#just wanted to write Billy coming out to Max because we as a fandom kinda decided that she already knew bc of that one vague convo | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

hargrove-mayfields · 3 years

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Back when things were still easy, Billy and Max used to have sibling days on the weekends when Neil wouldn’t be home, setting aside their issues to have just one day that was meant for doing something fun together.

The tradition had been dropped after the move to Hawkins, and Max thinks that’s where a lot of the strain on their relationship comes from. Without those designated times to let go of some of the tension building between them, they fall to pieces.

There’s one day in particular where it’s just Max at home all by herself, her mother and Neil having gone on a trip to the city she opted out of, when Billy shows up much earlier than he said he would be back, ruining the calm when he slammed the front door so hard a picture frame fell off the wall.

Neither of them say a word to the other, all she gets is an apologetic and glossy looking glance for the noise as he storms past her like she isn’t even there.

She doesn’t see Billy again for a long time after that, just hears the angry music blaring in his room. By now, she’s wisened up enough to know that meant he was probably crying in there, and though she doesn’t know what happened, she feels bad.

It’d been far too long since they acted anything like real siblings, not that they were actually related, but they used to be just as close, so after her brother’s been brooding for literal hours, she knows she wants to do something.

Her opportunity to bring it up comes when Billy makes his grand appearance at her door, stopping by to ask if she ate dinner just so he, quote ‘wouldn’t get any shit for it.’ She nods in agreement and asks, “Do you know what day it is, Billy?”

He shrugs, “28th of June.”

“Well, doy, but it’s also Friday.” Billy raises an eyebrow, missing the point, and Max rolls her eyes. “Friday. You know, like, the one day we get to hang out.”

Too cool for that stuff anymore apparently, he scoffs and leans against the doorframe, and she just knows he’s going to say something snarky, so she turns the puppy dog eyes up a notch, “Please? It’ll be fun.”

It works, Billy sighs way over dramatic and steps into her room, throwing himself down onto her beanbag chair. She can’t contain the smile on her face when he asks with fake defeat, “What did you want, shitbird?”

“I want a makeover day. Like we used to do.”

“Not gonna happen.”

“Why?” She crosses her arms, “Just because that’s what I want to do?”

He fixes her with a look that says ‘seriously?’, and explains, an edge of frustration to his voice, “No, because you know what’ll happen if I’m struttin’ around in nail polish and shit when Neil gets back.”

“They’re not supposed to come back until like, Monday though,” in response to her excuses, he mimics her in crossing his arms over his chest, so she tries harder to reason with him, “And we can always just take it off when we’re done.”

“That’s just a waste of your stuff, then.”

“Come on, Billy, please?” she’s out of actual arguments and he’s winning, so she brings out the big guns, the little sister privilege, the one surefire way she knows will always knock her brother off guard, “I miss you.”

He squints at her, seeing through the attempted guilt trip, but he can’t muster a frown, and he must know it wasn’t all fake, because he says, “Whatever.”

She knows that’s his version of a yes and he’s just too proud to admit he caved, so she squeals and claps her hands together, taking off like a shot to dig under her bed for the stowed away beauty kit. It’s a little wicker basket filled to the brim with nail polish and makeup, the same one they’d used years ago before everything went wrong, and it makes her happy, bringing the old thing back out.

She stops to put a record in her player, choosing Queen as the closest thing to a middle ground between their respective music tastes, they at least both weren’t supposed to listen to it, and drops down into the other chair beside Billy.

On the latch-hook rug in front of them, she starts to empty the basket, lining up all her brightly colored bottles of nail polish, slightly dried out after months of not using them. “What color?”

“Why do I have to go first?” Billy asks. All Max has to say in response is a know-it-all “Because I said so.”

“Fine. You pick.” The moment he says it he looks like he regrets it, Max is notoriously bad at making decisions, but she ignores him and starts holding up bottles anyways.

First, after few minutes deliberation, she chooses a pretty dark green, and he scrunches his nose and doesn’t say anything. She picks a purplish color, which he tosses away on the bed, a very firm ‘no’ that makes Max giggle. Then she gives him a bright orange bottle, and he holds in front of his face, studying it before turning that one down too.

“God, if I knew you’d be so annoying I would’ve just painted them all the colors.” She remarks, lining up her polishes so she could do just that.

“That’s actually probably not a very good idea, kiddo.” Looking a little panicked, he digs through the bottles himself, settling on one he pulls away and stares at for a second before handing it to her and telling her, “Just do ‘em red.”

It confuses her, but she agrees regardless, and makes him turn in his seat so he’s facing her and his hands are flat on the floor. His hands are a little shaky, so her paint job isn’t the best, she even drips some on the carpet, which she hopes her mother won’t notice, but Billy doesn’t say anything about the mess.

With his nails done she moves onto his hair, she wants to do double braids like how he taught her to do in her own hair, so she shoves his arm to get him to turn around. “Scoot.”

He lets her push him around until he’s in the right place that she can reach his hair, but once he’s facing the far wall he tells her, “Don’t you dare use that brush on my hair, Maxine.”

“Jeez, relax. I’m not gonna mess up your princess curls.” She mocked, but she still went for the comb to run through his hair instead.

She waited until she could get it through without catching on any tangles before bothering trying to talk to him. When Billy was upset, he tended to clam up, but she didn’t particularly like feeling awkward in the silence, leaving all the talking to the record player. “Can we talk about why you were mad earlier?”

“Nope.”

“Would you tell me if I told you about my day?” She tries, but he shuts it down again with an “Unlikely.”

“I’ll tell you anyways.” Max didn’t know what had happened with Billy, but she knew she hadn’t had the greatest morning herself either. “I had to ask Lucas to bring me home early because me and Mike got in a fight.”

