#gale at the end of the game for some reason: you just don't want me to succeed...I'm also doing this to get my ex's attention btw
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wow this game is so immersive, I had a relationship just like this in real life except it was being in a shitty band instead of divine ascension
#bg3 spoilers#baldur's gate 3 spoilers#this upset me so bad lmfao like it soured my entire game tbh!!!#it seems like there's one specific dialogue option pre mystra meeting that determines your ending??#even though they give you a whole scene before the final battle where you can dissuade him from trying to become a god#my character: that sounds evil. you should not do that.#gale: you're right :)#gale at the end of the game for some reason: you just don't want me to succeed...I'm also doing this to get my ex's attention btw#I am making a silly joke by saying it's like a previous relationship but the more I think about it.........#it really is similar.........
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So, after finishing Gale's origin, I think I'd play Astarion's. Don’t get me wrong, but it’s interesting for me to watch the romance with Gale from Astarion's POV, from the very beginning to the very end, because after reading some fics, I realized that I had never seen such a plot before. I mean falling in love with Gale right away, and not after all the events are over. That would be an amazing slowburn.
What do I mean, you ask? I noticed that when people write about this couple, it often comes up like this: Astarion is usually in a relationship with Tav, but when he/she/they reject him (remember the opportunity to remain friends with him, right?), Gail, according to the plot, usually invites Astarion to settle down in his tower and feelings arise later. Even if they flirted with each other before.
And although such stories are well written and interesting to read, I can’t help but feel that there’s a certain… wrongness in such a relationship? I mean, Astarion gets everything right away without doing much, home, a handsome lover who takes care of him and will do anything for him, yet Astarion himself does nothing to get anything of these after the game ends.
People usually justify this by saying that he has already suffered enough and deserves all the best. And I agree that yes, he really deserves it. However, I believe that in this case he achieved nothing on his own. He saved the world, yes, he killd his master, yes, but still... it happens when he has his friends around who would support him and a lover who he seduces for this particular purpose.
Of course, by this point he may already be in a full-fledged relationship, but it all started with a specific goal, right? And don’t think I hate him, I don’t, as I don't blame him for anything, anyone in his place would do everything to get at least some protection and hope for something better. I don’t know if I can explain what I mean in a best way, but I'll try.
Astarion simply moves in stories from under the protection of one lover to another. And usually in such cases, Gale insists that Astarion doesn’t owe him anything… and here I also agree, but in this case the question is: what did Astarion himself do to deserve all of this? Past suffering, it seems to me, is not a sufficient reason to give him everything at once and it doesn't mean he has to suffer more or anything. That is, as soon as Tav breaks up with him (or he with Tav), Astarion falls in love with the one who turned out to be as kind, more generous, who never demands anything in return. And there is, it seems to me, something not quite right in this.
What am I getting at? I would like to see Astarion's story, from a POV of a person who undergoes development, not just getting everything the best as a reward for his suffering. For example, I would like to watch the story from his point of view, when he falls in love with Gale, and for the sake of this love he begins to change, fight his traumas, outgrow them, because he realizes that, perhaps, for the first time in his life, he has fallen so deeply in love.
Without a relationship with Tav (I don’t like it at all when Tav is in the plot, they seem too unnecessary), but independently decided to change. And I want to say right away that by the word “change” I don’t mean anything bad, since he still changes when the player has a romance or friendship with him.
But for me, for example, it would be interesting to observe these changes, this growth, the struggle with traumas because of his love for Gale. Because there is someon who he cares about, not just about himself.
Let's be honest, Astarion is more a taker, Gale is a giver. Sometimes such relationships work but not always. Some people love to give, some people prefer to take. But I do not think it would work for them.
I see them as equals. Or at least are trying to be.
And yes, it can be love from the first sight (why not?), or the relationship can begin quite like in canon: with manipulation and seduction (tho I've never seen a fic in which Astarion falls in love right away), but then the realization comes that this is not just a hook-up that means nothing, but a connection that means, and not just to get someone as an ally who would help kill Cassador (after all, you can kill him simply by being friends with Astarion).
Although love at first sight from Astarion's perspective would be quite interesting, since Gale does not seem at all like a person who is easily manipulated and seduced.
There is something incredibly attractive about experiencing the whole story of this love from beginning to end (and despite the slowdown, they can still sleep with each other), and only then, when the final battle is over, they can go to Gale’s home together , but not because Astarion has nowhere to go and he again risks being left alone, but because by that time he and Gale will already be in love and confess their feelings to each other (I think it will be even more interesting to watch from Astarion's POV), and therefore they will no longer imagine their life without each other.
It will all look even tastier if it all happens long before the final battle, because Astarion will already have something to lose.
I want Astarion to try as hard on the relationship as Gale usually tries in fanfiction to heal his injuries. But I have almost never come across stories where they both worked on the relationship and healed each other equally. In most stories, unfortunately, Astarion gets much more, with almost no effort (we are not to talk about his past suffering), and this is just frustrating, as if he is not able to build his happiness on his own.
Someone may mention his traumas again and I understand perfectly well that not everyone can overcome their nightmares alone. But that’s why I mentioned that I would like to see how both work on relationships. In the game, Astarion is the one who takes, and Gale is more the one who gives (which I've already mentioned), but I would like to see equality, so that both give and take equally. And from Astarion's perspective, this would be incredibly interesting to watch, mainly precisely because he is the one who takes, he isn't used to give, but for his beloved, at least when he realizes he's in love, he would want to do more. To be more than just a taker.
You don't have to agree with me. But this is how I would like their relationship to be.
Oh, one more thing
I see Astarion as someone who tops, I do not mind switching, but top Astarion and bottom Gale sounds nice♡( ◡‿◡ )
#bg3#baldur's gate 3#bg3 gale#astarion#astarion ancunin#gale of waterdeep#gale dekarios#astarion x gale#bloodweave
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aevallare's bg3 masterlist wahoo
what's up. i'm aevallare. you might know me as an idiot. here are some of my links.
ao3 || patreon || carrd
here are my bg3 fics beneath the read more. these are all available on my ao3, linked above. sorry about the white boy of the century.
power decides (conscript 38/astarion)
gossamer (ongoing) - post-game. previously unromanced ascendant astarion. changeling tav.
Her eyes flicker from brown to blue.
"Oh, Astarion. Why do you feel the need to control something you already own?"
we can live forever if you've got the time (auri/astarion)
kindred (ongoing) - the og. the flagship. bg3, the remix.
auri knows people, and that's how she can tell; astarion is deeply, deeply fucked up.
pour one out (ongoing) - modern reincarnation au.
astarion's immortal. auri is decidedly not. but she's always had a way of doing the impossible.
inevitable (complete, 2102 words) - pwp two-shot. tadpole phone sex.
if she closes her eyes, she’s almost sitting in his lap again.
vow (complete, 5217 words) - pwp one-shot. menstruation kink.
when she’d helped astarion ascend, it had seemed like the right choice for a multitude of reasons.
excuses (complete, 4424 words) - pwp one-shot. sex pollen.
“Astarion, please.” Again, Auri begs. “Something was wrong with that meat I ate. It feels infernal. Everything’s so warm. I can't–”
infinite duress (complete, 2572 words) - pwp one-shot. bratty switch fic.
Astarion’s often the one in charge, but he’s been known to press his luck on occasion. If the tadpole still connected them, he knows exactly what Auri would say as he steps closer to Halsin.
Brat.
honeysuckle and fresh meat (shadowheart/auri/astarion)
oneiric (complete, 7866 words) - pwp one-shot. sub!shadowheart + sub!astarion.
Shadowheart snorts. Auri can't stop thinking about what Astarion said in bed the other night. She says, “The problem is that I have trouble letting go of control with people that I don't trust. And people that I trust are few and far between.”
Astarion smirks. “Yes, I can see how that would be difficult. I tend to be the one doing the controlling, if we can call it that, but letting it go can be just as…” Astarion trails off as if searching for the perfect word. “Fulfilling.”
green-eyed (complete, 2427 words) - pwp one-shot. valentine's day cuckfic.
All sex before was mediocre compared to this. Shadowheart wants for nothing.
Well. Almost nothing.
verdant (aeva/halsin)
impractical (complete, 1200 words) - one-shot.
His savior was a half-drow, as he’d later learn, but there hadn’t been time to reprimand himself for his prejudices. She’d slain his captors with relative ease, assisted by a human warlock, a half-elf Sharran, and a raging tiefling, and when he’d said he couldn’t possibly leave this place without removing the goblin leaders from the equation, she’d tilted her head to the side.
“We disposed of them before we found you.”
adjustments (complete, 1011 words) - one-shot.
The Underdark is beautiful in its own way, but it’s difficult for Aeva to divorce its aesthetic from the realities of living there. She’d been forced to claw her way out from destitution so often that it might as well have torn the nails from her fingers, and if desperation was currency, she would have wanted for nothing.
vital (complete, 1384 words) - one-shot.
Halsin’s dangerous in an unusual way. Being near him makes Aeva feel secure, and that’s never ended pleasantly. A tenday ago, she would have ignored his question outright.
He doesn’t press her for anything else, and for some reason, that loosens Aeva’s lips more.
old habits (complete, 1545 words) - one-shot.
Death to slavers always. That much will never change.
faithless (wyll/nora/astarion)
acumen (complete, 984 words) - one-shot.
