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lemonhemlock · 5 months

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i get what you’re saying but i get what dany stans are saying too, what is the difference between dany taking back kl and sansa taking back winterfell? at the end of the day, monarchy sucks and none of these characters are truly "worthy"

I approached this topic more in-depth here and here.

The difference between Dany taking back King's Landing and Sansa taking back Winterfell lies in the construction of legitimacy. When engaging with medieval fantasy, rejecting its political framework and ignoring its limitations in absorbing more egalitarian ideology (and the socio-technological constraints that inform those political/philosophical limitations) is going to prove a fruitless pursuit. Westeros is roughly based on feudal Europe and has a recognizable European political thought inheritance and recognizable medieval technology and means, so I think it would be reasonable to employ political philosophy that could be plausibly applied during the period from which it takes inspiration.

~unnecessarily long essay no one asked for below~

In this regard, what makes for a "worthy" ruler in medieval times might differ with the passage of centuries, as socio-political practices transform. Which is why I feel like the validity of monarchy as a form of government was never truly under question in this setting, even though it has certainly been criticised and points have been made about social injustices arising from wealth disparities and the segregation of social spheres (I hesitate to call them social classes as I don't think the Westerosi have developed class consciousness yet).

I think that this is ultimately an element of disappointment for some readers, who are trying to project onto the text something that is not there, instead of switching to progressive fiction that addresses their concerns and presents alternative political systems. What I mean to say is that dismissing all types of monarchy as illegitimate is not useful within the text, as it renders all differences between the characters null & ignores the entire historical evolution of the concept of legitimacy. So you end up with takes like "it doesn't really matter who sits the throne". It matters very much to Martin, because that is the type of story he is trying to tell, that's... the entire point of the series. He is a boomer writing about dragons and knights in the 90s, not a transformative political thinker who is going to smack us with a new social order at the end of the series. That doesn't mean he can't critique the system or the characters' approaches to ruling. That's why he keeps killing the unfit kings & punishing those who rely on wanton brutality.

Coming back to the question, Dany's family was deposed, meaning that, legally-speaking, she doesn't have any "birthright" to the throne of Westeros anymore, no matter what she tells herself. Is deposition legal? John Locke certainly thought so in his Second Treatise of Government, chapters "Of Tyranny" and "Of The Dissolution of Government". Below we have Jean-Jacques Rousseau, "Discourse on Inequality":

OK, these are Enlightenment thinkers, but the concept was not new. The Magna Carta of 1215 certainly has a provision for this. That's medieval enough, I feel.

(Ralph V. Turner, "Magna Carta Through the Ages", Harlow, Pearson Longman, 2003 - the original article was too long lol but anyone can look it up for themselves).

Thomas Aquinas, "Summa Theologica", 1274:

etc.

You will find these ideas under the term "right of revolution".

Many medieval kings IRL have been deposed or lost their crown. Richard II, anyone? There's an entire play about it. So, yes, Robert Baratheon is the legal king of Westeros at the start of AGOT and Viserys / Daenerys simply are not. There is no birthright to speak of, that is just Dany's entitlement that goes unchecked and unquestioned.

Of course, crowns can be won back by the right of conquest, which is what Dany is trying to do. GRRM's plan for her seems to either be rejected by the people of King's Landing for whatever reason (a la Rhaenyra maybe) or for her to commit such an atrocity on the city in her attempt to seize it that it disqualifies her as a potential ruler because she breaks the normal rules of engagement to a horrifying degree (i.e. dragonflame). Dany's entire plan is questionable from the start, since she intends to mount an invasion on a people brutalised by several years of war already, on the onset of winter - essentially extra suffering. The conditions are there so that the Westerosi might not interpret her actions as liberation, but merely as another pretender to the throne, who is only after her personal betterment - basically no different from what they've seen before, so no reason to join her cause or believe in her propaganda. She will bring fire-breathing monsters, Dothraki and Unsullied warriors to their lands, whom they fear and for whom they have no kinship. They have no particular attachment to the old Targaryen kings either. In short, Dany's father was deposed and she will end up deposed herself because of her own actions (or never recognised in the first place). I'm not saying this because I have beef with Daenerys, she is not a real person who did me wrong, she is a fictional character the author is using to illustrate a political idea.

