#idk his redemption arc wasn’t earned
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Risper is like extremely like personal to me. It’s basically me pouring a lot of personal emotions and thots into a fake cartoon and also the maxx like. Rlly helped me. It focuses on my main childhood trauma as a story element and it’s cathartic to read but has some major flaws and shit so I was like. I wanna make smth inspired by it. Without those flaws.
#Mr gone is a. idk.#I feel a complex emotion for him#it’s not wrong to have a character who’s a abuser have the bg that he was abused#in fact I think it was a good choice considering how he feels and what he says abt women#but also toward the end#idk his redemption arc wasn’t earned#also it was rlly cringe to have one of his past victims#become his friend??#like sure ppl can forgive their abusers#but idkkkkk#barking
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OFMD S2E8 SPOILERS
Right so. Izzy is my favourite character. And I don’t mind when characters die. I think if it adds to the story and is a good end for their personal story arc then it can be the best choice. But. I didn’t really like how they chose to go about it.
the story gave him a redemption. he protected the crew and suffered and tried to kill himself. he apologised and was apologised to. he changed and grew and found love and family. he had the respect of his friends and crew, the pirate nation as a whole, and even his enemies. He had the chance to give a speech about the purpose of piracy and a chance to say goodbye to Ed.
Logically this should have meant that his death should have been. Idk like not fine but gratifying.
But for some reason it didn’t feel like that? Usually if a character I like dies I’m some mix of “this is devastating, shouting at the screen, how could this happen” and “holy shit my fav guy is getting so much attention and is narratively important and will get so much fix it fic about them”. But with this i was kinda just like “wait what”.
And I think the reasons for this is because
1. I didn’t think the show would go that far. I personally wasn’t expecting any of the main characters to die. Like ACTUALLY die. This is the show that had Lucius miraculously survive being thrown over board, had stede find his marooned crew on a tiny island in the middle of the ocean, Izzy survived his leg being cut off and was walking on a new prosthetic immediately after, Ed had a canon ball bashed on his head and came away with literally no bruises despite apparently dying… For the muppet cartoon rules to suddenly not apply was jarring. But I suppose Izzy has always operated more in the real world than the rest of the cast.
2. the whole episode was rushed. The pacing was very quick and a lot of stuff happened without much time to process. Having a character die in the last episode means we didn’t get to see much of the other characters responding to it. This isn’t the shows fault cause it was originally meant to have 10 eps but still. i don’t feel it was given the appropriate amount of weight that it should have.
3. Izzy didn’t go down fighting in an epic battle. He didn’t die protecting those he cared about. He was hit by an idiots lucky shot and bled out. Izzy is the first main character to die. He was someone that by the end carried the same narrative importance as Stede and Ed. This is just a personal pet peeve but I think his cause of death should have been hard earned.
4. giving an angry miserable character a redemption and letting them find community and happiness only to then. die. is just very sad. Especially coming from a show that before this has been mostly very kind to its characters and audience.
That said, I think a lot of this can be resolved in s3. I think it is very likely that Izzy will remain in spirit in s3, through flashbacks or hallucinations or dreams etc as we have seen utilised for other characters, and we will see more of Stede and Ed and the crews grief (akin to how the goth crew reacted to Ed shooting Izzy at the start of the season). Izzy’s death isn’t meant to be a punishment for either himself or the audience. And I think the main issue was just a lack of time to flesh it out.
tl;dr: The show usually operates on muppet world rules so to have a main character actually die was unexpected. Since the final episode was rushed the appropriate weight could not be given to such a narratively significant characters death. the fact that izzy did not get to go down fighting or protecting others meant it felt kind of random and unnecessary. And having a show that is usually very kind to it’s characters and audience kill off a character right when they’d finally changed and found community kind of feels like a betrayal. BUT having both first mates (buttons and izzy) “leave” is likely symbolically significant to Ed and Stedes development. And the show will likely give due attention to Izzy’s death in s3.
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I definitely want Mystreet to have more complex dynamics but I also really like that Gene and Dante had a good relationship because they never had the moment MCD Gene and Dante did. Before MCD Gene was put in jail, we know he and Dante had a good relationship, Gene only turned on Dante when he told the guards what he was doing. Plus PDH Gene swings wildly from being super intimidating and awful and evil to not even a mild threat, I’d much rather he just be a toxic drama queen like Laurence said instead of making him an even worse person by making him an abusive brother.
What I think would be more compelling would be Dante being in denial that Gene is a bad person to other people because Gene is only good to him and the shadow knights. His big brother who loves him and protects him and takes care of him? There’s no way he’s doing everything people are saying he is. There’s no way Aphmau’s being serious. It must be a different person. Or she has to be exaggerating. Or maybe she’s outright lying. There’s no way Gene would actually do that, it can’t be true.
I don’t like the redemption arc because of how it’s both too harsh and too soft. He doesn’t have to do much to earn their trust, but before that they all believe he’s guilty until proven innocent to the point where Travis says he’s a bad influence on ‘his little Dante’ and Katelyn proceeds to decide she’s going to get his job taken away. Over childish (I’m pretty sure she outright calls it this) vandalism.
Like it’s one thing to hate a guy for being a pos in high school, it is another thing to report him to the city, probably specifically to get him fired because she could’ve just called the cops on him.
yeah i don’t think them having a troubled relationship would fit in the context of mystreet for the reasons you stated. i just wish dante wasn’t so idk in denial about the fact gene can be a dick sometimes,, just feels unrealistic. anyone would want to defend their sibling but I wish we saw them butt heads or bicker more like brothers. although i get why dante being in denial could be compelling,, as someone with an older brother i just can’t understand how dante would develop this picture perfect idea of gene.
i also like gene just being a pos who then eventually grew out of it and matured but can still be dramatic sometimes. he doesn’t need a redemption arc he just is like that lol. i think that’s why people like him. he wouldn’t be funny if he wasn’t a bit of a dick. you could spin it as dante reconciling with the fact that maybe his friends don’t like gene (and won’t ever like him) but he’s still his family and he knows him better than anyone else. that’s all that matters.
#aphblr#aphmau#mystreet#gene aphmau#aphmau gene#aphmau dante#dante aphmau#aphmau mystreet#mystreet aphmau#aphverse
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I think my favorite thing abt Zuko is how hard it is to actually hate him once you get to know him. Like idk but he's just trying to hard and he's so soft and you look at him and think "baby 🥺" and that's that. Even when he was the enemy i never really hated him bc like, he never really did anything too bad like?? He didn't burn down the SWT village, and yeah he hit Sokka but not hard bc he got up right after. So idk but he's soft bby and hard to hate and i love that.
Okay I love Zuko as much as anyone but like .... he did some true asshole stuff in this series. Like homeboy burned Kyoshi village
kidnapped Katara and held her hostage to kidnap Aang
paralyzed Katara and Sokka with the shirshu
kidnapped Aang in the North Pole when he was in the spirit world, leaving the oasis temporarily defenseless (indirectly allowing Zhao a window to get in and kill the moon spirit)
while he was usually ethical with his Blue Spirit crimes, I’m gonna say stealing from these two was a dick move
ya know....Ba Sing Se
and then the whole Sent An Assassin After Them thing.....explicitly hiring someone to murder a 12-year-old
Zuko is a lot of things, but “baby” he is not.
Deep down, yeah he is soft, but for the majority of the show he wasn’t. We saw that he cared, that he was hurting, and we understood that all his actions stemmed from just wanting to please the father that hurt him, but he wasn’t a soft baby by any means. His anger stemmed from an understandable place, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t take it out on everyone around him (especially Iroh in season 1). He was selfish. That doesn’t mean he was a bad person, but recognizing that he did awful things and understanding that he hurt people honestly makes his character better because it makes his redemption arc all the more powerful.
The reason why we appreciate Zuko as a character so much is because how much he changes. It’s because he does break from the mentality he was stuck in thinking his value rested in Ozai’s approval, his recognition of the suffering of others not just under his nation’s actions, but because of his actions, and the lengths he went to earn forgiveness.
That’s why his redemption arc works, though. He did do awful things. He did hurt people without caring. He was selfish. He was rude. Just because he was acting that way because of his trauma doesn’t negate the severity of the things he did.
But he did make up for it. He came to regret all of his actions and did the work to make amends. Not only by internally recognizing that he was wrong and saying he was sorry, but actively making efforts to repair some of the damage at every step.
And the reason we do sympathize and root for him is mostly because of his motivations in comparison to other characters, namely Zhao, Azula, and Ozai. (And because he loses, a lot.) There’s a post that explains it better, but Zuko’s motivations were completely rooted in his own self-interests, ultimately rooted in just wanting to appease Ozai. And that we can understand. We can’t really sympathize with Zhao, Long Feng, or Ozai because their motivations are political-- they want to exploit people and systems for their own glory and power. They aren’t seeking acceptance or validation like Zuko, they’re seeking control and domination over those who don’t have power.