Wyll likes to believe that everyone is doing the best they can.
bluster (wisp/gale)
tailwind (complete, 1670 words) - one-shot.
Wisp is loud, obnoxious, and concerned with little but joy and adventure. Stealth eludes her entirely, she’s constantly talking about how she’d feel better if they were on a ship, she never stops talking about how much she misses sailing and the sea, and she’s purported to be a cleric, but Gale has yet to see anything holy about her.
assorted one-shots
hearth (complete, 602 words) - shadowheart/karlach one-shot.
It’s cold tonight. Baldur’s Gate buzzes in the distance, and it’s hard to say what waits for them there. They’ve all still got parasites in their heads, there are two Chosen left, and Shadowheart’s renounced the only thing she knows.
cursed (complete, 1124 words) - gale/astarion one-shot.
When Gale Dekarios was born, there were whispers that he was cursed.
hypotheticals (complete, 542 words) - wyll/astarion one-shot.
in another life, a lot of things could have been different.
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Turning Relationship Arcs into Plotlines
Most stories will feature a relationship arc as a key plotline. But in order for a relationship to be a plotline, it not only needs an arc, it needs a plot.
Showcasing an amusing friendship or a fiery rivalry, or throwing in a love triangle or family feud here and there doesn't make it a plotline any more than having an entertaining protagonist doing random things makes a plotline.
You can have ideas for a riveting relationship, but if it isn't arcing because of the story, it's probably just cleverly disguised "plot" filler.
We usually don't want a protagonist without an arc doing random things. That's not really the protagonist's story.
The same is true with relationships.
Now, real quick, not all relationships in a story will need a plot--that would be near impossible, overdramatic, and would read as soap opera.
This is one of the reasons why there is a difference between a relationship arc and a relationship plotline.
Recently I did an article on the four basic relationship arcs. For convenience here is a quick recap:
Positive Change Relationship Arc:
The characters start distant--they may be strangers or downright enemies--and grow closer in love and respect.
Ex. Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy, Mulder and Scully, Sulley and Boo
Positive Steadfast Relationship Arc:
The characters start close--already having some love and respect for each other--and have their relationship tested through the obstacles of the plot. Ultimately, they stand by one another at the end; often their love and respect grow by degree.
Ex. Frodo and Sam, Harry and Dumbledore (in book 7), Peter Parker and Mary Jane (depending on the rendition)
Negative Change Relationship Arc:
The characters start close with love and respect and are ultimately pulled apart and become distant, as strangers or enemies. They grow in dislike or disrespect for each other.
Ex. Anakin and Obi-wan (in Revenge of the Sith), Mike and Will (Stranger Things seasons 1 - 4), Katniss and Gale (in The Hunger Games).
Negative Steadfast Relationship Arc:
The characters start distant--as strangers or enemies--and might be pushed together through the plot, but ultimately won't stand by one another at the end. In the end, they are strangers or enemies. Often their dislike and disrespect will grow by degree.
Ex. Winston and Julia in 1984, Angier and Borden in The Prestige, Estella and the Baronness in Cruella
These are just basic relationship arcs and there is room for variations, so don't panic if yours doesn't fit any description perfectly. However, it should, more or less, be able to fit into one of them, which can be useful to get started.
Now we need to take some time to address plotlines, because how much you develop your relationship plotline will depend on how prominent it is. And the more prominent, the more it needs to be on the page. So hang with me as we cover some bases.
Relationship Plots for A Stories, B Stories, C Stories & More
Usually a relationship plotline is a key plotline, but where it fits in priority isn't the same for every story or even every genre.
Most stories, specifically long stories (a novel as opposed to a short story), will have at least three kinds of plotlines. The most popular combo is this: the protagonist's external journey, the protagonist's internal journey, and the protagonist's relationship journey (with the Influence Character). This is a great combo, because it has a broad conflict (the external journey), a deeply personal conflict (the internal journey), and something that fits between those (the relationship journey)--giving the story clear dimension.
However, with that said, you can create other combos as well. For example, sometimes there is a world/society plotline, and no internal journey. So while a relationship plotline is key to most stories, I'm not gonna say it's key for every single story (despite what some say in the community).
If you are reading this article, you obviously want to learn more about writing relationship plotlines. At this point, it's a good idea for us to take our usual pit stop and talk a little bit about terminology in the writing industry.
Some in the industry actually lump together the protagonist's internal and external journey and call the weave the "A Story," or the primary plot.
With this in mind, often the relationship plotline is considered the "B Story, " meaning it's the secondary plot that unfolds, more or less, alongside the A Story.
Some people in the community use the term "B Story" synonymously with "relationship plotline." In truth, not all B Stories are relationship plotlines, and not all relationship plotlines are B Stories. That's just what is most common.
In some narratives, the relationship journey is the A Story--the main plotline. This happens when the story is primarily about a relationship. The most obvious examples of this would come from the romance genre. Pride and Prejudice is primarily about Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy's relationship journey.
But this doesn't mean you have to write a romance novel to write a relationship A Story. In The Prestige, the whole story is driven by Angier and Borden trying to undo or outdo each other. The A Story is a relationship plotline about a negative relationship.
So there are a lot of options in regard to plotlines.
But whether the relationship journey is the A Story, B Story, C Story, or what have you, it still needs to have an arc and plot to be a Story. It's just that the less prominent the plotline, the less you need to develop it and show it on the page.
In contrast to a romance, The X-Files is more about the external journey and the internal journeys of each of the leads, than it is about Mulder and Scully's relationship. That doesn't mean their relationship journey isn't impactful (far from it). But less of that plotline makes up screen time . . . with the relationship arc stretched out over nearly a decade. If it had been the A Story, it wouldn't have been The X-Files, and it wouldn't have survived as perhaps the slowest burn in television.
Whether your characters' relationship journey is the A Story, B Story, C Story, or what have you, that's ultimately what we want: something impactful.
So let's dig into plot. . . .
Some of the problems that can come up with relationship plotlines stem from the writer not understanding that even though this journey appears quite different than the external or internal journeys, it still follows basic principles.
But if you don't write romance, this may be difficult to wrap your head around . . . because there are almost no resources to teach you how to do it!
People will mention relationship plotlines, but they'll be vague or general about it--or say it has to be a romance or that it must be a positive change relationship arc. It doesn't. But for this reason, this plotline has often felt vague to me, personally. If I'm not writing romance--what am I supposed to be doing here? And how?
Let's start with the basics and feed the relationship journey into them.
I already did a long and lengthy series on the principles of plot, so I won't be repeating the details of each element (nor will I be going through every element for this). This means if you are confused or need more information, you should look through the series, starting here.
Keep your relationship arc in mind as we go through the pieces, and soon it will become clearer and clearer how to write a relationship plot.
The Goal in Relationship Plots
Plot starts with a goal. This is because a goal provides context for plot. Until there is a goal, what happens doesn't really matter, since no one is trying to get anywhere. And the audience can't measure whether what happens is progress or a setback.
We know characters should have external, measurable goals. And even if they have abstract wants, they should manifest in concrete goals.
Not all characters keep the same goals for the whole story. In fact, some characters will have a different goal for each act (I'm looking at you, Star Wars IV: A New Hope). And some will have both an overarching goal and act-level goals inside it.
This can be applied to relationship plotlines. In fact, it's highly likely the relationship goal will change through the story (and often on the act level).
At the most basic, abstract level, there are only three goals your characters can have in a relationship, and they may not be the same as the other person's.
The 3 Basic Relationship Goals:
1. Draw closer and/or get along with this person
2. Push away and/or cause dysfunction with this person
3. Maintain the relationship as is
Worth noting is that the last one will likely turn into one of the other two, because something will disrupt "normal," and the character will either be trying to draw closer or push away in order to get "normal" back.
At this point, some of you may already be confused. My characters want to get along to get the plot goal, but they also hate each other and want to push each other away! you may be thinking.
Don't panic.
The relationship plotline is usually intimately woven with the external and internal plotlines.
Remember what I said earlier? It fits below the external plotline and above the internal plotline.
This means what happens externally will trickle down and complicate the relationship, while what happens internally will bubble up and complicate the relationship.
This is one of the reasons the relationship plotline can feel tricky and vague, especially if it's not the A Story.
Just focus on the relationship itself. Does the character want to draw closer to this person? Or does she want to be distant from this person? Or does she want to keep things the way they already are?
Relationship Goal Examples (Basic):
Elizabeth judges Mr. Darcy unfavorably--she wants to be distant from him through more than half the book.
Scully wants to get to know Mulder, despite his poor reputation in the FBI.
Sulley is afraid of Boo. He wants to send her away from him and Monstropolis.
Sam wants to follow, be near, and support Frodo.
Peter wants to be in a relationship with Mary Jane.
Will hopes to maintain a close bond with Mike . . . and maybe draw even closer.
While attracted to Julia, Winston thinks she's a spy and hates her (this one is a little more complicated, and that's okay).
Estella wants to work for and be like the Baroness.
Notice that the other person in the relationship may not have the same want. . . .
Mr. Darcy falls for and wants to marry Elizabeth.
Frodo doesn't want Sam to bear his burdens, so tries to create distance.
Mike isn't interested in maintaining a relationship with Will and is blind to Will's efforts (also a little more complicated)
Julia wants to be involved with Winston (which changes his relationship goal).
