#grrm's elves
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realmente cree esa persona que los targs forzando a los reinos ancianos de westeros a aceptar el trono de hierro, quemando a los que se les resistieron con sus dragones no es el imperialismo porque *checks notes* esos reinos también se establecieron usando fuerza???? porque no impusieron su idioma???? o sí por supuesto cuando los españoles conquistaron a los azteca o a los inca in fact no fue imperialismo ni colonialismo porque eran imperios también y todavía hay gente que habla nahuatl y quechua so if you think about it realmente eran soberantes bien benevolentes uwu
Yeah that's their logic, they think we can't hate targies for being conquerors and at the same time love the Stark children, because House Stark ancestors, the First Men ("the conquerors"), more like 8000 years ago, were at war with the Children of the Forest ("the conquered"), then we are hypocrites, we need to judge the Stark children, the ones blessed by the Old Gods, the same way we judge targies, the ones that are so proud to be the blood of Old Valyria.
Their takes are so narrow that they didn't stop to think about how the war between the COTF and the First Men ended with a peace treaty, The Pact of the Isle of Faces.
They are very loud about targies not imposing their religion to Westeros, but they didn't mention the Doctrine of Exceptionalism and the "veiled threats" of parading dragons all over the seven Kingdoms.
They are very loud about targies not imposing their mother tongue to Westeros, but they forget to mention that people in Astapor speak High Valyrian with a growl of the old Ghiscari tongue, that people in Yukai speak a dialect of High Valyrian, different from Astapor's, but similar enough, and that people in Meereen speak a bastard form of High Valyrian, blended with Old Ghiscari.
And of course they will never talk about how the First Men, and much later The Starks, adopted the COTF religion, the Old Gods, and not the other way around.
But at leats they're funny, right? They provide free amusement. I will never get over them describing targs as "GRRM's elves." LMAO
#anon asks#about the love letters from my fans#targies gonna targ#asoiaf#grrm's elves#thanks for reminding me that at some poin my mind started to link francisco pizarro and aegon the conqueror for reasons
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gotta love how theres so many articles about how this new lotr show has female orcs!!! equality!! but still forces gendered looks on dwarfs and elves urdgjhgfdfgh
#for those unaware lady dwarfs are supposed to have beards but alas have none#male elves usually have long hair but the show keeps pushing fort short#but ayyy female orcs#also love how papers try to spin some sort of rivalry between this and got#even tho grrm has said theres none to be had
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headcanons about the incredibly fucked up little Allegory for the British Empire But With Dragons and Evil Gods (As Created by an Extremely British Guy) that i’ve been rotating constantly in my head for over half my life:
-their music is all about the Drone (including of course, ones made by people they’ve enslaved and surgically made into musical instruments. that’s the only musical instrument we know for sure that they have, by the way. as far as i can remember.)
-even though they have almost no taboos about killing or sexuality (i suspect they are homophobic and transphobic so there are significant exceptions) they DO have an incredibly strict taboo about poop. to the extent of writing propaganda medical books to convince the oppressed human underclass that their species doesn’t poop (which is slightly plausible because they’re descended from dragons and are much more different from humans biologically than they appear (ie they get slightly different illnesses and are affected differently by certain drugs). but nobody believes it and it’s a huge joke among the oppressed human underclass (it’s canon that the areas of Imrryr outside the palace are basically 100% immigrants. i wonder a lot about what their lives were like)
creationist voice: “if melniboneans evolved from dragons how come there’s still dragons”
#to put it in star trek terms i think they're most like the Romulans#D&D based its dark elves on these people#and grrm based the targaryens on them
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no like i will die on the hill that kui doesn't get enough praise. and it does kinda make me mad that people suck fujimoto's mid cock so bad for a manga that's one step removed from being a harem manga, when conversations of dungeon meshi largely only revolve around the characters and not about kui herself and what she created.
i am honest to fucking god serious when i say that she is up there with tolkien and grrm in her worldbuilding ability. i am serious when i say this is a once in a generation kind of mangaka. i am serious when i say i really truly hope and think it is possible that dungeon meshi is her dr slump. that it is a popular manga that will be overshadowed by something even greater. i really think that she has that capacity.
