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halcyonfawn · 6 months

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the meaning behind "face the raven" theme in "wild blue yonder" and more

a continuation of this post. i need to talk about this otherwise i'll explode.

some people have also said that this theme is playing in "last christmas" and "hell bent" (thank you for pointing that out, i'm going to die) which makes it all even worse (better). therefore, this post is, more or less, destined to turn into capaldi's era brainrot. but not all of it, i promise.

you've been warned.

first of all, allow me to refresh your memory. let's look into the context of the scenes where we heard this music theme before.

"last christmas"

according to series 8 official soundtrack, this theme is a part of "every christmas is last christmas" and is heard quite clearly two times. they're both important scenes for the doctor and clara.

too late.

a moment full of regrets and nostalgia. the doctor thinking he's lost clara again, wishing he would have come back sooner. clara reminicing her life without the doctor in it.

"so no one matched up to danny, eh?" "there was one other man, but that would never have worked out." "why not?" "he was impossible."

it is (heavily) implied that "one other man" is the doctor. does the doctor himself realise that she's talking about him? open for interpretation. but what this small exchange truly does is showing a game of saying something without actually saying it.

"can you really see no difference in me?" "clara oswald, you will never look any different to me."

yet another way of dancing around words. there's something special and touching about this last line. it is sort of a confession of unconditional love. but the word itself - love - is never spoken out loud.

then again, twelfth might be face blind.

second chances.

now, this scene is a complete opposite of the one mentioned above. it's full of hope, anticipation, happiness. a beginning of a new arc. he is given a second chance and he takes it. the doctor asks clara to run away with him once again. and she says "yes" without hesitation, takes his hand, kisses him on the cheek.

conclusion? these two scenes are focused entirely on the doctor and clara's relationship. it is there to show their strong connection, how much they mean to one another. utter devastation at the thought of their time ending and the absolute joy of reuniting after being separated. a chance at a happy ending. which also makes the music that plays on the background their theme.

"face the raven"

"every christmas is last christmas" is now turned into "face the raven" and is asocciated with clara's death. it also makes the previous name even more heartwrenching since last christmas was literally clara and doctor's last hurrah. we can hear this piece of music appear in two scenes as well.

clara's monologue about facing the raven.

"if danny pink can do it so can i. die right. die like i mean it, face the raven. maybe this is what i wanted. maybe this is it. maybe this is why i kept running. maybe this is why i kept taking all those stupid risks, kept pushing it."

she's accepting her fate and aknowleges her recklesness all the way throught the season 9. it was meant to be. there wasn't enough space for two doctors in the tardis.

"i let you get reckless" "why? why shouldn't i be reckless? you're reckless all the bloody time! why can't i be like you?" "clara, there's nothing special about me. i'm nothing but less breakable than you. i should've taken care of you."

this scene is also about how a human life can be so very short compared to the time lord's and how easily it can end. it's fragile. and it's the doctor's curse: bearing the pain of losing his loved ones.

clara meeting her fate.

as she approaches the raven, ever so brave, the doctor watches her. he hears clara scream, then witness her collapsing onto the ground. it is extremely painful, but this is, i repeat, the doctor's curse: watching his companions leave. there's no use in running away from that pain, it haunts him every step of the way.

"hell bent"

next time, "face the raven" theme can be heard during the memory wipe sequence. there is no name given for the background music in this particular moment, but it's quite obvious it represents loss and... letting go?

the doctor is about to make clara forget their time together (does that ring a bell, anyone?).

it is worth pointing out that the music becomes the loudest at the exact moment the doctor says:

"look how far i went for fear of losing you. this has to stop. one of us has to go."

it is the culmination of their relationship. companions that push each other to extremes. together they might destroy the whole universe in order to keep each other safe. there's no other way but to separate. they've formed such a strong connection than one is ought to forget the other.

even though at first the doctor is determined to wipe clara's memories, he then admits she is right: it is unfair to take away all that wonderful time they had from her. so he gives her a choice. or, more like, an offer to play a russian roulette. it's either you or me. i'm not going to press that button. we will do this together.

to summarise: all of these moments featured a strong connection between clara and the doctor. it also tells us a story about how hard it is to lose someone you care about deeply, especially for the doctor.

how is it all connected to the doctor and donna?

memory wipe

the doctor has to make donna and clara forget about him in order to keep them safe. expect that he doesn't give donna a choice, wiping her memory almost instantly, without saying a proper goodbye to her. obviously, he didn't have enough time to think of a better way to solve the problem since donna wouldn't have lasted long. however, it is still a decision he regrets making.

from "the star beast":

"i'm so glad you're back, donna. it killed me, it killed me, it killed me."

if we take a look at clara's situation, it's a bit different. i've already mentioned it above: at first, the doctor wants to do the same thing to clara that he did to donna. make her forget. expect, this time he is confronted for doing so (even threatened, at some point).

"these have been the best years of my life and they're mine."

i think this line triggers something in the doctor. because this is when he realises that this is not the right thing to do. not exactly. he'd already done it once and he regretted it. so this time, he offers a slightly different solution. someone still has to forget, but they'll press that button together. it's a mutual choice.

now, i know it's not entirely related to the dialogue in "wild blue yonder", but i think it's worth mentioning that donna and clara's stories are somewhat similar. i'm sure it's been said before, but it's still important.

donna's story was incomplete because she wasn't given a choice. now, that she remembers, 14th doctor makes sure their time together is worth-while. a second chance just like in "last christams".

too alike

another similarity between these two stories is that clara and donna are not entirely humans. not anymore.

donna's half timelord. even though her head is still not big enough to fit all the doctor's memories, she still has a part of the doctor in her.

clara's frozen in time, that makes her practically immortal. she risks her life, she reverses the polarity of the neuroblock, she gets her own tardis, she's even reffered to as "clara who" at the end of "hell bent". she has become the doctor in a sense.

but there can only be one doctor. so where's the story heading to at this point, i wonder? but we'll come back to this question later.

"but what really happened?"

before i say anything, it is obvious that the doctor's silence before and after he says "a lot" is him reminicing all that'd happened to him during the 11th, 12th and 13th reincarnations. all of the loss and pain he went through.

but why "face the raven" theme of all things? it could be a general theme of grief/nostalgia/painful memories, nothing else implied.

but please let me be delusional for a bit longer!

just as that scene in "hell bent" brought the doctor back to the moment he made donna forget him, could it be that bringing back his best friend's memories in a whole universe that "he absolutely loves", also reminded him of another important person in his life with similar story? just like "hell bent" mirrored "the journey's end", "wild blue younder" gave us a reference to "hell bent".

this is where we get back to the question about the current story direction.

foreshadowing?

donna's story is not over. and there are a lot of possibilities how it can end.

say, there is a connection to clara's story here, i wonder if that's where the plot's heading. in one of the trailers, the doctor does say "i'm not sure if i can save you this time" to donna. and it worries me. then again, maybe they're just tricking us into thinking something bad will happen (oh the drama).

i'd say it's unlikely donna's going to die because that would be absolutely devastating after just bringing her back. at the very least, the ending wouldn't be completely "happily ever after". perhaps, sacrifices will be made in order to prevent something truly horrible from happening.

why did this face come back?

in "the girl who died" twelfth doctor finally realises why he got his face. it is a call-back to "the fires of pompei" (don't even get me started on its being the episode with 10th and donna).

the message the doctor was giving to himself turned out to be:

"i'm the doctor and i save people!"

but what is 14th trying to tell himself?

i think it's about donna and more.

he's fixing his mistake of erasing her memories and depriving her of the right to remember amazing things that'd happened to her.

it's a reminder to actually tell people how much they mean to him. as we can see, 14th's more open with his feelings and constantly shows signs of affection towards his loved ones, even breaking the "never say i love you" rule.

it's about being honest and open with people because they deserve to hear it from him and he deserves to hear it back. because "things happen and then it's too late".

again, take 12th doctor, for instance. he constantly represses his feelings. but in my humble opinion, the reason why he's changed by season 10 was clara. she pulled him out of the dark place. and even though her death almost threw him back to that state again, he is still a better man by season 10.

but there were things left unsaid. love and care were always there but it was never said out loud. kind of the same thing happened with 13th.

i strongly believe that donna is that person for 14th. they're best friends who love each other deeply. and after the doctor lost her and got a second chance to fix everything, he does, he's being affectione. he's finally open with his feelings.

conslusion: why did you make us read all fo this?

to answer the question in the title: it's all tied with how memories are important and priceless, fixing past mistakes, moving on and learning to treasure every moment with people you care about like it's your last.

it can also be a foreshadowing for something terrible, but i choose to hope for the better.

─── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ──

aaaand that is the end of my doctor who rant. thank you for getting this far, if you did!

my feelings about all of this can be described with this one meme:

#doctor who #doctor who meta #dw #dw spoilers #wild blue yonder #twelfth doctor #fourteenth doctor #tenth doctor #donna noble #clara oswald #face the raven #last christmas #hell bent #twelveclara #whouffaldi #i'm sincerely sorry if you've stumbled across some stupid grammatical or other mistakes while reading #i wrote a part of this at 3am #[unhinged analysis]

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themirokai · 1 year

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I was rewatching A Hope in Hell (fast forwarding through the John Dee parts, sue me) and the thing that my Matthew-obsessed brain latched on to was the conversation about Nada.

Because Matthew asks what the deal was after they leave her, and Dream… just straight up answers him! Just freely offers this very personal, emotionally fraught, and quite unflattering information. There’s no resistance, no arrogant remarks, no “I did not bring you here to question me”. Dream just tells him!

Obviously the Doylist explanation is that they’re not doing voiceover narration so they need to explain who tf Nada is to the audience and the episode has a set run time and they have much bigger stuff to get to and didn’t want to spend time on Dream stonewalling. But BUT there’s a cut between when they leave Nada and when Matthew asks about her, so that dialogue could easily have been written to imply that Matthew spent the intervening time trying to get Dream to tell him and Dream finally gives in. It would have used the same amount of screen time and served the same purpose. And while I’m very willing to assume that the writers/show runners of most shows just didn’t think of things, I’m completely confident that *these* writers and *this* show runner thought of *everything*.

Which gets us to Watsonian explanation, my beloved.

Dream was shaken by the encounter with Nada. Even though he knows that that’s what Lucifer wanted and says as much to Matthew, it worked! And Mr. Contains All The Emotions of the Multiverse And Must Hold Them Back is actually visibly upset. (But like, micro expression visibly upset cause it’s Dream.)

And then this defiant, obnoxious raven who refuses to leave Dream alone, asks about Nada and maybe something in Dream’s mind clicks back to the eons in which he had a raven confidant and he answers. He tells Matthew the truth. A succinct version of the truth, but the truth nonetheless. It may be the first time he’s talked about Nada in ten thousand years. And he chooses to tell Matthew.

And THAT is what I’m pinpointing as the canon jumping off point for Matthew the Emotional Support Raven. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

#I do think I get perilously close to Dream being OOC affectionate and caring in the series #but I hope I’ve shown that affection growing over the series #and I do think what I’ve described here is a legit starting point in canon #matthew the raven #dream of the endless #matthew the emotional support raven #the sandman netflix #the sandman #miro does sandman #sandman meta #a hope in hell

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intyalote · 1 year

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what makes me insane about face the raven and “this is my fault” “this is my choice”/ “I am nothing but I’m less breakable than you” is that the whole scene is the doctor expressing guilt for forgetting that clara was human, and clara pushing back by asserting that she didn’t forget, that she was always aware of her own mortality and chose to take all those risks anyway. and while I think the doctor did forget, I’m not entirely sure clara didn’t. I think she did forget that she could die, and she’s rewriting the story in this scene, making it different, because that’s the only way she’ll be able to accept the outcome. and then I think about dark water and how what upsets her most about danny’s death is how ordinary it was. she simply refuses to accept that ‘boring’ or ‘ordinary’ could ever describe her life or the people in it. so it’s really fitting that accepting her own death means turning it into a story, mythologizing her own life with half-truths. the same way the doctor does. and just like the doctor, she gets around death in the end - not by cheating it, but by accepting it and borrowing time. just a little time.

#face the raven is honestly an underrated episode #because it was eclipsed by heaven sent/hell bent which i GET like those two are absolute genius #but they wouldn't work if face the raven hadn't set them up perfectly #dw #doctor who #clara oswald #dw rewatch #dw meta #my meta

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amor-est-potestas · 1 year

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I've borrowed Marisha's tinfoil hat and I'm doing my best Critical Role conspiracy work right now...

Could Predathos be the God of Death that The Raven Queen replaced with her ascension?

The Raven Queen's predecessor was apparently a tyrannical entity, primarily concerned with expanding their domain over the souls of deceased mortals... and part of their domain included Fate and Winter (aspects that The Raven Queen was allowed to keep, as well as the moment of death).

The new implication seems to be that those things have something to do with Ethedok (Endless Shadow - Darkness and Winter) and Vordo (Fateshaper - Fate) being devoured by Predathos.

And I know The Raven Queen's ascension is supposed to have sundered the predecessor's name from reality...

But there has to be some connection here, right?

I have thoughts:

The name wasn't sundered, it was locked away on Ruidus, behind Divine Latticework, with Predathos. Possibly as part of the same process of ascension that The Raven Queen went through. Now that the army of Ruidusborn and Exalted is being amassed, some of Predathos' power is leaking through the Lattice and that's why we have heard the name for the first time? (This doesn't seem the most likely, because I think the general takeaway is supposed to be that Predathos was imprisoned before The Raven Queen ascended... but hey...)

Predathos was sealed away and some of the Gods got pissy about it. It seems like this happened before the Schism, so this could potentially have been the catalyst that triggered the Betrayer Gods to separate from the Prime Deities. Maybe they were angry at the thought of sealing away an entity so powerful as Predathos? Maybe they thought it was wrong to do so? Maybe they were (rightly) worried that it could happen to them too? If this is the case, it's possible that some other God (who sided with the Prime Deities for the purpose of the war against the Primordials, but wasn't a true Prime Deity - actually being more tyrannical) took up the mantle of God of Death, Darkness, Fate and Winter... before afterwards being usurped by The Raven Queen.

I'm even beginning to wonder if, when she was a mortal, The Raven Queen was actually a sort of insurgent - plotting to overthrow the predecessor with her Ritual of Seeding... and if that is the case, maybe she had help to set it all up, from the other Prime Deities?

#critical role spoilers #critical role #lore #Predathos #The Raven Queen #Ruidus #Ethedok #Vordo #Bells Hells #meta

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nydorin · 2 years

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i posted a theory on twitter the other day that everyone imogen sees walk into the storm when they die was killed with the mysterious permakill poison, so i'm going to subject you all to it, too.

people we saw walk into the storm:

bertrand bell: we don't have any information on if bertrand was killed with/without the poison, but we also don't know all of the poison's properties. all we know is that bertrand was killed quickly and easily, despite dugger not being the most powerful of enemies the bells hells faced. we don't know if dugger has anything directly to do with otohan, but treshi did get involved with the shade mother through ira. arguably, orym could have possibly detected the poison on him, but liam/orym would've had no reason to check as of this point.

the lumas twins: they were killed by otohan's shadow figures, (assumably) with the poison. (i can't remember if this was confirmed or not). on the other hand, if they were, the poison is also potent enough to keep their bodyguard, oshad breshio, off his feet recovering for several weeks, most of which he was unconscious for.

who we didn't see walk into the storm: laudna

imogen, notably, didn't see laudna walk into the storm after her death. it was at this point that orym voiced that the reason keyleth hadn't brought will and derrig back because they were killed by the otohan's shadows with some sort of poison that stopped divine magic. (it was also at this point, i believe, that orym checked if he could detect the poison on laudna and didn't. maybe. can't remember.) however, fcg did also cast gentle repose that stopped "something" from happening - we still don't know what. this could have been something to do with delilah, or the poison. not long later, laudna was revived in whitestone.

anyway tl;dr this could mean the poison has something to do with ruidus, possibly feeding their souls to something on the red moon?

