#flyingcatstiel has thoughts
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I’m currently reading superbat fics (sorry, destiel, stony and dinluke, I’ll get back to you some day) and I’m having great time with commenting and authors replying to me. It’s a whole new fandom experience when I can read fics just for personal enjoyment, without planning fic rec lists. So much easier to comment, wtf. Anyways, I’m following 4 superbat identity p*rn fics right now, and it’s glorious. What a feast. My favorite trope, so many interesting ways to explore it. Happy holidays to all superbat writers but especially those 4 WIP writers🎄
ETA - here be some recs
ETA, March 2024 - HERE BE SOME UPDATES!
@pinkb00bsocks asked about those 4 WIPs. Here they are! The usual disclaimer - there are plenty of excellent superbat WIPs going on right now, but I've limited spoons and these are the ones I currently enjoy.
The World and All Its Hedgehogs by Ginevra_Benci [M. 8,007 word count, WIP, 4/?] To investigate illegal arms sale taking place at a tropical resort hotel, Batman goes under cover as a vacuous billionaire Brucie Wayne and Superman takes a part time job as a porter. They didn't coordinate this, they don't know each others civilian identities. Every time they talk there are at least 3 different conversations going on and it is glorious. Also, so much lust. ;)
(Also, check out Interviewing & Counceling series by the same author. Clark is having a superhero identity crisis and Bruce is there to catch Clark gently as he spirals down. It has one of the softest identity reveals in superbat fics. ETA - the series is now complete, it has 5 parts and 18k word count. Awesome ending to the softest identity reveal story)
Watching Our Stars Align by ClarkeStetler [M, 28,840 word count, WIP, 7/14] There's a dating/chatting app only for superheroes and all identities are secret. What could go wrong? Bruce and Clark get matched under their new pseuds, and same happens to Tim Drake and Conner Kent. Now fathers and sons gotta navigate complicated relationships that come with secret identities and judging your coworkers hastily while talking heart to heart to anonymous superhero. The identity porn part happens through DM, which just happens to be another favorite trope of mine. [The story is going strong, it has 10/14 chapters now and a wonderful tangle of 3 secret identities!]
(Love) Triangles Have Multiple Centers by frozenpotions [T, 27,281 word count, WIP, 4/10] This fic wastes no time getting playboy billionaire Brucie Wayne and pining-after-his-coworker journalist Clark Kent together. After that, first time uneasy partners Batman and Superman gotta solve a case and their civilian selves gotta deal with the realities of their one night stand. Complicated doesn't even cover it! [The fic is being updated and Clark and Bruce are being put through new trials, 6/10 chapters]
A Favor for a Friend by RedFive [Explicit, 18,286 word count, WIP, 4/7] Omega verse fic with alpha playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne and omega journalist Clark Kent. I'm fascinated by dominant, flirtatious, sexually ravenous alpha Brucie Wayne who moonlights as a stoic, covered in scent blockers thus unclear second gender, Batman. Meanwhile omega Clark, due to being Kryptonian, is much less ruled by his second gender. That is, until he meets Mr. Wayne. This fic has so much lust and tension between the two. Does accidental heat triggering counts as a soulmate mark? I'm gonna count it like that. [The fic has entered the finish line, only a chapter or two are left to finish this wild, explosive, life changing story of two people who were meant for each other. 8/? chapters, 44k word count] The fic is now complete!!! 9 chapters, 56,153 word count. (Also, there's this new TV show about two gay dudes, and istg, they look like Bruce and Clark from this fic. I'm not naming it here because I don't want to highjack the show tag with superbat post, but go and check the tag on tumblr)
*****
And a special shout out to two identity shenanigan WIPs that are not actively updating but are absolute must reads.
ship-to-ship combat by pomeloquat [M, 62,737 word count, WIP, 12/13] OK, so, for me personally, this is the ultimate identity p*rn fic across all fandoms I've read so far. This fic has one of the highest amount of secret identity pairs in superbat fics. There's the usual pining silently Batman/Superman, then there's Clark dating Bruce, Superman saving Bruce Wayne from peril, Clark Kent chatting with Batman. And the cherry on top is Clark writing Bruceman fanfic which is basically a RPF of his two friends, Batman and Bruce Wayne. Which leads to an internet friendship with a fellow fan, who is, you guessed, Bruce. This fic has great reflections on fandom and shipping culture. But the very beating heart of this fic is about how easy it is to lose something you wished to have but were afraid to ask for. The fic, at 12/13, is technically a WIP, but the main reveal is already done, and it is glorious. ETA - THIS IS NOT A DRILL, the fic is finished and the last chapter is a super meta cherry on a top of delicious, layered superhero identity and fandom shenanigans parfait. 13 chapters, 76,7k word count.
10 Things Every Brucie Fan Needs in Their Life by pomeloquat [T, 8,956 word count, WIP, 5/10] The main premise of this fic is hilarious and yet so, so right. Bruce Wayne is promoting himself as a nation's boyfriend instead of a playboy, and is making bank out of his wholesome, PG rated merchandise. The chapters of this fic tell continuous story but they also can be read as separate vignettes, so there's really no cliffhanger. This fic is so soft and fluffy, it will heal your soul. Also, Superman has celebrity crush on Bruce Wayne. Batman is amused.
#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#I’m doing small superbat reblog spree tonight#just to get everything out of my drafts#superbat#identity p*rn#identity shenanigans#superbat fic recs#i already added these to the reblog#but eh#let's ad them here as well#add#i worked hard on them#sometimes i forget how to tumblr#fic rec of the day
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5.5 years of Destielfanfic, Vol. 1
Let us tell you a story...
DFF started on August 28, 2012 with a review of Thursday’s Child by strangenessandcharm and in the next four days, the mods posted 28 reviews! Very frequent posting and answering all anon asks was a critical feature that helped us to gain unexpected popularity really fast. It was just before the premier of Season 8 and people were pouring into fandom, eager for fic!
Many features that we now consider essential to the DFF experience, were introduced during that very first year. We must thank our mod Char for having and implementing a clear vision of a fandom blog.
Note about mods
Alice/bbcsherlockian started DFF alone, but was almost immediately joined by Char/mbrry. Alice left the blog in the Spring of 2013 and Char bowed out in the Summer of 2015.
Current mods, Flyingcatstiel and Kyrie were lurking around and helping with asks and reviews since blog’s early days but became official mods in January 2013 and January 2014, respectively.
Year One: Season 8 (August 28, 2012 - September 31, 2013)
Below the cut are some key milestones of that first year! Links go to posts on the blog.
That nitty gritty blog stuff
Some of our technical features were started right off the bat such as our Twitter account (October 3, 2012) and the Google Custom Search Engine (December 9, 2012). A favorite technical feature added in March 2013 was the Random review button. It is linked on the side bar next to the random post button. Have you tried it yet? Here's post to help you to find it (and this is why we always tell folks to visit us on desktop)!
If you know DFF, you know we love organising and tagging fic! The Beginning of Tags page as we know it happened shortly thereafter with the Tags layout being finalized mid-February 2013. In April 2013 we made the first of many major reference tag posts. Not surprisingly, it was for High School AUs, a fan favorite! These reference posts serve as a content table to some of our most overloaded tags. Check out all of them on #reference post tag. Another type of tag we added were ones to identify our mods to address asks about who reviewed what fic such as this about the flyingcatstiel tag. To this day, we still get asks about our stalwart mod!
With all these new features, a Guide to DFF was developed and published at the end of March 2013, to help our followers to get around our blog and we posed an FAQ the next month.