Billy snorted, and spoke with just as much sarcasm as Max had used on him. She learned that from him anyways. “You and Mike? No.”

“Yeah. He was being a total ass about El, trying to like, own her or something, so I told him to lay off ‘cause that’s totally not fair.”

She knew that Billy, having graduated and turned 18 now, was probably getting a little old for this type of drama, but he was a good listener, no matter how much he pretended not to care, always giving little bits of insight and saying things to make her laugh.

She continues, “Well, anyways he like, totally bit my head off for sticking up for her, so then I told him he was just a miserable mouth breather who’s jealous of El being happy, and he tried to kick me out.”

Billy laughed at that, muttering a little ‘ow’ when the action made Max pull his hair, “But you left before he could kick you out right?”

“Duh.” She sighs a little, the fun part of the story over. “Then when we pulled up outside, Lucas said something stupid about it being my fault or whatever, so I dumped him again.”

“Good. I told you not to take any shit from them anymore.” Billy had been less than happy with her friends a lot recently, when she’d come home from school or from hanging out upset over something they said. They never meant to hurt her feelings, but Billy didn’t like it all the same, and made her promise she’d stand up for herself a little more. Like she did to him.

“Yeah, I guess.” It makes her feel light on the inside, to know Billy was proud of her for following his advice, in his own way at least. “So? What happened to you?”

He shrugs again, and blows her off, “It’s nothing.”

“You were crying.”

“Yeah, and it’s none of your business.”

“Maybe not,” she fumbles with the braid and loses it, Billy’s stupid uneven mullet making it way too hard to braid so many different lengths of hair, “But I’m like, an expert now. El says she likes my advice.”

Under his breath, Billy mutters, “‘Course she does.”

Max purses her lips and pretends she didn’t hear that before continuing her offer, “Anyways, I can always try to help.”

“Listen, it’s just stupid dating stuff. Nothin’ you need to be worrying about.”

“But I’m a girl. I can give advice about that.” She thinks about it for a second, “I mean, I know more about being a girlfriend than having one, but it’s probably about the same.”

“Maybe.” Billy mumbles, focusing all his attention on picking at the nail polish that had missed the edges of his nails, and just from the way he tensed up she can tell she’d overstepped Billy’s boundaries in some way or another.

She finishes of the braid she had already started over twice now and puts a blue scrunchie on the end of it, giving him a minute.

When she starts combing out the rest of his hair is when Billy speaks again, not a drop of his distinctly Billy attitude in his words as he admitted softly, “You know, shitbird, I never said anything ‘bout having a girlfriend.”

That’s confusing to her at first, because he had just told her it was a dating thing, but Max’d been hearing all the nasty things Neil said about Billy for years now, and while she might just be a kid, might be the clueless and annoying little sister, she still knew the weight of what he’d just admitted to her.

It had always made her sad, to know Neil didn’t really like Billy, all the mean words he used, ones she wouldn’t dare repeat, to describe Billy and his friends, all the lies he told about him behind his back. But she doesn’t buy it, what her asshole step-dad had to say.

Her brother was cool, and she liked hanging out with him, when he wasn’t being such a jerk. The fact that he had a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend didn’t change that in the least bit.

She hums, trying to gather words and, her voice strained against the outburst of happiness, says “See? I can totally help with boy stuff.”

#billy hargrove #max mayfield #billy and max #harringrove #it’s implied harringrove at least because Steve is the boyfriend in question #story by ej!#ej writer #this is really sloppy but I wanted to just get this outta my drafts so here ya go #it was also initially from a much larger story #I just decided this was the only part I like #if you take note of the date tho I think y’all can probably tell where I was going with this #just wanted to write Billy coming out to Max because we as a fandom kinda decided that she already knew bc of that one vague convo #but like that stuff is really hard to pick up on when you’re the clueless little sister #(trust me lol)#I think it’s more something like maybe she snitched on him for doing smthn neil knew was Bc he was gay but she didn’t #and she never put the pieces together until he told her #featuring (subtle) autistic Max bc when doesn’t my writing #and colorblind Billy if you squint with the nail polish

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lesbianrobin · 3 years

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i think season three is good, but there are a few things about it that absolutely enrage me to an overdramatic amount, and here i shall list them lol. also this will be in more than one ask because i have too many thoughts. ok, the first is how hopper went from trying his best to threatening children, having that "girls can't choose who they date they aren't smart" mindset, gaslighting Joyce/not believing her when she has basically always been correct, and tricking her into a date?? 1/? lol

next, i hate how they went "here, take billy's sad childhood and him saving el and forgive his racist actions! go! FETCH!" and we were supposed to be like "yayyy! what a nice guy!!!" you know? like... a sad childhood isn't redemption? it may vaguely explain things, but not excuse them? i also was disappointed with el and max's friendship being based off them being mean to their (admittedly mediocre) boyfriends? like- yall are in 8th grade dating sucks why are we being mean just communicate? 2/?

and it felt like max and el's friendship was supposed to come of as this "wow FEMINISM!" thing, and it really wasn't at all? i mean i could totally see kids perceiving this "girls rule boys drool" thing as empowering, but i just wish that if they are going to go the whole (adorable) "sleepovers, wonder woman, shopping, normal, not-supernaturalish (if that makes sense)" female friendship, they didn't base it on... well... men?

