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kitkatopinions · 1 year

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I have this theory that rwby white knights and anti-rwdes are really into pushing the idea that Ironwood pre-shooting Oscar is some horrible clearly bad dictator with no good traits because they actually don't have any arguments against people saying his over-the-course-of-two-in-universe-days fall to villainy was rushed, unnecessary, and severely lacking in emotional depth. So the only way for them to try and make it not bad writing is to say that James was always a villain and therefore his villainy arc wasn't 'rushed' (though this ignores the fact that a villain with standards rapidly changing into a villain with zero standards with no real depth is still bad writing.)

But funnily enough, the whole thing with pushing the idea of 'Ironwood was always a bad guy, clearly a dictator, clearly everyone needs to have seen that or they're a pro-dictator bigot themselves' take... Really just makes both the team of RWBYJNROQ and the narrative that the RWBY writers painted seem worse if you ask me. Like, Team RWBY and co were actively and willingly working with IW for like two months, right? Like, they were down in the thick of it in Mantle sometimes, they saw the security camera that some people swear means that James kept the citizens of Mantle under constant surveillance, they saw the broadcasting of James and Winter that some people swear means that James was obviously feeding Mantle propaganda, they saw how he worked on a project that they actively believed in apparently instead of using the easily transferable resources of a communications tower to fix a broken wall. They saw James put things in place like curfews, which some people are swearing is proof of the ironclad hold Ironwood had on those poor defenseless citizens. They saw that he pulled his forces out of Mistral (on the advice of Winter,) which apparently is heartlessly hording protection, and they also saw him bring some of his forces into Vale which according to some people was a show of power. And despite the fact that there was every indication that IW was fully authorized to be in Vale and fully authorized in bringing over weapons, and despite the fact that he only brought them because he thought there would be an attack (which there was,) and despite the fact that he clearly didn't bring his whole fleet - No, he was invading Vale. And Team RWBY and co also saw his 'over-reliance on machinery' and his 'hatred of humanity' at play, and they saw him let teenagers do any fighting and saw that he was running a child recruitment school (ignore if this breaks the premise of the entire show by implying that Ruby shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a fight,) and they saw that he was supposedly grooming Winter. And they saw that he *gasp* was put in charge of security for an event after an attack that could've been really bad while Ironwood and the rest of Oz's inner circle was anticipating worse I MEAN he was completely unnecessarily put in charge of obviously completely unneeded security for your average everyday not in danger at all sporting event that can easily be compared to sporting events in our world where Salem and Grimm don't exist, and so that was clearly an act of aggression and exercising control.

So, if Ironwood is really a terrible dictator who has clearly been doing off the charts bad things that prove that he's a bad dictator since his very first appearances in volume two, then the options are A. Ruby and co are all so hopelessly naive that they completely ignored the clear and obvious signs of a dictator and then made shocked pikachu faces when he 'tried to leave all the poor people behind to die because of nothing but laziness, cowardice, and classism,' which makes them look really bad. B. Ruby and co are all so dumb that they just didn't realize that all the obviously bad stuff he did was obviously bad and should be a deal breaker because they're just that oblivious. Or C. Team RWBY and their friends can be slotted into the same category that the anti-rwdes put IW fans who say that the fall to villainy was rushed and that he wasn't always clearly bad, and written off as pro-dictator probably classist bigots. Ruby literally shared information on the war with him after a bunch of stuff in season seven because she and Oscar decided to trust him.

(Just to be clear, I don't believe any of that. I believe that Ironwood wasn't clearly super bad until he shot Oscar, and Team RWBY weren't in the wrong to work for and help Ironwood and believe in some of the things he was doing.)

But, using that 'James was always a dictator who was always clearly bad' logic, what does that say about the narrative RWBY the show was presenting us with. Because... Team RWBY and co weren't treated as in the wrong for working for and helping Ironwood and believing in some of the things he was doing. They doubted him a little, here and there, but for the most part just worked with him, and then nobody was like 'we were so stupid to trust him after everything he did' and nobody was like 'We need to be more careful because we were working with a dictator FUCK." In fact, Yang and Ren saying anything against Ruby was still treated as completely bad and something they needed to take back, even though she was the one who told the supposed clearly evil dictator important war secrets. Sooooo, if Ironwood really was a dictator, what was the 'Ruby did no wrong' stuff supposed to tell us as viewers? XD Like I honestly truly prefer thinking 'these writers just screwed up their fall to villainy arc pretty badly' rather than thinking 'these writers deliberately made the heroes willingly and happily work for an evil dictator for months and trust him with important war secrets.'

Once again I'm wondering how RWBY simps manage to make RWBY seem eight times worse than it is while they're trying to defend it.

#rwde #anti rwby #anti rooster teeth #rwby critical #rwby criticism #rwby crit #rwby bashing #rwby hate #pro ironwood #pro iw #ironwood defense

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rwby-is-the-best · 6 months

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shout out to general james "jimmy" ironwood for connecting his scroll to one of the most high-security confidential important smartdesks in the kingdom just to project a hologram of his big ships looking important, then being so embarrassed when everyone says "actually bringing your ships here was a bad move" that he doesn't see this

your scroll is so visibly hacked my guy. too bad the virus was made by the same guy who created the atlas Avast Free Antivirus program

#in his defense i also did not see it until maybe just now #but still lol #rwby #rwby v3 #rwby v3 rewatch #james ironwood #greenlight volume 10 #greenlight rwby volume 10

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eumenidaes · 1 year

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Bad news. When I type husband my phone autocompletes to James

#my posts #ironwood #in my defense. it is not always bcs i’m saying he’s my husband #it’s mainly bcs he’s chae-yeong’s husband

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bestworstcase · 28 days

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thoughts cooking.

mountain glenn, grimm overwhelmed the city and the people took shelter in caves, building an entire underground city after the destruction above. an explosion later opens a breach into a grimm nest, grimm flood the city again, and vale seals off the tunnels, implicitly without attempting rescue or evacuation, sacrificing the people to protect the core city.

<- same choice ironwood made.