Organising and Streamlining
As we continued to gain followers (see below), they were eager to share their favorite fics with us so we could promote them on the blog. At this point, we just posted the links and tagged them with unofficial tag. There was no oversight or tagging, and it became clear we had to find a better way to handle these submitted recs. So we started the Unofficial rec bulletin and Bulletin #1 posted on March 9, 2013. There are now 173 Bulletins and you can find them all on the #unofficial rec bulletin tag. Feel free to browse those pre-bulletin recs on the unofficial tag, but be aware that they are untagged and quite a few links could be broken.
Just like the submitted recs, asks were also getting overwhelming! That same March, we started the Group asks to seek help from our followers for questions that the mods couldn’t answer. Check out Group Asks #1! There are now 167 Group Asks under our #group asks tag!
We love our followers!
Frequent posting and answering all asks resulted in a rapid growth of our follower count. We celebrated our first 1,000 followers on December 27, 2012, and 2,000 followers on February 16, 2013. By April 2013 we had 4,000 followers and celebrated with a post about our Most Popular reviews. By the time Season 8 ended and summer rolled around, we were celebrating 6,000 followers (June 2013). We marked this milestone by launching a new blog, DestielFanWorks, and 4 brand new thematic fic rec lists - Western Destiel, Micheal!Dean Destiel, Medieval Fantasy Destiel, Reverse!Verse Destiel. These were joined by our Athletic Rec List a month later.
Soon we had to stop celebrating follower milestones with special posts since the blog was gaining ~1k followers per month during the first year. Season 8 of SPN was a very exciting time in fandom and DFF just happened to be here to help with fics. We still can’t believe the amount of asks that got answered almost daily during the first year. Very soon it became clear that something needs to be done to streamline ask posts, to reduce repeat asks, to lessen clutter on our follower dashes and to keep mods sane. 25 posts in one day will do that.
DFF and fandom
DFF has always tried to stay away from heightened emotions of fandom life and provide a calm oasis to all fic readers. But mods are just fans and sometimes we have things to say. ;)
After 8x17, “Goodbye Stranger” on March 21, 2013, we renamed our Twist and Shout recovery tag to Feelings Recovery as described in this post. Even now, we direct people there after particularly difficult events. Our ask about what fics we would rec to Misha Collins became a favorite after we posted it in March 2013 because it highlighted that not all fanfic is porn. However, please don’t take this as an invitation to show fic to actors!
The publishing of Point Pleasant became another fandom event we supported. For those who don’t remember, Point Pleasant by chainedtoacomet was a very popular destiel fic in 2012/2013. When author decided to publish it, she asked DFF to get the word out about upcoming deletion of fic from AO3. We gladly helped with promos on DFF and DFW. (See this post about destiel fics we know of that were published and where to buy them.)
Sometimes, mods just... *clenches fist*
DFF mods learned the hard way that answering all anon asks fast leads to more asks. A lot of thought and effort was put into measures that would help us to curb repetitive anon asks, like our New to Destiel Guide, so the mods could actually read and rec fic instead of answering yet another ask about a high school fic. This led to our first PSA about (mostly) Anon Asks April 20, 2013. The situation didn’t change much and we had to make another post about limiting our response (July 11, 2013), and more posts, X, X (July 27, 2013) . Which was met with some rude comments in our inbox X, X, but also support from followers for standing up and defending our boundaries. In the end, we drafted a Mission Statement (July 29, 2013) to clarify the purpose of our blog. So, if you ever wondered why the anon was switched off or why some asks got deleted, this is the answer.
About fic Ratings
A lot of our current followers may not know that DFF used to rate reviewed fics on ABC scale. The mods did their best to be polite but still give an honest rating of the fic. Our A and A+ tags were among most visited tags on the blog and deemed to be helpful to readers. We explained our use of ratings in this answer post, June 4, 2013. DFF fic ratings however came back to bite us in the most unexpected way when some authors got hate because we rated their fics with an A+. To protect authors and to fight hate, DFF swiftly removed all ratings as described in this PSA about removing ratings (August 5, 2013). We had to adjust our reviewing style afterwards, but we now strongly believe in a no-rating fic reviews. It was the best decision DFF mods ever made and just in time for our first anniversary.
DFF 1 Year Anniversary, August 28, 2013. To give back to fandom and to celebrate fanfic, DFF mods invited selected fic authors and followers to share their favorite fics. See this Anniversary Post that lists all Author & Follower spotlights that were prepared for this anniversary. We also posted Personal Favorites rec list and Blog Statistics post.
tl:dr - all posts about blog stuff are tagged with #about tag, we also have a #PSA tag for all PSAs we posted. Check out our old #unofficial tag for early, mostly follower generated fic recs on this blog. We also have #uncategorized ask tag for those asks that just defied all our tags!
Note - links to tags do not work on mobile...thanks tumblr!
Link to 5.5 years with destielfanfic Vol.2
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Rules: Always post the rules, answer the questions given to you, then write 10 questions of your own, and tag 10 other people.
I was tagged first by @procasdeanating and then by @flyingcatstiel, so I’ll be an overachiever and answer both! Sheesh, the size of this thing. :D Sorry this took so long!
1. If you could start a one week vacation tomorrow, where would you go?
Italy! I’ve never been there, and the weather there is so much better than here right now. Also, I’ve always wanted to visit just to eat the food. (Priorities!)
2. What skill do you have that would come handy in an apocalyptic world?
Uhh. Probably would depend on the type of apocalypse? If there are zombies, I have a shotgun and I know how to use it. But I’m afraid I wouldn’t survive out in the wild for a week, if the food ran out.
3. Favorite episode last season?
I...I didn’t watch the season entirely, so I’m not going to say anything. ^^;
4. Can you play an instrument or do you plan to learn?
Yup! I’ve played piano since I was five years old. I haven’t practiced properly in years, though, so I’m not as good as I used to be. I’ve also taken singing lessons for a year, and I’m not good, but I’m learning.
5. Raspberries or strawberries?
Both. But if pressed, I’d say strawberries.
6. Who do you want to see brought back in the Alternative Universe next season?
Charlie! She’s my favorite, and I refuse to accept the thing they did to her.
7. First movie you saw at a cinema?
Aladdin. WIthout giving away which aging crisis I’m currently going through, I was fairly young.
8. Favorite version of Cas?
I’m gonna go with the classic, season 4 Cas. I love his story arc from seasons 4 to 5, and how he goes from being an asshole with orders to questioning, how he’s unsure, how he clearly grows to care and how he battles with his emotions. (Unpopular opinion? I don’t care for endverse Cas, and never have. I don’t think it fits him at all.)
9. If you could choose a song as a music cue next season, what would it be and for which scene would you use it?
Aaaah! I...I don’t know. Uhhh. I guess Gimme Shelter has always had kind of a SPN-esque feel to it, but...I don’t know where it would fit. (Oh, hey, it apparently was used in season 11! Thanks, google.) Um. I’m probably defaulting to fandom’s favorites here, but I’ve always listened to Florence + the Machine’s Breath of Life and No Light, No Light as Castiel’s unofficial themes. Maybe those could be used in his re-introduction?
10. This weekend is VanCon. What question would you ask the cast if you were there?
Jeez, this is why I don’t go to cons. I wouldn’t be able to ask them anything. Honestly, I don’t even understand how people come up with questions for them anymore - everything has been asked twice, save for new developments in the series. Uhh. If I got a serious answer out of him, I’d ask especially Misha his thoughts about the series and what he really thinks about the storylines Castiel has been through.
Thanks for tagging me, @procasdeanating!
