I watched How We Were Before!
Turns out, I'd read the synopsis previously on Wikipedia-- but that made me invested instead of disinterested.
Interesting movie-- It's not a romance so much as a showcase of the faults of romanticization. imo, Hubbell and Katie weren't meant to be but were making it work. And interesting that Hubbell tried to make choices-- the first girl, writing, etc.-- but ended up on paths further away from the life he would choose himself (finishing the book, Katie, fatherhood, etc.)
Some back and forth thoughts were put out there about Katie's idealism and it destroying the relationship; but that's not the takeaway I had, at all. Her perspective and his were both valuable, both real, both respectable; but clashed with each other. Her pursuits and passions disturbed him; his happiness was found a different route. And his lack of passion or humorous POV on matters that were of serious importance to her nettled, hurt, and wounded Katie.
Some people just don't work. Some people are drawn to each other but aren't meant to be. Or they can love and respect and be on fire for so many aspects about a person but not have that passion or love returned, at least in equal measure.
And, in the end, I think it's their daughter that suffers. Her mother pushed back on her father's distancing and disinterest and even (at times) disgust, wanting him despite; and her father let himself be led from one mess to another, none of them satisfactory to him because he hadn't fully accepted and reconciled parts of himself. Thus, little Rachel was born and grew up and lived without her father in her life.
Both had fantastic speeches, too-- wisdom to share with each other. Perspectives and chemistry isn't the only thing to keep a relationship afloat.
Also, I find it interesting if you turn the conceit of the movie on its head a bit: if first girl were the main character, she'd have married the friend of a man who she loved and who loved her; and there'd be bittersweet music every step of the way she takes. That's what I like about the movie, I think: it shows the effects of bad choices and poor decisions, with lots of backstory hinted at but not fully explored. I'm really starting to like Sydney Pollack movies.
The only thing I don't respect is that Hubbell didn't raise his daughter, even if being a father didn't fit into the life he wanted. He might not have been the best father, but a phone call every once in a while would have been better than nothing. (But, again, those characters would have made those choices.)
Very thought provoking! :DDD
Ahhh, glad you watched it! I agree they weren't to be. The only reason they were is because their feelings for each other were so intense and I see it more like, rather than making it work, they were trying to make it work because of the love that was there between them. That never left. The last scene is proof of that.
Ultimatively, they're too fundamentally different. One thing that always gets me is how Katie is trying to fit herself into Hubbel's world. She tries to be that person who gets along with his friends but in the end, she is who she is, and she's done trying to pretend - no matter how much she loves Hubbell.
I'm not sure Hubbell ever really makes a choice. It's like he wrote in his short story "everything came too easily to him". He always follows the path of least resistance. That's why they break up. Katie is done trying to be who she isn't and he is never going to change.
Yeah, I agree. Her idealism didn't destroy the relationships. They were just too different. That doesn't mean either of them was wrong for wanting and doing what they did.
I don't their their daughter suffers. Katie marries someone else who I'm sure is a wonderful father. If they had stayed together, both would have been miserable.
Hubbell wouldn't have had his career because of his association with Katie. Barbra Streisand commented on that once and said she hates how much it looks like they broke up because of him sleeping with another woman. When in reality it was really the political climate with Katie having been a communist and Hubbell trying to make it in Hollywood. And of course their clashing personalities.
I think Hubbell would have loved to be a father. It had nothing to do with that. There was just no way for them to be in each other's lives anymore. That's why he says he can't come visit. They can either be strangers or lovers; there's no in-between for them. That makes it so bittersweet for me.