she didn't just create the story as she went, though it evolved spectacularly and in ways she has said she didn't expect as she wrote it, but she created a world that felt rich and was clearly decided on long before any of it became relevant, and in ways that weren't relevant and we only see bits of with these post-series bonuses. what she has let us see seems to be only the tip of the iceberg, and even if you reread you begin to notice that there's stuff she clearly had laid out in her mind that we don't know about.
like i thought that weird half-foot that they were trying to sell vegetables to early on was just a one-off dude, but later on i noticed he reappeared with an implication he has a connection to the corruption of the island:
or beyond that, it's just passingly revealed that the queen of the elves lets marcille off the hook because she had done a similar thing in the past:
it's truly amazing. people do not give this woman enough credit. i am so fucking certain that this woman has the potential to be a household name sort of mangaka. the kind who's name immediately comes to mind when people think manga.
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Brienne question!
So GRRM didn't give us much info about House Tarth, not their words, nothing about the family tree, lots of suggestions perhaps...Duncan the Tall, very blonde, perhaps white/blonde hair, blue perhaps indigo/violet eyes...you see where I'm going.
Anyhoo, question is about the sigil, moon and sun, why not a star? And the title, EvenSTAR-, (related to elves? Arwen? Just cos GRRM likes Tolkien?)
Are all the celestial motifs significant to Brienne's future within the story? If so, in what way?
And...discuss🤣🤓🧐
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isaac, infodumping at length to me about asoiaf: and further north is the wall, and behind the wall are the others, and they can turn corpses into mindless soldiers and they want to kill everyone–
me, interrupting: i want to know absolutely everything about them. i want the books to be about them. what is their deal i am obsessed
isaac: ah. well. so that's basically all we know,
me: incredibly rude of grrm but okay. tell me more about the targaryens then i guess
me, later, infodumping about the witcher: okay so the way magic works is weird because no one but the dwarves and gnomes are native to this dimension & humans have only been here a millenia and a half & they have to kinda cheat to use magic–
isaac, interrupting: wait they're not native to this dimension?
me: yeah they're possibly from earth, which is somewhere else. the continent has these weird big spire things that are in some way connected to other dimensions. elves arrived in ships tho
isaac: what. what. i need so much more information holy shit what do you mean the humans killed almost all the elves if they basically only just got there
me: well. see. yknow how asoiaf wont answer my others questions?
isaac: dammit. rude. tell me about the mages then, i guess
#yelling at clouds#i did have to yell about the mages after learning about the. oh i do not remember how it's spelled. the maesters? asoiaf's one university#anyway. we don't actually have the exact same tastes in media but it's v funny to me how we do both zero in on the most esoteric shit
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Cannot believe people seriously Gendrya or J/B or J/C is the main romance of the series. Gendry does not even have a pov. He is a tertiary character. Jaime, Cersei and Brienne are secondary characters. There is NO way they would ever constitute any central pairing. Why do people like to act so dense istg? It would absolutely be Jon and one of his three female relatives, the three main female characters. This is basic common sense.
Don't you understand that part of the shocking revelations GRRM has in store for us is the subtly hidden and controversial message that incest is bad?
He would NEVER dabble in exploring the greyness of a relationship that has a taboo attached that is inherently justified but not inherently based on abuse of power. GRRM hates when things are grey. He talks about it all the time. It's also not a theme in the literature of the Romantic Period, or the Arthuriana he's so fond of. Byronic heroes and incest? LOL, never!
And he would certainly never even contemplate creating a scenario where the incest issue has a "technically, it's legal" escape clause based on the revelation of someone's true parentage. The fact that this exact scenario is in the discarded "original outline" as an explicit plotline for Jon Snow is proof that GRRM would never do that. It would never cross his mind to do that.
The only incest GRRM approves of, anyway, would be Targaryen incest between actual aunt and nephew, because they are the chosen elves of ASOIAF.
Get with it, anon. ASOIAF has no romance, and if it does, it's definitely going to involve a Lannister, a third-tier non-POV, or a symbolically charged physical union in a magically transcendent bioluminiscently veiled location between at least two people the fandom likes to associate with triple-headed flamethrower-riding.