Onto @flyingcatstiel‘s questions! And thank you so much for mentioning my fics - it always makes my day whenever someone recs my silly stuff! <3
1. How many languages do you speak? List them, even if still learning or already forgetting.
My mother tongue is Finnish, but besides that, I know English (obviously), Swedish, German, Japanese and very little Korean. Sadly, my German and my Japanese aren’t very good, since I haven’t spoken them in such a long time that I’ve forgotten a lot. I’ve also (slowly, on my own) started learning Italian, but that’s basically at the “hello my name is” stage at this point.
2. Favorite Dean/Cas moment on the show?
Oh noooo. I love the little, quiet moments between them, like in season 8 when Cas is sitting on the bed and going through Dean’s bag and they’re just talking, or little touches between them. Or god, the unguarded happiness radiating from Dean when he finally is reunited with Cas in Purgatory and the hug...! But I’m gonna go with the classic and say Castiel’s introduction - the way he strolls into the barn and Dean puts a knife in his chest. I love how far they’ve come from the first impressions! :D
3. Favorite fanfic tropes in destiel fics?
Fake dating fake dating fake dating!!! I live for fake dating fics in any fandom. I also love mutual pining and slow burn. More specifically for SPN tropes, I love it when Cas is an angel/creature and Dean is human, wheather it’s in canon or AU setting.
4. Fruit or vegetable you don’t like (mango is not an acceptable answer, pick another one)
I’m good with most, but I can’t stand pineapple. (Mangos are delicious, as a sidenote. :D)
5. Tell me about a destiel fic you’ve read recently and really enjoyed. [please include title, author and link]
I really loved superhoney’s Rescue Me Tonight. Victorian setting and pining, what more could you ask for? Just wonderful. And Ahaviel’s Hunt for a Healing Halo was lovely, and amazingly meta - also, I kinda love fics where the author shows they have specific knowledge about something.
6. Which one of your own (recent) fan works (fic, art, gif set, vid, side blog, etc) you are proud of? If you don’t have any, give a shout out to a (recent) fan work that you really loved. [any fandom, please include title, creator and link]
I don’t have anything recent... I haven’t finished anything in such a long time that I’m ashamed. I hate it. :/ But I’m kind of proud of an unfinished fic that I will definitely finish for Christmas, if only because of the idea. Um. But I really liked Ties That Bind by squirrel_loves_wings - magic and fantasy, and I love the world and its possibilities! Also, I’m mentioning another fic by superhoney, The Watcher and The Warrior. It’s been a long, long time since I’ve seen a fantasy world constructed so carefully, so fully in fic.
7. Recommend me a new TV show to take my mind of SPN. Tell me why it will help.
I will always recommend Brooklyn Nine-Nine, but you already watch that, so... Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries. It’s a light-hearted crime show with a lady detective in the lead, taking place in Australia...in 1920s! It’s got a lot of fabulous dresses, wonderful female characters, well written stories, and lovely relationships between lead characters. I love it.
8. Are you going to watch season 13 of Supernatural? If not, when did you stop watching the show? (I’d love to know why but you don’t have to justify your decision)
Maybe. I, um, I feel called out, but I have to admit I stopped watching in season 9. I do own all the seasons on DVD, but I still haven’t watched the newer seasons, except for some episodes. I think I’m pretty caught up on the series thanks to tumblr, though. I stopped watching when it made me too anxious, and I didn’t want to witness my favorites dying (Kevin, Charlie, and I’m sure I’d love Eileen and Billie and whoever else). Plus all the other problems with the series kept piling up, not to mention how they didn’t seem to know how to write Cas...I’ve stayed in the fandom for the characters and the wonderful content fandom keeps making, and that’s fine with me.
9. Cats or dogs?
Dogs! I like cats, too, but I’m so allergic to them that I’ve never been able to spend much time with them.
10. What is your happy ending for Cas on the show?
*grumbles* What are the chances that Cas even gets a happy ending in this show... Um, I’d want to see him stay with Dean and Sam (if we’re being unrealistic, share a home with Dean and be in an unambigious, romantic relationship with Dean, but this is SPN, so that’s never going to happen). I’ve always liked the idea of Cas ending up as a hybrid, angel with a soul, so that he’s basically cut off from Heaven and somewhat human, but still retains some of his angelic qualities. Best of both worlds, kind of? Basically, I just want him to be happy. ;_;
Thanks for tagging me, @flyingcatstiel!
My questions:
1. Autumn or spring?
2. What is your introductory fic to SPN fandom, or which fic drew you in?
3. How many countries have you visited?
4. What is your favorite book and/or writer?
5. What’s the latest movie you’ve seen in theaters?
6. Cinematically, what is your favorite SPN episode? Not because of the plot or the lack thereof, but because of the shots and angles?
7. What movie/book/TV show world would you like to visit, or even live in?
8. What’s the last CD you bought?
9. What are your favorite tropes in fanfic?
10. Comments versus kudos - which do you prefer, both leaving and getting for a fic?
Tagging @nihonlove @apermanentsituation @i-am-mad-as-a-box-of-frogs @beanmom @the-suit-lady @everythingsinred @spellboundcastiel @awed-frog @zerostumbleine33 @reallyelegantsharkfish No pressure to answer this, though!
#long post#this is so long i apologize#ask meme#you can't believe how long filling this out took#tumblr doesn't work on my laptop well anymore because my laptop is ancient#but i finally did it
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Tagged!
Rules: Always post the rules, answer the questions given to you, then write 10 questions of your own, and tag 10 other people.
I was tagged by the awesome @flyingcatstiel to answer some questions so HERE I GO
1. How many languages do you speak? List them, even if still learning or already forgetting.
Okay, in order of spoken most to spoken least: Italian, French, Spanish, Turkish, Indonesian, Russian. my Turkish is not strong and below Turkish we start to get very rudimentary, but I’m learning! I also have a smattering of German, and I can read Portuguese and Latin pretty well but I can’t speak them.
2. Favorite Dean/Cas moment on the show?
Oh, man. OK, I’m gonna go with The Crypt Scene, closely followed by the hug in Purgatory. *clutches chest*
3. Favorite fanfic tropes in destiel fics?
to read, it’s probably.... fake dating. dear lord I love me some fake dating with a heavy side of mutual pining and if there’s bedsharing WHILE pining then I’m out for the count. actually, writing that is awesome, too...
4. Fruit or vegetable you don’t like (mango is not an acceptable answer, pick another one)
Why do I feel called out by this question?? OK, OK, we’ll go with kiwi fruits, then. though I’m not too hot on pineapples either. :D
5. Tell me about a destiel fic you’ve read recently and really enjoyed. [please include title, author and link]
I recently started reading the new chapter of The Owl Prince by K_K_TiBal on AO3, and gosh do I love that story. The Swan Princess AU I have always needed. <3
6. Which one of your own (recent) fan works (fic, art, gif set, vid, side blog, etc) you are proud of? If you don’t have any, give a shout out to a (recent) fan work that you really loved. [any fandom, please include title, creator and link]
I’m proud of how True as it Can Be, the Beauty and the Beast AU fic I wrote for the DeanCas Reverse Bang, came out!! I worked super hard on it and I love love loved writing it. :D
7. Recommend me a new TV show to take my mind off SPN. Tell me why it will help.
I’m gonna go with... The Great British Bake Off. it’s just... it’s light and fluffy and happy and you get so into it. and the two hosts are awesome, honestly Sue Perkins has been something of a queer idol for me since forever, so just. JUST TRY IT OK season 6 is my fave!! if you’re wanting to try it, start with season 6.01. merry and delicious distraction guaranteed.