And sometimes the participants do have the same wants. . . .
Mary Jane wants to be close to Peter.
Despite being suspicious Scully is there to spy on him, Mulder is ultimately fine with opening up to her--after all, his purpose in life is to reveal the truth.
Angier and Borden are trying to push the other further away by outdoing each other and creating more dysfunction.
Gale and Katniss would prefer to be close (though at some parts, Katniss is only interested in maintenance)
As you can already see at the basic level, things aren't always simple, and again, wants can change, but we are just getting some basics down to build from.
You'll also notice that while the goals will play into how the relationship arcs on the page, they aren't determined by the relationship arc. Strangers can want to get close. Enemies may want to mend their ways. Friends may want to draw close or part ways. And each person may want something different.
The basic goals are the characters' desires. And the arc is what happens in reality.
Just as with external plotline goals, it's helpful if we get more concrete and specific. This will make the plotline stronger and allow the audience to better measure progress. So, consider, what does "success" in this relationship look like to the character? Darcy wedding Elizabeth? Boo being thrown back to where she came from? Mike accepting Will's gift and playing D&D with him? Winston and Julia having a secret rendezvous? Keeping Sam away from the Ring? Angier besting Borden in magic? Scully making sure Mulder makes it back in one piece to D.C. (and vice versa)?
It's important to realize that what success looks like may be influenced by the external and/or internal journeys. The external journey informs Scully what success in her relationship with Mulder looks like. It determines what Sulley's goal is for Boo. The internal journey informs Will what success looks like with Mike. It determines why Frodo wants to keep Sam away from the Ring.
So, look at each participant in the relationship--do they want to grow closer or apart? (Or maintain?) What does "success" look like in this relationship, to each participant?
The Antagonistic Force in Relationship Plots
The antagonistic force is a form of opposition. I emphasize "opposition" because the antagonistic force is something in the way of the goal.
We know what the characters want. And we know what success looks like.
What is keeping the characters from simply getting that? (Or, in some cases, maintaining that?)
That's the antagonistic force. And just like the goal, it doesn't need to be one thing, and it doesn't need to be the same thing throughout the whole relationship plotline. If you think of the antagonistic force as the obstacle in the way of or resistance to getting the goal, you'll have both a broader and more accurate understanding of what an antagonistic force really is. Or likely, forces.
For relationships, the antagonistic forces can come from several places.
The 3 Sources for Relationship Antagonists:
1. External: What's happening externally may trickle down and get in the way of the relationship goal. For example, two characters may wish to live their lives separately (or may even be enemies), but external circumstances force them together. This is common in the enemies to friends/lovers arc. In these situations, often there is a shared external plotline goal that the characters have to work together to achieve.
In contrast, you may have two characters who want to be close, but external forces are pulling them apart. In 1984, Winston and Julia want to be together in Acts II and III, but the Party wants them separated. You can see a similar thing in Romeo & Juliet.
And just as a note, even if the characters have different relationship goals, you can still have external antagonistic forces--it just gets a little more complex.
2. Within the Relationship: Antagonistic forces may come from the relationship itself. The characters may have opposing goals or methodologies or worldviews or mannerisms that clash.
Sam wants to be near Frodo. But Frodo tries to lose Sam. (Opposing goals.) Sam wants to ditch Smeagol, but Frodo wants to use him as a guide. (Opposing methods.) Untempted by and unexperienced with the Ring, Sam doesn't share compassion for Smeagol. Frodo, who suffers from both, pities him. (Opposing worldviews.)
Neither character is necessarily "good" or "bad" (though you can do that if you want). They're just different, and this creates obstacles.
It's usually very common for the protagonist and Influence Character to have opposing methodologies.
3. Internal: One or both participants may have internal struggles, flaws, or misbeliefs that bubble up into the relationship plotline.
In Sherlock, Sherlock's inability to be socially sensitive causes problems in all of his relationships. In Pride and Prejudice, it's pride and prejudice that often cause problems. Frodo's personal struggle with the Ring creates friction with Sam.
One familiar trope is that one character feels undeserving or unworthy of the other character, because of how he views himself--Edward does this sort of thing in Twilight.
Weaving All Three
Remember, just as the external and internal journeys influence each other, so do they influence the relationship plotline. When we weave three different plotlines, it can get complicated. Or perhaps more accurately said, complex.
For example, in The Hunger Games, one may argue that the antagonistic forces that ultimately drive Katniss and Gale apart come from all three places. The external plotline pulls them apart by not only creating literal distance, but emotional distance, as Katniss has to leave District 12 and pretend to be in love with Peeta.
Their relationship pulls them apart because they have different worldviews and methodologies. Gale wants to incite a revolution and overthrow the Capitol, whatever the cost. Katniss wants to survive and keep her loved ones safe.
In the internal sense, Katniss has so much going on inside her, that she doesn't have the time or wherewithal to focus on her relationship with Gale. And Gale is moving closer and closer to the anti-theme.
With that said, please don't give yourself "paralysis by analysis." You don't need to overthink the relationship plotline. The point is that you need antagonistic forces to create a relationship plotline. Those forces can come from any of those three places, or a combination of them. So if you need more (or don't have any), those are the areas to go looking. This can be especially helpful when both participants want the same "success" for the relationship--you'll need to look at external or internal obstacles.
It's Complicated
Certain setups are more complex, or at least more uncommon, than others. And I just want to acknowledge and illustrate that, so we don't get stuck thinking everything in writing needs to fit a specific mold.
In The Prestige, the A Story is a negative arc relationship between Angier and Borden. They don't want to be pals. Angier's goal is to undo Borden and best him in magic. This is informed by Angier's internal journey of obsessive revenge (also a negative arc). But Borden is also the antagonist--because he doesn't want to be undone and have his life ruined, and so fights back. They are the main obstacles for each other.
This is an atypical situation, but you'll see it has the same parts: a relationship goal and an antagonist, and of course, a relationship arc.
As Brandon Sanderson likes to say, as writers, we want to be chefs, not cooks. We want to understand the parts, and be able to arrange them in different ways to create the story we want--not follow the same recipe every time. The Prestige is a great example of that, in regard to relationship plotlines.
The Relationship Antagonist Simplified
For most stories, the antagonist will work like this:
If the character wants to draw closer, the antagonistic force is what's keeping them apart.
If the character wants to grow apart, the antagonistic force is what's pushing them closer.
If the character wants to maintain, then the antagonistic force is what's disrupting normal.
* Sometimes the antagonistic force is the other person in the relationship.
IMPORTANT: Beware of Weak Antagonistic Forces!
We've all seen relationship plotlines that made us roll our eyes, or worse, want to scratch out the writer's eyes. This is most obvious in sequels. It usually happens like this:
In the first installment, the writers create a positive change relationship arc, where the participants become best friends, found family, or significant others--and we all let out a satisfying sigh.
In the second installment, the writers don't know how else to arc a relationship, so they try to undo and redo what they already did.
It usually fails.
Other times the writers understand on some level they need to create a positive steadfast relationship arc, but don't know how to really do that, so they put together one that has about as much depth and emotion as a cardboard cut-out.
And finally, there is the relationship "plotline" that could be easily resolved by something that the characters seem too stupid to do, such as make a simple phone call.
These situations stem from the same problem: weak or unbelievable(derogatory) antagonistic forces.
If Sulley and Boo overcame all the adversity of Monsters Inc. and then we did a follow-up where they had an argument about bedtime, and we used that as a driving force to pull them apart (so we can push them back together again), it'd be stupid. The audience already watched them survive way worse. They know their bond is stronger than that.
Now, if the argument about bedtime was really subtext for deeper issues and those are going to be the driving force, and the issues are going to manifest in a lot of different ways, then maybe something like that would work.
Otherwise? The audience doesn't buy it.
The antagonist needs to be a real, powerful threat. If the characters already have a strong relationship that has been through the wringer, what could believably fray that? (And the answer can't be a simple misunderstanding.) It needs to be greater than what they've already overcome. Or, it needs to be different and just as difficult. Or, it needs to be long-lasting but still as significant. Look at the different places antagonistic forces can come from--that might help you find something you hadn't considered before. Or maybe, you need a combination of antagonistic forces to create a worthy threat.
Often(like I touched on above), rather than think of one thing or one moment that is causing problems in the relationship, it's better to find something abstract that manifests in different concrete ways. For example, in Pride and Prejudice, both pride and prejudice are abstract concepts, but they manifest concretely in different ways throughout the story to create problems. The issue isn't so much that the ladies have no one to dance with, and that Mr. Darcy should be dancing with one. The real underlying issue is the pride Mr. Darcy seems to have.
Whatever the story, it's helpful to remember that the antagonistic force should be big enough to test the characters' commitments to the relationship goal (which will lead them to either change the goal or hold steadfast to it). This can be particularly important for positive steadfast relationships. Sulley and Boo arguing about bedtime isn't a "test." It's a disagreement.
The Conflict in Relationship Plots
The relationship goal and the antagonistic force lead to conflict. These characters hate each other and want to be apart, but the external antagonist locks them together. . . . and when they finally decide they want to be together, the external antagonist yanks them apart. Or maybe one person wants to draw close and the other wants to push away. Or maybe they both want to be together, but one is crippled by a sense of unworthiness.
There are a lot of directions you can go with this, but I think you get the idea.