Or the unspeakable verbal violence and controversial erotic charge of ship metaphors for the participants' intimate physicality.
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More recently, the dominant fandom narrative that’s been cropping up is the idea that ASOIAF isn’t a nihilist story but is instead a rather romantic story at its core. Or better yet, fans have come to accept that while it takes a more realistic approach to medieval fantasy, ASOIAF is essentially a tale about earned romanticism.
In the same story with Roose Bolton and Tywin Lannister, we have Davos Seaworth and Ned Stark and Brienne. The same story with dangerous ice elves who ride the waves of winter to threaten humanity with death and enslavement has characters like Bran Stark whose soul in animal form is called Summer (the opposite of winter) and Daenerys Targaryen who is the mother of dragons (representing heat and passion and life) and a liberator of slaves. So the idea that even in the face of evil and darkness, goodness and light still exist and will eventually prevail, right?
Ok.
So tell me why people then use death and tragedy to define Jon Snow and his story even though he’s morally closer to Brienne, Ned, and Davos, and shares the same magical destiny as Bran and Dany? Why do people keep ascribing tragic endings to him and say he has the most probability to die (where are these statistics coming from)? Or they say that because he dies at the end of ADWD, then he’ll also die at the end of the story?
Jon’s death and resurrection (which happens during winter, mind you) is the idea of life everlasting. Even in death, life will continue to persevere. Jon’s great destiny is to fight the Others. It’s why GRRM made him the main POV in that magical war. His arc has always been related to the greater conflict that is coming. So Jon’s death and return to life is also going to be related to that conflict, right?
See as the Others come riding the winds of winter, death follows. Of course this will affect the world. People may die and the land and its fertility might die as well, but ever persevering is the dream for spring. The dream that after a period of death and darkness and winter, life and light and spring will be restored. Jon, the main POV in the fight against the Others so far, is the embodiment of that.
The next book is called The Winds of Winter and we can expect death and devastation to follow, but we can also expect new life to emerge. That new life is Jon Snow’s resurrection. He will be reborn and will gain new life in spite of winter. Jon’s rebirth in this book is a mirror of the life that will eventually be restored to the land after winter. Jon is literally a dream for spring and it’s actually quite poignant that these words are only ever said in his POV.
And, Jon’s mythological parallels are usually about life after a period of death. Usually there is death and sacrifice but then there is the promise of everlasting life that comes after. Jon is connected to spring and fertility and rebirth!
He is the Corn King, a fertility god who dies and is reborn to bring about the rejuvenation of the land (spring). He is Persephone whose descent into the underworld is accompanied by winter, but whose ascent back to the world of the living brings about the spring. Other mythical parallels like Osiris are presented as gods of fertility who are connected to the promise of life after death. Not to mention the obvious messianic undertones that are everywhere in his story; a savior who dies in the place of his people and is reborn to ensure that they too see life after death. It goes on and on but a majority of the mythological influences in Jon’s story have to do with the concept of fertility and vegetation; NOT death.
So as I see it, the struggle between life and death is personified with Jon Snow. Jon’s death at the end of ADWD coincides with winter arriving in Westeros. But then he won’t stay dead because he will be brought back to life; though we’re not sure how it will happen, only that Jon will have a chance at rebirth.
And Jon will be reborn during winter. Isn’t the idea then that even in the face of death, life prevails? That’s why it’s so thematically relevant that as the cold sweeps through Westeros, a bastard boy is brought back to life near the lands of winter so he can then beat back death. It’s what makes Jon the King of Winter. Not that he represents death but rather that he conquers it.
It’s thematically meaningful for Jon, one of the main heroes of the story, to actually wrestle with death and come out on top. So him dying again at the end of the story or having a tragic end, what’s the point of that? How does that track with the current thematic elements in the story? Yes, this is even if he is to die in an act of self-sacrifice. Jon has already done that at the end of ADWD. What will a second death show that hasn’t been done with the first one? What new understanding will we gain of the character?
I don’t understand why this fandom goes out of its way to deny Jon the romanticism that they ascribe to other characters, even though GRRM puts him at the heart of that struggle between life and death. It’s so vital that out of all the prophesied heroes in the story, Jon is the one who literally tastes death but ultimately defeats it through resurrection. Eventually, that has to mean something to the larger themes presented in the story.
