I was just thinking yesterday about how the two major "twists" in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show so far are actually... super obvious (and I don't mean that in a bad way). But SW fans have taken so much for granted, and we always (ever since the original trilogy) have had more knowledge than the characters. We knew that Anakin would fall and the Empire would rise and all of that. So we assumed that we knew how everything was going to play out. And those assumptions meant that we didn't see the obvious twists heading our way... which is why they worked.
(spoilers through the fifth episode of Obi-Wan Kenobi)
Twist 1: Obi-Wan doesn't know Anakin survived Mustafar and that Vader is still out there.
This really should be obvious. But SW fans (myself included) are dense. We have always made assumptions based on what we knew, forgetting how little we actually knew. I think this was part of why so many people disliked the prequels. They has made assumptions about how those events would play out, and then they didn't play out according to the fans' preconceived assumptions.
But in this case... we all knew that Anakin survived Mustafar, so we assumed that Obi-Wan knew that as well. But of course he didn't know that! How could he have known that? There was no reason to think that Anakin could have survived those injuries! As far as Obi-Wan knew, Anakin and Padme were both dead; Luke and Leia were orphans, and Yoda and Obi-Wan wanted to hide them from Palpatine. And remembering that puts everything in a different perspective. It's not as foolish to leave Luke with his biological family because Palpatine wouldn't likely look there for a child he didn't know existed. And as far as we know, Palpatine knows little to nothing about Owen Lars. So... no problem, here! It's a reasonable plan to leave an orphan with his family in the Outer Rim. And by the time Obi-Wan knows that Anakin/Vader is alive, Luke has been with his family for ten years. It would be irresponsible to take him away from his family now.
I was a little thrown off because in Legends, Obi-Wan found out that Vader survived something like a few months after Order 66. He saw Imperial propaganda in a bar and realized that the dark figure who is called Vader is obviously Anakin (or something along those lines... it's been years since I read that book obviously). So I assumed that Obi-Wan knew by now... but there was no support for that assumption, and this makes more sense. So as shocking as this twist was, it makes complete sense and it's perfect.
Twist 2: Reva isn't loyal to Vader... she's plotting to kill him because she knows he is Anakin, the man who killed her Jedi family and betrayed them all.
So the set-up with the younglings in the temple, at the beginning of the first episode, made it easy to deduce that Reva was a Jedi youngling who somehow survived Order 66. And once you've made that connection, it should be simple to deduce that Reva knows Anakin is Vader because she saw Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker when she was a child. And it should be obvious that when she saw Anakin in the temple that day, she would think Anakin was in the temple to save her. We literally have another child who says exactly this in Episode III. The very first images we saw of Order 66 back in the film included a Jedi child who was hiding from clones and then came out of hiding when he saw Anakin. We have this little child asking Anakin for help, looking to him as a teacher and a leader. "Master Skywalker, what do we do?" This tiny child wants Anakin to tell them how to save themselves, and instead, Vader murders him. Of course any child who saw Anakin as a savior and then saw him murder every person she'd known would end up feeling betrayed. Anakin did betray Reva and every other Jedi, children and adults, who lived in the temple. He should have protected those children and he didn't.
And we know that Reva feels like she is "owed" something and that she thinks protecting one's family is the most important thing--she tells Owen as much in the first episode, the same episode where we saw her as a child with her Jedi teacher and her Jedi siblings. Of course she knows Anakin is Vader. And of course she blames him for the murder of everyone she's ever known! How was this not obvious?! But the setup leads us to follow all of our own assumptions that inquisitors are just wanna-be Sith apprentices and they must all be competing for Vader's attention. Because they are bad and that's what Dark Siders are like. We were deceived by our own assumptions until suddenly the twist literally "twists" those assumptions into a slightly different shape that makes perfect sense.
This is exactly how plot twists should work. They should be unexpected, but make complete sense after they are revealed.
And for the record, a bunch of the so-called "plot holes" or "continuity errors" the perpetually angry SW fans are complaining about are also just "twists" that defy fandom assumptions that have been made...without evidence. We assumed that Obi-Wan and Vader never met between the duel on Mustafar and the duel in A New Hope. We assumed Leia knew nothing about Obi-Wan and had never met him. We assumed Obi-Wan never left Tatooine and that he'd spent two whole decades faithfully communing with the Force and learning from Qui-Gon. But dude... NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE EVER STATED! People inferred, people read between the lines, people interpreted this line or that line to imply this. But all of those assumptions... just assumptions.