But it’s easier to root for Zuko, not because we want him to succeed, but because we want him to change sides. We don’t want him to capture Aang because doing so would validate Ozai, who is objectively awful. We don’t want him to win against the gaang because that’s who we’re rooting for. What we want for him is to change because unlike other villains on the show, he isn’t swept up by an ideology and hasn’t let power go to his head.
And part of that is us wanting for him to change how he acts towards others. In season 1 he’s explicitly rude to Iroh multiple times. He was an asshole to everyone because he was taking out his hurt feelings on the people around him.
The reason we’re rooting for him to change isn’t that he was a sweet person or because he was “soft.” It was because he was the underdog.
Those feelings of crushing failure, inadequacy...that’s relatable. It’s certainly more relatable than other villains doing selfish things and hurting people without caring to gain power or to perpetuate imperialism. Those are feelings people can relate to and that makes us want him to overcome those feelings. We want him to realize that his father was wrong and terrible to him and that capturing Aang isn’t the answer.
We could relate to Zuko even in season 1 because his arc was about the realization of his own self-worth. It was about a kid learning that no one deserves cruelty, even him. That’s something he always knew, but didn’t internalize and apply to the world and himself until he witnessed how the Fire Nation affected the people of the Earth Kingdom.
From season 1, we know that it was cruel and wrong and hope that maybe Zuko will realize it too. Because no one-- no one earns cruelty.
And his actions stemming from his hurt doesn’t mean they didn’t hurt others. He did a lot of awful things in this show. His betrayal of Iroh, him putting his own goals in front of people who needed the Avatar to win the war for them, and putting others in danger for his own goals. Zuko hurt a lot of people but he arguably did the work to fix his mistakes. He helped restore the world his family destroyed and made personal amends with the specific people he hurt, Iroh most importantly. He put his life on the line several times, stood up to his father, and protected the gaang from the people he once stood alongside to hurt them (Combustion Man, Azula). We saw his remorse and it wasn’t rooted in being mad at his father, it was upon gaining perspective on the world and realizing how that also applied to him, both in the recognition of the harm he did and the steps he had to take to make amends and the fac that he didn’t deserve the abuse his father delt him.
We wanted Zuko to break out of his mentality from season 1 not only because we wanted the gaang to succeed, but because we knew that his selfish actions stemmed from hurt and a lack of perspective on the world, both things he comes to understand throughout the series. He’s not Zhao, wanting glory or military ranking for capturing Aang. He’s not Long Feng, wanting control over others to keep his position of power. He’s not Azula, who was successful in a way he never was. And he’s not Ozai, perpetuating suffering because he believes himself to be that important. He’s a kid who was told he wasn’t good enough and was willing to do anything to appease the people who told him that, even if that meant hurting other people.
We root for him because he really just a kid who wants to not feel like a failure and honestly? That’s one of the most relatable motivations I can think of.
#tldr#zuko was kind of a dick#but his motivations were inherently different from other villains and stemmed from a relatable place#which is why we root for him not to suceed but to change#he did send an assassin after a 12 year old so I will not be calling him a soft baby by any means#zuko#atla#avatar the last airbender#hot leaf meta#iroh#his unroyal majesty bitchlord ozai#zhao#long feng#aang#katara#sokka
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Given the backstories Mashima gave his characters, he could have done something great with their development, even with juvia who is plain toxic in canon. She was apparently rejected her whole life, why not show the effects it had on her without trying to paint it as comedy ? It's a real shame because most of the characters could have been developed so well but were sacrificed to become love interests or plot devices.
FT Characters (especially juvia) Reduced to Being Love Interests or Plot Devices
You make a fantastic point, Anon!! I agree wholeheartedly.
I’m pretty sure I mentioned something related to that in one of my posts before actually, buried underneath my babble somewhere.
Anyway, juvia would be so much better as a character and way more relatable if Mashima had built her around her hardships and had her character growth come from finally opening up to people and being accepted for who she was with her rain and whatever and them bettering her. she seriously would’ve been actually likable if she hadn’t flipped her crazy switch at the first act of kindness given to her and instead took a while coming out of her shell.
Way more people would’ve been able to relate to her, because I’m sure many of us, if not most, have felt lonely or overlooked or even shunned at times. she could’ve been the bullied outcast people got to sympathize with, and she could’ve gotten the redemption and the hard-earned happy ending lots of us desire for ourselves.
But nope, the juvia we get is the most un-relatable, off-putting, toxic thing ever, which drives people away from supporting her. (Except for her fans who overlook all her bad qualities in order to like her, I guess. At that point, though, honestly, without trying to be mean, Pros— do you even like her at that point? Aren’t you in love with your ‘delusion’ or fantasy of the character and not the character herself? We may never know.)
While lots of people do feel lonely, conversely, I bet most people don’t stalk and harass and have clinically insane delusions about their crush, and yet juvia, who does all this and more, is the one we’re somehow expected to root for.
I really can’t empathize with a crazy, r*pey chick, nor do I want to.
And you’re right that there were lots of other characters that were sacrificed in the name of pleasing the shipper fandom; Gajeel and Levy are most prevalent in my mind after gr///via (and the travesty that is the death of Gray's character in 100yq).
Levy wasn’t a super interesting character to begin with; she just had two guys who were the biggest fans of her for no apparent reason, which she didn’t care about, and she didn’t seem to care about them too much, ignoring them completely when they wanted to be her partner at Tenrou for the mysterious "misunderstood" dude. Overlooking that, she was pretty nice and smart, but that was it. She could’ve definitely gotten a part of an arc dedicated to her breaking past certain barriers and expectations of her petite, waif-ish, and unassuming self, but something that only remotely resembles that only came with her mashed forced pairing with the bad boy, Gajeel.
For Gajeel, I think his redemption was rushed way too fast, and his 180 didn’t make much sense to me, but instead of really exploring his struggle with overcoming his darker nature (I mean if you watch Phantom Lord, he was a real b*stard honestly, beating up helpless Lucy for fun until she was near dead), he just turns over a new leaf with no problem at all, and everyone forgives him despite him not really apologizing to most of them. And then he somehow fell for the uninteresting bookworm whom he’d beaten up and strung to a tree before… idk, Mashima relied too much on the good, book girl and bad boy cliche in hopes of creating a popular pair.
People should be more than merely a cliche or a plot device or romantic interest, because when your identity is solely rooted in loving another person, as I've said before, you cease to exist. You have no personality trait or motivator without your dependency on an outside factor, and that's undoubtedly unhealthy for all parties involved.
Anyway, thank you very much for your ask! Sorry it took a lil while to respond. I loved your observations and points!
#juvia could've been a good character really#she had all the makings of it#mashima just dropped the ball#more like hurled the ball into the sun but you catch my drift#askgraluna#ask#anti gruvia#anti juvia#anti juvia lockser#anti juvia loxar#fairy tail#anon#defend gray fullbuster#gray fullbuster#anti gajevy#anti mashima#anti gray x juvia#anti gray fullbuster x juvia lockser#fairytail#gralunaessay
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If you’re a Maiko fan listing all the things that Mai did to “deserve” Zuko and wondering why people don’t like Maiko or agree with your thesis that Mai deserved Zuko because he “failed her,” then you’ve already discovered the reason why she doesn’t deserve him.
Thinking that you deserve another person’s love is the reason why you don’t.
Especially if you’re gonna say she earned it for putting up with Zuko’s less admirable behavior. That’s not how it works. That’s just a toxic relationship. And y’all have the gall to say zutara fans are toxic???
Zuko especially doesn’t need that kind of guilt-tripping gaslighting since he already spent sixteen years dealing with that shit.
The thing is, I don’t entirely blame the fans for this because the show encourages you to think this is how a relationship should be, or how Zuko’s relationship should be because he started out as a villain or something, idk??? As if his redemption arc wasn’t as much about breaking away from toxic people as much as it is changing your own behavior, because those things go hand in hand.
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This is where I pick apart the plot and say baseless things
I don’t like figuring out things out, which is why my series is so clunky and takes forever to update, and also why I LOVE crackpot and unsubstantiated theories.
(Not conspiracy theories)
This is specifically about crackpot theories that I applied to one of my fics, so PLEASE feel free to disregard.
I was 21 when I finally saw AtLA and had zero interest in shipping. I just really, REALLY liked the show and talking about it. It was because I started hanging out with another fan and we complained about the plot holes (and the fact that she’s a Zutara shipper from her youth) that I ended up following a very, shall we say, intentional pathway.