8. Are you going to watch season 13 of Supernatural? If not, when did you stop watching the show? (I’d love to know why but you don’t have to justify your decision)
I’m intrigued by the concept of the parallel universe that seems to be going on, so I will probably check out the first episode, at least! that said, I felt the same way about demon!dean and then was disappointed by the execution. I stopped watching regularly partway into season nine... I love these characters so much and I felt like the writing was doing them such continual disservices that I found myself annoyed after each episode rather than enjoying it. hence, I retreated into fandom and enjoy the characters here instead! ;D (I did watch one ep of the eleventh season, though, Baby, which I thought was magnificent.)
9. Cats or dogs?
both? both. both is good.
10. What is your happy ending for Cas on the show?
ooooh, tricky question!! I’ve literally been thinking about this for about 20 minutes now. I think what I’d really like for Cas is... an uncomplicated villain. as in, an antagonist who is unquestionably in the wrong, hard to beat, absolutely evil, and very powerful. I’d love to see Cas go up against something like that and just be able to throw his whole self into the fight, pitch all his skills and might into that battle without having to doubt himself morally about it. just go all out. I want him to save so many lives and I want him to win, obviously, with the help of Dean and Sam, who he’ll have asked for help. the entire thing would fill his mind, and he’d be able to sort of... expunge himself? it’d be hard, but I think it’d feel like a penitence, and when he was done, I think he’d feel strong and washed a little cleaner. that’d be the happy ending. it’d be like Purgatory on Earth, I suppose? and yes, I do definitely want it to come with the requisite Dean/Cas Purgatory moments, because... I super think that Cas is in love with Dean, and I think that their togetherness would be a huge part of his happiness.
And now my questions!!!
1. Which fictional character would you most like to be friends with?
2. Which fictional universe would you most like to be a background character in?
3. If you were a flavour of ice cream, which one would you be?
4. What’s a sentence you’ve never written before?
5. If you could show me one of your memories, which one would it be?
6. If you had an aura, what colour would it be?
7. Space or sea?
8. What are you most proud of right now?
9. In the middle of the road, you find what you’ve always been hoping for. What is it?
10. What’s your favourite word to say out loud?
I’m tagging @perdizzion, @thebloggerbloggerfun, @destieldrabblesdaily, @purgatory-jar, @linneart, @casthewise, @crxstalcas, @mad-the-swine, @shieldmaidenofsherwood, @midnightwings--honeybees, @iffeelscouldkill and @zcnorth <3 also, back at u @flyingcatstiel!!
#tag games for ts#long post for ts#no pressure you guys!!!#tag me if you answer the questions though#I'm super intrigued to hear your answers#<3333
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@flyingcatstiel
Well, yea, that’s why I stressed that this is really my wishful thinking based on a very little real life info. I mean, Misha goes, I go and I can finally be free, who wouldn’t want to be free??
It is interesting tho that you mention two young children Misha has to provide for. I almost included my thoughts on this argument but left it out since the post was already too long. I’ve seen this argument going around for years in regards to both stars and Misha and it always struck as demeaning to all other SPN fans who raise their families on much smaller salaries? Like, if Misha leaves the show he’s broke and homeless, which is not? And yes, acting jobs are hard to come by but there’re other jobs in the industry like producing, directing, etc, etc? And I’m pretty sure Misha will still be invited to cons even if he quits the show, so that money is not disappearing.
A year or two ago I’d agree with you that Misha would never quit the show on his own will, but we are on season 12 which nobody expected. And there’s no end in sight. We don’t know what kind of future projects he had to postpone, we don’t know if working on the show has the same shine as it did in season 8. These things accumulate with time. And please don’t forget that he still have to work together with people who doesn’t share his political beliefs. The situation in US right now is frightening even for me who lives in Asia. The most crucial time for resistance is RIGHT NOW. If Americans don’t raise their voice right now, there’ll be no democracy left. Yes, political activism doesn’t pay but that’s not why people do it. If we would expect money from our freedom fights, there’d be no revolutionaries left.
In conclusion, we literally have no idea what Misha is thinking, so these are pure speculations based on our wishes for him to stay or go. But the very fact that we are talking about this is interesting. Apparently I wasn’t the only one with such idea. ;)
OMG fellow Asian! *high fives*
Sorry got distracted by that :)
Hmm, you do have a point and I agree - god knows I wasn’t trying to insult Misha by saying he’ll be homeless or something if he quits the show. And like you said, he might do behind the scenes work (which should free up a lot of his time), and of course he’ll still be on the con circuit, which pays really well? I guess. And yes, there is clearly no end in sight for the show, with 13 coming out soon, but with Cas gone? I wonder how they’ll sustain the show. The boys have lost so much already- perhaps Mary can be the new Cas? Sometimes on, sometimes off ally? *wails*
(Wild speculation ahead)
Somehow I always felt he wasn’t as well-paid as the two Js, though this may have changed recently.
It’s just.. the tweet he put out yesterday, promising he’ll donate 10K himself if 2K people join Kim’s campaign and that is a LOT of money too (and I’m so proud of him being so generous and selfless, how many people are like that?). It’s just.. I suppose I keep flashing back to Misha saying he bought a pair of fancy shoes with his first (?) paycheck from Supernatural, so he probably didn’t have a lot saved up before SPN. I know he’s been on the show for 8+ seasons now though, so possibly enough to build up a decent amount of savings- something that’ll enable him to do all the charity work that he does.
I’m so confused now I don’t know what to think- on the one hand, I want Misha to actually do what he wants to do, but then again I will miss him...
Stupid Trump. This is all YOUR fault.
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@impostoradult answered to my previous comments here. This is a huge discussion and fandom is barely starting it. Emotions run high because there’s sense of dread and helplessness, so, no, not all arguments are very rational but the thing is. The thing is we are talking about fandom space. Hobby space. Place where we are supposed to create and relax, and interact with other fans. Connections are supposed to be between humans. I want to know which blorbo lives rent free in my mutual’s head because I care about my mutual, not which blorbo is being squeezed through AI algorithm.
Fandom is barely coming out of creators/consumers debate debacle. I’d say that lots of fans are still struggling with the idea that monetizing your hobby is bad for you and the hobby (and posting money links on AO3 is against their ToS). And now we are facing possibility where one person’s hobby will have to compete with AI product based on all fanworks combined.
Here’s some points from @impostoradult’s comment I wanted to answer directly.
And so, to address some of your other points in more depth - if someone writing fic doesn't have an original take (and isn't even necessarily trying to have an original take) we still don't consider that a problem in fandom.
The reason why fans have no problem with repetitive fics in fandom is because we value people behind those fics, and because we consider those people integral to our fandom experience. Yes, their fic may be repetitive, amateurish and full of cliches but that is not their only contribution to fandom. A lot of fic writers run excellent fandom blogs, reblog posts and support of other creators, make gifs, mod challenges and discords. Even if they’re just lurkers, they contribute to fandom in many small ways. No AI is gonna do that for us. And it is accepted that every writer has to start somewhere, their first fics may not be the best, but they still will reflect on fandom trends. If we want to read amazing fics some day, we must support beginner writers now. When I see a bunch of similar tropey fics in my fandom, I know that my fandom is thriving. There’s a person behind each fic, there’s dialogue, there’s collective creative ping pong, there’s belonging to a group. (and then there’s Goncharov)
In fact, often times we value stories BECAUSE they so closely imitate things we've consumed before. We JOKE in fandom about the fact that we'll read 500 stories with the exact same premise that all end up the exact same way. We often overtly VALUE the highly imitative nature of storytelling (both in fandom and in wider world).
