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buddiebeginz · 3 years

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tw: child abuse/other references to abuse

Finally caught up to the current episodes of 911. I have a lot of thoughts on Buck and Maddie and their family situation from Buck Begins (and the episodes before it). From stuff I’ve seen around online I get the impression that most people loved Buck’s begin episode but it’s probably my least favorite of the show thus far along with Eddie’s ep. I love those characters but I don’t feel the show did their origin stories justice especially not when compared to the kinds of episodes the other characters had.

As for Buck’s story I was glad we were able to learn a lot of new information about his past, considering that was one of my big issues with Eddie’s ep that it felt like a lot of repetitive info we already knew. I’m glad we got to see what Buck’s life was like before he became a firefighter and learn more about his relationship with Maddie and that he had traveled a lot. Still as someone who grew up in an abusive home I feel like Buck’s origin story with his parents was handled pretty carelessly at points.

It’s kind of a common thing I’ve seen with shows though unfortunately. It just seems that most mainstream media doesn’t know how to handle abuse storylines (especially abusive parents) unless it’s storylines dealing with more commonly understood abuse like physical or sexual. If it’s abuse like Buck and Maddie endured where their life looked perfect on the surface but underneath there’s neglect and emotional abuse tv shows often give the parents an excuse (like they were grieving) and finds a way for the family to come back together at the end. Because they weren’t really “that bad”. But emotional abuse like Buck endured can sometimes be worse than physical.

It’s clear that Buck’s parents are toxic and that Maddie and Buck should both stay as far away from them as possible. I was really bothered by the scene with Buck and his parents at the firehouse. It felt like the show sort of absolved Buck’s parents of all their wrong doing and made it seem like they cared about him, like they always had when it was clear they never really did. They had him to save Daniel and when he couldn’t it’s obvious they resented him. I mean look at that whole thing with the baby box. That’s how little they cared about him. They didn’t even make a box to remember his important moments. Yes people can grow and change but they don’t do it over night and abusers rarely change.

I know there was a line Buck said (to Maddie) at the end about how he could forgive them because he’s never felt like he had a relationship with them in the first place so it didn’t really matter, which makes sense in theory but in real life that’s never how it is when you’ve grown up with abusive parents. You can try and detach yourself emotionally from them all you want but they’re still your parents, there’s still a part of you that will always hurt from never being loved the way you deserved by the people who were supposed to love you the most. Things like that don’t get wrapped up all nice and neat like like it felt like they tried to do with Buck and his parents. I am glad Buck got to express some of how he felt when they all had that dinner together but he definitely didn’t owe his parents forgiveness.

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The part I had the biggest issue with though was at the end when Buck went to see Maddie. Buck had every right to be angry and remain angry for awhile, at the very least Buck had a right to tell Maddie how he felt and express why he was angry and hurt by what she did and I felt like the show robbed him of that.

Buck walked in the door talking about how he had basically lashed out on Maddie because he knew that no matter what she would forgive him. It’s not Maddie who needed to do the forgiving it was Buck. Buck had trusted her his whole life. She had been like a defacto parent for all intents and purposes as his parents refused to be there for him the way he needed and now he finds out the one person in this world who has been a constant in his life (at least before he joined the 118) has lied to him about something huge. It makes sense he wouldn’t just shake that off. So for the show to just have him come in and act like everything is fine with him and Maddie I felt like was a huge problem and major disservice to Buck’s character and growth.

I’m not saying I didn’t want Maddie and Buck to make up, I definitely did. But Buck has never been good at putting his true feelings first and expressing himself. Buck has been selfish at times (plenty in season 1) but he has never been good about speaking up for what he needs and speaking truthfully to the people in his life about things he was dealing with. I mean he barely told Abby how he felt when he saw her again, he mostly stayed quiet and let her make it all about herself when he really should have been like “wtf why did you ghost me for no reason?”. Or when he didn’t tell everyone how hard he was pushing himself to go back to work and then developed a blood clot, or when he was scared to tell everyone he was seeing a therapist. He holds a lot back.