So the point is not that Jon died. The point is that he died but did not stay that way. He lived. The boy lived. So stop using death to define Jon’s story!
#jon snow#asoiaf#sorry needed to rant a lil bit#wanting jon to die at the end for the sake of subversion#actually doesn’t track with his story and the rest of the narrative#sorry 🤷🏽♀️#I’m a Jon is going to live truther#suck it#my stuff
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I do remember that GRRM said he wants the books to have a bittersweet ending like Lord of the Rings. Okay Lord of the Rings… the only Fellowship member who died was Boromir. The reason the ending was bittersweet was because sweet: Sauron was finally defeated for good, Aragorn became King like he was born to be, the Hobbits were recognized as heroes of Middle Earth, peace was restored. But bitter: Frodo’s wound never fully healed, the Fellowship was ended and they went their separate ways, Frodo and Gandalf and Bilbo and the Elves all leave Middle Earth never to return (man Gandalf saying goodbye always makes me cry). Perfect bittersweet. Which makes me think… GRRM won’t have any of the Key Five die (Dany, Jon, Arya, Bran, and Tyrion). Sweet: They will become the heroes of the Realm as the ones who played a huge part in destroying the Others. And they’ll survive and be able to live good lives. But bitter because they’re gonna have trauma to deal with forever, many of the people they knew died, and it will be a LONG time before Westeros and Essos are back to normal. I do not know if Jon and Dany will become King and Queen like I want but that would be part of the sweet. Still if they all survive, the Key Five, that’s really all I need. And I know Jonsas won’t be stopping with their bs but I would take immense pleasure knowing that they were wrong and their dumb theories were all proven false
@whitedragonwolf4961 Sorry for replying to your ask after a looooong time!
So yeah, I personally think that the key 5 will survive. I base this off the story so far in five books and also on GRRM's leaked 1993 original outline for the story, considering he has always insisted that he is heading towards his 1991 ending.
In the leaked outline, all of the key five survive. GRRM admits to using main characters like Ned, Robb and Catelyn to get the readers thinking that anyone can die while there's a set of characters - the key 5 - who will make it through all of the OG trilogy.
And yes, what would make it bittersweet would be the deaths of loved ones, friends and family, the large scale destruction that they would need to rebuild, their ongoing trauma - they have all gone through so much in these 5 books - the sacrifices they would need to make, the compromises. In that sense it's not going to be wholly happy - they are not going to come out in the end unscathed. Jon Snow has even died and we don't even know what version is coming back!!
And remember, reform and change is a major aspect of these characters:
Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and CHANGING THE WORLD and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand.
The Key 5 have big political arcs, are involved in major events and are proactively in control of their own subplots in the books. The youngsters in particular - Dany, Jon, Arya and Bran - are angry about injustice and want to change how things are always done. Dany and Jon have big leadership arcs which are particularly about reforming city states and institutions. Arya's arc with the smallfolk is about her connection with them and the injustice they are facing. As Prince of Winterfell, Bran's empathy for his bastard brother Jon Snow means he signals that Lord Hornwood's bastard can be heir to the Hornwood lands.
I think that's the difference between the previous generation and the current one is that now our main characters don't look past terrible stuff happening and justify it in the name of 'I didn't know' while looking the other way or 'The oaths make it so I should let bad things happen' or 'This is how it's always been so let it happen'. They look past class and gender barriers and do things differently.
And after the Long Night, is when major reform and rebuilding needs to happen. Westeros needs leaders who are angry about what the smallfolk are experiencing, who put the people first, who have the leadership experience to rebuild and reform, in administration and politics and diplomacy, who can build bridges and enact laws - and GRRM has written all that for the key 5.
If they die at the end, then what's the point? So yes, they are very much surviving - in some form or other - though I suspect there will be a lot of sacrifice and compromise that will indeed be very bitter, precisely because good leaders/rulers care about the realm.
