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bluerosefox · 8 months

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Assassin Heir? Crime Fighting Furry? NOPE NO THANK YOU!

"Danyal, its time to end this game and return with me."

Danny should had known Clockwork had something in mind when he sent him on this mission. He knew he should had been suspicious of the time keeper when he noticed the little 'this is going to be fun' smile on his face when he sent Danny off into the portal.

"Get back here you demon spawn 2.0!"

But how was he supposed to know that he'd wake up in this world version of himself in a pit full of corrupted (AND NASTY) ectoplasim at the tender age of five or that when he swam up to the surface he'd be meeting face to face with what was apparently a cult.

"-O just spotted him a block away! I'll try to cut itty bitty bridie off!"

An Assassins Cult his, new to him, loving yet a little insane mother was in charge of (though during the few months he stayed in the compound he heard rumors and gossip from maids and others alike that if his grandfather returned from the dead he'll take over once again, no doubt punish Talia for creating another heir after the failure of the last one, most likely was going to kill Danny and that... that was can of worms Danny didn't wanna deal with yet)

"Ten bucks says they try to stab RR when we get the feral thing home"

"...Losers bet...."

Danny had lived with his mother for a while after being brought back from the 'dead' for apparently the first time, it turned out training a five year old with an actual sword and a dumbass hidden revenge seeking teacher was a terrible idea.

"I swear if this one tries to murder me like the others I'm asking Zatanna if there is a curse on me."

He dealt with her high demands of perfection, the endless training, and the constant comparisons to his apparent older brother Damain... Who didn't know Danny, or rather Danyal existed.

Nor did his father (when Danny, using his powers he's kept hidden since 'waking' up in this Realm, he sneaked his way around the base and discovered how he came into the world. And tbh he couldn't blame his mom how she made him, she was an assassin first and foremost, being naturally pregnant would had painted a target on her for to long... but he also felt it was unfair and an asshole move on his unsuspecting father as well)

"As your elder brother I demand you to stop running!"

Now don't get him wrong, he did like his new mother (total badass assassin lady and all that) and he knew she loved him in her own... deadly way. But yeah, she really shouldn't be taking care of kids. He could tell she struggled with wanting to be a normal mother but her first instinct after so many years was to be an assassin first.

Something she was trying to engrave into Danny with as well.

"Ah, hello Beloved. I see you've learned of our Danyal."

"Talia. Back away from him and leave Gotham now."

"I can not do that. The League needs an heir and since Damian refuses to return... I have decided to create a new one and I shall not be leaving until he returns with me."

"Talia."

Hence why when Danny, or rather Danyal al Ghul had gotten decent control over his powers he decided to leave the League. Again nothing wrong with the life his mom leads, to each their own, but he... really, really didnt want to be an assassin. Or an assassin heir.

So here he was, after almost a year on the run, using his powers and training to out smart and out maneuver his mother and her many band of Assassins, in Gotham. One of the last places he ever wanted to run to cause he knew his father and brother lived here.

It was just his luck that his mother had managed to intercept his train ride that passed into Gotham for a few hours and forced him to run into the city...

Add her assassins into the mix and running into Robin, who heard from Oracle his mother had been spotted chasing a young boy across the city, that same night.

After that it became a full on "catch me if you can" chase for not only his mother but for the batclan as well.

And after two whole days of chase, it seemed like the final showdown was about to begin because everyone was on top of this rooftop, his mother and her assassins on one side, his father and the batclan on the other and Danny well... he was right in the middle of all of it.

He just had to hope no one would notice him once the fighting started...

#danny phantom #danny fenton #dp x dc #blue rambles #crossover #writing ideas #random idea #danny phantom dc #basicly Danny is sent on a mission by CW #he wakes up in the DC version of himself in the pits after being killed and Talia tossing him in #he was created by Talia since shes head of the LOA now and needs her own heir #but she once again wants Bruce's bloodline in it so she used some leftover dna she still had #so no one knows Danny was created until he left about a year later #danny has his ghost powers since he took a dip in the pits #but had to relearn some control and kept it secret #he knows his mom would see it as 'the pits granted my heir its powers.' mindset #so hes been on the run #and didnt wanna go to Gotham cause... his dad dresses as a gaint bat #and dont get him started on the rest of the batfam #he doesnt wanna be an assassin or a crime fighting furry #in case some people didnt get it. the words being spoken happen when Danny is running all across Gotham away from those after him #guess who said what lol #i want danny to be completely independent and trying to take care of himself tbh #but hes still baby to everyone else #talia is slowy becoming a little unhinged due to being the Demon Head now #maybe due to the stress of it all? or maybe due to a curse? idk

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ectonurites · 3 years

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so Jason just... Dug himself out of the ground... No explanation...? No Lazarus pit...? Cant use the excuse he came out wrong anymore then

OK. gonna. break this down. this gets kinda ranty! sorry! this is also talking specifically about how things are presented in canon before the New 52, just to clarify

"so Jason just... Dug himself out of the ground... No explanation...?"