(i'm sorry i'm saying so much lol) they are also setting up problems for character development and writing. if they continue to add characters for no reason, characters are going to keep loosing purpose because there are less roles to fill than actual characters. Admittedly, the characters they add for seemingly no reason are usually so fun that i end up shutting my mouth and taking back my complaint? like max, robin, erica, not you billy, alexi, heather, etc. 4/? (i'm so sorry i'm hyperfixated)

and don'T EVEN GET ME STARTED (lmao i've clearly started) ON THE RUSSIAN STUFF?! LIKE WHAT!??!? WHO IS THIS TERMINATOR BITCH AND WHY WAS ~HE~ THE ONE TO KILL OF A NEW LOVABLE SIDE CHARACTER??? AND WHY IS HOPPER RECKLESSLY KILLING??? (sorry i am yelling the anger is not at you, you seem lovley) LIKE WHAT?!? tHIS TOXIC MASCULINITY HOPPER CRAP NEEDS TO CEASE PLEASE, I BEG. anyway there was no point to making the terminator guy other than a reference. ok i think i'm done?? thanks for listening lol.

so i’m gonna be honest man the only thing i agree with you on is that the way they handled billy was bullshit. i wholeheartedly disagree with all the rest but i’m very glad you got it all off your chest kjdcnmnd like. i’m gonna share my thoughts on some of this and i REALLY don’t mean to be rude i just like talking about stranger things so please don’t take this as me trying to argue or whatever bc that is not my intention!!

so i don’t think hopper having a problem with el and mike has anything to do with him thinking el isn’t smart or that she can’t make her own decisions. el’s a kid, and she’s only been allowed to be a kid for like... two years, max? he’s worried that she’s growing up too fast, mourning the inevitable end of her childhood which has just barely begun, and yeah, he’s overprotective, too, but he’s pretty clearly painted as being in the wrong for how he handled things. he changed his ways by the end of the season, and through the speech he wrote it’s clear that his issues stemmed from his own fears of her growing up, not from him thinking she was stupid. change isn’t typically sudden or easy, and i really do think that hopper was trying his best at the start of s3 (he lets el hang out with her friends as much as she wants, trusts her to roam freely and keep herself safe, etc). he just still had a little way to go.

i also don’t personally see how hopper “tricked” joyce into a date when she agreed to go and then didn’t show up. joyce is an adult, and she was perfectly capable of telling hopper no (she actually did tell him no once, and then didn’t object later). he was never threatening or manipulative to her. he was a total bitch after he got stood up, and they did overdo it, but he most certainly wasn’t gaslighting her. he genuinely didn’t think that there was something going on! he thought she was paranoid due to her trauma, trauma that he personally has been through and is sympathetic to. he still helped her check things out, even when he didn’t think there was a real problem, because he wanted to give her peace of mind. while you can argue he was dumb or disrespectful not to believe her, he didn’t have any intention of making joyce feel crazy or of deceiving her.

and the reason that the kids aren’t communicating well in s3 is because they’re... well, kids. have you ever seen an eighth-grade relationship where both parties communicate maturely about their problems? if they were older i would agree that the conflict was dumb, but it makes perfect sense for kids their age. i also don’t really have an issue (personally) with how the elmax friendship started. the whole point is that el came to max asking for dating advice, and max shows el that she doesn’t have to revolve her whole life around her boyfriend, she can develop her own identity and be her own person.

a lot of people in the fandom share your trepidation about adding new characters, so i’m definitely outnumbered here, but i don’t personally have a problem with it at all. i think alexei could have been better-utilized, but his existence didn’t interfere or detract from anything with existing characters. in fact, i think he gave murray some more development and allowed for more dynamic interactions between joyce and hopper. max and robin were both “new characters,” and i’m not being hyperbolic when i say they’re two of the best-written and best-acted characters in the show. when i go back and watch s1 now, things just feel wrong without max, and robin is a revelation. i think that adding new characters makes the world of stranger things feel more organic and allows for the stakes to remain somewhat high without making the writers feel like they have to kill off one of our beloved OGs.

russian terminator... yeah you’re right that shit was weird as fuck. i don’t think hopper killing the dudes down in the base was “toxic masculinity” or anything though like he’s a veteran and the guys he killed were all soldiers and he was just trying to get to the gate to shut it down no matter the cost, yknow? it was a matter of life and death, and with a giant monster trying to kill his daughter i think him killing anyone in the way of him preventing that is kind of... fair. but yeah i don’t really get the point of terminator guy like it was so fucking weird sdknckdnm

thanks for the asks!!! the fandom’s been kinda dead lately and it’s so fun to still be able to talk about st!!

#long post #stranger things #em talks #himbos-are-my-lifeblood

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flowers-creativity · 5 years

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Let’s Talk

Fandom: Stranger Things Characters: Dustin Henderson, Max Mayfield, Claudia Henderson (mentions of Lucas Sinclair, Mike Wheeler, Will Byers, Eleven | El | Jane Hopper) Warnings: None Summary: There was something going on with Dustin, and Max thought someone needed to talk to him. She might not be the best person for the job but Max was someone who did what needed to be done. So talk they would.

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Dustin is someone who, as Max had learned, carried his heart on his sleeve most of the time. It is hard to miss when he is upset or angry – he isn't like Mike who gets broody or withdrawn or like Lucas who tends to explode.

So she couldn't help but notice when, a few weeks into the new school year, his behaviour changed.

He made it through the school day okay, if a bit more quiet than usual, but he kept blowing them off half the time when they wanted to hang out, and when he was with them, he was even quieter than Will or Jane, looking as if he was somewhere else with his thoughts entirely.

Max knew the others have noticed, too, has seen the boys exchange worried looks even as they pretend to be annoyed by Dustin's flakiness. But she didn't know if they intend to do something about it, and as his strange behaviour neared the one-week mark, she decided that someone needed to. So she'd go and talk to Dustin.

Logically, she knew she probably wasn't the best person for the job. Of the whole group, she had known him the shortest time, even shorter than Jane, in a sense. And she wasn't one for serious talking, too – but she was for doing what needs to be done, and she didn't believe in letting others do your work for you. So, as it was her idea, she'd be the one to go and talk to him.

***

Mrs Henderson opened the door and smiled at her. “Oh, hi Max!”