One of the things I didn’t understand about the story, is how we had a character like Iroh. He arguably went through an off screen redemption arc that obliterates Zuko’s. People mock him repeatedly for his in show status compared to how he was as the “Dragon of the West.” The man pushed his soldiers into a 600 DAY SIEGE. He was the crown prince, and we (now) have canon proof of him looking exactly as he should.
There are a few exceptions to his character, and we can feasibly understand that these points were what the White Lotus used to get him to jump sides.
One is his fondness for his family:
Two is his respect for the spirits.
I want to take a quick detour on something I call: Zuko Is Iroh On Speed Run
IDK if the writers ever had this in mind, but Zuko repeatedly repeats (heh) aspects of Iroh’s off screen life.
First: The Case of the Missing Mom
Azulon looks p cute in Legacy of the Fire Nation right?
I bet he had the ladies at the Academy *ahem*
I don’t think he had any problem getting married, and I bet it was a FANTASTIC match. And by that I mean, he probably got a lot out of it and his wife found out quick that there was nothing good looking INSIDE the man.
She kicks the bucket at some point, and I think this affects Iroh as it pertains to how he views his family.
(I have a separate theory that Azulon had two wives, and that he actually loved Iroh’s mother while Ozai’s mother was a necessity.)
Zuko’s mom disappears and Zuko is profoundly affected by how her absence alters his life. He can no longer trust ANYONE at that moment. (Iroh is not there, his grandfather was okay with him being killed and is now dead, his sister straight up taunted him about his impending execution, and his father was going to go through with it.) It causes him to build walls OH MY GOD IF THE CANON TIMELINE TAKES ~600 DAYS THEN IROH HAD TO DO ANOTHER SIEGE AND SUCCEEDED.
ANYWAY.
Let’s look at the new canon Lu Ten btw:
For a franchise that really likes to whitewash its characters, Lu Ten is looking a little........
....colonial?
I think Iroh fell in love with someone NOT from the main islands of the Fire Nation and Azulon did NOT like that. I think from Lu Ten’s letter, there was some tension at the palace that ramped up the expectations.
Ursa was forcibly married to Ozai, and we see that Azulon wants to use whatever leverage he can in order to win the war.
And we get to another Iroh/Zuko dichotomy.
I believe that Iroh buried himself in Spirit lore as a way to ensure a Fire Nation victory. Did his wife introduce him to it? Who knows. But I do think there was some sort of Earth Kingdom connection because I have a strong suspicion that Zhao learned about Wan Shi Tong’s library because Iroh wanted General Shu to find it.
Similarly, Zuko has disgraced himself in the eyes of HIS father, so he goes off in search of the Avatar to redeem himself.
They both lose everything and make their choice to change because of these things.
There was a crackpot theory that Koh took Lu Ten’s face (which obviously can’t be now that we have the Legacy book) and that it was Iroh’s meddling that brought Koh over.
So maybe it wasn’t Koh, but what if it was another spirit?
In the show, we have Tui and La, Hei Bai, the Painted Lady, Wan Shi Tong, Fang, and I’m throwing in Yue just because. People calling Zuko “the Blue Spirit” implies that people still expect to see spirits from time to time.
I think that a spirit DID kill Lu Ten, and that Iroh WAS the one to bring it over.
We watched what happened with Zuko and Aang.
Now, I think the White Lotus was trying to get to Iroh before Lu Ten’s death. Iroh had seen the Sun Warriors and left them alone. I think Iroh was the one to convince Piandao to take Zuko as a student. I bet Iroh and Jeong Jeong had plenty of talks about the meaning of everything before Jeong Jeong deserted. Between the two of them, I think they convinced the White Lotus to go after the Fire Nation Crown Prince.
Iroh wouldn’t be swayed, though, until after Lu Ten died. He questioned everything; the war, his life, what he was actually fighting for.
On his way home, I think that’s when he heard Azulon had died and Ozai had taken over the throne.
He had a massive army, clearly loyal for staying that long, why didn’t he take them all they way to the palace doors?
Because Iroh had made the choice to humble himself, seek forgiveness, and joined the White Lotus.
Very similar to what Zuko did.
Canon Zuko closes the circle on Iroh’s life, ultimately appearing as a wise, beloved figure in LoK that is also missing a wife.
How does this bring me back to Zutara?
I think the canon ending completely topples the comparison of Iroh and Zuko. Lu Ten was clearly the product of Iroh falling in love with a colonial woman, if not a full blown Earth Kingdom woman. Iroh was meant to be the Fire Lord. Iroh was supposed to be happy.
Zuko is meant to be happily married to his non Fire Nation wife and being Fire Lord, establishing a harmony that recognizes the equal parts of every element.
Zuko is meant to realize all of Iroh’s hopes and dreams.
Not clear? They are mirrored, so not a 1:1 and more of like a palindrome.
Iroh earns his fathers ire by falling in love with a colonial/Earth Kingdom woman
Zuko earns his fathers ire by speaking out about the loss of life in war
Iroh attempts to redeem himself by using spirits to conquer Ba Sing Se
Zuko attempts to redeem himself by capturing the Avatar and going home
Iroh succeeds in finding spirits but doesn’t take Ba Sing Se, heads home having changed
Zuko doesn’t succeed in capturing the Avatar but goes home, hasn’t yet changed
Iroh abandons his family to join the group he thinks is doing the right thing
Zuko abandons his family to join the group he thinks is doing the right thing
Iroh works to support the Avatar
Zuko reconnects to the spiritual side of Firebending and the elements to find peace
Iroh speaks out against the war
Zuko falls in love with a Water Tribe woman oh sorry, I mean a Fire Nation lady thus maintaining the status quo.
During the show, we see a lot of seeds Iroh plants in Zuko’s mind blossom later on. Zuko follows in his uncle’s footprints, not ever knowing that’s what he’s doing.
And Iroh didn’t marry someone from the Fire Nation, that’s clearly obvious.
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this is the analysis where i’m going to be talking about what i didn’t like about the leofiat ending and honestly just their storyline overall so if you want my more positive review it’ll be on my page.
basically i’m overall disappointed. idk if i should blame this on the overwhelming and unnecessary hate sent leofiat’s way or mame’s sucky ass writing, probably both. but they started so strong, like we were seeing basically everything from them and then after the confession they just,,, fizzled out and disappeared without having any proper resolution. like i’m missing closure in a weird way. their scenes today i should’ve seen last episode to be honest like it feels like there’s pieces of the puzzle that we deserved to see that we just did not see. it also really emphasized my point about them only being their trauma, because as soon as that part of the story was over and type did his one good samaritan deed as techno so eloquently put it, they didn’t matter to mame anymore. she didn’t have to write an ending with as much meaning as their beginning.
that being said i felt teased? teased with what could’ve been. like during their walk fiat was looking back and forth from leo’s lips to his eyes just for nothing to happen and i was like okay weird choice. maybe that was first trying to give us SOMETHING but yeah. and then during the song when it flashed to leofiat cuddling it gave me whiplash, first of all, but second, it brought my hopes up thinking we were about to get a happy scene like something those characters so badly needed and something i so badly wanted for them. i was ready for them to make it right with a kiss and then, oh it was A SECOND LONG. a second.
it feels like mame shoved them into these last two episodes without any thought as to how it would come across to the audience that already hated them. if i set my bias aside and look at back at the season as a whole, i can also see how they might’ve felt shoved into the season in general. especially when you set fiat up to be a 3rd person in the main relationship, because now there’s no room for growth. now he’s just a villain to her fetishizing audience. series have side couples that have nothing to do with the main couple but still make them seem like they have a place, and i’m starting to realize that mame didn’t do that well at all. she put no thought into how to smoothly transition the two or make them seem like they belonged. it has a lot to do with the structure but she really did just try and force two series into one and call it a day, i can’t deny that.
and this goes back to my trauma point, i’m sorry i didn’t have more to analyze. that’s how bad their writing was, i have nothing to analyze. i don’t know if mame was so incompetent she didn’t write any growth scenes at all for them or if they were cut but that’s why i feel like i’m missing closure. she was so preoccupied with shoving two series together or she really just does not know how relationships work but leofiat really didn’t say anything, their scene felt like a bone. like a well i didn’t expect anyone to not hate them so i didn���t think i’d have to give you an actual meaningful conversation between them, here you go, bone. fiat might’ve apologized to tharn as far as a redemption arc with himself and leo, it was nonexistent. like why should i be excited they’re finally together when they really didn’t earn it. besides leo being supportive i wasn’t shown enough.
personally it was disappointing because they deserved so much more and jafirst were capable of so much more. they had the chemistry and they had the talent. but all we can do now is support their close friends project and hope for a jafirst series far away from mame.