There shouldn't be an easy, foreseeable way to fix these situations--because the antagonist should be a real threat (see above). So we get conflict.
The more the characters want the relationship goal and the stronger the antagonist, the bigger the struggle. And struggle is often what creates a powerful arc. As the characters face worthy opposition in conflict, we illustrate how bad they want the relationship goal. We confront them with difficult situations--choices--that require sacrifice of one kind or another. How devoted are they to their relationship goal? What costs are they willing to pay? Is he willing to risk drowning to follow Frodo? Is she willing to sacrifice her career reputation and give up personal dreams to get her FBI partner back safely? Is he willing to risk torture and brainwashing at the hands of the Party to be with Julia?
How the characters choose to address the conflict will usually create the arc in the plotline. Ultimately, nothing stops Sam from helping Frodo--this leads to their positive relationship arc. We know, Sam is in it 100%. On the other hand, Katniss won't agree that sacrificing innocent people like Prim is worth a victory for the self, so she ends her relationship with Gale. This leads to their negative relationship arc. Notice, however, this doesn't mean Katniss is a "bad" person by any means. It simply illustrates that upholding the thematic argument means more to her than this relationship.
And never forget that other plotlines weave in. An external plotline victory may mean sacrificing a relationship goal. Or it may mean succeeding in the relationship enables success in the external goal. And internal victory may mean success or failure in a relationship goal. There are so many different combinations, I fear listing them may create more confusion rather than clarity.
But just to show how this can be done in an atypical way, in The Prestige, the relationship goal is to undo, best, and push away the other magician, who is resisting and fighting back (as the antagonist). This leads to powerful conflict. What is the character willing to do to succeed? Angier is ultimately willing to frame his enemy, get him hanged, steal away his daughter, and kill "himself" a hundred times to possibly succeed in this negative relationship arc. But he fails in an internal way: He's so obsessed with revenge, so unwilling to change internally, that he failed as a human being and missed out on developing new meaningful relationships. (. . . and this all starts to bleed into the want vs. need concept . . . . and I think I'll save that for another day, in regards to relationships (I promised not to get confusing)).
The point is the conflict creates struggles that show what the characters are willing or unwilling to do for the relationship goal, and their choices will ultimately arc the relationship in the plotline.
The Consequences in Relationship Plots
In order for there to be a strong plotline, there need to be consequences to the conflicts' outcomes. Otherwise, it's just conflict for the sake of conflict.
Now, with that said, conflict for the sake of conflict can sometimes work in relationships for things like banter and disagreements. Those can be effective and fun, but remember, they aren't what make up a strong relationship plotline. Don't confuse banter or disagreements as the sum of a relationship plotline. It may be part of a plotline--the banter may stem from antagonistic forces within the relationship that the characters need to overcome--but it's not the plotline itself. In order to be part of the plotline, it needs to have significant consequences, like any good conflict should have.
Plot isn't just random stuff strung together. It has a sense of cause and effect.
So, what do the characters have to gain (and/or lose) in overcoming the conflict? What do they have to lose (and/or gain) in being overcome by the conflict?
If we are strictly focused on the relationship plotline, this may seem rather simple, as it is often the relationship or relationship goal itself. If Elizabeth overcomes the obstacles between her and Mr. Darcy, they can get married. If she doesn't, she won't be with the person she loves. If Sherlock and John can work through their differences and struggles, they can be best friends. If Katniss and Gale can't, they will become strangers. If Angier succeeds, he successfully punishes Borden.
But ideally, the consequences will bleed into other plotlines. If Harry's relationship with Dumbledore is ruined, Harry won't continue to hunt for Horcruxes. In Death Note, if Light succeeds in besting L, he can continue his plans of exacting justice and creating a new world, where he is the leader.
Commonly, the relationship characters need to work together to reach the external goal. In Moana, Moana and Maui ultimately need each other to right the world--neither can do it alone. Frodo and Sam's relationship needs to work to bring the Ring to Mount Doom. Mulder can't succeed in uncovering the truth of government conspiracy and experimentation without Scully by his side.
And of course, it can bleed into the internal plotline. Once Winston betrays Julia, it means that the Party has successfully brainwashed him--he is no longer a free-thinker but part of mass psychosis.
Not only will the relationship likely affect the consequences of other plotlines, but the other plotlines will likely bring consequences into the relationship.
Just make sure the consequences are there, and that they are significant. They need to be important enough to shift the direction of the story. This will help the audience know why this relationship matters. And as a reminder . . .
Stakes = potential consequences (projecting cause and effect into the future)
Ramifications = actual consequences
Conflict in relationships without any outcomes isn't really a story.
A relationship plotline is meant to be a Story.
We'll delve more into relationship plots next time.
Related Articles
The 4 Basic Types of Relationship Arcs
The Primary Principles of Plot: Goal, Antagonist, Conflict, Consequences
Writing the Influence Character
What is a B Story? 6 Key Qualities of B Stories
Writing Relationships Readers can't Resist
How Plotlines Add Dimension
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Some of my favorite fics of Gale have him in a poly situation (like with Lae'zel and Shadowheart), but his canon reaction to Halsin's offer makes me wonder how you think he would realistically reach a point where he is more okay with poly? Since I love your meta/grasp on Gale, I thought I'd ask. :)
Hey anon! I'm so glad you like GaleZelHeart lol I love them very much.
I do think that honestly there is a lot to process when it comes to Gale and poly in canon and I do understand the canon reasons he's not up for it (I do love the idea that it's specifically Halsin he's intimidated by lol, he's so in control of himself etc.) To me, a lot of it feels like it's about timing and where he is as a person at the point of the game.
With Mystra, he knows he was never the only one, or that if he is he is still not an equal partner in their relationship, however you see that. When we meet him he is still in the stages of mourning that relationship. He's actively going through denial, anger, grief, acceptance through the relationship he has with the player character whoever they are - and if you don't romance him he's even slower to start to process his emotions around it. High int, low wis Gale in action!
To me, I think poly with Gale is really negotiable on a case-by-case basis. In my Tav run, they come to it like 20 years down the line. In the GaleZelHeart I write, it's act 3 of the game.
At the heart of it, I feel like the relationship where he falls in love in the game is the first real relationship he has had. I don't believe that Mystra is his only relationship ever, but I think she is the one that has dominated his adult life and has been his most significant relationship. I HC Gale as demisexual; I think he needs a really strong connection with somebody to pursue them. And he's so bruised from the Mystra fallout, mentally emotionally and literally physically bruised, and he needs the core of having a strong bond with a person to get through that.
But how does that work with my GaleZelHeart? Well, it comes together because of Shadowheart's needs, not Gale's.
(as a side note, their banter all together is just so lovely in game, I really love how they interact please seek it out.)
In my version of it, Gale bonds with Lae'zel over her cultured side, and she ends up being the person who notices his physical predicament in act 2 and starts a sexual relationship with him purely as a practical measure. Meanwhile, Shadowheart is going through the "Source of my Bruises" rivalry to lovers with Lae'zel, and also experiencing the emotional connection to Gale of both of them being semi-discarded chosen facing the end of their lives in act 2. Shadowheart choses Gale, and Gale ends things with Lae'zel, because that's what they all think they want and need. As far as Gale and Shadowheart think, they have limited time together. Gale will blow himself up, Shadowheart will become a Dark Justiciar, and Lae'zel will leave them both behind.
Then when that doesn't happen, both of them are feeling lost and empty. They find solace in each other, but also have a different view on what they need out of life. Lae'zel as a third specifically works for them because they need her drive, her determination. They need how she loves them with her fierceness. Shadowheart particularly needs her drive towards a better tomorrow, and Gale sees that.
The short version is I don't think Gale is definitively non-monogamous, but he is in a very volatile emotional state at the point of act 2 particularly, and it would have to be a very particular balance to be right for him in the space of the game (and who has time to programme that lol.) I also think Shadowheart would be poly with many more combos of characters than programming allowed. Lae'zel would only share with Gale, I think, due to how much she respects him.
#I went off on one but#this is my opinion anyway#bg3#gale dekarios#gale of waterdeep#shadowheart#lae'zel
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Dark Urge fixed some of the problems I had with act 3
This post has SPOILERS. BIG SPOILERS for both Baldur's Gate 3 and Dark Urge. If you check my tag dark urge I previously wrote an act 1 + act 2 summary of what to expect from it, without any spoilers. Without spoilers, very briefly: expect to have a past you cannot control (of course), your character will say some messed up stuff, you can give in the urges or resist but there are at least two scenes you have no control over, you do get loot for giving in the urges, the story has more mystery and lore, act 3 is the culmination of Dark Urge story too and you can have a happy ending.
Now with SPOILERS
I will go over the acts and write down what extra content happens when you compare Dark Urge to Tav, with BIG SPOILERS. If you want to see why I think Dark Urge is so much better for the story, skip everything and go directly to act 3.
A general big change is that as Dark Urge you automatically get the "Baldurian" dialogue because you are from Baldur's Gate.
Act 1: In act 1 there is little Dark Urge content but an introduction. I kind of wish the game had just gone with DU (Dark Urge) instead of Tav directly, to hide the secret better, but I also like Tav a lot and I don't always want to play as an ex-murderer. Still, if you roleplay well the idea is that DU has these violent urges and think they are caused by the tadpole. So you will have to ask your companions about it, and the suspicion remains for half of act 1, at least until you give in the first obligatory urge.