“Hi, Mrs Henderson. Is Dustin home?” She was pretty sure he was. The boys had planned to meet up – without her and Jane today – but he had blown them off again. Lucas had sounded as if he was having a hard time hanging onto his annoyance when he had told her so on the phone, and she had almost asked him to come with her. But she didn't want to crowd Dustin, thinking it was likelier he'd talk to just one of them, and the other boys wanted to meet up anyway. So here she was, without him.

“Yes, he's in his room,” Mrs Henderson said, stepping aside to let her in. “Just go on in, sweetheart.”

Max thanked her and knocked at Dustin's door just moments later, waiting until he answers: “Yeah?” Opening the door, she found him on his bed, reading a comic.

He looked up as she entered, surprised. “Hi Max!” he greeted, sitting up. “What's up?”

She walked over to his desk to plop down on his chair. “Lucas said you didn't want to meet the guys today,” she said.

Dustin's normally open face closed off, as if the shutters were coming down. “I wasn't in the mood,” he replied, his tone short.

“Yeah, well,” Max said, “you haven't been in the mood for much lately, it seems.” She crossed her arms, studying him closely.

“So what?” Dustin returned her gaze with narrowed eyes.

“So I thought it's time to talk to you and find out what's bothering you.”

Dustin's face darkened further. “I'm not in the mood for that, either.” At least he didn't deny something was bothering him – he'd have to know she'd never believe such a baldfaced lie.

Max snorted. “Maybe so. But I'm here now, so let's talk,” she told him, her tone a challenge.

Dustin set his jaw stubbornly. “And what if I don't?” he asked.

“Tough luck. I'm not gonna leave until I know what's up with you.” Max matched his stubbornness with ease but added in a more conciliatory tone, in an attempt to convince him: “C'mon, you know we've all noticed something is wrong. The guys and Jane are worried, too. Just talk to me – please?”

Dustin held her stare for another while, looking as if he was sorely tempted to call for his mom and have her thrown out. But bit by bit, the fight leeched out of his expression. And finally, he slumped against his bed's headboard and mumbled: “I got a letter from my father.”

“Oh, that's--” May almost said something stupid like “great” or “nice” but one look at Dustin's face made the words die in her throat. It was obvious that Dustin wouldn't appreciate such a remark – he didn't think it was great, and both his expression and tone said so. She quickly amended: “That's not something that happens often, I guess?”

Dustin's laugh was short and devoid of any humour. “Not often? Try never,” he said. “The last time I heard from him was before we moved here. So that's going on six years now. Not even a card for Christmas or birthdays.”

Max opened her mouth, closed it again. “Wow,” she finally said, an insufficient comment if there ever was one. She thought of her own dad who she didn't hear from nearly often enough – but then, he'd never wanted to be out of her life, that was what her mother wanted. Not to hear from him for what's almost half a life for a kid their age …

“Yeah,” Dustin said, kicking at the comics strewn over his bed. Silence settled over them again, and Max was unsure how to break it or if to break it at all. She had the feeling she didn't have to fear that Dustin wouldn't talk any more now that he'd started, so she tried to give him the time he needed.

… For a bit, but in the end, it was still her who broke the silence again. “So what did he write to you about?” she asked.

Dustin scowled down at his knees. “He told me he's got a new family,” he replied. “Like, a new wive, and she's got kids, too, and they'll have a baby soon.” He took a deep breath, and then it spilt out of him, so fast that Max had no chance to interject: “Isn't that the biggest bullshit ever? He needs to get a new family to remember that he already has a son?! He should take his new family and be happy with them, that's fine by me! Why does he need to come bother me about it? Writing shit like “I'd be a great big brother”! He doesn't even know how I am, hasn't seen me in years, so who knows what I'd be like as a big brother?! He's been so good at fucking off and leaving Mom and me alone for so long, why couldn't he keep doing that?”

He finally stopped, breathing hard, his hands clenching the bedspread. Max didn't say anything, was at a loss what to say, so all she could do was slipping off the chair and padding over to the bed, sitting down on the edge next to him. “You're right, that's really bullshit,” she said. “Parents suck sometimes. Or, well, in some cases all the time.” She bumped her shoulder against his, gently.

Dustin leaned against her shoulder a bit and nodded. “I don't get it,” he mumbled. “How can you do that, marry someone and have kids and everything, and then you end up hating each other and not caring about your kids any more? Until you remember one day, and you think you can just come back and pick them up like it's a doll you put in a corner and forgot about?”

Max sighed. “I don't know, and I kinda hope I'll never understand that.” She thought of Steve's parents who were never around (and Steve didn't seem to appreciate too much the times they were), of Will's dad, who he never talked about but she'd gathered enough from the others to know he was a dick like Neil, maybe not quite as bad but close, and her own mom who didn't seem to care or even notice how much she hated her stepdad and Billy. Parents really sucked sometimes, and she could do nothing but hope she'd never be one of those.

“True.” Dustin was quiet again, looking exhausted by his outburst. She hoped it's been a relief to let it all out.

But she was really bad at that “letting him take his own time” thing. “What does your Mom say?”

“I didn't tell her about it.” Seeing her shocked look, he raised his hands defensively. “I got the mail when that letter came, so she didn't see it. And yes, I know I need to tell her.” He raked a hand through his curls, biting his lip. “It's just … I mean, I don't remember a lot of it because Mom tried to keep me out of it as best as she could, and hey, I wasn't even eight yet, but the whole divorce business was pretty nasty, and I know she was really scared about my father taking me away from her.” His expression was helpless, lost. “I just don't wanna make her worry.”