My point is if we’re supposed to be seeing Buck mature into a “better” version of himself he even said something about Buck 3.0 in a recent episode. How can that change happen if the show doesn’t let him evolve and let his relationships evolve. Even with the 118. I know they love him but I feel like they still see him as the hot headed screw up from season 1 sometimes. It’d be nice if they saw how much he’s grown too. (Not talking about Eddie. Eddie sees Buck more than anyone else does. He was the only one who told Buck he had every right to express how he felt and that he didn’t have to forgive his parents.)

Back to Maddie I think it was vital for Buck and for their relationship that we should have seen Buck tell her something like “it hurt that you kept that from me when you were the only family I ever really had (before the 118)”. I love Buck and Maddie’s relationship so I’m not saying I wanted some huge fight or for it to get drawn out on the show but I wanted Buck to express his pain and for him to call Maddie out on how wrongly she handled things. I know that she was also a victim of their parents abuse (not to mention everything with Doug) but that doesn’t absolve her from her lies to Buck once they both weren’t living with their parents anymore.

To be honest I don’t even understand why Maddie called her parents to come to LA. She said something about how because she has a baby on the way she wanted to reconnect with them but there is no connecting with people who are that toxic. And her need to connect with them shouldn’t have had to involve Buck if he didn’t want to see them. I definitely don’t understand why Maddie thought it was her place to tell their parents about Buck going to therapy especially without asking him. She told Buck that he should open up and tell them how he’s been feeling but like why? They clearly never cared about his feelings before and it was obvious when they all had dinner together they still don’t. At the dinner I didn’t like how Maddie seemed to be quiet most of the time or trying to just keep the peace with her parents vs standing up for Buck the way he did for her. At one point their mother got upset talking about the hospital and it sounded like she was going to talk about Daniel and Maddie stopped her. It’s like Maddie didn’t want the secret to get out to Buck either. Yet Maddie had no problem telling Chimney.

I’ve seen people saying stuff like no one better hate on Maddie. I don’t hate Maddie but I have a lot of issues with choices she made and the fact that it didn’t feel like she owned up to them to Buck at the end. It’s altered how I look at her and her relationship with Buck to a extent. Maddie lied to Buck even when she didn’t have to anymore. She told other people something that she should have only been telling Buck. She told her parents Buck’s business. She brought her parents to LA without asking Buck if he wanted to see them. She tried to excuse her parents by saying “they were grieving” . Grief is not an excuse to keep huge secrets from your children, to lie to them continually, and it’s definitely not an excuse to abuse your children.

I have empathy for what Buck’s whole family went through including his parents. I can’t imagine the kind of pain that parents would go through losing their child. But no child should have to bare the burden of their parents pain and that’s essentially what they made Maddie and Buck do.

I know this got pretty long but Buck is my favorite character I relate to him a lot, even more so after watching some of the current episodes. These eps about his family were just painful. I wanted to protect Buck because I felt like no one in his family was. I know what he was feeling in these episodes. Alone and unloved and like he couldn’t trust anyone and like no one in his family was on his side.

The whole montage at the end with Maddie and Buck which was supposed to tug on our hearts and remind us of this great bond they share as siblings ended up feeling kind of hollow to me. I think it could have been a beautiful scene if the show had used it after allowing them to talk about what had happened. It would have shown all they had been through and how they had grown and were moving forward. That they were all the (biological) family they needed and their parents didn’t matter. But since the show didn’t allow that kind of recognition the montage felt more like the show was saying we’re just going to sweep all that drama under the rug now it’s over and done with, here’s some pretty pictures. You don’t instantly move on from knowing someone you trusted lied to you your whole life. I just really wish the show would have done better for Buck in these episodes and better with telling a storyline about abuse. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion but I just felt like I needed to rant about it. If you made it down this far thanks for reading. 💗

#please do not send hate if you disagree #911 fox #evan buckley #buck #buck begins #911 s4*#911 4x05 #911 4x04 #long post #buck and maddie #buck s4 #tw: child abuse #tw: abuse #911!

