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#fundamentalist church of the latter day saints
msnikkimoneypenny · 2 years
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The fact that the FLDS is still in operation and still listening to Warren Jeff (polygamist/child rape enforcer/their prophet) is sickening . That man has a life sentence and is still controlling things.
PS: since they are so isolated do they know what society thinks of them?
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spurgie-cousin · 3 months
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😅
#i let myself put words on an already words and y'all are being suspiciously quiet about it#which is fine don't get me wrong but like#very sus 🤣#also going to say here on my own lil blog post that i do think there are many cults masquerading as christianity#i also think there are many churches that are christian in name that are instead cults#i have recently discovered how close i and my family were to falling into one#not like we were being led directly but like...#we were at a not safe distance going 'what a pretty mountain' and then while we wandered to a slightly safer distance#the mountain revealed itself as a volcano and exploded#like i can see and taste the ash but the lava flows didnt find me ya know?#anyways#had a recent discussion in sunday school about how there are several sects of religion that claim to worship and follow Jesus#but he is not the Jesus of scripture#and people have added doctrines to him often in works based salvation styles#of which latter day saints and jehovah's witnesses and several other things fall into#but so have the dangerously patriarchal fundamentalist churches#and we should just be very very very careful#that the God we are following is the one whose revealed word has withstood the test of thousands and thousands of years#and not a doctrine whose god and testimony cannot stand up to its own witness for a couple hundred years#ragamusings in the tags#my views on what makes good religion have so shifted in the past couple years#hopefully for the better and closer to the truth and further from what man has to say about it
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toomanythoughts2 · 8 days
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Victim or Cohort? Anja Wartooth and Toki Wartooth's Relationship Theories
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Hello again! My full thoughts and analysis will be under the cut away just like last time!
I have spent a considerable amount of time thinking about these two characters and their relationship, and I thought it was about time that I put all of it down in one place. Anja Wartooth is an incredibly interesting character to me and it's a shame we don't see too much of her.
So, for the most part, this post will be about what the title says:
Was Anja Wartooth a victim just like Toki or was she a cohort to her husband's abuse toward Toki AND whichever she is, how has that affected her relationship with her son?
Evidence for Victimhood
Cults and Women
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"From an abandoned village near Lilliehammer, Norway, Anja and the Reverend Aslaug Wartooth." - Senator Stampingston "Dethfam"
Anja Wartooth is a very mysterious character in Metalocalypse when we are first introduced to her in "Dethfam". She is a very single sided character, "the wife" "the mother" and once we learn a little more "the abuser". Anja's role as we see her as the fans is just that and nothing else. However, when we start digging through the actual background we are being given by Brendon Smalls, a much more disturbing image is being created. In order for us the understand what is being presented, we need to understand what is happening and what does that mean for her.
There are very few things we know about her but the most important to remember right now is that Anja is married to a cult leader.
"Toki's father [Aslaug] was the local leader of a mysterious and cultish sect of Christianity, which likely involved vows of silence and extreme disciplinarianism." - Metalocalypse Wiki
Anja is married to a cult leader, we as the fans are fully aware of that. But what does that really mean?
It means that Anja has no control over herself or her child.
Dr. Alexandra Stein wrote a short essay on the effects of women in cults called, "Cults are terrifying. But they're even worse for women." She has multiple years of research in the field dealing with cults and what they do to women, specifically their reproductive freedom. In her essay, she highlights how motherhood is taken over by a cult leader in order to force the woman to focus their attention on them, and not the child. This could mean forcing abortions on women or forbidding birth control so that child are convinced whenever. She also includes that when parental attention is given to the child, the cult community rules dictate how that attention happens. Women in cults are also exposed to sexual abuse and their children are exposed to child abuse, often times overlapping each other depending on what type of cult they are in. Child sexual abuse is not uncommon in cults, such as in the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, where Warren Jeffs, their leader, is in prison for sexual abuse toward girls.
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"In short, women’s right to control their bodies, their child-bearing, their sexuality and their mothering are all taken away in cults as the leader grabs control of these most intimate parts of their lives. Women don’t choose this: They are groomed, brought in slowly and gradually separated from their previous lives and close relationships. Once isolated within the cult, and suffocated within its closed world, it becomes almost impossible for followers to maintain their independence. At a certain point, it becomes easier to simply give in, stop thinking and accept the new norms." - Dr. Alexandra Stein, "Cults are terrifying. But they're even worse for women."
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When reviewing the article, this specific scene from "Dethdad" came to mind. It's during Toki's flashbacks of all of the abuse he had gone through, and this is one of those things he remembers. Not only is this traumatizing to Toki, but, with the knowledge we know now, it's probably traumatizing to Anja. The last bit that Dr. Stein says, "It becomes easier to simply give in." really resonates with me with how Anja is simply "giving in" to her husband's desires. Take a close look at her. Does she look like she's enjoying it? NO!
Now that we know that cult leaders have a reputation of separating mother and child to keep the woman's focus on the leader, lets look at the Wartooths. Aslaug separating the interactions between Toki and Anja to keep Anja in line would be on par for a cult leader. They live in an abandoned village outside of Lilliehammer, so they are cut off from the rest of the world, keeping her and Toki severely isolated. Anja really only has her husband, the cult leader, and the few members of their cult that we see in "Dethdad". (The wiki hints that these people are also Toki's family, which further pushes Anja into isolation if those people in the cult are Aslaug's family, NOT Anja's!) Another small hint at reproductive abuse is the age of Anja and Aslaug. We don't know canonically their ages, but they are drawn in a fashion where they are much older parents, probably way older than they should be to be bringing in a child. Which raises the question, does Anja have access to birth control? My guess, probably not.
Another moment of mothering abuse would be the one time we see Anja hit Toki in "Dethkids." It was under the supervision of Aslaug. This cosines with the idea that mothering in a cult is only allowed to the extent of what the leader wants. Aslaug is a disciplinarian, which would make sense why he would oversee how the mother interacts with the child, and does as he wants, not what the mother wants.
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This is a side note, in "Dethkids", this scene lasts for 18 seconds. 17 of those seconds were just Anja staring at Toki before slapping him.