“Well, I've got bad news for you, Henderson,” she told him bluntly. “Because I'm quite sure if the Party and I have noticed something's wrong, your Mom has, too.” There were parents who didn't suck, after all, and Mrs. Henderson was one of them, always doting on her son (and his friends and her cat and anyone she thought needed some mothering), telling him she loved him and providing endless amounts of hugs and kisses to the point of annoyance, so she was very sure she had noticed Dustin's bad mood – and it would certainly make her worry as much as it had his friends.

Dustin groaned, burying his head in his hands for a moment. “Yeah, I know.” His voice was muffled until he raised his head again and continued: “Maybe she can help me figure out what to do, at least, 'cause I've been trying to do that all week and still don't know what to write. I mean, shit, if it was only about him, I'm really tempted to not reply at all, see how he likes that. But--,” he trailed off. “But I'll have a little sibling soon.”

Max grinned. “You're such a softie.” She slung an arm around his shoulders. “Hey. Maybe your dad doesn't know you but I do. And I can tell you you'd be a pretty great big brother.”

Dustin returned the grin, putting his arm around her waist and giving it a squeeze. “And you're calling me a softie when you're going all mushy on me, Mayfield?”

***

A while later, he brought her to the door. Leaning against it while she was putting her skateboard down, he looked at her seriously. “Max,” he said, “thank you.”

She smiled, cocking her head at him. “No problem. But you should talk to the others, or else you'll have someone at your door for a repeat performance of that talk soon,” she told him. “I'd bet Lucas is next.”

Dustin laughed, and it was good to hear that it sounded more like himself than it had all week. “It's cute that you have so much faith in your boyfriend,” he shot back, “but my money would be on Wheeler.” He quickly held up his hands before she could glower at him. “I'm gonna talk to them. Promised.”

“Good.” She gave him a stern look but there was a grin hiding beneath it. “See you tomorrow, Henderson.” She waved and pushed herself off. That didn't go too badly, she thought as she skated home. Family sucked sometimes, but at least there were friends.

#stranger things #Let's talk #let's talk story #dustin henderson #Max Mayfield

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redwhale · 7 years

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Belated post by a few days, and I feel like this is completely stating the obvious, but why not. It usually takes a lot for me to get off my ass and say something because -

a) mildly lazy

b) kind of a coward

c) see again point a & point b, and bold and emphasize them times infinity.

Still, I have been really frustrated and disappointed to see people trying to shut down and box in discussion within the Black Sails Tumblr community. There have been some really patronizing comments this week, which is a shame. I also hadn't realized there were considerably worse comments and actual harassment happening prior to this, over a much longer period of time. This is disgusting, and is completely unacceptable - especially over fictional characters in a fictional story. Seriously, what the hell.

To try and shut down discussion, especially from such a fantastic fandom with so many thoughtful and eloquent people with different perspectives to offer, seems like such a waste. As I've seen many people say over the last week, discussion does not inherently equal hate. Black Sails is a television series in particular where there are few easy discussions to be had in any regard. There is also so much that Black Sails intentionally leaves up to the audience to fill in the blanks. Black Sails has a lot of purposeful ambiguity, too, whether it be plot points, characters, relationships, even the ending* itself. To say that things must only be interpreted in one way goes against so much of what Black Sails itself has established.

The very first episode of Black Sails introduces us to our complicated leading men, see exhibits dashing and morally ambiguous Captain Flint and the charming rogue John Silver. By the end of the first episode they've both killed another man to save themselves. We completely understand where they're both coming from, but Black Sails neatly sets up a precedent of what to expect with the characters on the show for the rest of the series. The characters and stories of Black Sails are messy and morally gray, with so many layers and perspectives given for these complicated and beautifully written characters. Again, Black Sails is not a show where there are easy discussions to be had.

I mean, I knew my relationship with Black Sails was going to be fascinating and pretty gosh darn complicated when, as of the second episode, my new fav had sold out my other new fav which also benefited my other fav (er, Eleanor, Max, and Flint, respectively). By the end of season one my fav had broken the neck of my other fav (that one is pretty obvious, still not over it). Eleanor and Vane is another complicated mess of heartbreak and devastation. The S4 finale is just a disastrously complicated mess of favs vs. favs. Sometimes you can let the actions of some characters go, sometimes you can't. It's all good, we all bring our own experiences and perspectives to the table when we watch and discuss something. It's magnified by infinity where it comes to a show like Black Sails, where again from Ep.1 it was established that there are no easy characters, and no easy answers. Needless to say, all of this understandably doesn't always make for an equally easy discussion.

I find it a frustrating to say people can't talk about things, or should only talk about things or interpret things in one way. It denies some really interesting discussions and opportunities, especially when Black Sails' modus operandi is to wallow in complex gray characters and decisions like it is a happy little pig in morally gray mud. Kudos to the brilliant writing on Black Sails, I think there are justifiably so many ways to interpret a decision and characters, whether it be Flint, Silver, Billy, Max, Eleanor, Vane, Jack, so on and so forth.

Sometimes you're not going to agree with all of what you see and read, and that's a-okay. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but everyone has their own interesting perspective, and I'd rather read discussions I don't agree with than not have them at all. If you don't like something, reply (hopefully politely), or sigh dramatically at the tragic injustice of the world with a mild grumpy swoon, and move on. For there to be harassment, down to people's inboxes/etc over fictional characters, is just truly baffling. I know it seemingly comes part and parcel with anonymity and any community on the internet, but I'll never not be annoyed and completely disgusted by it. Seriously, again, what the hell. How does anyone justify to themselves that this is an acceptable thing to do.

In what also seems to be an apparent revelatory concept, you can really love a character and not agree with all their decisions, or only agree with parts of them, but still understand where they are coming from. I would happily crawl over broken glass for Flint and Silver as the beautifully written characters they are - though if someone would give me some heavy-duty painkillers first, I would be much obliged - but I don't love every decision they've made along the way. I think there is so much delicious, complex, and fascinating discussion to be had on the character arcs and choices of these two men alone, let alone the rest of the cast. For any plot point, discussion, or character to only be allowed to be rigidly seen in one way, and for anything else to be dismissed as hate is really frustrating, and undermines the spirit of Black Sails itself in all its complex tragedy. Again, ambiguity and complex is kinda Black Sails' very long middle name.