Whereas the people of the North maintain a very favourable view of the Starks and of Ned Stark in particular. They are seen as the legitimate rulers of the North and their replacements (the Boltons) are almost universally hated. The text is littered with "the North remembers" and "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" and general Stark-fawning. The people of the North were very eager to name Ned Stark's son as their king. The people of the Night's Watch voted for Ned Stark's 15-year-old bastard as their leader. Ramsay Bolton pretends to marry Arya Stark to consolidate his legitimacy as the ruler of Winterfell and the North. Many other characters covet Sansa for the same reason. The Starks have not been deposed, unlike the Targaryens, they're just missing / presumed dead and Winterfell is up for grabs. None of our Northern characters think how lovely it would be if we had a Targaryen restauration. These things may seem like candy floss to the modern reader and they may not resonate, but they mattered a lot in the past. So when Sansa takes back Winterfell, it will be with the backing of the majority of the Northern population and with the help of the Knights of the Vale, who are seen as honourable and are of Andal descent, so will not be perceived as foreign invaders. No one in the North will be contemplating their right-to-revolution against the Starks, because they will be revolting alongside Sansa to free themselves from the abusive Bolton rule.

Sansa rebuilds Winterfell out of snow and thinks of it warmly as her home, feels kinship and connection with the place she grew up in, whereas Daenerys feels possessive over a land she's never seen and wants to take it with "fire and blood". True, these are not actions, not crimes for Dany and neither acts of benevolence for Sansa. They haven't done anything yet. But they are images. Framing. Hints. That's how literature works.

Could Dany be given a narrative of Westerosi restauration? Could GRRM write her as gaining popular support and as not breaking the social contract while installing herself back on the throne? Had only Book 1 been published, these questions would have had more validity. But after Book 5? Not when Martin frames her like that and literally kicks her out of the city she conquered.

#not me writing a whole ass paper on this LOL #🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️#ask #anon #asoiaf #grrm #asoiaf endgame #anti daenerys targaryen #sansa stark

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stormcloudrising · 1 year

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I was wondering if you have any metas discussing the white walker threat. Or maybe know of any that you like? There’s so much content about Dany and the Fire threat and what GRRM is saying with it. But most of what I’ve seen about the Ice/white walkers is like “oh, it’s global warming” and then nothing deeper really.

Hi Nonny,

Thanks for the interesting ask. I tried to answer a couple of nights ago and accidentally deleted my response, which I think was much better than this one. I tried to remember everything I wrote but no doubt, I forgot some things and my second response is not as concise.

I have not written any in-depth metas on the White Walkers/Others yet. I add that caveat because the topic of the Others will play a big role in the final two parts of my Florian and Jonquil series.

The Others and their motivation are the great mystery that’s been hanging over the series since the opening prologue of AGOT. What do they want? Why are they back? Basically, what’s their motivation?

I will say that I don’t think it’s that they want to extinguish all known life to get rid of memory as was D&D’s BS explanation on the show. However, I do think that it’s possible they want to prevent humans from entering the weirwoods, and so on some level, their motivation maybe about wanting to get rid of the memory of the trees. It isn’t, as the show suggested to arbitrarily kill all living men.

Nonetheless, even though D&D’s writing was atrocious once they moved past the books, and their explanation for the Others made no sense, I do think that they dropped many hints on the show about actual upcoming events in the books. This is what made their writing doubly horrible. They knew the actual outcome of the books but didn’t have the interest in putting in the effort and time to do the story justice simply because they wanted to move on to another project.

I think that when TWOW comes out, fans will look back on the show and say, oh, that’s why D&D did that nonsense that made no sense. And yes, I do think that there is a very strong chance we get TWOW, but unless George is lying to us and he’s writing both books before making the publication announcement, I don’t think that we will ever get ADOS.