What all of this information means to me is that Aslaug purposefully withheld Anja from forming a mother/son relationship with Toki, furthering his abuse on Anja and Toki. Based on Dr. Stein's essay, Aslaug most likely abused Anja as well, as it fits in their cult leader/wife dynamic. I feel like this is good evidence toward Anja being a victim of a cult and having to conform to his ideals in order to survive.
Aslaug's Abuse Toward Toki
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Aslaug is a cult leader, a malicious man who has beaten and abused Toki. From the wiki, Aslaug is characterized to, "[petrify] [Toki] by any proximity to Aslaug, physical or mental." whereas Anja (granted her wiki is severely lacking) has no mention of bringing such a state to Toki.
Here is a list of all the ways Toki has been abused on screen:
Forced into the Punishment Hole (Underground pit) in inadequate clothing and in subfreezing weather.
Switched across back, legs, and arms till bleeding, leaving with open wounds and no medical care.
Chained to wall.
Pushing the "Wheel of Pain" mill.
Carrying boxes of rocks uphill in inadequate clothing.
Carrying logs and stacking them in inadequate clothing.
Face slapping.
Sweeping snow in inadequate clothing.
Walking in parents having sex (I personally see this as sexual abuse and control.)
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A type of abuse we don't see on screen but is in the concept art of "Dethzazz", Aslaug hitting Toki's bare back with a horse whip when he breaks the wooden spoke.
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In the special features episode, "Family," Toki states that he was spanked as a child. "I often thinks of the days in Norway when family. Pants down. Spank." - Toki
(I understand that spanking is a controversial topic when discussing child abuse, but I'm going to go on a limb here and say that Toki was not spanked in a "normal" fashion, and was probably beaten horribly.)
Now, I would like to remind everyone that the only time we see Anja being an active abuser is in "Dethkids" when she slaps Toki across the face. That is the ONLY time Anja does something like that. This, however, does not disqualify the indirect abuse she put Toki through by being a bystander and letting the abuse continue at the hands of Aslaug. Nor does this disqualify her from possibly having other direct roles in Toki's abuse, but, with the evidence that is shown, Aslaug is seen much more than Anja in Toki's abuse. However, Anja can be both guilty of indirect abuse and be a victim at the same time.
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For example, in "Doomstar Requiem", when Toki sings "I Believe", there is a flashback when he says, "My familys, they didn't cares about mes" This is what is shown. Toki is obviously holding an acoustic guitar by the shape of the body that is shown and the wooden neck. He is showing it to his family and Aslaug is the one telling Toki that he has to leave, not Anja, though, she looks more disgusted with it than Aslaug. Here is more proof that Aslaug is the one making these decisions about and for Toki, not Anja, but Anja could have stepped in and stopped it.
With that being said, I would not be a far reach to state that Aslaug was the main abuser.
Lingering Effects
From what we know about Adult Toki and his abuse, is that Toki is severely traumatized. From their first meeting, Aslaug (and Anja by omission, but only because the wiki states that Aslaug causes Toki stress, not Anja) sent Toki into a catatonic state for three days in "Dethfam". He did not speak in those three days, a distinctive characteristic of Aslaug's cult. It is also a predecessor to "Dethzazz" where we learn that his catatonic state takes the form of the Punishment Hole, something we have only seen Aslaug send Toki to, not Anja.
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Aslaug has also created a phobia in Toki of Bicentennial Quarters because they look like the entrance to the Punishment Hole. Toki is so scared of them that he has to be drugged in order to calm down from this phobia. This relays to the audience that Toki is so scared and traumatized by his time in the Punishment Hole that his body physically can not function around a quarter because it looks vaguely like it.
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It's worth noting that in "Dethzazz" when Toki is stuck in his Punishment Hole, a spider hybrid with his father's head comes to attack Toki in his mind. He only comes around when Little Toki is by himself in his hole with his clown doll nowhere to be found, in his most vulnerable state. In his dissociative mind, the creatures that came to attack Toki were snakes and a Spider/Dad hybrid! Not Anja, Aslaug! This is important because it points out that Aslaug is Toki's main stressor.
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One of Toki's most important arcs (in my opinion) is Toki age regressing slowly throughout the show until we get to "Army of the Doomstar", where it is confirmed by Pickles in the church. The reason Toki started regressing in the first place can be originated at "Dethfam" where Toki is forced to see his parents again. We see Toki voluntarily use age regression to cope and calm himself down, like the usage of his Deaddy Bear, coloring, playing with his toys (model planes), and his love for plushies. Those are only the few things I can remember off the top of my head. From there, throughout the seasons, Toki begins to regress more and more, until we get to "Doomstar Requiem", where once he is rescued, it really kicks it into overdrive. Simply, Toki's abuse (and captivity, which resembles a LOT of his own childhood abuse) has traumatized him so badly, that he has to age regress to cope, which went from voluntarily to involuntarily.
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Everyone who loves Toki, knows that scene in "Snakes n' Barrels II" where Toki beats the shit out of that guy at the sober concert. However, it is important to remember that the episode right before that is "Dethdad". The Tribunal said in "Dethdad", "Toki has suppressed his feelings for his father. His death may ignite long-dormant emotions. He will spin out of control into a vortex of madness. He will bring death to us all."
I have a theory that, with the stress of his father dying, blaming himself for his death, and being in a crowded concert while being sober, was the reason he really went apeshit on that guy. The tribunal was giving us foreshadowing into the next episode (or two, if you watched it on TV and had to see it split up). With that being said, what the Tribunal predicted would happen, did happen, at least to one person. His repressed rage after his father's death while being overstimulated and sober caused a chain reaction in Toki.
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I do not believe Toki to be a overtly violent man, despite his affliction toward sadism and power trips at times. "Dethkids" showed the audience that Toki's rage comes from his childhood abuse during "Toki's Song". The montage of his flashbacks show Aslaug and Anja abusing him, which hints that Toki does have some lingering anger toward his mother. This further proves the Tribunal's warning of Toki spinning out of control after his death.
