felt drawn to Kim. Kim embodys alot of characteristics she would find comforting or even attractive because of her being a victim of bullying.
- Basics: Kim is tall, strong and sporty. He could effectively defend and protect her from Chloé or almost any of the other kids.
- He's stupid and this manifest itself very dominently in him not being too bothered by authority or threats. No, I'm not joking, him being stupid factors into this. "Derision" shows how everyone around Marinette is at least to some degree afraid of Chloé (or her parents) because of her power, the verbal insults she can deliver or physical "pranks"/bullying she pulls. Kim on the other hand isn't bothered in the slightest by whatever Chloé does and because of that Chloé has barely any power over him the same way she does everyone else.
Plus, Ms. Mendeleiev is characterized and highlighted as the strictest, most unfair and most "Chloé-like" teacher and one thing is for sure, she definitely would have some "nice" opinions on Kim too and certainly wouldn't hold back voicing those either. We don't need to see it on screen to know how she would treat certain students we know by now. And just like with Chloé, Kim probably isn't too bothered by Ms. Mendeleiev either besides being annoyed by her unfairness. I have no problem seeing how Marinette would find herself drawn to a person who isn't bothered by Chloé's and Ms. Mendeleiev bullying (because it's flying right over his head), something she has to constantly endure and feels very hurt by.
Also: if he already doesn't mind whatever they can do or say it to him, then the chances are good that he isn't very interested in whatever mean things they say about or do to others (meaning: Marinette) either. Logically, Marinette would find the thought of being with a person who won't listen to or believe everything bad being said about her ect VERY appealing.
- because of Kim not being bothered by the bully environment they are all in, he is probably by a good edge the most carefree and "fun" student/friend around. And fun is something Marinette certainly missed in the school environment or wished she could have despite the danger she's constantly in because of Chloé and the teachers.
- and one more thing I think is incredibly important: it's not like Marinette isn't SEEING right in front of her eyes that Kim has bully characteristics too. They immediately showed that through the old dynamic between Kim and Max:
Socqueline is right in her concern when she doesn't want Marinette to get closer to Kim because she can see that he behaves in ways that clearly will clash with everything Chloé puts her through. But the thing is, Marinette is not stupid. She knows that but she didn't minded it and was even drawn to Kim because she saw that whatever Kim is doing that resembles Chloé's bullying isn't done by him with the intention of bullying.
It is realistic that Marinette would find comfort in a person like that in her circumstances because Kim is openly showing his worst (yes, one should acknowledge here that is was clearly shown that Kim by himself would have never done to Marinette what he did. Even he double checked with Chloé if she was sure that Marinette would like a prank like that) and therefore Marinette knows (or thought) that his worst therefore can't be truly dangerous to her. And may I say, feeling like the worst the other person can/will do to you not being something you have to fear because you don't concider their worst dangerous to you IS something humans are naturally very attracted to. This perfectly checks out, Marinette’s rose-colored glasses just.. overlooked a bit too much potential danger in good faith.
What mattered most to past Marinette in that moment is that she can't see any malice in his actions and intentions. And because of that she didn't minded the thought of putting up with Kim's more negative characteristics. She knew this isn't the same as with Chloé.
This is also one major factor of why Kim's prank messed Marinette up so much and why that should have been properly acknowledge by the episode because Chloé alone didn't cause this. Kim as a person and the fact that he sorta-bullies without malice was just as important. Marinette made a clear-cut distinction between Chloé's bully behavior and Kim's and was drawn to him because in her eyes his kindness/ not maliciousness outweighed the negative.
BUT then Chloé as an outside force came along and took Kim - who is one of the few students not intimidated by Chloe and actually finds her charming - and his bullying without maliciousness and turned his regular "danger-level" up to an eleven by using his kindness/ and stupidness against Marinette.