However, there will likely be enough in TWOW to allow fans to extrapolate the ending of the series. The funny thing is that Dan and Dave may think and hope that fans may look more positively upon the things they did on the show, but, if possible, it will be even worse for them as fans will call them out even more for not following through on all the beats in George’s story.

George doesn’t write evil for evil’s sake ala Sauron and the Orcs. He also doesn’t write characters that are purely good like the Hobbits and the Elves who purpose is simply to oppose the evil villains. He, as he has said on multiple occasions, writes about the human heart in conflict.

This says to me that there is much more to the story of the NK, the Others, and their motivation than is currently suggested on the page or from the mouths of characters. I suspect that their motivation will be more like that of Ineluki and the Sithi from Tad Williams’ Memory Sorrow and Thorn that George has said inspired him to write ASOIAF.

My other reason for thinking that there is more to the Others than meets the eyes is because their legend is closely connected to House Stark, and let’s face it, the Starks are the central protagonists of the story.

This is not to say that past, current, and future Starks have not done, and will not do some arguably dark deeds that may surprise fans. They certainly will. This is more obviously foreshadowed in Arya’s arc, but it’s there for Bran, and strongly for Jon and Sansa as well. Revenge is a dish best served cold after all.

If you have read any of my essays, particularly my Florian and Jonquil series, you know that I’ve proposed that those two ancient characters were the NK and CQ and leader of the Others, and that the same will be true of Jon and Sansa. This may sound as sacrilegious to some as saying Dany will be the major villain at the end sounds to other parts of the fandom. Nevertheless, I think both will be the case.

I’ll be going into this idea in more detail in my last two chapters of the Florian and Jonquil series, but I propose that George has been setting up Jon and Sansa as the NK/CQ since the first book. Originally, I think the plan was for Jon and Arya to play those roles, but somewhere in the writing of AGOT, he switched it to be Jon and Sansa.

In my opinion, he’s been dropping clues since AGOT and has up the quotient in AFFC and ADWD, as well as the Alayne preview chapter from TWOW. These clues include Jon’s murder at the Wall; placing Sansa in the Vale; her coming up with the idea of Winged Knights to protect Sweet Robin to mirror the Kingsguard, and the little boy’s request that there be 8 instead of 7; the fact that Jon and Sansa are the only two starklings referred to as the Blood of Winterfell; Ghost and Shade; making them both bastards; and Harry asking for Sansa’s favor to name just a few.

George is an expert at wordplay as is the case with any good writer. He uses play on words throughout the text in most interesting ways where a sentence or passage can have double meaning. He does this in the Alayne preview chapter for TWOW when Harry the Heir asks Sansa for her favor the night before the Tourney begins.

He has good teeth, she thought, straight and white. And when he smiles, he has the nicest dimples. She ran one finger down his cheek. "Should we ever wed, you'll have to send Saffron back to her father. I'll be all the spice you'll want."

He grinned. "I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?"

"You may not. It is promised to...another." She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone. —TWOW, Alayne I

George loves to use ellipses to indicate information is missing and to make the reader wonder what he might be hiding. Sansa tells Harry that her favor and all that implies is promised to another, or in other words…pun fully intended, her favor is promised to *an Other. *

There is another bit of wordplay in the same chapter that tips to Sansa being the CQ as well and this time it comes from Petyr. Sansa the Chthonic Persephone character of the story descends to the underground granary, a symbolic underworld where the wheat is being stored for the winter. Here she meets with the pseudo-Hades and we get this dialogue.

“Yes," she said, "but he thinks that I'm a bastard."

"A beautiful bastard, and the Lord Protector's daughter." Petyr drew her close and kissed her on both cheeks. "The night belongs to you, sweetling, Remember that, always."—TWOW, Alayne I

The night belongs to Sansa. Interesting wordplay when you consider the tale Old Nan told the kids about the Night King. More importantly for this brief analysis is a certain part of her tale Bran remembers when at the Nightfort.

