#greek myths discourse
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You Know...?
Imagine being a teenager living on an island where a idiot king like Polydectes forcefully tries to marry your mother Danaë and making impossible the live of your adoptive parents unless you accomplish a series of task that involve your death; with a sheer of luck you get rid of Medusa but then you have to rescue a princess whose mother is a pain in the ass from a sea monster, later, fighting the consort of said princess who doesn't give two shits about the well-being of Andromeda, and then rescuing your mother from Polydectes and thanking your adoptive parents with a powerful gesture of giving to them the crown of the island for the Tumblrinas to imagine you as a raging asshole and wanting you dead because D A D D Y Ovid and your pop mythology authors are always right.
What a bummer.
#greek mythology#greek gods#greek myths#perseus andromeda#perseus doesn't deserve this#danaë#greek myths discourse#greek mythology discourse#greek mythology adaptations#greek myths memes#incorrect greek mythology memes#Ani writes#The amount of shit takes I've seen regarding the demonization of folklore figures is unironically smooth brain#Oh#but Hades have a pass because he's “le darky uwu”#miss me with that shit fam#Be more original#I beg you#Thanks#I'm on my grindset#Perseus#ani rambles#For the record#this is not me “whitewashing” Perseus#his young energy and impulsive attitude are one of his main defects#and still he has a huge heart toward his family and girlfriend#“umm actually if you read Ovid chapter 4 🤓☝🏻”#cool now read Hesiod and Homer and see how your shit takes fall apart on real time lmao#ok Im calm now
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Genuinely confused as to how so much of the fandom watched the first 2 CR campaigns and Calamity and yet still ended up in a “Ludinus is right let’s kill all the gods” position. Like it’s baffling to me how much content/context people have just decided to completely forget? We had 2 full campaigns of very positive interactions with the gods and the moment there’s some hypothetical and interesting musing and speculation about their roles in the world from a more disconnected place we’re just throwing that out the window?*
Tbh the number of people who watched episode 4 of Calamity and still saw Asmodeus as sympathetic or having a legitimate point is unsettling to me, but while that’s a related issue it’s not quite the same conversation.
But like legitimately how did we so quickly make a hard turn from “The Stormlord teaches his barbarians to use the power of friendship, he’s a funny kindergarten teacher” memes to…this.
*(This is not, btw a comment on the characters having philosophical debates in-world because I think those are interesting and on-theme for the campaign and are also nearly always concluding with “our personal relationship to individual gods and feelings about them are irrelevant actually, the people trying to destroy them are doing wider harm and are in the wrong and must be stopped.” I’m actually loving the engagement with this by the characters in-universe but the fandom is exhausting me.)
#people stop engaging with all fantasy religion like it’s the same as bigoted evangelical American Christianity challenge#oh also the ‘the gods are colonial invaders’ take is also super weird to me because that’s applying recent human history to what is#basically standard like Greek or Roman creation myth?#like a ton of European pagan lore has a ‘the gods we worship came from afar and tamed the wilds of nature’ narrative#it is a metaphor#cr discourse#legit saw someone this morning confidently posting ‘well Ludinus just is right though!’ and I wanted to close down the whole internet#critical role
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We all know and love zutara's Hades & Persephone parallels. Complimentary opposites constantly being misunderstood as a captor/victim- badboy/goodgirl- edgy/sunshine trope despite significant nuances; being torn between familial and spousal devotion; ruling over their kingdom as equally powerful forces of nature... Good good stuff.
But may I humbly suggest that we have been woefully neglecting the sheer dramatic potential of taang x Eros & Psyche.
#lonely rich girl reduced to the sum of her physical traits x flighty boy of god-like power c'mon ppl#i feel there is something to be said here#the emphasis on sight and knowing somebody by their soul instead of their face??#turns out there's some animosity between H&P and E&P fans that I was not aware of until today#like yeah there's lots of bad takes on H&P floating around and E&P deserves more attention#but there are literally two cakes ppl#stop pitting two of the only functional marriages in this mythos against eachother!#it's literally mythology there is no 'canon' stop being annoying#zutara#taang#my posts#atla#other thought im chewing on is which mythological love story works for sukka??#Ariadne and Dionysus maybe??#OOOOOr Atalanta and Hippomenes?!?!#was this an excuse to get out my thoughts on greek mythology discourse? maybe#eros and psyche has been my favourite greek myth for nearly the last decade and i need ppl to know#fr context i highly recommend the overly sarcastic productions videos on yt!#zuko x katara#toph x aang#in this house we love Hades & Persephone and Eros & Psyche equally thank you very much
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I was reading discourse on achilles yesterday and I'm still thinking about some people calling him a r*pist and others saying that other books they've read that are from a woman's perspective completely shifted the perception they have of TSOA's Achilles. And to me that makes little to no sense.