Kim's kindness and not maliciousness may have outweighed his negative character traits and because of that Marinette wouldn't have minded at all putting up with it since she knew that Kim himself isn't a danger to her the way Chloé is, but the thing that truly traumatized Marinette is having wittnessed that a person's kindness or low danger-level doesn't stop the world around them to use and turn their kindness into something else and into a weapon against her. It's when even kindness looses it's purity and therefore can't be trusted anymore because of bad people corrupting it and the good person (this is literally the same base structure as what Gabriel does to the akuma victims Marinette has to save)
And concidering that this is exactly one of the true major issues Marinette has with pursuing Adrien romantically and which hold her back from accepting his kindness towards her as true and loving as it is - something she is even directly referring to and calling out in this very episode! - one would think this episode would have prioritized highlighting it instead of just blaming everything on Chloé and Chloé alone because it's easy. Like, that was the point!
Please point it out and not just the Chloé part! If there was one narrative half that could have remained in the surface-level subtext, it should have been the Chloé part and not the one directly explaining to us alot of major reasons why Marinette behaves around Adrien AND Chat Noir the way she does and most importantly: why Adrien/Chat Noir is inherently DIFFERENT and therefore never truly off-putting to her no matter how similar some points I just listed get.
But that is a whole analysis for itself and it's way past midnight now so I'll add it on another day.
#ml spoilers#miraculous ladybug#miraculous#marinette dupain cheng#ml kim#ml analysis#Ml season 5#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#Marinette's crush on Kim#Makes perfect sense to me#Lê Chiến Kim#Ml#Ml Lê Chiến Kim
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Derision AU where Kim wasn’t trying to prank Marinette and is confused as to why she freaked out, he just thinks giving people a box of spiders is peak romance
#category 5 autism event#le chien kim#derision#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#derision spoilers#ml spoilers#miraculous ladybug#Marinette dupain cheng#marikim#kinda#if you squint#original content
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adding ondine to my collection of blorbos who deserve better. she and marc can talk about why their partners ain't shit
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So Derision Broke Me…
Derision (Miraculous S5E14) made some choices that fundamentally broke Marinette’s character for me to the point where I’m having trouble motivating myself to keep writing for this fandom. I figured I’d write down my thoughts and see if that helped me get into a headspace where I can ignore this episode like I do any other writing choices I’m not fond of. If anyone has some words of wisdom, I'd love to hear them.
In Derision, we learn that Marinette has some serious trauma surrounding love. When she was 13, she confessed her love to Kim and was rewarded with a box full of spiders. This “prank” understandably left her traumatized and shaken to her core. In response to that trauma, she vowed to never confess her love to another boy. Not unless she knew everything about him.
This “prank” and several others are revealed to be the fault of Chloé. As for why she’s doing this, well, we’re never given a reason why Marinette is the target. However, we are told the motivation for Chloé’s actions. Rose blames them on the fact that Chloé was abandoned by her mother. Mylène responds to this observation by pointing out that she was also abandoned by her mother, but that didn’t turn her into a bully! Which is a fair point. People react differently to trauma and trauma doesn’t justify bad behavior or undo the effects of those bad behaviors. At the most, trauma explains why the behavior is happening. A lesson that Miraculous has given us before.
In the character Félix’s titular episode, Félix shows up and starts treating Adrien poorly. This leads to this exchange between Adrien and Plagg:
Plagg: What's up with that cousin of yours? First, he searches through your things, and then, the most unforgivable thing of all, he squashes my hunk of goat's cheese under your pillow! I'd been maturing that baby for two weeks! Do you realize? Two whole weeks!
Adrien: Listen, Plagg. Félix lost his dad not so long ago, he's probably not himself.
Plagg: I'm sorry, but there's just no excuse! You never touch my cheese, and yet, you just lost your mother not so long ago, right?
And, once again, this is a fair observation! The fact that Félix’s father died does not justify Felix trying to ruin Adrien’s life. All it does is explain his motivation.
Trauma does not excuse hurting others. When trauma has negative effects on us, it’s up to us to work through those feelings either on our own or, ideally, with the help of loved ones and therapists. We are never justified in lashing out at innocents who had nothing to do with our trauma.