“i see lives that could have been saved,” and all. vale created the world’s largest tomb.

fast forward a few decades. a single transport ship approaches vacuo with the news that salem came to vale and “there’s nothing left.” the huntsmen aboard “led the civilian retreat, brought as many people as we could…”

that turn of phrase—‘led the civilian retreat’—doesn’t evoke a panicked, disorganized scramble to get away from vale. it calls to mind the orderly evacuation procedures we saw during the battle for beacon, where people were loaded efficiently into transports to move them from beacon into a safe zone established in vale. port and oobleck were in charge of that retreat too. (and it demonstrated generally that emergency evacuation is something vale has on a lock—the assault on beacon blindsided everyone but the kingdom’s crisis response plan sprang into action like a well-oiled machine.)

only one ship, though.

when cinder attacked beacon, they retreated to a safe zone in vale. when salem hit vale, the immediately obvious place to establish a safe zone is patch—it’s close by but separated by a body of water, and it’s relatively defensible (an island). unlike vale, patch probably doesn’t have the room or resources to support a large urban population indefinitely, but you can use it as a relatively secure staging area for a subsequent evacuation to somewhere else. what you probably can’t do is squeeze anything like the majority of vale’s population onto patch island. (i mean, you could if it’s as huge as it appears to be on the map, but the map is NOT to scale and i get the impression that patch is supposed to be quite small.)

mountain glenn. “i see lives that could have been saved.” vale’s greatest failure, standing abandoned as a dark reminder. and “if you can’t learn from [history], you’re destined to repeat it.” did vale learn from its failure in abandoning mountain glenn to die?

in this fractal spiral of a story. ironwood didn’t get his way, but what if he had? “we are saving who we can” -> “brought as many people with us as we could,” with the history teacher whose chosen purpose is to prevent another mountain glenn from happening hunched over, haunted, in the background. is this a fucking counterfactual.

also if there were people left behind in vale, the mountain glenn undercity is the obvious place for them to flee. it’s not safe, but you can get there from vale through the tunnels (less exposed than driving or flying above ground) and if you can barricade the points of ingress to the cavern, it’s at least a more defensible place to set up an encampment than anywhere out in the open.

and i mean it might be that salem massacred the city and let one ship escape to maximize the damage to morale and provoke as much outrage as possible for the sake of getting the sword out of that vault. but mountain glenn is such a crucial narrative cornerstone, and vale has a history of making the kind of sacrifices ironwood tried to make with mantle, and the specific phrasing used here is interesting (“nothing left” vs “no one left,” “civilian retreat” implying an orderly process a la the evacuation from beacon).

i think it’s also the more narratively interesting and dynamic choice for there to have been a judgment call to leave a large number of people behind—it’s a counterfactual vehicle for unpacking team rwby’s conflicted feelings about their decision-making in atlas through comparison to what vale’s leadership did in the same situation, and there being some ambiguity as to whether anyone else survived allows for a thin ray of hope (maybe there are some people still alive) to galvanize the coalition into a counteroffensive (if there’s even the smallest possibility of survivors, we need to help them. we have to try.) and you draw the tension in salem’s character between her extremism and her effort to chart what she believes is the minimally destructive course to the surface by putting a survivor’s encampment within her immediate reach.

#the army of revolt too maybe.#much to think about!

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howlingday · 2 months

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Weiss: Well, at least I don't rely on a cape as a security blanket in my adulthood.

Ruby: It's not a security blanket! My cape is part of my style, something you wouldn't know about, Miss All White All Year!

Weiss: Oh? Have you been paying close attention to my attire?

Ruby: Only because you keep flaunting your-

Ironwood: (Bangs gavel) Defense Rose... Prosecution Schnee... You can't court here. This is a courtroom.

Weiss: Khm. Right, Your Honor.

Ruby: O-Of course, your honor.

#rwby #rwby lawyer au #ruby rose #weiss schnee #james ironwood #elements of justice

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rwby-encrusted-blog · 3 months

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Winter: Sir, you have a meeting scheduled for tonight.

Ironwood: *Putting on a Hawaiian shirt* I have a date with Glynda tonight. The meeting can wait.

Winter: Sir, it is about the Defense Budget.

Ironwood: Sometimes, Winter, you have to choose between Duty and Booty. Unfortunately one must also live with the consequences of their actions.

Winter: Civilians will be put at risk if we don't sort this out.

Ironwood: ...

Winter: Professor Goodwitch will be more upset if you let that happen than if you had to cancel this.

Ironwood: ...

Ironwood: *Sighs, begins taking Shirt off* Get me my Coat.

#rwby #winter schnee #james ironwood #general ironwood #ironglyn #ironwitch

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sir-adamus · 6 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/sir-adamus/731951197778558976/ironwoods-terrible-tactics-have-been-documented

Given that Watts seems to have been the guy behind the Paladins, I kinda think it wouldn’t be out of the question if he had actually left a manual on how to use the Knights and Paladins to their fullest effectiveness, but Ironwoof just outright ignored it, which only further contributed towards his anger towards Ironwood.

Ironwood's tactical ineffectiveness extends in a lot of directions - not knowing how best to use his resources is a major part of that (most egregious example is that he never updated Atlas's war tactics from Mantle's in the Great War, which don't work with modern equipment or as a defensive strategy when the Kingdom of Mantle was historically the aggressor. and also the loser)

the AK-200s are introduced in volume 2 as 'smarter and sleeker' than the AK-130s we saw in the Black trailer, but the 200s can be torn apart by a drunk man with little effort, hell civilians can take them down with trash cans. being 'sleeker' makes them more fragile and so less useful in general. the 130s being bulkier was an advantage (as is the fact that they had guns built into them as opposed to carrying them. if a 130 is disarmed it's already over, if a 200 is disarmed it's useless because they're clearly not smart if their onboard AI doesn't default to self destruct at that point)

you know what the 200s are? they're newer. Atlas is The Best, because it's always making New Things. and New Things are by default better than Old Things (the AK-200s Look Cool and New, therefore they're better, and totally not just because they're obviously cheaper to mass produce). Ironwood falls into this shit a lot, like volume 8 where he adds a huge unwieldy attachment to his guns that hinders his ability to fight at close range but he still insists on using

#RWBY #rule of thumb - if it looks like it came out of an Apple Store it's garbage

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iamafanofcartoons · 1 year

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Why Ironwood’s actions made him a villain, and Team RWBY’s actions made them heroes.

Let’s go into some perspective about why Ironwood + his regime, and not Team RWBY, was the actual “worse than salem” group. And why Team RWBY are the heroes, and Ironwood and his regime the antagonists.

Let’s turn back the clock to before James threatened to nuke Mantle or blackmail Penny into helping him, and shot down planes that would carry people to safety.