So yes he dug himself out of the ground but there is an explanation, it's just a bit complicated if you're not super in-tune with what was happening in the DC Universe around 2005-2006, because comic books are (for better or worse) interconnected in complicated ways.

That's why the movie version changed his resurrection to just a Lazarus Pit, because trying to explain that "Superboy-Prime punched a hole in reality that sent ripples of change across the universe 'righting wrongs' such as Jason's death" to a person who turns on a movie with no prior comic book context is just not going to go well.

But that is what happened. The comic arc about Jason's return as Red Hood* happens partially overlapped with Infinite Crisis, the big continuity-altering event happening at the time in the DCU with Superboy-Prime.

*(These days we generally call the whole thing 'Under the Red Hood' due to the movie and the more recent trade, but the first collected edition of it called the storyline 'Under the Hood'. As originally printed in the Batman comic the storyline is made up of smaller sections: Under the Hood in Batman #635-638, Family Reunion in Batman #639-641, Show me Yesterday, For I Can't Find Today in Batman #645, Franchise in Batman #646-647, All They Do Is Watch Us Kill in Batman #648-650, and an aftermath story to explain what happened with Jason; Daedalus and Icarus: The Return of Jason Todd in Batman Annual #25)

Superboy-Prime literally punched reality and that's what caused Jason to suddenly wake up alive in his coffin.

(Batman (1940) Annual #25)

So yeah! There is an explanation: That glowy continuity-altering energy made him wake up in his coffin, and he then dug himself out.

"No Lazarus pit...?"

Yes Lazarus pit, just after. The pit was still involved, but it wasn't the thing that resurrected him.

The complicated thing about the 'Superboy-Prime punch' method of resurrection is that it's more of a... restoration. This energy essentially returned him to his previous state he'd have been in if he hadn't died... so he became alive again but retained basically all the injuries that had killed him, they just didn't actually kill him now. So after he climbed out of his grave he fell into a coma pretty quickly

(Batman (1940) Annual #25)

He stays in the coma for about a year, then wakes up but is still in a catatonic state working just off of muscle memory because of the damage from all his injuries. According to the original way it's presented to us (Batman Annual #25 and Red Hood: Lost Days have a few very minor differences in how they distribute time when explaining this period of his life, but I'm gonna stick with the Annual's timeline since I'm mostly talking about the UtRH story as initially written) Jason lives on the streets of Gotham for approximately a year this way before Talia Al Ghul finds out about him being alive and takes him in.

He then spends another year in this catatonic state while under the care of the League of Assassins as Talia tries to prove that he's worth keeping around. When Ra's decides that Talia is putting too much time and effort into this, he decides to send Jason away promising he will be cared for but wanting him to stop being her priority. In a last ditch effort, Talia defies her father and pushes Jason into the Lazarus Pit, which then heals his mind

(Batman (1940) Annual #25)

So yeah, pit is still involved, but all it healed was his mind (and I mean it probably helped heal any lasting injuries that hadn't healed well over the last few years for him too) rather than fully bringing him back from the dead

"Cant use the excuse he came out wrong anymore then"

I want to make this so entirely clear: that could basically never actually have been used as an excuse if you were trying to follow comics canon with him as it's presented. Yes, I do mean even with the pit still being involved. Jason Todd is the only person responsible for his actions, not the Lazarus Pit.

I really blame the Under the Red Hood movie for pit madness misconceptions among the fandom with him, because of the line Jason says to Bruce:

"Oh, you got to talking to Ra's, huh? Does it make it easier for you to think that my little dip into his fountain of youth turned me rabid? Or is this just the real me?"

Because for a lot of fans yes, it is easier to believe the pit did that.

No conversation like that happens in the comic version, because during the events of the story itself we don't actually find out how Jason was resurrected or basically any of what happened with him between death and the current moment! It's all explained in Daedalus and Icarus: The Return of Jason Todd in Batman Annual #25 afterwards. (Also not to mention how Ra's had no real active role in it in the comics, the Lazarus Pit stuff was all Talia)

But even aside from that, the concept of Jason still dealing with pit madness (rather than just like, dealing with the trauma of knowing he was so far gone he had to be put in a pit to heal) like, close to if not a whole year after he went in the pit is... not how that is shown to work in canon. I know it can be a fun concept and like in fan content people can go wild and do whatever they want, but this is one of those fanon things that a lot of people don't realize is fanon because of just how common it is.