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I just finished Muriel’s route (upright) and uhhhh wtf. So we spend most of his route following, being yelled at belittled and insulted by the women who was a cause of the genocide of Muriel’s tribe, which we don’t learn in any other route, that same woman who raised her son abusivly and is actively hunting him down to murder him gets a redemption arc by saying “yeah my bad” and then dies and comes back as a ghost??? Okay. Also just felt sooo off with every interaction with the woman from Muriel’s tribe (names aren’t my thing lmao) idk it just didn’t feel natural? Idk. And the forcing Muriel to fight and convincing him that he Needs to fight after all he’s been through is so gross (and kissing him when he’s having a panic attack. Ew). And we’re just meant to see Lucios mum as a good figure after everything, she literally raised Lucio the “I’m not mad u killed ur dad. Mad you killed him in this way so I will kill you now” Okay. And ugh the ending to Muriel’s route. Did we play fucking football???? Other routes had worlds and magic combining (which got a like boring after the 4th one but it was still somewhat interesting) But in Muriel’s route, a character so traumatised due to fighting and being forced, is once again forced to fight and that’s just fine I guess?? AND WE PLAY FUCKING FOOTBALL??? Gonna go do the reversed end but like ??? That wasn’t great.
I absolutely agree. Muriel's route feels so frustrating, like there was so much potential, but it feels like they're too scared to commit to the dark story they started telling. Like you can write a fucked up story about people being awful, but that's not what they were going for and it's not what they made. Like I know I am like projecting mommy issues onto Morga or something but she was awful to Muriel the whole route to retraumatize him to take care of the problems she caused and also is the reason he didnt have somewhere safe and loving to grow up and drove him into a vulnerable state where he was then tortured. So like I really don't think that she earned supportive ghost mom status. I really dislike her... I wish we had a route about teaching Muriel his value outside of the violence he feared would define him...
#youre right and you should say it#the arcana makes me so frustrated theres so much potential and then there's the execution
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the other day i lost the friendly wagerino and @allbeendonebefore was like hey i want 70s stuff but maybe also make it not shitty?
idk if i delivered. i had this idea after she herself made an art and showed it to me revolving around the 70s. i figured id use it. it has a point of hope at the end? maybe it’s the origin story we all needed lamao
also please enjoy the repeated pattern of ed and ét forever saving the other a seat/making room for the other.
also the running gag is how vague can i keep things about the 70s when also writing a fic about the 70s lewl
vague references to many things being made here
Empire of Ash
Somewhere between 1971 and 1975
He doesn’t know why he bothers – doesn’t know why he’s here. There’s no longer a point to any of this anymore. He feels the shift – feels it in the way the others look at him – the way they don’t look at him and it makes his blood boil.
He used to run this show. Would walk in, grace the others with his presence, and they would fawn over him – trip themselves trying to be him. That or they would seethe behind their jealousy. They either wanted to be him or be with him and Étienne had always been willing to oblige. He understood their envy. Understood their want. He couldn’t really blame them. The proverbial world seemed to revolve around him and he’d reigned it with such ease and grace.
It wasn’t always peaches and cream, naturally. He’d struggled – his people had struggled – they still struggled, but – overall, he’d been the example to follow – the one people wanted to emulate. Innovating. Exciting. The place to go – the one to be. An icon. He’d loved it. Loved the attention and the praise. The ease of it.
It had only amplified when he’d been awarded the world exposition. It’d been a last minute decision, sure, but he’d thrived. He’d given them all a show they would never forget. Had put himself on the map for good. For years and decades to come, they would talk about Expo 67. This, would be a Moment never to forget. People would exchange anecdotes about what they had seen – what they had done. About how great and innovative it had been. How wonderful and spectacular. It was, after all, the type of work he loved – bettering his image and his city – thinking ahead. Planning. Putting on a show. Entertaining.
He was very good at entertaining.
He could entertain in so many different ways.
Everyone had looked at him during Expo. Everyone had wanted him then. The stroke to his ego had been enormous. Had been satisfying. So satisfying. It had never been a dull moment. One giant party that had never ended for days and weeks and months. The afterglow had lasted – had pushed him through one winter and then the next. He’d drifted on his high – on his cloud, basking in it for days after, already a fond nostalgia settling in for the long run. The rose tinted glasses and such.
And then it had skittered to a halt. Had come to an abrupt end. The proverbial rug had been pulled from under his feet without warning, leaving him with whiplash that had left a bitter taste in his mouth – that still lingered and rippled. Crept into his body and settled in; poisoned every last remaining good memory. Destroyed and shattered all his hard work.
His empire had crumbled before his very eyes, leaving him with nothing but a pile of ash. Everything he had carefully built, everything he had worked for, gone, in a blink. Because, apparently, they could no longer trust him and there was now too much instability over some political variation of ideology. Because the people in a province that never felt like it cared for him wanted more. Because people dared to want to be recognised and had – taken – action.
Years of loyal service discarded.
It wasn’t his fault. He hadn’t called the shots. He was a victim. A victim of the system. Yet, he bore the lasting consequences of them all.
It was ironic, in a sense, that after years of feeling the oppression of religion, after fighting to break from it – after starting to find his true voice in this world, it was all being taken away and he was being pushed back – returning to a nobody.
However, now he has a chance – another one, to prove to them that he’s still relevant – that they’re all wrong – have been wrong to cast him aside. This will be his redeeming arc. This has to be his redemption. He has no choice. No cards left to play, his deck long ago discarded.
On a good day, he pours every ounce of energy and time into the plans for the Olympics. It’s touch and go; not as flawless and easy as Expo was. He tries to find that same magic, but it seems as though it’s one problem after the next. If it’s not some delay in construction, there’s a strike. If it’s not a strike, there’s a delay. As the calendar ticks on, his anxiety builds and his passion for the project dissipates.
And then of course, everyone is kind enough to remind him that he’s nothing but a has-been – that there’s nothing left to him. His light has shined and now dulled, time be shelved and replaced.
So he decides to stick to what he’s good at. Stick to what everyone wants. What everyone expects him to do. Put his moniker to good use. He knows how to play up his part, after all. He’s never even liked his obligatory job. Never saw the point to the meetings he’s obliged to attend. In his opinion, they run too long. He’s always found them boring, but at least, before, he was able to go and have a good time. Everyone had wanted his opinion. Everyone had wanted him. Because he was the best. He was somebody.
Was.
He is no one now.
In any event. There’s no point to it anymore. He’s found better and more lucrative ways to spend his time. Better ways to chase the thrill of before – to feel alive where there is nothing but decay and rot. He’s found a way to feel wanted, even if for a little while. He knows where to put his skills to good use and make some cash while doing it as well. It’s more than could be said about these sorry meetings.
The best part about his side hustle is that it makes his mayor mad. Makes the tiny bald man seethe and rage. But it makes Étienne grin. He loves that it enrages his mayor. Loves that he can keep finding ways to tarnish his plans of “cleaning up the city.” Étienne no longer is the wide-eyed-bushy-tailed naïve man who had blindly followed him. He’s grown since Expo. (It is a shame though; they’d mostly gotten along then – he’d enjoyed chatting up the man about his vision for the city. He misses the camaraderie, if anything. They may have not always gotten along, but – the man had vision – had helped him make a name of himself. This, however, he disagreed on.)
With Expo, he’d – broadened his repertoire, so to say. Gotten a taste for the more delightful sinful pleasures of life – the full range and experience – had really let loose. It had been thrilling, what with everything else going on from the change in fashion to the freedoms the rest of his people were finally allowing themselves to experience without the fear of God breathing down their necks. His little personal discoveries had proven to be useful now that he needed an extra escapism and a different way to earn his living. The face his mayor had made had been worth it.
Étienne wouldn’t have bothered showing his face to this meeting; would have flipped everyone off and returned to his new life, but his sister had insisted. Had reminded him that with the Olympics looming forward, he had to get his act together. Look presentable. Make an appearance. Remind everyone of what they were. It was all bullshit. He was tired of the hypocrites – the ones who’d died to have his opinion who’d now turned their backs on him. Tired of the fake airs everyone gave themselves at these meetings. The redundancy of them and the lack of anything ever getting done. He could be spending his time in so many other better ways.
But. Élyse had begged and insisted. So he’d gone.
Except now, he itches to get out of the place and get some air. The cigarettes he’s been smoking nearly nonstop since he’s gotten here have done nothing to calm his nerves and even though he knows he could go for something a little stronger to help, he also knows that with these stuck-ups they would have a conniption and keep passing their snide remarks. He tells himself he’s doing it for Élyse. She’s been through enough and – he doesn’t want to make it harder on her. Yet, he feels like he’s either vibrating out of his skin or that suddenly his body is too big, or too small for the ricochet of thoughts in his head. He needs air, a distraction, a hit of something, before he causes a scene, and luckily – miraculously – a break is called just as he’s about to bolt out.