Which brings us to our next effect, drinking. My theory is that, because Toki was sober when he beat up that guy (plus fully aware of his feelings about his father), he started drinking to combat any possibility of doing it again. I do believe that Toki does not feel good about what he did to that man once he regained his mind. So, in order to stop from thinking about his father and about beating that man close to death, he will do what he wasn't doing at the concert, which was drinking. Obviously, this leads the band to start to seriously worry about Toki and even have Nathan break the "No Caring" policy. Thankfully, Toki was able to kick that after the Season 2 Finale.
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While this next effect may be a little meta, it's still an important aspect that I would like to talk about. Toki's panic attacks we see in the show, specifically the one in "Bookklok", are a result of his abuse. Abused children have a significantly larger chance of developing anxiety and panic-like symptoms and disorders. Toki was abused severely, but especially when he needed to be "punished" for breaking the rules. From my point of view, this means that Toki's panic attacks occur when he messes up something and thinks he is going to be punished again, like in "Bookklok", when he steps on his guitar AUX and messes up his solo. Something else to note, in the Metaloclaypse Wiki, it states that, "What Toki suffered from was most likely hyperpneic syndrome, usually called hyperventilation. If one breaths too much too quickly, the amount of carbon dioxide in the blood decreases, and an attack occurs." Toki's panic attack being hyperventilation related could also relate to Norway's high altitude and a his failure of acclimatization (which takes 3 to 5 days), which would have made his attack that much more severe, leading him to collapse like he did.
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(This one might be a a stretch, but in "Dethrecord" when Toki accidently delete's Skwisgaar's guitar part, he does panic and plead with Skwisgaar to not kick him out of the band, even offering to suck his dick. I know it's meant to be a funny moment, but that was real fear out of Toki. This could align with a much younger Toki panicking and pleading with his father to not kick him out of the home and into the Punishment Hole, even descending into some desperate attempts to prevent it. I don't necessarily believe that Toki was ever sexually abused by his parents, but the likelihood of it happening is still very high, especially since Toki lives with the leader of the cult.)
Pickles Parallel
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Toki is not the only one with a problem with his father. Everyone except Nathan (though he might of fixed his father issues off camera) has father issues, but the one member that reflects him the most is Pickles. Pickles has a horrible relationship with his father. I'm going to be honest, I don't think they have a single scene together where they talk to each other other than the flashback. "Fatherklok" is the one I want to focus on because that is where we see Pickles and Toki coming together to talk about their fathers, and what they have to say about them.
In the beginning, Toki says to Charles, "So, my dads just died. and I'm totally cool with it." (He's lying.)
Pickles says, "Look, I got no relationship with my dad other than I hate him, you know? [Flashback] You know, I realized the other day that I don't even know his first name. And I'm proud. I'm proud to know that I don't know that." (He is also lying.)
Through out the beginning, we see Pickles (And Toki in the very beginning when he's talking to Nathan in the kitchen but mostly Pickles) trying to get Murderface to "father" him a little but is chased off my Murderface while he favors Skwisgaar. This enrages him and he is seen destroying his endangered animals room.
Pickles says, "Why does Murderface favor Skwisgaar over me? What's wrong with me?" Which Toki asks if Murderface is really doing it and asks how it's going while looking sad. Pickles says it's going great and asks, "What about us?" Toki says he's being totally excluded and Pickle says, "Just like my old man did to me," with Toki agreeing. They both agree this is going to screw them up with Pickle's destroying a Murderface cup.
So at this point, we are aware that Pickles and Toki have lingering emotions about their father, about being excluded, but also rage. This obviously concludes with Pickles beating up Murderface, with Toki joining in. So, this episode shows how Toki and Pickles relate to their rage about their fathers.
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But what about their mothers?
"Motherklok" is a completely different vibe, with Pickles trying his best to form a relationship with his cold and distant mother, Molly. The episode is about Pickles changing himself in order to please his mother so they can have a relationship, something Pickles is still clinging on to. It's most likely not the first time their this has happened. As it goes, Pickles finally ends up breaking away from that toxic relationship when nothing pleases her by telling her to "Go Fuck Yourself." To me, this says that both Molly and Calvert were actively neglectful and abusive parents to Pickles on their own, and not together. Whereas with Toki, it seems that the abuse came mostly from one source, his father, with his mother following his commands. While we do not see the Toki and Pickle's parallel in the episode itself, there is evidence throughout other episodes that, unlike Pickles, Toki was able to form a relationship with his mother.
Toki and Anja's Relationship
Pre-Dethdad Death
Speaking Terms
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I think the biggest cue that Toki has a relationship with his mother and it's on good terms is that they talk to each other. In the beginning of "Dethdad", we see Toki getting a call from his mother. We know it's from his mother because he says, "Mor?" which is Norwegian for "Mother." The full translation is from the Metalocalypse Wiki:
«Hellos? – Mor? Ja... kreft? Han er nesten død? Han hoster opp blod? Okay, ha det bra!» "
"Hellos? – Mother? Yes... cancer? He's almost dead? He coughs up blood? Okay, goodbye/see you!"
From this scene, we can tell that,
Anja has Toki's number
Toki wouldn't just give his number out to his parents after having no contact with them in over 10 years without some kind of compromise. I believe that Toki giving his number to his mother was that compromise.
Toki picks up the phone for his mother
In "Dethmas", it is concluded that the band can see the names of whoever is calling before answering. The scene of Nathan, Pickles, and Skwisgaar getting calls from their mothers, ignoring them, then getting calls from each others mothers, while continuingly ignoring them is telling to how Toki picks up his phone. There was no hesitation in Toki picking up his phone. I don't believe that Anja would have her own phone until after Aslaug's death, so Toki asking "Mor?" to clarify it's her is more aligned with Anja using someone else's phone. But even having getting that clarification, he does not end the phone call and continues it. She has probably called him before with this same method.
Anja is speaking
Anja is from a cult where they value mutism. Her choosing to call her son herself instead of getting someone else to do it is a spiritual sacrifice. She is putting her values aside to talk to him personally and give this terrible news about his father. She is controlling something about her and Toki's relationship, the act of communication. How many times do you think she has spoken to Toki while he grew up that wasn't under the eyes of Aslaug?
This is important in terms of their relationship because in "Dethfam", Toki has not spoken in 3 days and was catatonic. Going from that to having a full conversation with his mother on the phone is a huge step. Not only that, but the conversation starts and ends appropriately. There is a hello, there is a good bye. There is a small but meaningful conversation happening between them.