No, Bran thought, but he walked in this castle, where we'll sleep tonight. He did not like that notion very much at all. Night's King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it's getting dark. —ASOS, Bran IV

When you consider all the clues tying Sansa to the CQ, one can see how the comment by Petyr, just as the new Long Night is about to fall mirrors the one Old Nan told to Bran. The NK was a man by day, but the night was his to rule…suggesting as LML and others have proposed, the night he ruled was the Long Night. And he did not rule alone, he had a queen by his side.

So, the night belongs to Sansa, and the night is also destined to be ruled by the NK who was also the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, and the brother of the man who brought him down. See where I’m going.

Old Nan is right. It is getting dark, because winter is coming and the king and queen of the Long Night shall rule.

Regarding other metas about the Others, LML has a few theories, which you can find on his YouTube channel here. Sweetsunray is another person who has put forth some interesting hypothesis on her blog. LML’s theories are based on mythological symbolism, while Sweetsunray is partially centered around George’s previous writings in his Thousand World universe. I don’t necessarily agree with all their theories, but they are certainly thought provoking and worth a listen and or read.

Again, thanks for the ask.

#ask stormcloud #thoughts on this and that #the others #white walkers #the night's king #night's queen #corpse queen #asoiaf endgame #jon snow #sansa stark #house stark #florian and jonquil

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ziphius · 9 months

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#asoiaf #asoiaf endgame #i think trans sam would have the biggest impact on society #maybe arya would be an any pronouns will do person #arya stark #jon snow #jon x satin #daenerys targaryen #sam tarly

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arte072 · 1 month

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In the godswood she found her broomstick sword where she had left it, and carried it to the heart tree. There she knelt. Red leaves rustled. Red eyes peered inside her. The eyes of the gods. "Tell me what to do, you gods," she prayed. For a long moment there was no sound but the wind and the water and the creak of leaf and limb. And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf. Gooseprickles rose on Arya's skin, and for an instant she felt dizzy. Then, so faintly, it seemed as if she heard her father's voice. "When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives," he said. "But there is no pack," she whispered to the weirwood. Bran and Rickon were dead, the Lannisters had Sansa, Jon had gone to the Wall. "I'm not even me now, I'm Nan." "You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong. You have the wolf blood in you." "The wolf blood." Arya remembered now. "I'll be as strong as Robb. I said I would." She took a deep breath, then lifted the broomstick in both hands and brought it down across her knee. It broke with a loud crack, and she threw the pieces aside. I am a direwolf, and done with wooden teeth. - Arya X, ACoK

Arya is so rarely associated with faith and prayer in this fandom, yet when she prays to the Old Gods for guidance, they respond and restrengthen her sense of self. Arya of Winterfell! Daughter of the North! She is a direwolf and done with wooden teeth! ✨🤍🩶🐺✨

#arya stark #house stark #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #artists on tumblr #digital art #illustration #asoiaf fanart #one of many reasons why her endgame is in the north tbh #this fandom tries to shove her off to the riverlands or essos or west of whatever #but the old gods themselves said her ass belongs to north actually 🤭🥰😘

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hylialeia · 9 months

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I've really soured on the whole "if these female characters end up in any position other than one of feudal power and influence it means GRRM is perpetuating the harmful idea that women should be punished for their ambition" because while I am aware that is a rather disappointing and common takeaway in fantasy (and other) series in general, I am ALSO aware the strongest most consistent hammer-you-over-the-head-with-it motif across asoiaf thus far has been "FEUDALISM BAD" which is sort of hard to keep impactful when your endgame is "and then they ruled happily ever after and were so good at it nothing bad ever happened again". y'know.