#critical role theory #critical role #bells hells #critical role campaign 3 #critical role meta #cr #bh #kc.txt #it's a little nonsensical yes but it felt big brained in the moment #i've also got a kind-of-joke theory that the original moon god is on ruidus #and the moonweaver dethroned them #very raven queen-esque #thanks to the fact we know for sure now that ruidus has influence over chet/lycans #also someone on twt said moonweaver could be quite literal bc she weaved a divine gate around ruidus #additionally sehanine lives in the feywild and could be some type of archfey #possibly why she was so ~offended~ about artagan playing god but then also let him go with a slap on the wrist #as someone who's done ~something similar~#i am thinking Thoughts

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void-tiger · 1 year

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thank you for coming to my dash flood of everything in the lucienne tag up until tumblr started to hiccup. I rEGRET NOTHING.

#tiger’s musings #hyperfixation #queue? what queue #this all started trying to find the fanart or meta of lucienne reading fanfic smut. as a treat. to escape from dream’s bullshit #by consuming ours instead. as a treat.#and discovering that…the lucienne tag is…not exactly dead. but most of the art Specifically about her #is from the first month of the show’s initial release #…i’m. yeah. okay. i’m a bit (more) feral about it #(y’all. my stupid shitpost about ravens was the SECOND tag. another shitpost of mine featuring her but wasn’t exactly FOR her specifically #(was ALSO near the top. that’s…irritating as hell. she deserves better)#(sooooo yeah. I went and reblogged lucienne art. asyoudo.)

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givemewallywestorgivemedeath · 1 year

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Wait raven assaulted Wally?? Was she like, evil then? Why would she do that

Yeah, Raven put a love spell on Wally in the NTT comics. She wasn't 'evil' per say, more like the writers at the time didn't really know how to handle female characters and definitely didn't acknowledge sexual violence against male characters.

That's the meta reason at least. The in context reason is that Wally quit the Teen Titans to go off to university and Raven wanted him to stay on the team. So she put a spell on him that'd make him madly in love with her and always want to be beside her.

I did a few other in-depth posts about this that go into further details.

The bare bones of it is that Wally's worst nightmare at that time was being possessed by Raven and forced to have sex with her. I'm not joking, Wally's literal hell is depicted as that.

When Wally found out about the spell he broke down crying. Soon after he quit the Titans. He was forced to love Raven against his will, he gave up his entire life for her, he left university for her. He hated her but he still loved her. And that's what he left it at.

Do you understand how insane that is? He knows that he hates her. He viscerally hates her for what she did to him and yet he still loves her because she never actually lifted the spell.

It drives me insane because it's still active to this day. If Wally is in the same room as Raven he legitimately forgets his own wife's name in front of his children. It's really gross.

Anyway, Wally has a 'player' reputation from this because he 'relentlessly pursued' Raven but if people actually read the series they'd know it was established from the get go that he was under the influence of a spell. It really fucked Wally up too. The whole thing (rightly) traumatized him and he had a whole bunch of relationship issues after that. (poor dude was traumatized and thought he was unlovable)

Anyway. It sucks.

It's also not the first time Raven's done that to someone

#dc #dc comics #the flash #kid flash #wally west

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luckthebard · 1 year

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Ok so here's the second half of my meta thoughts on C3E51 and encounter design, focusing on the powerful NPCs (former PCs, if you will) (first half of this meta is HERE):

It's so fun and makes narrative sense for Caleb and Beau to be there but I don't think they were ever going to stop Ludinus, no matter how Liam and Marisha rolled. The low rolls meant they got captured as opposed to assisting the Hells more, but once they were captured I kind of breathed a sigh of relief? Not a huge one because I figured Matt wouldn't cross that line, but it was confirmation that they have some degree of plot armor. If Matt wanted Beau and Caleb to truly be in danger of dying without their players controlling them (imo, a breach in ttrpg etiquette unless there were serious conversations about it), Ludinus would have killed them right then. Instead we got a full: "Now Mr. Bond, it would be smarter to kill you, but you must be here to witness my triumph!" Which I love, to be clear - monologue your heart out, Ludinus!

So yeah we don't 100% know what happened to Caleb and Beau in the aftermath, but if they weren't killed earlier there's no way they were killed off screen. And the players are clearly thinking about checking in - Liam called out "who has the sending stone to Caleb" before the ended the episode so it's likely we'll get someone trying that out and rendering any speculation moot soon anyway.

Regarding the other former PCs, Keyleth's role in the encounter was very similar, in that of course she would be there, but this is not her story. So she was more of an encounter beat and an important piece of the narrative, and not as active of a presence. Same goes for the Champion of Ravens, who functioned more as a plot device.

And all of this, really, is related to how this is Bells Hells' story, and not any other party or character's. Keyleth and Beau and Caleb and Vax are there, sure, but they're there to raise the stakes or add texture and tension to the world or, in Vax's case, to be a plot device. They're not active in the way Bells Hells are, even though we know and love them. They're not centered here. It's like how Allura had her own history with Thordak, but even with that she was never the one leading the charge against the dragons, and Vox Machina spent a while not even knowing if she survived the initial attack on Emon.

What is centered in this encounter design and the narrative that comes from it is Bells Hells. They are the active movers in the narrative that unfolded, and they will be the most active pieces moving forward - because we're following them, even as the world continues around them! They did enough damage to somehow mess with Ludinus's plan. There has not been an immediate negative outcome on a planet-wide scale to the machine turning on, although one is surely coming. And Bells Hells are now taking a lot more information (what is powering the machine, the knowledge to target Otohan's Echo machine to weaken her, etc.) into future encounters.

#meta #cr spoilers #critical role #ok I think that's all my long rambling thoughts spewed out across two posts lol #now to get on with my Saturday

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lullabyes22-blog · 8 months

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Mel x Silco - Married AU - A Drabble Thing

Based on this ask by @the-blue-quetzalcoatl <3

Part of an AU meta of the Forward, but Never Forget/XOXO universe.

tw: tubal ligation, pregnancy, miscarriage

tw: dysfunctional family dynamics

"A Medarda has to stay a Medarda. Our lineage is the future. It has to continue. And it must be your priority."

In the Married AU, Mel would still go through with the sterilization. On the outset, Silco would know, and have taken it as a given. In his mind, it'd be smarter to have their bases covered, since having a child caught between two politicking nations is not a fate one would wish on any whelp.

Worst case: they'd end up being used as leverage for politics.

Worst-of-the-worst case: Ambessa might abduct them.

However, I do headcanon that Silco would begin alarming Mel, as the years pass and the two grow closer, by idly speculating what sort of family they'd have made, and what any children he might've had by her would look like.

It would be very difficult for Mel to know whether he's being serious or pushing her buttons - which in turn would start making her second-guess herself.

She'd privately have no desire to have any children. And by this point, she'd be very close with Jinx, and feel a sense of fulfillment in how the girl is blossoming.

In fact, it'd be a private joke between them—

Mel: "So many families have a passel of daughters. It's like they're trying to get the ingredients just right. I already have a daughter. She's perfect."

Jinx: “Damn straight.”

And yet, the more Mel listens to Silco's lazy post-coital musings, the more a nagging part of her brain goes, "Maybe... maybe I could have another?"