In the same episode, we do see Aslaug speak to Toki, but we don't know exactly what he said. We do know it was a demand. What was it? CARRY ME UP THIS MOUNTAIN AND PUT ME IN MY CHILDHOOD COTTAGE! And what did Toki do his entire life? CARRY HEAVY OBJECTS UP MOUNTIANS! His last and quite possibly only words to Toki was a demand to carry another heavy object up a mountain. The difference between these two conversation sets each parent apart as in how they view Toki.
Post-Dethdad Death
Secret Santa Presents
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The last time we see Anja is during "Dethmas". I'll go into detail about Anja herself but for now, lets focus on what interactions we do see. Toki and Anja don't physically interact, unless you consider Toki and Anja standing next to each other before boarding the Dethbus a physical interaction. What we do see however are the presents Toki buys for his secret Santa. One of those presents are for his mother!
Now mind you, there has been 6 episodes in between "Dethdad" and "Dethmas", including "Renovationklok" which states a nine month time jump. In the episode, Nathan speaks to the boys about not giving their mothers alcohol because of "last time". This alludes to their being at least one Christmas before this Christmas episode. So Toki and Anja have had one Christmas together already. (Toki does state after they view the Christmas DVD that "their [mothers] are going to ruin Christmas" but this more likely to alludes to the drinking and horniness than them actually being there, as they all share the same Christmas spirit as him.)
This means that Toki's relationship with his mother has developed so much that he is comfortable enough getting her a present. But also the quality of the gift will probably high. Toki states to the rest of the band when they won't agree to secret Santa that, "I aints listens to you no more! I'ms going shoppings! Yes! Shoppin's! To buy each and every ones of yous a gifts! and I wants to sees de looks on all your fat fucking faces whens I gives you greats presents! Ha Ha! Fucks you!"
Toki was out buying presents for his loved ones with the clear intention of them being good presents. He has gifts for all of the members of Dethklok, Charles, Dr. Rockso (that god damn back stabbing son of a bitch), and his mom! He does not get a gift for any of the other mothers or anyone else, just these people. This clearly shows that Toki values his mother enough to get her a good Christmas gift.
Dethbus Scene
This is a small scene, but I wanted to highlight how the other mothers speak to their sons (and the other members plus Knubbler) VS. Toki and Anja. The other mothers are comfortable enough to yell and hit their sons and the other members while trying to find a parking spot. Now, neither Toki or Anja speak during this scene, but it's also important to note that the other mothers have never spoken poorly to Toki or hit him before. Whether this is because the dynamic between Toki and his family is a lot more psychological (to showcase his own kind of parental abuse) or Anja (and Aslaug) have a clear boundary that only they can speak or hit Toki, is up for interpretation. But the point is that Anja has never said a bad word to Toki or hit him on screen other than that one flashback whereas the other mothers have! It sets them apart from the rest of the group.
(Granted! Toki may be so screwed up that being around his parents might make him act more appropriately, but the later half of the episode kind of disproves that with the drinking scene and Toki trying to fight Dr. Rockso in clear sight of his mother.)
Their relationship as mother and son has improved since the death of his father. It's not perfect, and it probably never will be. Anja herself has to go through a lot of personal growth before I think Toki and her will ever have a normal relationship. That's why her relationship with the other mothers is so important for her and Toki's relationship.
Anja Post Aslaug's Death
Dethmom's Girl Group
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Toki and Anja's relationship will not change until Anja herself changes. Anja is a victim of a cult, where her choices were taken from her. Now with her husband dead, she is able to finally branch out and do things for herself. It will take years for her to fully express who Anja is, but her relationship with the other Dethmoms are so important to this development. "Dethmas" shows us that Anja has taken refuge with the other mothers, something we do not see Pre-Dethdad.
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The Dethmoms, while not the best bunch, are probably the closet Anja has to friends. We do not see her with friends beforehand and the people at Aslaug's deathbed are (I am assuming) are Aslaug's family and their congregation. Anja is around four very different types of women, all of which have very different views, mannerisms, and styles. This is something she would have never been allowed near in a cult, especially one that values her modesty, mutism and devotion to Christ. (It's believed that her cult is Christian based, and her veil is closet to a Christian nun.)
These women are all very different from Anja and yet! They are genuinely happy to be around her and have her as their friend. "Dethmas" proves this!
We have Serverta, who's most obvious traits are her provocative style and manners, as to Anja's cloak and veil. Molly is from a heavy drinking family, something that Anja is never seen doing. Then there is Stella, who's way of speaking differs from Anja in both vocabulary and volume, while Anja is still silent around the group. Then there is Rose, the all American typical housewife, with a mostly normal life, something Anja does not have.
An important aspect of their relationship is that they include Anja in their adventures, even when she herself may not be 100% in. During the flashbacks to their first Christmas, we see Anja with the girls while they are fooling around getting drunk and messing with each other sexually. They don't push her past her limits and instead, let her do her own thing while with them.
They don't pressure her to play twister (She's not seen in the photo). They don't come on to her in the sauna and instead let her make a move on someone else (I find this incredibly important to the flashback of Anja with Aslaug in bed! This is Anja making a move on her own and exploring her choices and NOT having someone on top of her while she looks away. SHE'S TOUCHING THEM! SHES LOOKING! SHE'S FULLY DRESSED! This is obviously her choice! Sexual freedom! Lesbian maybe??) They don't make her drink or participate with the male strippers. This is something she is never seen doing, which also separates her from the group but never excludes her.
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A deleted scene where Dr. Rockso (why did they give him such a fat ass here?) is entertaining the moms during the same episode shows Anja in a skimpier dress and actually participating in the strip tease show. (Could this be where Toki gets his love for clowns? Maybe!) This, mixed in with the scraped "Sexy Dress" Anja, is probably set after Murderface gets funding for his Christmas Special and the moms need to be entertained in the montage. Point is, they always include her and never push her past her boundaries and let her make her own decisions. Which brings us to the mall!