#asoiaf #which I also think of irt kitn bran because while I find that a likely endgame #I also am unsure how positive of a thing it will be or how well it might mesh with this particular theme otherwise #something to chew on for sure #asoiaf meta #ish

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pixiecactus · 28 days

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i don't ship jonrya (gendrya it's the one for me tbh) but i swear it bothers me so much that people in this fandom like to discard jonrya like something absurd, that really has no foundation in the books (i can only think of one jon's ships that is like this and it's not jonrya let me tell you) when we have time and time again in both of arya and jon's chapters actually shown how they are so devoted to eachother, making one of the strongest bonds in the entire series, even if you don't take the og outline (jonrya endgame) in consideration:

in agot:

"And Arya…he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had…yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him."

and:

"She would have given anything if Jon had been here to call her “little sister” and muss her hair."

in acok:

"When at last she slept, she dreamed of home. The kingsroad wound its way past Winterfell on its way to the Wall, and Yoren had promised he’d leave her there with no one any wiser about who she’d been. She yearned to see her mother again, and Robb and Bran and Rickon . . . but it was Jon Snow she thought of most. She wished somehow they could come to the Wall before Winterfell, so Jon might muss up her hair and call her “little sister.” She’d tell him, “I missed you,” and he’d say it too at the very same moment, the way they always used to say things together. She would have liked that. She would have liked that better than anything."

and:

"As he rode, Jon peeled off his glove to air his burned fingers. Ugly things. He remembered suddenly how he used to muss Arya’s hair. His little stick of a sister. He wondered how she was faring. It made him a little sad to think that he might never muss her hair again. He began to flex his hand, opening and closing the fingers. If he let his sword hand stiffen and grow clumsy, it well might be the end of him, he knew. A man needed his sword beyond the Wall."

their current companions remind them of eachother:

“NO!” Arya and Gendry both said, at the exact same instant. Hot Pie quailed a little. Arya gave Gendry a sideways look. He said it with me, like Jon used to do, back in Winterfell. She missed Jon Snow the most of all her brothers.

and romantic interests too:

Ygritte trotted beside Jon as he slowed his garron to a walk. She claimed to be three years older than him, though she stood half a foot shorter; however old she might be, the girl was a tough little thing. Stonesnake had called her a “spearwife” when they’d captured her in the Skirling Pass. She wasn’t wed and her weapon of choice was a short curved bow of horn and weirwood, but “spearwife” fit her all the same. She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore.

and i want to end with one of my favourite arya's quotes:

“I know where we could go,” Arya said. She still had one brother left. Jon will want me, even if no one else does. He’ll call me “little sister” and muss my hair. It was a long way, though, and she didn’t think she could get there by herself. She hadn’t even been able to reach Riverrun. “We could go to the Wall.”

so... no, the idea of jon x arya is not strange at all actually

#there's a lot of more moments in the books but i'm lazy sorry #as a gendrya shipper if jonrya it's actually the books endgame i'm going to be so happy for them #and as a gendrya shipper somedays i can´t help to think that jonrya has to much potential for gendrya to actually happen (one of my fears)#but in the end jonrya are eachothers person (soulmates if you will)#and term that can be romantic or platonic #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #house stark #arya stark #jon snow #gendry #jonrya #ygritte #anti sansa stans #anti jonsa stans #anti jonsa #even typing that anti tag makes me want to vomit #like jon(🙂) and here comes the vomit sa(🤮)

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fromtheseventhhell · 1 month

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How it feels knowing I'll enjoy Arya's arc whether my theories are right or not because I'm a fan of what's written in the books, not what I projected onto her character

#arya stark #asoiaf #it's such a freeing feeling fr especially knowing that she's one of George's favorite characters #unless he suddenly loses the ability to write I know her story is going to be well handled #because what's already there is one of the most complex well developed characters in the books #I don't need her to have a specific endgame or for her story to follow a strict path I just need her to not be treated like an afterthought #the way he writes her and actually gives her nuance lets me know canon!Arya's story will be nothing like her show counterpart 🤗#now if George was a modern twitter warrior writer then I'd be nervous 😭

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melrosing · 5 months

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If the kingdoms at the end go all independent. Who ends up king in the north? I assume Sansa is queen in the vale with Harold hardying but is bran really ok for king in the north? Will it go to Rickon?

talked about this a little before but basically I don't really see the seven kingdoms each becoming independent: I think whatever becomes of the Targaryen legacy, Aegon's ice & fire dream (or whatever it was called lol) was clear that there was strength in unity and I think that echoes throughout asoiaf generally.