He lights up another cigarette as he looks for somewhere to wait out the break and scowls when all the benches are taken. There are spots left, but the last thing he’s in the mood for is polite small talk. It may have been his forte once, but the idea of it now makes him want to hurl. Étienne considers taking a walk and maybe finding something better to do for the afternoon, but the sight of a familiar sulking figure draws him close.
He recognises Edward after a beat and only feels slightly relieved. Edward is his friend, sure, but they’ve sort of lost touch over the past few years. There’d been a frenzy of letter exchange after Expo and even before that, but – he can’t be bothered to remember whose turn it had been to write back. Then again, Étienne’s got a lot going on in his life at the moment and Edward feels as though he’s part of his old life.
Still, he supposes that Edward hasn’t been unkind to him even if they haven’t sat down to have a heart to heart and at the moment, it’s better than the sneering and jeering. However, the idea of sitting down with someone he knows and having an actual conversation makes him want to set the world on fire. He considers getting out of here again, but just as he’s about to turn on his heels, Edward seems to notice him as well and moves his bag over so that Étienne can sit if he so desires.
He’s ever so thankful when Edward leaves him to his moody thoughts and Étienne is able to breathe a little easier for the first time all day. It might almost seem like companionable silence, but he knows better and takes it for what it’s worth.
Étienne smokes quietly as he lets his thoughts wander for a bit. He reflects on his strange friendship with Edward and how unlikely they came to be. He’d honestly never thought that his own ennui back home would have pushed him to set off exploring the Great West only to stumble upon another lost soul who would turn to be a friend – a confidant really.
He’d – never expected Edward to take him up on it, back then – when he’d told him to keep in touch and write to him. He’d jotted down the address, given it to his friend and then had headed off, not thinking of the hassles Edward might have with finding an actual post office. Yet, eventually, when he’d nearly forgotten about it, a letter had appeared from Edward and Étienne had been more than surprised, even if he’d been delighted.
He’d taken to writing to Edward frequently – or as frequently as was possible at the time. Sometimes, he would run back to the post office to add more to his already long letter, always having more to say to his friend and over the years and decades, he and Edward had built a steady if bizarre friendship through their writing.
It’d been – easy to write to Edward. Easier than it’d ever been to say things out loud, anyways and he’d opened up about many aspects of his life he’d kept close to his heart with the years. In his opinion, Edward knew a lot more about him than Emma and even Élyse – not that he’d let them know. Yet, despite being able to write to his friend about everything that had ever bothered him, this time, he wants to keep his new secret to himself. He’s rather proud of this one anyways and he’s – not sure Edward would understand. Not entirely, anyways.
He sighs and takes another drag of his cigarette. It’s a complicated mess and he’s lost so much already – doesn’t want to chance this at the moment. In case.
It’s strange to think that even though he feels as though he’s found some sort of kinship with the new people he hangs around with, he feels even more alone than before. He’s – different from them. It comes with his status and the fact that despite his appearances, he is not like them – not really human in the full sense and there are certain hurdles he’s gone through that he cannot simply open up about to them.
His musings are brought to a halt when he hears exasperated grumbling from his side. He’s about to scoff and tell Edward to quit it, but then turns to find the other man patting his pockets looking for something. Étienne overhears the words “cigarette” and “forgot” and figures out that Edward must have left his pack inside. He watches the little tantrum unfold for a moment, taking pleasure in seeing someone else frustrated for a while, before it gets on his nerves.
He has enough to deal with as it is. He doesn’t need Edward’s complaining on top of it. With another sigh, Étienne fishes out his own pack and takes a cigarette out before he can reconsider and before Edward can get into a real fit.
He wordlessly hands it over and waits for his friend to realise that there’s an offering being made.
It takes Edward a moment and Étienne gets to the point where he’s afraid he’s going to have to jab the other man’s arm to get his attention, but before that has a chance to happen, Edward sees the cigarette and accepts it with a grumbled thanks. Étienne is about to take out his lighter, in case, but Edward already has it in his hand and lights up his cigarette without much trouble.
It’s the extent of their conversation for the time being and for that, Étienne is grateful. He’s in no mood for talking and he appreciates that Edward keeps to himself. For the first time since the start of the day, Étienne feels slightly less alone and even though they don’t do much, he appreciated the presence of Edward. It’s – familiar, in a sense, even though they haven’t spent all that much time together.
He can probably count on one or two hands the number of times they’ve legitimately hung out together – or even seen each other in the last century, but despite that, Étienne has considered Edward to be one of his closest friends for years now. Yet, somehow or other, even though the live miles apart, they’ve – clicked and bonded and somehow or other stuck around each other.
He supposes, not for the first time, that it must count for something. Maybe.
He’s not sure he wants it to, but as he finishes his own cigarette, Étienne finds himself with the same sense of ennui from before. The idea of sitting though another few hours of meetings still makes him want to hurl and the appeal of getting the hell out whispers soothingly in his ear.
He spares Edward another glance and takes in his friend’s own sour look and discontented face. He figures that maybe – just maybe, Edward might not want to be here too and might want an excuse to get out.
“Hey,” He says, finally breaking the silence between them. “Wanna get out of here? I think I saw a diner worth the detour on my way over.” It’s as good as an offers as he’s ready to make, but Edward, after a moment’s hesitation, carefully nods and stands up.
They walk towards the street and fall into step together, as Étienne thinks that maybe there’s an analogy to be made about misery loving company, but he’d rather hope that instead, maybe he and Edward have more in common than he thought they originally did.
FIN
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So I have been talking with @sophies-earbuds for awhile about sokeefe vs sophitz and I’ve wrote a little about it before, but now I really want to analyze each character in this love triangle madness->starting with Fitz:
[before I take off into the madness I would like to add a disclaimer: this is not meant to prove one ship “superior”, but at some points it will lean in favor of one or the other or both->it’s just meant to add some character analysis to the whole thing (message me if you ever want to talk more about these ships)]
Fitzroy Avery Vacker:
Fitz starts off as being an easily lovable and very cute character. Sophie falls for him, we all fall for him, and soon enough we are on the edge of our seat to see if Sophitz will happen. But just as we start saying he is our favorite, Shannon gives us a look into a trait that will soon define his character in a whole other way.
Alden’s mind breaks.
Shortly afterwards Fitz is left angry, broken, and feeling enormous loads of guilt-wishing that he could’ve been there for his father. Fitz starts to unload his frustrations onto Sophie and that is the first time Sophitz is truly questioned (besides the moment we learn how handsome Keefe is).
His anger issues are not resolved and he never truly finds closure or comes to terms with it. Instead this anger boils over into Alvar’s betrayal, Keefe’s betrayal, almost killing Alvar *twice*, the whole unmatchable drama, and more.
People argue that Shannon ruined Fitz to make Sokeefe happen. But in my opinion, she didn’t ruin him, instead she has now set him up for self growth and redemption.
By the end of Legacy, Fitz is finally adjusting to the changes in his life, he’s slowly realizing that Alvar is beyond his control, and he is working towards finding closure for his friends.
I feel like Sokeefe will eventually happen and that will present another obstacle for Fitz to endure. But Fitz has already hit his lowest point in Legacy, in my opinion. So now he is going to endure the greatest change. I feel like Fitz and Sophie both have a lot of personal growth they still need to go through apart, before they can even try to start dating again. Part of Sophie’s growth will most likely fall along the lines with Keefe’s recovery/new ability and their newish relationship. Fitz needs to refind himself and spend some more time with his family to help him heal. He will obviously depend on Sophie throughout this time and vice versa, but I don’t expect it to be in a relationship way.
Fitz Vacker is not a villain, even though some people paint him out to be. He is just as confused and as hurt and as betrayed as Keefe. He just deals with it in a not so great way. But Keefe also dealt with his guilt in a not so great way in the beginning too (I mean trying to play double agent against the Neverseen is not the smartest). Fitz and Keefe share many characteristics in common and they both have the potential to essentially make each other’s mistakes. But they don’t, instead they learn from them. They learn together, as best friends (wow I’m tearing up bc of Feefe/Kitz [idk their ship name]).
My prediction for Fitz is that he will start to branch off from the group and find his own way. Only once he has grown as a person, will he have a chance at winning back Sophie’s heart. If he does succeed with it all, Sophitz will end with a lot more value than it had in Flashback and Legacy.
So that was my overall *breif* analysis, but if you want more, just keep reading!