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The group actively acknowledges Anja and speaks to her like a true friend. They see her as who she is but also someone who is worth change. The conversation before her makeover goes as such:
"You know something, Anja. Now that you're single maybe you should find your sexy side?" - Rose
"Ooh, let's do a fucking makeover and make Anja a little sexy kitty cat." - Stella
The group is shown helping Anja find something else to wear and picking out makeup behind Murderface's phone calls. Could you imagine being in a cult for years, wearing the same thing as everyone else, and then suddenly these people who care about you, and see you as a woman and a friend, want to help you change into yourself?
I also like the detail of Serverta trying to get Anja to wear the scrapped skimpy dress from before but Rose comes in with a scarf instead and then Serverta appraises it! Like, she held up what she believes Anja could pull off (Serverta wants the girls to be girling) while Rose recognizes it might be too much too early and chooses just a simple touch instead. Serveta is supportive about it as well! They aren't pushing her into someone she isn't, they're working toward giving her self confidence and finding out who she is! Girl groups are so important for this very reason. Anja probably never had a "And we were girls together" moment. This IS her moment! They just want the best for her, which is probably so different from her life before. She is experiencing for the first time what life can really be like without the cult or her husband.
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At the end of the episode, we know that the mothers get drunk and crash the Christmas Special. All but one is seen drinking, Anja. Despite their drunkenness, they still include Anja. Molly even sits next to her on stage. But not only that, ANJA IS SEEN WEARING HER SCARF AND MAKE UP FROM BEFORE! There have been multiple days since they went to the mall so that means she bought and kept the scarf and make up. SHE PUT IT ON HERSELF AND WANTED TO FEEL PRETTY! SHE WANTED TO JOIN IN ON THE ADVENTURE AND DO HER OWN THING! This is a step toward making her own choices and boosting her self-confidence! Anja is slowly but surely finding herself within the girl group!
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Obviously, this group of women are not the best women Anja could have chosen, but's the group she needs. They are loud, boisterous, sexual, crazy, and opinionated women. They are not afraid to do stupid shit like their sons and have fun. They also all have done something to their children, so none of them can judge the other too harshly. Anja is in a boat of similar women, those who have done bad things before but are still living, still growing, still caring about their sons either way. It would be hard for Anja to be in a group of women who have been perfect, kind, and had a happy life with no parental/child issues. Anja sees these women as the only ones who could ever truly understand her. Hopefully, with more time, Anja will become the woman she never dreamed she could be with the help and guidance of her friends.
Counterpoints
I do want to point out some counterpoints in this theory just to round it out.
Narcissism and Indifference
I know that there is also a good chance that Anja may just not care enough about Toki to feel either way about him. Her inaction could be just that, inaction. Anja could have had all the power in the world to stop Aslaug from abusing Toki and she chose not to, because she simply did not care enough about him. Anja could be narcissistic and only care about Toki in the sense of, "What does that have to do with me?" She'll accept the gifts, she'll make the phone calls, but it's all about what she wants or what her husband wants. She could have very well only called Toki because she needed something from him for her dying husband and nothing more. Toki is a very rich man and with Aslaug gone and unable to provide for her like he once did, she might be using Toki's kindness as a way to care for herself and herself alone. The other Dethmoms do show signs of narcissism, just like their sons. It would not be far to believe that Anja is the same way. When the cross falls on Toki during "Dethmas", Anja is sitting right in front of him, listening to him scream. She does nothing. She probably listened to Toki's screams as a child and did the same thing. Nothing.
Toki's Imagination
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Toki has a very vivid imagination and a desperation for love and connection. Toki also has a very hard time in picking good and long lasting friends, giving people more chances then they deserve with him.
We see this with Dr. Rockso. Dr. Rockso is a constant pain in Toki's ass, hurting him and using him for drugs, but Toki and him still hang out all of the time. Toki considers Dr. Rockso to be his best friend even. (Granted, Dr. Rockso did stop those addicts in Doomstar Requiem so Dethklok could save Toki but still.)
We see this with his own father in "Dethdad", where he chooses to forgive the man who abused and neglected him all of his life. What person would do that? Someone who wants a connection with their parents no matter what. That's why Toki is so upset when he drops his father and he drowns under the lake. Despite this man abusing him beyond comprehension, Toki still finds it in his heart to forgive while desperate enough to cry over him.
Everyone Toki has ever loved has died. His guitar teacher, the little girl, his cat. All of them have died after he has or went to make a meaningful and loving connection with them. His mother is the sole person left of his immediate family. Toki would be desperate to make amends with her and try to have a connection and Anja, with no one else to turn to, accepts. Toki could very well be blocking out or ignoring the abuse that she has done to him in favor of remembering his father's so that he can forgive her easier and have a relationship.
We see this desperate attempt to make his childhood seem better and normal in "Dethzazz" when Toki is talking to Dr. Twinkletits about his childhood. He says he loved it while showing active abuse on the screen. In "Fertilityklok", Toki desperately wants to start a family and get a wife/girlfriend after being sick and tired of just random women. In "Dethcamp", Toki's desperation for a connection is clear when he goes to camp to meet up people and make friends, even letting people pick on him for his diabetes to fit in. In "Diversityclub", Toki is feeling left out and makes his own club so that can be included and accepted. In "Breakup Klok", Toki does not venture out on his own, but instead stays with Murderface as an unpaid intern to stay close with someone he cares about and cares about him. In "Doublebookedklok", Toki is acting out because of Charles being so busy by hitting people but once Charles tells him "everyone thinks you're really cool" and "you don't need to hit people to get their attention", Toki runs to hug him and he cries. In "Doomstar Requiem", Toki even refers to Magnus while chained and abused as "My friend!" Who calls their abuser "My friend"?
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Toki blocking out the bad and accepting scraps of affection and connection is not out of the ordinary. He craves it and wants it more than anything in the world.
Conclusion
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I believe that Anja Wartooth is a victim a cult and was unable to raise her son the way she wanted to and instead had to do as her husband said. However, years of being in a cult changed her, and she lost who she was in favor of keeping with the cults demands and wishes and creating a new "normal" for her. Aslaug was the main abuser toward Toki and hardly allowed Anja and Toki to be together without his supervision. Toki and Anja have a developing relationship since "Dethfam" and it has been shown to be improving over the years, especially after the death of Aslaug. Anja is slowing find herself through her connections and friendships with the other Dethmoms.