“He genuinely offered all his resources to Team RWBY and co to maximize all the chances of them getting better and winning.” While squeezing Mantle dry.

Pre-V8 he still was authoritarian militarist, who locked down Atlas and Mantle, crippling its trade and defense capabilities of other regions, which led to a lot of people left to starve or die to Grimm, and he was also squeezing Mantle dry on top of it with a blatant disregard to its safety, and only giving it token "support", while his Huntsmen were more concerned with arresting people protecting Mantle, than helping them fight back Grimm.

Mantle was dying in volume 7, and it was all James’ fault, and critics were demanding that after Ironwood squeezed and bled Mantle dry, that Atlas abandon Mantle.

The writing is on the wall, but people are so focused on how he treated RWBY and co that they completely miss (ironically, unlike RWBY and co themselves, as it was their major concern) how he treats literally everyone else.

Of course he would treat them well, they are a very useful asset! Unlike people of Mantle, who could die in a ditch for all he cares.

That's not to say that he wants them dead, of course... he just doesn't care about them. He doesn't care about the people he's sworn to protect.

“ For Mantle, the entire point of the Huntsmen down there was to secure it and cover for the lack of resources. “

Lack of resources he himself created, funneling every drop of dust to his pet project.

James was always a borderline dictator. And he could pretty much brow-beat the Council to do what he needs, seeing how he held two seats out of five, and one was vacant.

“But James isn’t authoritarian!”

Authoritarian: Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

“But Ironwood was trying to prevent invasion of Salem’s agents”

They infiltrated Atlas through Mantle, by means of using outdated security. With Watts even explicitly pointing out that Atlas got the shiny upgrades, but no one cared to get them to Mantle. And Cinder and Neo still got in. Ironwood failed spectacularly. As he always does.

People were losing their jobs and their living because of lockdown, and those who kept theirs, were working in harsh conditions. Grimm regularly invaded Mantle. People couldn't even get their children to schools without Huntsmen protecting them.

“Its for the greater good”

I just don't see any merit in humoring ideas that treat people as expendable pieces on the path to some lofty goal. "Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" logic is the logic of villains.

“Ironwood employed Penny and the robots, that shows he cares!”

The robots were shown to be like Star Wars Movie stormtroopers in terms of effectiveness, and Star Trek Redshirts in terms of survivability.

Also, not caring for someone implies not giving any thought to their problems, and in this particular case those problems were directly or indirectly created by Ironwood's actions or negligence. Sending Penny down there is a band-aid, an illusion of action. Also he was running her 24/7, having girl do the job of an entire military and her sole energy source and repairs comes from her dying father, who’s also being run ragged on Jimmy’s project.

“But Team RWBY used the satellite?”

Should we just discard the progress, if it was made by amoral means? Or should we rather use it, to at least in some way honor those who suffered for it?

“But Ironwood didn’t commit murder till he shot Oscar”

Murder is not the only weapon in dictatorship's arsenal. There’s media control and forbidding public functions and mass gatherings, which Ironwood did in the first episode of V7. There’s also banning weapons unless you’re in the dictator’s private army, which Clover literally confirmed in the 2nd episode, even ignoring Qrow’s license.

“Influential people aren't simply council members. People with money and connection need to receive privileges in exchange for services they may provide. That's how politics work. “

And yet, he literally SINGLEHANDEDLY LOCKED DOWN ATLAS. And neither other council members, nor other "influential people", represented in a show by Jacques, could stop him, despite it hurting their bottom lines. Whoops.

“ Y'all keep forgetting what being a soldier/military man entails. You obey your superior without question. That's not authoritarian, that's how any self-respecting army functions. “

Huntsmen aren’t supposed to be soldiers, they’re warriors who act with a code and serve society, not a general who treats everything like a contest of measuring “GLYNDA!”

Ironwood privatized the Huntsmen System, thus preventing Atlas Huntsmen from serving society, with the exception of the Happy Huntresses, who Clover called “Worse than Grimm” to Qrow. Imagine that defying Ironwood makes you worse than Grimm? Apparently that’s all it took for Robyn Haters.

Speaking of Clover...obeying orders without question? You mean like how Clover decided to defend Ironwood’s decision to abandon Mantle, try to arrest Qrow, and completely disregard the mission to capture Tyrian because “Good soldiers follow orders?” Then the Qrow vs Tyrian vs Clover fight makes sense. Tyrian wanted to cause chaos, Qrow wanted to stop Ironwood and Tyrian, and Clover wanted to obey Ironwood’s orders without question. Qrow made the mistake of thinking that Tyrian, who had never lied before, had meant that “putting the kid to bed” simply meant incapacitating Clover, not killing Clover. Meanwhile Clover had no problem arresting anyone who wasn’t licensed by Ironwood or carrying weapons that weren’t part of Ironwood’s army. I guess Clover did die as he lived...not a huntsmen, but a soldier.

“ Unless they showed someone's corpse or Team RWBY looking at beggars, there wasn't any sign of famine or death as you mention. The most there was is extra security and frequent robot patrols. “

Just because there are no corpses lying around on the streets, doesn't mean that people aren't suffering. A lot of the times their suffering goes unseen. You can't deny that Mantle looks like a mix of cyberpunk slum and depressive post-USSR Eastern Europe city. That's enough to make an educated guess about the state of the city and its inhabitants.

Just because Ironwood sacrifices some things, doesn't give him the right to sacrifice something he doesn't own - namely, other people.

Watts of all people called Jimmy out on neglecting Mantle's security. Aside from that, how did he help Mantle aside from sending a few Huntsmen there, which is, again, a band-aid, and an illusion of action?

“Ironwood trusted them like he trusted Ozpin” Remember what he did to Ozpin in V2. You know, the whole going behind his “Friend’s” back to get Ozpin, Salem’s chief nemesis and founder of the schools, fired? And also putting Penny in the Vytal Tournament despite nobody allowing it if they knew she was an android? This is the same guy who talked about trust? Ironwood is a hypocrite because he loves to talk about trust while betraying everyone else’s.

Remember the episode “Sparks?”

Unrest doesn't happen like *snap* and everything blows up. Tension grows gradually and usually goes unnoticed, until it's at the point when a slightest spark is enough to ignite the situation. What Jacques and Watts did was that spark, but the groundwork was laid by Ironwood's actions raising the tension between Mantle and Atlas. And that growing unrest could be seen as far back as e1 of that volume - specifically, in the drunk racist and Forest.