And a loud and frustrated drawn out urrggh at discussing characters and plot points and dismissing it as ship wars.** What if - and bear with me - you can discuss characters and plot points and yet still enjoy multiple relationships and dynamics at once! !!!!

Nothing above isn't anything that hasn't been said before in the Black Sails community, let alone any other community/fandom from the beginning until the end of time. That being said, I didn't want anyone to think that by not saying anything, I supported that kind of behavior. I'm still frustrated at the possible loss of interesting discussion about these fascinating characters because people understandably want nothing to do with being harassed. I've already seen it happen at least three times in the last few days, with these users concerned that they're going to be harassed. Again, harassment is unacceptable. Also, the joys of fandom on Tumblr are the a) interesting meta, b) devastating head-canons, c) soul-destroying gifs. I also understand that people are here to relax and not have discussions, and that's fine, too. Positively, thank you to all the cool people on all sides of any discussion for being polite re: the back and forth on any character or plot points. I've seriously seen so many facets to so many characters I'd missed previously thanks to discussions around here, and also had a lot of additional heartbreak over moments or aspects I wouldn't have picked up on.

(...less thanks for that, by the way. Ow.)

*Silver not killing Flint is probably the only plot point in Black Sails that everyone on Tumblr can unanimously agree on, myself included. Ha. **The fact I just had to type the actual words 'ship wars' makes my fingers want to detach from my hand and run away in horror. What's worse, I had to type it twice. Ew.

#black sails #again - i know i'm stating the obvious here #but apparently it has to be said anyway

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orionsangel86 · 7 years

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12x20 - Holy Narrative Mirrors Batman!

In the middle of taking ages to write another hand meta (yes I’m back to that guys) this episode aired and therefore I am here to bring you my review of 12x20 and all the emotions that brought to the table.

Firstly, important things to address: I am PISSED that two POC women were killed this episode. I don’t really care that Alesha was brought back as a Twig puppet monster (my nickname for those creatures) because it was still two violent POC deaths shown on screen. Must we really keep seeing this on this show? After Billy? I know that SPN needs to keep its death count high and I would NOT want them to kill off Max when he is our only canon recurring queer character on the show atm either (not including Dean still hidden away in Narnia) but I’m still pissed off about it. I also didn’t like the fact that they showed the old witch’s immediate dislike of Tasha being a racist thing either. Yes I know she’s an evil witch but really spn? Racism and then have that same racist old hag KILL the poc lady? Nice going.

Anyway, that is my rant on that. So ya’ll know it pissed me off. This is a just fandom blog and I wanna keep it positive bearing in mind I actually loved this episode but it needed to be addressed.

I did love this episode, even if I am getting a meta headache over all the narrative mirrors they showed us and went to extensive lengths to portray. I feel I need to outline them all clearly so without further rambling here they are:

Max is Dean and Alesha is Sam

This one is pretty obvious. They went to great lengths to show this including adding a blast from the far past in the ‘THEN’ section by showing us the Pilot episodes baby dean (how high and young his voice was!) saying the classic phrase “Dad’s on a hunting trip and hasn’t been home in a few days”. To say that the Banes’ story then mirrors the first two seasons of the show would be highly accurate.

Max is shown to be the loud, flirtatious, overly confident sibling with his boisterous attitude and charisma. Unlike Dean however he is ‘out and proud’… Oh Dean… please find your way out of Narnia this season.

Alesha is the sibling who rolls her eyes over her brothers antics, and feels more like an outsider in the family, based on this conversation with Sam:

“He always thinks he knows mum better, because they’re both natural witches, it’s who they are”

“When I was growing up Dean and my dad had the same thing with hunting, that bond”.

This pretty much drums the mirror home, but later we are shown just how similar Dean and Max are by how Max takes the deal and brings his sister back (though perhaps not quite in the same way) and sells his soul for her, because like Dean, he is unable to go on without his sibling.

This is the main narrative mirror in place, with the siblings shown to be kinda co-dependent and willing to sacrifice for each other. It also really helps our bi!dean reading that he is yet again being mirrored with a queer man. Yay for Steve Yokey really pushing that parallel.

more under the cut...

Max is Sam and Alesha is Dean

However there is a less obvious mirror between the siblings the other way around, it isn’t as strong as above but it is still there in the way that Alesha was the one to first be worrying about their mother, she was the one who wanted to drag the Winchesters in it, and she was the one trying to find out what was going on whereas Max was more concerned about his date (aka Sam being more concerned about getting back to his exams and Jess). All this subtle narrative mirror shows is that it goes both way between the brothers, the mirrors are not so clear cut because like this season in general, things can always go either way, including down an unexpected path.

Sam has also sacrificed himself for Dean, and for the world. He is also willing to do terrible things to save his brother’s life. He is also like Max and totally capable of making terrible decisions (as season 10 showed us all too well).

Tasha as John Winchester

This one is obvious when you consider the original plot of SPN “Dad’s on a hunting trip…” “their mom is on a hunting trip and hasn’t been home in a week”. Tasha here though, is the John that the Winchesters never had. The Banes are how the Winchesters could have been had John not spiralled down in grief and drink and abuse. As Dean says “Watching them, this loving family, the kind we should have had” (it also brings up a point that if John had been there and been caring and considerate of his sons perhaps Dean would have ended up more like Max – as in completely unashamed of his sexuality and out and proud about it including in front of his parent : “We’re gonna have some… guy time” indeed.)