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your-eyes-can-be-so-cruell · 3 years

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Also, I too was wondering why Maddy and Buck never mentioned their parents and I’m glad it wasn’t just glossed over, but there’s an actual reason. The reason being they’re arseholes. If I never see those people on my screen again, it will be too soon. I totally understand their grief and how losing anyone let alone a child can change someone, but with all due respect they are awful parents. Yes they are traumatised but they decided to take that out on their two living children. They emotionally(and physically in some cases) neglected Maddy and Buck. I was willing to see how things played out and whether they could repair things, but honestly the moment they lost me was when they said something like ‘we never gave up hope you’d come to your senses’ come to her senses? she’s a victim of domestic abuse you idiot. It wasn’t like she married a bum without a job or a serial cheater. Who speaks like that to their child? And them being all ‘we didn’t go to the wedding because we knew it was a mistake’ oh well I'm sure she’s grateful to know you were right, instead of judging her did you ever think to actually look, really look at your child? Maybe then you might have known something more major was going on than you just disliking her boyfriend. Maddy was being abused and manipulated by Doug from a young age and they were so wrapped up in themselves that they deprived her of safe environment to flee to. Maybe if they’d actually bothered to be parents she may have felt the strength to leave sooner and wouldn’t have had to kill someone to save her own life.

Btw another reason why you maybe shouldn’t be so fucking smug, your daughter almost died and is traumatised because she had to kill her ex-husband to get away, why would you bring him up especially when she’s pregnant? So no, I feel no sympathy for them whatsoever, I feel sorry for the loss of their child, but not for them because they decided to act the way they did and yet even now they won’t admit that the way they’ve acted is wrong. And this is all without even getting to the damage they caused to Buck, you didn’t want him to know why he was born, but you decided to treat him differently anyway and make him feel like a failure in everything he did? No wonder Maddy hasn’t told them much about the pregnancy, keep them as far away from that baby as possible. That may seem harsh for two people who lost a child, but they seem like really damaging people. I’m so so so glad Maddy and Buck have found a new family because they both deserve it. It was nice to have that chapter explored finally and to know about their parents, but I really don’t wanna see them again. If I hear that they are mending things in therapy that’s great but I don’t wanna see them in the show spoiling Maddy and Buck’s new found happiness.

#tw domestic abuse #9-1-1 #maddy buckley #evan buckley #don't know what the parents are called and i don't care

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himbo-buckley · 4 years

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what are your thoughts on what maddie says about her and buck's parents, that they were "good people, bad parents"? bc idk if it's just me but I can't get my head around that lmao, I can't understand how they can still be good people if they're bad parents, the two just can't go together for me, so another perspective would be interesting!

Hello friend 🥰

Oh, that is quite a question, isn’t it? Damn I just got out of work but you’re making me think deep thoughts here…

I think that is actually a question were we cannot find a unifying answer to - because like you said for you being a good person and a bad parent aren’t compatible, but for me they are. And I think we’d first have to define what everyone thinks constituents a good person and what constitutes bad parents!

For me a good example of that is Shannon Diaz who, in my opinion, is a good person. She means well and she tries hard but she is quite frankly an awful mother. Yes, she was put in horrible situation after horrible situation and she broke on that - which is something human and cannot be begrudged - but she left her child for several years and while she did try to reconnect and she was learning, she wouldn’t haven contacted Eddie on her own. She came back because the opportunity arose not because she tried to get back to them. (She could have become a good mother but she never got the chance.)

In the same vain I think Bobby pulled a lot of shit back in Minnesota but he still seemed to be a loving and kind father - so my question to you, friend, would be: do you consider Bobby a good person (the Bobby prior to Season 1 mostly)? Despite being the type of person who went to work drunk and / or high and by this endangering others and himself? Because I don’t think so yet the show frames him as a good person despite his downfalls (and I am not saying being an addict makes someone a bad person but I am saying knowingly endangering others does) - and if you think someone cannot be a good person but a bad parent, can someone who is a bad person also not be a good person?

See, one thing I learned working with children is that some people just aren’t made to be parents, and I am not talking about my time with child services, i am talking as a kindergarten teacher. Some people are very nice and they try hard but damn, parenting does not come natural to them and I worry how this will develop in the future. Like one of my mom’s is severely depressed and she might have Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy which doesn’t make her a bad person - but a bad parent at times.

And now, this is were I make you regret asking me specifically about this topic (or maybe not, who knows what your interests are) because I do have a bit of an expertise in what constitutes good / bad parenting and I will talk about it at random whether I am asked or not (and hopefully my language won’t fail me as most of my theoretical knowledge is in german, so please excuse any mistakes in technical terminology because I have to find the english equivalents and you know all those untranslatable german words? Yeah. Someone finally figure out how to translate the difference between Erziehung and Bildung please because both cannot be education and also it doesn’t really fit either):

So let’s get into it, shall we?