And I really like Sydney Pollack movies too! He did so many with Robert Redford 😁
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Imagine the contempt of some of these CLEARLY sheltered "leftists" have for: poor families, single mothers, children, immigrants, dreamers, refugees, women in general at this point, people with elderly dependents, long term care, etc!! All they do is complain abt biden not personally visiting their house and giving them 1mil in cash........do they not remember the literal cages full of children?? When trump betrayed our kurdish allies??? When he killed soleimani and almost started wwiii? When he put hundreds of thousands of haitians in immediate jeopardy by revoking their status? INSTALLING A SUPREME COURT that will happily gut any remaining shreds of civil rights and protections??? I feel like i should only have to remind ppl abt the cages of children separated from their parents, sleeping under TARPS for gods sake, while the trump admin's attorneys argued that they didnt need basic hygiene items like toothbrushes. WHERE WERE ALL OF YOU FUCKS THEN?!?!? WHERE WERE YOU?!? My org spent 2 years bringing families back together. How dare these ppl forget what trump did and will do again if he has the chance, just because biden is *checks notes* too old to play on tv
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What are some ideas you have floating around that you don't have any plans on writing but like to entertain as a thought?
Many of them, in fact! Though they sort of vanish from my memory if I don't make a record of them, here's a few ones I jotted down when they came to mind.
For a domestic one: Bill thought he'd hate a lot of being married! Even though he loves Dipper, he thought he'd rebel against the chains of domesticity - and in some ways he still does - but one major benefit he's found is not having to be 'on' all the time.
No need to be perfectly performing all the time! No shoving around for social influence, no intimidation, or clever tricks. No commanding attention or taking up the room. Hell, there's surprisingly little upkeep! Bill can undo his tie and pick his nose and bitch about his day to someone who isn't bending over backwards to agree with him on everything. Someone who doesn't give him a weird look and sneer if he, god forbid, actually wants to sit down, read a book, drop the grin for an hour or two.
The concept in question is Bill's very first moment of great surprise. That when he isn't being the most charming, terrifying, and exciting guy in the universe, and just chilling out for like, five minutes, Dipper comes over and snuggles up to him on the couch, or wraps his arms around his shoulders and kisses the top of his head. And when Bill asks 'what was that for?', Dipper shrugs and goes 'eh, just felt like it'. It's both baffling and extremely compelling.
A short where Reincarnated Dip is Definitely Sure he's Not Gay!!! Especially not for this Hot Demon Man who is getting so close and touchy with him with his big smile and horrible wiles. Yep. Just keeping an eye on him to make sure he's not up to something Nefarious ™.
A discussion between Dipper and Bill where Dipper insists that Bill should understand this, or not do that, because, like. Y'know, Bill's a guy! There are guy things! Making Bill stare at Dipper like he's an idiot. He proceeds to informs Dipper how that's stupid for multiple reasons! First, that Bill's Not Human to begin with, his gender can't be put into a little box! And frankly, he never filled out the paperwork for his original one, come to think of it. Sure, he/him's fine, but c'mon, sapling, thinking of the whole shebang like a binary is dumb as hell. Now Dipper has to do some mental readjustment re: his own issues with masculinity/gender.
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One thing I think is interesting/useful to note about the Rose Red book is that it is a book that was published in the OUATIS galaxy a little under ten years after the war, and that it has an in-story author— and, crucially, that author is not necessarily an entirely reliable narrator.
More rambling about this under the cut
The author, Althea, is a normcivilian with an unusual amount of sympathy for the now-decommissioned Rose Reds. This is not a popular position, and between:
A) her rhetorical goal of changing the minds of people actively against the Rose Reds being allowed to survive
B) the constraints of mainstream publishers, who are under social/political pressure to not threaten the new government, requiring her to be both neutral and not too challenging,
C) her own corresponding bias in believing that neutrality is both possible and desirable,
and D) her limited viewpoint as a normcivilian (not a Rose Red) from a privileged background,
There are quite a lot of places where events, people, and viewpoints are presented in ways that are somewhat misleading. Althea has a degree in journalism, but she does not live in an entirely free society, and both external forces and her own biases do color the narrative she presents throughout the book.
In short, she’s the equivalent of a left-leaning ally to a marginalized group who’s a bit more centrist than one might hope and is presenting herself as even more centrist in order to be published at all through mainstream channels and taken seriously by people who are biased against her cause.