Here's what I come from: Achilles is a character from the Illiad, and the poem itself is pretty much fanfiction. I mean, the person and warrior that Achilles is based on probably existed, and it might have been called Achilles even, but i think we all agree that the rest is dubious.
Since the illiad is like the OG story, people tend to look at it as if it's canon and we'll go with that logic. You have the canon work and poets go off on their own versions of these characters writing tragedies, more epics, thesis, all sorts of stuff, and it goes on for centuries until we reach The song of Achilles and Percy Jackson and all the other 100s retellings coming out which are fanfiction of fanfiction.
And you're letting one fanfiction distort another fanfiction? It's bonkers to me because as someone who has to read the classics and grew up on fanfiction, I don't see that happening elsewhere. Between academics, if we're discussing a myth, we mention the different versions, and we can choose one to go on from, sure. But even so, I never saw someone sound so affected by different perspectives on the same character in class.
And if we're talking on the world of street fanfiction, I most definitely don't find people going "Oh this fanfiction of hermione betraying the order and marrying voldmort changed my perspective of Harry Potter's hermione" you know? -- if that sounds like a stupid example, it's because it is. It's just to show that my whole point is that it's insane to me to let a book ruin another book when the authors are creating different versions of the same characters, which basically turns them into different characters with the same names. Especially since you know, it's all made up. And this isn't real criticism to the people forming their opinions or the authors, respect to all of them.
But it’s a little maddening watching people roll into arguments to discuss what piece of fiction is more real and relevant when they're all in the same level of glorified AO3 works.
I hope this makes sense to someone else
#greek myth retellings#classics#greek mythology#tsoa#tsoa achilles#ancient greek literature#fanfiction#achilles discourse#patrochilles#mention of abuse#literature#mine#percy jackson#the trojans#trojan war#the illiad#odysseus#patroclus#history
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It’s amusing to me how ppl say it’s “unrealistic” that disabled ppl exist in fantasy. Meanwhile the ancient Greeks (who were violently ableist mind you) didn’t find it unrealistic that Hephaestus as disabled (wether by birth or injury) not a single source states Apollo heals him or anything like that, he’s allowed to exist as he is, even having epithets of his disability. They had no issue viewing a literal deity as disabled but noooo you can’t have your dnd character use a wheelchair that’s just unrealistic!!!
#Twitter discourse man…#h*tler particles all over that damn app#but especially now that the topic of disability in fantasy is brought up#greek mythology#ancient greek mythology#greek pantheon#greek god#greek myths#hephaestus greek mythology#hephastios#hephaestus god#hephaestus#hephaistos
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[Creator] writing a story based on a myth: Hey this is based on a myth but is my own take, I'm not trying to adapt it or anything.
Assholes on the internet: TOP 10 WORST DEPICTION OF THIS MYTH -> Number one, Story by [Creator]... clearly they don't understand the source material *scoff*
#gil talks#greek myth fandom truly takes it too far#if i see discourse about certain stories im blocking on sight
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I've just binged read Lore Olympus and it's been really delightful story. It's nothing too deep its not a masterpiece but I have weakness for slow burn romantic drama in interesting fantasy setting.
What I've been suprised though is how much hate this webtoon is getting? It's fascinating how much hate does small independent creators get for you know creating literally anything? The story is not perfect and if I wanted to over analyse it of course I could name quite a few things that are or could be viewed as problematic but overall it is interesting take of Greek mythology with lots of fascinating and flawed characters with some good messages about healthy relationships, communication and dealing with trauma.
From all the many things I've seen people to call problematic for no reason this is one of the least problematic one? I just really wonder what kind of media do theses people usually engage with?
#lore olympus#anti lore olympus#Anyway I've been having fun reading all the Lore Olympus discourse#Anyway if you want to read some Hades and persephone retelling in very fanfictionlike tone I recommend#But again don't expect anything too deep or too accurate to any of the original Greek myths#Anyway the hate against this series just suprised me enough that I could not resist to post my opinion on it#mEye post
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Bit of a random side note but personally don't love using gay as an umbrella term, I think queer is more open. But that might just be me. I agree that we shouldn't be assigning gods sexualities.
Totally hear that! I suppose it does depend on the person.
I use “queer”, personally, but often refer to myself or other mono-homo-attracted people as “gay”. For example, as a lesbian, I am often labeled as “gay”, in short. It all depends on comfort!
But yes! I see a lot of discourse on if Apollo was pansexual or bisexual, or if Athena was aromantic, or if Artemis was a lesbian, and at some point, it simply gets confusing. The gods never labeled themselves, and did as (and who) they pleased. Who is to say what they were/are?