And some of them don't actually make a lot of sense, except that we've accepted them for so long that we forgot they don't make tons of narrative sense. Obi-Wan wasn't totally convinced that Anakin was beyond redemption in Episode III. But he's 200% convinced that Anakin can't be saved, that Vader can't be saved, and that Vader and Anakin aren't even the same person anymore, by the time we get to Episodes IV and V. That's a big shift in perspective with no explanation for how Obi-Wan arrived at that conclusion. We all assumed that Leia trusted Obi-Wan implicitly because Bail Organa told her to, which... fair. But that assumption doesn't preclude her having other reasons to trust Obi-Wan (and reasons that explain why she doesn't even pause for a second when Luke uses the name "Ben Kenobi" instead of "Obi-Wan Kenobi"). We all assumed that Qui-Gon could talk to Obi-Wan immediately in order to teach him the "mysteries of Force ghost-ness." But honestly, that never made sense and felt tacked on at the end of Episode III. How did Qui-Gon learn these secrets? His body didn't disappear the way Yoda's and Obi-Wan's did when they "passed on." They disappeared and then could appear as ghosts. But Qui-Gon? Nope! And Yoda never explained how Obi-Wan was supposed to "train with Qui-Gon," at least not that we saw. We just assumed it would happen easily. But showing that it is not easy, that Obi-Wan isn't sure how to connect to Qui-Gon, and that he has lost faith in the Force makes so much more sense! And honestly, whatever this ghost-training involves, it should be difficult! Otherwise every single Jedi would have the ability to be a Force ghost, whereas that was clearly not the norm in the Jedi Order. It clearly wasn't normal to hear the voice of your dead master. Obi-Wan didn't think it was possible. Yoda didn't know it was possible. We are all used to it because we've seen Luke interact with the ghosts of his dead teachers since 1977! So we assumed, yeah, that's a thing that Jedi do. But it isn't normally. And it must be difficult. And of course Obi-Wan hasn't mastered that when he's only halfway through his exile.
So all I'm saying here is... the twists are totally logical and well executed. Most of these "continuity errors" aren't really errors, and SW fans are just clowning themselves because we've all accepted our own headcanons as canon for twenty to forty years, and it's a long-standing tradition for SW fans to freak the fuck out when they find out their assumptions/headcanons were never true and they were just making shit up all the time (which is not to say that George Lucas and now Disney are not also making shit up as they go along... but really, fandom headcanons are not more valid... except when it comes to the sequel trilogy... in that case, everyone's headcanons, including JJ Abrams, are all equally valid. Because let's be honest... what even was that fever dream except the crazy headcanon of two fans who didn't talk to each other enough to get their stories straight?).
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For the Danyal Al Ghul AU: How would Danyal react to other canon events like when Sam wishes she never met Danny, Tucker wishes for powers, the christmas episode, or other DP canon events?
(Also, I assume Danyal's cover is blown by the reality Gaunlet event.)
Ohooho I love this question. So im only gonna respond to the episodes you mentioned, since it's been a while since i actually watched the show and I don't remember all the episodes. And also since I don't remember them fully, I'm gonna get details wrong. I am fine with that, it still gets the gist down lol. I've got the tvtropes recap page pulled up, so i'll be using that to try and hit the major points it mentions.
So, Memory Blank! Man I've thought about that one, and its the one I'm frankly most excited to answer because it gets to show just how much of a positive impact being friends with Sam and Tucker had on Danyal. So where to start? Their fight goes differently than in canon, but I'm going to start from after Sam makes her wish.
Firstly; she and Tucker are friends, but the two of them are not friends with Danny. He's on his own. In this au, the three of them became friends when they were 11 and Danny's been in Amity Park for about a year.
They met in the beginning with Sam trying to befriend him at first because she realized that they shared similar ideals on environmentalism, but he rebuffed her pretty harshly due to a combination of grief over leaving his home, trying to process the fact that he can never return and will never see his brother again or meet his father, and just plain League arrogance lmao. He really hated being in Amity Park just in general because it wasn't his home and it was the city too.
So he was really rather unapproachable in the beginning. People kept a pretty wide berth of him due to Fenton association and his own vibes.
But Danny's still a kid, and they want socialization with their peers. At 11 he didn't have any friends, and was frankly quite lonely. He decided to approach Sam and Tucker after deeming them "acceptable allies", although Sam wasn't really interested at first up until he did the equivalent of apologizing. Tucker warmed up first afterwards, but Sam really wasn't too far behind.