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Fun facts about crown prince rudolf 🥰💖
Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria was this super tragic figure whose super tragic life was always tragic and very sad. Also he was an irredeemably evil sexist jerkface and if you like him you're a pick me girl who wants WOMEN TO DIE,, anyway here are some fun facts about him!
He died in 1889 from suicide :( Or he may have been murdered by French agents sent by his friend Clemenceau,, listen I know they were friends who were aligned politically, but Empress Zita said this ~40 years after Rudolf's death, and because she's distantly related to him through marriage it must 100% be true!
He shot himself in the mouth, I don't know why all of these adaptations change it to be the temple lol
He infected his wife with syphilis >:o
According to his writings (mostly Eine Orientreise where he frequently admires the fresh manliness of his Arab hunting companions) he was heteroromantic polysexual <3 representation
He used to keep this creepy sex register where he used different colors of pens to mark what kind of woman he slept with (virgin, of noble birth, etc...). No trust me bro it's legit even though nobody has ever presented proof of this register existing anywhere or even a credible primary source citation to point to someone contemporary describing it
During his travels in Egypt and Palestine Rudolf acquired many cultural and historical artifacts for museums in Vienna as well as for his personal collections<3 Explorer king. Wait what do you mean imperialism, graverobbing and arson?? Noo I wouldn't describe it as such haha...
He was really sexist and that's not ok tbh :/ How can anyone be interested in him when he was horrible to women :( I mean it's kinda hard to find 19th century european men who would not have been and a lot of our still-revered statesmen had comparable attitudes that people let slide, but actually when it's someone that was also mentally ill in a Scary Violent Way it's ok to center his negative traits and ignore everything else about him haha. Also women are only allowed to enjoy researching and discussing historical figures who are unproblematic and good representation<3 ALSO women are not allowed to make arguments about historical figures being interesting or sympathetic based on their political views/positions if those figures were awful people in their personal lives, it's like the rules of feminism or something! ~~
He was involved in this crazy conspiracy to crown himself as king of Hungary. Also he was really hyped about hungarian nationalism and independence and totally wasn't an imperialist first and foremost who would've seen the ideology as ultimately destructive regardless of any personal fondness for Hungary
The italian anarchist Luigi Lucheni actually really wanted to fuck him and this was a motivating factor for Lucheni's assassination of empress Elisabeth in 1898 😳
[THIS POST IS SATIRE (inspired by) and the "facts" are purposeful misinformation kfkfkfkf. If anyone can provide actual proof of that sex register thing that does NOT come from greg king and penny wilson (derogatory) I will graciously not duel them in the hofburg parking lot xD I hate that this disclaimer needs to be included because it ruins the joke, but a lot of these are such common takes that I can't not]
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Thank you thank you thank you so much for sharing your writing with us - I really have enjoyed every word!! Seeing the edges of Ice and Mav's wedding was lovely, but I wasn't expecting them to have invited VIPER of all people. Can I grab a full guest list of the people who you think they would have wanted there to bear witness to the legal proof of their relationship?
they invited viper for the meta reason of “in my fanfiction he basically got ice & mav together & then i kinda forgot about him as a character when he was their friend & coworker at miramar for over a decade oops” & also i think age gaps closing as you get older is super interesting… viper not being mav’s dad figure anymore cause they’re both old as shit… they’re just pals now… drinking buddies… the earth is healing…
i am still secondhand embarrassed for ice & mav actually having a wedding, seems super out of character, i only made them invite their friends because it was the climax of the friendship arc in Slider but imo it otherwise doesn’t make any sense, the wedding would’ve been actually excruciating to write in any detail
but here’s an off the cuff wedding invite list sure
slider, sarah (😏), Cougar, sundown, hondo, rooster, hangman, Hollywood, wolfman, chipper, [it’s been so long since I’ve seen top gun i forgor the other pilots’ call signs so add your favorite background character here], viper, rear admiral chester cain for the meme (he RSVPs no), extremely select members of ice’s staff (COS e.g.), a couple of mav’s friends if he has any (unlikely)… Penny? no. she’s an ex. it would be weird.
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