Now, i'll admit that comics and even specifically comics regarding Lazarus Pits aren't the most consistent with one another, but there are so many characters who have been dipped in a Lazarus Pit to heal things far more severe (for example: actual death) than Jason's situation (just healing his mind)... and neither Jason or them get depicted with longterm/semi-permanent pit madness the way fanon does it for Jason.

Cass for crying out loud is one example, she gets killed in Batgirl #72 and resurrected via a pit in #73, and based on her dialogue with Shiva is implied to overcome her pit madness during that one conversation. And even though she acted OOC as hell for a while afterwards (evil Cass arc my detested) it was later explained as brainwashing by Deathstroke, not pit madness.

I'm out of image space but I also just think about this page from Batman and Robin Vol. 1 #9 with Damian specifically saying that pit madness would have worn off in far less time than it takes to fly from England to Gotham. Like, this is a 'typically under a day if at all' type of phenomenon most places I'm aware of it being talked about in comics canon (i'm pretty sure... the arrowverse shows do a more long-lasting bloodlusty thing with it? i haven't watched any of those shows in so long but I feel like that was an element. maybe thats where some of these ideas come from too, but stuff in that universe does not apply to the comics unless specifically said to be incorporated).

It is true that it's mentioned/theorized pit madness like, lasts different amounts of time for different people (and also how many times they've been in the pit can play a role) so that's something to bear in mind... but like the only example I know of where one dip in the pit really altered someone in more permanent 'driving them mad' ways was with Nora Fries during Batgirl #69/70 bc she absorbed stuff from the pit. Within the story it's explained as because she'd been dead a longass time and frozen and experimented on etc etc by Mr. Freeze, making her an exception not the rule (and also from the second she steps out of the pit it's clear shit is off, vs in Jason's restoration he's talking normally almost immediately, they're very clearly different situations) Here's a list with some examples of canon pit use for consideration.

The thing that drove Jason to become Red Hood was his emotional state coping with the fact that he'd been murdered, feeling unavenged/like Bruce didn't care enough to avenge him, and reinvigorated feelings (that were semi-present even when he was Robin, and not just after retcons but at the actual time in the 80's too, that's basically the whole point of Batman #424) that Bruce's no-killing methods let too many innocent people fall through the cracks and get hurt. It's his trauma that drives him into 'going mad' and becoming the Red Hood, just chalking all of it up to vague 'pit madness' cheapens the whole thing. The pit can be an element, because knowing that you somehow came back to life but were so broken and unable to function that you had to be shoved in a magic hot tub to be able to have your brain back is all kinds of fucked up, but that's trauma from the situation itself not the magic effects of it.

And like... I know people also like the 'pit madness' reasoning to explain things like Battle for the Cowl, but... trying to take the blame away from Jason for his own actions weakens his character imo. I know there's a lot of bad and inconsistent writing, and it feels easier to just wipe them away with 'oh well it wasn't really his fault' but... Jason (particularly pre-reboot) is extremely unstable because of everything he lived and died through, it's trauma, blaming the pit for it when there's no real evidence that plays a significant role (beyond a line from a movie adaptation that heavily alters the story) just... will never make sense to me. It makes him as a character far less interesting.

#i wrote this very late last night and just woke up and remembered it oh dear #ok 'just woke up' is an exaggeration i wrote that tag as soon as i woke up then paused and revised this a little bit #there's definitely opinions in the last bit but the first half is more objective canon #sam explains

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thecreaturecodex · 3 years

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Nascent Demon Lord, Dalmosh

“Dalmosh” © Wizards of the Coast, by Izzy. Accessed at the Monster Manual V Art Gallery here

[Commissioned by @annotaremonstrorum, who wanted a version of Dalmosh from MMV as a nascent demon lord. Their ideas for developing Dalmosh’s cult were very good, and incorporated fully into this entry. The original was a CR 17 with more than 400 hit points and an AC of 13. It felt like a very purposeful experiment with tweaking the hp/CR ratio, and I wonder how it actually worked in play. My guess is not great. I also gave him the dispelling slam ability so he could have at least a chance to pull his signature swallow whole on a high level character.]

Nascent Demon Lord, Dalmosh CR 21 CE Outsider (extraplanar) This massive fleshy creature appears as a boneless parody of the human form. Its legs are columns of swaying meat, its arms overlong with swollen fists, its head conical and asymmetric. It has a gaping maw with blunt teeth, and covering its bodies are sealed fissures disturbingly similar to both sutures and jaws.