And, naturally, once she'd admit that to herself, the question would become, "How? I've already burned that bridge."

The thought would occur to her: "What if we were to find a surrogate?"

She'd nix it the moment the idea comes up. If an outsider were involved, it would only leave room for things to go wrong. There'd be too much risk to their lives, their plans, their position. A few times, she'd catch herself eyeing up Sevika as a potential candidate. Sevika, nobody's fool, would suss out exactly what Mel has in mind.

She'd put her foot down - and take her grievance to Silco.

Sevika: "Your Missus keeps sizing me up like she's assessing property for acquisition."

Silco: "Nonsense. She's admiring your physique."

Sevika: "She asked if my family had any history of issues."

Silco: "With the law?"

Sevika: "With birth defects, sir."

Silco would stop short.

Sevika: "Your lady wife is thinking of putting a bun in my oven. Tell her to knock it off. Or else I will."

Naturally, this would lead to a confrontation between Silco and Mel. He'd demand to know what the hell she was thinking. And she'd snap that it's his fault for putting the idea in her head. He'd insist it was just playful banter, and she'd retort that he wouldn't have said it unless some part of him meant it.

Sophistry is both their weapon of choice, but in this instance, he'd find himself cornered, as nothing leaves his mouth by accident, or without design.

She'd press him: Why does he keep bringing it up?

And he'd fold: "I think you'd make a fine mother."

The honesty would shock her, and the realization would hit: This isn't about lineage. He wants a child.

With me.

They'd end up having an emotionally exhausting but cathartic conversation, where they'd both lay their cards out on the table.

Mel would admit her fears - of everything as surface-level as having a baby and ruining her figure, to as intimate as becoming the woman she sees when she looks at her mother. Besides: pregnancy is moot. She'd made her choice to get fixed, and she can't undo that.

Likewise, Silco would concede that he was playing dirty, and that it's an issue best left alone.

They have Jinx, and Jinx is enough.

The conversation would end with both of them feeling raw, and strangely exposed, but lead to a ravenous reconciliation that would leave the sheets torn up the next morning.

But in the coming days, Mel would realize the thought hasn't gone away.

She'd sit with Jinx, the two of them painting a mural together. Mel would watch the girl, smudged in pink and cackling, and feel a sense of quiet pride.

And she'd wonder: "If I had a child, would I feel this way towards him or her, too?"

Or she'd watch Silco with Jinx, as he patiently teaches her the Demacian Waltz, the two of them sweeping gracefully around the room, and think, "Would he be like this with our son or daughter?"

And each time, the thought would sting: a wound that refuses to scab over.

Mel's pride and her pragmatism would war within her. Her pride would demand her to tell Silco the truth, and suggest they look into feasible options: surrogacy, or adoption. Her pragmatism would whisper that it's an unnecessary complication: a wild card that would threaten the intimate accord that they've fought tooth and nail to establish.

It'd be a constant battle, one that she'd keep secret.

In the summertime, Ambessa would arrive in Zaun for her yearly visit. She'd bring her entourage as usual. Same fanfare, same bluster, same backhanded threats to Silco.

During their greeting, Mel would catch her mother appraising her. Still not with child, her eyes would say. Mel, of course, would play it off, and make her own barbed comments about her mother's advancing age. They'd have dinner, each party polite as if at knifepoint.

In the morning, Mel would be woken up by a knock at the door. Ambessa would be waiting at the threshold.

She'd be cordial, but also brisk, demanding a few moments of her daughter's time.

Mel, knowing her mother, would grimly oblige.

Ambessa would inform her, in clipped tones, that she has made a decision regarding her line's future. She is ready to give Mel the reins of their empire, as well as a healthy supply of wealth, as long as Mel agrees to go through with a procedure to reverse the sterilization she’d done years ago. She has trusted surgeons, who are more than willing to operate.

Mel's gut would heave, but her face would betray nothing.

Ambessa would continue: "You have proven yourself a fine stateswoman, Mel. But in all other respects, you remain a headstrong child."

That would hit Mel like a slap in the face, and her mother would keep going: "I am getting old, and it's time I start preparing for my exit. But I want our legacy carried forward. I'd have preferred it not be spoiled by that no-name Trencher. But he has drive, if nothing else. Perhaps his nation will thrive on its own. Either way, he has his claws dug in too deep for me to oust him from your life."

She'd lean in: "But a Medarda has to stay a Medarda. Our lineage is the future. It has to continue. And it must be your priority."

Mel would swallow the bile rising in her throat.

"Think on it, Mel. It's a small thing. But it would mean the world to me."

Mel would excuse herself with stiff formality, and make her exit. She'd wait until she was alone, and then run to the bathroom and vomit.

Afterwards, she'd sit on the floor, and think.

She would weigh the options in her head. She would weigh the costs and benefits; the haves and have-nots. She would look at it objectively.

And she'd make her choice.

In the afternoon, Ambessa would be told to pack her bags and leave. No reason given.

Silco would find Mel sitting at her vanity, staring into the mirror, her eyes hooded. He'd come over, and rest his hands on her shoulders.

Mel: "If we're going to do this... let's be thorough."

Silco: "Do what?"

Mel: "Have a child. Let's do this right. We'll find a doctor. The best there is."

Silco: "What in Kindred's name has gotten into you?"

Mel: "A little bit of madness. And a lot of clarity."

Long story short: after a hushed conversation with a private Piltover physician, the three of them would discuss options, and it'd be determined that the procedure can be reversed. Mel would be breathlessly giddy, and Silco would be cautiously optimistic.

For the next year, it'd be a frenzied dance – one that would leave Mel jelly-legged each morning. Hers and Silco’s physical quotient, high to begin with, would be turned up to eleven, and every month, Mel would wait with bated breath.

And nothing would happen.

Month after month: nothing.

Mel would start growing anxious. The doctor would assure her there's nothing wrong. The procedure went as smoothly as could be expected. There's no reason why her body shouldn't be responding. She'd begin looking at her belly in the mirror, waiting for her body to change. She'd try every old wives' tale: eat certain foods, drink special teas, sleep with her back facing a wall.

And month after month: nothing

Silco would notice her growing despondent. He'd ask her if she wants to give it up, and she'd tell him not yet. Inside, however, the doubt would gnaw her to pieces.

"Why isn't this working? Why am I failing?"

Her paintings would grow darker, and her silences longer. Jinx would notice, but Mel would keep her worries close to the chest, not wanting to trouble her.

Month after month.

Until one morning, she'd be roused by Silco shaking her awake. The bedsheets would be stained with blood. Not period-blood, but a darker, heavier flow.

The medicks would be summoned.

The doctor would later confirm she'd suffered a miscarriage. Mel would protest she'd not even known she was pregnant. And the doctor would say the signs were there. She'd been drowsy (lack of rest, Mel had speculated); she'd been experiencing morning sickness (a bad batch of oysters from an Ionian gala, Mel had surmised); her mood had been off (she'd been under pressure negotiating an Ionian arms treaty, Mel insisted).

And the list would go on.

Her body had tried to tell her. She just hadn't listened.

Mel would be in bed for a week. She'd cry into her pillow, without sound. Silco would try to console her. She'd explode at him, raging and screaming, and then break down begging for his forgiveness in the next breath.

In her mind, she'd see her mother, shaking her head:

"How could you fail? You're a Medarda. Our family line has never failed."

By the end of the month, Mel would emerge from seclusion and dust herself off. She'd dress in her loveliest gown, put her golden mask on, and return to work.

And she’d never speak of it again.

Jinx would prove her deepest solace. She'd spend time with the girl, teaching her, painting with her, talking about anything and everything. She'd try not to look at her and see her failure, but instead, the daughter she already had.

This girl is the best of the two of us, she'd think. She is enough.