The change in Fitz was explained indirectly and perhaps some people missed it. Guilt is a major theme in the kotlc series and plays a big role in each character’s life. It is said multiple times after Alvar’s betrayal how getting angry is a way Fitz’s guilt is expressed. Just like how Alden’s guilt caused him to lean a little harder on his classic “no need to worry” standby. Brant’s guilt caused him to slowly go insane. The guilt Sophie felt for her human parents, eventually led her to a state of numbness. Keefe’s guilt causes him to be reckless. Grady and Edaline’s guilt caused them to shut out the world after Jolie’s death. Eventually each character finds a way to deal with their guilt. Alden eventually admitted that he was wrong to perform the memory break and was provided closure when Della and him helped Wylie and Prentice recover. Grady and Edaline adopted Sophie as a way to fill the emptiness in their home. Even Brant found closure by facing Grady and Sophie (although by then he was already too lost). Keefe is slowly finding closure by coming to terms with his dad, accepting that he isn’t responsible for his mom, and no longer trying to be the hero. He isn’t fully there yet, but Sophie is helping him get there. (This is very important for why sokeefe is such a strong ship but I already said a lot on that earlier) Fitz has never truly found closure and I think that is why he was so upset that Sophie and Keefe let Alvar go. Fitz feels responsible for being played by the Neverseen under his own roof (similar to Keefe). Fitz feels responsible for the shame he brought on his family’s *now questionable* reputation. [That is probably another reason why he wasn’t too happy about the whole unmatchable thing- not because he didn’t love Sophie but because he couldn’t bear hurting his family any more]
His direct family doesn’t blame him, but other members of the Vackers still look down on him. But most importantly, Fitz blames himself. He really wanted to be able to just finish Alvar, not because he is some dark, killing machine- but because he sees it as the only way to ensure Alvar doesn’t hurt the people he loves anymore. To me this is actually a sweeter side of Fitz that is often overlooked as just a creepy trait. Fitz would risk his own well being, he would risk breaking his mind, he would risk living with the burden of killing his brother- just because he believes he can protect his family, his friends, and Sophie. Now as creepy and weird of a justification that is- it is still a valid reason why Fitz would turn into who he is now so quickly. To me Fitz still has the same intentions in mind, but he is so guilt ridden and traumatized that he has gone to extremes.
When you hear him blaming Sophie for bad things that happen to him, it ends up actually being Fitz blaming himself. But Fitz doesn’t have the humility to admit that yet. I used to watch this tv series as a kid that I still love now that had a character who was very guilt ridden. The character was told that to become who he really is he must let go of his feelings of guilt and shame. The character responds *very hotheadedly similar to Fitz* “I’m not guilty or shameful- I am as proud as ever!” He is then told that pride is not the opposite of shame but it’s source. That has stuck with me through reading kotlc because it pretty much describes Fitz.
Fitz is PROUD to be a Vacker, he is PROUD to be a telepath, even in the beginning of the first book he gets defensive when Sophie makes fun of Foxfire because he is PROUD to be a Foxfire prodigy. All this pride can also result in tons of shame and guilt. He feels that he can not make others proud, he can not truly earn his titles, without leaving around loose ends that could tarnish his reputation. When you think about it, Fitz is as proud as ever. He just took elite level tests and will find out soon if he will get in. He figured out how to transmit long distances to Silveny. Sophie and him have strengthened their cognate connection after getting past their feelings. He found the moonlark. He is able to get past Sophie’s blocking. He has accomplished so much, but still feels guilt. His pride causes him guilt and shame, because when something that is out of his control happens- he does not have the humility to admit it. Instead he wants to hunt down Alvar, he wants to be angry for not being there when Alden’s mind breaks, he gets mad at Biana when she gets her scars from Vespera because he wishes he could’ve taken the hits for her. He really does try to be Wonderboy and sometimes he even shocks me with how skilled and smart he really is. But he is still learning how to admit mistakes and move on. This has been his characters biggest guilt related flaw throughout the entire series, it is nothing new. Each character has their own flaws that develop throughout the series.
When Fitz apologizes to Sophie at the end of Legacy, that is when I see his first true act of humility. He apologizes to her before, but this time it just felt so much more genuine because he finally is starting to realize what his actions are doing to those who love him. This is new self growth is where I see Fitz’s character heading. The end of Legacy has given him a chance for a sort of redemption arc. He was never a bad character or evil, he just needs to grow to be his true self. Fitz needs to let go of his past grudges to be able to move forward. He needs to admit that Alvar is out of his control and that he might not be able to be the hero (similar to Keefe again). I feel like when he says he is no longer looking to kill Alvar and hunt him down, but instead is looking for information about his best friend- that really made a difference to me. He is starting to move past it and work towards the greater good. Maybe post-redemption Fitz will have another chance with Sophie. But for now we are all rooting for sokeefe to have a standing chance.
I am so sorry that this is so much to read, but I was going to post all of this eventually so I decided, why not just spam everyone at once??
Soon I will be posting analysis for both Keefe an Sophie, but it will probably *hopefully* be a lot shorter because there is already a ton of great posts about their characters and I don’t want to be too redundant. My asks are always open if you ever want to send in your own opinions/feedback and/or other characters and plots you want to see more of on here!
#fitz vacker#keeper of the lost cities#character analysis#dex dizznee#keefe sencen#sokeefe#sophie foster#sophitz#fitzphie#kotlc fitz#fitz#kotlc shitpost#kotlc analysis#incorrect kotlc quotes#kotlc memes#kotlc headcanon#kotlc fandom#linh song#tam song#biana vacker#della vacker#alden vacker#kotlc biana#alvar vacker#favorite books#books#book analysis#bookworm#shannon messenger
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Bad redemption arcs are motivated by: bringing them to our side is the only way to defeat them.
Good redemption arcs are motivated by motivated by: this character deserves a happy ending.
Evil characters turning good at the last minute because the villain got a hug or felt emotion for the first time feels more like a deus ex machina than an earned character moment. It’s flipping the switch from villain to good guy. That is bad writing. (Not to mention it can leave a bad taste in the audience’s mouth when they see someone that has committed atrocities face little to no repercussions for their actions because hey… we can’t be mean to /good guys/.) It’s why a character like White Diamond from Steven Universe, or Eurus from BBC Sherlock don’t work.
If you want a redemption arc that is genuinely satisfying, the character has to earn it. This is why Zuko’s arc goes over well with basically everyone that watches it. Because the seeds were sewn very early that while he is an antagonist, he is not an evil villain. He never enjoyed hunting the avatar, he was deeply unhappy person. And despite doing some horrible stuff, he never crosses the line of unforgivable. He never takes a life, even when presented with the option. It’s this ‘inner goodness’ that lends to the idea that theres more to him. And there is. The more we see him the more we learn he’s not motivated by power or control. He’s literally /seeking redemption/. Thats his core for the series, the search for acceptance and identity. This is why his redemption feels natural and expected. We end up rooting for him, not because he’s a bad guy and it would be easier if he wasn’t. We root for him because he’s a good person that lost his way. And that work he puts in, the journey he goes on, deserves a happy ending.
Look, not every redemption arc has to follow the Zuko blue print step by step. But if your final villain, the final /showdown/ has to be handled non violently, you can’t just do a switch flip. You can’t just say ‘and then this character you barely know had the rest of their redemption arc off screen probably idk role credits’, and expect the audience to be satisfied.
#steven universe#avatar#bbc sherlock#writing#thoughts#redemption arcs#im not a writing expert this is just what ive noticed#quickie redemptions come off as a real rip off#White Diamond comes off as a character bent to fit the main theme of the show#rather than a character written with a redemption that enhances the show
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the tied to a tree scene was funny for me because that's where I realized "OH. I bet people ship them. EW." and I still see that scene as not even remotely friendly, much less romantic, but I just love the GROWTH! zuko needs the redemption arc before he can be with katara. and then I ship them.
a million percent correct take, let me hyper fixate on this shit lol.
so I started watching in book 2, so I was already aware of a bit of the Growth that had taken place when I saw that scene, but it was still... not a shippy moment for me, you know? I mean bdsm isn’t my thing but that scene is not comparable to bdsm which I believe requires consent and communication, none of which is what we see in that scene, and also blegh they’re children LMAO like they’re kids. I feel gross just making that point. but I think that scene is where a lot of the grosser zutara fic comes from, and it just... warms my little queer heart to not see that shit anymore. like I’m sure it is still being written, but people do learn and unlearn, and that is evident in the most popular fanfic sub genres right now not being slave fic or captivity fic (eurghhhh).
people can and should criticize that shit. I am not the kind of person who is cool with uncritically engaging with media, I can’t do it. and that shouldn’t shock any of my followers lmao. but also, that isn’t the whole of zutara; in fact it’s barely a part of it at this point. and it should only be a part of their personal history insofar as he did that to her and then he learned to be better lmao. just like anything he did to aang or sokka or toph, or anyone!