Labels in general, IMO, should one day fizzle out so we may simply be an Us, and not have to divide ourselves based on differences. Like who you like, do who you do, and let that be enough. That mindset has been fed into the concept of the gods, for me.
Thank you for submitting! I adore hearing your thoughts!
#greek mythology#greek myth#mythology#sexuality#discourse#greek gods#greek goddess#greek pantheon#the olympians#mount olympus#greek mythos#ancient greece#hellenism#hellenic polytheism
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thinking abt how to write Eos and Tithonus romance......bc Tithonus is a black man, this a depiction of their son Memnon i love this art btw how he s gazing at sunrise, as a son of Dawn
um so Eos is white.. well mediterranean or greek..or anatolian at best. Maybe minoan origins (she s a titan goddess but i mean in looks)
Her mother, Theia is very much against this marriage bc she dislikes humans (in my version) but i realized as she s also white she will come across racist 😳 maybe i will change things a bit....
#greek mythology#greek myth retellings#memnon#tithonus#eos#oc: eos#oc: theia#oc: memnon#oc: tithonus#honestly theia n tithonus will turn out to be similar which ia why they never get along#also there s Theia s.....ideas abt mortals#su.txt#thinking abt the discourse™
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Yeah now tell me again that Odysseus didn’t have concubines because he is a precious flawless cinnamon roll who dOesnt chEat UwU🌸💖✨ but Agamemnon is worst character ever existing. Hope someday you can read and enjoy Greek mythology on its historical context rather than twisting it and modifying it for your own comfort. Also… dude, Odysseus and Agamemnon WERE FRIENDS. You can’t like Odysseus and ignore their friendship.
#the double standards with the Odysseus discourse are terrible#stop woobifying Odysseus because you can’t set aside your modern standards#what makes Odysseus cool is that he is flawed!#stop erasing his flaws because you can’t take them#stop sanitizing greek myths because you can’t handle context#not speaking of the callioso odysseus thing though#but the fact that people hate Agamemnon for X reasons and then they excuse those reasons in Odysseus#you either condemn everyone or you don’t#if your moral and ethics depend on who is your favorite you’re super wrong.#tw negative
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The bull myth
I am sorry for bringing up the bull skin again, but the history/ archeology nerd part of me is crying a bit at some of the inaccuracies regarding the myth/legend and the origin that has popped up in the discussion.
I am in no way an expert. This is merley what I have been able to find within a few hours of research so if you have any corrections or links to sources discussing the topic they are more than welcome, as I am very eager to learn more. Unfortunately I have also had quite a few run in with paywalls when it comes to academic publications.
Apologies for funky grammar and spelling errors, English is not my native language.
Warning for discussion of tourture device.
Absolutely no salt to anyone, information and knowledge change all the time and its never easy to know what is ‘’true’’ (In the case of archeology what are the most likely scenarios, based on material findings and the current ideology of how they should be interpreted. Especially interpretations are ever changing)
So to start off with the part that inspired this.
The time period.
In the post first touching upon the issue with the skin, on the Flameforger's announcement thread, the Brazen bull (In game skin name now Forged automaton) is referred to as a medieval tourture device. So far I have been unable to find a single text mentioning the brazen bull in medieval times. A few mentions of usage during ancient Rome, but all without sources to back them up.
The time period that I have seen mentioned in most texts credits its creation to somewhere before 450 BC in ancient Greece, this being around 1000 years (depending on where in Europe you are) before medieval times.
Myth or truth
So this just might be because of English being my secondary language, there might have been something I missed. But I feel like I have seen people stating this as a fact that they learned in history, that it actually existed.
I have been unable to find a single piece of text referencing an actual material finding of any brazen bulls.
Sensationall sells. Judging from how far the myth has spread online I feel like it is justified to say that it's already quite famous, and should a find be made the media coverage would likely be huge. Both as the find itself would be physically quite extrordinary and from one of the most popular time periods to study, when it comes to European history. As well as with the myth already sourounding it being so gruesome.
But as it stands, while I am able to find loads of both academic publications/papers and popular culture (articles, youtube videos etc) referencing or telling the myth of the brazen bull, not a single one seems to mention a find of a brazen bull being made.
While myths can contain grains of truth, the myth of the brazen bull seems to have gone through quite a few retellings. It has been mentioned that the myth might have served as propaganda around the time when it first appeared and there is a huge problem with actually verifying what, if anything, is the truth.
To sum it up I have so far ben unable to find anything to suport the brazen bull being anything more than a myth.
To anyone that made it this far thank you.
It is getting quite late so I will have to cut my ramblings short here.