Tasha as Mary Winchester

Kinda obvious in that she is their mom, but also that she went off hunting alone and got herself turned into a twig monster. Now the twig monster symbolism works well for both Mary and Cas and I’ll get to him in a bit but first I need to talk about how this could be bad foreshadowing for Mary. We already know she ends this episode in a very sticky situation, just like Tasha was. Tasha was offered a deal and refused to take it, now that Mary is trapped and potentially gonna be tortured by the BMOL, what kind of deal are they likely to offer her? What will happen to her if she doesn’t take it? Will she also possibly loose her heart?

Tasha as Castiel

This one is probably less obvious, but I wanted to mention it because of the imagery at the start of the episode.

Brown Jacket, Blue shirt. Could be a coincidence but then with everything else I don’t think it is…. Also…

Look what rug turned up again…

Plus the difference in glowing eyes this episode just seems to me to be a big call back to last episode where there was so much emphasis on the eyes. Tasha’s natural magic makes her eyes glow purple (very similar to Cas’s blue)

Whereas the twig monsters eyes glow white when under control of the witch:

There isn’t much of a difference from blue to purple and yellow to white…

And her glowing pendant just reminds me of Cas’s grace in the vial that Metatron kept hidden

So why is Tasha a Cas mirror? Because she is trying to go it alone without her family to stop of the witch? Gets caught up in a power she can’t defeat and gets used by that power. That the witch saw something in her enough to try to deal with her, but Tasha fought, she said no, and it cost her her life. Both Mary and Cas took the metaphorical deal. Both lost their way, lost their souls AND their hearts when you consider what Cas is potentially losing in the Winchesters if he continues down this current path, and what Mary has lost by choosing the BMOL over her sons.

The Twig Puppet Monsters as mirrors for Cas

I mentioned this briefly in this post, but I need to go into further detail. We have all been speculating since 12x19 as to what is wrong with Cas, and I think this episode answered it quite clearly in the mirror given to us here. The witch steals the heart of her victims, puts it into her puppets of twine and twig and recreates them perfectly, but under her control when she needs them. She takes out their emotional core. I think that this is a good explanation for what the Nephilim child did to Cas. It manipulated him using his heart – his desire to find a path, faith, a mission… it all comes down to his desire for love and to accept love into his life (all thing we have meta’d about before). The Nephilim used this against him, it used his heart to gain control.

I wasn’t 100 per cent sure on this mirror, or what Yokey was trying to tell us until that last scene, when Max brought back Alesha in twig puppet monster form. Puppet Alesha seemed to show care and concern for her brother, she seemingly knew nothing about what had happened to her. Same with puppet Tasha, she showed care to her kids and had that heartfelt talk with Dean. Why would a monster put in such effort to give advice and care? Even if trying to keep under the radar. I genuinely felt like the Tasha puppet didn’t realise what she was until Max forced her via magic to reveal herself.

As I mentioned in the linked post, what really brought this point home for me was the “are you hurt?” worry that Puppet Alesha showed? It was a direct parallel of Cas’s “your hurt” to Dean at the end of last episode. The moment at the end of 12x19 that really brought confusion to the whole ‘is Cas brainwashed again?’ theory. Cas was so delicate in the way he reached out and touched Dean to heal him. A moment caught so intimately on camera like so many shots from last episode. It showed the audience that however Cas was being controlled it wasn’t in the same way as Naomi, or Rowena with the attack dog spell, or Cas after the angels resetting him in season 4. Bobo was right when he said that this was different, that it wasn’t brainwashing as such.

Like the twig puppet monsters, Cas doesn’t realise he is under control, or that his decisions are not his own, because his heart is what is being used against him, showing him things “the Future” that make him think he is on a righteous path.

All this makes me think is that if it is Cas’s heart that used against him by the Nephilim then I am suddenly very excited as to how we will break him free of this spell.

This of course brings us to…

Destiel

How can I NOT talk about destiel in this episode! Oh Dean. We talk a lot about who carries the torch for destiel in each season, and how usually, unless Dean is carrying that torch destiel feels like it gets shoved into the background (throughout seasons 9 and 10 we didn’t get destiel from Dean very much at all). Now the torch is firmly in Dean’s hands and I feel for him so strongly.

After such a glorious Destiel heavy episode in 12x19, we would usually expect a few no homo moments in the following episode, or at least the odd trend in earlier seasons of Dean seemingly completely forgetting Cas once he disappeared again, however what we got instead was wonderful.

Our first shot of Dean after the cold open was of his hands, clutched in worry and very telling of his emotional state (I will continue to go on about shots of hands this season and how they express emotion)

Dean is talking about his concern over Cas to what appears to be a long suffering Sam (forever long suffering Sam).

“It sock puppetted him” he says in an interesting choice of words that only further drums home the Cas as a Twig Puppet Monster mirror.

What I love most about this scene is not Dean’s worry, but Sam’s calm and logical thinking. It is YET ANOTHER moment where the relationship between Dean and Cas and Sam and Cas is shown to be so very different. We have been seeing this difference continuously in the show since 11x14 and I can’t believe that we haven’t had a moment yet of Dean turning to Sam and saying “Why the hell aren’t you freaking out like I am?” only for Sam to give him classic bitchface no.25 before walking away and muttering under his breath what a lovestruck idiot Dean is.

He clearly brings up the colt to change the subject. Since it’s not mentioned again all episode.