anon, you’re right. part of the reason I love zutara is because of the GROWTH! you’re a million percent correct, zero percent wrong. because zuko works to earn katara’s forgiveness since he recognizes that while he was not directly responsible for the trauma of losing her mother at a young age to the cruelty of the fire lord (a trauma he shares, albeit differently) he IS directly responsible for betraying her trust in the catacombs of change and empathy. he knows that. and I don’t think him being frustrating that she won’t forgive him means that he feels entitled to her forgiveness, he just wants their relationship to be better. like who among us burst from the womb being emotionally mature? not I.
katara is not just willing to forgive people who have both benefited from and also been marginalized by fire nation imperialism - she is pretty quick to do so. like, this might be an effect of white americans writing an indigenous girl’s story in the first place, but she is able to take an intersectional view on oppression - that once it becomes clear that zuko is a victim to fire nation imperialism, perhaps even moreso than he is a benefactor of it, she is like not just willing to forgive him, but actively BONDS with him, despite of their antagonistic history.
katara is not mad at him in book 3 because of how he behaved prior to the crystal catacombs, or because he is fire nation. if she was, she wouldn’t have gone all painted lady for a town of people who have KIND OF benefited from what their government did to her people. the townspeople of jang hui are a pretty decent representation of like, poor people in west virginia for instance. not to say they aren’t capable of horrific racism, but if they have benefited from american empire it is... not very much. they are victims of industry and capitalism, and oh boy I have gone on a tangent LMAO let me get back to the point.
zuko hurt katara PERSONALLY. he betrayed her trust which was fully given because of their shared trauma at the hands of the fire nation. katara wanted zuko to be better than he had been because she could tell that he wanted to be better. but he wasn’t ready - he still wanted his father’s acceptance more than anything. and sometimes people aren’t ready to change, and what zuko and katara teach us that it’s not the onus of forgiveness is not on the wronged party, that “I’m sorry” isn’t always enough. and that when we hurt people, we need to actually do the work to be better, and if we do that, the person whose forgiveness we want might actually see reason to forgive.
and zuko recognizes this by the time he joins up with the gaang - he is finally ready to be better, not just because he knows that fire nation supremacy is bullshit, but because he recognizes that what his father can give him is not worth losing who he truly is.
and we know that when he tells ozai to eat shit, he’s finally ready, which is why that moment is SO GOOD. but the gaang doesn’t know that, and none of them is as emotionally invested in zuko as katara is. I imagine that she feels immense guilt about nearly “wasting” the spirit oasis water on his scar right before she needed to use it to save aang because of zuko’s betrayal of her (and iroh but). part of her anger at zuko imo is anger at herself for trusting him so quickly, without him earning her trust. she was the first to trust him, so she had to be the last to forgive him.
I think that applies whether you ship zutara or you think she takes the place of azula as his sister. none of what I just said is inherently shippy. to me the best zutara fic is about what happens AFTER the show, who they can be to each other when they are adults, who have learned more about what they want in life. especially katara. but the backbone of zutara to me is not the dark or sexy whatever fuckin bullshit bryke thinks it is, but the forgiveness and redemption and personal growth that they both experience with each other.
zuko is a highly empathetic person who cares about what she thinks and listens to her. and I get that aang is also highly empathetic. and I don’t want to go down the anti-kataang road because I’ve said what I think about kataang, and I don’t think zutara has to be to the exclusion of kataang existing at some point. this goes for maiko as well, although lol mai is a lesbian mailee forever ANYWAY
when I was sixteen and furious at the ending of atla, I didn’t feel that way. now that I am nearing thirty, it is hilarious to think that people don’t love multiple people during their journeys. that is also GROWTH. finding out what you want from partners. it’s natural for someone to love a partner and then fall out of love, or demand something else that their partner can’t give. or doesn’t want.
it’s the growth that does it for me. and I think people who don’t know zutara fandom might not get that because they don’t read our fic, they don’t see our discourse, and they’re allowed to feel that way, they are allowed to not interact with our shit. idk I’m proud of the zutara fandom for its growth tbh. no fandom is free of racism (fandoms are people) but we have done better, and it shows. we try not to get into it with kataang shippers now, which is a lot better than what it used to be. like I don’t see the ship wars anymore, I know they are raging but I’m beyond that shit.
growth!
#zutara#zuko#katara#this got out of hand lol#atla#please if you are anti-zutara just fuckin blacklist it#it's not that hard
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Now that Honor Compels Me is finally done, I wanted to do a round-up of all the things I remember that made me say “I feel like I need to tell someone what almost happened here” or “I should probably explain this later lol”, along with my reasons for cutting the last few chapters/what would have happened in them. It’s prob going to be very long, which I apologize for, but I’ll bold the headings so that you can skip to the parts you’re interested in!
I’ll reblog it and add more as I think of them, but for now:
Dark Dany: VERY originally, like way back in the OG plotline from 2017, Dany was an antagonist, and Margaery Tyrell was Robb’s queen. Dany would have died fighting Cersei in Kings Landing, with the same result (Cersei was ALWAYS going to go out by wildfire lmao). I changed it both because a) it seemed like too many Conveniently Alive people for one story and b) after the shitty ending Dany got, I decided I would try my hand at writing a Dany I could actually root for! For years I’ve been a big proponent/fan of the idea that Dany is eventually going to be an antagonist in the books, but the way it was handled in the show was so irredeemably stupid (gassing her up and gaslighting/scolding her fans later who didn’t see it coming, making her switch at the drop of a hat for the majority of the general audience just for the sake of a twist, etc). I ended up really loving the version of Dany I created. I tried not to soften her TOO much, which is why I had her wrestle with herself even up to the very end (like thinking “I won” after the explosion in Kings Landing and hating herself for it). I didn’t want all the flaws that make me not support canon Dany to disappear just because I started to like her! I do think that writing this story made me like Dany more overall. I still don’t support her canon actions, and I also probably won’t in the books, but I came to find her more compelling as I wrote her. I’m a lot less afraid to write her now than I have been in the past, though I’ll continue to add warnings to all my stories that feature Dark Dany, bc yall Dany stans have been through enough.
More Death: At various points Dany, Theon, Bran, and Arya were going to die.
Dany was already pointed out.
I had Theon die in the Long Night in the plot outline just out of laziness/in keeping with canon, until I remembered that Redemption = Death is stupid and I wasn’t gonna do it.
Bran was going to die after warging into Drogon and being caught in the explosion of the Red Keep. That actually stayed in until a few weeks ago! I told a bunch of people that Bran was going to die! It was the plan all along! And then I realized that “somebody has to die” was a shitty way of looking at it, and I changed it. I think a lot of this process of changing things was me trying to write what I thought people wanted vs what story I actually wanted to tell. Sure it’s a little fairy tale ending this way, but it’s my story, and who cares? Happy endings are nice. Fuck off.
Arya...I probably wouldn’t have ever actually gone through with it, because I am a coward, but there was an idea of a VERY heavy-handed “revenge is bad” message with Arya where Arya was much more savage and instead of turning back into Arya, she was turning farther and farther away from her. She couldn’t reconcile with the Lannisters, she rejected her bonds with her family. In the end she would be unable to let go of her list, would refuse to grow and change and realize that she had other things to live for, and she would have set off one of Qyburn’s traps in the Red Keep, igniting the whole thing, killing Drogon and Rhaegal (and Bran) and leading to the deaths of thousands. AGAIN I was like “that’s too dark” and scrapped the idea, but it was definitely toyed with. I love Arya as a character, so this plotline for her would have definitely been more a reaction to fans of her who seem to want her to hold on to that vengeful seed inside of her.
Prophecies: Listen, I do not give a fuck about any prophecies. I really don’t. Every fantasy universe has some kind of involved backstory that some fans love to get mired in, but I am not one of those fans. Still, I tried to deliver on two of them lmao.
Azor Ahai ended up being Jaime, with Ice/Oathkeeper and Maiden’s Heart being Lightbringer. Originally, I had Brienne killing the Night King, without any thought to the prophecy at all, but that was another case of “people will like it if Brienne kills the Night King” and I realized that I would like it better if it was Jaime. I’m not sure how it checks out literally, but I figured it worked with a) tempering in water = splitting Ice. b) heart of a lion = Jaime’s change of heart after the Highgarden Battle. c) Nissa Nissa = Brienne’s “maiden’s heart” breaking during the Highgarden Battle. It was Brienne who did the stabbing, but it was Jaime who made it happen, so I figured that made sense. I made sure to mention Brienne’s tears and all the smoke when Jaime was wounded, so he could be “reborn amidst salt and smoke” or whatever, and I had Bran mention a rebirth for him in the next chapter. Which was maybe a little on the nose, but IDK GUYS I FEEL LIKE IT CHECKS OUT!