I am very tempted to return to this topic with a better written text when it is not the middle of the night and I have had the time to read and compile more academic literature. There seems to be a lot of interesting stuff that popculture intrpretations miss.
For now links to some of the stuff that I did read in part or full within the limited time. I apologize for how few there are as parts of what I wrote was more taken from what was not presented in the material that I found.
https://www.greecehighdefinition.com/blog/facts-about-the-brazen-bull (click baity title but summed up the main points of the myth that seems to pop up, lacks sources)
https://arkeonews.net/the-worst-torture-device-in-history-brazen-bull/ (also sums up the main points of what i found, lacks sources)
https://www.um.edu.mt/library/oar/handle/123456789/39415 (while the letters the text discusses are found to not be authentic I found it to be a good example of how the myth has been retold and the scraps of truth it may or may not hold)
#flight rising#flight rising discourse#mythology#legend#brazen bull#greek mythology#ancient greece#torture device#myth
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Folks here trying to clean Hades's image of constant demonization because "He's not like that in myth 😭" but when they bump onto the teenager Perseus trying to save his mother suddenly "He's unredeemable because he slew girlboss™ Medusa although he never interacted with her before and by extension he and Andromeda should suffer all the retribution from us 😡"
#greek gods#greek mythology#greek myths#greek myths discourse#perseus#andromeda#medusa#ovid#hesiod#classical mythology#greek and roman classics#zeus
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I have felt INSANE for hating m*deline miller's retellings and it's been so cathartic to come across your blog and criticisms of her work because I, too, share the same opinions as you! I was low-key hoping she'd finally leave the myths alone when she announced that Shakespearean retelling, but it seems she's hell bent on building her entire career off of mediocre (dare I say unnecessary) retellings of the Greek myths. As always, I look forward to more of your literary criticism!
she's doing a shakespeare retelling? okay well i will have to do some googling
i'm glad you're enjoying the blog!! i worry that i get too fixated on criticism sometimes and specifically madeline miller but at this point that's probably what people are following us for anyway. but i do also think it's really important to look at the stuff that gets popular and ask why and whether it's actually any good/what its shortcomings might be
#mod felix#madeline miller discourse#every day i get closer to ending every post with ceterum censeo read the just city#like it's the blog title of course but J:KF:JKA:KF#me hiding under a bridge like. psst. you want an actually good story based in greek myth and literature and philosophy
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Do you perchance have any Greek mythology hot takes? Or norse for that matter?
For the mythology itself? Not really, I think I'm pretty basic in my opinions other than having random thoughts like "Medusa/Galatea OTP <3" and running with that. Artemis is my favorite god though, for the record. I vibe with her. Who doesn't want to live with nymphs in the woods.
I think it's really interesting how, in part because of English and French fascination with Greek myths, when you're engaging with this stuff you're engaging with partly with symbols people have wrestled with and reinterpreted for centuries across so many cultures and wrapped their own issues and anxieties in. I think that kind of gets missed in discussing the current trend. Reckoning with, say, Circe isn't about reckoning with just the original myth itself, but how so many future scholars and stuff engaged with her as a horrifying figure that robbed men of their power. She has been embedded in so many places, and that stuff does send out ripples. These things were never isolated.
I am definitely not as familiar with Norse mythology beyond a few scattered myths I've read (I love the one where Thor gets really competitive and unknowingly drinks the sea) and essential knowledge like "Loki fucked a horse and then gave birth to a horse". Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology is in the writing center I work at though, and I've been wanting to read that during a slow day to get a foothold.
#also thor comics but i don't think that's reliable#i did get into greek myth through wonder woman though!#you wanna talk about feminist retellings lol#she belongs in the discourse#ask nev
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Is this the year I finally get my shit together and write that long winded post about Greek mythology and interpreting it? Who knows
#I have so many thoughts and I hate seeing so much Greek mythology discourse on tumblr especially from people who either haven’t studied it a#whole lot or who aren’t Greek themselves. or alternately they are Greek but they don’t actually research it as much and just whine stuff abo#about ‘NOOO MY CULTURE DONT TOUCH IT NOOO IM RIGHT AND YOURE WRONG’#the tldr is so many of you are thinking way too hard about myths. bb calm down. different interpretations and extrapolations are ok and not#not evil or black and white on what happened or didn’t happen
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I don't understand people who get up in arms over "misinterpreting" greek myths
#I usually avoid swinging bats at the discourse nest#what I don't get is that the 'true' version is a complete understanding of greek society in the years 800-500BC#so this understanding can't be the first thing they know about greek myths#and the first thing is where I would expect the emotional attachment to be#unless you have emotional fondness for your ivory tower but these people portray themselves as rustic guardians of the people's knowledge#not to knock ivory towers to be clear
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