“Ironwood didn’t expect Watts to be alive!”

Someone broke through a military grade cyber security and caused all Atlesian robots and mechs to go "Execute Order 66″ on people. Whether or not it was Watts is irrelevant, because it's a known (to Ironwood) fact that there's someone capable of doing it*.* You don't need a hindsight to account for it, just a regular sight and basic common sense. Which Ironwood has none. That Ironwood, knowing this, only went as far as updating the infrastructure in Atlas, but not in Mantle, is not just negligence, it's a sabotage of his own goals.

The fact is that Ironwood's methods revealed his disregard for people with whom his goals don't align.

“Ironwood was to take drastic actions! There needed to be sacrifices"

The sacrifices began when he locked down Atlas and Mantle. They were just incidental, a product of ignorance and negligence.

“Atlas was the mightiest military” Name one battle they won that didn’t involve Team RWBY’s help?

Their ships could barely fire upon some giant worms, and had not been updated since the great war, causing them only to be able to effectively fire single laser shots against other ships.

An elite huntsmen can take out tons of weaker grimm. And Ironwood’s ships were useless against grimm as well. The paladins could work...yes.But they had a nasty habit of being stolen or hacked...which was again, ironwood’s fault.

“Qrow was willing to trust Ironwood!”

Even though Qrow told them in V6 that they should ask Ironwood for help, by the time the team actually met Ironwood, Qrow had changed his position to not talking to him. Sound familiar? Something Lionhart?

Ironwood didn't take defensive measures against Salem's forces. We see in the very first episode that whatever Ironwood is doing to keep Salem's forces out of Mantle isn't working.

We learned in episode 2 that he was not only aware of his actions having literally the exact opposite effect of what he was promising the people of Mantle, but he also accepted that.

Even before the main cast met Ironwood, they knew he either had no idea what he was doing, or he wasn't on their side any more. They didn't know which it was, but they already knew they couldn't count on him.

The grand sum of Ironwood’s character is:

“I can tolerate leaving thousands of innocents to die for some vague concept of the great good, but I draw the line at insubordination and lying.”

“But Ruby and Yang were being hypocritical in going behind Ozpin’s back!” A huge part of volume 7 was that Ruby realized that Ozpin was ultimately morally grey, and morally grey I mean his actions he took while thinking of other people. Selfishness is the complete opposite of morally grey, which instantly disqualifies Raven Branwen (mass murderer and thief), Adam Branwen (Mass murderer and terrorist), and Roman Torchwick. (Thief, murderer, and racist) from ever being qualified as morally ambiguous. As a result, Ruby ends up acknowledging Ozpin’s points, and even starts working with him again in V8. Yang on the other hand was agreeing with Blake’s points during the cargo truck ride and decided to go: “Hey Robyn, I know jimmy is oppressing your people and your actions against him are valid, but he’s trying to restore global communications for the greater good and his ‘protector of mantle’ didn’t actually kill your constituents, so if you could please stop taking back what’s yours, James will eventually repair mantle.”

And Robyn went: Okay.

Yang and Blake got Robyn to be willing to compromise with Ironwood, something Ironwood cannot do himself, and something he is incapable of getting people to do unless he abuses his military and political power, which he does on a regular basis.

“But Robyn was a terrorist who sabotaged the project!”

She was taking back the supplies that were meant for Mantle, that Ironwood was stealing from Mantle, for his personal project that was done without the council’s authority. She was giving those supplies back to the people of Mantle. Which emboldened the suppliers of Mantle in giving them hope that they could pressure Ironwood to repair Mantle’s defenses. Ironwood’s response? Call the entire city of Mantle “A few cityblocks”

“Robyn’s outfit and equipment was ridiculous compared to Ironwood’s military”

Yeah, when you’re in a city that’s poorer than Vacuo and oppressed by a small-minded man with a giant ego, you don’t tend to have access to the best equipment, clothes, etc. Not to mention that unlike Vacuo, Huntsmen aren’t allowed to protect people in Atlas unless they’re part of Ironwood’s private army.

“Team RWBY were selfish, Ruby is acting just like Roman!”

Lying to save lives and prevent human extinction is not the same as lying for your own self interest. When the gang steal and airship to get into Atlas, it isn’t an evil thing. They are doing it so they can save lives and protect innocent people. The good guys make sacrifices when they have to, where there is absolutely no other choice. Ironwood would sacrifice anything he could to protect his people, you can debate whether or not he’s a true villain, but he goes to far. Sacrifice isn’t a last resort for him, he believes it is. But most villains believe they’re on the right side. This is why most “Rewrites” that try to “Fix” Roman, Adam , or Ironwood go out of their way to rewrite the plot and characters to try to claim that the Villains are in the right, and to shame any female characters who stand in their way. The both the White fang and the good side use violence. But the white fang use violence and seek division and persecution as vengeance for their own struggles. Ultimately, through salem’s manipulation, they divide the intelligent creatures of Remnant. They attack hurt innocent people to further their own goals. The good guys use violence so that violence can be ended. Remind you of anyone? Cough cough, Batman! The sin of the cynic is acting purely in self-interest. Torchwick's line of "lie, cheat, steal and survive" refers to putting his needs first and foremost. It's not the same as resorting to desperate methods to save lives. Like, Jaune cheating his way into Beacon is motivated by self-interest, but his idea to steal an airship in V6 was motivated by keeping others safe. He isn't proving Torchwick's ideals are right in the latter instance, it's quite the opposite. Same with Ruby.

I'm not sure how people can say that Ironwood was proven right when we are shown that there were ways to save the people of Mantle. It's not even a one-time thing either, he thought that he had to keep forcing Mantle to make sacrifices but it turns out it was completely possible to make a compromise with them.

And if we're going to be completely honest it's Ironwood's refusal to compromise that's the biggest factor regarding Atlas's fate. For example, Neo was able to steal the lamp because his soldiers unintentionally gave her the opportunity and a way to escape. It's what led to Robyn acting the way she did on the plane and everything involving Penny was because of him.

Frankly, the only point I can give critics is the white Fang and it's only because the series so horrifically failed to demonstrate the difference between Sienna and Adam.

“But Ironwood was prepared to compromise with Robyn”

He wanted to have her taken into custody 1st and only then was he going to "negotiate," with her... I don't think I need to explain how this is not under any circumstances an actual compromise.