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I was wondering if you have any metas discussing the white walker threat. Or maybe know of any that you like? There’s so much content about Dany and the Fire threat and what GRRM is saying with it. But most of what I’ve seen about the Ice/white walkers is like “oh, it’s global warming” and then nothing deeper really.
Hi Nonny,
Thanks for the interesting ask. I tried to answer a couple of nights ago and accidentally deleted my response, which I think was much better than this one. I tried to remember everything I wrote but no doubt, I forgot some things and my second response is not as concise.
I have not written any in-depth metas on the White Walkers/Others yet. I add that caveat because the topic of the Others will play a big role in the final two parts of my Florian and Jonquil series.
The Others and their motivation are the great mystery that’s been hanging over the series since the opening prologue of AGOT. What do they want? Why are they back? Basically, what’s their motivation?
I will say that I don’t think it’s that they want to extinguish all known life to get rid of memory as was D&D’s BS explanation on the show. However, I do think that it’s possible they want to prevent humans from entering the weirwoods, and so on some level, their motivation maybe about wanting to get rid of the memory of the trees. It isn’t, as the show suggested to arbitrarily kill all living men.
Nonetheless, even though D&D’s writing was atrocious once they moved past the books, and their explanation for the Others made no sense, I do think that they dropped many hints on the show about actual upcoming events in the books. This is what made their writing doubly horrible. They knew the actual outcome of the books but didn’t have the interest in putting in the effort and time to do the story justice simply because they wanted to move on to another project.
I think that when TWOW comes out, fans will look back on the show and say, oh, that’s why D&D did that nonsense that made no sense. And yes, I do think that there is a very strong chance we get TWOW, but unless George is lying to us and he’s writing both books before making the publication announcement, I don’t think that we will ever get ADOS.
However, there will likely be enough in TWOW to allow fans to extrapolate the ending of the series. The funny thing is that Dan and Dave may think and hope that fans may look more positively upon the things they did on the show, but, if possible, it will be even worse for them as fans will call them out even more for not following through on all the beats in George’s story.
George doesn’t write evil for evil’s sake ala Sauron and the Orcs. He also doesn’t write characters that are purely good like the Hobbits and the Elves who purpose is simply to oppose the evil villains. He, as he has said on multiple occasions, writes about the human heart in conflict.
This says to me that there is much more to the story of the NK, the Others, and their motivation than is currently suggested on the page or from the mouths of characters. I suspect that their motivation will be more like that of Ineluki and the Sithi from Tad Williams’ Memory Sorrow and Thorn that George has said inspired him to write ASOIAF.
My other reason for thinking that there is more to the Others than meets the eyes is because their legend is closely connected to House Stark, and let’s face it, the Starks are the central protagonists of the story.
This is not to say that past, current, and future Starks have not done, and will not do some arguably dark deeds that may surprise fans. They certainly will. This is more obviously foreshadowed in Arya’s arc, but it’s there for Bran, and strongly for Jon and Sansa as well. Revenge is a dish best served cold after all.
If you have read any of my essays, particularly my Florian and Jonquil series, you know that I’ve proposed that those two ancient characters were the NK and CQ and leader of the Others, and that the same will be true of Jon and Sansa. This may sound as sacrilegious to some as saying Dany will be the major villain at the end sounds to other parts of the fandom. Nevertheless, I think both will be the case.
I’ll be going into this idea in more detail in my last two chapters of the Florian and Jonquil series, but I propose that George has been setting up Jon and Sansa as the NK/CQ since the first book. Originally, I think the plan was for Jon and Arya to play those roles, but somewhere in the writing of AGOT, he switched it to be Jon and Sansa.
In my opinion, he’s been dropping clues since AGOT and has up the quotient in AFFC and ADWD, as well as the Alayne preview chapter from TWOW. These clues include Jon’s murder at the Wall; placing Sansa in the Vale; her coming up with the idea of Winged Knights to protect Sweet Robin to mirror the Kingsguard, and the little boy’s request that there be 8 instead of 7; the fact that Jon and Sansa are the only two starklings referred to as the Blood of Winterfell; Ghost and Shade; making them both bastards; and Harry asking for Sansa’s favor to name just a few.