The narration oftens tells you that DU wants blood and carnage, wants to feel life slipping away and, well, wants to murder, and you can give in these urges (ex. attack people, bite someone's toe off, kill Gale?? or at least cut his hands) or avoid these urges. Everything else is exactly the same, a part from the fact that DU has a REASON for being on the Nautilus. While Tav is just one of the random people the Nautilus has taken, DU is the one who was put there on purpose.
There are two big events in act 1 and some smaller ones. You can kill a squirrel, but it did not trigger for me, so I don't think it is an obligatory event, but you will kill a bard. Alfira will come to your camp after you sleep a n amount of nights, and she will want to join your party. This happens even if you had not met Alfira in the game. During the night DU will brutally kill her and at this point you can hide the body, or confess your crimes, up to you how open with them. I always chose the option to confess. If you confess immediately you will have a group chat with your party and you can defend yourself (ex. I don't know how it happened but I must have been the one who killed her), or you can wash the blood and then volunteer the information the next morning when the body is found. There is actually a metagaming way to save Alfira… when you get the night scene, reload to the save before, go to Alfira, use the incapacitate instead of the killing option (in actions) and knock her out. Because she is knocked out, the next night a new bard NPC will come to your camp and will be murdered, but not Alfira.
After the murder you will meet the butler. It is immediately clear this is a magical being, and he knows you. He knows DU likes to kill, and he is surprised if DU refuses to give in the urges or even feels guilty for what he had done. You will also get an amazing cloak that turns a character invisible after a kill (it is great for Astarion's sneak attacks).
For the rest of act 1 there is little more content. You can talk minimally with your party about what happened or your urges, but that is it.
ACT 2: In the underdark and during the mountain pass there is no real content, but stuff starts happening at Moonrise Tower. You will meet characters who suddenly knows who you are. They are pretty cryptic about it, but they talk to you as if you were one of them who suddenly disappeared. It really feels like coming, well, almost home. Ketheric remembers you, even the jailer remembers you. There is also a cat in Moonrise Tower who is scared of you and if you talk with them DU WILL kill the cat, so be mindful to avoid talking with cats in the Tower. The skeleton dog from Ketheric room? He also remembers you and your smell.
When you put your hand in the cracks of the wall and hear the brain you will also get new and different dialogue.
After you meet Isobel, you will see your butler again and he tells you that to have a real gif this time you will have to kill Isobel. The quest will be there but you do not need to complete it. If you do not complete it, the butler will come back at night after the Moonrise Tower fight. This is where he asks you to kill your lover (in my case it was Astarion). He tries to convince you and if you say no, this is also where you find out that you cannot really control the urge - you will have to pass a wisdom check to take enough control to wake up your lover and tell them what is happening. At this point, they will tie you up because you are not in control anymore. You can pass 3 wisdom checks to try and thank them, or you can give in the urge but it does not look like there is any difference here but dialogue. The next morning you will have an extra talk with your lover and the party as well.
At this point it looks like the butler abandoned you because you failed your Dark Urge quest.
Another small thing, while under Moonrise Tower you can explore a bit and you will find one of the pod that smells like your blood and other small traces and hints to the fact that someone wanted to get rid of you and that is why you ended up on the nautilus.
Act 3: Act 3 is where most of the stuff gets resolved and things really come together. Orin targets you because you are family, you are her brother. She hates you because you were the Bhaal chosen one. My favourite part is that this really explains why the Chosen three's plan is failing. You were supposed to be Bhaal's chosen, not Orin. Multiple characters (Gortash and Sarevok) comments on how you were such a better Chosen because Orin is fickle, that is why she turns against Gortash. Gortash and Orin against each other always confused me during my Tav game, mainly because it felt so unexplained - like, they were so close to their goal, why is everything crumbling? Because she was never supposed to assume that role. She grew jealous of DU, chosen of Bhaal, and got rid of him by inserting the tadpole in his brain and discarding him.
When you talk with Gortash you also gets even more insight. It is clear that Gortash likes you, that is why is asking for an alliance. Not to a random adventurer called Tav, but to his old ally and friend. You and Gortash basically devised the whole plan, YOU took the crown, you were a fundamental part of it. And suddenly you stopping it (or taking control of the brain) for me had so much more meaning. While playing Tav I always wondered why is Tav even in charge, but when I played DU it really seemed like this was THEIR mess to fix.
The confrontation at the temple of Bhaal is the end of the DU storyline which also wraps up why Withers was even with you.
You confront Orin and after you kill her you will meet your father Bhaal, who will ask you to become his chosen again. You can agree, and then at the end you will be able to claim the brain in Bhaal's name. But if you refuse, and give in the guilt for having murdered so many people (before your amnesia), Bhaal will take back his blood and leave you dead on the ground. At this point Withers will come in (and we know Withers is Jergal, the god of death before the Three) and will revive you. You will be born anew, your past is lost because the urge in you had been taken away but the memories with it. You can ask him about those memories too and he says that he can show you the names of your victims if you so desire. You are also a blank slate, a new person born from what you have learnt in your journey instead of your past. So yeah, you can have a good hopeful ending.
More importantly, this fell so well in the themes of BG3 especially the ones of being born again, changing and gods fighting for their chosen. Like Selune and Shar were fighting for Shadowheart, your character was also in the middle of a play of gods. Given Withers was with you since the start, it really feels like he was aiding you not at random, but because you were an escaped chosen one who could be stolen from Bhaal. And being born again and getting rid of your master/tormentor/powerful god/dictator fits so well. ALL your origin companions are in a certain measure subjected to absence of freedom or imbalance of power.
(Also before the Bhaal mission, but after the lover's personal quest you will have the option to break up with them and worry about the danger of killing them, which gives you an extra cute scene).
After the Bhaal mission there is no more content for DU and everything else seemed the same!
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alright, it's done. i finished it.
this is the third and final part of things that happened in my first bg3 playthrough ever that I found so funny that I put them in my notes (spoilers below)
let me start this by saying I have only cried twice in the 155 hours it took me to complete this shit. however, I have almost-screamed at the characters more times than I'd like to admit. but first here's stuff that happened since the last one of these posts I made:
after killing Orin I went around Baldur's Gate for a while and did odd sidequests, including
clearing out a haunted house and sidelining to kill a stinky man in a wardrobe (and drag his body to a guy two streets over)
entirely ignored Gale's quest to look at a book because I kept getting arrested there after having killed the boss mage guy
I also foolishly though this wouldn't have any consequences. oh boy was I wrong
went to see a underwater prison, got told off by Gortash, decided to explore it after killing him, and promptly forgot to do so
killed Gortash! fuck that guy the only good thing about him is his fancy robe
tried to recruit a dragon called Ansur, found out the emperor is Balduran (????????? honestly I was shocked)
killed said dragon and felt like I was playing skyrim all over again
found a letter ("Dear Ansur") by Balduran/the Emperor. this was the first time I cried. I could still cry.
patch 6 came out! that was yesterday and I spent about 10 minutes trying out new kisses and sitting on Shadowhearts stool in camp (she now says "I'm glad you decided to join me" or something like that when you do)
went pretty much straight to the underground pool thing where the brain was supposed to be
failed abysmally to Dominate The Brain™
got pulled out by the emperor and had to start beef with Lae'zel because I had also forgotten to care about Orpheus and the hammer from the House of Hope
admittedly, I didn't really forget, I just didn't want to spend any more time with Raphael than I absolutely had to
my +14 persuasion saved the day once more and Lae'zel was fine with the one hope in her life getting his brains sucked out
went off to fight the brain once more. my game crashed twice trying to load that cutscene.
met all my allies! I forgot how many there were actually, and I only called on two of the groups later on
fought a lot. like a LOT lot.
got to the Netherbrain and kicked it's ass*
*had to reload about 3 times and try again because Minsc at level 12 was stuck on 100 hp for some reason and kept fucking dying
finally managed to kill the fucker! had Lae'zel deal the killing blow which seemed very fitting
more cutscenes, but this one actually didn't crash the game, I got to look at some beautiful unloaded walls and stuff instead
Lae'zel left right after we got to the haven. understandably so
remember how I ignored Gale's quest? well he didn't blow himself up like he inteded earlier, but he left to becOME A GOD????? I cannot fucking deal with this man
Karlach on the pier. this was the second time I cried, but unproportionally much so
Wyll left with her for Avernus, the little cutscene of them arriving there made me feel a bit better
Astarion had to leg it because of the sun (sorry)
Shadowheart didn't do much of anything during all of this, neither did Minsc, Halsin or Jaheira
decided to go help kids with Halsin, seems to fit my character (eventhough I really didn't roleplay so much)
we got an epilogue! yippie!
caught up there with everyone, except Lae'zel (who was there via the fantasy version of zoom) and Gale (who was there via the fantasy equivalent of a voicemail)
tried to hug Gale, couldn't, almost cried again but managed
also met a tressym who I recognized from fanart as Tara. I don't know why she was there, we never met her before and Gale hadn't mentioned her either
read a LOT of letters the party had received. barely kept my composure at the Gur's letter to Astarion
Withers did a cool speech and the game ended
after all of this and so much more that I didn't take notes about, I can confidentially say that Baldur's Gate 3 is the best video game I have ever played, and within it's genre my favourite ever!