She is perfect.

Silco would be relieved to hear the music of feminine laughter filling the halls again. At night, Mel would visit his room, and they'd take each other with a renewed ferocity.

She'd never ask if he was disappointed.

He'd never offer his pity.

Afterward, she'd hold onto him, and bury her face in his neck, and know she wasn’t alone.

In the summertime, Ambessa would visit, and Mel would meet her at the threshold, her hands folded primly in front of her. She'd greet her mother with cool cordiality, and invite her in. They'd talk politics, and war, and the state of the city. They'd never mention her womb.

It'd be a tacit understanding. The terms of their truce.

A few months later, Mel would order paperwork to formalize Jinx's adoption as her heir, and make sure her name would be inscribed next to Silco's: husband and wife.

Ambessa would receive the announcement in a missive.

She'd read the contents, and then, without reading further, crumple it up and toss it into the fireplace.

Then she'd summon her scribe and have the Medarda line of succession changed to reflect the new arrangement.

Ambessa would think, privately, "What a waste."

And yet, a part of her would admire her daughter's tenacity.

The Medarda line, after all, was spawned by cutthroats and bastards too.

Mel would resume her duties as Councilor with a rekindled fervor. She had a daughter, and her daughter would inherit a brighter tomorrow. Zaun and Piltover would have a strong alliance, one built by her hand, and Silco's. And they'd have a dynasty, one that would carry on their name, and bury the bones of all who stood against them.

They had a family. And a future.

On the Equinox, the three of them would go sailing in the canals. Mel would lean against Silco's shoulder, and watch Jinx dance across the deck, as lanterns twinkled across the water. She'd see a girl, free to choose her own path, not the one Ambessa had carved out for her. She'd have her father's vision, and her mother's compassion. She'd have the best of both of them.

And, if nothing else, the girl would have her.

Later, in the dark, Silco would whisper:

"We'll try again, if you want."

Mel would think of her mother, and a lifetime of expectations.

She'd shake her head, and nestle deeper against him.

"No," she'd whisper, with a smile. "I have all I need."

#arcane silco #arcane league of legends #arcane #silco #forward but never forget/xoxo #forward (never forget)/xoxo #mel medarda #ambessa medarda #arcane ambessa #silco x mel #melco #arcane jinx #jinx

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utilitycaster · 2 years

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Wizard Breakdown Tracker: Mighty Nein Reunited, Part 2

Gather ye wizards while ye may, though with the return to Campaign 3, we are finally headed to Yios, where there are wizards, once we finish with the Gloomed Jungles, where there are were-creatures, which are also very cool. The hierarchy is, as always: paladins; wizards; were-creatures; literally everyone else; dhampyrs, kalashtar, changelings, and "hey DM, can I play a tiefling bard with intelligence 7". But I digress.

Ludinus Da'leth: So at this point (ie, shortly post-this episode), Caleb, known bridge between the Cerberus Assembly and the Cobalt Soul, has taken a job at the Soltryce Academy, which means any efforts to make a new, slightly more palatable volstrucker program and quietly keep it from Archmage Becke are going to go straight out the window. The walls are closing in, and he doesn't even know that Jester can go to the Feywild. 7/10.

Astrid Becke: Caleb listened and took the job! That's one success in what's got to be a thankless new position in many ways. Also I still really want to know who the hell has become Archmage of Antiquity, or if the Assembly just writes that one off as "make a deal to bring back a powerful Age of Arcanum entity and raise it to godhood once, shame on you; make a deal to bring back an powerful Age of Arcanum entity and raise it to godhood twice, shame on us and also what the fuck are we going to do with two nickels in a society that uses gold, silver, and copper currency." 3/10; Astrid's doing better than she ever has in this tracker, and good for her.

Eadwulf Grieve: Caleb is still keeping him in mind, which is good, because he really is like...look, he's a wizard, so he's not dumb muscle, but compared to his two former lovers he's very clearly the 'And Peggy' of the bunch. On the other hand this means he's probably just organizing the Temple of the Raven Queen Yulisen Night Potlucks and inventing the Exandrian equivalent of Minnesota Hot Dish or something. 0/10.

Yussa Errenis: Is aware of the storm on the horizon. Is chilling in his tower. Is largely unbothered. Other people pointed out that while he has developed a reputation for fucking around and finding out, he has also technically never physically left his tower to do so, which is honestly impressive, but does explain why Beau did not have to bamf out a partially dissolved old wizard when she ended up in Uk'otoa's gullet. Anyway, glad he's keeping up with Caleb and making potions. 3/10, for being aware of the storm.

Allura Vysoren, whose name I keep misspelling: Yasha did give Kima back the sword, and Caleb doesn't seem to have her staff, and she helped make a new, cooler sword! 2/10 for League of Miracles reasons only.

Essek Thelyss: Still under a lot of political pressure, regardless of where he is...but he's also getting, as Figueroth Faeth would say, his kisses in, so better than I expected! 5/10.

Caleb Widogast: So here's the thing. It is, as the other post said, about the green beans. And it is, as my last iteration of this said, not time for deep Caleb meta in here. But I do have a lot of thoughts about the similarities between Caleb and Fjord, as I always do, and about how neither of them really had much of an understand of what happens in their life past That One Big Thing They Need To Do, having already woken up at some point and been like *Mitski voice* I used to think I'd be done by 20. I do feel that the Caleb Widogast of part 1 of this two-shot was truly a Caleb Widogast who could go either way re: the T-Dock usage, and the Caleb Widogast of part 2 of this two-shot is not; the event has not (in my understanding, at least) occurred but the decision has unconsciously been made. Also he's dating Essek and he gets to have Dragon Time, which sounds like Floor Time but better. He does get a 4/10 though, because he takes it upon himself to become the Mighty Nein's Social Event Coordinator. As someone who just had to cancel a carefully scheduled D&D session for tonight because I am sick but also the DM and if I have to talk for 2 hours while simultaneously using my brain I will cry, this is very stressful.

Veth Brenatto: Camp's going great! Only one kid died, and not permanently! 1/10.

Known Gem Wizard Hotsauce Lutefisk: Oh so the demigod leviathan CALAMITY SNAKE gets released from its prison beneath the sea, three seals in three temples broken in under 18 months, and yet, I, Halas Lutagran,

Bonus!

Warlock Breakdown Tracker

Fjord: For real? Who knows. I personally imagine that it does, as they say, briefly go to 11, because though Uk'otoa is dealt with and Zehir seems to have understandably gone "you are way too interested in love and the ocean for me to give a shit, I'm going back to bed", Fjord (not unlike Caleb) has to sit with the fact that he's done with that and he's happy OH GOD HE'S HAPPY WHAT THE FUCK DOES HE DO WITH THIS. Also he has to deal with the orphanage, which is going to be traumatic and unpleasant for sure, plus you know someone named "Grankton" is going to be holding a massive grudge against the world at large. But with time, it settles back down somewhere more reasonable, only to briefly spike and resolve again during Kingsley's little maneuver. So you know. Some numbers, probably.