The actual compromise between Ironwood and Mantle took place in the Schnee Manor and that was entirely thanks to Blake, Yang, and sadly Jacques. And that was a compromise that he broke mere hours later when he decided to completely unnecessarily abandon them all to die... A decision he made without seeking any advice and then straight up threatened the people who dared question him on it.

“Sleet: The fact of the matter is, you've operated with a fair amount of autonomy for the past few years, James. But we need now is for you to work with us “

So Ironwood disrespected his peers and did whatever he wanted, and when called out on it, refused to listen to his colleagues, his equals.

A person arrested and completely at James’ mercy ISNT really a negotiating.

“I can either throw you in jail for the rest of your life OR you can agree to work under me, under my terms and conditions.”

What a “””negotiation.“”” Much fair.

“But Ruby is the villain in the trolley scenario!” If the Trolley is the floating city of Atlas, then the people of Mantle are the ones lashed to the tracks, and Ironwood put them there. Salem is coming up behind the Trolley, and Ironwood wants to bulldoze over the Mantle people. Ruby and the Gang want to get the people on board, but Ironwood refuses to let them on. To the point where he will do anything to prove he’s right and somebody is wrong. Ironwood is literally the man who cuts off his nose to spite his face. So Ruby and Crew use Ambrosius to get everyone to a new destination.

“Ruby and crew destroyed Atlas!” According to Cinder, RWBY saved thousands. And if you think an infrastructure is what makes a kingdom, then you forget that a kingdom is nothing without living breathing people, who live in Atlas, who have made it to Vacuo, and while Vacuo is about as xenophobic as Atlas, they put power in the people, and everyone there works together for the common society. Aka, the greater good. The people of Atlas can do good for each other, when Ironwood isn’t sabotaging everything.

“Ruby sabotaged Ironwood’s broadcast!” Ironwood’s broadcast was “Hey world, I want you to ignore every bad thing I’ve done and every red flag I’ve given off because there’s a greater evil in the world, and I want you to let me use my army that failed to protect everyone into your borders just like I forcibly brought my army into the Vytal Peace festival. I promise I won’t do anything behind your backs like use your events for weapon testing of the human soul like I did back then?

What was Ruby’s Speech? “Hi Everyone, I’m a Huntress, my job is to help you all. Listen, Atlas is under attack by the same bad person that brought down Beacon. We’re all in the same mess. Yeah, she can’t be killed, but everyone working together has been able to stop her the past 80 years, and if we all work together again, we can do it again. Here’s some people you can trust to validate the info, but Ironwood can’t be trusted because of all his actions in the past and his red flags. I believe in you all, because you all can do incredible things, and together everyone can stop Salem”

So Ruby was trying to unite humanity, give EVERYONE the hope and strength to work together and fight Salem, and stop Ironwood from getting too big for his britches.

Ruby was not being a savior, Ironwood was trying to act like he was. Ruby was trying to make humans and faunus alike the saviors. Power of the People.

“Ironwood is a battle-hardened experienced general!” Remnant had been at peace for 80 years, the only conflict was Grimm and the White Fang. And Adam represented the main bad people out there...in Vale. So Ironwood basically used a display of military bravado for everything (Glynda’s words) and people think that’s battle experience? If that’s the case, then Team RWBY and JNPR have loads of experience both on Ironwood in terms of tactics, and on the Ace Ops in terms of combat. Oh wait! THEY DO! That explains why Ironwood fails so spectacularly against Salem and her agents tactics till Team RWBY comes along to help, and why Team RWBY can defeat the Ace Ops.

”He was completely different back in volumes 2-3!″

Why did people look at Adam Taurus, a wannabe edgelord who tried to murder innocent passengers on a train....and then people decided to defend his every action? Claiming Adam was “misunderstood?” What, like Vergil from Devil May Cry, who murdered innocent people for power and had no problem unleashing monsters onto civilians, just like Adam did in Volume 3?

Why did people look at Ironwood, who brought a war fleet to a international peace conference, got screamed at for his warmongering by the Assistant Headmaster who kept her voice relatively level even against team rwby’s food fight, got the headmaster fired for not obeying Jimmy, and used the conference to conduct weaponization of the human soul projects....and claim he was a savior?

So yeah...Ironwood was cool, had drip, had charisma, had good intentions. But his actions spoke louder than his words. Sadly people only listened to his words. Must be his Messiah Complex.

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immaturityofthomasastruc · 5 months

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Who had the worse character murder? Iroonwood or Chloe?

And in Iroonwoods defense, at least the writers tried to do damage control and blamed it on he’s semblance (doesn’t make it any less worse, and actually makes it seem worse written by blaming it on something never mentioned, but at least they show someone knows they kinda totally ruined it, unlike certain person this blog is focused on)

Chloe, hands down.

As poorly handled as it was, RWBY's eighth volume at least let Ironwood be a villain without needing anyone to tell him what to do.

With Chloe, the show wanted us to see her as bad as someone like Ironwood without actually letting her be a effective villain on her own.

... Okay, so I just said RWBY did something better than Miraculous Ladybug. This means I won't be called a homophobe again, right?

#immaturity of thomas astruc #iota #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug salt #chloe bourgeois #queen bee #queen b #not miraculous ladybug #rwby

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tumblingxelian · 8 months

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I have an Ironwood stan in the comments of one of my videos and gods, the level of disconnect between the character and audience when it comes to Ironwood and his stans could fill books.

Like, off the cuff we've got like, projected emotions:

"Can't you see, can't you see how much empathy he had for Mantle, how bad he felt about doing this!?" No, I don't, what I recall is Ironwood equating Atlas's pain, his low approval ratings and Mantle being besieged by monsters as being at the same level.

"Making this decision is obviously breaking his heart, can' you hear the pain his his voice?" Again, no, because he's been screwing Mantle over and dismissing it all volume, what's one more time?

But then you also have them blatantly not understanding how ideology informs behavior, IE:

"If Ironwood is meant to be paranoid why is he neglecting Mantle's security, bad writers, very dumb!" Because, and I need you to stick with me on this, he doesn't think Mantle matters. This is outright discussed in the show, not just by the heroes but explicitly called out by Watts, Mantle's security is neglected, its physical defenses are neglected, because Ironwood's world view is Atlas, he thinks no one would bother with Mantle, because Mantle doesn't matter to him.