This brings us to the topic of Marinette.
The fact that Marinette has trauma around romance does not justify her treatment of Adrien. Breaking into his home, trying to sabotage his relationship with Kagami, and all of her other obsessive behaviors are not okay just because she was traumatized by Kim. If Chloe and Felix are not excused by their trauma, then neither is she.
So why am I only bothered by this now?
Because, before this episode, Marinette’s behavior was very clearly a joke. It was, in my opinion, a bad joke, but it was a joke and, when it comes to writing, jokes have to be looked at differently than things that are played straight.
Miraculous relies heavily on absurdist humor. That’s why you’ve got an episode where Adrien and his teenage friends throw an unchaperoned party attended by a bunch of random adults. A thing that would be horrifying and upsetting in reality, but is fine in the show because it’s clearly played as being ridiculous and over the top. I mean, just look at this scene. Anyone taking this seriously has clearly lost the plot.
Marinette’s obsession fell under the same category. Something that would be very wrong in reality, but was obviously being played up for laughs. I was always under the impression that, without the absurdist humor, she’d be significantly toned down and that’s why I just sort of tolerated it in the show. Not my idea of a good joke, but clearly a joke so meh. I can overlook it while watching the show and, when writing her, I can be true to her character while not including this level of obsession because I don’t write crack fic.
Derision changed that. It took 4.5 seasons of questionable jokes and tried to justify them. And that? That is a terrible idea. Because there is no justification for Marinette’s behavior just like there is no justification for Chloe’s behavior in the exact same episode. What they’re doing is wrong and, at best, their trauma explains their behavior. It does not justify it.
Plus, hey, remember how Derision said Kim was a terrible person for laughing at Marinette’s trauma? Isn’t that the exact same thing that we’ve all unknowingly been doing for 4.5 seasons? Kinda makes it hard to rewatch old episodes where her crush was played for laughs, doesn’t it? I hope you’ve never laughed over Marinette’s behavior because, if you have, you’ve been making fun of her trauma and so have the writers.
And that sums up why this episode really bothers me. I either have to ignore a character’s trauma or I have to accept that her trauma has apparently made her unhinged and address it. Because if her behavior is not a bad joke, then the salters are right and Marinette is a total creep. I’m trying my hardest to choose option one, but I’m struggling.
It’s not that Marinette is the only character with questionable behavior. Adrien as Chat Noir is often written as overly persistent and obnoxious when it comes to his crush. It’s not great behavior, but it’s not a consistent characterization nor is it a major flaw. I can fix it with a quick character arc about boundaries or ignore it and (in my head) say that arc happened off screen because I have no doubt that this sort of common teenage issue could be overcome with relative ease. Because when Chat Noir is put in a situation where he could clearly violate Ladybug’s boundaries? He doesn’t. He is, ultimately, respectful. He just needs to be told that respect is more than listening to the explicit “no”.
Deep-seated trauma that leads to stalking? That’s not a minor flaw. It’s a major issue that reveals the need for psychological intervention. I’m not gonna give that to a teenager and fix it with the power of friendship and communication. Nor will I give the stalker her prize. I’m gonna keep him safe because, if Marinette has this level of romance-based trauma, then she is not mentally well enough to be a relationship with someone.
You see, I’ve had people with obsessive crushes who violated my boundaries. A loved one of mine had to get the police involved because of someone’s crush on them. Stalking and obsessive behavior is not a joke. It’s traumatizing, but even though I have that trauma, Miraculous never bothered me because of how the stalking was played as a joke.
Joke's over, though. As of Derision, we are supposed to take Marinette's behavior at face value.
So, yeah. I don’t know where I go from here. It’s been a week and I just have no desire to ever touch Marinette again. If anyone has some words of advice, I’d love to hear them. And I’m sorry, but it may be a while before anything of mine updates.