Yes, we JOKE on tumblr that if there are 500 fake dating fics, we will read them all and ask for more. But we NEVER read them all when we go to AO3. Sure, a popular trope will get an eyeballs on the fic and give it some hits, but it does not guarantee that people will kudos, comment and keep reccing the fic only because it has that popular trope. I speak from my experience as a destiel fic reccer. There’s time when fake dating was very popular and lots of authors wrote fics with this trope for dcbb. Well, not all fics got the same attention and feedback. Sometimes even, fics with great tumblr promo posts and thousands of tumblr notes had very modest stats on AO3. Because at the end of the day, supporting idea on tumblr is easy. Reading the fic, and then engaging with the author, takes effort. And most people spare that effort to fics they really liked. This is fandom dichotomy between “I want to support all my friends” and “I want to read only good fics in the limited time that I have”.
Fic authors are very aware of this unbalanced feedback loop. It will get only harder if AI fics will flood the tags and take away some eyeballs. I think this is the main reason why so many fic writers and readers balk at the idea of untagged artificially produced fic. Such creation goes against the very nature of fandom. Commenting on a fic can lead to fandom friendships or just a positivity boost of “Hell, yea! I made another human happy with my comment!”. I’ve no idea how should I react to a fic that is a product of data filtering and squeezing even if I could admit that the end result is actually decent. Commenting on an AI fic is a dead end, ChatGPT will not write me another fic or discuss my blorbo with me.
A month or two ago, a troll or a spam bot was leaving comments on AO3 fics saying something like “ Work scanned, AI use detected “ which stressed out a lot of folks who didn’t know how to prove that they wrote the fic themselves. AI generated content is already being disruptive and it will impact and change fandom. The thing I’m trying to say here is that, AI fic is not bad because it’d be low quality or “without a soul”. It is bad news because it is disruptive to fandom as we know it in ways we can’t really predict yet. And that is scary.
#ao3#ai generated content#ai artwork#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#impostoradult#it is what it is#ai generated content is out of the bottle#and fandom will have to find a way to deal with it and survive#and I am not even talking about fans who prompt these ai fics#we are discussing ai fics here#but we are not mentioning fans who upload ai fics on ao3#how should we call them?#we are not talking about why people would want to generate ai fics
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Ok, it's late here and seems like a right time for some bats, err, batman. Batman and Superman. Superbat. Will reblog some posts rn, fair warning.
Btw, Superbat is such a cool ship name. it's a Fledermaus but magnificent. An exquisite, magnificent Fledermaus. I've been reading bunch of superbat fics for past couple of weeks, so my other ships kinda lost steam. No worries, I'll get back to them. This blog is not turning into superbat blog yet.
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What are your thoughts on Jack? I remember back in s12 there was a lot of negativity about Jack backwashing of Cas, but that kinda fizzled out when we met him in s13. He like him but I think the show didnt build up the found family aspect enough but just used that label and "son" on Jack without being earned and his kinda creepy behaviour in s12 was forgotten
Yea, you basically summed up my problems with Jack as a character - there's no buildup to family, there's no real connection between Jack and Cas. There's only statements and labels, and things that supposedly happened off screen. Sometimes I think part of the problem is that this is how a lot of men including spn writers perceive fatherhood - statements, declarations, acts of great sacrifice instead of nitty gritty daily interactions. Absent fathers TM. Cas died before Jack was born, Jack run away in the episode with Cas' return. The writers kept yanking them around, and then Dean was the one who got the bonding trip with Jack.
If you take a look through may blog, you may notice that there's very few posts with Jack. I refuse to reblog posts with Jack lol because I still believe that Jack was introduced to reduce Cas screen time and keep Cas away from the bunker. For a very long time I expected Jack to be actually evil, like you said, due to all brainwashing in s12. My other thought was, well, if Jack is supposed to be good why it had to be a white male vessel? If the show is adding another white actor to the core cast of 3 white dudes surely he will be evil and die soon? Otherwise the show could have had a girl or a POC. Imagine if Jack was a nephilim and a biracial kid? So yeah, I expected Jack to be evil and die soon. But then 13x01 happened and fandom fell in love with a character that was blatantly copying Cas. For a moment there really was a feeling that Jack will replace Cas and fandom will not even bat an eye because *nougat*. At the time, I thought that Jack's popularity is due to Alex's charm and copy cat Cas behavior, but now I think there's also another reason. Fans want not only ship but also dads. So, here we are now, dadstiel is everywhere and I still refuse to reblog Jack content. I guess I still feel that Jack was created to diminish destiel relationship on the show by throwing dadstiel bone to fans. And I can understand why young fans find dadstiel idea comforting even if it is just statements and big gestures, but I kinda expected more from fans who are parents themselves. Like dude (gn), no, that is not parenting or family. That is not how you write found family. Idk, to me it felt very shallow and empty (pun not intended). And in the end there was no found family, so no wonder that it felt so half assed.
#anon#asks#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#sorry about late answer nonnie#this is kinda sensitive topic lol#there's so much love for jack on my dash#so i usually keep silent#but in the end#jack had a raw deal just like all of them#i wouldn't be surprised#to hear that spn writers themselves were not sure#about jack being good or bad for a long time#they just needed someone who can do miracles#so that they could keep ignoring cas
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To come back to the message about Dean/Cas acting closer if C-W wouldnt fear a "too gay look"; I'm just rewatching s11 (ep10 in the back rn) and I'm shocked. I forgot how honestly distant everyone is acting, Sam and Dean bickering if Sam should go into the cage? Legit just two guys growling at each other. If you watch new shows most male platonic relationships are honestly all emotionally, phyiscally etc more intimate and shown without as much restraint
Ohhh, episode 10, The Devil in the Details, the one with Cas saying YES to Lucifer because Lucifer was literally chocking Dean, and Sam forgot to tell Cas that they are just stalling for time. Start of Lucifer!cas stretch of the show aka Misha has screen time but Cas is still missing timeline. That was devious.
But going back to Sam and Dean bickering in season 11. It was a weird season, to be honest. We didn’t know, and really still don’t know, what happened behind scenes but the show was limping forward after so called Carver 3 seasons plan that infamously didn’t end with season 10 finale. Only after season 11 finale fandom realized that power transfer must have happened much earlier. So, I can imagine that a lack of clear leadership made the writers to fall back on good old staple of Sam and Dean bickering and growling at each other. And yeah, I agree that more recent shows have better male platonic relationships. SPN never dared to change their formula much or to develop a lasting conflict/ consequences story between Sam and Dean, or even let them grow and mature. Again, we actually do not know what was the deciding factor in this. I so hope that one day we will get a scathing ‘tell all’ from someone close to the show. I am also waiting for more new fan reactions as they marathon all 15 seasons already knowing how it ends, and without J2 input via cons and social media. It’s time for SPN to stand on it’s own shaky legs, without fandom propping it up.
#anon#asks#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#i saw a recent gossip that j2 divorce is still ongoing?#like they are not hanging out recently#so gosh who knows what WAS happening behind the scenes#we have heard about some tension and pranks#maybe that bickering also has more reality to it#i don't remember now but i think#they also had to decide about continuing the show or not#and new contracts and what now#*not
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I feel really dumb for asking this but I am not super involved in the SPN fandom these days but can you explain the [gunshot] [omitted] [redacted] meme I keep seeing on my dashboard since the big jared gutted drama? I'm sorry :(
Oh, this is an interesting question, I’m not sure I know how it started but I can try. But you know, like with all memes this is more about gut feeling than logical explanation. If someone has better ideas, chime in in notes!
Ok, iirc [gunshot] has been used already for some time, in tags or short posts. I think it’s used in place of a word that we think would be cut out by the CW. Idk if this goes together with CW sniper meme? The usage relies on the reader actually knowing which word is being replaced. Something like - We know that Dean and Cas are in [gunshot]. Point being that saying out loud that they are in love will get you killed. It’s a hyperbole of course but sometimes it feels like it in fandom, what with all homophobia and anti destiel peeps. Or like questions about destiel were literally forbidden in Creation Cons.