#critical role #critical role spoilers #wizard breakdown tracker

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darkdisrepair · 2 years

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c3e36 - vox machina and the lady of whitestone

in this week's meta, we break down the appearances of FOUR (four!!!) members of vox machina in campaign 3, five if you count trinket, and what makes them all so different, and how this episode was, in a great, beautiful way, a love letter to vex'ahlia.

now, originally, i think we all probably thought that keyleth would be at the center of all of this, as she naturally has the best connection with bell's hells and orym. i anticipated her being a strong advocate for laudna because of her perspective and relationship with orym- and didn't really see her pushing the "we owe her because of the sun tree" angle as hard as other vm characters would have.

but also, it makes so much sense for matt to call keyleth away. this stops her from becoming too much of bell's hells' advocate and benefactor than she already is, as orym's leader.

not to mention the fact that whitestone is, ultimately, vex's and percy's and pike's, and playing keyleth in a space that really isn't hers and not her authority is an awkward power balance for sure. and it's hard enough playing multiple de rolos and pike in the same episode.

though i did love the beautiful nods to her, that we did get- her cloak trailing beauty everywhere she walked was such a great touch. and her rambling awkwardness while spouting all of the things she was dealing with? perfection.

that being said: 1. i think keyleth the most difficult impersonation. 2. our lady pike trickfoot is just such a light every time she appears. plus, it was nice to see her again, and see how comfortable matt was playing her.

i think pike was a necessary appearance. you need a little bit of a brighter character (in the happiness sense) to balance out just how Edgy both of the de Rolo parents can be, and without keyleth, pike is the perfect balance to them.

that being said.

at the end of all this, the most beautiful part of the storytelling in this episode was vex.

was it also amazing to see percy? yes, but, to quote my friend, "i forgot vox machina are condescending assholes," and percy is no different [lovingly].

his reactions, while completely justified given his history and the future he's built for himself and his people, was also just that.

but vex?

this was so much a love letter to her, and her journey with grief, and her journey with everything that happened in campaign 1.

laudna died for her. she died and was mutilated to look like her. and watching bell's hells grieve for this woman, and despite the danger doing everything in her power to help them? going against percy, spending thousands of gold and diamonds?

how could she not.

in the end, it was never a debate, was it? what vex's perspective would be?

if she could spend all the money in the world to get her brother back, don't you think she would? don't you think that she sees herself in bell's hells, in the grief written all over their faces?

fix him, she can remember grog shouting. and sobbing over her husband's body. and waking up cold and shivering on the floor of the raven queen's temple.

and after all that, how could she say no?

and what makes her different form percy? there's the obvious, that laudna was her representation on the sun tree. but at the core- her heart is so good.

all her money tendencies was because she worried that she couldn't care for everyone in her life. all of her standoffishness was because she couldn't bear feeling like she was losing her brother to keyleth.

and she has lost so much. she lost the person who was her world (percy has lost people, too, but there's something still so visceral about her loss that still sticks with me even now).

she is so perceptive.

how could she not see the desperation on their faces? the heavy burden on imogen's shoulders?

the feathers in her hair are black.

not teal.

and i think that was all the clues that we needed to know that vex would never let whitestone abandon laudna.

#laudna #cr spoilers #critical role spoilers #critical role #vex'ahlia #vex'ahlia de rolo #percival de rolo #pike trickfoot #keyleth #campaign 3 #critical role meta

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dontbotherwiththepronunciation · 1 year

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I fantasise about Ramsay's death a lot

I think Ramsay will be killed at some point during ASOIAF but I've been wondering how and what exactly we could get for the narrative of certain characters depending on the different outcomes and I am insomniac so I want to write something more or less useful so I can sleep or at least avoid intrusive thoughts.

So, here is a poll with possible outcomes for Ramsay's death, some of them I've read in meta posts, others are simply stuff I thought could be thematically coherent. Under the read more I added my own preferences because I'm feeling bold. You don't have to read those, but I would love it if you tell me some of yours. And you can tell me all you want about that? Is your answer motivated simply for shipping reasons? Simply for revenge? Do you think it will actually happen? I just like reading other people's thoughts.

My Preferences:

1. Killed off-screen by an unnamed lowborn

My personal favourite. I don't think Ramsay will get an off-screen death scene with an "irrelevant" character and I understand why but until it happens I get to fantasise and while I think for many this would be considered unsatisfying or anti-climactic, to me it would feel thematically coherent and beautiful.

Ramsay Bolton, the living nightmare, a monster from hell, killed by some rando. Someone who wouldn't make it down in history, someone who would be forgotten, someone who would be seen as disposable and irrelevant.

Through this we could have what is, in my opinion, the biggest offence ever directed at Ramsay AND a really sad and harrowing exploration of Theon and Jeyne's feelings on the matter.

Surprisingly, I was never feeling frightened by Euron as I read AFFC, the fear only settled when I read Aeron's preview chapter for TWOW. I was terrified (/pos) how could I not be? The eyes through which I witness all are tainted by terror during that chapter.

With Ramsay the more you think about how our perception of him is one conditioned by Theon's powerlessness, the less mighty he actually becomes. He is not a monster, he is a human like everyone else, he can be killed like everyone else and the concept of knocking him down from this idea he has built around himself, as a creature one should be frightened of, to have him become so irrelevant to the text that we don't even get to witness his death nor know anything about the killer because there is nothing that could be interesting or worthy of mention about that killer is wonderful to me. It makes Ramsay irrelevant and unworthy of mention.

And yet, I also think it would be very tragic for Theon without inflicting any sort of pain on him. Through ADWD he keeps fantasising about killing Ramsay and every single time he keeps himself from actually doing it because at this point Ramsay isn't a person for Theon, he is an omnipotent entity that builds and destroys. So, if he were to find out that Ramsay was easily subdued by someone with no name, no house, no military power, a no one, that could destroy his self esteem. It could lead into even more feelings of guilt and shame while ultimately proving that Ramsay isn't really all that.

I think people (me) often believe in what they like to believe and I would like to believe this is an actual possibility even if the more conscious side of my brain is thinking "Wtf are you on? GRRM is not gonna do that. Do you think he is stupid enough to be this anti-climactic about something everyone is eagerly waiting for since a decade? You think he wants to have people saying show!Ramsay's death was better than book!Ramsay's?" So, yeah I don't believe this will actually happen, I would love it if it did, it would be very meaningful to me, but I have no expectations and I understand how this is probably not something most people would enjoy.

2. Fed to his dogs by Barbrey

All the reasons I want him to be eaten by his gos (listed down in 4.) + my anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorist, Karen Queen Barbrey Dustin.

I have a horribly unpopular opinion about Ramsay's dogs that would get me cancelled for animal cruelty (/hj) and I have a lot of very personal feelings about this woman.

If she is supposed to be a woman who knows how to nurse a grievance (hot) then why would she be alright with letting the boy she thinks killed her surrogate son become Lord of Winterfell or even King in the North? She openly spits on Ramsay (hot) and even defies him through her conversations with Theon. The idea of her being a conspirator among the Manderlys and the Glovers isn't something I've been bought into yet because I still believe in her distaste for the Starks™ being real (hot), but I can't imagine she would feel any more tranquility at the idea of Ramsay turning into her liege lord, if anything I think she would be terrified because HAVE YOU NOT HEARD OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LAST NORTHERN AGEING WIDOW WHO RULED ON HER OWN WITH LANDS TO HER CLAIM AND NO APPARENT HEIRS????

"Me," said Ramsay. "Ramsay of House Bolton, Lord of the Hornwood, heir to the Dreadfort.

To me, that sounds like the vague reminder of a threat.

We have also seen a few moments in which she not only makes her disdain for him public, but also defies him! Prohibiting him from entering into Barrow Hall, treating Theon with something similar to dignity (I know it's only mildly implied but if we ever get confirmation on her being the one who gave him the cloak he wears during A Ghost in Winterfell I will scream and cry ) and she also constantly refers to him as "Bastard" although he has been legitimised)

Also, while I believe she probably knows "Arya Bolton née Stark" is a fake, I doubt she knows it's Jeyne Poole and I also doubt she didn't feel at least some guilt over handing her to Ramsay.

When Jeyne is asking Theon to escape with her she mentions "They said he hurt you." Who said that? Who is they? Could Barb be one of them? Was she warning her? I think it's possible, but I know this is only me assuming things. I have no evidence for anything.

There would also be a lot of irony built around that considering Ramsay's comment on Reek |||:

"If I cut off her teats and feed them to my girls, will she abide me then?"