Then there's the outright double thing when it comes to dialogue:

"Ironwood never blames the refugees for Cinder getting into Atlas! Just look!!" I cannot stress this enough that you literally quoted the dialogue in which he explicitly blames the refugees for having let Cinder slip through their defenses.

Plus they tend to just take Ironwood at his word, but only when it suits them:

"He said he feels bad so he feels bad." His behavior does not reflect this.

Or they just blame Mettle not seeing Mettle is informed by his stubborn bloody-mindedness not the cause of it.

Its why that are so hard to speak to, they are literally not watching the same show as everybody else, but an imagined version in their head.

#Vent #RWBY

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look-how-they-massacred-them · 9 months

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"Bro brought military ships to The Olympics in an Ally nation to Show Power as his First On Screen Act."

Which he did after being alerted of potential terrorist activity and lack of action regarding rampaging criminal and grimm activity by Ozpin, who was supposed to be in charge of security

"He's the leader of a nation where the rich (himself included) Literally hover above the poor in a protected bubble, away from the hordes of monsters, while funneling all of the resources the poor mine on the surface up to themselves."

He's one of several council members, not the leader. There were still channels he had to go through to do certain things.

The resources were already being funneled and hoarded by the rich slave owning capitalist Schnee Dust Company to begin with

It was Ozpin's idea to float Atlas in the first place.

"After Big Bad Thing happens he cuts off all supply lines to protect his people... by isolating them."

The big bad thing being the active terrorist organization causing the destruction of an entire kingdom, killing thousands, and hacking his network due to having exploited the lacking defense in Beacon, and then said organization threatened to do the same to his kingdom

"He has a good plan for helping the world... which he prioritizes to the detriment and potential death of the people he's supposed to be using this plan to protect. When the good guys show up for help he does help them... while letting the poor people suffer in the arctic weather below."

Said plan was constantly halted by people stealing supplies, and when said people took the supplies under the explanation of "helping the people" did not, in fact, help the people and left the same problems ongoing.

He could not actively explain to the populace what he was trying to attempt because at this point 2 kingdoms were ruined, thousands had died, the world is plagued my monsters drawn to negative emotion, his comrades are either dead or lost to the wind, and it's kind of hard to explain that an immortal witch hellbent on destroying the world is coming to kill everyone everywhere without causing mass panic.

The good guys at this point had also stolen a military vessal, destroyed a mech designed for fighting giant grimm, and nearly destroyed a sea town all because they didn't want to go through the check point that was instated due to, again, terrorist activity actually bringing down two kingdoms already

"He's a good guy who's skewed ideology and excessive power and paranoia twists into a dictator who shoots civilians and is willing to abandon or Bomb thousands of innocents to get what he wants cause of course HE knows whats best for the world so everyone should listen to him. Only he can make the hard decisions."

The "Good Guys" literally hold the entire kingdom hostage, steal his plan, and tried to pass it off as theirs and good after Ironwood made the choice to retreat when THE LITERALL DEATH WITCH WAS ON THEIR DOORSTEP. And most of them spent most of the hostage situation sitting around drinking tea in a cozy mansion owned by their friend while others fought the grimm outside and protected people.

The shooting of civilians did not start until after CRWBY admitted they took this turn because too many people agreed with Ironwood's tactical retreat instead of with our supposed "heroes". This was legitimately a case of bad writing choices to try and make the protagonists look good.

The plan the "good guys" end up coming up with drop several thousand snow-dwelling civilians into a hostile desert environment in a kingdom that their kingdom historically colonized, while also getting several hundred killed in the process due to either the main villains coming in and blowing them up in the magic void or to anyone who did not get the chance to evacuate.

It's not paranoia if you are in constant, active danger of being killed by the grimm witch and her mindless soulless killing beast of despair goop.

Let's not forget the fact that this is an Asian coded character whose look is based off his Asian-American VA, whose a multiple amputee with PTSD that the writers said is less human for having these things, and at the end of the day dies having been betrayed by the very people he was supposed to trust.

JAMES IRONWOOD WAS FUCKED OVER BECAUSE HE IS A DISABLED MAN OF COLOR WHO WAS CALLED INHUMAN FOR BEING DISABLED, CALLED HEARTLESS, AND MADE NEEDLESSLY AND CARTOONISHLY VIOLENT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THE WRITERS BEING ABLE TO PAINT THEIR UWU PROTAGS AS "BETTER" BECAUSE THEY REALIZED THEY FUCKED UP THEIR WRITING.

#rwby ironwood #rwde #rwby #general james ironwood #james ironwood

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kitkatopinions · 1 year

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You realize that you're both ignoring Ironwood's glaring flaws and vilifying the protagonists for not obeying him, while vilifying the protagonists for working with him despite his flaws?

I'm not doing either of those things, you just don't listen. But thank you for at least attempting to refute what I said instead of just churning out the same thing. Let me explain to you how you're wrong.

I'm not vilifying the protagonists for working with Ironwood, because I don't believe they were wrong for working with Ironwood, because I think that he wasn't a clearly bad dictator until he shot Oscar (which started him being shot through a villain arc at the speed of light.) I believe that Ironwood was a flawed good guy who was doing some morally dicey things while stuck between a rock and a hard place, and Team RWBY and co were flawed good guys too who rightfully believed in some of the things Ironwood was doing (like trying to launch the communications tower.) I'm simply pointing out that the belief of many anti-rwdes that Ironwood was clearly a bad dictator throughout his appearances but especially in volume seven - if true - wouldn't make Team RWBY and co look good and would actually reflect very badly on them. I don't believe it to be the case that Team RWBY and co were actively working with a dictator for months. Therefore I'm not vilifying them for willingly working with a dictator for months because I don't believe that they were doing that. But the anti-rwde posters who are of the opinion that Ironwood was always a dictator and that it should've been obvious and anyone who doesn't believe that to be the case is either stupid or a bigot do believe that Team RWBY and co willingly worked with a dictator for months. They're the ones accidentally vilifying the mains, you're just getting angry at me for pointing it out. By their logic (and assumingly yours) Team RWBY and co (and the writers) all belong in the same category as me.