I think it's likely Sansa will govern the North (I agree that her arc in preparing her for that role is incomplete, but at least she has that arc where compared to Rickon). Arya's a charismatic character and a strong leader besides, you could certainly say she'd be as good at governing as Sansa. but I just don't really feel like a governing role resonates in her story regardless, so that does leave Sansa (who I personally really doubt will just marry Harold Hardyng and settle down in the Vale for all of time)

and I fully buy into the Bran as a fisher king theory - I don't think he'll govern exactly but will become a figurehead of westeros, uniting the people and the land. doubt he'll be based in King's Landing as that's likely to be a pile of ash and in any case was always very much part of the political plot, divorced from the supernatural and the struggles of the rest of Westeros. you constantly get a sense of KL as a corrupted seat where the monarchs and their court are entirely removed from the smallfolk on their very doorstep, so I don't see it having a place in Bran's reign, whatever that ends up looking like

#ask #asoiaf #sansa stark #arya stark #bran stark #i know people have strong opinions on whether arya will rule winterfell in the endgame #this is just my opinion and one i'm happy to discuss #but yeah i don't know why people want it to go to Rickon??#it's occasionally thrown around in girl fights over whether Sansa or Arya get the seat like King Solomon offering to slice the baby in half #like if you keep grasping for what's mine then let's just make it so niether of us get it!!! lol

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ride-thedragon · 1 month

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THE POSSIBILITY OF NETTLES NOT BEING IN HOTD.

I'm still not buying it. I don't think they'll go out of their way to cast Silver Denys who's most notable feat is dying because of Sheepstealer and the Cannibal, Alyn of Hull, who's purpose in the narrative at this point is to be burned by Sheepstealer and not include Nettles.

I know a lot of people are trying to say that maybe Baela has taken her place, but I don't think so. They are sending Rhaena away to the Vale for her storyline. Baela has a bigger part in the fighting, but I don't think that after House Velayron loses Rhaenys, Corlys will allow Baela to fight. I think she'll be placed on Driftmark to pacify Corlys and allow for some sort of representation of his loyalty to Rhaenyra to be at her side. At that point, they would have three new dragon riders so she could sit it out. I think that Baela would be a better person to introduce the idea of Addam (and Alyn) as Heirs to house Velayron because she's more politically savvy in this adaptation.

This is also the season where they set up the Battle Nettles participates in, and she was always the last Dragonseed to claim her dragon, and her process seemed to take the longest.

Basically I'm not worried until we know that Jace is gonna die.

Also, if they choose to bring her in season 3, I genuinely believe it's because they are not going to let her be a Dragonseed in the actual sense. She will not be of Valyrian descent because thematically, she'd be removed from the sowing.

Don't get sad if you're anticipating her, and don't get happy if you want her to be removed. It seems very deliberate that she hasn't been announced, but the feat she achieves is being set up.

STAN THE DRAGON AND RIDER MARKED AND NAMED THIEVES FOR CLEAR SKIN.

#hotd #house of the dragon #nettles #nettles asoiaf #netty #a song of ice and fire #are yall okay?#we lost the plot again #its okay #nettles and sheepstealer #sheepstealer #the cannibal #body stealing ghost fans we're so back #if she isn't there next season ill wave my white flag and ride at dawn #but until then #we are so endgame #daemon will burn

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nightswatchdisbandmentera · 5 days

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Something rubbed against his leg beneath the table. Jon saw red eyes staring up at him. “Hungry again?” he asked. There was still half a honeyed chicken in the center of the table. Jon reached out to tear off a leg, then had a better idea. He knifed the bird whole and let the carcass slide to the floor between his legs. Ghost ripped into it in savage silence. His brothers and sisters had not been permitted to bring their wolves to the banquet, but there were more curs than Jon could count at this end of the hall, and no one had said a word about his pup. He told himself he was fortunate in that too. His eyes stung. Jon rubbed at them savagely, cursing the smoke. He swallowed another gulp of wine and watched his direwolf devour the chicken. Dogs moved between the tables, trailing after the serving girls. One of them, a black mongrel bitch with long yellow eyes, caught a scent of the chicken. She stopped and edged under the bench to get a share. Jon watched the confrontation. The bitch growled low in her throat and moved closer. Ghost looked up, silent, and fixed the dog with those hot red eyes. The bitch snapped an angry challenge. She was three times the size of the direwolf pup. Ghost did not move. He stood over his prize and opened his mouth, baring his fangs. The bitch tensed, barked again, then thought better of this fight. She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride. Ghost went back to his meal. Jon grinned and reached under the table to ruffle the shaggy white fur. The direwolf looked up at him, nipped gently at his hand, then went back to eating.