I'm also emotionally devestated, especially after these final parts (but in a good way)
that's all, thanks for reading!
#bg3#baldurs gate 3#orin the red#enver gortash#astarion#gale#wyll#karlach#lae'zel#shadowheart#jaheira#minsc#withers#bg3 spoilers#the emperor#ansur#bela rambles
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Listening to Gale tell me about how Elminster is the most formidable wizard in the Realms and etc etc and one thing that does stick out in BG3 compared to BG2 is the power level. In my entirely subjective feels, BG3 feels more like BG1 - or maybe Shadows of Amn - with a slightly higher threat; Throne of Bhaal had you massacring an entire Tethyrian army sent to fight you and saw Elminster run for life rather than fight you.
5e got rid of epic levels, but it feels a bit like we've got the base campaign and an epic level campaign that were kind of shoved together into one plot: it's weird because the threat level is higher than Shadows of Amn, but the actual characters feel a little lower than it. Like we're missing the second half of the game, perhaps?
I think one of my problems is that I'm playing the Dark Urge; you give me a portion of a god walking around, high priest and a should-be Chosen who is destined to bring about the apocalypse and... that gives me epic level campaign vibes, but Vel's half-mortal big sister would annihilate him. Sure, you let me play a demigod, but you didn't quite capture the feel of sheer power. It's partially the 5e thing but as far as FR crpg protagonists go, Tav and Durge feel pretty weak (which is interesting, in the latter's case, because taking a trip to Cania is reminiscent of the Hero of Waterdeep, who was epic level kind of implying they were at that stage. Blame the tadpole?)
I don't really have a point to this babbling; my opinions are - naturally - subjective, and I'm not really complaining, it just feels weird to me for some reason.
Is it the level cap? Is it the pacing maybe? Is it the pacing that's not suiting the sheer scope of the plot?
(That said; I do not want a sequel. If Larian does anything more I'd rather they just flesh out what's already there (without rewriting or retconning what exists). But no sequel - Not everything needs a sequel, just a good story with an ending.)
#The fact that the focus is divided between 8 origins instead of being focused on a more solid protagonist subplot isn't helping#And that's more the origins than Tav's fault because they didn't need any special dialogue unlike the others#bg2 spoilers#babbling#griping#I mean not really but meh
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I do think gale would have nipple piercings perhaps as a part of his wild university days. Which the bordering on self delusion does to me imply that his uni days were crazy
oh yeah i definitely think he was sort of a horrible wild boy around age 20 or so.
Jumping off this ask a bit—i think one of the reasons i've been pretty vocally resistant to the softening/taming/fandomification of Gale is that i think keeping up the appearance of "normal" "respectability" was probably a big part of his relationship with Mystra? Not that their relationship was domestic in any recognizable way, but i think it was stable: stable on Mystra's terms, stable because Gale was not allowed to want anything to change. And after long enough Gale started believing that this stasis was what he wanted.
(Until, of course, he got to the breaking point of defying her by seeking out the orb, which I read as a form of subconscious relationship sabotage on his part. No matter how much he told himself that maybe she would be fine with it, deep down I think part of him knew it would ruin everything and he did it anyway.)
It's nice that the fandom (at least the parts of it I see) recognizes how fucked his relationship with Mystra was, but one thing that, to me, is usually lacking from depictions/analyses of the situation, is a recognition of how LONG TERM and SETTLED their relationship was, and the effects that had on him.
After all that the guy deserves to have the fun version of a midlife crisis, with Tav along for the ride (or, you know, egging him on).
I do occasionally worry that i'm swinging way too far in the other direction (then i remind myself, why worry, i'm just here to have fun with it)—but anyway i'm not denying that he does have a warm domestic streak. I just think that it's only one part of him! People have contradictions and enjoying a night in sometimes vs also loving to get into a little trouble is one of his.
Gale says to the player, "You're wholly without vice or sin or the occasional lapse in judgement? No - you don't strike me as quite that boring"—and then a large chunk of the fandom imagines that post-game, Gale finally becomes somebody wholly without vice or sin or the occasional lapse in judgement anymore. Truly i will never understand.
Also... if i'm being perfectly honest... the fact that his "good ending" leans into the quiet domesticity thing is, to me, inseparable from the fact that it also leans into seeking Mystra's "forgiveness" and seeing "her side" of the conflict (🤮). Like I literally just think that the end of his arc was mishandled in canon. so.
Anyway, I can't see him and Tav settling into soft respectable married life, i see them as That Mutually Insane Couple Who Always Have Some Shit Happening.
tldr: Gale Nipple Piercings Real
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Any thoughts you’d like to share on the other origins characters? Anything you like about them :)
Again, haven't played the game so these are my general thoughts based on a few romance compilations, YouTube Shorts, and memes. If anybody would like to rectify this, please Venmo me $500 so I can buy a PS5.
Shadowheart
Admittedly don't know that much about her other than the emos love her and she follows a goddess of loss. Looks like her arc is all about questioning institutions and her god, which I think is very sexy of her. If anybody has a quest line compilation video to recommend so I can see her whole story, please send it my way.
Lae'zel
The other origin character I admittedly don't know that much about. Still love an arc about questioning the system she was raised in and her god. Again, very sexy of her. Fish out of water stories are some of my favorites. Pair that with a hardened character learning to enjoy the gentler things in the world, and you've got yourself a banger. I should really look up her quest line at some point to get a full view of it.
Karlach
Best girl. Strong muscles, soft heart. I want her to be my best friend IRL. She deserves better and if there is any way to get a better ending that allows her to stay in Faerun, the studio needs to get on that ASAP. In the meantime, I'm going to stay in the part of the internet that says she's fine don't worry about it. I'm hugging her and there is nothing you can do about it.
Wyll
Sweet boy. A perfect boy who did nothing wrong ever. Yeah, yeah, sold his soul to a devil, but he had a good reason. Plus, he was seventeen. Nobody should let a seventeen year old make any decisions ever. I do need to find a good romance compilation. He needs more love. His friendship with Karlach is everything to me.
Gale
People really need to stop complaining about this man. I see too many being ragging on about how he's not over his ex and keeps bringing her up. "With you I forget my goddess?" That isn't him saying with you he forgets his ex, he's saying with you he forgets his god. How are we all not collectively swooning? And he's a nerd who will info dump about his passions? Sign me the fuck up. His comfy pjs and burnt out gifted kid swagger has bewitched me body and soul.
Astarion
Guys, you've seen my blog. I'm obsessed with him.
The moment I saw this asshole pop up on my dash, I knew I was going to love him. He was the reason I decided to finally look up a romance compilation once I realized my computer was too old to let me run the game. He's my type to the point of parody. Literally anybody who knows me, knows this guy would end up being my favorite.
His arc is about bodily autonomy and trauma. He's allowed to not be the perfect victim. He's angry and violent. He's selfish and terrified. And he is, sadly, one of the few characters who, as part of his arc, realizes he can say no to sex and he can be loved without it.
My point is, it should be no surprise to anybody that the ace community loves this man, and anybody complaining about it should shut up.
If you want to write your sexy Astarion fanfic, there is nothing stopping you. More power to you. I've seen the graveyard scene too. I recognize that regaining his autonomy and being able to have sex with somebody he cares about is part of the healing process.
At the same time, if writers want to interpret his arc is him realizing he never wants to have sex again, and that being okay; let them. We need this. There are so few characters like him out there.
At some point I do want to write an hour long video essay about his arc and how it's resonated with the ace community specifically.
Anyway, those are my general thoughts. I feel like I just swung a bat at a hornet's nest with that last bit, but what's life without a little danger?
#baldur's gate 3#bg3#shadowheart#lae'zel#karlach#wyll#gale#astarion#gale of waterdeep#gale dekarios#astarion ancunin#wyll ravengard#karlach cliffgate
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Another human kink idea that pop up in my head
Imagine how elves wizard who study magic for hundreds of years to realize that they are on the same level of 20ish yo human wizard
I hope you are doing well btw
— RED anon
Yes! That fact never made sense to me either. For example, if Gale, a human who's clearly in his 30s, managed to become an Arch-Wizard, then what's stopping elves with lifespans ten times his own.
Theory A
Humans are born with an invisible xp multipler. Since at the end of the day, the dnd universe functions by game rules, and characters do, in fact, "level up," but they're not aware of it themselves.
To make up for their short life spans, all short lived races either are born with an xp multipler that lets them achieve more faster, or elves are born with a xp multipler that has a negative penalty.
So if a human by themselves has a multipler of 100% per year of magic study, then elves would have a 10% multipler. While dragonborns would have 110%. Kenku and Goblins get a 140% etc.
What about immortal creatures? Simple, they start with 100% or whatever their base race multipler is and suffer a decay penalty the more years they live past their age. But i feel like there should be a cap, maybe it can never get less than 1%.
Theory B
All races have the same xp multipler, but elves tend to fuck around doing nothing all day more. Maybe study one page for week and call it a day. It's not on purpose but their perception of time is really altered, what feels like hours to us might be seconds for them.
So if an elf really wants to, they can study all their life and actually become one of the most powerful arch-wizards. But they just...don't for some reason. Maybe it's the way Corellon made them, maybe being a wizard is scoffed at amogst their ranks because they are all born with inherited magic and the idea of learning and borrowing magic from the weave is insulting. Like how in drow society, most wizards are male, because if a women can study or do magic then it's considered much better to become a priestess of Lolth. Being a wizard is an insult.