So thats how they became friends, post-wish though? Lets say that Sam didn't accept the apology and rebuffed Danny, and kinda intimidated Tucker into doing the thing. Danyal closed down, backed off, and then never approached them again because he decided right then and there he wasn't going to chase it. Wasn't worth his effort or time.
Then he just. never approached another person after that because he didn't want to get rebuffed again (he wouldn't admit that it hurt a bit), and he could already tell his efforts wouldn't work. He turned his attention to other stuff. In this timeline it wasn't too difficult to find him at events dedicated to combatting climate change, deforestation, light pollution, animal cruelty, etc. the LOA is an environmentalist group, after all. They just also happen to be eco-fascist assassins-for-hire.
In summary, Sam and Tucker helped Danyal realize the flaws in some of the League's beliefs (the fascism) to the point where he could deconstruct it on his own. Being friends with them made him realize that, frankly, genocide was not the answer to environmental equilibrium, and that the people outside of the League had lives worth living. They also helped quell his arrogance, and just in general influenced him to become kinder even if it doesn't look like that all the time to other people. Sam and Tucker make him laugh, and smile, and just happy.
OG Danyal: wears pretty casual teen clothes. More punky-aesthetic. Has multiple ear piercings. These were self-done. Will have a lip piercing by the time he reunites with Damian, mark my words. Can and will wear muscle tees. Makes puns, jokes, is generally sassy with his friends. Can, will, and has climbed shit he shouldn't be because he enjoys the challenge of scaling a building. It's also very funny seeing Tucker and Sam reenact the "Gregory! HOW DID YOU GET UP THERE?!" meme. Still has a questionable moral compass, but like, he's not an eco-fascist.
This Timeline Danyal: dresses much more sophisticated; dark academia vibe. Closed off, cold. Is 2x more likely to kill someone than OG Danyal, who was frankly, pr kosher with murder already but only if he deemed it extremely necessary. Still an eco-fascist.
Danyal without Sam and Tucker? Still believes in the teachings of the League because he has not been really challenged on them. In fact, he has doubled down on it, actually. Living in the city, growing up estranged and ostracized by his peers, has only strengthened his resolve that all of humanity minus the league (and the Fentons) deserves to be wiped out. He is disgusted by the people around him and desperately wants to go home, even more than the last timeline. The only reason he hasn't is for Damian's sake, but he's been checking in with mother whenever she visits and asking to find a way to come home. She's been steadily wearing down on it; her child is miserable here.
This version of Danyal should not have powers, and is, essentially on the fast track of rejoining the league -- doubly so when he hears Damian is living with father. Clearly it's safe enough for him to be with father, if mother allowed it, and father has become safe enough for Damian to live there. Good. With the threat of two heirs being in the League gone, Danny can return with Mother's permission. And. he probably takes Jazz (and the Fenton parents) with him. Forcibly if he has to.
So Sam has her work cut out for her here, a lot more than in canon, because even when she does tell him that they used to be friends in another timeline, and he believes it, he is not going to give a shit. Clearly they were not as good of friends as she thought they were, if she had wished they never met in the first place. Good riddance, then. This Danny is cold, incredibly hurt, and very closed off.
He is a cave wall in comparison to the Danny Sam knew, and talking to him feels like walking into one. Because he is looking at her with just utter disgust and disdain, keeping a distance like he is revolted by her presence and allergic to her and everyone else's touch.
Which really, really fucking hurts when she knows that in their last timeline, he would actively seek out her and Tucker's company and affection. Sam could read her best friend like an open book, and now its like she's trying to read one in another language she barely speaks. This boy used to smile at her, he used to laugh at Tucker's jokes, and he was so passionate about the things he enjoyed. Now he looks at her like he wants nothing more than for her to drop dead on the spot.
It hurts even more knowing that her last words to her Danny were the words, 'some days i wish we never met'; the way he looked at her afterwards haunts her. For a split second, he looked completely crushed and heartbroken, before his entire body language and expression shut off and he totally closed down on her.
Because by this point in his friendship with her and Tucker, he's told them, he has told them, in a very intimate moment of vulnerability, that they are one of the best things that's happened in his life -- right there alongside the day he first met his baby brother. They are very important to him, and he has finally felt comfortable enough with telling them. There's not a day that goes by that he isn't grateful for their friendship.