George is an expert at wordplay as is the case with any good writer. He uses play on words throughout the text in most interesting ways where a sentence or passage can have double meaning. He does this in the Alayne preview chapter for TWOW when Harry the Heir asks Sansa for her favor the night before the Tourney begins.
He has good teeth, she thought, straight and white. And when he smiles, he has the nicest dimples. She ran one finger down his cheek. "Should we ever wed, you'll have to send Saffron back to her father. I'll be all the spice you'll want."
He grinned. "I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?"
"You may not. It is promised to...another." She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone. —TWOW, Alayne I
George loves to use ellipses to indicate information is missing and to make the reader wonder what he might be hiding. Sansa tells Harry that her favor and all that implies is promised to another, or in other words…pun fully intended, her favor is promised to *an Other. *
There is another bit of wordplay in the same chapter that tips to Sansa being the CQ as well and this time it comes from Petyr. Sansa the Chthonic Persephone character of the story descends to the underground granary, a symbolic underworld where the wheat is being stored for the winter. Here she meets with the pseudo-Hades and we get this dialogue.
“Yes," she said, "but he thinks that I'm a bastard."
"A beautiful bastard, and the Lord Protector's daughter." Petyr drew her close and kissed her on both cheeks. "The night belongs to you, sweetling, Remember that, always."—TWOW, Alayne I
The night belongs to Sansa. Interesting wordplay when you consider the tale Old Nan told the kids about the Night King. More importantly for this brief analysis is a certain part of her tale Bran remembers when at the Nightfort.
No, Bran thought, but he walked in this castle, where we'll sleep tonight. He did not like that notion very much at all. Night's King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it's getting dark. —ASOS, Bran IV
When you consider all the clues tying Sansa to the CQ, one can see how the comment by Petyr, just as the new Long Night is about to fall mirrors the one Old Nan told to Bran. The NK was a man by day, but the night was his to rule…suggesting as LML and others have proposed, the night he ruled was the Long Night. And he did not rule alone, he had a queen by his side.
So, the night belongs to Sansa, and the night is also destined to be ruled by the NK who was also the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, and the brother of the man who brought him down. See where I’m going.
Old Nan is right. It is getting dark, because winter is coming and the king and queen of the Long Night shall rule.
Regarding other metas about the Others, LML has a few theories, which you can find on his YouTube channel here. Sweetsunray is another person who has put forth some interesting hypothesis on her blog. LML’s theories are based on mythological symbolism, while Sweetsunray is partially centered around George’s previous writings in his Thousand World universe. I don’t necessarily agree with all their theories, but they are certainly thought provoking and worth a listen and or read.
Again, thanks for the ask.
#ask stormcloud#thoughts on this and that#the others#white walkers#the night's king#night's queen#corpse queen#asoiaf endgame#jon snow#sansa stark#house stark#florian and jonquil
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*I love the Starks as much as the next person* said the one that in a previous message accused Sansa of poisoning her little cousin.
*but saying that them (The Starks, according to you?), conquering and murdering those who sing the song of the earth is OK because it happened 8000 years ago is disrespectful (...)* The Stark children didn't do that, that was my point mentioning the more than 8000 years that separate the war between the COTF & the First Men and the events happening in the main ASOIAF Books.
I focused my answers in the Stark children and also mentioned how the war between the COTF & the First Men (House Stark ancestors) a couple of times, so maybe you would re-read that part of TWOIAF and realize how that war actually developed and the reasons why it ended in a peace treaty.
You hate the Andals? OK, but try to not confuse them with the First Men. You also love "GRRM's elves"? Kinda contradictory but also OK, because this is fiction.
Yeah, this is fiction and I don't get why are you mixing and confusing fiction with reality so much????
What I said about the Stark children and the war between the COTF & the First Men, is disrespectful to whom??? Again, this is fiction, this is high fantasy somehow based on History here and there, it has nothing to do directly with real life or real History. I don't even believe your sad tragic story because you started insulting me, calling me a lot of names, and then telling me I was scared of answering your consecutive mesagges because I'm sure you were desperately expecting my answer while I was probably living my best life or sleeping. And you even mentioned God . . . . So now that the insults didn't work you come with this kind of what? Gaslighting, guilt-tripping or something?