I also don't think that I've really vilified Team RWBY and co for going against Ironwood. either. I've been very clear about the fact that I think that the essentially trolley problem at the end of volume seven was one that had absolutely no 'right answer' or perfect solution, and Team RWBY's stance of 'we should risk it all in the hopes of saving everyone and leaving no one behind' - while a little idealistic - could've been written in a good and very hopeful way. I'm not sure it was a good choice of the writers and I think it could've been done a lot better, but I don't think Team RWBY were wrong to take the stance they did as characters. I feel like I've been clear about that. I don't start getting frustrated with Team RWBY and co until Volume Eight, and I don't think anyone comes out of that volume looking good, and I know I've been very clear about the fact that I think the writers are to blame and still love the characters of Ruby and Yang and stuff even if some of the things they do frustrate me at times.

I also don't think Ironwood is perfect. I've said that over and over. I'd love to know what 'glaring flaws' you think I'm ignoring, lol. Because all I've said recently as far as I know is that I don't think he was a dictator doing things like invading Vale and ruling Mantle as a dictator. If you believe he was, cool. But again, the main protagonists all worked with him and for him willingly for months. I don't think they were wrong to do that, buuuuut..... It kind of feels like you might. XD

#rwde #anti rwby #rwby criticism #rwby critical #pro ironwood #ironwood defense #pro james ironwood #pro iw

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betabites · 8 days

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Y'all. Please, you're killing me here. It is a defensive fortification. There are walls between Shade Academy and the city, yes. There's a cleared space between the city and the walls, yes. You can absolutely read more into that (and they apparently have, in the novels). But you don't let people build up against the walls because that is your kill zone.

You don't want to provide the enemy with a ramp up to your walls, you don't want to let them advance under cover and break through your wall without you getting a chance to shoot them.

Same deal with the courtyard within the walls. Not only is it a training ground, it's the cleared space shooting from the central keep.

Why is the entire city not walled? Well, historically, because a) walls are expensive to make, b) cities always keep growing, so you'll have to keep building more wall (forever), and c) you have to defend that (much longer) wall.

Mantle had a full (broken, mostly unguarded, poorly maintained) wall because they also had heat considerations, and even then, we see that the crater has been filled in with shanties because there are always more people. Vale doesn't have walls, and they still went and founded Mountain Glenn.

Is this an ideal set-up in a world under attack from flying and burrowing monsters? No, probably not (arguably, that's a D&D-style dungeon, or a Dwarf Fortress-esque design). It's also got more gates and entrances than I expect for a serious fortification, but there are always compromises between day-to-day usability and defensiveness. But Shade is both recognizable as a fortress and visually distinct from the rest of the city.

And, yeah, historically speaking, when an attack comes, everyone outside of the wall is out of luck and have to disperse to the countryside (because a siege is your ability to stockpile vs their ability to extend their logistics, and more hungry non-combatants inside the walls helps them and hurts you). Remnant is not Earth, though, and there's no where left to run to; do y'all really think, after all of Ironwood's nonsense, that they're just going to seal the gates against the populace?

#rwby #shade academy #beta has a little rant

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strqyr · 5 months

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i spent way too much time on this—like, "wrote it in google docs first" amount of time—but, uh. team strq ages let’s gooooooo!!!

first things first, some assumptions™ that i’m basing this on:

1. the remnant school year follows the japanese school year, i.e. begins in april, and ends in march the following year.

2. the years are split based on birth year, nice and clean, since blake (who’s born in january) says ruby is “only two years younger” than wby. this would mean that blake had already turned 18 by the time of V1 (she would have been 17 during the black trailer), while weiss and yang turned 18 during V1-2 and ruby 16 during the small timeskip at the end of V3. (this is also what i’m used to, so it’s easier on my brain. don't @ me.)

the second point isn’t super relevant, but it does keep things simple since we don’t know strq’s birthdays; basically, the year students start their first year, they’ll be turning 18, 19 for the second year, 20 third, and 21 for fourth, with the possibility that some may have already turned 22 by the time they graduate.

so. the year strq graduates, they’re 21-turning-22 years old. since yang is born on july 28th, raven would have gotten pregnant some time around november / december (if i did my math right. i did count with my fingers.) since the school year ends in march, and i’m doubtful raven was already pregnant while still at school, at earliest yang could have been born was during the same year raven would turn 23.

and since yang is currently 19, 23+19=42 <- the youngest strq could possibly be in the present day.

(that is, assuming they were all 17-turning-18 during their first year. depending how you interpret raven’s “and qrow and i were the perfect age”, they could have been either exactly the age they should be to attend beacon (17-turning-18), or close enough for the tribe that they could pass as the right age.)

anyway! next part: figuring out how old they were during the V9 flashback.

first, the kiddos. if we are to take what yang said literally about ruby not being able to even talk yet when summer disappeared, ruby being a 2-year-old at the time is probably the safest bet. does she look like a 2-year-old in the flashback? eeeehhh… while i’d be willing to give a little more leeway there since it’s a short scene, to be extra safe, let’s say ruby is about 2-3yo, with yang being 4-5yo. if the members of strq were 23 the year yang was born, they would be about 27-28 at the time of the flashback.

which, if i’ve done my math right (knock on wood), is cutting it pretty damn close for raven becoming the spring maiden—even more so if she didn’t get pregnant the soonest possible moment after graduation—since as per miles: “As for ‘too old’, we don't like having super hard-fast rules for certain things, but we've sort of unofficially figured that 30 is probably around the cutoff point to become a maiden.” [source]

to be honest, i do think the math checks out. in before the dawn, according to yatsuhashi, theodore is “likely in his forties, maybe older”, and ozpin “had been younger [than theodore] but seemed much older.” per raven, ozpin was already the headmaster when team strq was formed, and prodigy or not, if as the headmaster of beacon he had a seat at the vale council (likely, since both lionheart and ironwood had council seat in their respective kingdoms as headmasters) i’m somewhat doubtful the rest of the council would have been super fine with someone who isn’t even the age of a huntsman graduate being in charge of what is essentially the main defense of the kingdom. so, if theodore is likely in his forties, maybe older (let’s translate that into late 40s-early 50s), and ozpin was younger than him but older than strq by at least 4 years, that would put him at ~45 in V1, and ~47 if he were still alive. maybe subtract a year or two, as a prodigy discount if you so please, but all in all, it fits rather nicely: yatsuhashi’s thoughts about theodore’s and ozpin’s ages are accurate-ish, and raven is just the right age to inherit maiden powers if she did get them during summer’s mission—and similarly, if / when summer joined salem, they’d still have to search for a maiden host since summer is going to reach the unofficial cutoff point of 30 very soon.