Same goes with [redacted]. It’s just a less violent way to say the higher powers didn’t like something and it was removed. Like we KNOW what was supposed to be there , but it was taken out and that’s how we know it was gay and destiel-y. Like any meme, it is also open to interpretation I think. The point is that something was removed bc it was too gay. And then we sometimes even get a proof what exactly was removed. Most proof comes from spn scripts nowadays. Like just yesterday we learned that 12x19 script actually had the paradise vision that Jack shoved to Cas. And it was very very destielly.
Now, [omitted] is the most recent one. I think it comes from spn finale script reveal where they literally printed [OMITTED] instead of certain scenes. Which was just a stone cold proof that yeah, a lot of scripted material was either redacted or omitted from final shooting scripts or even left on cutting room floor. I always thought this meme is an expression of fandom’s powerlessness but with an angry bite back. Like we know that destiel was written in the scripts but the only proof we have is the empty spaces, words redacted and omitted. So we turn this bitter feeling into a meme to say that we know. And like any meme it conveys the feeling instead of detailed information. That’s why it is used on short posts and in tags. So, nonny please don’t feel dumb for not getting it. It’s fandom speak and it’s not easy to keep up with it.
If you mean posts where all three words are used together, I think that’s a very recent development, after we got omitted. So we have a full set now. And then we got [gutted] thanks to j*red, so fandom is just running wild with these memes. In short, I think this particular meme is fandom dealing with the things we were robbed off. It’s an angry expression of knowing that we were right.
Ok, so I swear i think I reblogged post with [redacted] [omitted] [gutted] over Dean, Cas and Sam pics, and it is actually very fitting. Dean’s text was usually redacted, Cas was omitted/ his scenes cut out, and j*red is gutted bc it’s funny and he said it himself. ETA - found it!
#anons#meme#jared gutted#redacted omitted gutted#i tried to search my tags#but it's true what they say about tag search being#[gunshots]#idk if I explained it well#because the short explanation is#you feel it with you gut#sorry anon if i was not cohesive#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#ok lol tag search on mobile sux#only from desktop from now on
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I don't understand the fandom. How can anyone celebrate 15x18 when writers in a "Cas" episode retroactively annihilated Cas character and canonized his existence as an appendage to Dean as if Cas has no character or never showed kindness or love or compassion if not for Dean? Cas validated Jack's existence. It was like writers are spitting on Cas face saying, see, Cas will never get this validation. Cas doesn't matter. They must be laughing thinking how Cas fans are all morons.
Thank you for sending in this ask, anon! Ever since my bitter Cas!girl mutuals left tumblr, I’ve been wondering how hard core Cas girls are dealing with latest episodes. First of all, I just want to say that your feelings are totally valid even if they are different from the larger fandom mood. Unfortunately, that is how it often goes for Cas fans. I personally have very mixed feelings about Cas confession scene and its place in s15 narrative, but I also try to not dwell on them for too long because we still have 2 more episodes left. I can only offer you my perspective but I’m not trying to change your mind.
I loved Cas revelation that knowing Dean made him into a better person, a better angel. I don’t see it as Cas’s submission to Dean but rather as a result of long self discovery journey. Cas credits Dean, but any self improvement is a result of personal effort. Dean inspired, but Cas did all the heavy work himself. It takes a lot of character to work on self improvement and against one’s early programming. So, I don’t think that acknowledging it makes Cas weaker. And Cas has truly changed if you look back at early s4 and how Cas talked to Dean then. Cas’s heartfelt compassion towards humans came much, much later. I think one of the earliest cases is in s8 when Cas calms a crying baby? Now we are used to Cas showing compassion and healing people almost in every episode but that was not the case in the beginning. You can also say that the writers went for the classic trope of Love changes person for the better. Just like Mr. Darcy tells Lizzy that her reproach made him evaluate his own prideful behavior, Cas tells Dean that he learned how to love humanity from Dean. I personally think that no matter what happens in next 2 episodes, Cas has the best character development arc on SPN.
But I gotta agree with you about Cas giving validation to Jack, and Sam, and Dean, while never being on a receiving end of such emotional support. That is something I can’t really forgive SPN writers if this was really, truly, definitely Cas last scene. Ever since Amara called Cas expendable to his face in s11, I’ve been waiting for Dean and Sam to tell Cas that they value him for who he is, not for his angel powers. Without such validation Cas arc feels unfinished. So this is one of the reasons why I’ve decided to be cautiously hopeful to see Cas again and finally get some closure. If he doesn’t come back then yeah, SPN writers did dirty to Cas and Cas fans. Well, we will see I guess, very soon. We have waited so long.
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Do u think Misha’s in the finale at all😭
Honestly? I don’t know. I try not to think about it for the sake of my mind. There are moments when I hope he is not, so all these yelling metas would shut up for once. Seriously tho, this is a very heated topic right now and mostly I think people speak from their hearts ie people who want to believe in responsible story telling and that the show has some narrative logic, insist on Cas being important till the very end, and thus being in the finale. People who have been hurt by this show too many times find solace in believing that Misha as Cas is not in the finale. Accepting the worst outcome is also a well known defense mechanism because then the show can’t hurt you anymore, just pleasantly surprise with some crumbs.
The most baffling thing was the secrecy around Misha’s whereabouts during shooting the last episodes. I could see that that was an ill conceived and tone deaf PR move to generate some tension in fandom. But in that case I think it backfired badly because now we have people actually believing that Cas is not in the finale. Cas fans have been deceived and yanked around too many times, so now hard rule of the thumb is - no Cas in promos, no Cas in the episode.
At the same time, I can totally see that all secrecy around Misha was a deliberate PR move to hide from fandom that Cas is NOT in the finale. If the show is gonna spend the money to contain spoilers, it doesn’t matter how they spend it, may as well pay Misha to sit in a hotel. I see some posts insisting on the fact that Misha has contract for 15 episodes and that logically means that he must be in the finale. I can only assume that ppl who say this are recent fans who are not aware that Misha has had this contract for many seasons, including some where he was only in 13-14 episodes. This contract means that Misha is being paid for 15 episodes but not necessarily shooting 15 episodes. S13 was the first time when Misha was in 15 episodes and well, you remember how much screen time he had in 13x01, being all dead and very important. Do I want dead Cas in the finale? Nope.
So, I don’t know nonnie. I don’t know. Right know I think that we may get a little bit of Cas in finale? Like 1-2 minutes (or less) scene that Misha filmed in half a day and then went back to hide in the hotel? They don’t need Cas on screen to make him important or w/e. It’s all in the storytelling. Latest 3 episodes are actually hinting at Cas not being included. Cas fate now is tied to Jack and lololol we were not shown the conversation between Dean and Cas about Jack, we were just teased with it and then presented with same old, same old Dean and Sam hashing it out in the impala. Kinda tells you where their priorities are.
Do I think SPN writers could be so petty as to minimize Cas and Misha involvement in the finale? Yes, absolutely. Just look at what happened with The 100 finale. Things like this happen all the time.
#anons#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#spn spoilers#s15#final countdown#cas meta#idk nonnie#the way how they treated dean and cas conversation about jack#is very telling imo#they way it was used in promo trailer#then left as a cliffhanger#and then left off screen in favor of sam and dean screaming match?#not good#misha collins#where is misha#no cas no care
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1of2 Tired of metas blaming executives / defending writers. Writers can write horrible endings. Proof - GOT, HIMYM, Lost etc. Executives didn't force those bad endings. Reading all these conspiracy theories feels like I am listening to Trump. Executives are homophobic but ok with incestous ending? I asked my SO (who never watched SPN) to watch SPN final with me. I quote him "didn't you say they are brothers. It almost looks like they are going to kiss - Ewww - is this what you want me to watch?"