In a sense I also really love the idea of Ramsay's bones finding themselves in kennels (something Barb is already planning on doing to Ned's (hot)). If both of them find their resting place among the dogs, oh I would feel so much.

Before anyone starts believing I think Ned is as horrible as Ramsay, no I don't. Ned is honourable and just at his best and hypocritical and self-righteous at his worst. Ramsay is himself at his worst and Reek at his best.

The reason I would enjoy this wouldn't be out of thinking that Ned "deserves" that, it would be because Ned and Ramsay are the two people who have hurt this woman the most and also the two people who have deprived Theon of his designated life the most.

3. Public execution by a non-Northerner leader

This is the one I find the most probable to be honest.

Westeros' feudalism seems to be better for the common folk after the Targaryen conquest than they were prior to it. I really doubt GRRM will be willing to dissolve them and send them even further back into an even more inequalitarian feudalism. By having an outsider bring the Northerners their "justice" it would be easier to get them to wilfully decide to reintegrate themselves into the Seven Kingdoms, which is where the Davos-Rickon-Stannis plot will apparently go.

Stannis is already waiting for the battle of Winterfell and I have no idea whether he will win or not, but I think as of now killing the bastard is on his priority list. There is a possibility that he might not kill him immediately but just keeps him captive, and that could be very very fun. While I wouldn't want Theon & Ramsay to have to interact again, I understand how appealing this could be for so many of us. I don't really have anything against this, I just like the other two options mentioned above more.

Asha would be the only case I can think of in this option that could be motivated by more than political plotting or a sense of justice, but also because of personal feelings regarding Theon's trauma. If it were to happen, I doubt it would be a proper execution though, I can see this happening more on the battlefield. I think there could be some beauty in Ramsay "I-rape-girls-for-fun" Snow to find his demise at Asha and her suckling babe, a warrior woman who is also the sister of the man he has been humiliating (to say the least) for the past year. There could be some poetic justice in that. Politically it could also be fun to see the Northerners being confronted by having the Ironborn retaking Winterfell for them and the way their perception of the Iron Islanders could change because of it could be fun and maybe serve as a mirror to the way Asha & Aly have been developing mutual respect for each other. Anyway, here you can find art depicting her & Ramsay as David & Goliath and I love it.

Thematically I would love it if Daenerys would somehow manage to teleport to Winterfell and kill him and be confronted by two uncommon characters that share some similitudes to her past as a child of war & child bride and her actual cause (you can read about those similitudes in this post and this post), but I'm not delusional and I doubt Daenerys will reach the North before Ramsay has been killed so I don't believe it's very probable for them to meet. This is just me being self-indulgent because of the childish wish of wanting my favourite POV characters to interact.

4. Eaten by his dogs our of their own will

As said, I have that one opinion about his dogs and this could go well with it. A taste of his own medicine. Revenge from the deceased. Dog eats dog. Poetic in a sense; The spirits of the women he has raped and hunted and made to be reborn in the bodies of the weapons used against them to take part in the process of making other innocent women join them, finally break free and take revenge against their murderer.

Pretty much the same reasons as to why I like Barbrey feeding him to his dogs, but now there is something more mystique about it. Theon often refers to them as good dogs and it seems like their kennel master Ben Bones also feels fondness for them. Both of them consider the master to be the true monster there, and yet these are still no gentle creatures.

5. Killed by Theon

I feel very ambivalent on this one and most of my reluctance comes from not trusting GRRM's writing abilities to depict it in a way that I find compelling. I love revenge stories, but I rarely like their endings. I love revenge stories, I just rarely like the way they end. "When you go on a journey for revenge you dig two graves instead of one" Sometimes. Sometimes you also dig just one grave but have to spend the rest of your day laying next to the corpse of your never-ending anger and rage. I don't enjoy it a lot when achieving justice or revenge is portrayed in a purely happy light. It doesn't erase everything that has ever happened, it makes you feel unhappy because you know that no suffering inflicted on your abuser could possibly be enough to fulfil the void inside you. It isn't something, it is devastating. Good, now Theon killed him, he is gone, he will never hurt him again, now what? Now what? Is that supposed to be liberating? He is still perpetually changed and now he doesn't even have a target for all that pent-up rage and frustration to be directed at and (Can you tell I'm part of the minority that liked TLOU2 even more than TLOU? ), to me, the concept of adding Ramsay to the long lists of ghosts haunting Theon feels so harsh. I could enjoy it a lot!!! It's just that I doubt it would be written that way and the options mentioned above are more to my taste. I think that if Theon is the one that gets to kill Ramsay it will probably be portrayed in a more triumphant manner, maybe trying to convey Theon's complete rebirth and the deaths of Reek the Second (Ramsay) and Reek the Third (Theon at the Dreadfort) and, even though "Dead is dead. Better dead than Reek" is one of my favourite Theon moments ever, I don't really believe he should completely cast it aside.

"Reek, reek it rhymes with freak/weak/meek/etc." Sure! But also, were it not for Reek he'd probably not be alive. I don't know. I don't like the idea of him reappropriating that name like a minority would reappropriate a slur, but I don't think he should fully reject it either. In a sense, I believe the Reek persona allowed him to find some strange type of mental freedom in regards to "Theon" as a political pawn. Many of the conflicts he had to deal with during ACOK involving his cultural duality and his political standing disappear once he is conditioned into Reek (granted not in a healthy way) and I think that allowed him to develop into his own self more. I don't know If what I'm saying makes any sense. Not a favourite, but still something I could like. Personally, I would like it more if their last conversation was something completely mundane since I think that is very insulting to Ramsay, but it could be cool to have a final scene of them interacting in which Theon openly defies him and Ramsay is perplexed by realising he has been beaten by a creature "lower than a worm in human skin." Ramsay probably hasn't read his Shakespeare, GRRM has. Even a worm will turn.

Here, is the idea someone wrote for a scene emulating the confrontation between a slasher and the final girl and it was fun to read it.

6. Killed by Theon & Jeyne

I dislike it for similar reasons as to why I dislike Theon killing him, and I really don't like the idea of Jeyne being part of it, but I think there would be a lot of value in abuse victims coming together against their abuser and perhaps it would make their bond even stronger which would always be a perk to me because they are the relationship I care about the most in here and I just want them to be a supportive presence in each other's life. As said, I just like the idea of Theon/Jeyne never having to see Ramsay again. I think that is a slight to Ramsay.

7. Public execution by a Stark or a Stark loyalist

Depending on the Starkling doing the execution we could get a glimpse of affection for Theon and Jeyne, which I wouldn't like. Mostly because of personal issues with how the "friendships" between Theon-Jeyne and their respective Stark BFFs are something I interpret very differently to the fandom's common perception.

I also really want Theon to liberate himself from the "The Starks™ were your true family" motto, and the narrative portraying them through a purely heroic and victorious light would annoy me (I like all of the Stark kids as individuals, I just don't like the Starks™). Especially in Ramsay's case, I think it could easily be interpreted as the Starks™ being Theon & Jeyne's saviours.

I do understand how Ramsay, as part of House Bolton and the current Lord of Winterfell, isn't a villain designated to be solely attached to Theon & Jeyne. Politically he and Roose are the Starks' biggest opponents and threats, so I would understand it if GRRM still chooses to take this route (preferably through Jon or Arya) and could hopefully still find some enjoyment in it.

Something I think could be interesting but, similarly to the Daenerys example, is very far-fetched from actually happening, is if one of Lady Stoneheart's companions would be the one. Maybe Harwin. It could mix well with my favourite possibility.