#rwby #strq #done thinking about ages for the rest of the year me thinks

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bestworstcase · 2 months

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re: talk of Burn, do you have any idea why Yang's aura clearly broke when Neo struck her in V8 (right after activating Burn)? my theory is that perhaps activating her semblance does something like Tock's where it makes her aura manifest more solidly on her body (which is how it can make her hair light on fire) and therefore also, like Tock, means that her aura is more vulnerable. to me this would also explain why Yang would use it as a finisher at first; using it when she's already going to run out of aura makes it, in a sense, less dangerous because she's already gotten most of the other uses out of her aura that she can get.

would love to know if you think this is accurate, or what you actually think is going on with yang's semblance on a mechanical level (if you're interested in that anyway)

first, a general point about aura and aura breaking. the characters’ use of meters has led to a sort of popular fanon that aura works like hit points in a video game, where you have this many and taking damage reduces your HP by a certain number until you hit zero and then your aura breaks; (dark souls splash screen voice) YOU DIED.

i do not think it works that way.

from world of remnant:

aura is a manifestation of the soul, a life force that runs through every living creature on remnant—whether they are a meager shopkeep or a renowned knight. however, what sets true warriors apart from all others is their ability to amplify and control their aura.

aura is the power of one’s soul. it’s guided by emotion, self-knowledge, and spirituality. in its purest form, it becomes a semblance.

defensive aura is not a passive effect. we know this for a fact. in V5, oscar finds it physically exhausting to engage his aura in this way and ren tells him that’s normal—it requires intense concentration at first, then becomes second nature with practice. in V7, jaune’s aura-training demonstrates that recovery, regaining aura once it has been depleted, is a conscious action that can be improved through practice. this is because the “aura level” tracked by those meters is not a measurement of how much aura you have in the tank, as it were, but something like the density of the aura-field you’re pushing outward, or speed of flow, or something along those lines.

(the way i’m handling it in TDT is there’s a hard upper bound to how much aura you can hold in your skin, like a sponge not being able to absorb more water, and what auraleric gauges attempt to measure is % of maximum saturation because everyone’s aura will break around 5-10% saturation even though the amount of aura you have at 100% varies. anything you push out above that threshold is projected as transient bursts of energy and that’s where you start getting into offensive techniques.)

hazel’s phenomenal endurance is noted to derive from his rapid recovery, not the basal amount of aura he has. (he even just shrugs off being impaled.) i believe his semblance gives him an edge here, because it requires concentration to amplify one’s aura and hazel can’t be distracted by physical pain.

which brings me to aura-breaking. it doesn’t happen when the proverbial tank is empty. auras break when you can’t sustain the mental effort of generating enough aura; this might happen because the well you’re drawing from really has run dry (<- think this is what happened to nora with the high voltage door), but it might also be because you’re too tired, or you took a really painful or unexpected hit that shattered your focus, because you’re panicking or furious.

i think tock’s semblance is in the same ‘family’ as hazel’s and ironwood’s in that it puts her into a state of intense focus by blocking out anything that might shake her—with hers being far, far more potent than theirs but so potent she can’t maintain it for longer than sixty seconds, and possibly needs the ticking clock to ‘anchor’ her focus.

(fic stuff again, because tock’s alive in TDT for butterfly wing flaps reasons: sixty seconds is not a hard limit of her semblance; she can and on one occasion did go for much longer. to project an aura field you draw aura out of your reserve, which is the aura that naturally ‘pools’ around your soul; if that runs dry and you’re desperate enough, pushing hard enough, you can wring more aura out of your soul. blood from a stone. it hurts a lot, it will mess you up, and it can do permanent damage similar to what the aura transfer machines do to pietro. sixty seconds is how long it takes for tock’s semblance to drain her aura reserve, rounded down to allow for a margin of error.)

so. yang.

i think, mechanically, when the average person with aura training gets hit, their aura burns up to disperse most of that energy. (<- when they’re swatting gunfire away, the bullets bounce; the energy is reflected.)

but yang’s semblance absorbs energy—which is to say, if you had a ball throwing machine shoot a tennis ball at yang and someone else with equivalent training from the same distance, it would hit yang harder because her aura is less reflective; more of the ball’s kinetic energy flows into her body. then, like a battery, her aura converts that energy into some other form that can be stored.

sort of like dust, in fact. dust has a lot of potential energy, which is released when the material reacts with aura. given the literally explosive firepower yang gains from burn, i think that she’s storing this absorbed energy in the same form as occurs naturally in dust, which would put burn in the same ‘family’ as coco’s hype or arrastra’s equilibrium…

…and would also mean that this statement:

some prefer to use dust in its raw form: elegant, yet destructive. those who choose to wield dust in this state must possess a certain level of discipline to ensure that their resulting powers do not break free of their control.

is true of burn, too. and that tracks with who yang is and how she uses her semblance—even in V1-3, yang takes a more head-on approach to fights and tends to soak up more damage before exploding bigger vs her increasingly nimble and even acrobatic style post-beacon, but her control over those massive volcanic eruptions is immaculate.

the way burn works in general requires that yang be very, very in control of her aura at all times because she needs to balance between absorbing energy to charge up her semblance while reflecting enough to prevent injury, and this is one reason why i think yang is probably the best out of the cast when it comes to using aura. ren might have her beat on the more spiritual, extra-sensory perception side of things, but yang has to keep her focus while getting hit harder than anyone else Because Physics.

and that brings us to neo one-shotting yang’s aura. here is what happens: cinder is gloating from atop a pillar of fire while people scream and run in a panic all around them, and out of the corner of her eye, yang sees a glint of steel and realizes that neo is about to stab her unsuspecting baby sister in the back, she’s too far away, she can’t get there fast enough—burn is, in that moment, a reflex. instinct. she panics and hurls herself in between neo and ruby without even thinking about it because the only thing in her mind is GET TO RUBY NOW.

and that’s why her aura just shatters. it requires concentration—you practice until it becomes instinctive, until you don’t need to think about it, muscle memory. but it still takes focus. intention. yang has incredible self-control and thus incredible control of her aura, but everyone has limits, and hers are “holy fuck that guy stabbed blake” and “neo is going to kill ruby go go go.”

her semblance in itself doesn’t make her defense any weaker—but when she’s terrified enough for burn to activate reflexively like this, her aura will break if she gets hit because she’s freaking out.

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