Anja and Toki have a long way to go but I do see them having a much better relationship with Aslaug out of the way.
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I hoped you enjoyed this analysis. I love Toki and his mother is super interesting to me. If we ever get an epilogue, I hope we see Anja again. Hopefully away from the cult and much happier.
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larkingame · 9 months
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Hey friends, I’m looking to discuss some things to do with Larkin and it’s new updates with some people who have experience with/been apart of the church of Latter-day Saints and Fundamentalist Christianity. I have some money set aside to compensate you for your time(via PayPal) if this sounds like you and you’re interested you can reach me at larkininteractivefiction (at) gmail (dot) com
thank you!
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qualitythoughts · 11 months
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Atheism'd be a lot cooler if we all talked like One Piece powerscalers
"Yeah old man, go read the King James Fibble again, Hope it helps, Lesus dickrider"
"the Fraud, the Son, and the Holy Spirit aren't ready for him"
- *buff Darwin*
The Lpostle agenda has got to stop. The church isn't cool and It and the Pope are stuck on fraudwatch in my book.
Science is top 1 in the verse. Stop the cap, this isn't AgendaEarth. Look at the feats!Religion keeps losing ground, and even the ones with any kind of open mind are non-fundamentalist hippie shit ones!
Oh fuck off, "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" you were founded by the Andrew Tate of pioneers.
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letsdocuboutit · 3 months
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- Let's Docu 'Bout It -
Episode 11 - Keep Sweet Pray and Obey (Part One)
This week I recap and talk about the Netflix docuseries, Keep Sweet Pray and Obey, which is about the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS), an offshoot of mainstream Mormonism, and its current leader Warren Jeffs. Survivors of this cult were interviewed extensively in this four part docuseries. This episode talks about parts 1 and 2 of the docuseries.
Listen here or wherever you listen to podcasts!
Spotify - Apple - Amazon - Castbox - iHeartRadio - RadioPublic - Google
Photos - (Row 2: Rulon Jeffs and some of his wives // Rebecca Wall now vs when married to Rulon at age 19) (Row 3: Alicia Rohbock when she married Rulon at age 20 // Alicia now) (Row 4: Short Creek, Utah // Warren Jeffs home in Short Creek)
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vmod · 1 year
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hi!! I wanna hopefully clarify some things for prev anon! (disclaimer: I’m not poly)
(warning for vague discussions of cults and abuse)
I’m from the states and polygamy is illegal mainly because of a religion that started in the US (church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints). Fundamentalists (the FLDS) are still around but milder sects are much more common nowadays.
Unfortunately, the flds has a history of abuse, forcing (often underaged) girls to marry men of status. Some leaders had dozens of wives. This is the big reason why polygamy is so frowned upon (and outlawed) in the US.
But I want prev anon to know that true polyamorous relationships are NOT THE SAME THING as the flds practice of polygamy.
They have a consensual, happy relationship, and they’re NOT HURTING ANYONE. Polycules can have multiple loving partners and maintain happy/healthy relationships with all members. It’s honestly not much different than a relationship between two people. Just more love to go around.
(ofc, there’s nothing inherently wrong with being part of the lds unless you’re actively hurting people. unfortunately, the fundamentalist lds group has a very dark history. if you want more information, there’s a great documentary on netflix called “keep sweet, pray, and obey.”)
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morbidmemories · 2 months
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Netflix true crime
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Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey
Warren Jeffs saw himself as the spiritual leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), an extremist offshoot of mainstream Mormonism. In reality, he created a system of abuse and coercion, forcing members of his congregation — often underage — into marriage, blind obedience, and isolation. In this docuseries, former FLDS members and survivors come forward to share their stories. Using never-before-seen VCR footage from within the FLDS community, this series provides the well-known story with a deeply human and relatable face — told through current interviews with his wives and congregation.
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Lover, Stalker, Killer
As the title suggests, Lover, Stalker, Killer is a story of a romance gone wrong. In 2012, Dave Kroupa created an online dating profile after just coming out of a long-term relationship. It’s there that he meets a single mom named Liz Golyar. Soon after, he encounters another single mother, Cari Farver, while repairing her car at his auto shop. It’s an instant connection for Kroupa and Farver, but what would unfold is a twisted love triangle that leads to harassment, digital deception, and murder.
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Murdaugh Murders: A Southern Scandal
A tight-knit South Carolina community is ripped apart by a series of deadly crimes that all seem to involve one family: the Murdaughs. The two seasons of Murdaugh Murders: A Southern Scandal delve into how a prominent family used and abused their wealth and privilege to the extreme.
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Night Stalker: The Hunt for a Serial Killer
Yeah, you’ll want to lock your doors and windows for this one. Beneath the glitz and glamor of 1985 LA lurked a prolific serial killer. Richard Ramirez hunted, tortured, and murdered his victims in terrifying ways while evading capture for one long year. Night Stalker focuses on Ramirez’s victims and the investigators behind the manhunt.
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The Keepers
Who killed Sister Cathy? In 1969, the 26-year-old nun from suburban Baltimore was murdered. Her sudden death stunned the town, especially her students at Archbishop Keough High School. As investigators dug into this mystery, they learned that her death may not have been the only injustice. Was Sister Catherine Cesnik murdered to cover up sexual abuse by a school priest?
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The Staircase
In 2001, novelist Michael Peterson found his wife, Kathleen Peterson, dead at the bottom of a staircase in their home. Although it was reported as an accidental death, investigators believed Peterson bludgeoned his wife and staged the murder. The Staircase documents the case against Peterson and poses the question: Did he do it?
Credit:
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whole-yeet-potato · 9 months
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flds. no not fundamentalist church of latter day saints. faramir lovers defense squad .. duh
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beardedmrbean · 1 year
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The leader of small polygamous group near the Arizona-Utah border had taken at least 20 wives, most of them minors, and punished followers who did not treat him as a prophet, newly filed federal court documents show.
Samuel Bateman was a former member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or FLDS, until he left to start his own small offshoot group. He was supported financially by male followers who also gave up their own wives and children to be Bateman's wives, according to an FBI affidavit.