8. Killed by supernatural force

My personal exception would maybe be one involving Bran. Out of the Starks and semi-Starks (Catelyn, Jon), his and Theon's relationship is the one I find the most interesting and it could be very emotional to see this little boy who was a victim of Theon's actions during ACOK be the one to smite Theon's tormentor. Years ago I saw this art depicting Bran and the Children of the forest warging into Ramsay's dogs and killing him while defending Theon & Jeyne and I still like the idea. The only real thing that would bother me in Ramsay dying at the hands of a supernatural force is that it acts as an opposite to my favourite option. If he is killed by someone inhumanely powerful, what does that say about him and his strength? Does that mean Theon's view of him as an all-seeing, all-hearing, all-knowing entity is not based on his own fear? Is Ramsay really such a monster he can only be brought down by another monster?

9. Killed by Jeyne

This one seems to be a fairly popular option, especially loved by Sansa fans and I understand why. There is a surprisingly big amour of art and memes and I can see the appeal but to me, it would feel very tragic which is why I like it the least. Jeyne is a character who has suffered so much while having very little involvement in the events that lead to that suffering. We only have limited information on Jeyne as a person and her role in the narrative is that of a vessel for other people's feelings (which is alright, we need secondary characters) and considering how she has been canonically appalled and repulsed by violence even before she was subjected to horrible acts of violence (being frantic about the Hound killing Mycah, having a meltdown at the tourney, being extremely distressed by the massacre at King's Landing), it would be very sad to witness her becoming a perpetrator of violence even if it would be justified. To me, it would feel like she has lost another part of herself to the trauma inflicted upon her by Ramsay. She has bled too much, I don't want her to have to stain herself in other's blood either.

I have come across other theories, but those are the ones (that I can group) that feel the most plausible to me. Roose or Mance killing Ramsay still deserve mentions of honour, but I don't have too many feelings about those. With Mance it could help bring Wildling and Northerners together and if it were Roose that would probably mean that Walda is withchild and that the Northern plot line might take longer than we all thought it would.

I don't fully oppose any of these options though! And I think there could be narrative value to all of them. As said, these are just personal opinions.

Anyway, I'm gonna go listen to Bob Dylan's Masters of War and mentally envision an amv feat. Theon and Catelyn.

#And I hope that you die #And your death will come soon #I'll follow your casket #By the pale afternoon #And I'll watch while you're lowered #Down to your deathbed #And I'll stand over your grave #'Til I'm sure that you're dead #asoiaf #hopefully #twow #ramsay snow #I'm never tagging him as a Bolton I don't respect his chosen pronouns and I don't know if I should tag the other characters #Anyway I have two options now #either I throw whatever remains of my pseudo anonymity out of the fucking window and then feel stupid because oh the shame #BUT I can laugh about it! and that is funny. I like laughing about my pretentiousness #or I leave it on the #drafts #and keep my thoughts to myself which is what I usually do #ramsay is interesting and as much as I know he's probably going to be played as a cartoon villain who is evil for the lols I don't regret #the marxist readings of him as ridiculous as they sound #Si no publico esto por lo menos tengo que mandárselo a Tânia asi que #recordar #si alguna vez vuelvo a ao3 no debería ser con fanfics de este tipo

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hungrydolphin91 · 10 months

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@magicmetslogic well since you asked so nicely ^^ I have to warn you though, it's mostly just a messy outline:

Tales of Vesperia and Evasive Language:

A while back I was feeling nostalgic and started watching an old stream archive of Vesperia Definitive Edition from back when that came out out, and I noticed how the three guys playing it for the first time didn’t always understand what was happening in a scene until halfway through it because the characters were speaking evasively. The more I noticed it, the more I realized just how often Vesperia in particular uses this type of language to add drama and depth to the story and characters, and even support the game’s themes of justice in regards to compliance versus disobedience. Specifically, that evasive language is used in this game to get around laws, for better or for worse, and even by characters that are otherwise lawful (looking at you, Flynn).

I’m not talking about lying or deceptive language, but more of a roundabout, masked language. The characters in this game tell half-truths or speak about a subject without ever saying directly what they mean, but leave enough context for the others to figure it out. Sometimes the "others" refers to other characters, but it can also mean only the audience, creating drama and foreshadowing. For example, lines like Yuri’s ominous “He will get what he deserves” in Capua Torim after Cumore escapes or Judith promise “I will uphold the guild’s laws. But in my own way,” are not lies, but they’re certainly dodging the character’s true intentions– imagine if they had just said “I’m going to murder that guy” or “My reasons for destroying blastia are actually good, but society isn’t ready for that conversation yet.” These examples, though, are more like writing tools meant to be understood by only the audience to keep them curious rather than covertly communicating with another character. Most of the evasive language is used in a less meta context.

The characters most notable for using this language are Yuri and Judith as mentioned before, but also Flynn, Rita, and Raven. Conversations between these characters often require a lot of reading between the lines, like Yuri and Flynn’s early arguments and Yuri and Judith’s one-on-one nighttime chats. The game even seems to encourage the player to look closely at their lines by calling out their evasive personalities, like Estelle saying several times that “Yuri isn’t very good at expressing his feelings” or Judith claiming she’s “not very good at lying” when they actually are, just in a more coded way.

Sometimes they speak this way to protect a secret, like Judith’s reasons for destroying blastia

Judith doesn’t REALLY lie, she just dodges targeted subjects. In a way she’s even more suspicious than Raven, but I think maybe her charisma helps keep the party (minus Yuri, who knows her background) from suspecting her to be up to something

Other times they talk like this to conceal their own feelings, like Yuri, Rita, and sometimes Flynn. Eg. Yuri’s “Catch up to him? Easy for him to say” or Rita’s tsundere-isms to hide that she just wants to travel more/be with Estelle

And of course there’s Raven, hiding his assigned agenda with evasive language but usually doing such a poor job of it that every party member finds him suspicious as hell. Once he’s actually in the party he straight up lies convincingly rather than beating around the bush

(Though part of his successful deception may rely on him being SO suspicious that he couldn't ACTUALLY be as sus as he seems 😅)

But the most prominent example of evasive language being used to advance the themes of the story is the frequent fluctuation between following the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law, used as both constraints and loopholes, by parties under both the Empire and the Guilds. (Eg. Flynn's 'If I don't return you'll have to take my place' vs. Karol's 'everyone in the guild should be punished because technically we're all kinda responsible' etc.)

The streamers and I both were relishing that scene in Capua Nor where Yuri’s party agrees to break the law and sneak into Ragou’s manor in order to give Flynn’s unit the authority to enter under emergency protocol because all of this is established in evasive language-- no one is admitting to the plan verbally but it's established anyway via loopholes and coincidences. It’s definitely illegal by Imperial law, the Knights shouldn’t be collaborating with a known criminal in order to achieve their ends, but since their enemy (also under the Empire) has twisted the laws to suit him perfectly, they all have to bend the rules a little to enforce justice. This ties in marvelously with the themes of the game, that sometimes in order to stop corruption you have to resort to some underhanded methods yourself, yet also exemplifies how this corruption happens in the first place, with Ragou only being able to run his wicked schemes because he has the authority to go above the law.

The guilds actually operate under the same principles as the Empire, maybe even more so. A guild’s laws are its pride, as karol says, and this is shown to be true with how the Don was executed because “eye for an eye” is ingrained in guild law. But shortly after Brave Vesperia is formed, they’re already looking for loopholes to do things like take on more than one job. The scene at the Atherum employs more of that evasive language, this time with Rita deciding to deliver the clear ciel crystal for Estelle’s sake since the guild can’t take another job.

It’s just interesting to me how quickly they’ve all started finding loopholes to their own rules even though creating their own guild outside of the Empire's laws was so important to them. What they’re doing isn’t wrong or underhanded, but it is illegal, and thus they resort to hypothetical suggestions and coincidences.

#tales of vesperia #someday I'll come back to this with better screenshots and evidence 😅#im not sure this is even going anywhere as much as it is just observations on something i think is neat #but i think it could be at least tangentally related to the game's themes of justice and whether the law can effectively protect its people

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