Theory C
Because humans are speical and I said so :"((((
Because what if they really are? What if elves have been genuinely trying their best to become wizards and study all their life but for some reason, it's just not enough, yk. Maybe the weave prefers the short-lived, maybe Mystra prefers the humankind. Who knows.
Magic is Not like math, at least not like non-quantum math bc god knows that shit is the closest we will ever get to actual magic. People have been trying to marry it with actual physics and our normal math for years to no avail.
That's why kids are so much better at magic, you see. Magic is limited by your own brain, your own creativity and how you bend the rules.
What are humans known for? Their endless potential and creativity. What are they best at? Breaking the rules.
Maybe the human brain just clicks with magic. Our entire evolution of becoming really good problem solvers. Maybe solving puzzles for fun is a unique experience for humans which is why most of them end up falling in love with magic.
Anyway, that's all for the theory, kinky smut below about wizard elves and humans.
Okay so hear me out. You're a child prodigy in magic, far beyond your years and your understanding of the weave is so personalised and intimate that by a young age you started writing books to teach others your own ways.
As the years went by and the more wizard study certificates you've collected, you decided to teach at a magic university. You were so far known but the one thing everyone glosses over was the fact you were human. It was never mentioned in any of your books or writing.
So you're this cute young human professor at this prestigious high elf magic academy for wizards. Standing in front of rows of people much older than 4 or 5 of your generations combined. Having to teach them and be stern.
But they're being so stubborn and petty about the fact that a meek human is trying to act like their superior. Especially being high elves and all. They're tried to not take you seriously and skip your class but found out later that you're one of the mandatory classes for them to graduate so they begrudgingly attended.
Maybe they start thinking of you as eyecandy. Shamelessly glancing at you when you bend over to help look at someone's paper, maybe they start dropping the prof honorific and address you by a name or a nickname in elvish you're not aware of. Maybe even that elvish word has a perverted meaning that flies over your head when you happily answer to it and think they're warming up to you.
They try to become really close, inviting you to their hangouts, inappropriate parties, and everything that a professor shouldn't be attending. They hand you drinks and watch you swallow them down, coaxing you into showing them your cute human games, truth or dare it was called right?
One student dares you to sit on their lap, they coo and run their fingers on your body. Another skips turns to dare you to take your blazer off, why are you wearing formal clothes here?
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So, I never thought that I'd play Baldur's Gate 3, since turn-based RPGs are not my thing. But I was literally persuaded to play this game and I just have to share my impressions.
I did watch shorts and videos on YouTube, so I was aware of the world and characters before playing. That's why I decided to start Gale's origin
and I think if I decide to replay the game, I will choose him again, since he is the best. Yes, I think he is. I love good characters, kind, sympathetic, a little ambitious, gentle and loyal. And Gale fits my taste standards perfectly. He kind of reminds me of a sweet Hank Anderson from Detroit: Become Human. Noble, kind, gentle and faithful.
And, the funniest thing is that I decided to romance Astarion. Playing as Gale.
But not because I like Astarion.
On the contrary (and now hear me out), the more I played, the more he annoyed me, and I didn’t understand why people were so crazy about him. I mean, if you want him to like you, you need to do morally questionable things. Not to mention he is absolutely not my type, I never liked characters like him. That is, Astarion is the embodiment of everything that disappoints me in characters.
And you can talk as much as you like about his life being difficult. Because this does not justify many of his actions.
However, the ship itself works surprisingly well. I mean, I really like Gale and I don't like Astarion, but their ship surprisingly works. And now in a ship Astarion seems much... likable?
Basically, they are a perfect complement to each other, which is exactly the type of relationship I love. They help each other, they do not “fix” each other, but complement each other. They heal each other. Their relationship is not abusive if both work on this relationship, and the love between them is that type of love that happens probably once in a century. And to be honest, I don't want to make Astarion an ascended vampire (I haven't finished the game yet), I'm sure Gale will find a way for him to walk in the sun without the ritual.
Well, now to the other characters. Karlach and Wyll
are just two incredible sunshines. I tried to build friendly relations with them, I didn’t choose flirt while answering their lines, but for some reason they still ended up offering me sex, and it was really awkward and painful to turn them down.
So I just started shipping them together because it's another type of relationship I enjoy. It’s a pity that their couple is not popular (is there such a pairing at all?). This is the perfect “enemies to lovers” ship and it’s a shame that they can’t, like in some games, flirt with each other if they don’t have any affair with the main character .
I have almost nothing to say about Shadowheart, I’m not particularly interested in her (my party consists mainly of Astarion, Karlach and Lae'zel), but I think she has enough fans.
Halsin… oh, he is a magnificent man, and I would have romanced him if not the reasons. But I want you to know that he is also an incredible sunshine too, kind soft teddy bear who I wanted to hug and never let go.
And finally, HIM. Mysterious Guest. I knew this was an emperor, but I really liked the look I've created for him! I made him look like Hank Anderson, of course he didn’t look exactly like him, but nevertheless… I think he turned out very beautiful.
Let me scream about this beaty for a while!
In general, apart from problems with the gameplay (it took me a long time to get used to it), the game is really nice. The only thing that, it seems to me, would be worth changing is the permissiveness of choices when you go through the origin of any of the main characters, as was done with the Dark Urge. I mean, Wyll, Karlach and Gail are sunshines, so I absolutely can't believe that they are capable of doing bad things. If you can't avoid bad deeds when playing as the Urge, why can't you make it so that good characters are unable to do bad deeds? Would you really believe that Gale, Wyll or Karlach would be capable of slaughtering the whole village of children? For example, I believe that Astarion most likely would not have saved Shadowheart in the first act; he behaves selfishly throughout the entire first act. But I don’t believe that Karlach, Wyll and Gale would be capable of leaving her caged.
So, yeah, that's it.
#baldur's gate 3#astarion#astarion ancunin#bloodeweave#gale of waterdeep#gale dekarios#bg3#karlach#misterious guest#baldurs gate astarion#bg3 gale#wyll ravengard#bg3 wyll#halsin#bg3 halsin
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So I finished the BG3 after doing every side mission I could find. And.... I have feelings
So I played with the poly mod, so I romanced everyone but Lae'zel and Shadowheart who I couldn't get the romance to start for. I also had the mod that lets me have all the companions with me, so I don't know how or if that changes the ending cut scenes.
But first off, the endings were way too short. I heavily dislike endings that have you fight the final battle, give you a cut scene, then end. Give us a little something after to come down from the high of the victory and see the happiness of the ending we fought so hard for.
Speaking of happiness; I can't say I'm happy with anyone's endings. I told Lae'zel she should go back to her people cause I know that's what she's wanted this whole time, so she left to free her people. This was in my opinion the happiest companion ending I got, even though it's still bitter sweet and doesn't feel like theirs closure cause she still has to fight to free her people with no time to rest.
Astarion just started to burn in the sun and ran off, then Shadowheart was like "poor guy, no more sun for him" then I never saw him again. Kinda shitty considering everything he fought for and the fact I was in a relationship with him. And it's not like the ending just picked one of my love interests to give the ending for, since all my other partners acknowledged me as their partner in their cut scenes (more on that in a moment).
Gale just stood at the edge of the doc and was like "the crown fell into the water. Guess I gotta find it" and then talked about his ex some more before saying we'll do it together. Didn't like that his arch was left open ended as well with him still afflicted with the orb AND wanting to return to Mystra who is terrible for so many reasons.
I got nothing for Shadowheart, and I don't know if Wyll can have his own scene, but his was lumped in with Karlach's for mine. Karlach is dying, her engine burning up, and she says she loves me and is glad we could be together. Wyll was really upset and yells "my love, we have to get her back to avernus! It's the only way to save her". Karlach didn't want to go back, but we convinced her and tell her we will be there with her and will protect her till we find a way to cure her. The three of us go to avernus and it ends with us about to fight imps and I guess I'm in a poly with the two of them, which I didn't know was an option, but them both referring to me as their love in that cut scene was a scripted thing so I don't think it was cause of the mod. Either way, I hated that at the end of the game, we haven't cured Karlach and now she's back in avernus. All her endings seem to suck as, spoiler, she either dies, returns to avernus, or becomes a mind flayer and has to live in hiding. So all of her endings suck.
I hated how none of the characters felt like they got a good resolution or much closure. There wasn't a sense of happiness or real victory. That kinda thing can work in DND cause the campaign can keep going, but in a video game, where there is no way to move forward, it seriously sucks. I put 300+ hours into this game, made so many choices to ensure my companions were safe and happy, tried to get them each the best ending I could without looking up too many spoilers, and in the end, they each get 3-5 minute cut scenes where their main character quest is unfinished and left in limbo? That just feels really crushing and disheartening as a gamer. In my next playthrough, why bother trying to help Karlach? She'll still be uncured by the end. Gale's just going to go back to his abusive god or maybe still blow up. Who knows. Astarion will still be hiding in the shadows, stuck as a spawn forever.
Over all, it just kinda sucked that not one of them felt like their arch got wrapped up/resolved.