What makes good parents?

First up: parental relationship and parenting capabilities: several years ago the german department of family, seniors, women and youth (BmFSFJ) released a paper on what skills parents need to become good parents. There a four main skills (and I hope I translated everything correctly):

child-corresponding skills (ability to respond to the individual needs and features of the child, be it in terms of recognising potential or setting boundaries or sth else)

context-corresponding skills (ability to recognise developmental opportunities but also hinderances for the child and acting accordingly)

self-corresponding skills (being able to reflect their own behaviour as well as being willing to learn new things; also ability to regulate one’s emotions)

action-corresponding skills (trust in ones own ability and effectiveness; being consistent, both in their own actions as well as in response to others actions)

You might have heard of Kurt Levin or Diana Baumrind or someone else doing research into parenting styles. Generally there are four main ones, which, if we use Baumrind, differentiate on the aspects of control and demand

(here is a graph from wikipedia on this)

(I consider this fairly self explanatory but I will get into it in a bit a little more, soooo)

Now of course parenting isn’t just about the parents and what they do - children also have needs (and yes there is a lot of overlap but I am doing this right, okay?)

To quote my government again (because the paper was actually quite good, okay?) children want autonomy (a chance to do things themselves), expertise (a chance to develop their own skills) and relatedness (that one was very hard to translate but this came the closest; the idea is children strive for social connections, a sense of trust in themselves and reliability)

Also Urs Fuhrer defined 5 basic needs children have which are:

feeling of shelteredness and reliable love (I won’t explain this further except: google Harry Harlow and try not to cry like I do every time I am reminded of this monster of a man)

physical security and intactness (self explanatory, right?)

individual and developmentally suitable experiences (yes, children need to be socialised but it needs to be based on the individual child and how it learns best and all that)

boundaries and structure (CHILDREN WANT BOUNDARIES!!!! ALWAYS!!! CHILDREN WANT YOU TO TELL THEM YES OR NO, they need adults to help them navigate the world! Part of feeling secure is having someone who will tell you no and don’t do this; boundaries protect from danger, they represent support and orientation, they protect someone’s dignity (both the child’s and the parent’s), they give something to chafe against on our way to adulthood (because listen, Erikson wasn’t wrong, a lot of development happens in adversity, we find out who we are in contrast to other people)

a secure attachment (most people have heard about Bowlby and his theory of attachment, right? There are several types, though we are born with certain abilities for attachment and then learn how to attach from our parents, we model relationships on this, attachment determines our feeling of security and our thrive for exploration as children)

And I’ll leave the theoretical at this and go on to talk about the Buckley’s now, okay?

(and try to figure out if any of this has an actual point, uuups)

As for the specific situation of Mr and Mrs Buckley, let’s first see what we know of them, okay? (It’s barely anything) (half of it is assumed)

they are both alive

they are (probably) still married

they warned Maddie about Doug (meaning they somewhat cared)

they weren’t physically abusive and most likely also not emotionally

they probably live on the east coast in Pennsylvania

Buck may still be in contact with them

Maddie considers them good people but bad parents

they accepted losing contact with at least one of their children

Maddie doesn’t want them to know about Doug

That’s it!

Now, I personally think they might be very conservative, possibly unsupportive of their children. They might have had plans for their children’s life Maddie and Buck didn’t agree with, they might have been the types to not listen to their children, maybe they worked a lot. Probably fairly impatient, possibly disinterested in their children. Not good at the parenting capabilities.

Based on their children’s issues I’d say authoritarian or neglectful parenting style (though not abusive because it would be a redcon of Maddie’s background), meaning most definitely unresponsive though I cannot make up my mind whether they were demanding or undemanding, as both these styles - even when not so bad they are abusive and / or endangering to the child - make insecure, dependent and unhappy adults (like the children turn into those once they grow up), which does kinda fit with Buck specifically, right?

Though tbh I don’t think the Buckley parents were that horrible. I know fandom has taken the idea and run with it, mainly because after three seasons we know virtually nothing about them aside from some throwaway lines and all the issues we see in their children.