Jon I, AGOT

It's interesting that GRRM would dedicate several paragraphs to a seemingly unimportant exchange between a boy, his wolf, and an unfriendly third party. But there's just something about this passage that has continued to nag at me for years since I first read it because, considering how heavy handed GRRM was with the foreshadowing in AGOT, this feels important.

Jon is sitting at table full of squires - aka would be knights. We don't really know who they are or what families they belong to, but it's safe to assume that they come from a certain level of privilege; this is considering the fact that it cannot be financially easy to be a squire. And these boys already have a slew of tales detailing all their previous knightly exploits regarding "battle and bedding and the hunt" which suggests that they have some capital. So you have boys who will soon be men. And they will, presumably, become men of some power.

These lads eat their fill of the chicken until only half remains, which Jon then gives to Ghost. The direwolf's name is not so important here but what he represents is. Throughout the series, we're told that Ghost is reminiscent of the weirwood trees (because of his red eyes and white fur). He's stated to be of and from the Old Gods and since he's a personification of the weirwoods, he might as well be one of them. It's almost as if Jon is presenting whatever is left on the table to the Old Gods (Ghost). He lets them devour his offerings while he silently watches. And the motif of watching is so interesting here because it's kind of like Jon takes on a stewardship role - to watch over land/people/etc. He oversees Ghost eating the chicken, so he's overseeing whatever has been given to the Old Gods. This is not new imagery to his arc. As a brother of the Night's Watch and eventually its leader, we have several instances where he leads people to adopting the Old Gods in some fashion. In ADWD, several recruits swear their vows to the Old Gods while he watches on as their Lord Commander. The Old Gods are also primarily of the North and we're told that Jon has more of the north in him than his brothers; interesting that this also includes Bran. So perhaps whatever is being offered to the Old Gods relates to the North.

We must also note that Jon initially thinks to give only a small portion, a leg, before pivoting and providing the entire thing. It feels to me a bit like the process of carving up a kingdom or something similar. The lords (represented by the squires) take what they want and leave aside what they don't; or perhaps they have eaten to their fill and can take no more. Then when his time comes, Jon first considers a small piece of land/group of people before eventually absorbing all of whatever is left behind. The concept of carving up a kingdom rings harder considering that we have several callbacks to the ideals of kingship in this chapter. Robert, Jaime, Tyrion, and even Mance though we don't know it yet, all play into this. And then there's the aspect of Jon letting the chicken slip between his legs which evokes birth/fatherhood, a very curious choice when GRRM could've just had Jon place the chicken on the floor. So land/people are carved up and Jon then uses whatever is left to birth his own type of kingdom. And this kingdom is one for the Old Gods.

This also touches on something that has been quite prevalent throughout Jon's arc. It's the concept of accepting the "others" or "those left over" who live apart from the accepted social norms. Arya (a tomboy), Sam (a gender non-confirming boy), the Night's Watch (criminals, extra sons, and men who have no future left or place to go), and even the wildlings are all examples of this. And Jon takes on a leadership/paternal role to every single one of them. He looks after them as a leader would/should. Sometimes, in the case of Arya and the wildlings, he's equated to a king. He's a steward/shepherd/king. There's messianic undertones to this:

Come unto me, all you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30).