Dalmosh The Eternal Hunger, The Walking Mountain Concerns hunger, destructive gluttony, living demiplanes Domains Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Strength Subdomains Catastrophe, Demon, Entropy, Ferocity Worshipers ogres, trolls, creatures trapped in the Gullet Minions dwiergeths, gibbering mouthers, piasa Unholy Symbol a closed fist with a mouth on its back Obedience eat another creature alive. Gain a +4 profane bonus on CMD to avoid being grappled Boons 1: bear’s endurance 2/day; 2: divine power 2/day; 3: extended hungry pit 2/day

Dalmosh the Eternal Hunger is a walking mountain of meat and teeth. His home is the Flesh Mountains, a range of Abyssal terrain spanning several layers that is itself faintly alive. Dalmosh wanders through these mountains, consuming all in his path and chewing himself a cave to hide in whenever he tires enough to rest. Almost everything is food to Dalmosh—animal, vegetable, mineral—although he seems to find unworked earth distasteful. Dalmosh is dull, brutal, and indiscriminately destructive, and he leaves sweeping arcs of ruin in his wake.

In combat, Dalmosh is simple and uncreative. He attacks whatever he can reach, attempting to swallow it whole. Creatures that elude his reach may be pelted with thrown debris, but after a few rounds he will ignore them in search of easier prey. When struck, Dalmosh’s skin opens up into a set of temporary, but still deadly, jaws. His surface is covered in the scar tissue of previous such openings. Dalmosh has a keen sense of smell, and can be distracted by particularly aromatic morsels.

Any inanimate objects Dalmosh consumes, as well as creatures lucky or clever to fight their way there, are transported to the Gullet, a sprawling demiplane in the shape of a fleshy labyrinth. Gusts of foul wind, pools of acid and occasional meatquakes are terrain hazards here, but there are creatures that make a living in the Gullet. These are swallowed victims who either couldn’t escape through planar travel or simply chose not to, and there are even permanent settlements built in this moist, organic refuge. The largest of these is called Garnamastra, and it is ruled by a rakshasa calling himself the Eyeless Tyrant. It is said that the treasures of ancient realms and slain heroes are scattered throughout the Gullet, and some foolhardy adventurers have allowed Dalmosh to swallow them in order to go treasure hunting.

Despite his dim intellect and utter indifference to worship, Dalmosh has managed to gather enough of a cult following to empower him as a nascent demon lord. The dwiergeths consider him their progenitor, and some pipe a quick prayer to Dalmosh whenever they consume a particularly scrumptious morsel. Ogres, trolls and other evil giants view him as something of a figure to idolize and emulate, although they also view him as a bogeyman to scare their children with. Some particularly evil and crazy spellcasters see Dalmosh as an embodiement of planar paradoxes such as living planes and pocket dimensions, and use gate spells and offerings of rich food and unusual sacrifices to gain Dalmosh’s service as a living siege weapon.

Dalmosh CR 21 XP 409,600 CE Colossal outsider (chaos, demon, evil, extraplanar) Init +3; Senses darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision, Perception +24, scent Aura cloak of chaos (DC 24), frightful presence (300 ft., DC 29) Defense AC 36, touch 5, flat-footed 36 (-8 size, -1 Dex, +31 natural, +4 deflection) hp 455 (26d10+312) Fort +26, Ref +18, Will +25 DR 20/good and slashing; Immune charm and compulsion effects, death effects, disease, electricity, poison; Resist acid 30, cold 30, fire 30; SR 32 Defensive Abilities rejuvenation Offense Speed 50 ft. Melee 2 slams +34 (3d8+16 plus dispel), bite +34 (4d8+16 plus grab), secondary maws +32 (4d8+8 plus grab) Ranged debris +18 (2d8+16/19-20) Space 30 ft.; Reach 30 ft. (15 ft. with secondary maws) Special Attacks fast swallow, gluttonous frenzy, spawn maw, swallow whole (8d8+16 bludgeoning, AC 25, 45 hp) Spell-like Abilities CL 21st, concentration +27 Constant—cloak of chaos (DC 24) 3/day—greater teleport Statistics Str 42, Dex 9, Con 34, Int 4, Wis 23, Cha 22 Base Atk +26; CMB +50 (+52 bull rush, sunder; +54 grapple); CMD 63 (65 vs. bull rush, sunder) Feats Blind-fight, Cleave, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Improvised Weapon Mastery, Intimidating Prowess, Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack, Throw Anything Skills Acrobatics +15 (+23 when jumping), Climb +32, Intimidate +38, Perception +24, Survival +24, Swim +32 Languages Abyssal, telepathy 300 ft. SQ nascent demon lord traits, no breath Ecology Environment any land (Abyss) Organization unique Treasure none Special Abilities Dispelling Slam (Su) A creature or object struck by Dalmosh’s slam attack is subject to a targeted greater dispel magic effect (CL 21st). Gluttonous Frenzy (Ex) As a full round action once per minute, Dalmosh can move up to his speed and make a bite attack against every creature he can reach along his movement. Nascent Demon Lord Traits (Ex/Su) Dalmosh is a powerful unique fiend with the following traits:

Immune to charm and compulsion effects, death effects, electricity, poison

Resist acid, cold and fire 30

Telepathy 300 ft.

Dalmosh’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons he wields, are treated as chaotic, epic and evil for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

Dalmosh can grant spells and boons to worshipers as described in his cult entry above

Rejuvenation (Su) If Dalmosh is killed, he crumbles into rot and is reborn in the Flesh Mountains 2 days later. Dalmosh can only use this ability once per year; if slain again in that time, he is permanently killed. Spawn Maw (Su) Whenever Dalmosh takes 20 or more points of damage in a single attack, he can create a set of jaws as an immediate action from the wound. These jaws attack as secondary natural weapons and have a reach of 15 feet. If the creature that dealt that damage is within 15 feet, Dalmosh may make a secondary bite attack agains that opponent as part of the same action. Secondary maws created in this way remain for 1 hour. Swallow Whole (Ex/Su) A creature swallowed whole by Dalmosh can make its way to the Gullet with a successful DC 26 Escape Artist check or by dealing 20 points of damage while swallowed. A creature that travels to the Gullet in this way is deposited in that demiplane without further injury. If Dalmosh is subject to a dimensional anchor spell or a similar effect, this option is not available. If a swallowed creature cuts its way out of Dalmosh, Dalmosh can still use swallow whole immediately thereafter without penalty.

#dalmosh #demon lord #demon #pathfinder 1e #D&D #commissions

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stxleslyds · 3 years

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I didn't realize how often I thought about this fandom until I started churning out asks on a daily basis.

Knowing DC's creative trends/talent in 1988/89, what do you think would have happened if fans voted for Jason's survival? From released alternative comic pages, Jason still gets blown up but survives.

Do you think they had a plan for him to become Hush (like the Death in the Family interactive "movie" implies)? Would he get a personality change through amnesia? Or would the comics have retired him to fade into obscurity?

WHAT IF…? BUT JASON TODD SURVIVES.

Hi friend! Thank you for the ask! This should be interesting.

But before I give my answer, let’s take a look at those pages where Jason had actually survived Joker’s attack.

From the second page we only can see one panel but some who have seen the entire, unreleased, page have said this about it:

“The full page reveals more, including the arrival of Dick Grayson to Jason’s hospital room, although a pencilled note in the margins says to strike him, and redraw the panels in favour of having Alfred in the scene instead. Dick rushed over as soon as he heard, and offered Bruce his help in tracking down the Joker.

In the published version of Batman #428, the same page depicts Jason’s funeral, where Alfred asks Bruce if he should get in touch with Dick Grayson. In both pages, Batman says roughly the same thing: “I’ll handle this by myself. No help from now on... that’s the way I want it.””

This makes me feel like Jason having survived or not the Joker’s attack would have resulted in the same outcome within Bruce. Dick shows up at the hospital to check on Jason and offers his help in tracking Joker to Bruce but Bruce doesn’t want his help because from that moment on “he works alone”.

That would lead to the same exact actions that happened with Jason dead. Bruce goes after Joker on his own and leaves up to fate if he dies or not (although he said that his issues with Joker never truly end, Batman (1940) #429),

And if Bruce pushes Dick away then we could also be having a scene like the one from The New Titans (1988) #55, where Bruce implies that Jason getting hurt was Dick’s fault for having moved on from Robin himself. If that happens then Dick would blame Bruce for putting Jason in danger way too soon and their fight will end up with Bruce kicking Dick out of the manor.

So, to answer your question, what would have happened if fans voted for Jason’s survival?

I think that DC would have turned Jason into another reason why Bruce thinks that all he could ever be is Batman. It would have made Bruce dark, moody and sad just like DC wanted, all darkness and no light.

Jason wouldn’t be dead but he wouldn’t be truly alive and they would use that to fuel the angst that surrounds Batman.