#bg3#baldur's gate 3#astarion#tav#lae'zel#wyll#wyll ravengard#gale of waterdeep#gale#spoilers#karlach#shadowheart#rant#video games
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just saw a take about the hunger games that made me think. It was something along the lines of Snow having Prim purposefully reaped bc Katniss was disobeying capitol rules and he wanted her to quiet down by taking her sister away. I mean at first it seems like a pretty neat theory especially considering that Lucy Gray in tbosas was purposefully reaped bc she had beef with the mayors daughter but like I really don't think that would make much sense tbh.
In the first book it is immediately established that district was kind of abandoned by the capitol. They simple didn't care much for it. The people were poor and sick and dying like flies. As long as the coal was delivered it didn't really matter what was going on over there, they couldn't do much anyway.
Katniss wasn't the only one breaking capitol rules. Matter of fact, even the capitol placed peacekeepers didn't care much for them and even district 12s mayor broke the rules occasionally. If Snow really did care that much for what was going on in there he wouldve probably started by replacing the peacekeepers and made sure the mayor knew to behave. That way he couldve easily shut everything down. (he probably wouldnt even have to go that far. All he'd have to do was turn the electricity in the fence on).
Surprise! He actually did all that in the second book, when he first fully noticed Katniss and saw her as the threat she could be. He immediately changed all the peacekeepers and made the environment much stricter.
The reason why he knew all of the stuff she was doing behind the capitols back was bc he let the old peacekeepers that broke the rules be tortured. They probably told him all about it before they got turbed into avoxes.
Katniss going hunting and singing songs in district 12 while being mostly alone wasn't a threat at all. She had no desire to openly oppose the Capitol, she only talked bad about them when she and Gale were far away from the District in some abandoned forest and even then she was incredibly careful. There was nothing rebelious about her, if her sister wouldn't have been reaped she wouldve stayed her whole life in District 12 trying to do her best to feed her family.
Even if Snow was aware of her existence and knew what she was doing and saw it as a threat to the capitol that he wanted to distinguish, why would he give her any platform at all? Like, if he knew that her sister was important he would've also known that she would most likely volunteer for her. If you ask me, a rebelious person on the big screens with a huge audience that was supposed to love her, root for her and watch her every step was far worse than some lone girl in the ass crack of panem selling squirrels. Its like poking a hornets nest.
Last but not least, it would give Katniss some kind of "chosen one" thing, which she just simply isn't. She's just some random teenage girl that happened to be at the right place at the right time (or wrong place wrong time?). There isn't anything special about her, or rather she isnt more special than the others she's around. She isn't smarter or stronger or strategically more gifted. She's just dragged along somewhere where she simply doesnt wanna be. She didn't want to be the symbol of the rebellion to the very end. She was just an angry, hurt child that wanted nothing but to keep the people she loved save and the people around her used that to her advantage all.the.time. Making her the "chosen one" isn't only going against what the books tell you all the time, but is also actively taking away from the tragedy her character faced.
#thg katniss#thg meta#the hunger games#tbosas#the hunger games katniss#katniss everdeen#rant post#annies brainjuice
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one thing abt bg3 and I don't know if I'm making sense here but I just can't get myself to really care about astarion and gale, because they're both just dragon age characters with less edge and intrigue to them
gale is the caring, bookish, very domestic and romantic, cat-loving, bisexual mage that anders from da2 is, and both their stories have them commit a thing they personally deem as unforgivable and end up in a very suicidal state for parts of their respective story. but where anders' story was probably the most defining arc of the whole franchise, gale's feels so safe and bland in comparison? we don't really see much of gale's story and character development on screen, we just see him struggle with the aftermath of his backstory, while dragon age 2 on the other hand had you watch anders' entire character development from a just-escaped self-centred mage, to a caring healer with revolutionary tendencies, to a person who has become so fed up with the political landscape that he blows up a church
like, dragon age actually asked real questions with anders' storyline, and genuinely sympathized with his reasons for committing an act of terrorism (I'm ignoring inquisition on purpose) and bg3 just feels like a very shallow copy of a trope of character?
and for some reason this irks me even worse, but astarion is just. zevran and fenris mashed together into The Most Marketable Romance Option. Astarion feels to me, like someone did market research on how to make the most well-beloved character. And funnily enough, whenever at least I see a poll on dragon age romances on here, zevran and fenris are ALWAYS the two top contenders, and their stories are similar, but still both really meaningfully deep to me in a way that I just *couldn't* connect with with astarion's storyline.
I don't mean to say that the game doesn't use these themes, but astarion is a vampire, because romancing vampires sells, and he is sassy and funny and bitchy, because that sells, and he is white (as opposed to fenris and zevran) because that is a lot safer and more marketable than him being a character of color. He is an elf, because romancing elves sells. I genuinely even believe that the reason astarion is a rogue is because zevran is a rogue and because rogues are 'sexy', just because I just don't think the class really fits him all that much and there could have been way more compelling classes he could have been (like a bard who's based on seduction, his backstory doesn't really explain why he's a rogue?). His plotline is so heavily overlapping with two really beloved dragon age characters, probably also because the story felt really safe and 'proven'.
And I do think that astarion's storyline stands on it's own, but it brings so little new stuff to the table. the idea to use vampirism as a stand-in for his oppression was cool, and that astarion's storyline interacts with other victims of his abuser (which zevran's and fenris' storylines didn't do very much) was really nice, and I did like the choice for the endings because astarion has both more agency than the other two characters but he also has worse choices. but that's kinda it? it just feels like astarion's plotline is a a bit more developed version of zevran's and fenris' plotlines?
zevran and fenris both have a former master hunting them, and explicitly were slaves before escaping and both struggle with the fear of "am I really free?", and the looming threat that their master is actually hunting them - and the group they just joined. and due to their life full of abuse (in both cases sexual abuse is at least implied) they have tremendous problems with intimacy and vulnerability. zevran's storyline EXPLICITLY is about how he had to use sex all of his life to survive and sees it as entirely transactional and you need to actually get to know him better to realise he's not sleeping with you because he likes you all that much, but because he *doesn't want you to fucking kill him* and sees this as a way to come across as more likeable and trustworthy. zevran is also entirely desensitized with the combination of sex and murder specifically, because he is an assassin, who used sex to survive. both have tattoos given to them to show that they are property, but fenris' tattoos are also magical inscriptions that are key to his master's power and his master would hunt him to the end of the world to get him back, because of the tattoos.
and this is just kind of a personal opinion, but astarion being a white character felt for these comparisons alone like chickening out and 'playing it safe'. there is no way in hell that the writers of bg3 were not aware of these two characters specifically, because, you know, dragon age is literally the biggest other franchise of their genre. and you cannot tell me that the way astarion is written was a total accident, because you do not by accident write a copy of two of the most well-beloved romances of the fantasy RPG genre. and baldur's gate 3 is kind of sparse about the companions' racial diversity in general, and then them copying over the blueprint to two characters of color and making their character white - the character they make the most content for and put on all the marketing - just feels so personally rude to me. especially because the only actual character of color they have on their roster has half of the content that astarion has, and generally seems like an "oops we forgot to add a character of color" character last minute addition, who wasn't even really part of the early access tests apparently
#myposts#i dont really wanna tag this as the fandom because like i dont wanna start shit but like. these 2 characters especially piss me off#because they are just copies of characters that are kinda better than they are?
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I think because BG 3 only allows us to go to 12 and because the game has to make changes so things translate to the new medium, the group is made up of some incredibly powerful people.
Astarion is the easiest to look at, even in 5e vampire spawn are no joke, they are strong, fast, agile, you know superhuman, and are like this taste of if you think they were rough wait until you face off who made them. While Cazador kept them just shy of feral there is no denying Astarion could take on most mortals with no effort on his end.
Which makes me wonder if his deciding to group up with Tav and co isn't so much because he's a bit uneasy about being in the sun or the tadpoles, but because while he is in the sun, he must have felt some shift in his strength and was unsure how close to mortal he was physically now.
Because Wyll even mentions this about how easy it was for him to tangle with some fairly powerful creatures but now he can't. And his power comes from Mizora, which lends to me wonder if the tadpole was interfering with her influence in that aspect. And it's the real reason she wanted this problem taken care of.
Gale also mentions his power being dwindled, however, I feel this is both the tadpole and him also not being a chosen of Mystra. Because her chosen are true powerhouses. Elmenster straight up walked into the Hells and killed Asmodeous' daughter who wasn't just some cast aside spawn, she ruled in the hells with him. So you know. No some small feat.
It's just so great to think that this group if they weren't infected and allowed to function at full power would have mowed through the Sword Coast, lol
Karlach even, infernal engine aside you aren't a tiefling surviving in the Blood War without being a certified badass. Also, barbarians are known to do some wild shit while in rage. Like just not dying. Add the engine into it? I am sure she was a force to reckon with on the field. Rage is a hell of a drug kids.
So really it's Shadowheart and Lae'zel who don't seem to mention feeling weaker, that I am aware of. Perhaps they are closer to what they were before being infected.
Halsin gets powered down, by game so his stats align with the party, as with everyone mentioning he's known for his healing abilities and such I get the impression he's no pushover druid. The same goes with the previous BG companions.
I don't know about Minthy, I am weakling and don't really play evil, so I don't know if she mentions feeling weaker.
And I mean in the context of tabletop, level 12 is no small feat or low level by any means. Considering most games end at level 20 and it's insane to get that high, at 20 you really are heading into the Hells and Abyss to do some more cosmic level adventures, however, I do feel most of the group was like level 15 before the tadpole.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
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