If you're familiar with Judeo-Christian tradition, you'll know that Jesus is often personified as one who spent the majority his time among the outcasts. The idea is that he came to save them too and that anew kingdom (or new earth depending on your translation) would spring up after the end of the world where he would forever rule as king; which presents the idea of a final king after the earthly ones are done away with. Now GRRM isn't so heavy handed with Christian allusions as other authors out there, but he does have a Catholic background and Jon is so overtly a Jesus figure. And in Revelation, Jesus is king and god at the very end....

One last thing: the mention of the mongrel who challenges Jon has always been rather interesting but confusing to me. A mongrel doesn't really relate to one specific type of dog. But it's interesting that Jon notes several roaming about where he is. They follow the serving girls who carry the food to be offered. Mongrels are used to describe antagonist/villainous groups in ASOIAF. Sometimes, they're used to describe slavers in Essos. But what's interesting is that most of the time, they're used to describe Euron's Ironborn especially in Victorian's POV. So I don't think the mongrel who challenges Ghost is a supernatural threat of death (i.e., the Others) but rather a human one. They represent those who are called to the scene once the lords have finished playing their games. It almost feels like a feast for (carrion) crows....

But it doesn't really matter because this mongrel isn't much of a challenge for Ghost. Though the mongrel is much larger, the direwolf is able to fend her off very effortlessly. Given that "mongrel" is used to describe Ironborn raiders, could this exchange between Ghost and the mongrel point to reavers or sea raiders who rise and fail challenge Jon kingdom? There is a historical King Jon Stark who did this....

When sea raiders landed in the east, Jon drove them out and built a castle, the Wolf's Den, at the mouth of the White Knife, so as to be able to defend the mouth of the river.[1][2] His son, Rickard, followed him on the throne and annexed the Neck to the north.

ref.

So this might shed some light not only on Jon's already published arc, but also on what we can expect in the future. We have some foreshadowing through Jon's ADWD dream that he will not only rise with the dawn (thereby live through the Long Night), but will be in a position to lead people (wildings in that chapter) to a new peace after a hard fought war. Also remember that the wildlings, rather enthusiastically, swear oaths to him as if swearing oaths to their king. In this instance, the supernatural (a dream of the war for the dawn) is followed by the natural/human. So perhaps this particular passage (and Jon's dream) can be used to predict that Jon comes out on top, and quite effortlessly too, as a leader. And he becomes a leader who rules by association with the Old Gods; or rules a kingdom for them.

To end, I think it's of note that this passage immediately precedes Jon's conversation with Benjen where he voices his desire to go out on his own - the hero's call to action. This is the adventure that's going to kickstart his growth as a man, warrior and most importantly, a leader. So it looks like before we even began, GRRM telegraphed how it would all end in just three short paragraphs.

#jon snow #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #ghost the direwolf #some random extra thoughts:#the aspect of fatherhood is closely tied to kingship as kings are often regarded to be the fathers of their nations #so we might see a parallel where jon-like dany-doesn't have children of his own physical body #but rather rules a kingdom as its symbolic father #think of how odin-a mythical parallel for jon-is called the all father because he is father to all men/lands #also it's interesting to me how kingship is a theme but it's almost like the actual theme is that of kings coming of going #but jon remaining and prevailing above all #we have robert who is a disappointing/bad king and his rule doesn't last very long and neither will his dynasty #jaime looks like a king and even if grrm didn't go through with his original ideas he was never meant to rule for long #in the new story jaime is symbolic of rhaegar a would be king whose time comes and goes leaving jon to pick up the pieces #then tyrion who stands “as tall as a king” but not quite! he still is not as tall as jon and tyrion also says in a later chapter #that soon he'll be even shorter than ghost + tyrion wasn't hand for long #mance who is hidden also has his time as king but it's very short lived and jon later absorbs his kingdom to make his own #so we have the wolf devouring the “left behinds” in a way but the interesting thing is this happens in reverse doesn't it #might Jon's new kingdom not only be made of remnants of the nw and wildlings but also have those left behind from the rest of the 7k?#it's possible since jojen tells us that once night comes all cloaks become black 🙂#so yeah this is all just more jon endgame king of winter/a new north propaganda lmaoooo

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