Now, why do I say this?

One, Maddie is a fairly capable adult despite everything that happened to her and even being as resilient as she is, she still has too few issues for how horrible fandom thinks the Buckley parents are

Two, while Buck has a lot of issues, being cocky and having problems with intimacy and being a bit directionless and still needing a parental figure in your mid-20s doesn’t seem that uncommon to me? Like the only really deep issue I’d say he has (that have to be caused by something deeper) are his abandonment issues (and connected to that intimacy). And it’s been implied they are caused by Maddie leaving to go to College which does paint the picture that he doesn’t have a good relationship with his parents but honestly, that sometimes happens, right?

(Also, and this is where my professional background comes in, I don’t like how everyone jumps to the worst possible conclusions about them, simply because I feel it sends the idea that only if the worst things happened to you, you have certain issues which is wrong. Sometimes small things will trigger something way larger in us and that should not be invalidated.)

And okay, I am getting off topic again (but again, my profession lies here) but what I am trying to say is this:

I do think Mr and Mrs Buckley were bad at parenting because they demanded too much but gave too little (emotionally) and I don’t think Buck is really in contact with them but I also don’t think that makes them necessarily bad people. (just bad parents)

I think Maddie and Buck weren’t as close back when they were children as they are now (at least not after Maddie moved to College) because the Buck we know would not accept a sister he is very close to simply no longer having contact with him for three years without trying to figure out why.

I do think they can’t have been that bad mainly because of how good Maddie and Buck are. Listen, I believe in resilience and already being born with a certain personality and traits which shapes how our environment reacts to us, but which is also influenced and changed by our environment ! (Nature vs. nurture, ya’ll) Now I know I said we find and develop ourselves in adversity but not just. We also need someone to foster and support and reward certain traits or we lose them and this is especially true for being kind and heroic!

Buck especially has shown way to little anger or capability for violence for how the fandom likes to write his parents, which considering his general character and also the way he looks - just doesn’t work! (Because generally especially boys raised in abusive families emulate this behaviour and Buck just - doesn’t! Which considering how “fuck toxic masculinity” Buck is most of the time doesn’t make sense because being tall and buff would make the opposite easier for him and would make it the better strategy for survival, so this would be the behaviour he would have learned)

(unless our writers say fuck being realistic and fuck psychology)

His parents had to have done something right, because Maddie will have left for College by the time he was 12 / 13 probably and we know they consider this her abandoning him meaning they probably weren’t really in contact then and while the first years of your life ARE VERY important for who you become later (urgh, yes, I’ll admit it, Sigmund Freud, the most overrated theorist did get SOME things right) they aren’t everything and you develop for longer and also a young girl like Maddie would have been would have not been self-reliant and stable enough to raise her literal baby brother in a way that made him resilient enough to become the person Buck has become despite her leaving him twice

Not to mention: considering the person we know Maddie is - if their parents really were that horrible she wouldn’t have left Buck with them, she would have taken him with her!

ANYWAYS!

Okay, tbh, I have no idea if any of that answered your question, but I did spend nearly two hours on it so enjoy?

I really don’t have a good answer to your question because we really don’t know enough and what we know doesn’t fully gel with each other and urgh, I don’t know friend despite this being the one thing I actually have some knowledge on!

I’m not even sure any of this makes sense and I am so sorry about that! I was trying, friend, but sadly an answer eludes me

Guess I should have just ended after saying: we cannot find a unifying answer to this because we each have individual definitions of good and bad in regards to people?

(Now, for everyone who read all of this? I love you and thank you and sorry! Please have a great day while I go cry in the shower now because I this ask drained me and also Harry Harlow)

EDIT: I wrote attachment issues when I wanted to say abandonment issues, shit!

#omg someone messaged me am I cool yet #buck meta #maddie meta #buckley meta #911 meta #meta #I honestly think there is a bit more evidence in canon to support Eddie having abusive parents than Buck #911 #911 fox #evan buckley #maddie kendall #the buckley siblings #this ask messed me up a bit because I feel like I should know these answers but I don't #this is what I am supposed to be good at why do I not know this?#textpost #I am so sorry Anon I really tried #my meta

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