I know the show never dove into the Valonqar prophecy at all, and I think we all know that I absolutely HATE the idea of Jaime being the Valonqar, so I would rather not think about it AT ALL. But Bran AND Rhaegal were both kind of responsible for Cersei’s death in the end, so take your pick of which Little Brother actually did the deed!
Deleted Chapters: I promise you, you are not missing anything with these deleted chapters. They were always messy, and no matter how many times I edited them, they felt too forced and “now let me explain the ending”.
Sansa: Sansa’s chapter followed Jaime’s and was primarily about her going to Robb and Dany and the three of them talking about the future of Westeros. The Dany/Robb conversation about it was originally absent--the last Robb chapter was added to fill in the gaps when I deleted this and the other chapters--so this would have been the first time it was discussed. It then would have had a time jump and a wedding scene, which I could never make work! It was such a jarring time jump in the middle of a chapter, and I didn’t think the wedding was particularly exciting to write about lmao.
Tyrion: Tyrion’s chapter would have been Dany being crowned and announcing to everyone that she and her people are going to be dismantling the monarchy and setting up a new government. I think I had her give a period of a few years in which she and Robb would rule, but they were going to be transitioning governments in that time. Kind of the same idea as in What a King Should Look Like. Bronn also showed up, DID in fact get a minor holdfast, and was mocked by both Lannisters for bowing out before he could have earned himself a better one. Olenna found some bastard daughter to legitimize and continue her house.
Brienne: Brienne’s arc was a lot more drawn out in the original draft, and I ended up editing it a few times and making it shorter. VERY originally, this chapter would have been her wedding with Jaime, at which she has the “wow he actually loves me, huh?” realization. Which I thought was funny as I plotted it out, but in execution it wasn’t as good as I wanted it to be, so I moved the realization to an earlier chapter. The original was also going to be Jaime giving up his name entirely, and Brienne cloaking him, but as we have discussed before, I am in fact a coward, so I just deleted the whole chapter lmao. In all seriousness, at this point the endings just felt like Return of the King, and Into the West was actually the chosen song for this chapter, because I knew even as I was writing it that I was doing Too Much lmao.
Robb: Robb’s last chapter was essentially just a total wrap up chapter. Just Robb and Dany being sappy, Robb being happy he was still alive, and the two of them planning the future. They were at Riverrun for this part, i’m pretty sure, or it might have been Dragonstone? I had trouble even filling this chapter with enough words for it to be a full chapter, because it was basically just an epilogue. As the story progressed, this chapter felt more and more like I was just performing to the “Robb’s Alive” crowd, which I didn’t particularly want to do, because Robb being alive was always a feature, not the focus, of this story.
That’s all the stuff I can think of for now! If anyone has any particular questions you can message me or inbox me about them and I’d be happy to talk about it!
#angel does nanowrimo#honor compels me#this is maybe Too Much but idk here you go in case anyone wants it!!
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im talking about cobra kai idc, i know no one watches it IDC
i am BAFFLED at the amount of people thinking john kreese’s backstory is a redemption arc when all it is is backstory. To explain why/how he’s such an asshole. Pretty sure his flashbacks capping off at him killing a man he didn’t need to kill wasn’t suppose to make us soft for him! This was his worse season by far and people are complaining about the writers trying to redeem him, how? Do they know what that word means?
Between that and people complaining about Sam being annoying for no reason other than her, idk, talking i guess, the fandom is actually kind of a giant pain in the ass and they don’t have the right to be that yet. they didnt earn that badge of honor.
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Zuko is such a JERK when it comes to women! Why do you ship him with freakin' Katara after she suffered trauma not only from him but from his country and his deadbeat family?!? If you legitimately think she would just fall in love for him right after hating him, you don't know her character at all! I mean, she barely even knows him toward the end of the show. Most girls won't go after someone they hardly even know.
You know, I was gonna ignore this, cause it’s bullshit and I’m tired, and I almost wanna wait a while to see how many times I can goad you into sending me the exact same message:
(seriously, did you have that copied to your clipboard or something??? lmfao)
but nah, I’m just gonna stop you right here.
First of all, Zuko is not ‘a jerk when it comes to women’. He’s a socially awkward, traumatized teenager, who tried his best to be a loving and attentive boyfriend when he was actually in a relationship, and with the one other girl we saw him date he was kind and gentle and goofy and risked being found out as a firebender just so he could light some candles for her and make her smile. (If you wanna throw Song into the mix, too, he met her at one of the worst points in his life, and he stole her ostrich horse, which was bad–but he also connected with her in a way we would not get to see him do with anyone else until Katara. And, notably, it wasn’t until he met Katara that he actually let someone else touch his scar.)
Bringing it back to Maiko for a second, at my most charitable towards Mai (whom I do not like, as a character, regardless of ships), they were jerks to each other. While Zuko put in effort which Mai notably did not, and while Mai was dismissive of the efforts he did make, he took out his anger on her in ways he certainly shouldn’t have. (Really, The Beach wasn’t a good look for anyone, but Mai wasn’t exactly an innocent victim in the way their relationship continually fell apart. They were remarkably ill-suited for a couple we’re supposed to believe eventually made a life together.) And Zuko wasn’t being ‘a jerk’, he was hurt and angry and lashing out because nothing made sense, and he was so busily trying to warp himself to fit his father’s twisted image of ‘a worthy heir’ that he very nearly lost himself entirely–not a healthy basis on which to build a relationship, no, and part of why Maiko didn’t work is because it was a relationship based on Zuko trying to be something he wasn’t and could never be again. When he finally realized that, and left his father and his family and his corrupt nation behind so that he could find the avatar and make the world a better place? He was so much happier and healthier, and, if you’ll notice, a whole lot nicer–to himself and everyone around him.
That’s what tends to happen when someone stops lying to themselves about who they are and what they want and what they’re comfortable being complicit in. It’s called character development–you should look it up.
Speaking of development!
There’s this funny thing that happens when a former villain or antagonist has this thing called a ‘redemption arc’ (google is your friend, and it could even provide you with examples!!!) and joins forces or even becomes friends with the heroes–relationship development. Do I expect Katara to immediately fall for someone she hates? Of course not. That’s why, in terms of canon, I have always envisioned Zuko and Katara getting together post-series. While a Z/K endgame would’ve been much more earned than the K/A and Z/M ones we got, I actually didn’t want the epilogue of atla to feature a romantic kiss at all! Because the important thing at the end of the series was the gaang, all together, representatives from all four nations coming together in harmony and unity, and symbolizing the future of peace and prosperity that the gaang had finally achieved by removing Ozai from power.
At the end of the series, Katara no longer hates Zuko. That’s just a fact. You don’t have to like it, you don’t even have to admit it, but you know, even if you insist on lying to yourself about it, that they developed an incredibly close friendship and had the strongest bonds of any two members of the Gaang, save, Sokka and Katara. Whether or not you interpret any of their interaction or feelings as romantic, they are close friends by the end of the series, and know a great deal about each other, not to mention everything they went through together.
Zuko made a concerted effort to learn about Katara’s past, to figure out why she hated him so much more than the rest of the gaang–and when he found out that she was projecting her hatred, not just of the Fire Nation but of the man who killed her mother, onto him, he gave her a way to confront it, and he gave her a means of gaining closure which no one else even realized she needed. He helped her heal in a way that no one else did–and, in turn, she helped him face his uncle and come to terms with the fact that what he’d done in the past did not have to define him now, or in the future. Then she helped him confront the last bastion of his father’s power and influence, and in helping him defeat his sister and then saving his life, she protected the future of the entire world at his side.
You don’t have to like it, but none of the other romantic pairs (or even most of the platonic ones, tbh) got the sort of emotional energy and catharsis that Zuko had with Katara.
As to this priceless bit of non-logic, “Most girls won’t go after someone they hardly even know”: were you asleep when Jet was playing? Katara knew Zuko a whole hell of a lot better, by the end of the show, than she knew Jet when she was hardcore crushing on (and kissing) him. She had an attraction to Haru, too, when they first met and she barely knew him. Hell, she knew Zuko better than Aang knew her when he first developed feelings for her! (And, I’d argue, by the end of the series Zuko knows and understands Katara far better than Aang does, but that’s an argument for another day.) Furthermore, have you never heard of infatuation? Instant attraction? Love at first sight or chemistry at first touch? Sure, people don’t usually build long-lasting romantic relationships with someone they don’t know at all, but idk if you know about this great invention called ‘getting to know someone’–which is something that usually happens somewhere in between the initial attraction and the actual relationship!
Anyway, now that you’ve learned a thing or two, think you could run along and bug somebody else? I’m tired and would rather be spending energy on the mountain of WiPs I’ve been steadily building.
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