When Alesha calls Sam jumps at the chance to go on a hunt, but Dean protests, and this is AGAIN something we don’t tend to see, and if we do, it’s because something is wrong with Cas, Dean doesn’t wanna do a regular hunt and instead focus on Cas, but Sam logic talks him into going (usually because Sam is fed up of Dean moping about his husband being missing and wants a distraction). “What about Cas?” Dean asks and I punch the air because I have been asking that SAME question now for YEARS and THANK YOU SHOW for making it something that is really being drummed home again…

*sips Cas hater tears*

We get this brilliant long logic talk from Sam about how they have already done everything they can to look for Cas and there is really nothing else to do at this stage and how the Banes’s need their help all while Dean is just giving him this bitchface until Sam just gives up, realises none of that is working, so he plays the family card “Their mom’s on a hunting trip, and hasn’t been home in a week.” And that’s what makes Dean give in. He always was one for tradition…

The fact that they gave us all this glorious Dean worry and protesting the hunt and everything I honestly thought would be enough but nope! They give us MORE.

Dean’s call to Mary just broke my heart. Jensen’s acting is SO emotional god I love him. It’s EVERYTHING about the way they wanted to put across Dean’s feelings in this moment. Lets just take a minute to really analyse this scene:

Dean paces in his worry.

Dean calls his MOM because he wants to talk to her.

It goes to voicemail and Dean’s face is visibly upset

“Some stuff going down, kinda got me spun out” In case we weren’t aware that this was about CAS already.

THE MUSIC SWELLS AND IS ROMANTIC AND SAD.

Jensen’s face is beautiful. I mean that we already know but just LOOK at him in this moment. He is so upset, so worried about Cas, so broken over what he must view as rejection. Urgh I can’t with these two.

Everything about this moment SCREAMS a heartbroken lover missing their partner/spouse and wanting to speak to their parent for consolation (where he wasn’t getting it from long suffering Sam). It is glorious.

*queue flashback to Dean telling Jody how Sam and him could have used some of that growing up after Jody mentions being there for the girls to talk about boyfriends etc*

Basically the amount of pining Dean we are getting this season is amazing and I love it.

Mary and Ketch

Moving on to the B Plot story of the episode, I liked the creep factor with Ketch and Mary, the way they bookended this part of the episode with Shifter!Mary and then Real Mary strapped to the chair, the fight when she punched him in the nuts with the knuckledusters (really Ketch you thought they WOULDN’T work on you just because they are meant for Angels?! Knuckledusters are STILL Knuckledusters dude) – Isn’t that a nice little point though about the BMOL’s narrow mindedness, they are completely unable to see beyond the black and white. Angel knuckledusters must ONLY be used for Angels, each item of equipment can only be used for its one single purpose and nothing else. This obvious differentiates Mary and the Winchesters because they are able to get creative with their weapons – just think back to 12x09 and Sam and Dean using that cabin in the woods to trick the army guys – they are able to adapt to their environment and it makes them far superior to the BMOL – I reckon this will come up again in the next two episodes as to how the Winchesters manage to beat the BMOL (because obviously they will beat them).

I don’t like how the other hunters the BMOL were focussed on were Claire, Garth and Eileen. It makes me nervous since next episode is bucklemming… someone is gonna die. The ‘old men’ in Britain were brought up again and I really do wonder if we will get to see them at all (I can’t help but imagine them as almost inhuman themselves – like the old doctor who harvested human part to gain unnatural longlife… either that or like something out of Mad Max Fury Road – the BMOL has GOT to have some super dark secret and I am really curious to find out what these ‘old men’ really are… though maybe just a bunch of old totally human Tory former public school boys in a secret society sipping Brandy and smoking cigars is actually far more horrifying than actual monsters because humans can be just as evil and nothing in Britain is as evil as old man Tory’s.)

At least Mary seems to finally realise that she needs to be there for Sam and Dean and be more of a mom to them. Perhaps we will see more of this in season 13 though the very fact that she has come to this realisation and left a hopeful voicemail to Dean says to me that something very bad is going to happen to her leaving it all too late. We shall just have to wait and see.

The Past and the Future

I know I have briefly mentioned this above, but I LOVE how this whole episode was basically a rewrite of the first two seasons. That obvious call back to the famous line, emphasised by the reminder in the “THEN” section. The Banes mom going missing, the kids looking for her only for her to die shortly before one sibling dies leaving the other to sell his soul to bring them back. The fact that in this very obvious rewrite Dean’s mirror is a queer man. The fact that this is a fantastic commentary on the Winchester co-dependency but with the Winchesters looking in from the outside and voicing their disapproval (though loved Dean’s honesty about that hypocrisy) making the audience AWARE of how bad it was, of how this is NOT something to be romanticised!

(Sometimes I feel like Dabb is waging war on the bibros and it makes me so happy I could kiss him)

The fact that we keep getting this nod to a ‘better way’ in the subtext, and okay, so Max didn’t take the better way (he actually got a worse deal than Dean did when he sold his soul for Sam) but the fact that this was portrayed as a TERRIBLE thing in this episode is proof that Dabb is moving away from this. However the season ends, I can’t see it ending with the toxic co-dependency still being in place, and it seems like we have finally broken this cycle of Winchester sacrifice for each other that seems to reach its climatic peak in the season 10 finale. Dabb is going out of his way to show how far the boys have come. The call backs to the earlier seasons only emphasise the difference, particularly in Dean, in this season. Dean is on a path of honesty and trust and communication, perhaps some of the other characters are still playing catch up to him, but as our POV character, this speaks volumes for the road the show is going down. I for one couldn’t be happier.

Finally

STOP GRENADE BAITING US!!

Seriously though, this chekovs grenade launcher is gonna go off by season end, and it will be Dean who fires it. Lets all cross our fingers that the resolution to this continuous grenade baiting will also come at the same time as a resolution to another kind of baiting that has been subtextually tied to the grenade launcher for a while now. We can but hope after all.

#supernatural #destiel #dean winchester #sam winchester #episode review #spn meta #12x20 #season 12 #spn spoilers #mary winchester #arthur ketch #twigs & twine & tasha banes #max banes #alesha banes #tasha banes #mirrors and parallels #my thoughts #my meta #spn speculation

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