#miraculous salt#marinette salt#ml season 5#ml derision#derision salt#derision spoilers#ml derision spoilers#ml s5 spoilers#ml writing salt#ml season 5 salt#miraculous season 5
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I’M CRYINGG ADRIEN REALLY PULLED AN ARTHUR ON KIM
#as he SHOULD#im looking at kim so differently now it’s kinda sad#miraculous ladybug#ml#miraculous#ml spoilers#ml s5#ml s5 spoilers#adrien agreste#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#derision spoilers
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Honestly, it's pretty sad that many fans are willing to ignore how much of a disservice episodes like Derision do to most if not all the characters in the show just because it happens to validate their salt against like a couple of them. In fact, much of the posts I've seen in the #ml fandom salt tag are just people getting mad at fans of Chloe for criticizing this episode while claiming that said fans are "defending" Chloe's bullying of Marinette.
Ah yes, being upset at an episode's portrayal of a character totally means that you're defending all of the actions of said character in the episode and beyond. It totally has nothing to do with how everything else is written and how other characters (INCLUDING Marinette) were butchered in the process, you FUCKING MORONS.
In all seriousness, though, I honestly think anyone who unironically says that Chloe is innocent and was "right" to bully Marinette are just as braindead as the people who claim that Marinette could do no wrong. Just want to point that out before someone tries to claim otherwise. I am begging you people. Stop defending bad writing just because you feel "vindicated" for it. You're going to regret it later.
#miraculous ladybug#miraculous#mlb#mlb spoilers#ml s5 spoilers#ml season 5 spoilers#ml writers salt#ml salt#ml spoliers#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#ml fandom salt#ml fandom critical
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kim: [preparing to make fun of marinette] h—
adrien: [beats the absolute shit out of him]
#interesting development this episode. i loved it so much#text post#ml derision#derision spoilers#ml derision spoilers#ml spoilers#miraculous
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adrien in derision moodboard:
#the adrien urge to defend marinette at all costs#ml spoilers#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#miraculous ladybug#ml#ml season 5#adrien agreste
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Marinette: What is wrong with me? Why am I having such trouble telling Adrien how I feel
Marinette: (Gets flashback while getting akumatized) Omg it isnt my fault! its just I was bullied for years because of a corrupt society that let chloé make my life hell for years and one of the many awful things done just happened to include confessing to my crush only for it to go so wrong that I repressed it. And these events also ended up getting my only friend who would stick up for me suspended from school. Thank goodness there isnt anything wrong with me!
Marinette:(Taking 5 seconds to think about it) Wow... it is impressive I am not a super villain with this backstory.
#ml spoilers#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#miraculous ladybug#Marinette hands down has a reason to be evil#like damn#Villain!Marinette au lets go#totally should make this what if
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After all that Marinette’s been through, I say that she absolutely deserves having a boyfriend that is more than happy to immediately kill anyone that hurts her/has hurt her.
“Wahhh Adrien is so toxic and dangerous he shouldn’t muRDER it’S WRONG-”
nah LET HIM MURDER IN THE NAME OF LOVE. HE WILL GET RID OF ANYONE WHO COMES IN BETWEEN THE HAPPINESS OF THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE.
#ml derision#ml spoilers#ml derision spoilers#miraculous ladybug#miraculous ladybug and chat noir#I AM PRO LET THEM ALL KILL IN THE NAME OF LOVE GO CRY ABOUT IT#SOMETIMES MURDER SHOULD BE LEGAL#and also i am a huge Kim fan so HAH
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So Marinette probably changed her hairstyle in favour of ponytails to resemble Soqueline since she was the only one who had the courage to stand up to Chloe and protect her-
Which is even cuter if you think that Soqueline is a huge Ladybug fan and wishes to work with her, and she already helped them a couple of times- if only she knew Ladybug has ponytails because of her, her good sould and her bravery
Also at this point it's now my personal headcanon that when this all will end and they will get the Butterfly Miraculous back Marinette will DEFINITELY give it to Soqueline
#ml derision#ml derision spoilers#mlb season 5#miraculous ladybug#ladybug#marinette dupain cheng#ml soqueline#butterfly miraculous#miraculous#mlb season 5 spoilers
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