I won't magically start loving "GRRM's elves," just because it seems to be your personal crusade to make me change my mind or make me feel bad about not worshipping your fave Asoiaf characters.
*Please speak with more care* said the troll crying, insulting me, and trying to manipulate me in my inbox . . . .
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not #that person bothering your properly tagged anti targaryen post because how come the "GRRM's elves" being blond purists makes them naz*-coded and blabla. meanwhile, grrm:
(https://href.li/?https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2777)
[Are the children of the forest like elves, and are there other races besides them?]
No, no elves. The children are... well, the children.
Westeros has its giants too, so there are other races in my world. But no elves. Elves have been done to death.
It was a matter of time, we knew it. And the fact they can't even read to what it was related to and keep coming with whataboustim all the time. "bUt wHaT aBoUt tHe StArKs" yeah, what about it.
Funny thing you mentioned elves, because GRRM really doesn't consider elves nor nothing like that, but Linda literally ignored his statement and decided to justify that eugeny with comparing the blondies to elves (when we know there's nothing that recquires elves to be white and blonde)
I think it's funny to think their fandom like to say they are the elves of westeros when a person like this thinks the same.
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It’s even worse. It’s not only that simply featuring misogyny in your story doesn’t automatically mean exploring or critiquing it in any meaningful way, it’s that… it’s a story. And a work of fantasy at that. You could do literally anything else if you actually wanted to. It’s really telling imo that so many male writers can imagine a whole fantasy world from scratch, but not one where women aren’t treated as lesser- instead treating misogyny as an inevitability they had no control over. (1)
They fall back to the “bUT historical accuracy! Muh medieval realism!” argument but it’s always so selectively applied. Where WAS your oh-so-precious historical accuracy and medieval realism all those dragons, elves, spells and prophecies ago? Why can you readily accept all of that despite not being even remotely realistic, but women being in power, competent in combat or otherwise thriving without being constantly sidelined or brutalized is what breaks your suspension of disbelief- (2)
-and ONLY THEN you will treat not sticking with reality as a flaw? The whole “muh realism” argument at this point has just become neckbeard code for “I can’t tolerate even fictional women getting equal treatment and having nice things, but I don’t have the self-awareness and emotional intelligence to understand that I’m sexist so I just do these mental gymnastics to make my misogyny appear like a valid intellectual argument.” (3)
GRRM has a bad habit of including misogyny as an obstacle for his ambitious female characters (which, on its own is neutral) but looking at how their stories end he almost always lets misogyny win and doesn’t seem interested in exploring it beyond “world sexist. Sexism bad”. He treats it more as a plot device than a theme. And many ppl seem to overlook it and continue to praise him for his female characters just because he’s good at characterization, despite constantly doing them dirty. (4)
All the misogyny he has subjected his ambitious female characters to (such as Rhaenyra) amounting to something thematically hinges entirely on Dany- or a Dany- succeeding in the end. Otherwise it’s just a meaningless, chauvinistic, misery-filled angtsfest. And well… we know what his endgame plans are now, so that’s all it is. I don’t begrudge people for enjoying HotD or still being invested in ASOIAF but I’ll never relate. As a woman there’s nothing in this story for me. (5)
#presenting without comment#bravo anon#bravo#anti got#anti asoiaf#daenerys targaryen#rhaenyra targaryen#ask
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TAG GAME: 3 songs, 3 books, 3 movies
tagged by @joequinns and @eretriahs tysm lovelies <3
three songs:
linger, nostalghia
the grey, bad omens
(don't fear) the reaper, blue oyster cult
three books:
a game of thrones, grrm
six of crows, leigh bardugo
blood of elves, andrzej sapkowski
three movies:
atomic blonde
batman (1989)
the mummy (1999)
tagging @bhxrdy and anyone else who wants to do this!
#tag game#about#kat.txt#i was thinking about this for like 2 days lol#i tried to stick with random/comfort faves
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Daemyra from GRRM reminds me a lot of Eöl & Aredhel from Tolkien. In the sense that both relationships seem to have been primarily distorted by propaganda. “Fire and Blood” and “The Silmarillon” both being a collection of so-called “historical” stories for their respective universes, written by people from the universe in question.