It is a very sad thing, but I actually think that Jason surviving the attack wouldn’t have had any impact on his own story, Jason’s suffering/death were set up to make Batman want to work alone again. I just don’t see DC back in the day working on Jason’s recovery (physical and mental), I see them leaving Jason comatose and as a reminder of one of Batman’s “failures”. Maybe in a distant future Jason could have woken up with amnesia and they could have done something with him then but I really don’t know how they could make that story work or if Jason would end up working as an ally or enemy of Batman.

Much like you said in the ask, I think that DC would have let the character of Jason Todd fade away,

Because that is a really sad answer, I decided to come up with other scenarios where I would give ideas of what I would have liked to see DC do, and what I would have done if I had existed back in the day!

What I would have liked to see DC do:

After setting the fact that Jason was left in a coma at the hospital after Joker’s attack, I think DC should have had Bruce making some extreme decisions. With Jason alive but not really there I think that DC could have made work a plot point that they tried to pull off with Jason dead.

In a comic event called ‘Underworld Unleashed’ the demon Neron offered bringing Jason back to life if Bruce gave him his soul in exchange. But with Jason alive I think that Bruce would have actually been even more tempted to take the offer if it meant that by giving his soul away, he could wake Jason up from the coma he was in. Then there could have been an event with magic users that made it possible so Bruce got his soul back or something. DC could have also had Jason have amnesia after Neron wakes him up so we would have a soulless Batman and amnesiac Jason trying to make their father/son relationship work (or not).

Another idea is Bruce making a different extreme decision where he asks Talia to help him find a Lazarus Pit to try his luck with Jason. Because Jason was in a coma and not dead the Pit would have actually worked (the Lazarus Pit cannot bring people back from the dead!). I imagine that if it worked then Bruce would owe Talia or Ra’s a favour, and that could make an interesting story, mostly if Jason Todd ends up mad at Bruce because he didn’t kill the Joker after he tried to kill him. (I do love chaos).

Maybe Jason could even join the LoA to make Bruce’s life difficult. He wouldn’t become the Red Hood but Jason becoming an assassin after all that could have been the perfect recipe for complete chaos and I love that. I think DC could make it work, this last part of the idea is kinda inspired by Young Justice's Jason Todd.

What I would have done if I wrote for DC at the time:

I would have taken Jason away from Bruce! I would have Dick appear out of nowhere and I would have him take Jason with him back to the Titans Tower so they can both be far away from Bruce (at least for a little while).

If this idea sounds familiar it might be because you read another “What if…?” post that I made about what I thought would happen if Jason hadn’t been found by Batman that night when Jason was stealing the Batmobile’s tires. I will link that post here!

This time Dick would obviously be taking Jason with him at a different time and he would actually try to train Jason a little bit more but Dick would also have Jason work on his trauma and then Jason would decide to leave the vigilante/hero life behind. But not completely because I still believe that Jason would still want to save people. He would also be very protective of his brother/best friend Dick Grayson, also known as Nightwing.

I just think that Dick could have handled the situation a lot better than Bruce, he would have made sure that Jason felt like him not being Robin anymore wasn’t because he was a failure but because he can help people in other ways. He would have made him go to therapy and would have been more willing to share his own experiences with him.

I would have Jason studying to become a paramedic again (a different kind of hero) and this time he could also practice on the Titans when they got hurt in battle, if he did that then he could end up being an excellent medic for all superheroes!

I mean, in the Titans there are humans, aliens, metas, amazons and atlanteans. Jason could actually become DC’s very own version of Marvel’s ‘Night Nurse’. I don’t know, I love that idea and I think @hood-ex would like it too!

I just love the idea of Jason and Dick becoming each other's family. The Titans would also become Jason's family but he would be very protective of Dick. I just feel like Jason would have seen the whole thing (of Dick taking him to live together) as a fresh start after such a horrible experience.

I love Red Hood but I also love the idea of Jason becoming something completely different from that and this is one of my favourite ideas!

Oh! Before I forget, I think that the idea of Jason becoming Hush in the ‘Death in the Family’ movie comes directly from the fact that Jason “was” Hush for a second in the Batman: Hush comic. That was revealed to us in UtRH, Jason gave the real Hush all the information that he needed to get under Batman’s skin. And then when “Hush” captured Tim and he showed his face that was actually Jason who then changed places with Clayface to confuse Bruce more.

So, yeah, I don’t think DC had planned on making Jason become Hush.

Thank you so much for the ask! I hope the answer was good and that you have a fantastic week!