The document filed Friday provides new insight about what investigators have found in a case that first became public in August. It accompanied charges of kidnapping and impeding a foreseeable prosecution against three of Bateman's wives - Naomi Bistline, Donnae Barlow and Moretta Rose Johnson.
Bistline and Barlow are scheduled to appear in federal magistrate court in Flagstaff on Wednesday. Johnson is awaiting extradition from Washington state.
The women are accused of fleeing with eight of Bateman's children, who were placed in Arizona state custody earlier this year. The children were found last week hundreds of miles away in Spokane, Washington.
Bateman was arrested in August when someone spotted small fingers in the gap of a trailer he was hauling through Flagstaff. He posted bond but was arrested again and charged with obstructing justice in a federal investigation into whether children were being transported across state lines for sexual activity.
Court records allege that Bateman, 46, engaged in child sex trafficking and polygamy, but none of his current charges relate to those allegations. Polygamy is illegal in Arizona but was decriminalized in Utah in 2020.
Arizona Department of Child Services spokesman Darren DaRonco and FBI spokesman Kevin Smith declined to comment on the case Tuesday. Bistline's attorney didn't respond to a request for comment, and Barlow's attorney declined to comment. Johnson didn't have a publicly listed attorney.
The FBI affidavit filed in the women's case largely centers on Bateman, who proclaimed himself a prophet in 2019. Bateman says he was told by former FLDS leader Warren Jeffs to invoke the "Spirit of God on these people." The affidavit details explicit sexual acts that Bateman and his followers engaged in to fulfill "Godly duties."
Jeffs is serving a life sentence in a Texas prison for child sex abuse related to underage marriages.
Criminal defense attorney Michael Piccarreta, who represented Jeffs on Arizona charges that were dismissed, said the state has a history of trying to take a stand against polygamy by charging relatively minor offenses to build bigger cases.
"Whether this is the same tactic that has been used in the past or whether there's more to the story, only time will tell," he said.
The office of Bateman's attorney in the federal case, Adam Zickerman, declined to comment Tuesday.
Bateman lived in Colorado City among a patchwork of devout members of the polygamous FLDS, ex-church members and those who don't practice the beliefs. Polygamy is a legacy of the early teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but the mainstream church abandoned the practice in 1890 and now strictly prohibits it.
Bateman often traveled to Nebraska where some of his other followers lived and internationally to Canada and Mexico for conferences.
When Bateman was arrested earlier this year, he instructed his followers to obtain passports and to delete messages sent through an encrypted system, authorities said.
"Bateman did so in order to obstruct, influence, and impede an investigation and prosecution in federal court," federal prosecutors said when announcing the indictment in September.
He demanded that his followers confess publicly for any indiscretions, and shared those confessions widely, according to the FBI affidavit. He claimed the punishments, which ranged from a time out to public shaming and sexual activity, came from the Lord, the affidavit states.
According to the Justice Department, Bateman was charged with destruction of records or an attempt to destroy records in an official proceeding; tampering or attempting to tamper with an official proceeding; and destruction of records in a federal investigation.
The children identified by their initials in court documents have said little to authorities. The three children found in the trailer Bateman was hauling through Flagstaff - which had a makeshift toilet, a couch, camping chairs and no ventilation - told authorities they didn't have any health or medical needs, a police report stated.
None of the girls placed in state custody in Arizona disclosed sexual abuse by Bateman during forensic interviews, though one said she was present during sexual activity, according to the FBI affidavit. But the girls often wrote in journals that were seized by the FBI. In them, several of the girls referenced intimate interactions with Bateman. Authorities believe the older girls influenced the younger ones not to talk about Bateman, the FBI said.
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spurgie-cousin · 2 years
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Rachel Jeffs (Blackmore) had updated on fb about her father Warren Jeffs. Apparently her brother is now turning into a new Warren. He recently married 3 young girls i think after there being no weddings in the FLDS for years. Remember Warren stopped weddings and babies when he went to prison.
I didn't know she was active on Facebook again thanks for the heads up!!
I always wondered if some of the other Jeffs brothers/sons would try to usurp him while he's in prison, especially with so many followers disillusioned with Warren. I think some Warren loyalists will remain but his rules are so overbearing and make their lives so joyless that defecting in that way makes sense to me it makes some sense (at least for those not ready to leave the religion all together).
I don't have a lot of hope for Warren's sons to be any better than him for many reasons and it sounds like that's probably the case. I hope Sarah will post regular updates (to the best of her ability) so the outside world can keep an eye on him and prevent another Warren from happening.
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adamsvanrhijn · 1 year
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katacha · 2 years
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Megnéztem ezt a négy részes dokumentumfilmet a fundamentalista mormon egyházról (FLDS), négyszer 50 perc tömény borzalom: poligámia, erőszak, gyerekkereskedelem, irányított házasság, kihasználás, vérfertőzés, pedofília, elképesztő PR hadművelet.
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divinum-pacis · 2 years
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Movie & TV Show Recommendations
This is a list of different religious-themed movies, TV shows, Youtube channels, etc. that I’ve personally watched, enjoyed, and/or learned something from. Feel free to comment your own suggestions!
TV Series:
OWN Belief - Belief is a seven-part documentary series hosted by Oprah Winfrey which travels across the globe to explore the traditional practices of religion and spirituality such as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Atheism.
The Story of God with Morgan Freeman - (Some episodes can be found free on National Geographic’s Youtube) Morgan Freeman explores the meaning of life, God, and many big questions in between in an effort to understand how religion has evolved and shaped society. A different divine subject is covered in each hour-long episode, titles of which include `Creation, The Devil Inside, Afterlife, Apocalypse, and Who Is God?' 