2of2 Even if we look at bottom line - Executives - apparently don't care the fact that Destiel was trending FIRST world wide - in middle of pandemic, middle of historic US elections - such free publicity to gain more viewers and money - but they care about incestous endings which grossed out lot of people. I wish these metas and conspiracy theorists stop baiting people and stop defending writers. Even before covid - Dabb had intended for this bad ending with proof that only 30% will like it.
Oh, nonnie. If you have sent this just 2 days ago, I’d be there with you, all salty about metas defending writers. Today tho, after going through some serious posts about the CW involvement with the show, about Russian market, about professional dubbing practices I have my thoughts in different order.
So, from what I’ve seen so far (barely past midnight November 26 in the US as of writing this). Jensen went to re record audio stuff for 15x18, most likely Cas confession scene. Now we have info from Latin America (2 separate dubs) that Dean actually reciprocated Cas’s love declaration and only after that The Empty took Cas. Nonnie, this changes everything. The first thing so many viewers noticed and commented on was the weird way the scene was cut and how little emotions Dean showed. The running gag on twitter was that Jensen is homophobic and Misha strong-armed him into that scene. Non shipper said that it was platonic love declaration from Cas, coming out of nowhere. But most importantly, we, shippers were robbed from proper celebration of our ship going canon. After 12 years of sticking with the ship, they still took it from us. This is totally on the CW shoulders.
But also, this means that destiel was at some point greenlit by the executives to be reciprocated in canon. Until someone at the CW backpaddled in late September. The writers are not responsible for this, they are victims of these changes as well. Dean’s answer changes the emotional beats of several scenes in 15x19 in addition to the scenes that were cut. 15x19 has that strange montage at the very end which most likely was added to cover cut scenes, say like Lucifer, Jack and Cas scene in the empty? Because if Misha was in 15x19, that would mean that the prank call was never meant to be his last contribution. I mean, the disrespect to the fans, the writers and Misha, all in one episode.
And then there’s 15x20 which looks so weird that a lot of fans immediately said that it is a butchered episode. Thing is, we have no idea what kind of script was written pre covid, how much it was changed and when, and how much was cut out from filmed episode. I’ve seen posts sayin that the script for 15x20 was still in rewrites when they finished filming for 15x18. Which is very, very late for a shooting script. I personally think that Dean’s death was the thing Jensen disliked so much, but even then - we don’t know how it was framed in earlier scripts and how they arrived at that horrific scene in 15x20.
I’m not saying that SPN writers are the most amazing TV writers out there, and I look forward times when we will be able to discuss all problematic stuff SPN is filled to the brim with, but. We just don’t know what exactly happened in the SPN writing room and how much executives meddled with it. COVID happened. Nothing of this is normal. This is why the most important thing right now is to pressure the CW for some answers. Look at them throwing Misha under the bus today. That tells you bunches how well they know fandom and how to manipulate us.
Now about that incestuous scene, aka Dean’s death, and why homophobic executives would be OK with it but not canon destiel. Under the cut we go, mostly for space reasons.
Ok, this is so funny but I actually just finished writing my second answer about wincest in 15x20 and had problems posting it and that’s how I learned that we broke tumblr and destiel went canon in spanish. Here’s my post, check it out bc I’m not repeating it here.
I think wincest, aka incest between two able bodied, adult male brothers is something casual viewer outside the fandom is not even thinking about. If it was sister/brother deal with intimate embrace, people would notice faster. But two masculine, 6 ft tall macho dudes during the death scene? Nope. Here comes plausible deniability which viewers also use to ignore anything “funny” between Dean and Cas. I’m glad that you and your partner noticed incest vibes, but, I’ve see plenty people even in destiel fandom being fine with such scenes between Sam and Dean. I’ve seen some destiel fans saying that they really loved 15x20, so, there are viewers out there for whom it worked.
Now let’s look at the bottom line. TBH, I’ve no idea where to look? Where is the projected revenues for a show that is ending? You say that Destiel trending during pandemic is a proof that our fandom is huge, but. No one knew that we had such power! And trending on twitter is not something that translates into money easily. And it happened 2 weeks before finale. There’s no time to change finale anymore. I personally think that destiel fandom has been shrinking for past couple of years, since so many folks left due to bad writing and queerbaiting. But they came back for tweeting. At this point destiel is bigger than it’s fandom. I personally think that the CW would have benefited from canon destiel, but they made different call.
I agree with you that in general, fandom should not defend the writers so much and ought to be more critical about the stuff they write, but today, November 26, 2020, the game is happening on completely different plane. I’m pretty sure that we got a butchered finale, and I’m very much inclined to believe that it is somehow connected to their efforts to promote The Walker show. Maybe Dabb’s original finale was really bad, but show me the script then. If destiel was supposed to be reciprocated, then they might have gone overboard with bro love in Dean’s death scene. Only now, when destiel was one-sided, that scene becomes very wincesty seemingly on purpose. A good creative writing, in it’s finished form, is a very tightly woven fabric. You pull out some threads, you unravel whole fabric. And that’s what 15x20 is.
2 days ago I’d be roasting metas who defend spn writers, today I want to storm the CW. (pitchforks anyone?) Destiel shippers were robbed, queer love story was censored, this should be the focus of or anger today, not the writers or actors. We can do both - demand truth about the Cas confession scene and roast original Dabb’s ending if we ever get it.
ETA - after writing this up, I checked out some posts by blogs who debunk all conspiracies, including Spanish dub. They sound very convincing! But in that case we have to talk about long term queerbaiting that was taking place on this old CW show till the very last minute. Cas was used in promos for 15x17 he was not in. They (ppl who make promos) deliberately used Cas barn scene from 4x01 in those promos, then actual barn in 15x20 promo but somehow it is shippers who are delusional? Don’t start me on Song of the day. Angel with a shotgun for 15x19? What was that about? After 15x18 there was no official goodbye to Cas which made ppl to watch finale. Like? Even if the Spanish dub gets officially debunked by the CW and not some random blogs, we are left with the fact that destiel fandom was gaslighted during the last stretch of s15. And not only by writers.
And if this was the finale they so lovingly crafted and deemed to be good, where are the celebration of the SPN ending? Why we had to watch documentary before the episode? Why 15x20 was so short? Why Canada watched the episode first (and leaked spoilers online) They filmed after quarantine, the script had to be the usual length. And so on, fandom has been through all the things that didn’t match several times already. PITCHFORKS -> the CW
#anons#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#spn finale is a gift that keeps on giving#15x18#15x20#andrew dabb#te amo#wincest for ts#///#i'm putting this in the queue#and I'll try to reblog more stuff re this issue#scroll down and read my tags#destielgate#PITCHFORKS
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Fandom has really hyped episode 18 like anything. I have this bad feeling that it’s not going to live up to the hype 😞and everyone’s gonna end up disappointed and raging at spn. Honestly I don’t think I can watch Sam and dean just move on from his death to fight the good fight. they r giving bronlies exactly what they want- Sam and Dean with their incestual son Jack.
Yeah, I’m very skeptical as well. So much hype from the show people never live up to all hysteria we develop here on the tumblr. It’s more of the same old, same old fanndom yanking around. Pushing our buttons. I’m actually curious what kind of promos we will get one day before the episode airs? I think Charlie is coming back? Our Charlie, not AU!Charlie? That would be some twisted symmetry if Cas and Charlie meet again only this time it’s Cas who dies for the Winchesters. This show could use a little bit less death and a little bit more love tbh.