#jason todd #robin jason todd #dick grayson #nightwing #titans #tati thinks out loud #dc comics #tati loves aus #asksss

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davidmann95 · 3 years

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How about those JL storyboards?

In case you haven’t heard, Zack Snyder is putting on display the ‘storyboards’ - i.e. a rough plot summary accompanied by some Jim Lee sketches - for what would have been Justice League 2 and 3, or as this puts it 2 and ‘2A’. You can see them here (I imagine better-quality versions will soon be released), and read a transcript here. This is evidently a very early version: this was apparently pitched prior to the release of BvS and Justice League being rewritten in the wake of it, with numerous plot details that now don’t line up with what we know about the Snyder Cut, plus it outright mentions it builds on the originally planned versions of the Batman and Flash movies. But it’s a broad outline of what was gonna go down, and while I initially thought it was Snyder throwing in the towel, the timing - paired with the ambiguity left by the necessity for changes, including that this doesn’t factor whatever that “massive cliffhanger” at the end of the Cut is - says to me he’s hoping this’ll be a force multiplier behind efforts to will sequel/s into existence. He’s probably right.

I’ll be discussing spoilers below, but in short: with this Zack Snyder has finally lived up to Alan Moore, in that like Twilight of the Superheroes I wouldn’t believe this was real as opposed to a shockingly on-point parody if not for direct, irrefutable evidence.

Doing some rapid-fire bullet points for this baby to kick us off:

* Folks who know the subject say a lot of this is a yet further continuation of Snyder doing Arthuriana fanfic with the League reskinned over those major players, and I’ll take their word for it.

* I don’t know whether I love or hate that in Justice League 2 the Justice League are only an extant thing for the first scene, and then it’s Snyder giving everybody their own mini-movies. It’s compressing the entire MCU “loosely interconnected solo stories leading to a single big movie later” strategy into a single movie!

* Funniest line in the whole thing: "Even Lantern has heard of the Kryptonian, worried that he's under the control of Darkseid. He heard his spirit was unbreakable." Hal what fuckin' Superman movie did YOU watch? Second funniest being “IT WILL GIVE HIM POWER OVER ALL LIVING LIFE”

* 90% of the plot I have nothing to say about, it’s generic stage-setting crap. That to be clear is the ‘shocked it’s Snyder’ element, it feels so crassly commercial in a way I can’t believe is coming from the BvS guy.

* Most of what I have to say is unsurprisingly gonna be about a handful of characters but Cyborg’s happy ending being “he isn’t visibly disabled anymore!” is not great!

* The Goddess of War battle with Superman...never pays off? No clue why it’s there.

* What I’d originally heard was that the Codex in Superman’s blood was the last key to the Anti-Life Equation and that’s why Darkseid was coming to Earth. It’s not like all of this wouldn’t have already been averted by Kal-El’s pod smacking into an asteroid on the way to Earth so it’s not as if this makes it any more Superman’s fault, and it would have at least tied all this back to the beginning of the movies, but I suppose that was either fake or from a later draft.

* I have NO idea how this was reimagined without the ‘love triangle’, it’s the central character thing and the entire climax flows directly out of it!

* Darkseid’s kinda a chump in this, huh

Anonymous said: So: Does Zack Snyder hate Superman?

Look: the hilarity of this when Cuck Kent has been a go-to Snyder cult insult towards ‘inferior’ takes on Superman for years cannot be understated, yet at the same time I can almost wrap my brain around where Snyder’s coming from with that as the end for his take on the character. He talked in that Variety piece on how his interest in Superman is informed by having adopted children himself, and Deborah Snyder is the stepmother to his kids by previous relationships, so I can see where he’d be coming from, and I can even imagine how he’d see this as ‘rhyming’ in the sense of “the series begins with Kal-El being adopted by Earth, it ends with him adopting a child of Earth!” In the same way as MARTHA, I can envision how he would put these pieces together in his head thematically without registering or caring what the end result would actually look like. In this case, Superman raising the kid of the man who beat the shit out of him who Batman had with Clark’s wife, who earlier told Bruce she was staying with Clark because he ‘needed her’, suggesting if inadvertently that this really honest to god was a “she’s only staying with Superman out of pity, she really loved Batman more” thing.