So to hear Sam say that some days she wishes they never met? well. That breaks his heart. Just- just a little bit. Sam regrets it the moment it leaves her mouth, and she immediately tries to apologize, but Danny immediately spits back; "Well. I hope you get your wish." and then stalks off.
I'm warring with myself here trying to decide whether or not this new timeline Danyal is at a "point of no return", where nothing Sam says is going to make him attempt to reignite that friendship. Clearly that will end badly anyways, if this is the result of that friendship. He's cut all ties from these people; he feels no prerogative to fix things she broke.
Like, the version of Danyal I'm thinking of here has no close bonds with anyone in the city sans Jazz -- and she? has her own life outside of Danny. She is not his keeper, not his caretaker, and certainly not his therapist. (which i have beef about too, considering how she gets boiled down to 'therapist with no life of her own' but im not going into that.) She has some influence on him, but frankly not enough to really make him challenge his beliefs. Danny cares about her that, if he returns to the league, she is coming with him. Or at the very least, will be spared from the League's goals.
Mmmm. I can't make it a total point of no return though. Sam's very stubborn, and she knows Danny. And while this Danny is still very different, he is still Danny. She'll try and befriend him insistently in a way that might annoy him, but at least not push him away further.
(Tucker, meanwhile, is just soo confused about Sam's very random, very abrupt switch up. Cuz girl he thought you hated this guy? Why are you suddenly trying to get all buddy-buddy with the terrifying Fenton kid. Have you been possessed? Is this some kind of crisis?)
(Sam drags Tucker into befriending Danny because he is the only person she knows that can get him to belly laugh. Tucker is mildly terrified but going along with it.)
Anyways this does end with Sam befriending Danny, or at least getting him to like her long enough that he'll pick up a ghost weapon and face off against Desiree. There's no way in hell he's walking into that portal, that last timeline might have been a 1/billionth chance of it happening and he's not dying for the chance to get powers. And frankly with his training -- which he's probably kept up with even more than the old timeline because he had no one to spend his time with -- he doesn't really need them to be good at fighting them. Just show him how to ghost proof a weapon and he'll handle the rest from there.
But Sam does end up undoing the wish and getting back to her own original timeline in the end. It's the morning after her fight, and the literal first thing she does that morning is get her shoes on and fucking sprriiint to the fenton house. Bursts into tears when she sees Danny and apologizes over and over again. She swears she didn't mean any of it, and to please believe her, and Desiree's still loose and they need to stop her, and she's had the worst time.
She does tell him about the other timeline she just went through, and she hopes that, if it still exists, that that Danyal manages to find friends in the Sam and Tucker there after this. And if not them, then anyone.
Danny's still pretty hurt by what she said, it cut really deep, but he forgives her.
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Tucker getting his powers! Frankly things gooo... relatively the same as canon, I think? Actually, no. Danny probably figures out the whole Genie "i wish you would go back into your lamp" thing faster than canon danny since he's not a C student lmao. TV.Tropes doesn't give me too much specifics for a recap on the plot, so we're gonna wing it. For the plot I'm going to say that Tucker gets his powers before Danny figures out the "i wish" thing, which happens relatively quickly.
Danny tries to be... rather supportive of his friend getting powers? Especially since, in comparison to Danny, it was rather painless. However, he's also very suspicious. He doesn't trust the source of Tucker's powers, and warns him to be careful and to let Danny know if he feels off in anyway.
Tucker does end up helping Danny a few times, but the quick progression of his powers and Tucker's willingness to use them more often than not worries him. He reminds him a handful of times that Tucker shouldn't rely on his powers to help -- not even Danny does that. He prefers to use his weapons and martial arts to fight instead. Tucker doesn't listen.
And they end up fighting anyways. Things get resolved, everything turns out okay!
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Christmas episode straight up just. doesn't happen. Danyal doesn't care enough about the Fenton arguing or about Christmas to be upset about said arguing. He thinks its really childish, but he's not a grinch about all of it.
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Okay it wasn't explicitly mentioned but i have thought about TUE. And I'm trying to think how that would go because it's the result of Danny getting his hands on the math answers and cheating. Which Danyal would not do.
And someone mentioned in the comments on my ao3 under the oneshots there that TUE might just straight up not happen. Which makes sense, Danyal is so different from canon that things don't have to always happen like it did in canon. So that's something I need to chew about, cuz if it does happen, then I'm going to figure out a different way for it to.
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