For the Dance of Dragons, it is the pro-Greens maesters who mainly write the story, hating Rhaenyra, obviously because of the misogyny. And Daemon, because of the prejudices against him, Otto obviously, because Daemon is from the Blacks team ; Him being the greatest supporter, defender and not to mention, Rhaenyra's husband himself.
Then, for the story of Eöl & Aredhel, it is said that Eöl fell in love with Aredhel upon seeing her wandering the woods, essentially kidnapping her and marrying her by force. Except that their history is written by the Noldor, including one from Godolin, where Aredhel, sister of the king, comes from, who write the story. However, you should know that one of the important laws on marriage among the Noldor is to ask consent from both families beforehand. Generally, no marriage is refused because elves marry for love and see little point in doing so otherwise. But not asking for the family's agreement is very badly received by the Noldor. In this story we therefore have an Elf, Eöl, who according to the version is a Sindar, or an Avari pimp, who marries a Noldor princess without asking her family's consent, which is necessarily very frowned upon by the Noldor, so the people who write the story. Then with Aredhel's character and it is clearly specified that she could ride alone on her side, it's hard to believe that she would not have run away if the marriage had not been agreed at all on her side. If the girl stands up to her brother the king, loses his guards and finds her way back, why the hell would she let herself be fooled by a stranger she met in the woods ? Add to all this a small note in a text, which could suggest that an Elf would not survive a rape, her spirit preferring to leave her body to join the halls of Mandos rather than undergo that (afterwards this is my interpretation). So if it is a forced marriage there is necessarily rape, and therefore Aredhel should not have survived the union with Eöl.
So, if we combine all of that ; the non-respect of marriage traditions among the Noldor, the writing of the story by a wise man from Godolin and a tragic end, well we can assume that the Noldor who wrote this story were very bitter and saw in Eöl a monster guilty of the worst atrocities from the start.
From my point of view, the two fell in love, got together, but their relationship deteriorated over time to end in the tragedy we know. This is where, on the other hand, it diverges from Daemyra for me in terms of tragedy, because for me, their story ended with a misunderstanding, Daemon having certainly never cheated on Rhaenyra with Nettles, in more beyond that, Daemon having never harmed Rhaenyra and having always been on her side, unlike Eöl who will end up harming / kill Aredhel. (Even if yes, killing Aredhel was an accident, let's not forget that Eöl was basically aiming to kill their own son and Aredhel intervened, taking the blow in his place)
This is all probably a very controversial opinion, but it's mine.
#daemyra#daemon x rhaenyra#rhaenyra x daemon#daemon and rhaenyra#rhaenyra and daemon#rhaenyra targaryen#daemon targaryen#the realms delight#the rogue prince#eöl#aredhel#eöl x aredhel#aredhel x eöl#eöl and aredhel#aredhel and eöl#the silmarillion#tolkien#fire and blood#grrm#grr martin#george rr martin#nettles#team blacks#anti team greens#anti greens stans#anti greens#pro team blacks#the black queen#anti hotd#anti house of the dragon
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at least him and his half siblings all have cool or just normal pretty names, there are some cursed targ mashups that keep me up at night along with cemen
also.. TELEPORNO???
GRRM is on the record saying he wanted Aegor to be cool, so that should be reflected in his name as well as the sigil. I’d have no problem with Daemon, if GRRM didn’t retcon Daemon the Rogue Prince into a namesake. And Shiera Seastar according to the linked SSM means “Star of the Sea Seastar”, which seems redundant (plus I don’t think starfish deserve to be connected to Shiera). For me, it’s the Ironborn names that have cursed potential (Euron and Urrigon are already ripe for Urine related puns).
Teleporno is the Telerin (language spoken by the Sea-Elves of Valinor) version of the Sindarin (language spoken by the Gray elves of Middle-Earth) Celeborn; Celeborn is a Sindarin elf, so the Teleri version is rarely used in text. Keep in mind that JRRT was a straight laced Catholic living before mainstream pornography (and mostly pre the age of television), so any connection to televisions and pornos is coincidental. Similarly coincidental is the connection between Celeborn’s grandfather Elmo and a certain red monster.
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