About Sam and Dean moving on from Cas sacrifice/death. I think you mean that promo pic from the presumably finale where Dean and Sam are laughing outside? Eh, I kinda remember some spoilers that in 15x19 brothers are hit with amnesia and don’t remember Cas at all, so it could be that. And isn’t it convenient to have a penultimate episode where Cas doesn’t even exist in their memories? Such genius. But then again. One of the most happy Dean scenes in s11 happens in the next episode after Dean learnt that Cas said yes to Lucifer. I mean Dean having fun in the wrestling ring scene. So, canonically, Dean has no problem to be extremely happy even when he knows that Cas is in peril. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
About the show’s ending. I have no doubt that it will be brotherly love fest, because the show has been promoted till the very end as a show about two brothers against the world. They gotta stick to that tag line. The important stuff will be in the details. Will they bring back Caytlin from 15x16 for 5 second cameo to make heteros happy? Will we get some Cas in heaven cameo to soothe our hearts? Depends on what TPTB consider important. I’m sure they want to have ending that would encourage current fans to rewatch the show and attract new fans, but do they understand their own story well enough to write such ending? Just look at some recent bad ending disasters. I don’t think that those were intentional; and they happened because of 2 simple things - not understanding their own story and not understanding in which parts of this story fandom is invested. Maybe there’s time when Cas dying and a tacit nod to canon destiel would be enough for fandom. But not after s15, not after “you are dead to me”.
#spn spoilers#anons#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#final countdown#so brace yourself for s15#where is misha#no cas no care#15x18
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I mean I am so happy Meta's screaming of - "how important Cas is for ending and how crucial he is as God ignores him and how Cas will save the day" - is all coming true. I mean. This episode he picked up a book from the floor. FROM THE FLOOR! As crucial as it gets. He opened boxes. Boxes. Plural. Goosebumps yet? Finally he found the Key. The key. And brothers crying and saying it will always be "you and me" while Cas and Jack sit on the floor and applaud the brothers God Complex. No? :-)
See anon, you get it! Boxes, plural, was the thing that clinched Cas plot importance today. Here’s some other things canon positive destiel metas have said over the years - The less Cas has to do now, the more it builds anticipation for his last moments! The less Cas is on screen, the more important he is! When Cas is never mentioned by Sam and Dean, we are supposed to wonder why and that just enhances Cas importance! We don’t want Cas in filler episodes, we want him in plotty episodes!
And here we are now, three episodes before the series finale and Cas is just a sexy lamp, delivering emotional support and opening boxes. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that Sam was unconscious when the talk about the Key to Death library happened? So the point was that Cas would share this information with Sam, but apparently even that was too much for Cas to handle.
Because surely that’s how you get viewers rooting for a character, by giving him a wall to prop and supporting characters who actually do plotty thing, like Sam and Jack. And keeping him away from Dean to actually discuss Dean’s feelings and anger. so married And making him watch Dean and Sam brotherly yelling after hearing that Dean would sacrifice the whole world for his personal freedom.
Jokes aside, this episode raised some serious moral questions and I’m not sure if I like how SPN is handling them. The show is famous for it’s protagonist morality but there’s gotta be a line which if crossed, turns your heroes into villains.
And last bit, to all folks who say that Cas doing nothing now is a very clever way to hype his importance in 15x18 or even finale, remember that metas said the same thing about s10 and s13 finales, remember how relevant Cas was there. TPTB are yanking destiel shippers super hard this season. I have seen this all before, and I didn’t like the ending.
#anons#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#spn spoilers#cas meta#s15#15x17#final countdown#spn salt mine#spn meta#///#to all my new followers - hi guys!#i tag pretty much everything#so check the tags for older posts#if interested
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(1/2)I'm the anon who said I don't agree that wincest is canon. Sorry I certainly wasn't trying to start a discussion if you weren't up for it. I think it's possible our difference in opinion is down to culture. I'm from an Asian country where such gestures between siblings would be perceived differently (though this level of intimacy certainly toes the line). I guess I shouldn't project on what is an American show and vastly different from my own culture.
(2/2)And don't worry about making me uncomfortable; I've no siblings and intimate relationships like this just don't exist in my own life. It's also possible I'm trying to convince myself wincest is not a thing because I so desperately wanted Destiel; I relate with Cas so much and as someone on grey-ace spectrum I really wanted to see someone like him end up happy. :( I already have given up on there ever being explicit ace spectrum representation so this is as close as I could get.
Hello fellow fan from an Asian country! I’m European expat living in Japan, so yes, I think we come at this scene from different angles. I already posted another ask about THAT scene and lol, I also lost 2 followers since your first ask, so I don’t know if it was because of wincest discussion or not. But here’s a thing I do know. We must talk about it. I think a lot of destiel fans tried really hard to ignore wincest subtext and avoided talking about it, partly because we didn’t want to deal with anon hate. I mean, so many of us at least once have received a message along the lines “destiel will never be canon because the show is about the brothers”. Which is so funny, because it implies that romantic destiel is the same type of relationship as brotherly love, and Dean just happens to love Sammy more. But since the CW has greenlit the SPN finale that goes out of it’s way to establish incestuous vibes in Sam and Dean brotherly bond at the expense of romantic destiel, we have to give them their dues. Like I said in my previous answer, it is not only Dean’s death scene, it is the whole episode designed to show that without each other the brothers are miserable. So kudos to the CW for embracing incest. I guess those GoT laurels are so tempting.
In your first ask you said I don’t see anything wrong in choosing familial love over romantic love (which I believe for Dean is directed at Cas if anyone at all).
and I didn’t know how to tackle it then, but I think I have gathered my thoughts now. So, in Western literature/ media choosing your romantic partner over the wishes of your family is usually portrayed as a peak romance, while following the wishes of your family is a path to heartbreak (mmmm, Persuasion). There are different takes on it, but if the romance is central to the story, this is the usual pattern. And on SPN that is the choice Cas had to face in s10. Cas gave up his angel army and chose Dean. As a destiel shipper, from this point forward I expected no less from Dean and the show seemed to move towards breaking the toxic codependency between the brothers. Thing is, for Dean, familial love is not tied to his big family that raised and supported him, Dean’s familial bond is with only one person, Sam. His younger brother he practically raised by himself. So, while there are stories where choosing familial bond over romantic one is a prudent thing to do, especially if the love interest is a scoundrel, it is almost never about choosing your only able bodied, adult sibling over your lover. In the movie Love, Actually, one of the stories is about a woman breaking up with her lover in order to be a caretaker to her disabled sibling. Her choice hurts her lover just as much as her. It is not a happy story. This is why I can’t see Dean choosing Sam as an expression of familial love. They both are able bodied adults, they need more people in their lives, romantic and platonic partners, If they chose each other, it is toxic codependency and incest. The CW is just trying to be coy about it. I mean, they could have done it platonically but for some reason they chose to crank up incest vibes.
Unfortunately it also meant destroying Cas and his chance at happiness. Cas confession is a beautiful speech theoretically, and I agree with it’s main message about speaking your truth and love, but since it turned to be his last appearance on the show, it is burry your gays trope at its ugliest. SPN finale really took a wrecking ball at all its main themes. And we must live in with a knowledge that GA didn’t even notice it.
#anons#flyingcatstiel has thoughts#destiel fandom and queer fans were taken for the ride#they baited us and milked us and here we are now#queerbaiting#s15#15x20#rancid nuts#nonnie thank you for sending these asks!#i hope I didn't scare you away#you gave me perfect chance to rant about these topics
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