But Clark is nothing in this. He’s sad and existential because of coming back from the dead I guess, then he’s corrupted, then time’s undone and he woo-rah rallies the collective armies of the world (interesting angle for the ‘anti-military/anti-establishment’ Superman he’s talked up as) as his big heroic moment in the finale, and then he stops being sad because he’s adopting a kid. So his big much-ballyhooed, extremely necessary five-movie character arc towards truly becoming Superman was:

Sad weird kid -> sad weird kid learns he’s an alien, is still weird and sad, maybe he shouldn’t save people because things could go really wrong? -> his dad is so convinced it could go wrong he lets himself die -> ????? -> Clark is saving people anyway -> learns his origin, gets an inspiring speech about being a bridge between worlds and a costume -> becomes superman (not Superman, that’s later) to save the world, albeit a very property-damagey version, rejects his heritage he just learned about and space dad’s bridge idea -> folks hate him being superman and that sucks though at least he’s got a girlfriend now -> things go so wrong he considers not being superman but his ghost dad reminds him shit always goes wrong so he should be good anyway, which sorta feels like it contradicts his previous advice -> immediate renewed goodness is out the window as he’s blackmailed into having to try and kill a dude but the dude happens to coincidentally have some things in common so they don’t kill each other after all -> big monster now but superman keeps supermaning at it because he loves his girlfriend and he dies -> he’s brought back, wears black which apparently means now he likes Krypton again? -> he has work friends now but he’s still sad because he was dead -> evil now! -> wait nevermind time travel -> rallies the troops -> his wife’s having a kid so he’s not sad anymore -> Superman! Who gives way to more Batman.

Do I think Zack Snyder is lying when he says he likes Superman? No. I think he sincerely finds much of the basic conceits and imagery engaging. But I don’t think he meaningfully gives shit about Clark as a character, just a vessel for Big Iconic Beats he wants to hit. Whereas while for instance he’s critical of Batman as an idea (at least up to a point), he’s much more passionately, directly enamored with him as a presence and personality. So while Superman may be the character whose ostensible myth cycle or arc or however it’s spun might be propelling a lot of events here, it’s a distant appreciation - of course the other guy takes over and subsumes him into his own narrative. Of course Batman is the savior, the past and the future (though if he’s supposed to be Batman’s kid raised by Superman there’s no excuse for him not to be Nightwing), the tragic martyr to our potential. Admittedly the implication here is also that Batman can apparently only REALLY with his whole heart be willing to sacrifice his life to save an innocent, for that matter apparently his great love, once said innocent is a receptacle for his Bat-brood, but he and Clark are both already irredeemable pieces of shit by the end of BvS so it’s not like this even registers by comparison.

Anonymous said: That “plan” Snyder had was utter dogshit. Picture proof that DC & WB hate Superman. Also I love how you’re like Jor-El: Every single idealistic take you had about Snyder, his fandom, and BvS was wrong. Snyder’s an edgy hack, his fanbase just wants to jerk off to their edgy self-insert Batgod as he screams FUCK while mowing people down with machine guns, and the idea that BvS said Superman was better than Bats was completely wrong. You know what comes next SuperMann: Either you die or I do.

In the final analysis, beyond that mother of god is there sure no conceivable excuse for the treatment of Lois in this? The temptation is to join that anon and say as I originally tweeted that these were “built entirely to disabuse every single redemptive reading of the previous work and any notion of these movies as nuanced, artistic, self-reflective, or meaningful”.

...

...yeah, okay, that’s mostly right. Zack Snyder’s vision really was the vision of an edgelord idiot with bad ideas who was never going to build up to anything that would reframe it all as a sensible whole. He’s a sincere edgelord genuinely trying really hard with his bad ideas who put some of them together quite cleverly! But they’re fucking bad and the endgame was never anything more than ramping up into smashing the action figures together as big as he could, the political overtones and moral sketchiness of BvS while trying to say something in that movie reverberated through the grand scheme of his pentalogy in no way beyond giving his boys a big sad pit to rise out of so when they kicked ass later it’d rule harder, and all the gods among men questions and horror and trappings were only that: trappings. Apparently he’s really pleasant and well-meaning in person, but at his core his art as embodied in a couple weeks in his 4-hour R-rated Justice League movie meant to be seen in black-and-white all comes down to that time he yelled at someone on Twitter that he couldn’t appreciate Snyder’s work because it’s for grown-ups. He made half-clever, occasionally exciting shit cape movies for a bunch of corny pseudo-intellectual douchebags, folks latching onto and justifying blockbusters that at least acknowledge how horrifying the world is right now even if the superheroes are basically useless in the face of it if not outright part of the problem until a convenient alien invasion shows up to justify them, and a handful of non-asshole smart people who vibe with it but...well. ‘Suckered’ is a harsh word, and definitely doesn’t apply to all of them re: what they’ve gotten out of it up to this point and would (somehow) get out of this. But it doesn’t apply to none of them, either.

#Justice League #Zack Snyder #Superman #Batman #DCEU #Opinion

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