Heaven's Gate: The Cult of Cults (HBO Max) - An examination of the UFO cult through the eyes of its former members and their loved ones; what starts with the disappearance of 20 people from an Oregon town, ends with the largest suicide on U.S. soil. (CW: Suicide)
Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey (Netflix) - Examines the rise of Warren Jeffs in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and his shocking criminal case. Examines the rise of Warren Jeffs in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and his shocking criminal case. (CW: Child abuse, sexual abuse, sexual assault, pedophilia, rape)
The Way Down: God, Greed, and the Cult of Gwen Shamblin (HBO Max) - The Way Down is a 2021 American documentary television miniseries directed and produced by Marina Zenovich. It follows Gwen Shamblin Lara, the founder of a diet program Weigh Down Workshop, and The Remnant Fellowship, a new Christian group led by Shamblin Lara. (CW: Eating disorders, child abuse, child death, murder, suicide, spiritual abuse)
Youtube:
ReligionForBreakfast - An educational channel dedicated to the academic, nonsectarian study of religion. We promote improving the public's religious literacy by exploring humanity's beliefs and rituals through an anthropological, sociological, and archaeological lens. Religion for Breakfast does not endorse any particular religious tradition or non-religious perspective.
Fundie Fridays - On Jen’s channel, they talk about different aspects of Christian fundamentalism while (usually) doing their makeup.
Let’s Talk Religion - This channel aims to educate on the subject of religion from an academic perspective and to open up for informed discussions on the subject. You will find videos discussing the big religions of the world, historical reviews of important figures and works as well as documentaries about numerous related subjects.
OnePath Network - OnePath Network is a Muslim production studio based in Sydney, Australia. They  produce high quality videos on many aspects of faith, including: education, current news, Islamic history, short films, and daily inspiration. Their content is delivered by a range of international personalities and scholars.
QuakerSpeak - Interested in the Quaker religion, Quaker history, or interviews with modern Quakers?  QuakerSpeak is a Quaker YouTube channel. They interview Friends of all different backgrounds and ask them the core questions of their faith, and release a new video every other Thursday.
Vice Channel series - False Gods (3 episodes); The Believers (4 episodes); True Believers (1 episode)
Upon Friar Review - Two Franciscan friars. One Internet. Hilarity and wisdom ensues.
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crazychlo08 · 2 years
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Okay, so all of you’ve seen me spamming gifsets about Under the Banner of Heaven and if you’re thinking about watching it... 
well, incoming ramble under cut :)
Under the Banner of Heaven is based on a book by Jon Krakauer, which is based off of the real life events of Brenda and Erica Lafferty’s murders in 1984. This mini series is indeed true crime and finding the murderers of the Laffertys, but it also goes deeper into Mormonism and the LDS (Latter Day Saints) Church and the diverging of fundamentalist Mormonism from mainstream Mormonism. I myself am not one for true crime, but I was immediately hooked into this show from the very start. I had anticipated the shows as it stars one of my favorite actors (Andrew Garfield) and of course my all time favorite Seth Numrich. Right off the bat I knew this was going to be a deeply introspective and high quality piece as Andrew Garfield always takes on projects that tell a story that needs to be exposed to the world, he himself saying that he always wants his work to mean something.
As always, Andrew Garfield goes above and beyond with his acting. It is so nuanced and realistic, right down to the little quirks in his movements and the ways his eyes can say so much in one frame. He has so much passion for what he does and it bleeds into his acting and through the screen. The show is set in a predomaintly LDS, white community in Utah and it does such a good job setting up the exposition as it shows Jeb (Andrew Garfield) with his family (literally made my heart melt into goo). Fast forward a little and we start to see some flashbacks, the overall cinematography changing from dark cool tones with warm yellow tones to show the contrast of mood and time. This is where we get to see some amazing actors like Wyatt Russell (I first discovered him in the Falcon and Winter Solider Disney+ series) who is so talented (though you hate his character most of the time) and becomes integral to the plot later. And of course, Seth Numrich, who turns out to have a lot of screen time and a big part of the plot, flashbacks and present time. 
The whole mood throughout is suspenseful and menacing, and you can tell there’s something going on but you just can’t put your finger on it. The performances that are delivered are insanely incredible, I cannot even put it in words how stunning and powerful they are. The way Andrew’s character is affected by this case as an unquestioning, faithful LDS Mormon himself is so nuanced and with precise yet noticeable acting. I also love the way that the suspects of this case are starting to open Jeb’s eyes about his faith, some of their circumstances relating to conflicts he’s facing in his own personal life and getting him to question ideals that he’s been following from the womb. It was also such a pleasure to watch Seth do something new on screen as he’s been working within the theatre industry more then film/tv, and it reminds me how talented and spectacular of an actor he is. He has one or two monologues which has sent shivers down my spine with this authenticity and power.  Every look and word has so much meaning behind it, and his character is so drastically different from flashbacks to present time, it’s amazing to see the difference in Seth’s portrayal, using his body language to present the un picture things his character has gone through due to time. 
In terms of how the religion is handled...Well, hang in there :) 
Growing up in a religious household with a family that practiced the same religion, I never saw religion in the media (film, tv, books, anything I consumed), and even though I am not Mormon, watching actors I respect pray and worship God on TV is something I never knew I needed. Personally, I feel like being religious is looked down upon in society, but in your church you’re expected to be super outwardly religious all the time. Seeing prayer and worship be so normalized on screen in every day life felt like I was being seen and that the high or uncomfortable expectations of the church was not as “weird”, and that it really surprised me since I’m not extremely religious. 
 The series handles the religion with reverence and so much respect, and since I knew little to nothing about Mormonism before this, it seemed to go a good job laying basic groundwork about how it works. Mormons have a complicated history dating to the late eighteenth century as they were prosecuted and hunted, and I had no idea. I researched some more and I found that ex Mormons who watched the show were shocked at how realistic and and true it was to their faith without bringing mis-concepted ideas or stereotypes. I found that even though the show is shedding light onto the bad side of Mormonism, I found that the religion isn’t portrayed just negatively. The joy in the scenes where families are harmonious and happy, sort of normalizing incorporating religion into their lives (which is what small child chlo would have loved to see). I also recognize the misogyny and the diminishing of womens’ identities, and how they are reduced to someone only to support and help their husband. It is crazy to see that some of that happened into the eighties and on even after working, independent, strong women were normalized. It also brings to mind how this is still going on all over the world and how it could be in our own backyards without knowing.
Only three episodes have been released and I’ve already fallen in love with every aspect of this series. If you’re considering watching this show, I highly encourage it is very educational with good representative with stunning performances from every single actor on screen. If you made it all the way to here, I applaud you for reading my rant and I give you a medal for actually listening to me <3
If you watch it, please please please don’t hesitate to come yell at me about it! 
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